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RE: [hreg] Sunballs - local reps wanted

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  • Kevin L. Conlin
    Hi Paul, You re right, those numbers do add up, but it is hardly 5 times the output of flat panels. In addition, that production would only occur in an ideal
    Message 1 of 19 , Jun 5, 2006
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      Hi Paul, You're right, those numbers do add up, but it is hardly 5 times
      the output of flat panels. In addition, that production would only occur in
      an ideal situation, with no derating for inverters or cell heating, which
      typically reduces output up to 20%. That is what made me think they weren't
      for real, any time you promise that kind of improvement over proven
      technology, I'm suspect.

      ________________________
      Kevin Conlin
      Solarcraft, Inc.
      13130 Stafford Road, Suite 125
      Stafford, TX 77477-4536
      (281)495-0438
      fax (281)495-0440
      kconlin@...
      www.solarcraft.net


      -----Original Message-----
      From: Paul Archer [mailto:tigger@...]
      Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 2:24 PM
      To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [hreg] Sunballs - local reps wanted

      1:39pm, Kevin L. Conlin wrote:

      > I wouldn't run out and buy some quite yet. I haven't had a chance to
      > thoroughly check out their web site, but it seems to have a lot of hype,
      and
      > few facts. Their home page touts a 1200 sq meter home that produces 2MW
      per
      > month, but there are no photo's. I looked at some of the construction
      > details of their system, and it definitely is not designed to last 25
      years.
      > They also claim their system produces 5X flat panels, yet their production
      > numbers say a 330W system will produce 660kWh per year. Their numbers
      just
      > don't add up.
      > This would not be the first time a new solar product was oversold and over
      > -hyped, buyer beware, if it sounds too good to be true it probably isn't.
      >
      I agree with you that it's extremely important to be careful with a new
      vendor hyping a new product that's baded on a new technology.
      But the numbers you cite do actually add up. 330w times 5.5 hours usable sun

      a day times 365 days a year equals 660kwh.

      Paul



      >
      > I just ran across this in my personal archive of the list. I've checked
      the
      > website, and it looks like they are indeed offering systems for sale now.
      > In fact, they are offering 3KW systems (3KW inverter plus either 9x330w
      > SunCubes or 20x150w SunCubes) for AU $10,680. That's about US $8000--plus
      > shipping, of course.
      >
      > Just out of curiosity, does anyone have a ballpark on what a traditional
      > (large panel) 3KW system runs?
      >
      >
      >> Compared to panels, sunballs are more efficient (33% vs 15%), work
      >> better in Houston's heat, should be available in a few
      >> months. Their website asks for solar dealers interested in
      >> selling their product. http://www.greenandgoldenergy.com.au/
      >>
      >> I want a couple. With federal tax credit they seem to have a
      >> better payback than getting a new Sears fridge. (1.5 or 2 years).
      >>




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    • Paul Archer
      ... How do you measure 5 times the production of flat panels , though? I mean, 330w of flat panel vs one 330w SolarCube unit is still 330 watts. I missed the
      Message 2 of 19 , Jun 5, 2006
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        2:50pm, Kevin L. Conlin wrote:

        > Hi Paul, You're right, those numbers do add up, but it is hardly 5 times
        > the output of flat panels.

        How do you measure "5 times the production of flat panels", though? I mean,
        330w of flat panel vs one 330w SolarCube unit is still 330 watts.
        I missed the claim on their website, so I don't know the context of this
        claim.


        In addition, that production would only occur in
        > an ideal situation, with no derating for inverters or cell heating, which
        > typically reduces output up to 20%. That is what made me think they weren't
        > for real, any time you promise that kind of improvement over proven
        > technology, I'm suspect.
        >

        That's true, they're not taking system inneficiencies into account. They do
        talk about the fact that they're using triple junction solar cells, which
        have a much higher heat tolerance, and lose about .04% efficiency per degree
        celcius vs .50% per degree for silicon.

        Just to be clear: I'm not trying to cheerlead for them. I'm just trying to
        make sure we're on the same page.

        BTW, I found an article about another company developing a similar product:

        http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/13.07/solar.html

        Paul
      • Kevin L. Conlin
        Hi Paul, Sorry, I don t have much time to get back into this, if you click onto their site and go to the Discussion Forum you will see a picture of their ball
        Message 3 of 19 , Jun 5, 2006
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          Hi Paul, Sorry, I don't have much time to get back into this, if you click
          onto their site and go to the Discussion Forum you will see a picture of
          their ball with the caption of 5X the production of flat panels for the same
          size. I think we are in agreement, for the same size aperture and same
          level of insolation, it will be impossible to out produce flat panels by a
          factor of 5. If you look at their logo, mascot or drawings, they are very
          amateurish, nothing I would post on a web site. Now they are claiming they
          can't produce the tight tolerance ball product, and have gone to the
          SunCube. The whole product, presentation and web site are very hokey in my
          opinion.

          Regards, Kevin

          ________________________
          Kevin Conlin
          Solarcraft, Inc.
          13130 Stafford Road, Suite 125
          Stafford, TX 77477-4536
          (281)495-0438
          fax (281)495-0440
          kconlin@...
          www.solarcraft.net


          -----Original Message-----
          From: Paul Archer [mailto:tigger@...]
          Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 3:37 PM
          To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: [hreg] Sunballs - local reps wanted

          2:50pm, Kevin L. Conlin wrote:

          > Hi Paul, You're right, those numbers do add up, but it is hardly 5 times
          > the output of flat panels.

          How do you measure "5 times the production of flat panels", though? I mean,
          330w of flat panel vs one 330w SolarCube unit is still 330 watts.
          I missed the claim on their website, so I don't know the context of this
          claim.


          In addition, that production would only occur in
          > an ideal situation, with no derating for inverters or cell heating, which
          > typically reduces output up to 20%. That is what made me think they
          weren't
          > for real, any time you promise that kind of improvement over proven
          > technology, I'm suspect.
          >

          That's true, they're not taking system inneficiencies into account. They do
          talk about the fact that they're using triple junction solar cells, which
          have a much higher heat tolerance, and lose about .04% efficiency per degree

          celcius vs .50% per degree for silicon.

          Just to be clear: I'm not trying to cheerlead for them. I'm just trying to
          make sure we're on the same page.

          BTW, I found an article about another company developing a similar product:

          http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/13.07/solar.html

          Paul




          Yahoo! Groups Links
        • Michael Ewert
          I m cautious too but I did see some concentrating PV systems at the ASES conference last year. We should remember that concentrating solar systems rely on
          Message 4 of 19 , Jun 17, 2006
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            I'm cautious too but I did see some concentrating PV systems at the ASES
            conference last year.

            We should remember that concentrating solar systems rely on direct solar
            radiation. Near the coast, we get a higher fraction of diffuse
            radiation as compared to Austin or El Paso. That doesn't mean it won't
            work here, but it's annual performance will be affected.

            -----Original Message-----
            From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
            Paul Archer
            Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 2:24 PM
            To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [hreg] Sunballs - local reps wanted

            1:39pm, Kevin L. Conlin wrote:

            > I wouldn't run out and buy some quite yet. I haven't had a chance to
            > thoroughly check out their web site, but it seems to have a lot of
            hype, and
            > few facts. Their home page touts a 1200 sq meter home that produces
            2MW per
            > month, but there are no photo's. I looked at some of the construction
            > details of their system, and it definitely is not designed to last 25
            years.
            > They also claim their system produces 5X flat panels, yet their
            production
            > numbers say a 330W system will produce 660kWh per year. Their numbers
            just
            > don't add up.
            > This would not be the first time a new solar product was oversold and
            over
            > -hyped, buyer beware, if it sounds too good to be true it probably
            isn't.
            >
            I agree with you that it's extremely important to be careful with a new
            vendor hyping a new product that's baded on a new technology.
            But the numbers you cite do actually add up. 330w times 5.5 hours usable
            sun
            a day times 365 days a year equals 660kwh.

            Paul



            >
            > I just ran across this in my personal archive of the list. I've
            checked the
            > website, and it looks like they are indeed offering systems for sale
            now.
            > In fact, they are offering 3KW systems (3KW inverter plus either
            9x330w
            > SunCubes or 20x150w SunCubes) for AU $10,680. That's about US
            $8000--plus
            > shipping, of course.
            >
            > Just out of curiosity, does anyone have a ballpark on what a
            traditional
            > (large panel) 3KW system runs?
            >
            >
            >> Compared to panels, sunballs are more efficient (33% vs 15%), work
            >> better in Houston's heat, should be available in a few
            >> months. Their website asks for solar dealers interested in
            >> selling their product. http://www.greenandgoldenergy.com.au/
            >>
            >> I want a couple. With federal tax credit they seem to have a
            >> better payback than getting a new Sears fridge. (1.5 or 2 years).
            >>




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