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RE: [hreg] solar fridges

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  • Steve Stelzer
    Kim: the Florida Solar Energy Center has data to back up the energy consumption of a refrigerator in a typical house in a hot/humid climate to be as much as
    Message 1 of 13 , Nov 27, 2000
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      Kim: the Florida Solar Energy Center has data to back up the energy
      consumption of a refrigerator in a typical house in a hot/humid climate to
      be as much as 10% of the bill. It is always on, and it dumps waste heat
      into the house to then air condition. I recently designed a deli space in a
      hotel where we put remote roof mounted compressors for the coolers to keep
      the noise and load down in the space. I'm not sure how efficient that is,
      but it did add cost to the project. I've often wondered about the
      feasibility of remote compressors for residential units. Has anyone heard
      about any development on this front?

      Steve Stelzer

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Kim & Garth Travis [mailto:gartht@...]
      Sent: Monday, November 27, 2000 9:29 AM
      To: hreg@egroups.com
      Subject: [hreg] solar fridges


      Hi,
      I was wondering, is it possible to use the same technology developed for
      the solar fridge and use it to create a solar deep freeze? Also, how
      much heat does the solar fridge put out? We purchased a high seer
      rated fridge last year for xmas and discovered that it gives off twice
      the heat of our old fridge. [it is also twice the size] I am finding
      that my air conditioning load is drastically affected by my appliances.
      Kim
    • SPENCER, VICTOR (JSC-EP4)
      Please remove my address from this list. Thanks, Vic ... From: Steve Stelzer [mailto:steve@courtneyhp.com] Sent: Monday, November 27, 2000 9:46 AM To:
      Message 2 of 13 , Nov 27, 2000
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        Please remove my address from this list.
        Thanks, Vic

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Steve Stelzer [mailto:steve@...]
        Sent: Monday, November 27, 2000 9:46 AM
        To: hreg@egroups.com
        Subject: RE: [hreg] solar fridges


        Kim: the Florida Solar Energy Center has data to back up the energy
        consumption of a refrigerator in a typical house in a hot/humid climate to
        be as much as 10% of the bill. It is always on, and it dumps waste heat
        into the house to then air condition. I recently designed a deli space in a
        hotel where we put remote roof mounted compressors for the coolers to keep
        the noise and load down in the space. I'm not sure how efficient that is,
        but it did add cost to the project. I've often wondered about the
        feasibility of remote compressors for residential units. Has anyone heard
        about any development on this front?

        Steve Stelzer

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Kim & Garth Travis [mailto:gartht@...]
        Sent: Monday, November 27, 2000 9:29 AM
        To: hreg@egroups.com
        Subject: [hreg] solar fridges


        Hi,
        I was wondering, is it possible to use the same technology developed for
        the solar fridge and use it to create a solar deep freeze? Also, how
        much heat does the solar fridge put out? We purchased a high seer
        rated fridge last year for xmas and discovered that it gives off twice
        the heat of our old fridge. [it is also twice the size] I am finding
        that my air conditioning load is drastically affected by my appliances.
        Kim
      • Andrew McCalla
        I m not sure what Kim means by solar fridge . Would that be an ultra high efficiency model along the lines of a SunFrost or a VestFrost, or would that be a
        Message 3 of 13 , Nov 27, 2000
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          I'm not sure what Kim means by "solar fridge". Would that be an ultra high
          efficiency model along the lines of a SunFrost or a VestFrost, or would
          that be a solar thermal unit like an ammonia absorption unit? If the
          former, VestFrost has a great 7.3 cu. ft. chest freezer that uses
          .54kWH/day @ 77 degrees F; and SunFrost has a great 10 cu. ft. upright
          freezer that uses .69kWH/day @ 70 degrees F.

          Regardless, the load profile is drastically affected by appliances; and
          consequently their placement and use in the house is extra
          important. Short of modifying the appliance, appropriate placement,
          venting, and use practices can do amazing things for any appliance's load
          signature, and for the overall load of the residence. While visiting RMI
          http://www.rmi.org/ in '95 I noticed that their dual SunFrost RF 19's were
          modified in such a way that the entire compressor assembly could be mounted
          outside in the winter.

          Andrew
          Andrew H. McCalla
          Meridian Energy Systems, Inc.
          Solar-Electric System Design, Installation, and Service.
          P.O. Box 5810
          Austin, TX 78763
          Tel: 512-477-3050
          Fax: 512-477-3035
          www.meridiansolar.com
        • Robert Johnston
          I ve seen quite a few of these please remove me notices lately. It would be interesting to know the reasons. I hope we aren t losing HREG members just
          Message 4 of 13 , Nov 27, 2000
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            I've seen quite a few of these "please remove me" notices lately. It would
            be interesting to know the reasons. I hope we aren't losing HREG members
            just because people don't want to participate in the full range of mail-list
            discussions. I realize that it can add up to a fair bit of "spam" for some
            people, while others enjoy the discussions.

            Suggestion to HREG officers: Consider splitting the mailing list into two
            lists. One for official HREG meeting notices and the like; the other for
            informal discussions, Q&A, etc. Then members can sign up just for the first
            list or for both, according to their preferences, and also can drop one
            without dropping out altogether, if they wish.

            Robert Johnston


            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: SPENCER, VICTOR (JSC-EP4) [mailto:victor.spencer@...]
            > Sent: Monday, November 27, 2000 10:29 AM
            > To: 'hreg@egroups.com'
            > Subject: RE: [hreg] solar fridges
            >
            >
            > Please remove my address from this list.
            > Thanks, Vic
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: Steve Stelzer [mailto:steve@...]
            > Sent: Monday, November 27, 2000 9:46 AM
            > To: hreg@egroups.com
            > Subject: RE: [hreg] solar fridges
            >
            >
            > Kim: the Florida Solar Energy Center has data to back up the energy
            > consumption of a refrigerator in a typical house in a
            > hot/humid climate to
            > be as much as 10% of the bill. It is always on, and it dumps
            > waste heat
            > into the house to then air condition. I recently designed a
            > deli space in a
            > hotel where we put remote roof mounted compressors for the
            > coolers to keep
            > the noise and load down in the space. I'm not sure how
            > efficient that is,
            > but it did add cost to the project. I've often wondered about the
            > feasibility of remote compressors for residential units. Has
            > anyone heard
            > about any development on this front?
            >
            > Steve Stelzer
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: Kim & Garth Travis [mailto:gartht@...]
            > Sent: Monday, November 27, 2000 9:29 AM
            > To: hreg@egroups.com
            > Subject: [hreg] solar fridges
            >
            >
            > Hi,
            > I was wondering, is it possible to use the same technology
            > developed for
            > the solar fridge and use it to create a solar deep freeze? Also, how
            > much heat does the solar fridge put out? We purchased a high seer
            > rated fridge last year for xmas and discovered that it gives
            > off twice
            > the heat of our old fridge. [it is also twice the size] I am finding
            > that my air conditioning load is drastically affected by my
            > appliances.
            > Kim
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
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            > -------------------------~-~>
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            > -------_->
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            >
            >
            >
            >
          • Jim & Kathi Syzdek
            It is a LOT of SPAM!! Have you guys thought about just allowing people to go to the egroups bulletin board to look at messages? I know I m getting pretty
            Message 5 of 13 , Nov 27, 2000
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              It is a LOT of SPAM!! Have you guys thought about just allowing people to
              go to the egroups bulletin board to look at messages? I know I'm getting
              pretty tired of having to go through all of the emails or just deleting them
              all if I don't have time to read them, so I won't go over my max allowed
              size for emails. Maybe a separate message board for those we don't mind it
              and/or let new members then know up front that you will get inidated with
              emails if someone wants to say a few words about some thing. This really
              should be left at a bulletin board level for individual members to go to if
              they want and only receive important notices via email.




              >From: "Robert Johnston" <rjohnsto@...>
              >Reply-To: hreg@egroups.com
              >To: <hreg@egroups.com>
              >Subject: RE: [hreg] solar fridges
              >Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 18:58:52 -0600
              >
              >I've seen quite a few of these "please remove me" notices lately. It would
              >be interesting to know the reasons. I hope we aren't losing HREG members
              >just because people don't want to participate in the full range of
              >mail-list
              >discussions. I realize that it can add up to a fair bit of "spam" for some
              >people, while others enjoy the discussions.
              >
              >Suggestion to HREG officers: Consider splitting the mailing list into two
              >lists. One for official HREG meeting notices and the like; the other for
              >informal discussions, Q&A, etc. Then members can sign up just for the
              >first
              >list or for both, according to their preferences, and also can drop one
              >without dropping out altogether, if they wish.
              >
              >Robert Johnston
              >
              >
              > > -----Original Message-----
              > > From: SPENCER, VICTOR (JSC-EP4) [mailto:victor.spencer@...]
              > > Sent: Monday, November 27, 2000 10:29 AM
              > > To: 'hreg@egroups.com'
              > > Subject: RE: [hreg] solar fridges
              > >
              > >
              > > Please remove my address from this list.
              > > Thanks, Vic
              > >
              > > -----Original Message-----
              > > From: Steve Stelzer [mailto:steve@...]
              > > Sent: Monday, November 27, 2000 9:46 AM
              > > To: hreg@egroups.com
              > > Subject: RE: [hreg] solar fridges
              > >
              > >
              > > Kim: the Florida Solar Energy Center has data to back up the energy
              > > consumption of a refrigerator in a typical house in a
              > > hot/humid climate to
              > > be as much as 10% of the bill. It is always on, and it dumps
              > > waste heat
              > > into the house to then air condition. I recently designed a
              > > deli space in a
              > > hotel where we put remote roof mounted compressors for the
              > > coolers to keep
              > > the noise and load down in the space. I'm not sure how
              > > efficient that is,
              > > but it did add cost to the project. I've often wondered about the
              > > feasibility of remote compressors for residential units. Has
              > > anyone heard
              > > about any development on this front?
              > >
              > > Steve Stelzer
              > >
              > > -----Original Message-----
              > > From: Kim & Garth Travis [mailto:gartht@...]
              > > Sent: Monday, November 27, 2000 9:29 AM
              > > To: hreg@egroups.com
              > > Subject: [hreg] solar fridges
              > >
              > >
              > > Hi,
              > > I was wondering, is it possible to use the same technology
              > > developed for
              > > the solar fridge and use it to create a solar deep freeze? Also, how
              > > much heat does the solar fridge put out? We purchased a high seer
              > > rated fridge last year for xmas and discovered that it gives
              > > off twice
              > > the heat of our old fridge. [it is also twice the size] I am finding
              > > that my air conditioning load is drastically affected by my
              > > appliances.
              > > Kim
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor
              > > -------------------------~-~>
              > > eLerts
              > > It's Easy. It's Fun. Best of All, it's Free!
              > > http://click.egroups.com/1/9699/0/_/58590/_/975342480/
              > > --------------------------------------------------------------
              > > -------_->
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >

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            • Kim & Garth Travis
              ... I am referring to the solar fridge that NASA developed for the space station. One of the first HREG meetings was at NASA to look at the fridge and its
              Message 6 of 13 , Nov 28, 2000
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                Andrew McCalla wrote:

                > I'm not sure what Kim means by "solar fridge".

                I am referring to the solar fridge that NASA developed for the space station.
                One of the first HREG meetings was at NASA to look at the fridge and its unique
                properties. I was wondering if the same technology could be used for a deep
                freeze. In addition to its every day applications, it would be great not to
                need a generator to back up the power for outages such as ice storms when the
                grid goes down for 4 or 5 days.

                Kim
              • Andrew McCalla
                Kim, I see. I wasn t aware of the refrigeration technology the space station was using.............not to say I haven t wondered about how they keep their
                Message 7 of 13 , Nov 28, 2000
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                  Kim,

                  I see. I wasn't aware of the refrigeration technology the space station
                  was using.............not to say I haven't wondered about how they keep
                  their fried chicken and beer cold.

                  I'll have to check into that.

                  On the issue of requiring a generator to weather (pun intended) ice storm
                  induced power outages: You don't. That is, if you only want to run
                  certain dedicated loads within the house. If you want to run all loads,
                  business as usual, then you will probably need one. Otherwise, you can get
                  away with an inverter/battery charger and an appropriately sized battery
                  bank. Naturally (pun definitely inteneded), you could add some pv modules
                  to increase your autonomy.

                  http://www.tracebackuppower.com/

                  Thanks for the word on the NASA fridge. If you have any links to it,
                  please send them my way.

                  Andrew

                  Andrew H. McCalla
                  Meridian Energy Systems, Inc.
                  Solar-Electric System Design, Installation, and Service.
                  P.O. Box 5810
                  Austin, TX 78763
                  Tel: 512-477-3050
                  Fax: 512-477-3035
                  www.meridiansolar.com
                • EXT-Mendell, Christopher N
                  Is the space station refrigerator functionality based on thermoelectric heat pump while utilizing vacuum panel technology for insulation? Chris Mendell
                  Message 8 of 13 , Nov 28, 2000
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                    Is the space station refrigerator functionality based on thermoelectric heat
                    pump while utilizing vacuum panel technology for insulation?
                    Chris Mendell

                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: Kim & Garth Travis [SMTP:gartht@...]
                    > Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2000 8:04 AM
                    > To: hreg@egroups.com
                    > Subject: Re: [hreg] solar fridges
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Andrew McCalla wrote:
                    >
                    > > I'm not sure what Kim means by "solar fridge".
                    >
                    > I am referring to the solar fridge that NASA developed for the space
                    > station.
                    > One of the first HREG meetings was at NASA to look at the fridge and its
                    > unique
                    > properties. I was wondering if the same technology could be used for a
                    > deep
                    > freeze. In addition to its every day applications, it would be great not
                    > to
                    > need a generator to back up the power for outages such as ice storms when
                    > the
                    > grid goes down for 4 or 5 days.
                    >
                    > Kim
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • Steve Shepard
                    Vestfrost makes a low energy freezer but it is AC power only. It uses 540 Watts per day. You could mate this to a renewable energy power system if you also
                    Message 9 of 13 , Nov 28, 2000
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                      Vestfrost makes a low energy freezer but it is AC power only. It uses 540
                      Watts per day.
                      You could mate this to a renewable energy power system if you also use an
                      inverter.

                      Maytag is now producing some very low energy appliances and it might be
                      worth checking them out and see if they compare to the Vestfrost or not.
                      Maytag would be more readily available.

                      SBT Designs
                      25840 IH-10 West #1
                      Boerne, Texas 78006
                      210-698-7109
                      FAX: 210-698-7147
                      http://www.sbtdesigns.com
                      sbtdesigns@...
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "Kim & Garth Travis" <gartht@...>
                      To: <hreg@egroups.com>
                      Sent: Monday, November 27, 2000 9:28 AM
                      Subject: [hreg] solar fridges


                      > Hi,
                      > I was wondering, is it possible to use the same technology developed for
                      > the solar fridge and use it to create a solar deep freeze? Also, how
                      > much heat does the solar fridge put out? We purchased a high seer
                      > rated fridge last year for xmas and discovered that it gives off twice
                      > the heat of our old fridge. [it is also twice the size] I am finding
                      > that my air conditioning load is drastically affected by my appliances.
                      > Kim
                      >
                      >
                      > eGroups Sponsor
                      >
                      >
                      >
                    • Andrew McCalla
                      Indeed, Maytag, as well as several other manufacturers, are upgrading the efficiencies of their appliances radically. For a fairly comprehensive listing, ACE3
                      Message 10 of 13 , Nov 29, 2000
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                        Indeed, Maytag, as well as several other manufacturers, are upgrading the efficiencies of their appliances radically.  For a fairly comprehensive listing, ACE3 publishes "The Most Energy-Efficient Appliances" on an annual basis.
                        http://www.aceee.org/consumerguide/mostenef.htm

                        Reefers are broken down by general cubic foot rating and by configuration (top freezer, side by side, etc.)
                        http://www.aceee.org/consumerguide/topfridge.htm

                        You should also check out their consumer guide if you get the chance:
                        http://www.aceee.org/consumerguide/index.htm

                        Note:  The Vestfrost uses 540 Watt-Hours per day, or .54kWH/Day.

                        Andrew
                        Andrew H. McCalla
                        Meridian Energy Systems, Inc.
                        Solar-Electric System Design, Installation, and Service.
                        P.O. Box 5810
                        Austin, TX  78763
                        Tel: 512-477-3050
                        Fax: 512-477-3035
                      • Ewert, Mike
                        Yes, the technology can be applied to freezers as well as refrigerators. However, Solus, the company which is commercializing the solar refrigerator has not
                        Message 11 of 13 , Nov 30, 2000
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                          Yes, the technology can be applied to freezers as well as refrigerators.
                          However, Solus, the company which is commercializing the solar refrigerator
                          has not produced any freezers for sale yet.

                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: Kim & Garth Travis [mailto:gartht@...]
                          Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2000 8:04 AM
                          To: hreg@egroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [hreg] solar fridges




                          Andrew McCalla wrote:

                          > I'm not sure what Kim means by "solar fridge".

                          I am referring to the solar fridge that NASA developed for the space
                          station.
                          One of the first HREG meetings was at NASA to look at the fridge and its
                          unique
                          properties. I was wondering if the same technology could be used for a deep
                          freeze. In addition to its every day applications, it would be great not to
                          need a generator to back up the power for outages such as ice storms when
                          the
                          grid goes down for 4 or 5 days.

                          Kim
                        • Ewert, Mike
                          Yes, the Europeans are building several refrigerator/freezers for the International Space Station which use thermoelectric cooling devices and vacuum panel
                          Message 12 of 13 , Dec 1, 2000
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                            Yes, the Europeans are building several refrigerator/freezers for the
                            International Space Station which use thermoelectric cooling devices and
                            vacuum panel insulation. There will be 3 on board at a time in the
                            Habitation module, which will arrive in 2005. Until then, the crew will eat
                            thermo-stabilized, dried and canned food.

                            The Space Station refrigerator will indeed be solar powered because the
                            whole Space Station is solar powered. Here is one link with a little
                            information about the power system.
                            http://space-power.grc.nasa.gov/spacedir/lerc-eps.html

                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: EXT-Mendell, Christopher N
                            [mailto:Christopher.Mendell@...]
                            Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2000 9:25 AM
                            To: 'hreg@egroups.com'
                            Subject: RE: [hreg] solar fridges


                            Is the space station refrigerator functionality based on thermoelectric heat
                            pump while utilizing vacuum panel technology for insulation?
                            Chris Mendell

                            > -----Original Message-----
                            > From: Kim & Garth Travis [SMTP:gartht@...]
                            > Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2000 8:04 AM
                            > To: hreg@egroups.com
                            > Subject: Re: [hreg] solar fridges
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Andrew McCalla wrote:
                            >
                            > > I'm not sure what Kim means by "solar fridge".
                            >
                            > I am referring to the solar fridge that NASA developed for the space
                            > station.
                            > One of the first HREG meetings was at NASA to look at the fridge and its
                            > unique
                            > properties. I was wondering if the same technology could be used for a
                            > deep
                            > freeze. In addition to its every day applications, it would be great not
                            > to
                            > need a generator to back up the power for outages such as ice storms when
                            > the
                            > grid goes down for 4 or 5 days.
                            >
                            > Kim
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
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