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RE: [HoustonPeakOil] Re: [hreg] What is holding back American car companies?

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  • Israel Palacios
    There is an unofficial electronic archive for KPFT or at least there used to be. It can be found by googling KPFT. _____ From: hreg@yahoogroups.com
    Message 1 of 23 , Aug 2, 2006
    • 0 Attachment

      There is an unofficial electronic archive for KPFT or at least there used to be.  It can be found by googling KPFT.

       


      From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Randy Scott
      Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 3:11 PM
      To: Ariel Thomann; hreg@yahoogroups.com
      Cc: bsyed@...; houstonpeakoil@...
      Subject: Re: [HoustonPeakOil] Re: [hreg] What is holding back American car companies?

       

      I didn't hear the program, but maybe you're thinking of the Sterling engine?

      Randy

      --- Ariel Thomann <ajthomann@pol. net> wrote:

      > I think it was yesterday afternoon that I heard something on the radio
      that I can't find
      > now in the archives of KPFT or KUHF. I was driving, and failed to write
      down the key
      > family surname. It was a lengthy discussion of a type of engine devised by
      someone from
      > a long family line of tinkerers. I understood it could be either diesel or
      gasoline,
      > compatible with hybrid systems, and supposedly far more efficient and
      cheaper than
      > anything out there today. But, of course, suppressed by the big players.
      Did anybody
      > else catch that program?
      >
      > Ariel
      >

      Petition to challenge Dwayne Bohac to give back dirty money
      http://www.thepetit ionsite.com/ takeaction/ 382026427

      Mark McDavid for Congress - Tx Dist 138
      http://www.votemcda vid.com/

      http://randyscott. fortunecity. com/blog/

    • Randy Scott
      I didn t hear the program, but maybe you re thinking of the Sterling engine? Randy ... Petition to challenge Dwayne Bohac to give back dirty money
      Message 2 of 23 , Aug 2, 2006
      • 0 Attachment
        I didn't hear the program, but maybe you're thinking of the Sterling engine?

        Randy



        --- Ariel Thomann <ajthomann@...> wrote:

        > I think it was yesterday afternoon that I heard something on the radio that I can't find
        > now in the archives of KPFT or KUHF. I was driving, and failed to write down the key
        > family surname. It was a lengthy discussion of a type of engine devised by someone from
        > a long family line of tinkerers. I understood it could be either diesel or gasoline,
        > compatible with hybrid systems, and supposedly far more efficient and cheaper than
        > anything out there today. But, of course, suppressed by the big players. Did anybody
        > else catch that program?
        >
        > Ariel
        >

        Petition to challenge Dwayne Bohac to give back dirty money
        http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/382026427

        Mark McDavid for Congress - Tx Dist 138
        http://www.votemcdavid.com/

        http://randyscott.fortunecity.com/blog/
      • Julie Hendricks
        I heard part of an extensive piece about Nikola Tesla, a very prolific inventor of the 19th century, yesterday on KPFT around noon time. I did a quick web
        Message 3 of 23 , Aug 2, 2006
        • 0 Attachment

          I heard part of an extensive piece about Nikola Tesla, a very prolific inventor of the 19th century, yesterday on KPFT around noon time.  I did a quick web search and found the following about an engine design of his.  Maybe this is what you are looking for:

           

          http://www.tfcbooks.com/articles/tdt7.htm

           

          Julie Hendricks, AIA LEED AP

          Kirksey
          6909 Portwest Drive
          Houston Texas 77024
          v 713 426 7566
          f 713 726 7066

          julieh@...
          www.kirksey.com

           


          From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ariel Thomann
          Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 2:59 PM
          To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
          Cc: bsyed@...; houstonpeakoil@...
          Subject: Re: [hreg]

           

          I think it was yesterday afternoon that I heard something on the radio that I can't find
          now in the archives of KPFT or KUHF. I was driving, and failed to write down the key
          family surname. It was a lengthy discussion of a type of engine devised by someone from
          a long family line of tinkerers. I understood it could be either diesel or gasoline,
          compatible with hybrid systems, and supposedly far more efficient and cheaper than
          anything out there today. But, of course, suppressed by the big players. Did anybody
          else catch that program?

          Ariel
          - We are all Human beings here together. We have to help one another, since otherwise
          there is NO ONE who will help.
          - All countries need a NO REGRETS strategic energy policy. Think ahead 7 generations.
          ------------ --------- --------- ------

          > It's the outsourcing to get rid of unions, benefits, health insurance and
          pensions,
          > which the corporations don't have to worry, and money saved goes to the
          top of the
          > Pyramid's exorbitant salaries and perks. They got the bad taste of GREED,
          which has
          > desensitized them to think about the interests of their customers. There
          are a lot of
          > neat technologies which can be used in todays cars to make them more
          reliable, but it
          > does suit the interest of the TOP guys at the APEX.
          >
          > Bashir A. Syed
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: Ariel Thomann
          > To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
          > Cc: tigger@...
          > Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 12:54 PM
          > Subject: Re: [hreg] What is holding back American car companies?
          >
          >
          > Just think, during WW-II the aircraft companies could design, test, tool
          up, and
          > mass produce fighter planes sometimes in a matter of months...
          >
          > Ariel
          ------------ --------- --------- ------
          >
          > > 2:40pm, blpasemann wrote:
          > >
          > >> Interesting article today, that
          w:st="on">Toyota is now the #2 automaker. I feel there is
          > an underlying reason car dealers are willing to keep losing money and
          marketshare
          > to keep promoting gas gusseling vehicles, while Honda and
          w:st="on">Toyota and kicking
          > their butt with hybrids and fuel economy. Don't they see this?? I feel the
          oil
          > companies, government and car makers are all in this together, but while
          oil
          > companies are making record profits, car dealers are losing lots of money
          and may
          > not recover. I want to know what other think and if they have some reasons
          why
          > this is happening. I personally have driven fords most of my life, but I
          will NOT
          > by a Ford again or an American car. I really want to a prius or what I
          will
          > probably do is build an electric car or biodiesel. Just wanted to put this
          out
          > there and see what you guys think.
          > >>
          > >
          > > I don't know for sure, but I would guess that part of what you (we)
          are seeing is
          > due to the lag from concept to market that auto makers go through. It
          typically
          > takes several years for a manufacturer to design and implement something
          new. I
          > don't know how long, but I'd guess between 3-5 years, depending on how
          much is new
          > vs how much has already been designed. (Consider an all-new vehicle vs a
          new body
          > on an existing chassis.) Think about the Dodge Magnum, a big, gas-guzzling
          beast
          > available with a 300HP (or so) engine. It came out about a year or so ago.
          It was
          > probably in the works before W. became President.
          > >
          > > Honda and Toyota
          have traditionally made smaller vehicles, so were probably in a
          > much better position from the start to offer more fuel-efficient cars and
          take
          > advantage of today's higher gas prices.
          > >
          > > Paul
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Yahoo! Groups Links

        • Jim & Janet
          You heard it on Marketplace on Tuesday. http://marketplace.publicradio.org/shows/2006/08/01/PM200608015.html Marketplace is an excellent program for Public
          Message 4 of 23 , Aug 2, 2006
          • 0 Attachment
            Marketplace is an excellent program for Public Radio quality business news.
            Often the much overlooked business section of your local mewspaper is a very good source of news that does not make it to the local, state or world sections. Let me suggest that everyone start paying closer attention to "business" news.
            Jim Duncan
             
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 2:58 PM
            Subject: Re: [hreg] What is holding back American car companies?

            I think it was yesterday afternoon that I heard something on the radio that I can't find
            now in the archives of KPFT or KUHF. I was driving, and failed to write down the key
            family surname. It was a lengthy discussion of a type of engine devised by someone from
            a long family line of tinkerers. I understood it could be either diesel or gasoline,
            compatible with hybrid systems, and supposedly far more efficient and cheaper than
            anything out there today. But, of course, suppressed by the big players. Did anybody
            else catch that program?

            Ariel
            - We are all Human beings here together. We have to help one another, since otherwise
            there is NO ONE who will help.
            - All countries need a NO REGRETS strategic energy policy. Think ahead 7 generations.
            ------------ --------- --------- ------

            > It's the outsourcing to get rid of unions, benefits, health insurance and pensions,
            > which the corporations don't have to worry, and money saved goes to the top of the
            > Pyramid's exorbitant salaries and perks. They got the bad taste of GREED, which has
            > desensitized them to think about the interests of their customers. There are a lot of
            > neat technologies which can be used in todays cars to make them more reliable, but it
            > does suit the interest of the TOP guys at the APEX.
            >
            > Bashir A. Syed
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: Ariel Thomann
            > To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
            > Cc: tigger@...
            > Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 12:54 PM
            > Subject: Re: [hreg] What is holding back American car companies?
            >
            >
            > Just think, during WW-II the aircraft companies could design, test, tool up, and
            > mass produce fighter planes sometimes in a matter of months...
            >
            > Ariel
            ------------ --------- --------- ------
            >
            > > 2:40pm, blpasemann wrote:
            > >
            > >> Interesting article today, that Toyota is now the #2 automaker. I feel there is
            > an underlying reason car dealers are willing to keep losing money and marketshare
            > to keep promoting gas gusseling vehicles, while Honda and Toyota and kicking
            > their butt with hybrids and fuel economy. Don't they see this?? I feel the oil
            > companies, government and car makers are all in this together, but while oil
            > companies are making record profits, car dealers are losing lots of money and may
            > not recover. I want to know what other think and if they have some reasons why
            > this is happening. I personally have driven fords most of my life, but I will NOT
            > by a Ford again or an American car. I really want to a prius or what I will
            > probably do is build an electric car or biodiesel. Just wanted to put this out
            > there and see what you guys think.
            > >>
            > >
            > > I don't know for sure, but I would guess that part of what you (we) are seeing is
            > due to the lag from concept to market that auto makers go through. It typically
            > takes several years for a manufacturer to design and implement something new. I
            > don't know how long, but I'd guess between 3-5 years, depending on how much is new
            > vs how much has already been designed. (Consider an all-new vehicle vs a new body
            > on an existing chassis.) Think about the Dodge Magnum, a big, gas-guzzling beast
            > available with a 300HP (or so) engine. It came out about a year or so ago. It was
            > probably in the works before W. became President.
            > >
            > > Honda and Toyota have traditionally made smaller vehicles, so were probably in a
            > much better position from the start to offer more fuel-efficient cars and take
            > advantage of today's higher gas prices.
            > >
            > > Paul
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Yahoo! Groups Links

          • Sean Kaylor
            The engine you are referring to is called a Scuderi split cycle engine designed by the late Carmelo Scuderi. About US auto makers. Isn t it ironic that CAFE
            Message 5 of 23 , Aug 2, 2006
            • 0 Attachment

              The engine you are referring to is called a Scuderi split cycle engine designed by the late Carmelo Scuderi.

              About US auto makers. Isn't it ironic that CAFE standards haven't been raised since the mid-1980's? The US is the only developed nation to actually have an average reduction in automobile fuel efficiency in the past ten years. Why aren't CAFE standards raised? While I would shy away from pointing fingers directly- there is a lot of blame centered around the United Auto Workers and the mid-west politicians. The UAW claimes that raising CAFE standards will jepordize passenger safety because to obtain a more fuel efficient vehicle major weight reductions will have to take place. Also, the UAW and domestic car manufacturing firms fear that raising fuel efficiency standards might give foreign competitors a strategic advantage because, just as was mentioned earlier in this post, Hond and Toyota have been successfully designing, manufacturing, and selling more efficient vehicles for several decades now.

              It is rather ironic that Ford and GM are losing money hand over fist not simply because they are losing market share in the compact/sub-compact categories, but mainly because their high profit margin SUV and truck categories are having to compete against Toyota and Honda SUV and truck models. Looks like domestic auto production is declining on all fronts which is unfortunate.

              Sean 

               


              From: "Jim & Janet" <jhd1@...>
              Reply-To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
              To: <hreg@yahoogroups.com>
              Subject: Re: [hreg] What is holding back American car companies?
              Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 15:36:05 -0500

              Marketplace is an excellent program for Public Radio quality business news.
              Often the much overlooked business section of your local mewspaper is a very good source of news that does not make it to the local, state or world sections. Let me suggest that everyone start paying closer attention to "business" news.
              Jim Duncan
               
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 2:58 PM
              Subject: Re: [hreg] What is holding back American car companies?

              I think it was yesterday afternoon that I heard something on the radio that I can't find
              now in the archives of KPFT or KUHF. I was driving, and failed to write down the key
              family surname. It was a lengthy discussion of a type of engine devised by someone from
              a long family line of tinkerers. I understood it could be either diesel or gasoline,
              compatible with hybrid systems, and supposedly far more efficient and cheaper than
              anything out there today. But, of course, suppressed by the big players. Did anybody
              else catch that program?

              Ariel
              - We are all Human beings here together. We have to help one another, since otherwise
              there is NO ONE who will help.
              - All countries need a NO REGRETS strategic energy policy. Think ahead 7 generations.
              ------------ --------- --------- ------

              > It's the outsourcing to get rid of unions, benefits, health insurance and pensions,
              > which the corporations don't have to worry, and money saved goes to the top of the
              > Pyramid's exorbitant salaries and perks. They got the bad taste of GREED, which has
              > desensitized them to think about the interests of their customers. There are a lot of
              > neat technologies which can be used in todays cars to make them more reliable, but it
              > does suit the interest of the TOP guys at the APEX.
              >
              > Bashir A. Syed
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: Ariel Thomann
              > To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
              > Cc: tigger@...
              > Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 12:54 PM
              > Subject: Re: [hreg] What is holding back American car companies?
              >
              >
              > Just think, during WW-II the aircraft companies could design, test, tool up, and
              > mass produce fighter planes sometimes in a matter of months...
              >
              > Ariel
              ------------ --------- --------- ------
              >
              > > 2:40pm, blpasemann wrote:
              > >
              > >> Interesting article today, that Toyota is now the #2 automaker. I feel there is
              > an underlying reason car dealers are willing to keep losing money and marketshare
              > to keep promoting gas gusseling vehicles, while Honda and Toyota and kicking
              > their butt with hybrids and fuel economy. Don't they see this?? I feel the oil
              > companies, government and car makers are all in this together, but while oil
              > companies are making record profits, car dealers are losing lots of money and may
              > not recover. I want to know what other think and if they have some reasons why
              > this is happening. I personally have driven fords most of my life, but I will NOT
              > by a Ford again or an American car. I really want to a prius or what I will
              > probably do is build an electric car or biodiesel. Just wanted to put this out
              > there and see what you guys think.
              > >>
              > >
              > > I don't know for sure, but I would guess that part of what you (we) are seeing is
              > due to the lag from concept to market that auto makers go through. It typically
              > takes several years for a manufacturer to design and implement something new. I
              > don't know how long, but I'd guess between 3-5 years, depending on how much is new
              > vs how much has already been designed. (Consider an all-new vehicle vs a new body
              > on an existing chassis.) Think about the Dodge Magnum, a big, gas-guzzling beast
              > available with a 300HP (or so) engine. It came out about a year or so ago. It was
              > probably in the works before W. became President.
              > >
              > > Honda and Toyota have traditionally made smaller vehicles, so were probably in a
              > much better position from the start to offer more fuel-efficient cars and take
              > advantage of today's higher gas prices.
              > >
              > > Paul
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Yahoo! Groups Links


            • Laura
              I ve cancelled my subscription to this membership, yet I still get emails. Can you please take me off the list. Thanks. Laura La Rue ... From:
              Message 6 of 23 , Aug 2, 2006
              • 0 Attachment

                I’ve cancelled my subscription to this membership, yet I still get emails. Can you please take me off the list.


                Thanks.

                 

                Laura La Rue

                -----Original Message-----
                From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sean Kaylor
                Sent:
                Wednesday, August 02, 2006 3:11 PM
                To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [hreg] What is holding back American car companies?

                 

                The engine you are referring to is called a Scuderi split cycle engine designed by the late Carmelo Scuderi.

                About US auto makers. Isn't it ironic that CAFE standards haven't been raised since the mid-1980's? The US is the only developed nation to actually have an average reduction in automobile fuel efficiency in the past ten years. Why aren't CAFE standards raised? While I would shy away from pointing fingers directly- there is a lot of blame centered around the United Auto Workers and the mid-west politicians. The UAW claimes that raising CAFE standards will jepordize passenger safety because to obtain a more fuel efficient vehicle major weight reductions will have to take place. Also, the UAW and domestic car manufacturing firms fear that raising fuel efficiency standards might give foreign competitors a strategic advantage because, just as was mentioned earlier in this post, Hond and Toyota have been successfully designing, manufacturing, and selling more efficient vehicles for several decades now.

                It is rather ironic that Ford and GM are losing money hand over fist not simply because they are losing market share in the compact/sub- compact categories, but mainly because their high profit margin SUV and truck categories are having to compete against Toyota and Honda SUV and truck models. Looks like domestic auto production is declining on all fronts which is unfortunate.

                Sean 

                 


                From: "Jim & Janet" <jhd1@earthlink. net>
                Reply-To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
                To: <hreg@yahoogroups. com>
                Subject: Re: [hreg] What is holding back American car companies?
                Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 15:36:05 -0500

                Marketplace is an excellent program for Public Radio quality business news.

                Often the much overlooked business section of your local mewspaper is a very good source of news that does not make it to the local, state or world sections. Let me suggest that everyone start paying closer attention to "business" news.

                Jim Duncan

                 

                ----- Original Message -----

                Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 2:58 PM

                Subject: Re: [hreg] What is holding back American car companies?

                 

                I think it was yesterday afternoon that I heard something on the radio that I can't find
                now in the archives of KPFT or KUHF. I was driving, and failed to write down the key
                family surname. It was a lengthy discussion of a type of engine devised by someone from
                a long family line of tinkerers. I understood it could be either diesel or gasoline,
                compatible with hybrid systems, and supposedly far more efficient and cheaper than
                anything out there today. But, of course, suppressed by the big players. Did anybody
                else catch that program?

                Ariel
                - We are all Human beings here together. We have to help one another, since otherwise
                there is NO ONE who will help.
                - All countries need a NO REGRETS strategic energy policy. Think ahead 7 generations.
                ------------ --------- --------- ------

                > It's the outsourcing to get rid of unions, benefits, health insurance and pensions,
                > which the corporations don't have to worry, and money saved goes to the top of the
                > Pyramid's exorbitant salaries and perks. They got the bad taste of GREED, which has
                > desensitized them to think about the interests of their customers. There are a lot of
                > neat technologies which can be used in todays cars to make them more reliable, but it
                > does suit the interest of the TOP guys at the APEX.
                >
                > Bashir A. Syed
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: Ariel Thomann
                > To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
                > Cc: tigger@...
                > Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 12:54 PM
                > Subject: Re: [hreg] What is holding back American car companies?
                >
                >
                > Just think, during WW-II the aircraft companies could design, test, tool up, and
                > mass produce fighter planes sometimes in a matter of months...
                >
                > Ariel
                ------------ --------- --------- ------
                >
                > > 2:40pm, blpasemann wrote:
                > >
                > >> Interesting article today, that Toyota is now the #2 automaker. I feel there is
                > an underlying reason car dealers are willing to keep losing money and marketshare
                > to keep promoting gas gusseling vehicles, while Honda and Toyota and kicking
                > their butt with hybrids and fuel economy. Don't they see this?? I feel the oil
                > companies, government and car makers are all in this together, but while oil
                > companies are making record profits, car dealers are losing lots of money and may
                > not recover. I want to know what other think and if they have some reasons why
                > this is happening. I personally have driven fords most of my life, but I will NOT
                > by a Ford again or an American car. I really want to a prius or what I will
                > probably do is build an electric car or biodiesel. Just wanted to put this out
                > there and see what you guys think.
                > >>
                > >
                > > I don't know for sure, but I would guess that part of what you (we) are seeing is
                > due to the lag from concept to market that auto makers go through. It typically
                > takes several years for a manufacturer to design and implement something new. I
                > don't know how long, but I'd guess between 3-5 years, depending on how much is new
                > vs how much has already been designed. (Consider an all-new vehicle vs a new body
                > on an existing chassis.) Think about the Dodge Magnum, a big, gas-guzzling beast
                > available with a 300HP (or so) engine. It came out about a year or so ago. It was
                > probably in the works before W. became President.
                > >
                > > Honda and Toyota have traditionally made smaller vehicles, so were probably in a
                > much better position from the start to offer more fuel-efficient cars and take
                > advantage of today's higher gas prices.
                > >
                > > Paul
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Yahoo! Groups Links

                 

              • blpasemann
                Laura, at the very least you should be able to go into your yahoo/group settings and disable email messages from this group. At least the emails will stop.
                Message 7 of 23 , Aug 2, 2006
                • 0 Attachment
                  Laura,
                  at the very least you should be able to go into your yahoo/group
                  settings and disable email messages from this group. At least the
                  emails will stop.

                  --- In hreg@yahoogroups.com, "Laura" <laura@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I've cancelled my subscription to this membership, yet I still get
                  > emails. Can you please take me off the list.
                  >
                  >
                  > Thanks.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Laura La Rue
                  >
                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                  > Sean Kaylor
                  > Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 3:11 PM
                  > To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: Re: [hreg] What is holding back American car companies?
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > The engine you are referring to is called a Scuderi split cycle engine
                  > designed by the late Carmelo Scuderi.
                  >
                  > About US auto makers. Isn't it ironic that CAFE standards haven't been
                  > raised since the mid-1980's? The US is the only developed nation to
                  > actually have an average reduction in automobile fuel efficiency in the
                  > past ten years. Why aren't CAFE standards raised? While I would shy away
                  > from pointing fingers directly- there is a lot of blame centered around
                  > the United Auto Workers and the mid-west politicians. The UAW claimes
                  > that raising CAFE standards will jepordize passenger safety because to
                  > obtain a more fuel efficient vehicle major weight reductions will have
                  > to take place. Also, the UAW and domestic car manufacturing firms fear
                  > that raising fuel efficiency standards might give foreign competitors a
                  > strategic advantage because, just as was mentioned earlier in this post,
                  > Hond and Toyota have been successfully designing, manufacturing, and
                  > selling more efficient vehicles for several decades now.
                  >
                  > It is rather ironic that Ford and GM are losing money hand over fist not
                  > simply because they are losing market share in the compact/sub-compact
                  > categories, but mainly because their high profit margin SUV and truck
                  > categories are having to compete against Toyota and Honda SUV and truck
                  > models. Looks like domestic auto production is declining on all fronts
                  > which is unfortunate.
                  >
                  > Sean
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > _____
                  >
                  >
                  > From: "Jim & Janet" <jhd1@...>
                  > Reply-To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                  > To: <hreg@yahoogroups.com>
                  > Subject: Re: [hreg] What is holding back American car companies?
                  > Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 15:36:05 -0500
                  >
                  > You heard it on Marketplace on Tuesday. http://marketplace.
                  > <http://marketplace.publicradio.org/shows/2006/08/01/PM200608015.html>
                  > publicradio.org/shows/2006/08/01/PM200608015.html
                  >
                  > Marketplace is an excellent program for Public Radio quality business
                  > news.
                  >
                  > Often the much overlooked business section of your local mewspaper is a
                  > very good source of news that does not make it to the local, state or
                  > world sections. Let me suggest that everyone start paying closer
                  > attention to "business" news.
                  >
                  > Jim Duncan
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  >
                  > From: Ariel Thomann <mailto:ajthomann@...>
                  >
                  > To: hreg@yahoogroups. <mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com> com
                  >
                  > Cc: bsyed@worldnet. <mailto:bsyed@...> att.net ;
                  > houstonpeakoil@ <mailto:houstonpeakoil@...>
                  > lists.riseup.net
                  >
                  > Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 2:58 PM
                  >
                  > Subject: Re: [hreg] What is holding back American car companies?
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > I think it was yesterday afternoon that I heard something on the radio
                  > that I can't find
                  > now in the archives of KPFT or KUHF. I was driving, and failed to write
                  > down the key
                  > family surname. It was a lengthy discussion of a type of engine devised
                  > by someone from
                  > a long family line of tinkerers. I understood it could be either diesel
                  > or gasoline,
                  > compatible with hybrid systems, and supposedly far more efficient and
                  > cheaper than
                  > anything out there today. But, of course, suppressed by the big players.
                  > Did anybody
                  > else catch that program?
                  >
                  > Ariel
                  > - We are all Human beings here together. We have to help one another,
                  > since otherwise
                  > there is NO ONE who will help.
                  > - All countries need a NO REGRETS strategic energy policy. Think ahead 7
                  > generations.
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
                  > > It's the outsourcing to get rid of unions, benefits, health insurance
                  > and pensions,
                  > > which the corporations don't have to worry, and money saved goes to
                  > the top of the
                  > > Pyramid's exorbitant salaries and perks. They got the bad taste of
                  > GREED, which has
                  > > desensitized them to think about the interests of their customers.
                  > There are a lot of
                  > > neat technologies which can be used in todays cars to make them more
                  > reliable, but it
                  > > does suit the interest of the TOP guys at the APEX.
                  > >
                  > > Bashir A. Syed
                  > > ----- Original Message -----
                  > > From: Ariel Thomann
                  > > To: hreg@yahoogroups. <mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com> com
                  > > Cc: tigger@...
                  > > Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 12:54 PM
                  > > Subject: Re: [hreg] What is holding back American car companies?
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Just think, during WW-II the aircraft companies could design, test,
                  > tool up, and
                  > > mass produce fighter planes sometimes in a matter of months...
                  > >
                  > > Ariel
                  > ------------------------------------
                  > >
                  > > > 2:40pm, blpasemann wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > >> Interesting article today, that Toyota is now the #2 automaker. I
                  > feel there is
                  > > an underlying reason car dealers are willing to keep losing money and
                  > marketshare
                  > > to keep promoting gas gusseling vehicles, while Honda and Toyota and
                  > kicking
                  > > their butt with hybrids and fuel economy. Don't they see this?? I feel
                  > the oil
                  > > companies, government and car makers are all in this together, but
                  > while oil
                  > > companies are making record profits, car dealers are losing lots of
                  > money and may
                  > > not recover. I want to know what other think and if they have some
                  > reasons why
                  > > this is happening. I personally have driven fords most of my life, but
                  > I will NOT
                  > > by a Ford again or an American car. I really want to a prius or what I
                  > will
                  > > probably do is build an electric car or biodiesel. Just wanted to put
                  > this out
                  > > there and see what you guys think.
                  > > >>
                  > > >
                  > > > I don't know for sure, but I would guess that part of what you (we)
                  > are seeing is
                  > > due to the lag from concept to market that auto makers go through. It
                  > typically
                  > > takes several years for a manufacturer to design and implement
                  > something new. I
                  > > don't know how long, but I'd guess between 3-5 years, depending on how
                  > much is new
                  > > vs how much has already been designed. (Consider an all-new vehicle vs
                  > a new body
                  > > on an existing chassis.) Think about the Dodge Magnum, a big,
                  > gas-guzzling beast
                  > > available with a 300HP (or so) engine. It came out about a year or so
                  > ago. It was
                  > > probably in the works before W. became President.
                  > > >
                  > > > Honda and Toyota have traditionally made smaller vehicles, so were
                  > probably in a
                  > > much better position from the start to offer more fuel-efficient cars
                  > and take
                  > > advantage of today's higher gas prices.
                  > > >
                  > > > Paul
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                • Roxanne Boyer
                  Ok, now I know why GM stock is rated junk . Why does Bob Lutz think ethanol is the solution? Several studies and even my own have shown that if all the
                  Message 8 of 23 , Aug 2, 2006
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Ok, now I know why GM stock is rated "junk".
                    Why does Bob Lutz think ethanol is the solution?
                    Several studies and even my own have shown that if all the available land in the US grew biomass for ethanol, only 10% (modern tech) to 20% (future tech) of our gasoline could be replaced by ethanol. (Only 6% of diesel consumption could be replaced by biodiesel.)  Biomass fuel is hugely inefficient way to convert land into energy.  Lutz has not done his homework.
                     
                    I agree that it is difficult to put engine and electric trivetrains into the same car and make it economical.  Most families have two cars; why not have one for long distance (engine) and the other electric for short commutes.  It may not be for everyone, but, I bet there will be a profitable market.  I seems Bob Lutz has no vision for the future; he can only see what is now and thinks it will never change.  How do short sighted people like this get to be Vice Presidents?
                     
                     


                    blpasemann <blpasemann@...> wrote:
                    I have been reading a lot and I read about the car companies not
                    wanting to promote hybrids or electric cars. Here's an article from
                    the energy bulleting website. This kind of talk from GM will never
                    get me to buy one of their products. I read similar things from ford,
                    like when they are scaling back there hybrid production quantities
                    from earlier statements. I just don't think they want to do it and
                    are being paid by big oil.

                    GM article:
                    ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- -------
                    Lutz: GM building hybrids for good press
                    LeftLane News
                    General Motors Vice Chairman Bob Lutz said in an interview this week
                    that GM doubts the benefits of hybrids, but must build them to improve
                    its public image. "Hybrids are technologically of doubtful benefit,
                    and expensive, but necessary from a political and public relations
                    point of view," Lutz told Just-Auto. "Toyota has said, economically,
                    hybrids make no sense. The reduction in fuel [consumption] does not
                    pay for the technological content and cost of the vehicle so therefore
                    economically it remains fairly nonsensical, so that's the left-brain
                    analytical argument."

                    "The right brain is it's the popular thing to do, many people believe
                    that if we all drove hybrids the world would suddenly get cooler again
                    and then it's the patriotic thing to do because if you drive a hybrid
                    you will no longer be funding the Arab terrorists, and so forth."

                    "So, with all those beliefs out there, you have to do a hybrid for
                    public policy reasons."

                    "I don't care how much money you get out but when you've got two
                    drivetrains, the sophisticated electronics and a big lithium-ion
                    battery, you've got cost."

                    Lutz says diesels are also problematic. "The modern diesel is becoming
                    more and more expensive as we have to have to gear up to meet Euro 5,
                    which is very difficult."

                    "Let's not forget, a diesel engine is always going to be more
                    expensive than a conventional petrol engine, that's the laws of physics."

                    In March, Lutz said GM is most enthusiastic about ethanol. "We think
                    running the nation on E85 makes more sense than all the hybrids in the
                    world," he said.
                    (21 July 2006)
                    >
                    > I don't know for sure, but I would guess that part of what you (we) are
                    > seeing is due to the lag from concept to market that auto makers go
                    through.
                    > It typically takes several years for a manufacturer to design and
                    implement
                    > something new. I don't know how long, but I'd guess between 3-5 years,
                    > depending on how much is new vs how much has already been designed.
                    > (Consider an all-new vehicle vs a new body on an existing chassis.)
                    > Think about the Dodge Magnum, a big, gas-guzzling beast available
                    with a
                    > 300HP (or so) engine. It came out about a year or so ago. It was
                    probably in
                    > the works before W. became President.
                    >
                    > Honda and Toyota have traditionally made smaller vehicles, so were
                    probably
                    > in a much better position from the start to offer more
                    fuel-efficient cars
                    > and take advantage of today's higher gas prices.
                    >
                    > Paul
                    >


                  • Ariel Thomann
                    No, thanks. I heard the Tesla thing too. This other was about an American inventor in the mid- to late-20th century. Ariel - We are all Human beings here
                    Message 9 of 23 , Aug 2, 2006
                    • 0 Attachment
                      No, thanks. I heard the Tesla thing too. This other was about an American inventor in
                      the mid- to late-20th century.

                      Ariel
                      - We are all Human beings here together. We have to help one another, since otherwise
                      there is NO ONE who will help.
                      - All countries need a NO REGRETS strategic energy policy. Think ahead 7 generations.
                      ------------------------------------

                      > I heard part of an extensive piece about Nikola Tesla, a very prolific inventor of the
                      > 19th century, yesterday on KPFT around noon time. I did a quick web search and found
                      > the following about an engine design of his. Maybe this is what you are looking for:
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > http://www.tfcbooks.com/articles/tdt7.htm
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Julie Hendricks, AIA LEED AP
                      >
                      > Kirksey
                      > 6909 Portwest Drive
                      > Houston Texas 77024
                      > v 713 426 7566
                      > f 713 726 7066
                      >
                      > julieh@...
                      > www.kirksey.com
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ________________________________
                      >
                      > From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ariel Thomann
                      > Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 2:59 PM
                      > To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                      > Cc: bsyed@...; houstonpeakoil@...
                      > Subject: Re: [hreg]
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > I think it was yesterday afternoon that I heard something on the radio that I can't
                      > find
                      > now in the archives of KPFT or KUHF. I was driving, and failed to write down the key
                      > family surname. It was a lengthy discussion of a type of engine devised by someone
                      > from
                      > a long family line of tinkerers. I understood it could be either diesel or gasoline,
                      > compatible with hybrid systems, and supposedly far more efficient and cheaper than
                      > anything out there today. But, of course, suppressed by the big players. Did anybody
                      > else catch that program?
                      >
                      > Ariel
                      > - We are all Human beings here together. We have to help one another, since otherwise
                      > there is NO ONE who will help.
                      > - All countries need a NO REGRETS strategic energy policy. Think ahead 7 generations.
                      > ------------------------------------
                      >
                      >> It's the outsourcing to get rid of unions, benefits, health insurance
                      > and pensions,
                      >> which the corporations don't have to worry, and money saved goes to
                      > the top of the
                      >> Pyramid's exorbitant salaries and perks. They got the bad taste of
                      > GREED, which has
                      >> desensitized them to think about the interests of their customers.
                      > There are a lot of
                      >> neat technologies which can be used in todays cars to make them more
                      > reliable, but it
                      >> does suit the interest of the TOP guys at the APEX.
                      >>
                      >> Bashir A. Syed
                      >> ----- Original Message -----
                      >> From: Ariel Thomann
                      >> To: hreg@yahoogroups.com <mailto:hreg%40yahoogroups.com>
                      >> Cc: tigger@... <mailto:tigger%40io.com>
                      >> Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 12:54 PM
                      >> Subject: Re: [hreg] What is holding back American car companies?
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> Just think, during WW-II the aircraft companies could design, test,
                      > tool up, and
                      >> mass produce fighter planes sometimes in a matter of months...
                      >>
                      >> Ariel
                      > ------------------------------------
                      >>
                      >> > 2:40pm, blpasemann wrote:
                      >> >
                      >> >> Interesting article today, that Toyota is now the #2 automaker. I
                      > feel there is
                      >> an underlying reason car dealers are willing to keep losing money and
                      > marketshare
                      >> to keep promoting gas gusseling vehicles, while Honda and Toyota and
                      > kicking
                      >> their butt with hybrids and fuel economy. Don't they see this?? I feel
                      > the oil
                      >> companies, government and car makers are all in this together, but
                      > while oil
                      >> companies are making record profits, car dealers are losing lots of
                      > money and may
                      >> not recover. I want to know what other think and if they have some
                      > reasons why
                      >> this is happening. I personally have driven fords most of my life, but
                      > I will NOT
                      >> by a Ford again or an American car. I really want to a prius or what I
                      > will
                      >> probably do is build an electric car or biodiesel. Just wanted to put
                      > this out
                      >> there and see what you guys think.
                      >> >>
                      >> >
                      >> > I don't know for sure, but I would guess that part of what you (we)
                      > are seeing is
                      >> due to the lag from concept to market that auto makers go through. It
                      > typically
                      >> takes several years for a manufacturer to design and implement
                      > something new. I
                      >> don't know how long, but I'd guess between 3-5 years, depending on how
                      > much is new
                      >> vs how much has already been designed. (Consider an all-new vehicle vs
                      > a new body
                      >> on an existing chassis.) Think about the Dodge Magnum, a big,
                      > gas-guzzling beast
                      >> available with a 300HP (or so) engine. It came out about a year or so
                      > ago. It was
                      >> probably in the works before W. became President.
                      >> >
                      >> > Honda and Toyota have traditionally made smaller vehicles, so were
                      > probably in a
                      >> much better position from the start to offer more fuel-efficient cars
                      > and take
                      >> advantage of today's higher gas prices.
                      >> >
                      >> > Paul
                      >> >
                      >> >
                      >> >
                      >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                    • Ariel Thomann
                      Thank you, yes, that was it. For those who are curious about this Scuderi engine, here is their own website: : http://www.scuderigroup.com/ Ariel - We are all
                      Message 10 of 23 , Aug 2, 2006
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Thank you, yes, that was it. For those who are curious about this Scuderi engine, here
                        is their own website: : http://www.scuderigroup.com/

                        Ariel
                        - We are all Human beings here together. We have to help one another, since otherwise
                        there is NO ONE who will help.
                        - All countries need a NO REGRETS strategic energy policy. Think ahead 7 generations.
                        ------------------------------------

                        > You heard it on Marketplace on Tuesday.
                        > http://marketplace.publicradio.org/shows/2006/08/01/PM200608015.html Marketplace is an
                        > excellent program for Public Radio quality business news. Often the much overlooked
                        > business section of your local mewspaper is a very good source of news that does not
                        > make it to the local, state or world sections. Let me suggest that everyone start
                        > paying closer attention to "business" news. Jim Duncan
                        >
                        > ----- Original Message -----
                        > From: Ariel Thomann
                        > To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                        > Cc: bsyed@... ; houstonpeakoil@...
                        > Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 2:58 PM
                        > Subject: Re: [hreg] What is holding back American car companies?
                        >
                        >
                        > I think it was yesterday afternoon that I heard something on the radio that I can't
                        > find now in the archives of KPFT or KUHF. I was driving, and failed to write down
                        > the key family surname. It was a lengthy discussion of a type of engine devised by
                        > someone from a long family line of tinkerers. I understood it could be either diesel
                        > or gasoline, compatible with hybrid systems, and supposedly far more efficient and
                        > cheaper than anything out there today. But, of course, suppressed by the big
                        > players. Did anybody else catch that program?
                        >
                        > Ariel
                        > - We are all Human beings here together. We have to help one another, since
                        > otherwise there is NO ONE who will help.
                        > - All countries need a NO REGRETS strategic energy policy. Think ahead 7
                        > generations. ------------------------------------
                        >
                        > > It's the outsourcing to get rid of unions, benefits, health insurance and
                        > pensions, which the corporations don't have to worry, and money saved goes to the
                        > top of the Pyramid's exorbitant salaries and perks. They got the bad taste of
                        > GREED, which has desensitized them to think about the interests of their
                        > customers. There are a lot of neat technologies which can be used in todays cars
                        > to make them more reliable, but it does suit the interest of the TOP guys at the
                        > APEX.
                        > >
                        > > Bashir A. Syed
                        > > ----- Original Message -----
                        > > From: Ariel Thomann
                        > > To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                        > > Cc: tigger@...
                        > > Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 12:54 PM
                        > > Subject: Re: [hreg] What is holding back American car companies?
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Just think, during WW-II the aircraft companies could design, test, tool up, and
                        > mass produce fighter planes sometimes in a matter of months...
                        > >
                        > > Ariel
                        > ------------------------------------
                        > >
                        > > > 2:40pm, blpasemann wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > >> Interesting article today, that Toyota is now the #2 automaker. I feel there is
                        > > an underlying reason car dealers are willing to keep losing money and marketshare
                        > to keep promoting gas gusseling vehicles, while Honda and Toyota and kicking their
                        > butt with hybrids and fuel economy. Don't they see this?? I feel the oil
                        > companies, government and car makers are all in this together, but while oil
                        > companies are making record profits, car dealers are losing lots of money and may
                        > not recover. I want to know what other think and if they have some reasons why
                        > this is happening. I personally have driven fords most of my life, but I will NOT
                        > by a Ford again or an American car. I really want to a prius or what I will
                        > probably do is build an electric car or biodiesel. Just wanted to put this out
                        > there and see what you guys think.
                        > > >>
                        > > >
                        > > > I don't know for sure, but I would guess that part of what you (we) are seeing
                        > is
                        > > due to the lag from concept to market that auto makers go through. It typically
                        > takes several years for a manufacturer to design and implement something new. I
                        > don't know how long, but I'd guess between 3-5 years, depending on how much is new
                        > vs how much has already been designed. (Consider an all-new vehicle vs a new body
                        > on an existing chassis.) Think about the Dodge Magnum, a big, gas-guzzling beast
                        > available with a 300HP (or so) engine. It came out about a year or so ago. It was
                        > probably in the works before W. became President.
                        > > >
                        > > > Honda and Toyota have traditionally made smaller vehicles, so were probably in a
                        > > much better position from the start to offer more fuel-efficient cars and take
                        > advantage of today's higher gas prices.
                        > > >
                        > > > Paul
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                      • Garth & Kim Travis
                        Greetings, Messages of this type do not belong on the list, if you have a problem, contact the list owner off list. Bright Blessings, Kim
                        Message 11 of 23 , Aug 3, 2006
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Greetings,
                          Messages of this type do not belong on the list,  if you have a problem, contact the list owner off list.
                          Bright Blessings,
                          Kim


                          At 04:15 PM 8/2/2006, you wrote:
                          I’ve cancelled my subscription to this membership, yet I still get emails. Can you please take me off the list.

                          Thanks.
                           
                          Laura La Rue
                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [ mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sean Kaylor
                          Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 3:11 PM
                          To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [hreg] What is holding back American car companies?
                           

                          The engine you are referring to is called a Scuderi split cycle engine designed by the late Carmelo Scuderi.

                          About US auto makers. Isn't it ironic that CAFE standards haven't been raised since the mid-1980's? The US is the only developed nation to actually have an average reduction in automobile fuel efficiency in the past ten years. Why aren't CAFE standards raised? While I would shy away from pointing fingers directly- there is a lot of blame centered around the United Auto Workers and the mid-west politicians. The UAW claimes that raising CAFE standards will jepordize passenger safety because to obtain a more fuel efficient vehicle major weight reductions will have to take place. Also, the UAW and domestic car manufacturing firms fear that raising fuel efficiency standards might give foreign competitors a strategic advantage because, just as was mentioned earlier in this post, Hond and Toyota have been successfully designing, manufacturing, and selling more efficient vehicles for several decades now.

                          It is rather ironic that Ford and GM are losing money hand over fist not simply because they are losing market share in the compact/sub-compact categories, but mainly because their high profit margin SUV and truck categories are having to compete against Toyota and Honda SUV and truck models. Looks like domestic auto production is declining on all fronts which is unfortunate.

                          Sean

                           

                          From: "Jim & Janet" <jhd1@...>
                          Reply-To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                          To: <hreg@yahoogroups.com>
                          Subject: Re: [hreg] What is holding back American car companies?
                          Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 15:36:05 -0500
                          You heard it on Marketplace on Tuesday. http://marketplace.publicradio.org/shows/2006/08/01/PM200608015.html
                          Marketplace is an excellent program for Public Radio quality business news.
                          Often the much overlooked business section of your local mewspaper is a very good source of news that does not make it to the local, state or world sections. Let me suggest that everyone start paying closer attention to "business" news.
                          Jim Duncan
                           
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: Ariel Thomann
                          To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                          Cc: bsyed@... ; houstonpeakoil@...
                          Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 2:58 PM
                          Subject: Re: [hreg] What is holding back American car companies?
                           

                          I think it was yesterday afternoon that I heard something on the radio that I can't find
                          now in the archives of KPFT or KUHF. I was driving, and failed to write down the key
                          family surname. It was a lengthy discussion of a type of engine devised by someone from
                          a long family line of tinkerers. I understood it could be either diesel or gasoline,
                          compatible with hybrid systems, and supposedly far more efficient and cheaper than
                          anything out there today. But, of course, suppressed by the big players. Did anybody
                          else catch that program?

                          Ariel
                          - We are all Human beings here together. We have to help one another, since otherwise
                          there is NO ONE who will help.
                          - All countries need a NO REGRETS strategic energy policy. Think ahead 7 generations.
                          ------------------------------------

                          > It's the outsourcing to get rid of unions, benefits, health insurance and pensions,
                          > which the corporations don't have to worry, and money saved goes to the top of the
                          > Pyramid's exorbitant salaries and perks. They got the bad taste of GREED, which has
                          > desensitized them to think about the interests of their customers. There are a lot of
                          > neat technologies which can be used in todays cars to make them more reliable, but it
                          > does suit the interest of the TOP guys at the APEX.
                          >
                          > Bashir A. Syed
                          > ----- Original Message -----
                          > From: Ariel Thomann
                          > To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                          > Cc: tigger@...
                          > Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 12:54 PM
                          > Subject: Re: [hreg] What is holding back American car companies?
                          >
                          >
                          > Just think, during WW-II the aircraft companies could design, test, tool up, and
                          > mass produce fighter planes sometimes in a matter of months...
                          >
                          > Ariel
                          ------------------------------------
                          >
                          > > 2:40pm, blpasemann wrote:
                          > >
                          > >> Interesting article today, that Toyota is now the #2 automaker. I feel there is
                          > an underlying reason car dealers are willing to keep losing money and marketshare
                          > to keep promoting gas gusseling vehicles, while Honda and Toyota and kicking
                          > their butt with hybrids and fuel economy. Don't they see this?? I feel the oil
                          > companies, government and car makers are all in this together, but while oil
                          > companies are making record profits, car dealers are losing lots of money and may
                          > not recover. I want to know what other think and if they have some reasons why
                          > this is happening. I personally have driven fords most of my life, but I will NOT
                          > by a Ford again or an American car. I really want to a prius or what I will
                          > probably do is build an electric car or biodiesel. Just wanted to put this out
                          > there and see what you guys think.
                          > >>
                          > >
                          > > I don't know for sure, but I would guess that part of what you (we) are seeing is
                          > due to the lag from concept to market that auto makers go through. It typically
                          > takes several years for a manufacturer to design and implement something new. I
                          > don't know how long, but I'd guess between 3-5 years, depending on how much is new
                          > vs how much has already been designed. (Consider an all-new vehicle vs a new body
                          > on an existing chassis.) Think about the Dodge Magnum, a big, gas-guzzling beast
                          > available with a 300HP (or so) engine. It came out about a year or so ago. It was
                          > probably in the works before W. became President.
                          > >
                          > > Honda and Toyota have traditionally made smaller vehicles, so were probably in a
                          > much better position from the start to offer more fuel-efficient cars and take
                          > advantage of today's higher gas prices.
                          > >
                          > > Paul
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Yahoo! Groups Links

                           

                        • Paul Archer
                          ... For those of you who don t quite get what s different about this engine, let me attempt an explaination. First, a normal engine uses a four-stroke cycle.
                          Message 12 of 23 , Aug 3, 2006
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Yesterday, Ariel Thomann wrote:

                            > Thank you, yes, that was it. For those who are curious about this Scuderi engine, here
                            > is their own website: : http://www.scuderigroup.com/
                            >

                            For those of you who don't quite get what's different about this engine, let
                            me attempt an explaination.

                            First, a normal engine uses a four-stroke cycle.


                            Piston movement: down up down up
                            Action happening: intake compression power exhaust

                            In other words, as the piston moves down, it takes in a fuel/air mixture.
                            The valves close, and the piston moves up, compressing the air (and fuel).
                            The piston gets (almost to) the top of the stroke, and the spark plug fires,
                            igniting the air/fuel mixture, and starting the power stroke. The expanding
                            gasses push the piston down, providing power. The piston moves back up, and
                            the exhaust gas is released.

                            What happens in the Scuderi engine
                            (http://scuderigroup.com/technology/images/scuderi_piston2.jpg) is that the
                            air/fuel mixture (or possibly just the air, and the fuel is injected later)
                            flows from the first piston (on the left) to the second piston (on the
                            right).
                            The second piston acts like the piston in a normal engine (performing the
                            four phases I listed above). The first piston is ganged to the second, so
                            they move (roughly) in phase.
                            Every time the second piston moves down (on intake and power), the first
                            piston does too, filling up with air. Every time the second piston moves up
                            (on compression and exhaust), the first on does too, pushing air into the
                            chamber between the pistons.

                            What this means is that with a normal engine, a piston can take in the
                            volume of one cylinder every cycle. With the Scuderi engine, the piston (the
                            power piston on the right, that is) takes in the volume of two cylinders
                            every cycle.

                            I don't honestly know if this is really any better than a standard
                            supercharger, since that's all this really is. (A supercharger uses a
                            compressor turbine driven directly off the engine to compress incoming air
                            to get more in the cylinder. A turbocharger, BTW, does the same job, but is
                            driven from exhaust gas pressure.)

                            I also question the wisdom of a four-cylinder engine (that according to the
                            website produces as much power as a six-cylinder engine) that only fires on
                            two cylinders. The problem here, especially if it does produce as much power
                            as a six-cylinder engine, is that it means the power cylinder is doing three
                            times the work (and producing three times the heat) of a cylinder in a
                            regular car. That points to the potential for heat-related problems.

                            There is potential here, though. Using a piston to compress the incoming air
                            is probably cheaper (in terms of mechanical efficiency) than a supercharger.
                            And it would produce much higher boost. A standard turbocharger (I can't
                            give you numbers for superchargers, 'cause I don't know as much about them)
                            produces around 8lbs(per square inch) of boost. Performance modders rarely
                            jack them up past 12lbs because of reliability issues, and 15lbs (which is a
                            full atmosphere) of boost is pretty much the max you can run them at without
                            a high risk of failure.
                            By doubling the amount of air going into the power cylinder, they're
                            effectively doubling the atmospheric pressue, which would be like 15lbs
                            boost from a turbo/super-charger.
                            Their website mentions being able to fire the spark after TDC (top dead
                            center), and having a superfast burn. In a normal engine, the spark is fired
                            before the piston is done compressing the gas, so that it's burning well
                            by the time the piston is moving down. That's inefficient. So being able to
                            produce a complete burn after TDC is a win.


                            Paul
                          • Henry H Haynes
                            At what psi does spontaneous combustion become a factor with a gasoline/air mixture? Henry ... For those of you who don t quite get what s different about this
                            Message 13 of 23 , Aug 3, 2006
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                              At what psi does spontaneous combustion become a factor with a gasoline/air mixture?

                              Henry

                              Paul Archer <tigger@...> wrote:
                              Yesterday, Ariel Thomann wrote:

                              > Thank you, yes, that was it. For those who are curious about this Scuderi engine, here
                              > is their own website: : http://www.scuderig roup.com/
                              >

                              For those of you who don't quite get what's different about this engine, let
                              me attempt an explaination.

                              First, a normal engine uses a four-stroke cycle.

                              Piston movement: down up down up
                              Action happening: intake compression power exhaust

                              In other words, as the piston moves down, it takes in a fuel/air mixture.
                              The valves close, and the piston moves up, compressing the air (and fuel).
                              The piston gets (almost to) the top of the stroke, and the spark plug fires,
                              igniting the air/fuel mixture, and starting the power stroke. The expanding
                              gasses push the piston down, providing power. The piston moves back up, and
                              the exhaust gas is released.

                              What happens in the Scuderi engine
                              (http://scuderigroup .com/technology/ images/scuderi_ piston2.jpg) is that the
                              air/fuel mixture (or possibly just the air, and the fuel is injected later)
                              flows from the first piston (on the left) to the second piston (on the
                              right).
                              The second piston acts like the piston in a normal engine (performing the
                              four phases I listed above). The first piston is ganged to the second, so
                              they move (roughly) in phase.
                              Every time the second piston moves down (on intake and power), the first
                              piston does too, filling up with air. Every time the second piston moves up
                              (on compression and exhaust), the first on does too, pushing air into the
                              chamber between the pistons.

                              What this means is that with a normal engine, a piston can take in the
                              volume of one cylinder every cycle. With the Scuderi engine, the piston (the
                              power piston on the right, that is) takes in the volume of two cylinders
                              every cycle.

                              I don't honestly know if this is really any better than a standard
                              supercharger, since that's all this really is. (A supercharger uses a
                              compressor turbine driven directly off the engine to compress incoming air
                              to get more in the cylinder. A turbocharger, BTW, does the same job, but is
                              driven from exhaust gas pressure.)

                              I also question the wisdom of a four-cylinder engine (that according to the
                              website produces as much power as a six-cylinder engine) that only fires on
                              two cylinders. The problem here, especially if it does produce as much power
                              as a six-cylinder engine, is that it means the power cylinder is doing three
                              times the work (and producing three times the heat) of a cylinder in a
                              regular car. That points to the potential for heat-related problems.

                              There is potential here, though. Using a piston to compress the incoming air
                              is probably cheaper (in terms of mechanical efficiency) than a supercharger.
                              And it would produce much higher boost. A standard turbocharger (I can't
                              give you numbers for superchargers, 'cause I don't know as much about them)
                              produces around 8lbs(per square inch) of boost. Performance modders rarely
                              jack them up past 12lbs because of reliability issues, and 15lbs (which is a
                              full atmosphere) of boost is pretty much the max you can run them at without
                              a high risk of failure.
                              By doubling the amount of air going into the power cylinder, they're
                              effectively doubling the atmospheric pressue, which would be like 15lbs
                              boost from a turbo/super- charger.
                              Their website mentions being able to fire the spark after TDC (top dead
                              center), and having a superfast burn. In a normal engine, the spark is fired
                              before the piston is done compressing the gas, so that it's burning well
                              by the time the piston is moving down. That's inefficient. So being able to
                              produce a complete burn after TDC is a win.

                              Paul

                            • Paul Archer
                              Good question. It s one I don t know the answer to, and part of the reason why I m unsure about the promise of this new engine design. ... [snip]
                              Message 14 of 23 , Aug 3, 2006
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                                Good question. It's one I don't know the answer to, and part of the reason
                                why I'm unsure about the promise of this new engine design.

                                8:35am, Henry H Haynes wrote:

                                > At what psi does spontaneous combustion become a factor with a gasoline/air mixture?
                                >
                                > Henry
                                >
                                > Paul Archer <tigger@...> wrote: Yesterday, Ariel Thomann wrote:
                                >
                                > > Thank you, yes, that was it. For those who are curious about this Scuderi engine, here
                                > > is their own website: : http://www.scuderigroup.com/
                                > >
                                >
                                > For those of you who don't quite get what's different about this engine, let
                                > me attempt an explaination.
                                [snip]
                              • Robert Johnston
                                Depends on the temperature, of course. At atmospheric pressure, the autoignition temperature (AIT) defines the point at which spontaneous ignition occurs.
                                Message 15 of 23 , Aug 3, 2006
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                                  Depends on the temperature, of course.  At atmospheric pressure, the autoignition temperature (AIT) defines the point at which spontaneous ignition occurs.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autoignition_temperature reports 275°C for gasoline (in air).  Normally, AIT is measured at atmospheric pressure. 

                                   

                                  There is a brief discussion of an apparatus to measure the effect of pressure on the AIT found at http://www.ptb.de/de/org/3/34/341/goedde.htm.  Basically, as pressure increases, the AIT decreases, but there is a limit to this effect due since increased pressure also shifts the liquid-vapor equilibrium towards the liquid phase.

                                   

                                  The Semenov Equation giving the effect of pressure on AIT is shown on p. 4 of this article, with a graph:  http://www.me.berkeley.edu/ME140/Handout-1.pdf

                                   

                                  There is a lot more in the literature on this, of course, but those are a few free references that showed up on Google.  As the article points out, diesel engines are designed to run in that fashion (no spark); that’s why they are so much fun to start in an Alaskan winter!

                                   

                                  Robert Johnston

                                   


                                  From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto: hreg@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Paul Archer
                                  Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2006 12:17 PM
                                  To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: Re: [hreg] What is holding back American car companies?

                                   

                                  Good question. It's one I don't know the answer to, and part of the reason
                                  why I'm unsure about the promise of this new engine design.

                                  8:35am, Henry H Haynes wrote:

                                  > At what psi does spontaneous combustion become a factor with a
                                  gasoline/air mixture?
                                  >
                                  > Henry
                                  >
                                  > Paul Archer <tigger@...>
                                  wrote: Yesterday, Ariel Thomann wrote:
                                  >
                                  > > Thank you, yes, that was it. For those who are curious about this
                                  Scuderi engine, here
                                  > > is their own website: : http://www.scuderig roup.com/
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > For those of you who don't quite get what's different about this engine,
                                  let
                                  > me attempt an explaination.
                                  [snip]

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