Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [hreg] Roger Ebert reviews An Inconvenient Truth

Expand Messages
  • Edward Kramer
    Bill, Don t fret too much, the american spirit is alive and well. there are some wonderful technolgies being developed by solar R&D supported by our President.
    Message 1 of 23 , Jun 4, 2006
    • 0 Attachment
      Bill,
       
       Don't fret too much, the american spirit is alive and well. there are some wonderful technolgies being developed by solar R&D supported by our President. There will be glass and paint solar chip technology available to make cars run on the sun energy, fuel cell improvement, probably 5 years down the road. You ae going to see some explosive energy technolgoy coming, just as the PC start up, affordable by a few (4000.00) sysems to a price below 200! The solar industry is a spin off , using micro chip processing technolgy to convert suns energy (photons) to electrons. Houston once was a leader in PC revoloution( Compaque)-what has happened to this city desire for only polloution!
      Keep the spirit, we are working hard to educate the public.
       
      Edward
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 10:21 AM
      Subject: Re: [hreg] Roger Ebert reviews An Inconvenient Truth

      Sadly this is true, the propaganda machine is more the rule than the exception. The people of the United States have deveoped a sense of comfort and attitude that "it cannot happen here." Until disaster acually smacks them in the ass will people react. Moreover the price we pay for energy is just a placebo at this point, willing to complain about the cost is only ONE bottom line. Until we realize AND act that we as a inhabitant of this planet have only a finite amount of resources (air,water,food and energy) and that the lack of any of these actually get us out of our "comfort zone" will we do something. When fuel is five bucks a gallon and only available once a month will we trade in our petro suckers. Only when there is limited foodstuffs in the markets at unbelievable prices will we begin to plant our own gardens and food crops. When the people that are most affected suffer to survive daily means to find protection from the elements, food and housing and will resort to any means to achieve that will we realize sustainability should have started twenty years ago. We seem to have this aptitude to do nothing until the very last moment then violently react. Our government is even further behind its constituents and will be able to do very little constructive governing, instead to stem the bleeding, create more propaganda that everything is OK, trust us. ??? Unfortunately our government right now is more adept at "destructive and deceptive" governing. I would love to say that my family and I are close to the Earth and able to understand these changes and help to make the change. Being close to nature and observation are indeed only two of the tools we use in Permaculture.
      In my opinion there should be a country/government called "The United States of American Sustainabilty." Governed by and for sustainability, with no questions about laws regarding environmental protection/restoration, protecting farming principles, renewable energies, RECYCLING( a huge industry), businesses that support and grow technologies for planet protection around the world, education (of all technologies) and the cooperation between other nations under stress. When will MONEY & GREED give way to survival of ourselves and the continued survival of this little blue planet.
      Yeah, I know it sounds like some Utopian zealot and I can understand that, but if you boil it down our current world situation that is, it looks pretty crappy, selfish and quite like the science fiction novels we have all read. If we as inhabitants ( not Americans, Chinese, Russians, Europeans etc.) manage to scew-up photosynthesis on this planet, all bets are off, we will be screwed, think about it.
      Thank you all for letting me blither here, I am pissed, saddened and mixed with a tiny flame of hope and excitement that we can accomodate change.
       
                                                       Thanks to all, Bill Stange

      Renewable energyRenewable energy resourcesRenewable energy sources
      Renewable energy systemRenewable energy creditRenewable energy news

    • Sarah Carriger
      I do not understand the comment of where the children are going to play. Same place they played before the turn of the 20th century - before oil production
      Message 2 of 23 , Jun 4, 2006
      • 0 Attachment
        I do not understand the comment of where the children are going to play.  Same place they played before the turn of the 20th century - before oil production became a big business - outside.  If fossil fuel is causing global warming, then isn't this a good thing that we run out of fossil fuels???  This planet and her inhabitants survived just fine without oil and we can do it again.  It appears that only when the supply is indeed limited will there be any advances in alternative energy production, because at that point there will be no choice.


        Edward Kramer wrote:
        Thanks for the invite, but I would rather conserve my fuel, as the round trip from my house is costly and I will do my part to help the future. Remeber, there is only 70-80 year supply of fossil fuel in the world. Where are the chiildren going to play?

      • Edward Kramer
        A geophysicist will argue that we are in a natural warming caused by changing sea levels, shift in plates and natural changes in the jet stream. Global warming
        Message 3 of 23 , Jun 4, 2006
        • 0 Attachment
          A geophysicist will argue that we are in a natural warming caused by changing sea levels, shift in plates and natural changes in the jet stream. Global warming might be a small cause of the natural warming trend, and the earth atmosphee can handle any Co2 gases that we humans combust. Electricity is suppose to make our life better, and if we do not find a sustainable source of electricity, life for our children and theirs will revert to prehistoric times. We are here for a very short time, we should only borrow from mother nature, not take. If we deplete the carbon resources,
          what is the next generation going to do for the very basic building life of all matter-black carbon. Rather than utilizing the carbon for the solid production of physical goods, we are burning it up in combustion for electricity. Once its gone, its gone. If we do not wake up and make some serious changes in our lifestyles, how we use the exiting resources, the future does not look so bright the children. 
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 6:53 PM
          Subject: Re: [hreg] Roger Ebert reviews An Inconvenient Truth

          I do not understand the comment of where the children are going to play.  Same place they played before the turn of the 20th century - before oil production became a big business - outside.  If fossil fuel is causing global warming, then isn't this a good thing that we run out of fossil fuels???  This planet and her inhabitants survived just fine without oil and we can do it again.  It appears that only when the supply is indeed limited will there be any advances in alternative energy production, because at that point there will be no choice.


          Edward Kramer wrote:
          Thanks for the invite, but I would rather conserve my fuel, as the round trip from my house is costly and I will do my part to help the future. Remeber, there is only 70-80 year supply of fossil fuel in the world. Where are the chiildren going to play?

        • pencil1959
          Maybe I m misunderstanding your comments, but please note that: (1) black carbon is not the basic building block of life; (2) carbon is an element that is
          Message 4 of 23 , Jun 4, 2006
          • 0 Attachment
            Maybe I'm misunderstanding your comments, but please note that:
            (1) "black carbon" is not the basic building block of life; (2)
            carbon is an element that is indeed the building block of life; (3)
            carbon in various molecular forms is "burned" by animals every day
            to form CO2; (4) CO2 is "recycled" by plants that convert it into
            sugars, cellulose, etc. that are then used by animals via #2, as
            well as used for building houses, burning to heat them, etc.; marine
            invertebrates fix a lot of CO2 by incorporation into carbonates,
            which we humans also use in various ways; (5) I haven't read any
            serious scientists proposing that we will exhaust the world's carbon
            supply by burning it up; (6) none of this is to dispute that CO2
            levels are at record highs, but simply to remind HREG readers that
            the chemistry of the carbon cycle is complex and varied because it
            IS the foundation of life--let's try to keep the basic facts
            straight.

            Robert Johnston


            --- In hreg@yahoogroups.com, "Edward Kramer" <onekindr@...> wrote:
            >
            > A geophysicist will argue that we are in a natural warming caused
            by changing sea levels, shift in plates and natural changes in the
            jet stream. Global warming might be a small cause of the natural
            warming trend, and the earth atmosphee can handle any Co2 gases that
            we humans combust. Electricity is suppose to make our life better,
            and if we do not find a sustainable source of electricity, life for
            our children and theirs will revert to prehistoric times. We are
            here for a very short time, we should only borrow from mother
            nature, not take. If we deplete the carbon resources,
            > what is the next generation going to do for the very basic
            building life of all matter-black carbon. Rather than utilizing the
            carbon for the solid production of physical goods, we are burning it
            up in combustion for electricity. Once its gone, its gone. If we do
            not wake up and make some serious changes in our lifestyles, how we
            use the exiting resources, the future does not look so bright the
            children.
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: Sarah Carriger
            > To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 6:53 PM
            > Subject: Re: [hreg] Roger Ebert reviews An Inconvenient Truth
            >
            >
            > I do not understand the comment of where the children are going
            to play. Same place they played before the turn of the 20th
            century - before oil production became a big business - outside. If
            fossil fuel is causing global warming, then isn't this a good thing
            that we run out of fossil fuels??? This planet and her inhabitants
            survived just fine without oil and we can do it again. It appears
            that only when the supply is indeed limited will there be any
            advances in alternative energy production, because at that point
            there will be no choice.
            >
            >
            > Edward Kramer wrote:
            > Thanks for the invite, but I would rather conserve my fuel, as
            the round trip from my house is costly and I will do my part to help
            the future. Remeber, there is only 70-80 year supply of fossil fuel
            in the world. Where are the chiildren going to play?
            >
            >
            >
            > SPONSORED LINKS Renewable energy Renewable energy resources
            Renewable energy sources
            > Renewable energy system Renewable energy news Houston
            texas
            >
            >
            > -------------------------------------------------------------------
            -----------
            > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
            >
            > a.. Visit your group "hreg" on the web.
            >
            > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > hreg-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
            of Service.
            >
            >
            > -------------------------------------------------------------------
            -----------
            >
          • Edward Kramer
            Maybe what I meant to say is carbon is in your every day life -from the tires on the car (are they rubber): or the PC housing, to the packageing of your
            Message 5 of 23 , Jun 5, 2006
            • 0 Attachment
              Maybe what I meant to say is carbon is in your every day life -from the tires on the car (are they rubber): or the PC housing, to the packageing of your groceries etc. That is our foundation of consumer products. Does a barrel of oil go for 100 % usage of  gasoline and petrol products? Next time you eat a chocolate bar, think of what is in that chocolate bar. The real treasure thats in  oil is the refined black carbon, the building block of a plastics. Plastics equate to consumption which equals growth. The delimea we face is how to conserve. If you watch PBS, even Chevron advertises that half the worlds energy supply is used up, the problem is how to effectively use the rest. For sure, it is going to be more expensive, and hence under a capitilistic system, the growth of other competing dollar entities are going to shrink. That is not a good thing at all. The city of Houston has not not taken heed to this warning. they are by far the largest user of electricity, yet have not one action plan to make changes. I heard they found some federal money and invested in a wind farm at King Ranch. Maybe they can open an annex buiding next door.
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 11:37 PM
              Subject: [hreg] Re: Roger Ebert reviews An Inconvenient Truth

              Maybe I'm misunderstanding your comments, but please note that: 
              (1) "black carbon" is not the basic building block of life; (2)
              carbon is an element that is indeed the building block of life; (3)
              carbon in various molecular forms is "burned" by animals every day
              to form CO2; (4) CO2 is "recycled" by plants that convert it into
              sugars, cellulose, etc. that are then used by animals via #2, as
              well as used for building houses, burning to heat them, etc.; marine
              invertebrates fix a lot of CO2 by incorporation into carbonates,
              which we humans also use in various ways; (5) I haven't read any
              serious scientists proposing that we will exhaust the world's carbon
              supply by burning it up; (6) none of this is to dispute that CO2
              levels are at record highs, but simply to remind HREG readers that
              the chemistry of the carbon cycle is complex and varied because it
              IS the foundation of life--let's try to keep the basic facts
              straight.

              Robert Johnston


              --- In hreg@yahoogroups.com, "Edward Kramer" <onekindr@...> wrote:
              >
              > A geophysicist will argue that we are in a natural warming caused
              by changing sea levels, shift in plates and natural changes in the
              jet stream. Global warming might be a small cause of the natural
              warming trend, and the earth atmosphee can handle any Co2 gases that
              we humans combust. Electricity is suppose to make our life better,
              and if we do not find a sustainable source of electricity, life for
              our children and theirs will revert to prehistoric times. We are
              here for a very short time, we should only borrow from mother
              nature, not take. If we deplete the carbon resources,
              > what is the next generation going to do for the very basic
              building life of all matter-black carbon. Rather than utilizing the
              carbon for the solid production of physical goods, we are burning it
              up in combustion for electricity. Once its gone, its gone. If we do
              not wake up and make some serious changes in our lifestyles, how we
              use the exiting resources, the future does not look so bright the
              children.
              >   ----- Original Message -----
              >   From: Sarah Carriger
              >   To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
              >   Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 6:53 PM
              >   Subject: Re: [hreg] Roger Ebert reviews An Inconvenient Truth
              >
              >
              >   I do not understand the comment of where the children are going
              to play.  Same place they played before the turn of the 20th
              century - before oil production became a big business - outside.  If
              fossil fuel is causing global warming, then isn't this a good thing
              that we run out of fossil fuels???  This planet and her inhabitants
              survived just fine without oil and we can do it again.  It appears
              that only when the supply is indeed limited will there be any
              advances in alternative energy production, because at that point
              there will be no choice.
              >
              >
              >   Edward Kramer wrote:
              >     Thanks for the invite, but I would rather conserve my fuel, as
              the round trip from my house is costly and I will do my part to help
              the future. Remeber, there is only 70-80 year supply of fossil fuel
              in the world. Where are the chiildren going to play?
              >
              >
              >
              >   SPONSORED LINKS Renewable energy  Renewable energy resources 
              Renewable energy sources 
              >         Renewable energy system  Renewable energy news  Houston
              texas 
              >
              >
              > -------------------------------------------------------------------
              -----------
              >   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
              >
              >     a..  Visit your group "hreg" on the web.
              >      
              >     b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              >      hreg-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >      
              >     c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
              of Service.
              >
              >
              > -------------------------------------------------------------------
              -----------
              >





            • will thurmond
              Edward I ll try to say this politely - please step off the soapbox. You have repeatedly made unsubstantiated statements on the HREG listserv, much to the
              Message 6 of 23 , Jun 5, 2006
              • 0 Attachment
                Edward

                I'll try to say this politely - please step off the soapbox. You have repeatedly made unsubstantiated statements on the HREG listserv, much to the chagrin of its members.   You should know what you're talking about before making declarations.  If you research what you wish to discuss before you enter the "soapbox zone", you will understand the issue.  You will also have factual, actual, information to substantiate your argument, and a solid platform to stand on. Please employ more facts and less conjecture and hyperbole in your entries.


                One example - you said "The city of Houston has not not taken heed to this warning. they are by far the largest user of electricity, yet have not one action plan to make changes."   Where did you get this information from Edward? An update to your statement in the p.s. will bring you current on this "declaration."

                I wish you all the best in expressing yourself as factually as you do actually.  You will find greater support for your ideas if they are defend-able.  Good luck.

                Will

                p.s.  here is some information on Houston's Alternative Energy initiatives that will update your last statement. You will learn there are "more than a few" Alt-Energy initiatives in Houston, contrary to your previous statements.   That is, if you have a real interest in Renewable Energy and Alt-Energy projects. Otherwise, you wouldn't be here, right?

                ========================================

                Alternative Energy Industry Guide to Houston
                http://www.houston.org/industryGuide/alternativeEnergy.asp

                As the Energy Capital of the World, Houston uses its spirit of innovation and collaboration to forge new ground across all aspects of the energy sector.

                Extensive research and development is underway on developing energy sources that are not based on the burning of fossil fuels or the splitting of atoms. These include geothermal, wind, tide, solar, ground source heat pumps, biofuels hydroelectric and hydrogen fuel cells. The Greater Houston Partnership is working with area organizations to develop and demonstrate advanced hydrogen and fuel cell technologies that will reduce our nation's dependency on oil, improve air quality and maintain the region's economic competitiveness.

                Houston has the tools and infrastructure in place to capitalize on this emerging sector of the energy industry.

                Industry Facts:

                • Texas is one of the top three states in the country in wind power potential
                • In 2003, Texas installed more wind power than the entire United States had in any other year
                • Many of Houston's school crossing lights are powered by solar energy

                Green Mountain Energy Case Study

                Green Mountain Energy is one of 11 electric retailers from whom Houstonians can purchase their electric power. Much of Green Mountain Energy's source for electricity is wind power.

                The Green Mountain Energy Wind Farm in Borden and Scurry counties in West Texas produces enough electricity to power 30,000 homes.

                Alternative Energy Downloadable Fact Sheet

                Who's Who in Houston Alternative Enery:

                Alternative Energy Resources:

                • Business Development Division of the Greater Houston Partnership
                • Houston Advanced Research Center
                • Houston Energy Collaborative
                • Houston Technology Center

                Energy Events in Houston

                Energy events bring together top talent, innovation and information.

                • Energy events in Houston include: the Offshore Technology Conference (OTC) and the Energy Venture Forum. Held annually in Houston, OTC is the energy industry's premier conference and exhibition focused on deepwater offshore technology. The 51,320 participants from 110 nations in 2005 represented OTC's highest attendance since 1985. The exhibition included 2,087 exhibiting companies, totaling more than 410,000 net square feet, filling all available indoor and outdoor space.
                • The Energy Venture Forum at Houston's Rice University introduces the most promising early-stage energy-related technology companies to leading venture capitalists. Participants hear about cutting-edge research and learn about emerging technology developments in traditional and alternative energy. Approximately 450 attendees participated in 2004.

                Energy Resources in Houston

                Where to go and what to do if you're thinking of starting, moving or expanding your business in Houston.

                Some fuel for thought: From oil and gas to chemical development and production, the 10-county Houston region is the center of all things energy. The region offers a solid energy and chemical foundation and a workforce skilled in meeting the sector's needs. The region's large concentration of oil expertise and experience is a magnet attracting more oil expertise and experience to the area.

                The Greater Houston Partnership has a unique place among business organizations. It combines opportunities for economic development, international business and public policy development. As the Houston region's primary business advocate, the Partnership helps keep businesses connected and works in their interests.

                Energy Facts

                • Forty-eight percent of the region's economic base employment is related to energy.
                • Houston is headquarters for 17 energy-related Fortune 500 companies.
                • Houston is home to the cutting-edge Offshore Technology Conference (OTC).
                • Houston houses more than 3,600 energy-related establishments.
                • Houston is home to 13 of the nation's 20 largest natural gas transmission companies.
                • Houston has nearly 600 exploration and production firms.
                • Houston has more than 170 pipeline operators.
                • Hundreds of manufacturers of energy-sector products call Houston home.

                In recent years, industry giants such as CITGO and Noble and smaller energy-related companies including Johnson Engineering and Hydralift, Inc. have relocated to Houston. Another 192 energy businesses have found Houston fertile ground for growth. In every case, expansions and relocations equal jobs for the Houston region.

                Houston Entrepreneurial Enterprises Facts:

                • The Houston region is home to more than 85,000 small businesses
                • Houston's dynamic economy, well-developed information technology sector, talented workforce, business-friendly environment, low costs of living and ease of doing business make it a natural magnet for entrepreneurs.
                • Houston ranked #2 on the Milken Institute's 2003 Best-Performing Cities Index
                • Site Selection magazine ranked the Houston-Baytown-Sugar Land metro area in the top 10 of Metro Areas for Investment in its March, 2004 issue
                • Houston has the lowest cost of living among the country's 24 largest metropolitan areas, according to the ACCRA Cost of Living Index for the first quarter of 2005
                • With no state personal income or state property taxes, Houston has one of the lowest per-family tax burdens of any major U.S. city

                Enterpreneurial Enterprises Resources:

                • The Greater Houston Partnership Emerging Business Council
                • The Greater Houston Partnership Business Development Division
                • Texas Economic Development Web site
                • Small Business Administration
                • University of Houston Small Business Development Center

                Enterpreneurial Enterprises Events:

                The Greater Houston Partnership Super Summit, held yearly, helps emerging businesses learn to better partner with established corporations


                ============================================

                Oil Companies, Experts Discuss Alternative Energy Development
                http://www.voanews.com/english/archive/2006-02/2006-02-07-voa1.cfm?CFID=14451546&CFTOKEN=59544590
                By Greg Flakus
                Houston 07 February 2006



                Around 1,800 oil and gas company executives, government energy ministers and other players in the world energy sector have gathered in Houston for a special emphasis on developing new sources of energy.

                The theme for this year's conference is "The New Prize: Energy's Next Era," and that encompasses everything from extraction of oil from Canada's extensive tar sands to development of solar power and ethanol.

                CERA Senior Advisor James Rosenfield is one of the three men who founded the conference in 1983. He tells VOA that many of the big oil companies represented here are already investing a lot of money in alternative energy programs.

                "A lot of the new economy of energy is going to be driven by the international oil companies such as Shell, BP and Exxon, who are really investing billions and billions of dollars in R and D (Research and Development) for new sources of supply, solar alternatives, fuel cells, distributed generation, really across the spectrum," Rosenfield said. "In the case of BP, their focus has been on electric power, actually, using a lot of their technology to look at alternative and renewable sources of electric power generation."

                Rosenfield says using CERAWeek to focus on such issues as alternative energy, non-conventional oil sources and conservation could have important consequences worldwide because participants represent every aspect of the international energy business.

                "We will have exploration and production companies, national oil companies, integrated oil companies, but also utilities, energy end users, consumers such as Dow and Boeing and some of the automotive companies as well and then the financial institutions that provide the capital, in many cases, for the industry," he said.

                Included in the mix of participants are representatives from several member nations of the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries, known as OPEC. One of the chief speakers at the opening ceremony Tuesday will be Saudi Arabia's Oil Minister, Ali Naimi.

                OPEC leaders have at times expressed concern over US and European efforts to develop alternative energy because it could divert investment from development of conventional energy sources. In an appearance here in Houston last year, the head of the Saudi oil company, Aramco, said his nation's vast oil reserves represent a reliable supply of energy that alternative energy programs are not likely to equal any time soon.

                But Rosenfield says he does not believe the Saudis are against development of other energy sources.

                "I think that the Saudis actually take a view that we are in this together, that we need to build the world's oil and energy supply, to build a stable and diversified supply base," he added. "We will hear from Mr. Naimi and what he has to say, but, while they are committed to an oil and hydrocarbon economy, they also recognize that over multi-decades we are going to be looking towards a lot of different sources of supply as well."

                In his state of the union address last week, President Bush called for programs that would lessen U.S. dependence on foreign sources of oil and gave special emphasis to the development of biofuels like ethanol. Brazil, which has a successful ethanol program based on fuel from sugar cane, is also represented at CERAWeek and Rosenfield says he expects a lot of discussion among participants about such programs.

                =====================================



                On 6/5/06, Edward Kramer <onekindr@...> wrote:
                Maybe what I meant to say is carbon is in your every day life -from the tires on the car (are they rubber): or the PC housing, to the packageing of your groceries etc. That is our foundation of consumer products. Does a barrel of oil go for 100 % usage of  gasoline and petrol products? Next time you eat a chocolate bar, think of what is in that chocolate bar. The real treasure thats in  oil is the refined black carbon, the building block of a plastics. Plastics equate to consumption which equals growth. The delimea we face is how to conserve. If you watch PBS, even Chevron advertises that half the worlds energy supply is used up, the problem is how to effectively use the rest. For sure, it is going to be more expensive, and hence under a capitilistic system, the growth of other competing dollar entities are going to shrink. That is not a good thing at all. The city of Houston has not not taken heed to this warning. they are by far the largest user of electricity, yet have not one action plan to make changes. I heard they found some federal money and invested in a wind farm at King Ranch. Maybe they can open an annex buiding next door.
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: pencil1959
                Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 11:37 PM
                Subject: [hreg] Re: Roger Ebert reviews An Inconvenient Truth

                Maybe I'm misunderstanding your comments, but please note that: 
                (1) "black carbon" is not the basic building block of life; (2)
                carbon is an element that is indeed the building block of life; (3)
                carbon in various molecular forms is "burned" by animals every day
                to form CO2; (4) CO2 is "recycled" by plants that convert it into
                sugars, cellulose, etc. that are then used by animals via #2, as
                well as used for building houses, burning to heat them, etc.; marine
                invertebrates fix a lot of CO2 by incorporation into carbonates,
                which we humans also use in various ways; (5) I haven't read any
                serious scientists proposing that we will exhaust the world's carbon
                supply by burning it up; (6) none of this is to dispute that CO2
                levels are at record highs, but simply to remind HREG readers that
                the chemistry of the carbon cycle is complex and varied because it
                IS the foundation of life--let's try to keep the basic facts
                straight.

                Robert Johnston


                --- In hreg@yahoogroups.com, "Edward Kramer" <onekindr@...> wrote:
                >
                > A geophysicist will argue that we are in a natural warming caused
                by changing sea levels, shift in plates and natural changes in the
                jet stream. Global warming might be a small cause of the natural
                warming trend, and the earth atmosphee can handle any Co2 gases that
                we humans combust. Electricity is suppose to make our life better,
                and if we do not find a sustainable source of electricity, life for
                our children and theirs will revert to prehistoric times. We are
                here for a very short time, we should only borrow from mother
                nature, not take. If we deplete the carbon resources,
                > what is the next generation going to do for the very basic
                building life of all matter-black carbon. Rather than utilizing the
                carbon for the solid production of physical goods, we are burning it
                up in combustion for electricity. Once its gone, its gone. If we do
                not wake up and make some serious changes in our lifestyles, how we
                use the exiting resources, the future does not look so bright the
                children.
                >   ----- Original Message -----
                >   From: Sarah Carriger
                >   To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                >   Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 6:53 PM
                >   Subject: Re: [hreg] Roger Ebert reviews An Inconvenient Truth
                >
                >
                >   I do not understand the comment of where the children are going
                to play.  Same place they played before the turn of the 20th
                century - before oil production became a big business - outside.  If
                fossil fuel is causing global warming, then isn't this a good thing
                that we run out of fossil fuels???  This planet and her inhabitants
                survived just fine without oil and we can do it again.  It appears
                that only when the supply is indeed limited will there be any
                advances in alternative energy production, because at that point
                there will be no choice.
                >
                >
                >   Edward Kramer wrote:
                >     Thanks for the invite, but I would rather conserve my fuel, as
                the round trip from my house is costly and I will do my part to help
                the future. Remeber, there is only 70-80 year supply of fossil fuel
                in the world. Where are the chiildren going to play?
                >
                >
                >
                >   SPONSORED LINKS Renewable energy  Renewable energy resources 
                Renewable energy sources 
                >         Renewable energy system  Renewable energy news  Houston
                texas 
                >
                >
                > -------------------------------------------------------------------
                -----------
                >   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                >
                >     a..  Visit your group "hreg" on the web.
                >      
                >     b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                >      hreg-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                >      
                >     c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
                of Service.
                >
                >
                > -------------------------------------------------------------------
                -----------
                >







                SPONSORED LINKS
                Renewable energy Renewable energy resources Renewable energy sources
                Renewable energy system Renewable energy news Houston texas


                YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS




              • Paul Archer
                ... [massive snippage] Will, I wholeheartedly agree with you in that *whoever* is speaking in a forum like this should have his/her facts together first. And I
                Message 7 of 23 , Jun 5, 2006
                • 0 Attachment
                  7:00am, will thurmond wrote:

                  > Edward
                  >
                  > I'll try to say this politely - please step off the soapbox. You have
                  > repeatedly made unsubstantiated statements on the HREG listserv, much to the
                  > chagrin of its members. You should know what you're talking about before
                  > making declarations. If you research what you wish to discuss before you
                  > enter the "soapbox zone", you will understand the issue. You will also have
                  > factual, actual, information to substantiate your argument, and a solid
                  > platform to stand on. Please employ more facts and less conjecture and
                  > hyperbole in your entries.
                  >
                  > One example - you said "The city of Houston has not not taken heed to this
                  > warning. they are by far the largest user of electricity, yet have not one
                  > action plan to make changes." Where did you get this information from
                  > Edward? An update to your statement in the p.s. will bring you current on
                  > this "declaration."
                  >
                  > I wish you all the best in expressing yourself as factually as you do
                  > actually. You will find greater support for your ideas if they are
                  > defend-able. Good luck.
                  >
                  > Will
                  >
                  > p.s. here is some information on Houston's Alternative Energy initiatives
                  > that will update your last statement. You will learn there are "more than a
                  > few" Alt-Energy initiatives in Houston, contrary to your previous
                  > statements. That is, if you have a real interest in Renewable Energy and
                  > Alt-Energy projects. Otherwise, you wouldn't be here, right?
                  >
                  [massive snippage]

                  Will, I wholeheartedly agree with you in that *whoever* is speaking in a
                  forum like this should have his/her facts together first.
                  And I agree that Edward did not back up his claim that "[t]he City of
                  Houston ...have not one action plan to make changes." However, I think you
                  misread his statement, as the the information you included (which I've
                  snipped for space) did not counter that charge.
                  The specific claim was, I believe, that the City of Houston (that is the
                  munincipal government, not the inhabitants of Houston as a whole), which
                  most likely is the single largest consumer of electricity in the city, has
                  not taken action to reduce its energy usage. Your included information did
                  mention solar-powered school "crossing" lights (although I think it meant
                  school zone lights). I've seen these and similar lights all over the
                  country. They do save electricity, but considering how much light they put
                  out (a blink or two a second for two hours a day 5 days a week, 9 months a
                  year), I would guess that the primary motivation for them is to save
                  installation costs rather than power.

                  Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is just that I think Edward does bring
                  up a good point: I don't know *what* the City of Houston is up to as far as
                  energy consumption and conservation, but I'd like to find out.


                  Paul
                • chasmauch@aol.com
                  It seems pretty obvious to me that there is a lot of wasted energy in Houston, although I have no idea exactly how much. Here are a couple of things I have
                  Message 8 of 23 , Jun 5, 2006
                  • 0 Attachment
                    It seems pretty obvious to me that there is a lot of wasted energy in Houston, although I have no idea exactly how much. Here are a couple of things I have long wondered about:
                     
                    1.  You can look at the city's skyline at any hour - say 2am - and all the big buildings are lit up like Christmas trees. They have to be lit during the day when people are working there, but why all night too - in essence 24 hours per day? I know the cleaning crews are at work but presumably they only do one or two floors at a time, after which it seems they could turn out the lights and go to the next floor. I have heard that it's cheaper (considering bulb life) to leave a florescent light on all the time than it is to turn it on and off - is that the reason they do it? And might that have been true in the days of cheap energy but no longer so?
                     
                    Same goes with computers - I have heard that they use a surprising amount of energy when you leave them on all the time (as most folks like me do) because for some reason it is harmful to turn them on and off every day. There are millions of them around these days in both offices and residences.
                     
                    I realize the buildings and most of the computers do not belong to the city - they are privately owned, but still the city could provide leadership in doing something about fairly simple things like that (and various other things) if they just gathered up some data and publicized it. Or are these two items of much less importance? I admit I don't have the facts.
                     
                    Charlie Mauch
                  • Bashir Syed
                    I have been reading this discussion after returning from China, previous weekend. As a physicist who spent two years working for Rockwell International
                    Message 9 of 23 , Jun 5, 2006
                    • 0 Attachment
                      I have been reading this discussion after returning from China, previous weekend. As a physicist who  spent two years working for Rockwell International Science Center in early seventies incharge of the instrumentation to collect Air Pollution data under an EPA contract. We must understand the Solar Energy which comes from SUN in the form of Electromagentic Waves (light is a part of visible portion of the electromagnetic waves of the electromagnetic waves spectrum) called Photons. The energy of the photons according to deBroglie, the energy of photons is proportional to the frequency of the photons (or inversely proportional to the wavelength of photons) striking matter (solid, liquid, and gas). This energy is transfered to the receiving medium atmosphere and earth. Our atmosphere is composed of many gases (which abosrb energy from these photons) and solid particulate matter (which scatters radiation).  When we look at the Irradiance of incident solar radiation plotted against the wavelength of photons, we find many absorption bands characteristic of various components of our atmosphere (Ozone, water vapor, oxygen, and carbon dioxide). It turns out that in the case of Carbon-dioxide, this absorbed energy appears in the form of Thermal energy or heat which is transfered to other molecules in the air. Thus the larger the number of carbon dioxide molecules are present in the atmosphere the more heat transfer takes place which in turn apears as increase in the temperature of materials in contact with air on earth. Thus the earth warming is a reality and not fiction. The increase of Carbon-dioxide translates into cummulative effect of all molecules which is observed as increased thermal energy. Carbon dioxide has absorption bands in the region of about 1.8 microns  and beyond 2.4 microns  of wavelength ( one micron = 0.000,001 meter). Ozone absorbs photons in the UV range, and any depletion of Ozone translates into transmission of Photons of Ultra-Violet (UV) which interacts with the cells of our skin, and long exposure of UV translates into Carecenoma or Skin Cancer.
                      Unless people become aware of this phenomenon based on laws of Physics, which are universal in nature (and do not obey the laws of Oil industry), the scientists are not talking rubbish as often conveyed in the media to confuse citizens/tax-payers.
                      There was an article published in "IEEE Spectrum magazine" regarding the RF pollution caused by Cellular Phone Networks, in December 2002 issue pertaining to interaction of radiation emanating from the cell phones with brain, which penetrates to a depth of about three inches inside our skull/brain. As we know that RF energy interacts with cells which contain water molecules. The high frequencies used  by most Cell phones caused transfer of energy in the form of heat to water molecules, causing damage to cells in the brain tissue, which may eventually take the shape of tumors in the brain if a person is not careful about the time spent on the Cell phones (the effects of any kind of radiation are cummulative).
                       
                      Here is something which will startle you. During the 1991 Gulf War, our government blamed Iraqi troops for setting up the "oil well fires in Kuwait," but the truth is far from this PR job. According to an article "Why Are Data from Kuwait Being Withheld?" [by John Horgan, Scientific American, page 20, July 1991] The  Bush administration in 1991, ordered NOAA to withhold  Satellite data being forwarded to EPA, and later on when this matter was exposed by the media they had the same attitude of coverup using the excuse "the task force is supposed to give information to Kuwait and Saudi Arabia first" before considering it for release to US scientists. I would recommend all to read this one page article in Scientific American in order to learn how politics plays the role to spread disinformation in order to sway public opinion, by the politicians supported by their industrial supporters/constituents.   
                       
                      Bashir A. Syed
                      Member: ASES, ISES, APS, IEEE, UCS, New York Academy of Sciences
                      Member of Radiation Safety Committee NASA/JSC (1995-2003).
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 7:28 AM
                      Subject: Re: [hreg] Re: Roger Ebert reviews An Inconvenient Truth

                      Maybe what I meant to say is carbon is in your every day life -from the tires on the car (are they rubber): or the PC housing, to the packageing of your groceries etc. That is our foundation of consumer products. Does a barrel of oil go for 100 % usage of  gasoline and petrol products? Next time you eat a chocolate bar, think of what is in that chocolate bar. The real treasure thats in  oil is the refined black carbon, the building block of a plastics. Plastics equate to consumption which equals growth. The delimea we face is how to conserve. If you watch PBS, even Chevron advertises that half the worlds energy supply is used up, the problem is how to effectively use the rest. For sure, it is going to be more expensive, and hence under a capitilistic system, the growth of other competing dollar entities are going to shrink. That is not a good thing at all. The city of Houston has not not taken heed to this warning. they are by far the largest user of electricity, yet have not one action plan to make changes. I heard they found some federal money and invested in a wind farm at King Ranch. Maybe they can open an annex buiding next door.
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 11:37 PM
                      Subject: [hreg] Re: Roger Ebert reviews An Inconvenient Truth

                      Maybe I'm misunderstanding your comments, but please note that: 
                      (1) "black carbon" is not the basic building block of life; (2)
                      carbon is an element that is indeed the building block of life; (3)
                      carbon in various molecular forms is "burned" by animals every day
                      to form CO2; (4) CO2 is "recycled" by plants that convert it into
                      sugars, cellulose, etc. that are then used by animals via #2, as
                      well as used for building houses, burning to heat them, etc.; marine
                      invertebrates fix a lot of CO2 by incorporation into carbonates,
                      which we humans also use in various ways; (5) I haven't read any
                      serious scientists proposing that we will exhaust the world's carbon
                      supply by burning it up; (6) none of this is to dispute that CO2
                      levels are at record highs, but simply to remind HREG readers that
                      the chemistry of the carbon cycle is complex and varied because it
                      IS the foundation of life--let's try to keep the basic facts
                      straight.

                      Robert Johnston


                      --- In hreg@yahoogroups.com, "Edward Kramer" <onekindr@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > A geophysicist will argue that we are in a natural warming caused
                      by changing sea levels, shift in plates and natural changes in the
                      jet stream. Global warming might be a small cause of the natural
                      warming trend, and the earth atmosphee can handle any Co2 gases that
                      we humans combust. Electricity is suppose to make our life better,
                      and if we do not find a sustainable source of electricity, life for
                      our children and theirs will revert to prehistoric times. We are
                      here for a very short time, we should only borrow from mother
                      nature, not take. If we deplete the carbon resources,
                      > what is the next generation going to do for the very basic
                      building life of all matter-black carbon. Rather than utilizing the
                      carbon for the solid production of physical goods, we are burning it
                      up in combustion for electricity. Once its gone, its gone. If we do
                      not wake up and make some serious changes in our lifestyles, how we
                      use the exiting resources, the future does not look so bright the
                      children.
                      >   ----- Original Message -----
                      >   From: Sarah Carriger
                      >   To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                      >   Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 6:53 PM
                      >   Subject: Re: [hreg] Roger Ebert reviews An Inconvenient Truth
                      >
                      >
                      >   I do not understand the comment of where the children are going
                      to play.  Same place they played before the turn of the 20th
                      century - before oil production became a big business - outside.  If
                      fossil fuel is causing global warming, then isn't this a good thing
                      that we run out of fossil fuels???  This planet and her inhabitants
                      survived just fine without oil and we can do it again.  It appears
                      that only when the supply is indeed limited will there be any
                      advances in alternative energy production, because at that point
                      there will be no choice.
                      >
                      >
                      >   Edward Kramer wrote:
                      >     Thanks for the invite, but I would rather conserve my fuel, as
                      the round trip from my house is costly and I will do my part to help
                      the future. Remeber, there is only 70-80 year supply of fossil fuel
                      in the world. Where are the chiildren going to play?
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >   SPONSORED LINKS Renewable energy  Renewable energy resources 
                      Renewable energy sources 
                      >         Renewable energy system  Renewable energy news  Houston
                      texas 
                      >
                      >
                      > -------------------------------------------------------------------
                      -----------
                      >   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                      >
                      >     a..  Visit your group "hreg" on the web.
                      >      
                      >     b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                      >      hreg-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      >      
                      >     c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
                      of Service.
                      >
                      >
                      > -------------------------------------------------------------------
                      -----------
                      >





                    • Edward Kramer
                      Will, Why does the city of Austin have a rebate plan, allocated from the tax revenues it receives from electric bills to promote the installation of PV
                      Message 10 of 23 , Jun 5, 2006
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Will, 
                         
                           Why does the city of Austin have a rebate plan, allocated from the tax revenues it receives from electric bills to promote the installation of PV systems.?  why dioes Walgreen does install 122 of their stores in California with PV systems. Why does Whole Foods Markets, based out of Austin , with four stores in Houston install PV systems in their California stores and "green" it up on their web site.Could it be they are good stewards of the environment, or that they are taking advantage of Federal and local financial (rebate) incentives to add solar. What incentive plan does the city of Houston have? One nice thing about this forum is that we exchange ideas and might come to some important dialogue.  Just briefing thru your add on I see a lot of wind farms. They are nice, but where are they located? West Texas is nie for wind farms, but that is a long way from my home.
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 8:00 AM
                        Subject: Re: [hreg] Re: Roger Ebert reviews An Inconvenient Truth

                        Edward

                        I'll try to say this politely - please step off the soapbox. You have repeatedly made unsubstantiated statements on the HREG listserv, much to the chagrin of its members.   You should know what you're talking about before making declarations.  If you research what you wish to discuss before you enter the "soapbox zone", you will understand the issue.  You will also have factual, actual, information to substantiate your argument, and a solid platform to stand on. Please employ more facts and less conjecture and hyperbole in your entries.


                        One example - you said "The city of Houston has not not taken heed to this warning. they are by far the largest user of electricity, yet have not one action plan to make changes."   Where did you get this information from Edward? An update to your statement in the p.s. will bring you current on this "declaration."

                        I wish you all the best in expressing yourself as factually as you do actually.  You will find greater support for your ideas if they are defend-able.  Good luck.

                        Will

                        p.s.  here is some information on Houston's Alternative Energy initiatives that will update your last statement. You will learn there are "more than a few" Alt-Energy initiatives in Houston, contrary to your previous statements.   That is, if you have a real interest in Renewable Energy and Alt-Energy projects. Otherwise, you wouldn't be here, right?

                        ========================================

                        Alternative Energy Industry Guide to Houston
                        http://www.houston.org/industryGuide/alternativeEnergy.asp

                        As the Energy Capital of the World, Houston uses its spirit of innovation and collaboration to forge new ground across all aspects of the energy sector.

                        Extensive research and development is underway on developing energy sources that are not based on the burning of fossil fuels or the splitting of atoms. These include geothermal, wind, tide, solar, ground source heat pumps, biofuels hydroelectric and hydrogen fuel cells. The Greater Houston Partnership is working with area organizations to develop and demonstrate advanced hydrogen and fuel cell technologies that will reduce our nation's dependency on oil, improve air quality and maintain the region's economic competitiveness.

                        Houston has the tools and infrastructure in place to capitalize on this emerging sector of the energy industry.

                        Industry Facts:

                        • Texas is one of the top three states in the country in wind power potential
                        • In 2003, Texas installed more wind power than the entire United States had in any other year
                        • Many of Houston's school crossing lights are powered by solar energy

                        Green Mountain Energy Case Study

                        Green Mountain Energy is one of 11 electric retailers from whom Houstonians can purchase their electric power. Much of Green Mountain Energy's source for electricity is wind power.

                        The Green Mountain Energy Wind Farm in Borden and Scurry counties in West Texas produces enough electricity to power 30,000 homes.

                        Alternative Energy Downloadable Fact Sheet

                        Who's Who in Houston Alternative Enery:

                        Alternative Energy Resources:

                        • Business Development Division of the Greater Houston Partnership
                        • Houston Advanced Research Center
                        • Houston Energy Collaborative
                        • Houston Technology Center

                        Energy Events in Houston

                        Energy events bring together top talent, innovation and information.

                        • Energy events in Houston include: the Offshore Technology Conference (OTC) and the Energy Venture Forum. Held annually in Houston, OTC is the energy industry's premier conference and exhibition focused on deepwater offshore technology. The 51,320 participants from 110 nations in 2005 represented OTC's highest attendance since 1985. The exhibition included 2,087 exhibiting companies, totaling more than 410,000 net square feet, filling all available indoor and outdoor space.
                        • The Energy Venture Forum at Houston's Rice University introduces the most promising early-stage energy-related technology companies to leading venture capitalists. Participants hear about cutting-edge research and learn about emerging technology developments in traditional and alternative energy. Approximately 450 attendees participated in 2004.

                        Energy Resources in Houston

                        Where to go and what to do if you're thinking of starting, moving or expanding your business in Houston.

                        Some fuel for thought: From oil and gas to chemical development and production, the 10-county Houston region is the center of all things energy. The region offers a solid energy and chemical foundation and a workforce skilled in meeting the sector's needs. The region's large concentration of oil expertise and experience is a magnet attracting more oil expertise and experience to the area.

                        The Greater Houston Partnership has a unique place among business organizations. It combines opportunities for economic development, international business and public policy development. As the Houston region's primary business advocate, the Partnership helps keep businesses connected and works in their interests.

                        Energy Facts

                        • Forty-eight percent of the region's economic base employment is related to energy.
                        • Houston is headquarters for 17 energy-related Fortune 500 companies.
                        • Houston is home to the cutting-edge Offshore Technology Conference (OTC).
                        • Houston houses more than 3,600 energy-related establishments.
                        • Houston is home to 13 of the nation's 20 largest natural gas transmission companies.
                        • Houston has nearly 600 exploration and production firms.
                        • Houston has more than 170 pipeline operators.
                        • Hundreds of manufacturers of energy-sector products call Houston home.

                        In recent years, industry giants such as CITGO and Noble and smaller energy-related companies including Johnson Engineering and Hydralift, Inc. have relocated to Houston. Another 192 energy businesses have found Houston fertile ground for growth. In every case, expansions and relocations equal jobs for the Houston region.

                        Houston Entrepreneurial Enterprises Facts:

                        • The Houston region is home to more than 85,000 small businesses
                        • Houston's dynamic economy, well-developed information technology sector, talented workforce, business-friendly environment, low costs of living and ease of doing business make it a natural magnet for entrepreneurs.
                        • Houston ranked #2 on the Milken Institute's 2003 Best-Performing Cities Index
                        • Site Selection magazine ranked the Houston-Baytown-Sugar Land metro area in the top 10 of Metro Areas for Investment in its March, 2004 issue
                        • Houston has the lowest cost of living among the country's 24 largest metropolitan areas, according to the ACCRA Cost of Living Index for the first quarter of 2005
                        • With no state personal income or state property taxes, Houston has one of the lowest per-family tax burdens of any major U.S. city

                        Enterpreneurial Enterprises Resources:

                        • The Greater Houston Partnership Emerging Business Council
                        • The Greater Houston Partnership Business Development Division
                        • Texas Economic Development Web site
                        • Small Business Administration
                        • University of Houston Small Business Development Center

                        Enterpreneurial Enterprises Events:

                        The Greater Houston Partnership Super Summit, held yearly, helps emerging businesses learn to better partner with established corporations


                        ============================================

                        Oil Companies, Experts Discuss Alternative Energy Development
                        http://www.voanews.com/english/archive/2006-02/2006-02-07-voa1.cfm?CFID=14451546&CFTOKEN=59544590
                        By Greg Flakus
                        Houston 07 February 2006



                        Around 1,800 oil and gas company executives, government energy ministers and other players in the world energy sector have gathered in Houston for a special emphasis on developing new sources of energy.

                        The theme for this year's conference is "The New Prize: Energy's Next Era," and that encompasses everything from extraction of oil from Canada's extensive tar sands to development of solar power and ethanol.

                        CERA Senior Advisor James Rosenfield is one of the three men who founded the conference in 1983. He tells VOA that many of the big oil companies represented here are already investing a lot of money in alternative energy programs.

                        "A lot of the new economy of energy is going to be driven by the international oil companies such as Shell, BP and Exxon, who are really investing billions and billions of dollars in R and D (Research and Development) for new sources of supply, solar alternatives, fuel cells, distributed generation, really across the spectrum," Rosenfield said. "In the case of BP, their focus has been on electric power, actually, using a lot of their technology to look at alternative and renewable sources of electric power generation."

                        Rosenfield says using CERAWeek to focus on such issues as alternative energy, non-conventional oil sources and conservation could have important consequences worldwide because participants represent every aspect of the international energy business.

                        "We will have exploration and production companies, national oil companies, integrated oil companies, but also utilities, energy end users, consumers such as Dow and Boeing and some of the automotive companies as well and then the financial institutions that provide the capital, in many cases, for the industry," he said.

                        Included in the mix of participants are representatives from several member nations of the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries, known as OPEC. One of the chief speakers at the opening ceremony Tuesday will be Saudi Arabia's Oil Minister, Ali Naimi.

                        OPEC leaders have at times expressed concern over US and European efforts to develop alternative energy because it could divert investment from development of conventional energy sources. In an appearance here in Houston last year, the head of the Saudi oil company, Aramco, said his nation's vast oil reserves represent a reliable supply of energy that alternative energy programs are not likely to equal any time soon.

                        But Rosenfield says he does not believe the Saudis are against development of other energy sources.

                        "I think that the Saudis actually take a view that we are in this together, that we need to build the world's oil and energy supply, to build a stable and diversified supply base," he added. "We will hear from Mr. Naimi and what he has to say, but, while they are committed to an oil and hydrocarbon economy, they also recognize that over multi-decades we are going to be looking towards a lot of different sources of supply as well."

                        In his state of the union address last week, President Bush called for programs that would lessen U.S. dependence on foreign sources of oil and gave special emphasis to the development of biofuels like ethanol. Brazil, which has a successful ethanol program based on fuel from sugar cane, is also represented at CERAWeek and Rosenfield says he expects a lot of discussion among participants about such programs.

                        =====================================



                        On 6/5/06, Edward Kramer <onekindr@...> wrote:
                        Maybe what I meant to say is carbon is in your every day life -from the tires on the car (are they rubber): or the PC housing, to the packageing of your groceries etc. That is our foundation of consumer products. Does a barrel of oil go for 100 % usage of  gasoline and petrol products? Next time you eat a chocolate bar, think of what is in that chocolate bar. The real treasure thats in  oil is the refined black carbon, the building block of a plastics. Plastics equate to consumption which equals growth. The delimea we face is how to conserve. If you watch PBS, even Chevron advertises that half the worlds energy supply is used up, the problem is how to effectively use the rest. For sure, it is going to be more expensive, and hence under a capitilistic system, the growth of other competing dollar entities are going to shrink. That is not a good thing at all. The city of Houston has not not taken heed to this warning. they are by far the largest user of electricity, yet have not one action plan to make changes. I heard they found some federal money and invested in a wind farm at King Ranch. Maybe they can open an annex buiding next door.
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 11:37 PM
                        Subject: [hreg] Re: Roger Ebert reviews An Inconvenient Truth

                        Maybe I'm misunderstanding your comments, but please note that: 
                        (1) "black carbon" is not the basic building block of life; (2)
                        carbon is an element that is indeed the building block of life; (3)
                        carbon in various molecular forms is "burned" by animals every day
                        to form CO2; (4) CO2 is "recycled" by plants that convert it into
                        sugars, cellulose, etc. that are then used by animals via #2, as
                        well as used for building houses, burning to heat them, etc.; marine
                        invertebrates fix a lot of CO2 by incorporation into carbonates,
                        which we humans also use in various ways; (5) I haven't read any
                        serious scientists proposing that we will exhaust the world's carbon
                        supply by burning it up; (6) none of this is to dispute that CO2
                        levels are at record highs, but simply to remind HREG readers that
                        the chemistry of the carbon cycle is complex and varied because it
                        IS the foundation of life--let's try to keep the basic facts
                        straight.

                        Robert Johnston


                        --- In hreg@yahoogroups.com, "Edward Kramer" <onekindr@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > A geophysicist will argue that we are in a natural warming caused
                        by changing sea levels, shift in plates and natural changes in the
                        jet stream. Global warming might be a small cause of the natural
                        warming trend, and the earth atmosphee can handle any Co2 gases that
                        we humans combust. Electricity is suppose to make our life better,
                        and if we do not find a sustainable source of electricity, life for
                        our children and theirs will revert to prehistoric times. We are
                        here for a very short time, we should only borrow from mother
                        nature, not take. If we deplete the carbon resources,
                        > what is the next generation going to do for the very basic
                        building life of all matter-black carbon. Rather than utilizing the
                        carbon for the solid production of physical goods, we are burning it
                        up in combustion for electricity. Once its gone, its gone. If we do
                        not wake up and make some serious changes in our lifestyles, how we
                        use the exiting resources, the future does not look so bright the
                        children.
                        >   ----- Original Message -----
                        >   From: Sarah Carriger
                        >   To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                        >   Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 6:53 PM
                        >   Subject: Re: [hreg] Roger Ebert reviews An Inconvenient Truth
                        >
                        >
                        >   I do not understand the comment of where the children are going
                        to play.  Same place they played before the turn of the 20th
                        century - before oil production became a big business - outside.  If
                        fossil fuel is causing global warming, then isn't this a good thing
                        that we run out of fossil fuels???  This planet and her inhabitants
                        survived just fine without oil and we can do it again.  It appears
                        that only when the supply is indeed limited will there be any
                        advances in alternative energy production, because at that point
                        there will be no choice.
                        >
                        >
                        >   Edward Kramer wrote:
                        >     Thanks for the invite, but I would rather conserve my fuel, as
                        the round trip from my house is costly and I will do my part to help
                        the future. Remeber, there is only 70-80 year supply of fossil fuel
                        in the world. Where are the chiildren going to play?
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >   SPONSORED LINKS Renewable energy  Renewable energy resources 
                        Renewable energy sources 
                        >         Renewable energy system  Renewable energy news  Houston
                        texas 
                        >
                        >
                        > -------------------------------------------------------------------
                        -----------
                        >   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                        >
                        >     a..  Visit your group "hreg" on the web.
                        >      
                        >     b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                        >      hreg-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                        >      
                        >     c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
                        of Service.
                        >
                        >
                        > -------------------------------------------------------------------
                        -----------
                        >







                        SPONSORED LINKS
                        Renewable energyRenewable energy resourcesRenewable energy sources
                        Renewable energy systemRenewable energy newsHouston texas


                        YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS




                      • Steven Shepard
                        I think a better question for us to ask is why do these corporations purchase and install renewable energy in other locations but not in Texas? The short
                        Message 11 of 23 , Jun 5, 2006
                        • 0 Attachment
                          I think a better question for us to ask is why do these corporations purchase and install renewable energy in other locations but not in Texas? 
                           
                          The short answer is because utility prices are still relatively low here in Texas and not as high as they are in California and other states.  This is especially true where the taxpayer subsidizes the cost of electricity for municipally owned utilities and rural co-ops.  This subsidy artificially keeps the price of electricity low for large commercial consumers. 
                           
                          The irony is that if a poor electric consumer and taxpayer cannot pay their bill these subsidized utilities will not hesitate to disconnect the user's power.  However, if and when large commercial consumers are late with their payments the utilities will bend over backwards to accomodate them. 



                           
                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: Edward Kramer
                          Sent: Jun 5, 2006 11:25 AM
                          To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [hreg] Re: Roger Ebert reviews An Inconvenient Truth

                          Will, 
                           
                             Why does the city of Austin have a rebate plan, allocated from the tax revenues it receives from electric bills to promote the installation of PV systems.?  why dioes Walgreen does install 122 of their stores in California with PV systems. Why does Whole Foods Markets, based out of Austin , with four stores in Houston install PV systems in their California stores and "green" it up on their web site.Could it be they are good stewards of the environment, or that they are taking advantage of Federal and local financial (rebate) incentives to add solar. What incentive plan does the city of Houston have? One nice thing about this forum is that we exchange ideas and might come to some important dialogue.  Just briefing thru your add on I see a lot of wind farms. They are nice, but where are they located? West Texas is nie for wind farms, but that is a long way from my home.
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 8:00 AM
                          Subject: Re: [hreg] Re: Roger Ebert reviews An Inconvenient Truth

                          Edward

                          I'll try to say this politely - please step off the soapbox. You have repeatedly made unsubstantiated statements on the HREG listserv, much to the chagrin of its members.   You should know what you're talking about before making declarations.  If you research what you wish to discuss before you enter the "soapbox zone", you will understand the issue.  You will also have factual, actual, information to substantiate your argument, and a solid platform to stand on. Please employ more facts and less conjecture and hyperbole in your entries.


                          One example - you said "The city of Houston has not not taken heed to this warning. they are by far the largest user of electricity, yet have not one action plan to make changes."   Where did you get this information from Edward? An update to your statement in the p.s. will bring you current on this "declaration."

                          I wish you all the best in expressing yourself as factually as you do actually.  You will find greater support for your ideas if they are defend-able.  Good luck.

                          Will

                          p.s.  here is some information on Houston's Alternative Energy initiatives that will update your last statement. You will learn there are "more than a few" Alt-Energy initiatives in Houston, contrary to your previous statements.   That is, if you have a real interest in Renewable Energy and Alt-Energy projects. Otherwise, you wouldn't be here, right?

                          ========================================

                          Alternative Energy Industry Guide to Houston
                          http://www.houston.org/industryGuide/alternativeEnergy.asp

                          As the Energy Capital of the World, Houston uses its spirit of innovation and collaboration to forge new ground across all aspects of the energy sector.

                          Extensive research and development is underway on developing energy sources that are not based on the burning of fossil fuels or the splitting of atoms. These include geothermal, wind, tide, solar, ground source heat pumps, biofuels hydroelectric and hydrogen fuel cells. The Greater Houston Partnership is working with area organizations to develop and demonstrate advanced hydrogen and fuel cell technologies that will reduce our nation's dependency on oil, improve air quality and maintain the region's economic competitiveness.

                          Houston has the tools and infrastructure in place to capitalize on this emerging sector of the energy industry.

                          Industry Facts:

                          • Texas is one of the top three states in the country in wind power potential
                          • In 2003, Texas installed more wind power than the entire United States had in any other year
                          • Many of Houston's school crossing lights are powered by solar energy

                          Green Mountain Energy Case Study

                          Green Mountain Energy is one of 11 electric retailers from whom Houstonians can purchase their electric power. Much of Green Mountain Energy's source for electricity is wind power.

                          The Green Mountain Energy Wind Farm in Borden and Scurry counties in West Texas produces enough electricity to power 30,000 homes.

                          Alternative Energy Downloadable Fact Sheet

                          Who's Who in Houston Alternative Enery:

                          Alternative Energy Resources:

                          • Business Development Division of the Greater Houston Partnership
                          • Houston Advanced Research Center
                          • Houston Energy Collaborative
                          • Houston Technology Center

                          Energy Events in Houston

                          Energy events bring together top talent, innovation and information.

                          • Energy events in Houston include: the Offshore Technology Conference (OTC) and the Energy Venture Forum. Held annually in Houston, OTC is the energy industry's premier conference and exhibition focused on deepwater offshore technology. The 51,320 participants from 110 nations in 2005 represented OTC's highest attendance since 1985. The exhibition included 2,087 exhibiting companies, totaling more than 410,000 net square feet, filling all available indoor and outdoor space.
                          • The Energy Venture Forum at Houston's Rice University introduces the most promising early-stage energy-related technology companies to leading venture capitalists. Participants hear about cutting-edge research and learn about emerging technology developments in traditional and alternative energy. Approximately 450 attendees participated in 2004.

                          Energy Resources in Houston

                          Where to go and what to do if you're thinking of starting, moving or expanding your business in Houston.

                          Some fuel for thought: From oil and gas to chemical development and production, the 10-county Houston region is the center of all things energy. The region offers a solid energy and chemical foundation and a workforce skilled in meeting the sector's needs. The region's large concentration of oil expertise and experience is a magnet attracting more oil expertise and experience to the area.

                          The Greater Houston Partnership has a unique place among business organizations. It combines opportunities for economic development, international business and public policy development. As the Houston region's primary business advocate, the Partnership helps keep businesses connected and works in their interests.

                          Energy Facts

                          • Forty-eight percent of the region's economic base employment is related to energy.
                          • Houston is headquarters for 17 energy-related Fortune 500 companies.
                          • Houston is home to the cutting-edge Offshore Technology Conference (OTC).
                          • Houston houses more than 3,600 energy-related establishments.
                          • Houston is home to 13 of the nation's 20 largest natural gas transmission companies.
                          • Houston has nearly 600 exploration and production firms.
                          • Houston has more than 170 pipeline operators.
                          • Hundreds of manufacturers of energy-sector products call Houston home.

                          In recent years, industry giants such as CITGO and Noble and smaller energy-related companies including Johnson Engineering and Hydralift, Inc. have relocated to Houston. Another 192 energy businesses have found Houston fertile ground for growth. In every case, expansions and relocations equal jobs for the Houston region.

                          Houston Entrepreneurial Enterprises Facts:

                          • The Houston region is home to more than 85,000 small businesses
                          • Houston's dynamic economy, well-developed information technology sector, talented workforce, business-friendly environment, low costs of living and ease of doing business make it a natural magnet for entrepreneurs.
                          • Houston ranked #2 on the Milken Institute's 2003 Best-Performing Cities Index
                          • Site Selection magazine ranked the Houston-Baytown-Sugar Land metro area in the top 10 of Metro Areas for Investment in its March, 2004 issue
                          • Houston has the lowest cost of living among the country's 24 largest metropolitan areas, according to the ACCRA Cost of Living Index for the first quarter of 2005
                          • With no state personal income or state property taxes, Houston has one of the lowest per-family tax burdens of any major U.S. city

                          Enterpreneurial Enterprises Resources:

                          • The Greater Houston Partnership Emerging Business Council
                          • The Greater Houston Partnership Business Development Division
                          • Texas Economic Development Web site
                          • Small Business Administration
                          • University of Houston Small Business Development Center

                          Enterpreneurial Enterprises Events:

                          The Greater Houston Partnership Super Summit, held yearly, helps emerging businesses learn to better partner with established corporations


                          ============================================

                          Oil Companies, Experts Discuss Alternative Energy Development
                          http://www.voanews.com/english/archive/2006-02/2006-02-07-voa1.cfm?CFID=14451546&CFTOKEN=59544590
                          By Greg Flakus
                          Houston 07 February 2006



                          Around 1,800 oil and gas company executives, government energy ministers and other players in the world energy sector have gathered in Houston for a special emphasis on developing new sources of energy.

                          The theme for this year's conference is "The New Prize: Energy's Next Era," and that encompasses everything from extraction of oil from Canada's extensive tar sands to development of solar power and ethanol.

                          CERA Senior Advisor James Rosenfield is one of the three men who founded the conference in 1983. He tells VOA that many of the big oil companies represented here are already investing a lot of money in alternative energy programs.

                          "A lot of the new economy of energy is going to be driven by the international oil companies such as Shell, BP and Exxon, who are really investing billions and billions of dollars in R and D (Research and Development) for new sources of supply, solar alternatives, fuel cells, distributed generation, really across the spectrum," Rosenfield said. "In the case of BP, their focus has been on electric power, actually, using a lot of their technology to look at alternative and renewable sources of electric power generation."

                          Rosenfield says using CERAWeek to focus on such issues as alternative energy, non-conventional oil sources and conservation could have important consequences worldwide because participants represent every aspect of the international energy business.

                          "We will have exploration and production companies, national oil companies, integrated oil companies, but also utilities, energy end users, consumers such as Dow and Boeing and some of the automotive companies as well and then the financial institutions that provide the capital, in many cases, for the industry," he said.

                          Included in the mix of participants are representatives from several member nations of the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries, known as OPEC. One of the chief speakers at the opening ceremony Tuesday will be Saudi Arabia's Oil Minister, Ali Naimi.

                          OPEC leaders have at times expressed concern over US and European efforts to develop alternative energy because it could divert investment from development of conventional energy sources. In an appearance here in Houston last year, the head of the Saudi oil company, Aramco, said his nation's vast oil reserves represent a reliable supply of energy that alternative energy programs are not likely to equal any time soon.

                          But Rosenfield says he does not believe the Saudis are against development of other energy sources.

                          "I think that the Saudis actually take a view that we are in this together, that we need to build the world's oil and energy supply, to build a stable and diversified supply base," he added. "We will hear from Mr. Naimi and what he has to say, but, while they are committed to an oil and hydrocarbon economy, they also recognize that over multi-decades we are going to be looking towards a lot of different sources of supply as well."

                          In his state of the union address last week, President Bush called for programs that would lessen U.S. dependence on foreign sources of oil and gave special emphasis to the development of biofuels like ethanol. Brazil, which has a successful ethanol program based on fuel from sugar cane, is also represented at CERAWeek and Rosenfield says he expects a lot of discussion among participants about such programs.

                          =====================================



                          On 6/5/06, Edward Kramer <onekindr@...> wrote:
                          Maybe what I meant to say is carbon is in your every day life -from the tires on the car (are they rubber): or the PC housing, to the packageing of your groceries etc. That is our foundation of consumer products. Does a barrel of oil go for 100 % usage of  gasoline and petrol products? Next time you eat a chocolate bar, think of what is in that chocolate bar. The real treasure thats in  oil is the refined black carbon, the building block of a plastics. Plastics equate to consumption which equals growth. The delimea we face is how to conserve. If you watch PBS, even Chevron advertises that half the worlds energy supply is used up, the problem is how to effectively use the rest. For sure, it is going to be more expensive, and hence under a capitilistic system, the growth of other competing dollar entities are going to shrink. That is not a good thing at all. The city of Houston has not not taken heed to this warning. they are by far the largest user of electricity, yet have not one action plan to make changes. I heard they found some federal money and invested in a wind farm at King Ranch. Maybe they can open an annex buiding next door.
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 11:37 PM
                          Subject: [hreg] Re: Roger Ebert reviews An Inconvenient Truth

                          Maybe I'm misunderstanding your comments, but please note that: 
                          (1) "black carbon" is not the basic building block of life; (2)
                          carbon is an element that is indeed the building block of life; (3)
                          carbon in various molecular forms is "burned" by animals every day
                          to form CO2; (4) CO2 is "recycled" by plants that convert it into
                          sugars, cellulose, etc. that are then used by animals via #2, as
                          well as used for building houses, burning to heat them, etc.; marine
                          invertebrates fix a lot of CO2 by incorporation into carbonates,
                          which we humans also use in various ways; (5) I haven't read any
                          serious scientists proposing that we will exhaust the world's carbon
                          supply by burning it up; (6) none of this is to dispute that CO2
                          levels are at record highs, but simply to remind HREG readers that
                          the chemistry of the carbon cycle is complex and varied because it
                          IS the foundation of life--let's try to keep the basic facts
                          straight.

                          Robert Johnston


                          --- In hreg@yahoogroups.com, "Edward Kramer" <onekindr@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > A geophysicist will argue that we are in a natural warming caused
                          by changing sea levels, shift in plates and natural changes in the
                          jet stream. Global warming might be a small cause of the natural
                          warming trend, and the earth atmosphee can handle any Co2 gases that
                          we humans combust. Electricity is suppose to make our life better,
                          and if we do not find a sustainable source of electricity, life for
                          our children and theirs will revert to prehistoric times. We are
                          here for a very short time, we should only borrow from mother
                          nature, not take. If we deplete the carbon resources,
                          > what is the next generation going to do for the very basic
                          building life of all matter-black carbon. Rather than utilizing the
                          carbon for the solid production of physical goods, we are burning it
                          up in combustion for electricity. Once its gone, its gone. If we do
                          not wake up and make some serious changes in our lifestyles, how we
                          use the exiting resources, the future does not look so bright the
                          children.
                          >   ----- Original Message -----
                          >   From: Sarah Carriger
                          >   To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                          >   Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 6:53 PM
                          >   Subject: Re: [hreg] Roger Ebert reviews An Inconvenient Truth
                          >
                          >
                          >   I do not understand the comment of where the children are going
                          to play.  Same place they played before the turn of the 20th
                          century - before oil production became a big business - outside.  If
                          fossil fuel is causing global warming, then isn't this a good thing
                          that we run out of fossil fuels???  This planet and her inhabitants
                          survived just fine without oil and we can do it again.  It appears
                          that only when the supply is indeed limited will there be any
                          advances in alternative energy production, because at that point
                          there will be no choice.
                          >
                          >
                          >   Edward Kramer wrote:
                          >     Thanks for the invite, but I would rather conserve my fuel, as
                          the round trip from my house is costly and I will do my part to help
                          the future. Remeber, there is only 70-80 year supply of fossil fuel
                          in the world. Where are the chiildren going to play?
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >   SPONSORED LINKS Renewable energy  Renewable energy resources 
                          Renewable energy sources 
                          >         Renewable energy system  Renewable energy news  Houston
                          texas 
                          >
                          >
                          > -------------------------------------------------------------------
                          -----------
                          >   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                          >
                          >     a..  Visit your group "hreg" on the web.
                          >      
                          >     b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                          >      hreg-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                          >      
                          >     c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
                          of Service.
                          >
                          >
                          > -------------------------------------------------------------------
                          -----------
                          >







                          SPONSORED LINKS
                          Renewable energyRenewable energy resourcesRenewable energy sources
                          Renewable energy systemRenewable energy newsHouston texas


                          YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS






                          SPONSORED LINKS
                          Renewable energyRenewable energy resourcesRenewable energy sources
                          Renewable energy systemRenewable energy newsHouston texas


                          YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS




                          
                          SBT Designs
                          25581 IH-10 West
                          San Antonio, Texas 78257
                          (210) 698-7109
                          www.sbtdesigns.com
                        • Edward Kramer
                          I would disagree with you, an installed 50 k system after rebates and incentives produces electricity for roughly 6-7 cents a killowatt for a minimum of 25
                          Message 12 of 23 , Jun 5, 2006
                          • 0 Attachment
                            I would disagree with you, an installed 50 k system after rebates and incentives produces electricity for roughly 6-7 cents a killowatt for a minimum of 25 years-really forever. I would say that is a good business investment. When you have a "free" power source such as the sun, no moving parts to wear out (no maintenace costs), I would call that a win -win-win and oh yes, not a single ounce of greenhouse gas emmision. Subsidies, why does oil and gas, coal and rail pay no taxes!
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 11:47 AM
                            Subject: Re: [hreg] Re: Roger Ebert reviews An Inconvenient Truth

                            I think a better question for us to ask is why do these corporations purchase and install renewable energy in other locations but not in Texas? 
                             
                            The short answer is because utility prices are still relatively low here in Texas and not as high as they are in California and other states.  This is especially true where the taxpayer subsidizes the cost of electricity for municipally owned utilities and rural co-ops.  This subsidy artificially keeps the price of electricity low for large commercial consumers. 
                             
                            The irony is that if a poor electric consumer and taxpayer cannot pay their bill these subsidized utilities will not hesitate to disconnect the user's power.  However, if and when large commercial consumers are late with their payments the utilities will bend over backwards to accomodate them. 



                             
                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: Edward Kramer
                            Sent: Jun 5, 2006 11:25 AM
                            To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [hreg] Re: Roger Ebert reviews An Inconvenient Truth

                            Will, 
                             
                               Why does the city of Austin have a rebate plan, allocated from the tax revenues it receives from electric bills to promote the installation of PV systems.?  why dioes Walgreen does install 122 of their stores in California with PV systems. Why does Whole Foods Markets, based out of Austin , with four stores in Houston install PV systems in their California stores and "green" it up on their web site.Could it be they are good stewards of the environment, or that they are taking advantage of Federal and local financial (rebate) incentives to add solar. What incentive plan does the city of Houston have? One nice thing about this forum is that we exchange ideas and might come to some important dialogue.  Just briefing thru your add on I see a lot of wind farms. They are nice, but where are they located? West Texas is nie for wind farms, but that is a long way from my home.
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 8:00 AM
                            Subject: Re: [hreg] Re: Roger Ebert reviews An Inconvenient Truth

                            Edward

                            I'll try to say this politely - please step off the soapbox. You have repeatedly made unsubstantiated statements on the HREG listserv, much to the chagrin of its members.   You should know what you're talking about before making declarations.  If you research what you wish to discuss before you enter the "soapbox zone", you will understand the issue.  You will also have factual, actual, information to substantiate your argument, and a solid platform to stand on. Please employ more facts and less conjecture and hyperbole in your entries.


                            One example - you said "The city of Houston has not not taken heed to this warning. they are by far the largest user of electricity, yet have not one action plan to make changes."   Where did you get this information from Edward? An update to your statement in the p.s. will bring you current on this "declaration."

                            I wish you all the best in expressing yourself as factually as you do actually.  You will find greater support for your ideas if they are defend-able.  Good luck.

                            Will

                            p.s.  here is some information on Houston's Alternative Energy initiatives that will update your last statement. You will learn there are "more than a few" Alt-Energy initiatives in Houston, contrary to your previous statements.   That is, if you have a real interest in Renewable Energy and Alt-Energy projects. Otherwise, you wouldn't be here, right?

                            ========================================

                            Alternative Energy Industry Guide to Houston
                            http://www.houston.org/industryGuide/alternativeEnergy.asp

                            As the Energy Capital of the World, Houston uses its spirit of innovation and collaboration to forge new ground across all aspects of the energy sector.

                            Extensive research and development is underway on developing energy sources that are not based on the burning of fossil fuels or the splitting of atoms. These include geothermal, wind, tide, solar, ground source heat pumps, biofuels hydroelectric and hydrogen fuel cells. The Greater Houston Partnership is working with area organizations to develop and demonstrate advanced hydrogen and fuel cell technologies that will reduce our nation's dependency on oil, improve air quality and maintain the region's economic competitiveness.

                            Houston has the tools and infrastructure in place to capitalize on this emerging sector of the energy industry.

                            Industry Facts:

                            • Texas is one of the top three states in the country in wind power potential
                            • In 2003, Texas installed more wind power than the entire United States had in any other year
                            • Many of Houston's school crossing lights are powered by solar energy

                            Green Mountain Energy Case Study

                            Green Mountain Energy is one of 11 electric retailers from whom Houstonians can purchase their electric power. Much of Green Mountain Energy's source for electricity is wind power.

                            The Green Mountain Energy Wind Farm in Borden and Scurry counties in West Texas produces enough electricity to power 30,000 homes.

                            Alternative Energy Downloadable Fact Sheet

                            Who's Who in Houston Alternative Enery:

                            Alternative Energy Resources:

                            • Business Development Division of the Greater Houston Partnership
                            • Houston Advanced Research Center
                            • Houston Energy Collaborative
                            • Houston Technology Center

                            Energy Events in Houston

                            Energy events bring together top talent, innovation and information.

                            • Energy events in Houston include: the Offshore Technology Conference (OTC) and the Energy Venture Forum. Held annually in Houston, OTC is the energy industry's premier conference and exhibition focused on deepwater offshore technology. The 51,320 participants from 110 nations in 2005 represented OTC's highest attendance since 1985. The exhibition included 2,087 exhibiting companies, totaling more than 410,000 net square feet, filling all available indoor and outdoor space.
                            • The Energy Venture Forum at Houston's Rice University introduces the most promising early-stage energy-related technology companies to leading venture capitalists. Participants hear about cutting-edge research and learn about emerging technology developments in traditional and alternative energy. Approximately 450 attendees participated in 2004.

                            Energy Resources in Houston

                            Where to go and what to do if you're thinking of starting, moving or expanding your business in Houston.

                            Some fuel for thought: From oil and gas to chemical development and production, the 10-county Houston region is the center of all things energy. The region offers a solid energy and chemical foundation and a workforce skilled in meeting the sector's needs. The region's large concentration of oil expertise and experience is a magnet attracting more oil expertise and experience to the area.

                            The Greater Houston Partnership has a unique place among business organizations. It combines opportunities for economic development, international business and public policy development. As the Houston region's primary business advocate, the Partnership helps keep businesses connected and works in their interests.

                            Energy Facts

                            • Forty-eight percent of the region's economic base employment is related to energy.
                            • Houston is headquarters for 17 energy-related Fortune 500 companies.
                            • Houston is home to the cutting-edge Offshore Technology Conference (OTC).
                            • Houston houses more than 3,600 energy-related establishments.
                            • Houston is home to 13 of the nation's 20 largest natural gas transmission companies.
                            • Houston has nearly 600 exploration and production firms.
                            • Houston has more than 170 pipeline operators.
                            • Hundreds of manufacturers of energy-sector products call Houston home.

                            In recent years, industry giants such as CITGO and Noble and smaller energy-related companies including Johnson Engineering and Hydralift, Inc. have relocated to Houston. Another 192 energy businesses have found Houston fertile ground for growth. In every case, expansions and relocations equal jobs for the Houston region.

                            Houston Entrepreneurial Enterprises Facts:

                            • The Houston region is home to more than 85,000 small businesses
                            • Houston's dynamic economy, well-developed information technology sector, talented workforce, business-friendly environment, low costs of living and ease of doing business make it a natural magnet for entrepreneurs.
                            • Houston ranked #2 on the Milken Institute's 2003 Best-Performing Cities Index
                            • Site Selection magazine ranked the Houston-Baytown-Sugar Land metro area in the top 10 of Metro Areas for Investment in its March, 2004 issue
                            • Houston has the lowest cost of living among the country's 24 largest metropolitan areas, according to the ACCRA Cost of Living Index for the first quarter of 2005
                            • With no state personal income or state property taxes, Houston has one of the lowest per-family tax burdens of any major U.S. city

                            Enterpreneurial Enterprises Resources:

                            • The Greater Houston Partnership Emerging Business Council
                            • The Greater Houston Partnership Business Development Division
                            • Texas Economic Development Web site
                            • Small Business Administration
                            • University of Houston Small Business Development Center

                            Enterpreneurial Enterprises Events:

                            The Greater Houston Partnership Super Summit, held yearly, helps emerging businesses learn to better partner with established corporations


                            ============================================

                            Oil Companies, Experts Discuss Alternative Energy Development
                            http://www.voanews.com/english/archive/2006-02/2006-02-07-voa1.cfm?CFID=14451546&CFTOKEN=59544590
                            By Greg Flakus
                            Houston 07 February 2006



                            Around 1,800 oil and gas company executives, government energy ministers and other players in the world energy sector have gathered in Houston for a special emphasis on developing new sources of energy.

                            The theme for this year's conference is "The New Prize: Energy's Next Era," and that encompasses everything from extraction of oil from Canada's extensive tar sands to development of solar power and ethanol.

                            CERA Senior Advisor James Rosenfield is one of the three men who founded the conference in 1983. He tells VOA that many of the big oil companies represented here are already investing a lot of money in alternative energy programs.

                            "A lot of the new economy of energy is going to be driven by the international oil companies such as Shell, BP and Exxon, who are really investing billions and billions of dollars in R and D (Research and Development) for new sources of supply, solar alternatives, fuel cells, distributed generation, really across the spectrum," Rosenfield said. "In the case of BP, their focus has been on electric power, actually, using a lot of their technology to look at alternative and renewable sources of electric power generation."

                            Rosenfield says using CERAWeek to focus on such issues as alternative energy, non-conventional oil sources and conservation could have important consequences worldwide because participants represent every aspect of the international energy business.

                            "We will have exploration and production companies, national oil companies, integrated oil companies, but also utilities, energy end users, consumers such as Dow and Boeing and some of the automotive companies as well and then the financial institutions that provide the capital, in many cases, for the industry," he said.

                            Included in the mix of participants are representatives from several member nations of the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries, known as OPEC. One of the chief speakers at the opening ceremony Tuesday will be Saudi Arabia's Oil Minister, Ali Naimi.

                            OPEC leaders have at times expressed concern over US and European efforts to develop alternative energy because it could divert investment from development of conventional energy sources. In an appearance here in Houston last year, the head of the Saudi oil company, Aramco, said his nation's vast oil reserves represent a reliable supply of energy that alternative energy programs are not likely to equal any time soon.

                            But Rosenfield says he does not believe the Saudis are against development of other energy sources.

                            "I think that the Saudis actually take a view that we are in this together, that we need to build the world's oil and energy supply, to build a stable and diversified supply base," he added. "We will hear from Mr. Naimi and what he has to say, but, while they are committed to an oil and hydrocarbon economy, they also recognize that over multi-decades we are going to be looking towards a lot of different sources of supply as well."

                            In his state of the union address last week, President Bush called for programs that would lessen U.S. dependence on foreign sources of oil and gave special emphasis to the development of biofuels like ethanol. Brazil, which has a successful ethanol program based on fuel from sugar cane, is also represented at CERAWeek and Rosenfield says he expects a lot of discussion among participants about such programs.

                            =====================================



                            On 6/5/06, Edward Kramer <onekindr@...> wrote:
                            Maybe what I meant to say is carbon is in your every day life -from the tires on the car (are they rubber): or the PC housing, to the packageing of your groceries etc. That is our foundation of consumer products. Does a barrel of oil go for 100 % usage of  gasoline and petrol products? Next time you eat a chocolate bar, think of what is in that chocolate bar. The real treasure thats in  oil is the refined black carbon, the building block of a plastics. Plastics equate to consumption which equals growth. The delimea we face is how to conserve. If you watch PBS, even Chevron advertises that half the worlds energy supply is used up, the problem is how to effectively use the rest. For sure, it is going to be more expensive, and hence under a capitilistic system, the growth of other competing dollar entities are going to shrink. That is not a good thing at all. The city of Houston has not not taken heed to this warning. they are by far the largest user of electricity, yet have not one action plan to make changes. I heard they found some federal money and invested in a wind farm at King Ranch. Maybe they can open an annex buiding next door.
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 11:37 PM
                            Subject: [hreg] Re: Roger Ebert reviews An Inconvenient Truth

                            Maybe I'm misunderstanding your comments, but please note that: 
                            (1) "black carbon" is not the basic building block of life; (2)
                            carbon is an element that is indeed the building block of life; (3)
                            carbon in various molecular forms is "burned" by animals every day
                            to form CO2; (4) CO2 is "recycled" by plants that convert it into
                            sugars, cellulose, etc. that are then used by animals via #2, as
                            well as used for building houses, burning to heat them, etc.; marine
                            invertebrates fix a lot of CO2 by incorporation into carbonates,
                            which we humans also use in various ways; (5) I haven't read any
                            serious scientists proposing that we will exhaust the world's carbon
                            supply by burning it up; (6) none of this is to dispute that CO2
                            levels are at record highs, but simply to remind HREG readers that
                            the chemistry of the carbon cycle is complex and varied because it
                            IS the foundation of life--let's try to keep the basic facts
                            straight.

                            Robert Johnston


                            --- In hreg@yahoogroups.com, "Edward Kramer" <onekindr@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > A geophysicist will argue that we are in a natural warming caused
                            by changing sea levels, shift in plates and natural changes in the
                            jet stream. Global warming might be a small cause of the natural
                            warming trend, and the earth atmosphee can handle any Co2 gases that
                            we humans combust. Electricity is suppose to make our life better,
                            and if we do not find a sustainable source of electricity, life for
                            our children and theirs will revert to prehistoric times. We are
                            here for a very short time, we should only borrow from mother
                            nature, not take. If we deplete the carbon resources,
                            > what is the next generation going to do for the very basic
                            building life of all matter-black carbon. Rather than utilizing the
                            carbon for the solid production of physical goods, we are burning it
                            up in combustion for electricity. Once its gone, its gone. If we do
                            not wake up and make some serious changes in our lifestyles, how we
                            use the exiting resources, the future does not look so bright the
                            children.
                            >   ----- Original Message -----
                            >   From: Sarah Carriger
                            >   To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                            >   Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 6:53 PM
                            >   Subject: Re: [hreg] Roger Ebert reviews An Inconvenient Truth
                            >
                            >
                            >   I do not understand the comment of where the children are going
                            to play.  Same place they played before the turn of the 20th
                            century - before oil production became a big business - outside.  If
                            fossil fuel is causing global warming, then isn't this a good thing
                            that we run out of fossil fuels???  This planet and her inhabitants
                            survived just fine without oil and we can do it again.  It appears
                            that only when the supply is indeed limited will there be any
                            advances in alternative energy production, because at that point
                            there will be no choice.
                            >
                            >
                            >   Edward Kramer wrote:
                            >     Thanks for the invite, but I would rather conserve my fuel, as
                            the round trip from my house is costly and I will do my part to help
                            the future. Remeber, there is only 70-80 year supply of fossil fuel
                            in the world. Where are the chiildren going to play?
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >   SPONSORED LINKS Renewable energy  Renewable energy resources 
                            Renewable energy sources 
                            >         Renewable energy system  Renewable energy news  Houston
                            texas 
                            >
                            >
                            > -------------------------------------------------------------------
                            -----------
                            >   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                            >
                            >     a..  Visit your group "hreg" on the web.
                            >      
                            >     b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                            >      hreg-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                            >      
                            >     c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
                            of Service.
                            >
                            >
                            > -------------------------------------------------------------------
                            -----------
                            >







                            SPONSORED LINKS
                            Renewable energyRenewable energy resourcesRenewable energy sources
                            Renewable energy systemRenewable energy newsHouston texas


                            YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS






                            SPONSORED LINKS
                            Renewable energyRenewable energy resourcesRenewable energy sources
                            Renewable energy systemRenewable energy newsHouston texas


                            YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS




                            SBT Designs
                            25581 IH-10 West
                            San Antonio, Texas 78257
                            (210) 698-7109
                            www.sbtdesigns.com
                          • will thurmond
                            Paul, Thanks for your reply on this one. Here is some more information on what the city is doing. It isn t nothing , and it s hardly what it could be. But,
                            Message 13 of 23 , Jun 5, 2006
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Paul,

                              Thanks for your reply on this one.  Here is some more information on what the city is doing.  It isn't "nothing", and it's hardly what it could be.  But, given the fact that a large portion of the city's income is from petroleum producing companies, and given that the key lobbyists in local/state government favor petroleum companies, "anything" is a good thing. Houston could do much, much more!! 

                              It does leave a bit of a quandry for the local tax-hungry government to ask people to conserve energy.  Lets assume, for a moment, that the city of Houston makes $1 billion dollars a year in tax revenue off $12 billion dollars a year in gasoline sales. If you ask consumers of gasoline to reduce their consumption, the city makes less money.  The same thing goes for electricity.   For every residential consjumer that pays an average of say $150 a month in electricity, if they reduce their electric power bills by $50 a month, then the city makes less money in tax revenues.   What is the incentive for the city to discourage energy consumption (and lower tax revenues) unless it is a catastrophic problem ( i.e. no supply)?  There would need to be a "tipping point" in voter behavior where 50+ % or more of voters insist the government institute alternative energy policies in order for the elected leaders (and tax hungry politicians) to budge. Even then, legislation would face tough, embedded, local energy lobbies.  The good news is, over time, this "tipping point" will occur and politicians will have to eventually institute alternative energy policies and programs to keep their voters and constituencies happy.   This momentum is already underway.  There is evidence of change - but it's happening slowly.   The rate of change in consumer/voter behavior towards majority opinions, and towards public action, is expected to accelerate as we run out of oil, as oil gets more expensive, and as consumers get pissed at the pump and with home electric bills.

                              This happened in California six years ago after the big energy crisis.    Californians have found a way to grow their population and, at the same time, use less electricity per capita vs. the U.S.' growing per capita energy needs!  See the end of this message for an article on this.  Contributing factors to the reduction of electric power consumption per consumer include: the  installation of flourescent light bulbs, greater use of alternative energy by power generation utilities,
                              rebates to consumers who install more energy-efficient air conditioners, refrigerators, and heating system,. and some other home insulation ideas many have discussed here that can be applied to Houston's residential and commercial properties.  California's measures are a tough act to follow in oil-friendly Texas. 

                              Like Charlie Mauch said, Houston has a ways to go and lots of measures it could implement and mandate as  policy and in cooperation with utilities to do better (as California has been doing).  Hopefully we'll get there sooner than later.

                              Will

                              ==========================================
                              Here is the 411 on Alternative Energy Initiatives in Houston Area:

                              Hybrid Technology  - Mayor Bill White announced in April 2005 plans to convert a substantial portion of the City's fleet of cars, pickup trucks and sport utility vehicles to hybrids by the year 2010. The City fleet comprises more than 11,000 vehicles of which 3,554 are the civilian, light-duty, "non-specialty" fleet.  As of April, the City fleet included 130 hybrids with 76 Toyota Prius and 7 For Escape hybrids on order.
                              Ethanol

                              Ethanol  -  Houston's first ethanol (E85) fuel dispensing facility opened in October 2004 at NASA's Johnson Space Center. JSC is the second federal fleet in Texas to use E85, the first being a Department of Energy facility in Amarillo. Installation of the 1,000gallon, on-site, fuel-dispensing unit brings JSC into compliance with the Energy Policy Act of 1992 (EPAct) and Presidential Executive Order 13149. EPAct requires the acquisition of alternative fuel vehicles (AFVs) for federal fleets and Executive Order 13149 requires that federal fleets reduce their petroleum use 20 percent by 2005. AFVs are designed to run on any ethanol fuel blend up to 85 percent ethanol. JSC is now the fifth NASA center to add ethanol fueling capability. JSC employees are now mandated to use E85 in the 25 Flexible Fuel Vehicles in the GSA fleet assigned for employee use, if their official business takes them within a 50-mile radius of JSC. E85 is U.S.-made fuel from corn or corn by-products and offers superior performance because of its high octane rating (110 compared to 89 for gasoline). E85 cannot be used in conventional gasoline vehicles. Ethanol is not available at retail fuel stations within the state of Texas. 

                              Wind  - Texas has leased an 11,000-acre region of the Gulf of Mexico, seven miles off Galveston Island, for gigantic wind turbines that could eventually power 40,000 homes and generate millions of dollars for state schools. The project marks a new era of pollution-free energy production for the Gulf.
                              Biodiesel

                              Biodiesel (private, not Houston government)- Houston Biodiesel educates about and promotes the use of clean, renewable, domestically produced biodiesel in all diesel engines. The company also sells high quality biodiesel that conforms to ASTM specifications and invites consumers to make their own biodiesel in their "BIG" batch reactor.   TexCom, Inc. is building and will operate a new 30 million gallon per year biodiesel plant at the LBC Houston LP bulk liquids terminal in Seabrook, Texas. TexCom plans to construct the multi-million dollar plant that will convert virgin soybean oil into biodiesel and utilize existing on-site storage capacity and other terminal facilities under a long-term lease from LBC. Project design includes the capability to store conventional petroleum diesel, allowing TexCom to blend and market B20 and other biodiesel blends as well as B100. Feedstock will be brought in via barge to the site, located near the Houston Ship Channel, to produce the renewable fuel.


                              =========================================

                              Energy: Wiser on the West Coast
                              http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/jun2006/tc20060602_187912.htm

                              From "smart meters" to white roofs, California is putting its crisis behind it

                              It was six years ago this summer that the great California energy crisis began. The state hadn't built enough power plants to meet demand. Rogue energy traders swooped in, prices soared, and the state's largest utility went bankrupt.

                              The crisis branded the nation's most populated state as a energy-industry basket case. "What's the difference between California and the Titanic?" recently convicted former Enron CEO Jeffrey Skilling once joked. "The Titanic went down with the lights on."

                              Now, as temperatures creep up in much of the country and the peak air-conditioning season begins, it's worth noting that from an energy perspective, there's much good happening in California. More than 30 new power plants have come online in the past six years, generating 12,000 megawatts. The California Energy Commission estimates that it will have generation reserves of more than 20% this August, nearly three times what's required should power usage spike.

                              The better story, though, lies on the demand side of the equation, or what the state's fitness-focused governor might call portion control. Since California began aggressively pursuing energy efficiency in the mid-1970s, the state's per-capita electricity usage has remained flat at around 6,500 kilowatt-hours per person. In the rest of the country, consumption has risen from 8,000 to 12,000 kilowatt-hours in the same time frame. In terms of carbon emissions, that's the equivalent of keeping 12 million cars off the road.

                              UTILITIES ON BOARD.  How does California do it? Here's one way: The state requires that fluorescent bulbs be used in new construction or major remodels in many rooms of the house. Fluorescent lights are more than four times more efficient than incandescents, so if you're remodeling a kitchen, laundry, or bathroom in the Golden State, you have no choice. The standards are part of a massive set of statewide building codes called Title 24 that was passed in 1978. They get toughened every couple of years or so, and consumers get used to them. "They kind of accept it and move on," says Santa Monica architect Aleks Istanbullu.

                              California has also succeeded by getting utilities involved in conservation. The state's big electric distributors shell out hundreds of millions of dollars every year in rebates to consumers who install more energy-efficient air conditioners, refrigerators, and heating systems. The rebates, budgeted at $2 billion between now and 2008, are intended to save $5 billion in power purchases. "Before we invest in traditional pipes and wires, we have to implement these programs," says Anne Shen Smith, senior vice-president for customer relations at San Diego Gas & Electric. "It's the equivalent of avoiding three new power plants."

                              Utilities are also required to get more of their power from renewable sources, such as wind, solar, biomass, and geothermal. In 2002, California instituted one of the most extensive renewable programs in the country, requiring 20% of power from such sources by 2010, up from 10% today. The utilities are also being allowed to earn their regulated rate of return on new "smart meters" that collect customer-usage information in real time, allowing the energy providers to recommend ways for them to cut costs. "California's unique," says Greg Ander, chief architect for Southern California Edison. "Utilities have gotten very aggressive since the meltdown."

                              WHITE-ROOF INITIATIVE.  Politicians have gotten into the game, too. Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger, who is campaigning for reelection in November, has jumped on the green bandwagon, earmarking $2.8 billion over 10 years to put small solar systems in place. His "Million Solar Roofs" program, started in January, provides cash to homeowners who choose to install such systems.

                              The state has other initiatives in the works. California Energy Commissioner Arthur H. Rosenfeld, who has been called the father of energy conservation in the state, says his office is now working on regulations that would require all new roofs in the state to be white, because they absorb less heat and cut air-conditioning bills. "The pharaohs and the Greeks have known this for 5,000 years," he says. Regulations presently call for flat roofs to be white. The state is working with roofing manufacturers who have created pigments that mimic the energy-saving nature of white so that the regulations can be extended to sloped roofs and tiles by 2008.

                              It may seem goofy, but what happens in California usually doesn't stay there. In the mid-1970s, California was a leader in pushing for more efficient appliances. Similar federal standards came into effect in 1992. The result is that even as the average size of refrigerators has increased, the power they use has fallen 75%, to roughly 400 kilowatt-hours per year. It's funny how fast things can turn around. It's not California that's sinking anymore.




                              On 6/5/06, Paul Archer <tigger@...> wrote:
                              7:00am, will thurmond wrote:

                              > Edward
                              >
                              > I'll try to say this politely - please step off the soapbox. You have
                              > repeatedly made unsubstantiated statements on the HREG listserv, much to the
                              > chagrin of its members.   You should know what you're talking about before
                              > making declarations.  If you research what you wish to discuss before you
                              > enter the "soapbox zone", you will understand the issue.  You will also have
                              > factual, actual, information to substantiate your argument, and a solid
                              > platform to stand on. Please employ more facts and less conjecture and
                              > hyperbole in your entries.
                              >
                              > One example - you said "The city of Houston has not not taken heed to this
                              > warning. they are by far the largest user of electricity, yet have not one
                              > action plan to make changes."   Where did you get this information from
                              > Edward? An update to your statement in the p.s. will bring you current on
                              > this "declaration."
                              >
                              > I wish you all the best in expressing yourself as factually as you do
                              > actually.  You will find greater support for your ideas if they are
                              > defend-able.  Good luck.
                              >
                              > Will
                              >
                              > p.s.  here is some information on Houston's Alternative Energy initiatives
                              > that will update your last statement. You will learn there are "more than a
                              > few" Alt-Energy initiatives in Houston, contrary to your previous
                              > statements.   That is, if you have a real interest in Renewable Energy and
                              > Alt-Energy projects. Otherwise, you wouldn't be here, right?
                              >
                              [massive snippage]

                              Will, I wholeheartedly agree with you in that *whoever* is speaking in a
                              forum like this should have his/her facts together first.
                              And I agree that Edward did not back up his claim that "[t]he City of
                              Houston ...have not one action plan to make changes." However, I think you
                              misread his statement, as the the information you included (which I've
                              snipped for space) did not counter that charge.
                              The specific claim was, I believe, that the City of Houston (that is the
                              munincipal government, not the inhabitants of Houston as a whole), which
                              most likely is the single largest consumer of electricity in the city, has
                              not taken action to reduce its energy usage. Your included information did
                              mention solar-powered school "crossing" lights (although I think it meant
                              school zone lights). I've seen these and similar lights all over the
                              country. They do save electricity, but considering how much light they put
                              out (a blink or two a second for two hours a day 5 days a week, 9 months a
                              year), I would guess that the primary motivation for them is to save
                              installation costs rather than power.

                              Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is just that I think Edward does bring
                              up a good point: I don't know *what* the City of Houston is up to as far as
                              energy consumption and conservation, but I'd like to find out.


                              Paul



                              SPONSORED LINKS
                              Renewable energy Renewable energy resources Renewable energy sources
                              Renewable energy system Renewable energy news Houston texas


                              YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS




                            • Kevin L. Conlin
                              Edward, your production cost estimate for PV seems a little low at $.06-.07 per kWh, would you mind sharing your calculations with us? Thanks and regards,
                              Message 14 of 23 , Jun 5, 2006
                              • 0 Attachment

                                Edward,  your production cost estimate for PV seems a little low at $.06-.07 per kWh, would you mind sharing your calculations with us?

                                 

                                Thanks and regards,  Kevin

                                 

                                ________________________

                                Kevin Conlin
                                Solarcraft, Inc.
                                13130 Stafford Road, Suite 125
                                Stafford, TX 77477-4536
                                (281)495-0438
                                fax (281)495-0440
                                kconlin@...
                                www.solarcraft.net

                                 


                                From: Edward Kramer [mailto:onekindr@...]
                                Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 12:02 PM
                                To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: Re: [hreg] Re: Roger Ebert reviews An Inconvenient Truth

                                 

                                I would disagree with you, an installed 50 k system after rebates and incentives produces electricity for roughly 6-7 cents a killowatt for a minimum of 25 years-really forever. I would say that is a good business investment. When you have a "free" power source such as the sun, no moving parts to wear out (no maintenace costs), I would call that a win -win-win and oh yes, not a single ounce of greenhouse gas emmision. Subsidies, why does oil and gas, coal and rail pay no taxes!

                                ----- Original Message -----

                                Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 11:47 AM

                                Subject: Re: [hreg] Re: Roger Ebert reviews An Inconvenient Truth

                                 

                                I think a better question for us to ask is why do these corporations purchase and install renewable energy in other locations but not in Texas? 

                                 

                                The short answer is because utility prices are still relatively low here in Texas and not as high as they are in California and other states.  This is especially true where the taxpayer subsidizes the cost of electricity for municipally owned utilities and rural co-ops.  This subsidy artificially keeps the price of electricity low for large commercial consumers. 

                                 

                                The irony is that if a poor electric consumer and taxpayer cannot pay their bill these subsidized utilities will not hesitate to disconnect the user's power.  However, if and when large commercial consumers are late with their payments the utilities will bend over backwards to accomodate them. 




                                 

                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: Edward Kramer
                                Sent: Jun 5, 2006 11:25 AM
                                To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: Re: [hreg] Re: Roger Ebert reviews An Inconvenient Truth


                                Will, 

                                 

                                   Why does the city of Austin have a rebate plan, allocated from the tax revenues it receives from electric bills to promote the installation of PV systems.?  why dioes Walgreen does install 122 of their stores in California with PV systems. Why does Whole Foods Markets, based out of Austin , with four stores in Houston install PV systems in their California stores and "green" it up on their web site.Could it be they are good stewards of the environment, or that they are taking advantage of Federal and local financial (rebate) incentives to add solar. What incentive plan does the city of Houston have? One nice thing about this forum is that we exchange ideas and might come to some important dialogue.  Just briefing thru your add on I see a lot of wind farms. They are nice, but where are they located? West Texas is nie for wind farms, but that is a long way from my home.

                                ----- Original Message -----

                                Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 8:00 AM

                                Subject: Re: [hreg] Re: Roger Ebert reviews An Inconvenient Truth

                                 

                                Edward

                                I'll try to say this politely - please step off the soapbox. You have repeatedly made unsubstantiated statements on the HREG listserv, much to the chagrin of its members.   You should know what you're talking about before making declarations.  If you research what you wish to discuss before you enter the "soapbox zone", you will understand the issue.  You will also have factual, actual, information to substantiate your argument, and a solid platform to stand on. Please employ more facts and less conjecture and hyperbole in your entries.


                                One example - you said "The city of Houston has not not taken heed to this warning. they are by far the largest user of electricity, yet have not one action plan to make changes."   Where did you get this information from Edward? An update to your statement in the p.s. will bring you current on this "declaration."

                                I wish you all the best in expressing yourself as factually as you do actually.  You will find greater support for your ideas if they are defend-able.  Good luck.

                                Will

                                p.s.  here is some information on Houston's Alternative Energy initiatives that will update your last statement. You will learn there are "more than a few" Alt-Energy initiatives in Houston, contrary to your previous statements.   That is, if you have a real interest in Renewable Energy and Alt-Energy projects. Otherwise, you wouldn't be here, right?

                                ========================================

                                Alternative Energy Industry Guide to Houston
                                http://www.houston.org/industryGuide/alternativeEnergy.asp

                                As the Energy Capital of the World, Houston uses its spirit of innovation and collaboration to forge new ground across all aspects of the energy sector.

                                Extensive research and development is underway on developing energy sources that are not based on the burning of fossil fuels or the splitting of atoms. These include geothermal, wind, tide, solar, ground source heat pumps, biofuels hydroelectric and hydrogen fuel cells. The Greater Houston Partnership is working with area organizations to develop and demonstrate advanced hydrogen and fuel cell technologies that will reduce our nation's dependency on oil, improve air quality and maintain the region's economic competitiveness.

                                Houston has the tools and infrastructure in place to capitalize on this emerging sector of the energy industry.

                                Industry Facts:

                                • Texas is one of the top three states in the country in wind power potential
                                • In 2003, Texas installed more wind power than the entire United States had in any other year
                                • Many of Houston's school crossing lights are powered by solar energy

                                Green Mountain Energy Case Study

                                Green Mountain Energy is one of 11 electric retailers from whom Houstonians can purchase their electric power. Much of Green Mountain Energy's source for electricity is wind power.

                                The Green Mountain Energy Wind Farm in Borden and Scurry counties in West Texas produces enough electricity to power 30,000 homes.

                                Alternative Energy Downloadable Fact Sheet

                                Who's Who in Houston Alternative Enery:

                                Alternative Energy Resources:

                                • Business Development Division of the Greater Houston Partnership
                                • Houston Advanced Research Center
                                • Houston Energy Collaborative
                                • Houston Technology Center

                                Energy Events in Houston

                                Energy events bring together top talent, innovation and information.

                                • Energy events in Houston include: the Offshore Technology Conference (OTC) and the Energy Venture Forum. Held annually in Houston, OTC is the energy industry's premier conference and exhibition focused on deepwater offshore technology. The 51,320 participants from 110 nations in 2005 represented OTC's highest attendance since 1985. The exhibition included 2,087 exhibiting companies, totaling more than 410,000 net square feet, filling all available indoor and outdoor space.
                                • The Energy Venture Forum at Houston's Rice University introduces the most promising early-stage energy-related technology companies to leading venture capitalists. Participants hear about cutting-edge research and learn about emerging technology developments in traditional and alternative energy. Approximately 450 attendees participated in 2004.

                                Energy Resources in Houston

                                Where to go and what to do if you're thinking of starting, moving or expanding your business in Houston.

                                Some fuel for thought: From oil and gas to chemical development and production, the 10-county Houston region is the center of all things energy. The region offers a solid energy and chemical foundation and a workforce skilled in meeting the sector's needs. The region's large concentration of oil expertise and experience is a magnet attracting more oil expertise and experience to the area.

                                The Greater Houston Partnership has a unique place among business organizations. It combines opportunities for economic development, international business and public policy development. As the Houston region's primary business advocate, the Partnership helps keep businesses connected and works in their interests.

                                Energy Facts

                                • Forty-eight percent of the region's economic base employment is related to energy.
                                • Houston is headquarters for 17 energy-related Fortune 500 companies.
                                • Houston is home to the cutting-edge Offshore Technology Conference (OTC).
                                • Houston houses more than 3,600 energy-related establishments.
                                • Houston is home to 13 of the nation's 20 largest natural gas transmission companies.
                                • Houston has nearly 600 exploration and production firms.
                                • Houston has more than 170 pipeline operators.
                                • Hundreds of manufacturers of energy-sector products call Houston home.

                                In recent years, industry giants such as CITGO and Noble and smaller energy-related companies including Johnson Engineering and Hydralift, Inc. have relocated to Houston. Another 192 energy businesses have found Houston fertile ground for growth. In every case, expansions and relocations equal jobs for the Houston region.

                                Houston Entrepreneurial Enterprises Facts:

                                • The Houston region is home to more than 85,000 small businesses
                                • Houston's dynamic economy, well-developed information technology sector, talented workforce, business-friendly environment, low costs of living and ease of doing business make it a natural magnet for entrepreneurs.
                                • Houston ranked #2 on the Milken Institute's 2003 Best-Performing Cities Index
                                • Site Selection magazine ranked the Houston-Baytown-Sugar Land metro area in the top 10 of Metro Areas for Investment in its March, 2004 issue
                                • Houston has the lowest cost of living among the country's 24 largest metropolitan areas, according to the ACCRA Cost of Living Index for the first quarter of 2005
                                • With no state personal income or state property taxes, Houston has one of the lowest per-family tax burdens of any major U.S. city

                                Enterpreneurial Enterprises Resources:

                                • The Greater Houston Partnership Emerging Business Council
                                • The Greater Houston Partnership Business Development Division
                                • Texas Economic Development Web site
                                • Small Business Administration
                                • University of Houston Small Business Development Center

                                Enterpreneurial Enterprises Events:

                                The Greater Houston Partnership Super Summit, held yearly, helps emerging businesses learn to better partner with established corporations

                                 

                                ============================================

                                Oil Companies, Experts Discuss Alternative Energy Development

                                http://www.voanews.com/english/archive/2006-02/2006-02-07-voa1.cfm?CFID=14451546&CFTOKEN=59544590
                                By Greg Flakus
                                Houston 07 February 2006

                                 

                                 

                                Around 1,800 oil and gas company executives, government energy ministers and other players in the world energy sector have gathered in Houston for a special emphasis on developing new sources of energy.

                                The theme for this year's conference is "The New Prize: Energy's Next Era," and that encompasses everything from extraction of oil from Canada's extensive tar sands to development of solar power and ethanol.

                                CERA Senior Advisor James Rosenfield is one of the three men who founded the conference in 1983. He tells VOA that many of the big oil companies represented here are already investing a lot of money in alternative energy programs.

                                "A lot of the new economy of energy is going to be driven by the international oil companies such as Shell, BP and Exxon, who are really investing billions and billions of dollars in R and D (Research and Development) for new sources of supply, solar alternatives, fuel cells, distributed generation, really across the spectrum," Rosenfield said. "In the case of BP, their focus has been on electric power, actually, using a lot of their technology to look at alternative and renewable sources of electric power generation."

                                Rosenfield says using CERAWeek to focus on such issues as alternative energy, non-conventional oil sources and conservation could have important consequences worldwide because participants represent every aspect of the international energy business.

                                "We will have exploration and production companies, national oil companies, integrated oil companies, but also utilities, energy end users, consumers such as Dow and Boeing and some of the automotive companies as well and then the financial institutions that provide the capital, in many cases, for the industry," he said.

                                Included in the mix of participants are representatives from several member nations of the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries, known as OPEC. One of the chief speakers at the opening ceremony Tuesday will be Saudi Arabia's Oil Minister, Ali Naimi.

                                OPEC leaders have at times expressed concern over US and European efforts to develop alternative energy because it could divert investment from development of conventional energy sources. In an appearance here in Houston last year, the head of the Saudi oil company, Aramco, said his nation's vast oil reserves represent a reliable supply of energy that alternative energy programs are not likely to equal any time soon.

                                But Rosenfield says he does not believe the Saudis are against development of other energy sources.

                                "I think that the Saudis actually take a view that we are in this together, that we need to build the world's oil and energy supply, to build a stable and diversified supply base," he added. "We will hear from Mr. Naimi and what he has to say, but, while they are committed to an oil and hydrocarbon economy, they also recognize that over multi-decades we are going to be looking towards a lot of different sources of supply as well."

                                In his state of the union address last week, President Bush called for programs that would lessen U.S. dependence on foreign sources of oil and gave special emphasis to the development of biofuels like ethanol. Brazil, which has a successful ethanol program based on fuel from sugar cane, is also represented at CERAWeek and Rosenfield says he expects a lot of discussion among participants about such programs.

                                =====================================


                                On 6/5/06, Edward Kramer <onekindr@...> wrote:

                                Maybe what I meant to say is carbon is in your every day life -from the tires on the car (are they rubber): or the PC housing, to the packageing of your groceries etc. That is our foundation of consumer products. Does a barrel of oil go for 100 % usage of  gasoline and petrol products? Next time you eat a chocolate bar, think of what is in that chocolate bar. The real treasure thats in  oil is the refined black carbon, the building block of a plastics. Plastics equate to consumption which equals growth. The delimea we face is how to conserve. If you watch PBS, even Chevron advertises that half the worlds energy supply is used up, the problem is how to effectively use the rest. For sure, it is going to be more expensive, and hence under a capitilistic system, the growth of other competing dollar entities are going to shrink. That is not a good thing at all. The city of Houston has not not taken heed to this warning. they are by far the largest user of electricity, yet have not one action plan to make changes. I heard they found some federal money and invested in a wind farm at King Ranch. Maybe they can open an annex buiding next door.

                                ----- Original Message -----

                                From: pencil1959

                                Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 11:37 PM

                                Subject: [hreg] Re: Roger Ebert reviews An Inconvenient Truth

                                 

                                Maybe I'm misunderstanding your comments, but please note that: 
                                (1) "black carbon" is not the basic building block of life; (2)
                                carbon is an element that is indeed the building block of life; (3)
                                carbon in various molecular forms is "burned" by animals every day
                                to form CO2; (4) CO2 is "recycled" by plants that convert it into
                                sugars, cellulose, etc. that are then used by animals via #2, as
                                well as used for building houses, burning to heat them, etc.; marine
                                invertebrates fix a lot of CO2 by incorporation into carbonates,
                                which we humans also use in various ways; (5) I haven't read any
                                serious scientists proposing that we will exhaust the world's carbon
                                supply by burning it up; (6) none of this is to dispute that CO2
                                levels are at record highs, but simply to remind HREG readers that
                                the chemistry of the carbon cycle is complex and varied because it
                                IS the foundation of life--let's try to keep the basic facts
                                straight.

                                Robert Johnston


                                --- In hreg@yahoogroups.com, "Edward Kramer" <onekindr@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > A geophysicist will argue that we are in a natural warming caused
                                by changing sea levels, shift in plates and natural changes in the
                                jet stream. Global warming might be a small cause of the natural
                                warming trend, and the earth atmosphee can handle any Co2 gases that
                                we humans combust. Electricity is suppose to make our life better,
                                and if we do not find a sustainable source of electricity, life for
                                our children and theirs will revert to prehistoric times. We are
                                here for a very short time, we should only borrow from mother
                                nature, not take. If we deplete the carbon resources,
                                > what is the next generation going to do for the very basic
                                building life of all matter-black carbon. Rather than utilizing the
                                carbon for the solid production of physical goods, we are burning it
                                up in combustion for electricity. Once its gone, its gone. If we do
                                not wake up and make some serious changes in our lifestyles, how we
                                use the exiting resources, the future does not look so bright the
                                children.
                                >   ----- Original Message -----
                                >   From: Sarah Carriger
                                >   To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                                >   Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 6:53 PM
                                >   Subject: Re: [hreg] Roger Ebert reviews An Inconvenient Truth
                                >
                                >
                                >   I do not understand the comment of where the children are going
                                to play.  Same place they played before the turn of the 20th
                                century - before oil production became a big business - outside.  If
                                fossil fuel is causing global warming, then isn't this a good thing
                                that we run out of fossil fuels???  This planet and her inhabitants
                                survived just fine without oil and we can do it again.  It appears
                                that only when the supply is indeed limited will there be any
                                advances in alternative energy production, because at that point
                                there will be no choice.
                                >
                                >
                                >   Edward Kramer wrote:
                                >     Thanks for the invite, but I would rather conserve my fuel, as
                                the round trip from my house is costly and I will do my part to help
                                the future. Remeber, there is only 70-80 year supply of fossil fuel
                                in the world. Where are the chiildren going to play?
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >   SPONSORED LINKS Renewable energy  Renewable energy resources 
                                Renewable energy sources 
                                >         Renewable energy system  Renewable energy news  Houston
                                texas 
                                >
                                >
                                > -------------------------------------------------------------------
                                -----------
                                >   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                                >
                                >     a..  Visit your group "hreg" on the web.
                                >      
                                >     b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                >      hreg-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                >      
                                >     c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
                                of Service.
                                >
                                >
                                > -------------------------------------------------------------------
                                -----------
                                >






                                SPONSORED LINKS

                                Renewable energy

                                Renewable energy resources

                                Renewable energy sources

                                Renewable energy system

                                Renewable energy news

                                Houston texas

                                 


                                YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

                                 

                                 




                                SPONSORED LINKS

                              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.