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Re: [hreg] Roger Ebert reviews An Inconvenient Truth

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  • Nan Hildreth
    ... Don t expect the bosses to lead without encouragement from citizens. Our leaders follow us. Or more precisely, as practical politicians they do what seems
    Message 1 of 23 , Jun 4, 2006
    • 0 Attachment
      At 09:38 AM 6/4/2006, Edward Kramer wrote:
      I am more frustrated than grieving.

      Don't expect the bosses to lead without encouragement from citizens. Our leaders follow us.  Or more precisely, as practical politicians they do what seems will be successful, so they can't take initiative without support from citizens. 

      You are invited to help Houston Climate Protection Alliance connect and empower folks concerned about the climate at our meeting today, Sunday at 2:30pm.   Samantha Hechtman from Public Citizen of Austin will talk to us about their campaign to bring up this issue in the race for Governor and other initiatives.  Details at www.HoustonClimateProtection.org


      when I see a religious organization invest 100 million to build a church to send out the lords message and not invest 1 penny in RE solar system to provide a small portion of "free" electricity. When I see a government that is talking about ideas and not taking any action. Our Federal Government is begging for local governments to help promote solar energy. A 30% federal income tax credit for commercial installation, think of the med center and the hospitals consumption of electricity. When I see our wonderful microchip technology being developed in solar panels and then being sold abroad to developing countries. (talk about national security issues)because they can get funding for such projects, and you can't get a company interested in installing such system here in Houston-yes I am frustrated but not grieving. To quote a poet-And your wise men don't know how it feels-to be thick as a brick.
      Edward

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Nan Hildreth
      To: hreg@yahoogroups.com ; hreg@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 9:08 AM
      Subject: Re: [hreg] Roger Ebert reviews An Inconvenient Truth

      Dear Edward,

      Are you grieving about global warming?  Let me invite you to share you grief at the meeting below. 

      It's pretty simple and easy to reduce and offset your personal emissions of greenhouse gases.  It's easy to, instead of hurting the climate, heal the climate.  The steps are outlined in http://www.greenhoustonconnection.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=70     Please join us in protecting the climate.

      Emotionally Coping with Ecological Devastation
      Have you ever cried, raged, or carried a cold ball of fear in your gut over what you see happening to our biosphere? While such feelings are often reasonable, if they continue too long, they are bad for you and your effectiveness as an activist. Join Tim Mock and others from the Houston Climate Protection Alliance for a discussion and sharing session to improve our emotional-coping skills, 1-3 PM, Sunday 18 June, First UU Church, 5200 Fannin at Southmore, Room 303.
      If you don't understand how anyone could have such strong negative feelings about an environmental issue, schedule Tim or another HCPA speaker on concepts like overpopulation, ecofootprint, CO2/temperature, and energy supply/demand -- 713-842-6643 for Nan Hildreth




      At 08:42 AM 6/4/2006, Edward Kramer wrote:
      The problem that you have with this film is that it sends out a message of guilt and fear. Most american don't want to address the fact. Its the ostrich in the sand mentality. While watching the news,I couldn;t help be sadden by the Channel 11 newscaster remark about minute maid park, Giff was reporting and mentioned tonights game was going to be hot as the sun was shining. The dinaosaur mentality remarked that they should close the roof and crank up the a/c! We live in a land that caters to consumption over conservation and that is our downfall. We need a postitive education media, probably in the schools to start. A movie like Al Gores is not going to win over many of its advocates,escpecially paid politicians representing rail,coal and oil interests.
       
      Edward Kramer
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: chasmauch@...
      To: houstonpeakoil@... ; hreg@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 6:58 AM
      Subject: [hreg] Roger Ebert reviews An Inconvenient Truth

      AN INCONVENIENT TRUTH
      By Roger Ebert
      dailykos.com
      June 2, 2006

      http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/6/2/19318/43872
      I want to write this review so every reader will begin it and finish it. I
      am a liberal, but I do not intend this as a review reflecting any kind of
      politics. It reflects the truth as I understand it, and it represents, I
      believe, agreement among the world's experts.
      Global warming is real.
      It is caused by human activity.
      Mankind and its governments must begin immediate action to halt and reverse
      it.
      If we do nothing, in about 10 years the planet may reach a "tipping point"
      and begin a slide toward destruction of our civilization and most of the
      other species on this planet.
      After that point is reached, it would be too late for any action.
      These facts are stated by Al Gore in the documentary "An Inconvenient
      Truth." Forget he ever ran for office. Consider him a concerned man speaking
      out on the approaching crisis. "There is no controversy about these facts,"
      he says in the film. "Out of 925 recent articles in peer-review scientific
      journals about global warming, there was no disagreement. Zero."
      He stands on a stage before a vast screen, in front of an audience. The
      documentary is based on a speech he has been developing for six years, and
      is supported by dramatic visuals. He shows the famous photograph
      "Earthrise," taken from space by the first American astronauts. Then he
      shows a series of later space photographs, clearly indicating that glaciers
      and lakes are shrinking, snows are melting, shorelines are retreating.
      He provides statistics: The 10 warmest years in history were in the last 14
      years. Last year South America experienced its first hurricane. Japan and
      the Pacific are setting records for typhoons. Hurricane Katrina passed over
      Florida, doubled back over the Gulf, picked up strength from unusually warm
      Gulf waters, and went from Category 3 to Category 5. There are changes in
      the Gulf Stream and the jet stream. Cores of polar ice show that carbon
      dioxide is much, much higher than ever before in a quarter of a million
      years. It was once thought that such things went in cycles. Gore stands in
      front of a graph showing the ups and downs of carbon dioxide over the
      centuries. Yes, there is a cyclical pattern. Then, in recent years, the
      graph turns up and keeps going up, higher and higher, off the chart.
      The primary man-made cause of global warming is the burning of fossil fuels.
      We are taking energy stored over hundreds of millions of years in the form
      of coal, gas and oil, and releasing it suddenly. This causes global warming,
      and there is a pass-along effect. Since glaciers and snow reflect sunlight
      but sea water absorbs it, the more the ice melts, the more of the sun's
      energy is retained by the sea.
      Gore says that although there is "100 percent agreement" among scientists, a
      database search of newspaper and magazine articles shows that 57 percent
      question the fact of global warming, while 43 percent support it. These
      figures are the result, he says, of a disinformation campaign started in the
      1990s by the energy industries to "reposition global warming as a debate."
      It is the same strategy used for years by the defenders of tobacco. My
      father was a Luckys smoker who died of lung cancer in 1960, and 20 years
      later it was still "debatable" that there was a link between smoking and
      lung cancer. Now we are talking about the death of the future, starting in
      the lives of those now living.
      "The world won't 'end' overnight in 10 years," Gore says. "But a point will
      have been passed, and there will be an irreversible slide into destruction."
      In England, Sir James Lovelock, the scientist who proposed the Gaia
      hypothesis (that the planet functions like a living organism), has published
      a new book saying that in 100 years mankind will be reduced to "a few
      breeding couples at the Poles." Gore thinks "that's too pessimistic. We can
      turn this around just as we reversed the hole in the ozone layer. But it
      takes action right now, and politicians in every nation must have the
      courage to do what is necessary. It is not a political issue. It is a moral
      issue."
      When I said I was going to a press screening of "An Inconvenient Truth," a
      friend said, "Al Gore talking about the environment! Bor...ing!" This is not
      a boring film. The director, Davis Guggenheim, uses words, images and Gore's
      concise litany of facts to build a film that is fascinating and relentless.
      In 39 years, I have never written these words in a movie review, but here
      they are: You owe it to yourself to see this film. If you do not, and you
      have grandchildren, you should explain to them why you decided not to.
      Am I acting as an advocate in this review? Yes, I am. I believe that to be
      "impartial" and "balanced" on global warming means one must take a position
      like Gore's. There is no other view that can be defended. Sen. James Inhofe
      (R-Okla.), chairman of the Senate Environment Committee, has said, "Global
      warming is the greatest hoax ever perpetrated on the American people." I
      hope he takes his job seriously enough to see this film. I think he has a
      responsibility to do that.
      What can we do? Switch to and encourage the development of alternative
      energy sources: Solar, wind, tidal, and, yes, nuclear. Move quickly toward
      hybrid and electric cars. Pour money into public transit, and subsidize the
      fares. Save energy in our houses. I did a funny thing when I came home after
      seeing "An Inconvenient Truth." I went around the house turning off the
      lights.


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      Nan Hildreth, 713-842-6643 NanHildreth@...
      3939 Luca St.  Houston, Tx 77021

      "Life is a daring adventure, or nothing. To keep our faces toward change and behave like free spirits in the presence of fate is strength undefeatable."
      Helen Keller


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      Renewable energy system Renewable energy credit Renewable energy news


      YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

       Visit your group "hreg" on the web.
       
       To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        hreg-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
       
       Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


      Nan Hildreth, 713-842-6643 NanHildreth@...
      3939 Luca St.  Houston, Tx 77021

      "Life is a daring adventure, or nothing. To keep our faces toward change and behave like free spirits in the presence of fate is strength undefeatable."
      Helen Keller

  • Edward Kramer
    Thanks for the invite, but I would rather conserve my fuel, as the round trip from my house is costly and I will do my part to help the future. Remeber, there
    Message 2 of 23 , Jun 4, 2006
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      Thanks for the invite, but I would rather conserve my fuel, as the round trip from my house is costly and I will do my part to help the future. Remeber, there is only 70-80 year supply of fossil fuel in the world. Where are the chiildren going to play?
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 10:02 AM
      Subject: Re: [hreg] Roger Ebert reviews An Inconvenient Truth

      At 09:38 AM 6/4/2006, Edward Kramer wrote:
      I am more frustrated than grieving.

      Don't expect the bosses to lead without encouragement from citizens. Our leaders follow us.  Or more precisely, as practical politicians they do what seems will be successful, so they can't take initiative without support from citizens. 

      You are invited to help Houston Climate Protection Alliance connect and empower folks concerned about the climate at our meeting today, Sunday at 2:30pm.   Samantha Hechtman from Public Citizen of Austin will talk to us about their campaign to bring up this issue in the race for Governor and other initiatives.  Details at www.HoustonClimateProtection.org


      when I see a religious organization invest 100 million to build a church to send out the lords message and not invest 1 penny in RE solar system to provide a small portion of "free" electricity. When I see a government that is talking about ideas and not taking any action. Our Federal Government is begging for local governments to help promote solar energy. A 30% federal income tax credit for commercial installation, think of the med center and the hospitals consumption of electricity. When I see our wonderful microchip technology being developed in solar panels and then being sold abroad to developing countries. (talk about national security issues)because they can get funding for such projects, and you can't get a company interested in installing such system here in Houston-yes I am frustrated but not grieving. To quote a poet-And your wise men don't know how it feels-to be thick as a brick.
      Edward

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Nan Hildreth
      To: hreg@yahoogroups.com ; hreg@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 9:08 AM
      Subject: Re: [hreg] Roger Ebert reviews An Inconvenient Truth

      Dear Edward,

      Are you grieving about global warming?  Let me invite you to share you grief at the meeting below. 

      It's pretty simple and easy to reduce and offset your personal emissions of greenhouse gases.  It's easy to, instead of hurting the climate, heal the climate.  The steps are outlined in http://www.greenhoustonconnection.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=70     Please join us in protecting the climate.

      Emotionally Coping with Ecological Devastation
      Have you ever cried, raged, or carried a cold ball of fear in your gut over what you see happening to our biosphere? While such feelings are often reasonable, if they continue too long, they are bad for you and your effectiveness as an activist. Join Tim Mock and others from the Houston Climate Protection Alliance for a discussion and sharing session to improve our emotional-coping skills, 1-3 PM, Sunday 18 June, First UU Church, 5200 Fannin at Southmore, Room 303.
      If you don't understand how anyone could have such strong negative feelings about an environmental issue, schedule Tim or another HCPA speaker on concepts like overpopulation, ecofootprint, CO2/temperature, and energy supply/demand -- 713-842-6643 for Nan Hildreth




      At 08:42 AM 6/4/2006, Edward Kramer wrote:
      The problem that you have with this film is that it sends out a message of guilt and fear. Most american don't want to address the fact. Its the ostrich in the sand mentality. While watching the news,I couldn;t help be sadden by the Channel 11 newscaster remark about minute maid park, Giff was reporting and mentioned tonights game was going to be hot as the sun was shining. The dinaosaur mentality remarked that they should close the roof and crank up the a/c! We live in a land that caters to consumption over conservation and that is our downfall. We need a postitive education media, probably in the schools to start. A movie like Al Gores is not going to win over many of its advocates,escpecially paid politicians representing rail,coal and oil interests.

       
      Edward Kramer
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: chasmauch@...
      To: houstonpeakoil@... ; hreg@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 6:58 AM
      Subject: [hreg] Roger Ebert reviews An Inconvenient Truth

      AN INCONVENIENT TRUTH
      By Roger Ebert
      dailykos.com
      June 2, 2006

      http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/6/2/19318/43872
      I want to write this review so every reader will begin it and finish it. I
      am a liberal, but I do not intend this as a review reflecting any kind of
      politics. It reflects the truth as I understand it, and it represents, I
      believe, agreement among the world's experts.
      Global warming is real.
      It is caused by human activity.
      Mankind and its governments must begin immediate action to halt and reverse
      it.
      If we do nothing, in about 10 years the planet may reach a "tipping point"
      and begin a slide toward destruction of our civilization and most of the
      other species on this planet.
      After that point is reached, it would be too late for any action.
      These facts are stated by Al Gore in the documentary "An Inconvenient
      Truth." Forget he ever ran for office. Consider him a concerned man speaking
      out on the approaching crisis. "There is no controversy about these facts,"
      he says in the film. "Out of 925 recent articles in peer-review scientific
      journals about global warming, there was no disagreement. Zero."
      He stands on a stage before a vast screen, in front of an audience. The
      documentary is based on a speech he has been developing for six years, and
      is supported by dramatic visuals. He shows the famous photograph
      "Earthrise," taken from space by the first American astronauts. Then he
      shows a series of later space photographs, clearly indicating that glaciers
      and lakes are shrinking, snows are melting, shorelines are retreating.
      He provides statistics: The 10 warmest years in history were in the last 14
      years. Last year South America experienced its first hurricane. Japan and
      the Pacific are setting records for typhoons. Hurricane Katrina passed over
      Florida, doubled back over the Gulf, picked up strength from unusually warm
      Gulf waters, and went from Category 3 to Category 5. There are changes in
      the Gulf Stream and the jet stream. Cores of polar ice show that carbon
      dioxide is much, much higher than ever before in a quarter of a million
      years. It was once thought that such things went in cycles. Gore stands in
      front of a graph showing the ups and downs of carbon dioxide over the
      centuries. Yes, there is a cyclical pattern. Then, in recent years, the
      graph turns up and keeps going up, higher and higher, off the chart.
      The primary man-made cause of global warming is the burning of fossil fuels.
      We are taking energy stored over hundreds of millions of years in the form
      of coal, gas and oil, and releasing it suddenly. This causes global warming,
      and there is a pass-along effect. Since glaciers and snow reflect sunlight
      but sea water absorbs it, the more the ice melts, the more of the sun's
      energy is retained by the sea.
      Gore says that although there is "100 percent agreement" among scientists, a
      database search of newspaper and magazine articles shows that 57 percent
      question the fact of global warming, while 43 percent support it. These
      figures are the result, he says, of a disinformation campaign started in the
      1990s by the energy industries to "reposition global warming as a debate."
      It is the same strategy used for years by the defenders of tobacco. My
      father was a Luckys smoker who died of lung cancer in 1960, and 20 years
      later it was still "debatable" that there was a link between smoking and
      lung cancer. Now we are talking about the death of the future, starting in
      the lives of those now living.
      "The world won't 'end' overnight in 10 years," Gore says. "But a point will
      have been passed, and there will be an irreversible slide into destruction."
      In England, Sir James Lovelock, the scientist who proposed the Gaia
      hypothesis (that the planet functions like a living organism), has published
      a new book saying that in 100 years mankind will be reduced to "a few
      breeding couples at the Poles." Gore thinks "that's too pessimistic. We can
      turn this around just as we reversed the hole in the ozone layer. But it
      takes action right now, and politicians in every nation must have the
      courage to do what is necessary. It is not a political issue. It is a moral
      issue."
      When I said I was going to a press screening of "An Inconvenient Truth," a
      friend said, "Al Gore talking about the environment! Bor...ing!" This is not
      a boring film. The director, Davis Guggenheim, uses words, images and Gore's
      concise litany of facts to build a film that is fascinating and relentless.
      In 39 years, I have never written these words in a movie review, but here
      they are: You owe it to yourself to see this film. If you do not, and you
      have grandchildren, you should explain to them why you decided not to.
      Am I acting as an advocate in this review? Yes, I am. I believe that to be
      "impartial" and "balanced" on global warming means one must take a position
      like Gore's. There is no other view that can be defended. Sen. James Inhofe
      (R-Okla.), chairman of the Senate Environment Committee, has said, "Global
      warming is the greatest hoax ever perpetrated on the American people." I
      hope he takes his job seriously enough to see this film. I think he has a
      responsibility to do that.
      What can we do? Switch to and encourage the development of alternative
      energy sources: Solar, wind, tidal, and, yes, nuclear. Move quickly toward
      hybrid and electric cars. Pour money into public transit, and subsidize the
      fares. Save energy in our houses. I did a funny thing when I came home after
      seeing "An Inconvenient Truth." I went around the house turning off the
      lights.


      SPONSORED LINKS
      Renewable energy Renewable energy resources Renewable energy sources
      Renewable energy system Renewable energy credit Renewable energy news


      YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

       Visit your group "hreg" on the web.
       To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        hreg-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
       Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


      Nan Hildreth, 713-842-6643 NanHildreth@...
      3939 Luca St.  Houston, Tx 77021

      "Life is a daring adventure, or nothing. To keep our faces toward change and behave like free spirits in the presence of fate is strength undefeatable."
      Helen Keller


      SPONSORED LINKS
      Renewable energy Renewable energy resources Renewable energy sources
      Renewable energy system Renewable energy credit Renewable energy news


      YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

       Visit your group "hreg" on the web.
       To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        hreg-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
       Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


      Nan Hildreth, 713-842-6643 NanHildreth@...
      3939 Luca St.  Houston, Tx 77021

      "Life is a daring adventure, or nothing. To keep our faces toward change and behave like free spirits in the presence of fate is strength undefeatable."
      Helen Keller

    • William & Cynthia Stange
      Sadly this is true, the propaganda machine is more the rule than the exception. The people of the United States have deveoped a sense of comfort and attitude
      Message 3 of 23 , Jun 4, 2006
      • 0 Attachment
        Sadly this is true, the propaganda machine is more the rule than the exception. The people of the United States have deveoped a sense of comfort and attitude that "it cannot happen here." Until disaster acually smacks them in the ass will people react. Moreover the price we pay for energy is just a placebo at this point, willing to complain about the cost is only ONE bottom line. Until we realize AND act that we as a inhabitant of this planet have only a finite amount of resources (air,water,food and energy) and that the lack of any of these actually get us out of our "comfort zone" will we do something. When fuel is five bucks a gallon and only available once a month will we trade in our petro suckers. Only when there is limited foodstuffs in the markets at unbelievable prices will we begin to plant our own gardens and food crops. When the people that are most affected suffer to survive daily means to find protection from the elements, food and housing and will resort to any means to achieve that will we realize sustainability should have started twenty years ago. We seem to have this aptitude to do nothing until the very last moment then violently react. Our government is even further behind its constituents and will be able to do very little constructive governing, instead to stem the bleeding, create more propaganda that everything is OK, trust us. ??? Unfortunately our government right now is more adept at "destructive and deceptive" governing. I would love to say that my family and I are close to the Earth and able to understand these changes and help to make the change. Being close to nature and observation are indeed only two of the tools we use in Permaculture.
        In my opinion there should be a country/government called "The United States of American Sustainabilty." Governed by and for sustainability, with no questions about laws regarding environmental protection/restoration, protecting farming principles, renewable energies, RECYCLING( a huge industry), businesses that support and grow technologies for planet protection around the world, education (of all technologies) and the cooperation between other nations under stress. When will MONEY & GREED give way to survival of ourselves and the continued survival of this little blue planet.
        Yeah, I know it sounds like some Utopian zealot and I can understand that, but if you boil it down our current world situation that is, it looks pretty crappy, selfish and quite like the science fiction novels we have all read. If we as inhabitants ( not Americans, Chinese, Russians, Europeans etc.) manage to scew-up photosynthesis on this planet, all bets are off, we will be screwed, think about it.
        Thank you all for letting me blither here, I am pissed, saddened and mixed with a tiny flame of hope and excitement that we can accomodate change.
         
                                                         Thanks to all, Bill Stange

        Renewable energyRenewable energy resourcesRenewable energy sources
        Renewable energy systemRenewable energy creditRenewable energy news

      • Edward Kramer
        Bill, Don t fret too much, the american spirit is alive and well. there are some wonderful technolgies being developed by solar R&D supported by our President.
        Message 4 of 23 , Jun 4, 2006
        • 0 Attachment
          Bill,
           
           Don't fret too much, the american spirit is alive and well. there are some wonderful technolgies being developed by solar R&D supported by our President. There will be glass and paint solar chip technology available to make cars run on the sun energy, fuel cell improvement, probably 5 years down the road. You ae going to see some explosive energy technolgoy coming, just as the PC start up, affordable by a few (4000.00) sysems to a price below 200! The solar industry is a spin off , using micro chip processing technolgy to convert suns energy (photons) to electrons. Houston once was a leader in PC revoloution( Compaque)-what has happened to this city desire for only polloution!
          Keep the spirit, we are working hard to educate the public.
           
          Edward
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 10:21 AM
          Subject: Re: [hreg] Roger Ebert reviews An Inconvenient Truth

          Sadly this is true, the propaganda machine is more the rule than the exception. The people of the United States have deveoped a sense of comfort and attitude that "it cannot happen here." Until disaster acually smacks them in the ass will people react. Moreover the price we pay for energy is just a placebo at this point, willing to complain about the cost is only ONE bottom line. Until we realize AND act that we as a inhabitant of this planet have only a finite amount of resources (air,water,food and energy) and that the lack of any of these actually get us out of our "comfort zone" will we do something. When fuel is five bucks a gallon and only available once a month will we trade in our petro suckers. Only when there is limited foodstuffs in the markets at unbelievable prices will we begin to plant our own gardens and food crops. When the people that are most affected suffer to survive daily means to find protection from the elements, food and housing and will resort to any means to achieve that will we realize sustainability should have started twenty years ago. We seem to have this aptitude to do nothing until the very last moment then violently react. Our government is even further behind its constituents and will be able to do very little constructive governing, instead to stem the bleeding, create more propaganda that everything is OK, trust us. ??? Unfortunately our government right now is more adept at "destructive and deceptive" governing. I would love to say that my family and I are close to the Earth and able to understand these changes and help to make the change. Being close to nature and observation are indeed only two of the tools we use in Permaculture.
          In my opinion there should be a country/government called "The United States of American Sustainabilty." Governed by and for sustainability, with no questions about laws regarding environmental protection/restoration, protecting farming principles, renewable energies, RECYCLING( a huge industry), businesses that support and grow technologies for planet protection around the world, education (of all technologies) and the cooperation between other nations under stress. When will MONEY & GREED give way to survival of ourselves and the continued survival of this little blue planet.
          Yeah, I know it sounds like some Utopian zealot and I can understand that, but if you boil it down our current world situation that is, it looks pretty crappy, selfish and quite like the science fiction novels we have all read. If we as inhabitants ( not Americans, Chinese, Russians, Europeans etc.) manage to scew-up photosynthesis on this planet, all bets are off, we will be screwed, think about it.
          Thank you all for letting me blither here, I am pissed, saddened and mixed with a tiny flame of hope and excitement that we can accomodate change.
           
                                                           Thanks to all, Bill Stange

          Renewable energyRenewable energy resourcesRenewable energy sources
          Renewable energy systemRenewable energy creditRenewable energy news

        • Sarah Carriger
          I do not understand the comment of where the children are going to play. Same place they played before the turn of the 20th century - before oil production
          Message 5 of 23 , Jun 4, 2006
          • 0 Attachment
            I do not understand the comment of where the children are going to play.  Same place they played before the turn of the 20th century - before oil production became a big business - outside.  If fossil fuel is causing global warming, then isn't this a good thing that we run out of fossil fuels???  This planet and her inhabitants survived just fine without oil and we can do it again.  It appears that only when the supply is indeed limited will there be any advances in alternative energy production, because at that point there will be no choice.


            Edward Kramer wrote:
            Thanks for the invite, but I would rather conserve my fuel, as the round trip from my house is costly and I will do my part to help the future. Remeber, there is only 70-80 year supply of fossil fuel in the world. Where are the chiildren going to play?

          • Edward Kramer
            A geophysicist will argue that we are in a natural warming caused by changing sea levels, shift in plates and natural changes in the jet stream. Global warming
            Message 6 of 23 , Jun 4, 2006
            • 0 Attachment
              A geophysicist will argue that we are in a natural warming caused by changing sea levels, shift in plates and natural changes in the jet stream. Global warming might be a small cause of the natural warming trend, and the earth atmosphee can handle any Co2 gases that we humans combust. Electricity is suppose to make our life better, and if we do not find a sustainable source of electricity, life for our children and theirs will revert to prehistoric times. We are here for a very short time, we should only borrow from mother nature, not take. If we deplete the carbon resources,
              what is the next generation going to do for the very basic building life of all matter-black carbon. Rather than utilizing the carbon for the solid production of physical goods, we are burning it up in combustion for electricity. Once its gone, its gone. If we do not wake up and make some serious changes in our lifestyles, how we use the exiting resources, the future does not look so bright the children. 
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 6:53 PM
              Subject: Re: [hreg] Roger Ebert reviews An Inconvenient Truth

              I do not understand the comment of where the children are going to play.  Same place they played before the turn of the 20th century - before oil production became a big business - outside.  If fossil fuel is causing global warming, then isn't this a good thing that we run out of fossil fuels???  This planet and her inhabitants survived just fine without oil and we can do it again.  It appears that only when the supply is indeed limited will there be any advances in alternative energy production, because at that point there will be no choice.


              Edward Kramer wrote:
              Thanks for the invite, but I would rather conserve my fuel, as the round trip from my house is costly and I will do my part to help the future. Remeber, there is only 70-80 year supply of fossil fuel in the world. Where are the chiildren going to play?

            • pencil1959
              Maybe I m misunderstanding your comments, but please note that: (1) black carbon is not the basic building block of life; (2) carbon is an element that is
              Message 7 of 23 , Jun 4, 2006
              • 0 Attachment
                Maybe I'm misunderstanding your comments, but please note that:
                (1) "black carbon" is not the basic building block of life; (2)
                carbon is an element that is indeed the building block of life; (3)
                carbon in various molecular forms is "burned" by animals every day
                to form CO2; (4) CO2 is "recycled" by plants that convert it into
                sugars, cellulose, etc. that are then used by animals via #2, as
                well as used for building houses, burning to heat them, etc.; marine
                invertebrates fix a lot of CO2 by incorporation into carbonates,
                which we humans also use in various ways; (5) I haven't read any
                serious scientists proposing that we will exhaust the world's carbon
                supply by burning it up; (6) none of this is to dispute that CO2
                levels are at record highs, but simply to remind HREG readers that
                the chemistry of the carbon cycle is complex and varied because it
                IS the foundation of life--let's try to keep the basic facts
                straight.

                Robert Johnston


                --- In hreg@yahoogroups.com, "Edward Kramer" <onekindr@...> wrote:
                >
                > A geophysicist will argue that we are in a natural warming caused
                by changing sea levels, shift in plates and natural changes in the
                jet stream. Global warming might be a small cause of the natural
                warming trend, and the earth atmosphee can handle any Co2 gases that
                we humans combust. Electricity is suppose to make our life better,
                and if we do not find a sustainable source of electricity, life for
                our children and theirs will revert to prehistoric times. We are
                here for a very short time, we should only borrow from mother
                nature, not take. If we deplete the carbon resources,
                > what is the next generation going to do for the very basic
                building life of all matter-black carbon. Rather than utilizing the
                carbon for the solid production of physical goods, we are burning it
                up in combustion for electricity. Once its gone, its gone. If we do
                not wake up and make some serious changes in our lifestyles, how we
                use the exiting resources, the future does not look so bright the
                children.
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: Sarah Carriger
                > To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 6:53 PM
                > Subject: Re: [hreg] Roger Ebert reviews An Inconvenient Truth
                >
                >
                > I do not understand the comment of where the children are going
                to play. Same place they played before the turn of the 20th
                century - before oil production became a big business - outside. If
                fossil fuel is causing global warming, then isn't this a good thing
                that we run out of fossil fuels??? This planet and her inhabitants
                survived just fine without oil and we can do it again. It appears
                that only when the supply is indeed limited will there be any
                advances in alternative energy production, because at that point
                there will be no choice.
                >
                >
                > Edward Kramer wrote:
                > Thanks for the invite, but I would rather conserve my fuel, as
                the round trip from my house is costly and I will do my part to help
                the future. Remeber, there is only 70-80 year supply of fossil fuel
                in the world. Where are the chiildren going to play?
                >
                >
                >
                > SPONSORED LINKS Renewable energy Renewable energy resources
                Renewable energy sources
                > Renewable energy system Renewable energy news Houston
                texas
                >
                >
                > -------------------------------------------------------------------
                -----------
                > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                >
                > a.. Visit your group "hreg" on the web.
                >
                > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > hreg-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                >
                > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
                of Service.
                >
                >
                > -------------------------------------------------------------------
                -----------
                >
              • Edward Kramer
                Maybe what I meant to say is carbon is in your every day life -from the tires on the car (are they rubber): or the PC housing, to the packageing of your
                Message 8 of 23 , Jun 5, 2006
                • 0 Attachment
                  Maybe what I meant to say is carbon is in your every day life -from the tires on the car (are they rubber): or the PC housing, to the packageing of your groceries etc. That is our foundation of consumer products. Does a barrel of oil go for 100 % usage of  gasoline and petrol products? Next time you eat a chocolate bar, think of what is in that chocolate bar. The real treasure thats in  oil is the refined black carbon, the building block of a plastics. Plastics equate to consumption which equals growth. The delimea we face is how to conserve. If you watch PBS, even Chevron advertises that half the worlds energy supply is used up, the problem is how to effectively use the rest. For sure, it is going to be more expensive, and hence under a capitilistic system, the growth of other competing dollar entities are going to shrink. That is not a good thing at all. The city of Houston has not not taken heed to this warning. they are by far the largest user of electricity, yet have not one action plan to make changes. I heard they found some federal money and invested in a wind farm at King Ranch. Maybe they can open an annex buiding next door.
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 11:37 PM
                  Subject: [hreg] Re: Roger Ebert reviews An Inconvenient Truth

                  Maybe I'm misunderstanding your comments, but please note that: 
                  (1) "black carbon" is not the basic building block of life; (2)
                  carbon is an element that is indeed the building block of life; (3)
                  carbon in various molecular forms is "burned" by animals every day
                  to form CO2; (4) CO2 is "recycled" by plants that convert it into
                  sugars, cellulose, etc. that are then used by animals via #2, as
                  well as used for building houses, burning to heat them, etc.; marine
                  invertebrates fix a lot of CO2 by incorporation into carbonates,
                  which we humans also use in various ways; (5) I haven't read any
                  serious scientists proposing that we will exhaust the world's carbon
                  supply by burning it up; (6) none of this is to dispute that CO2
                  levels are at record highs, but simply to remind HREG readers that
                  the chemistry of the carbon cycle is complex and varied because it
                  IS the foundation of life--let's try to keep the basic facts
                  straight.

                  Robert Johnston


                  --- In hreg@yahoogroups.com, "Edward Kramer" <onekindr@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > A geophysicist will argue that we are in a natural warming caused
                  by changing sea levels, shift in plates and natural changes in the
                  jet stream. Global warming might be a small cause of the natural
                  warming trend, and the earth atmosphee can handle any Co2 gases that
                  we humans combust. Electricity is suppose to make our life better,
                  and if we do not find a sustainable source of electricity, life for
                  our children and theirs will revert to prehistoric times. We are
                  here for a very short time, we should only borrow from mother
                  nature, not take. If we deplete the carbon resources,
                  > what is the next generation going to do for the very basic
                  building life of all matter-black carbon. Rather than utilizing the
                  carbon for the solid production of physical goods, we are burning it
                  up in combustion for electricity. Once its gone, its gone. If we do
                  not wake up and make some serious changes in our lifestyles, how we
                  use the exiting resources, the future does not look so bright the
                  children.
                  >   ----- Original Message -----
                  >   From: Sarah Carriger
                  >   To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                  >   Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 6:53 PM
                  >   Subject: Re: [hreg] Roger Ebert reviews An Inconvenient Truth
                  >
                  >
                  >   I do not understand the comment of where the children are going
                  to play.  Same place they played before the turn of the 20th
                  century - before oil production became a big business - outside.  If
                  fossil fuel is causing global warming, then isn't this a good thing
                  that we run out of fossil fuels???  This planet and her inhabitants
                  survived just fine without oil and we can do it again.  It appears
                  that only when the supply is indeed limited will there be any
                  advances in alternative energy production, because at that point
                  there will be no choice.
                  >
                  >
                  >   Edward Kramer wrote:
                  >     Thanks for the invite, but I would rather conserve my fuel, as
                  the round trip from my house is costly and I will do my part to help
                  the future. Remeber, there is only 70-80 year supply of fossil fuel
                  in the world. Where are the chiildren going to play?
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >   SPONSORED LINKS Renewable energy  Renewable energy resources 
                  Renewable energy sources 
                  >         Renewable energy system  Renewable energy news  Houston
                  texas 
                  >
                  >
                  > -------------------------------------------------------------------
                  -----------
                  >   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                  >
                  >     a..  Visit your group "hreg" on the web.
                  >      
                  >     b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  >      hreg-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  >      
                  >     c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
                  of Service.
                  >
                  >
                  > -------------------------------------------------------------------
                  -----------
                  >





                • will thurmond
                  Edward I ll try to say this politely - please step off the soapbox. You have repeatedly made unsubstantiated statements on the HREG listserv, much to the
                  Message 9 of 23 , Jun 5, 2006
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Edward

                    I'll try to say this politely - please step off the soapbox. You have repeatedly made unsubstantiated statements on the HREG listserv, much to the chagrin of its members.   You should know what you're talking about before making declarations.  If you research what you wish to discuss before you enter the "soapbox zone", you will understand the issue.  You will also have factual, actual, information to substantiate your argument, and a solid platform to stand on. Please employ more facts and less conjecture and hyperbole in your entries.


                    One example - you said "The city of Houston has not not taken heed to this warning. they are by far the largest user of electricity, yet have not one action plan to make changes."   Where did you get this information from Edward? An update to your statement in the p.s. will bring you current on this "declaration."

                    I wish you all the best in expressing yourself as factually as you do actually.  You will find greater support for your ideas if they are defend-able.  Good luck.

                    Will

                    p.s.  here is some information on Houston's Alternative Energy initiatives that will update your last statement. You will learn there are "more than a few" Alt-Energy initiatives in Houston, contrary to your previous statements.   That is, if you have a real interest in Renewable Energy and Alt-Energy projects. Otherwise, you wouldn't be here, right?

                    ========================================

                    Alternative Energy Industry Guide to Houston
                    http://www.houston.org/industryGuide/alternativeEnergy.asp

                    As the Energy Capital of the World, Houston uses its spirit of innovation and collaboration to forge new ground across all aspects of the energy sector.

                    Extensive research and development is underway on developing energy sources that are not based on the burning of fossil fuels or the splitting of atoms. These include geothermal, wind, tide, solar, ground source heat pumps, biofuels hydroelectric and hydrogen fuel cells. The Greater Houston Partnership is working with area organizations to develop and demonstrate advanced hydrogen and fuel cell technologies that will reduce our nation's dependency on oil, improve air quality and maintain the region's economic competitiveness.

                    Houston has the tools and infrastructure in place to capitalize on this emerging sector of the energy industry.

                    Industry Facts:

                    • Texas is one of the top three states in the country in wind power potential
                    • In 2003, Texas installed more wind power than the entire United States had in any other year
                    • Many of Houston's school crossing lights are powered by solar energy

                    Green Mountain Energy Case Study

                    Green Mountain Energy is one of 11 electric retailers from whom Houstonians can purchase their electric power. Much of Green Mountain Energy's source for electricity is wind power.

                    The Green Mountain Energy Wind Farm in Borden and Scurry counties in West Texas produces enough electricity to power 30,000 homes.

                    Alternative Energy Downloadable Fact Sheet

                    Who's Who in Houston Alternative Enery:

                    Alternative Energy Resources:

                    • Business Development Division of the Greater Houston Partnership
                    • Houston Advanced Research Center
                    • Houston Energy Collaborative
                    • Houston Technology Center

                    Energy Events in Houston

                    Energy events bring together top talent, innovation and information.

                    • Energy events in Houston include: the Offshore Technology Conference (OTC) and the Energy Venture Forum. Held annually in Houston, OTC is the energy industry's premier conference and exhibition focused on deepwater offshore technology. The 51,320 participants from 110 nations in 2005 represented OTC's highest attendance since 1985. The exhibition included 2,087 exhibiting companies, totaling more than 410,000 net square feet, filling all available indoor and outdoor space.
                    • The Energy Venture Forum at Houston's Rice University introduces the most promising early-stage energy-related technology companies to leading venture capitalists. Participants hear about cutting-edge research and learn about emerging technology developments in traditional and alternative energy. Approximately 450 attendees participated in 2004.

                    Energy Resources in Houston

                    Where to go and what to do if you're thinking of starting, moving or expanding your business in Houston.

                    Some fuel for thought: From oil and gas to chemical development and production, the 10-county Houston region is the center of all things energy. The region offers a solid energy and chemical foundation and a workforce skilled in meeting the sector's needs. The region's large concentration of oil expertise and experience is a magnet attracting more oil expertise and experience to the area.

                    The Greater Houston Partnership has a unique place among business organizations. It combines opportunities for economic development, international business and public policy development. As the Houston region's primary business advocate, the Partnership helps keep businesses connected and works in their interests.

                    Energy Facts

                    • Forty-eight percent of the region's economic base employment is related to energy.
                    • Houston is headquarters for 17 energy-related Fortune 500 companies.
                    • Houston is home to the cutting-edge Offshore Technology Conference (OTC).
                    • Houston houses more than 3,600 energy-related establishments.
                    • Houston is home to 13 of the nation's 20 largest natural gas transmission companies.
                    • Houston has nearly 600 exploration and production firms.
                    • Houston has more than 170 pipeline operators.
                    • Hundreds of manufacturers of energy-sector products call Houston home.

                    In recent years, industry giants such as CITGO and Noble and smaller energy-related companies including Johnson Engineering and Hydralift, Inc. have relocated to Houston. Another 192 energy businesses have found Houston fertile ground for growth. In every case, expansions and relocations equal jobs for the Houston region.

                    Houston Entrepreneurial Enterprises Facts:

                    • The Houston region is home to more than 85,000 small businesses
                    • Houston's dynamic economy, well-developed information technology sector, talented workforce, business-friendly environment, low costs of living and ease of doing business make it a natural magnet for entrepreneurs.
                    • Houston ranked #2 on the Milken Institute's 2003 Best-Performing Cities Index
                    • Site Selection magazine ranked the Houston-Baytown-Sugar Land metro area in the top 10 of Metro Areas for Investment in its March, 2004 issue
                    • Houston has the lowest cost of living among the country's 24 largest metropolitan areas, according to the ACCRA Cost of Living Index for the first quarter of 2005
                    • With no state personal income or state property taxes, Houston has one of the lowest per-family tax burdens of any major U.S. city

                    Enterpreneurial Enterprises Resources:

                    • The Greater Houston Partnership Emerging Business Council
                    • The Greater Houston Partnership Business Development Division
                    • Texas Economic Development Web site
                    • Small Business Administration
                    • University of Houston Small Business Development Center

                    Enterpreneurial Enterprises Events:

                    The Greater Houston Partnership Super Summit, held yearly, helps emerging businesses learn to better partner with established corporations


                    ============================================

                    Oil Companies, Experts Discuss Alternative Energy Development
                    http://www.voanews.com/english/archive/2006-02/2006-02-07-voa1.cfm?CFID=14451546&CFTOKEN=59544590
                    By Greg Flakus
                    Houston 07 February 2006



                    Around 1,800 oil and gas company executives, government energy ministers and other players in the world energy sector have gathered in Houston for a special emphasis on developing new sources of energy.

                    The theme for this year's conference is "The New Prize: Energy's Next Era," and that encompasses everything from extraction of oil from Canada's extensive tar sands to development of solar power and ethanol.

                    CERA Senior Advisor James Rosenfield is one of the three men who founded the conference in 1983. He tells VOA that many of the big oil companies represented here are already investing a lot of money in alternative energy programs.

                    "A lot of the new economy of energy is going to be driven by the international oil companies such as Shell, BP and Exxon, who are really investing billions and billions of dollars in R and D (Research and Development) for new sources of supply, solar alternatives, fuel cells, distributed generation, really across the spectrum," Rosenfield said. "In the case of BP, their focus has been on electric power, actually, using a lot of their technology to look at alternative and renewable sources of electric power generation."

                    Rosenfield says using CERAWeek to focus on such issues as alternative energy, non-conventional oil sources and conservation could have important consequences worldwide because participants represent every aspect of the international energy business.

                    "We will have exploration and production companies, national oil companies, integrated oil companies, but also utilities, energy end users, consumers such as Dow and Boeing and some of the automotive companies as well and then the financial institutions that provide the capital, in many cases, for the industry," he said.

                    Included in the mix of participants are representatives from several member nations of the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries, known as OPEC. One of the chief speakers at the opening ceremony Tuesday will be Saudi Arabia's Oil Minister, Ali Naimi.

                    OPEC leaders have at times expressed concern over US and European efforts to develop alternative energy because it could divert investment from development of conventional energy sources. In an appearance here in Houston last year, the head of the Saudi oil company, Aramco, said his nation's vast oil reserves represent a reliable supply of energy that alternative energy programs are not likely to equal any time soon.

                    But Rosenfield says he does not believe the Saudis are against development of other energy sources.

                    "I think that the Saudis actually take a view that we are in this together, that we need to build the world's oil and energy supply, to build a stable and diversified supply base," he added. "We will hear from Mr. Naimi and what he has to say, but, while they are committed to an oil and hydrocarbon economy, they also recognize that over multi-decades we are going to be looking towards a lot of different sources of supply as well."

                    In his state of the union address last week, President Bush called for programs that would lessen U.S. dependence on foreign sources of oil and gave special emphasis to the development of biofuels like ethanol. Brazil, which has a successful ethanol program based on fuel from sugar cane, is also represented at CERAWeek and Rosenfield says he expects a lot of discussion among participants about such programs.

                    =====================================



                    On 6/5/06, Edward Kramer <onekindr@...> wrote:
                    Maybe what I meant to say is carbon is in your every day life -from the tires on the car (are they rubber): or the PC housing, to the packageing of your groceries etc. That is our foundation of consumer products. Does a barrel of oil go for 100 % usage of  gasoline and petrol products? Next time you eat a chocolate bar, think of what is in that chocolate bar. The real treasure thats in  oil is the refined black carbon, the building block of a plastics. Plastics equate to consumption which equals growth. The delimea we face is how to conserve. If you watch PBS, even Chevron advertises that half the worlds energy supply is used up, the problem is how to effectively use the rest. For sure, it is going to be more expensive, and hence under a capitilistic system, the growth of other competing dollar entities are going to shrink. That is not a good thing at all. The city of Houston has not not taken heed to this warning. they are by far the largest user of electricity, yet have not one action plan to make changes. I heard they found some federal money and invested in a wind farm at King Ranch. Maybe they can open an annex buiding next door.
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: pencil1959
                    Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 11:37 PM
                    Subject: [hreg] Re: Roger Ebert reviews An Inconvenient Truth

                    Maybe I'm misunderstanding your comments, but please note that: 
                    (1) "black carbon" is not the basic building block of life; (2)
                    carbon is an element that is indeed the building block of life; (3)
                    carbon in various molecular forms is "burned" by animals every day
                    to form CO2; (4) CO2 is "recycled" by plants that convert it into
                    sugars, cellulose, etc. that are then used by animals via #2, as
                    well as used for building houses, burning to heat them, etc.; marine
                    invertebrates fix a lot of CO2 by incorporation into carbonates,
                    which we humans also use in various ways; (5) I haven't read any
                    serious scientists proposing that we will exhaust the world's carbon
                    supply by burning it up; (6) none of this is to dispute that CO2
                    levels are at record highs, but simply to remind HREG readers that
                    the chemistry of the carbon cycle is complex and varied because it
                    IS the foundation of life--let's try to keep the basic facts
                    straight.

                    Robert Johnston


                    --- In hreg@yahoogroups.com, "Edward Kramer" <onekindr@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > A geophysicist will argue that we are in a natural warming caused
                    by changing sea levels, shift in plates and natural changes in the
                    jet stream. Global warming might be a small cause of the natural
                    warming trend, and the earth atmosphee can handle any Co2 gases that
                    we humans combust. Electricity is suppose to make our life better,
                    and if we do not find a sustainable source of electricity, life for
                    our children and theirs will revert to prehistoric times. We are
                    here for a very short time, we should only borrow from mother
                    nature, not take. If we deplete the carbon resources,
                    > what is the next generation going to do for the very basic
                    building life of all matter-black carbon. Rather than utilizing the
                    carbon for the solid production of physical goods, we are burning it
                    up in combustion for electricity. Once its gone, its gone. If we do
                    not wake up and make some serious changes in our lifestyles, how we
                    use the exiting resources, the future does not look so bright the
                    children.
                    >   ----- Original Message -----
                    >   From: Sarah Carriger
                    >   To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                    >   Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 6:53 PM
                    >   Subject: Re: [hreg] Roger Ebert reviews An Inconvenient Truth
                    >
                    >
                    >   I do not understand the comment of where the children are going
                    to play.  Same place they played before the turn of the 20th
                    century - before oil production became a big business - outside.  If
                    fossil fuel is causing global warming, then isn't this a good thing
                    that we run out of fossil fuels???  This planet and her inhabitants
                    survived just fine without oil and we can do it again.  It appears
                    that only when the supply is indeed limited will there be any
                    advances in alternative energy production, because at that point
                    there will be no choice.
                    >
                    >
                    >   Edward Kramer wrote:
                    >     Thanks for the invite, but I would rather conserve my fuel, as
                    the round trip from my house is costly and I will do my part to help
                    the future. Remeber, there is only 70-80 year supply of fossil fuel
                    in the world. Where are the chiildren going to play?
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >   SPONSORED LINKS Renewable energy  Renewable energy resources 
                    Renewable energy sources 
                    >         Renewable energy system  Renewable energy news  Houston
                    texas 
                    >
                    >
                    > -------------------------------------------------------------------
                    -----------
                    >   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                    >
                    >     a..  Visit your group "hreg" on the web.
                    >      
                    >     b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    >      hreg-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    >      
                    >     c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
                    of Service.
                    >
                    >
                    > -------------------------------------------------------------------
                    -----------
                    >







                    SPONSORED LINKS
                    Renewable energy Renewable energy resources Renewable energy sources
                    Renewable energy system Renewable energy news Houston texas


                    YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS




                  • Paul Archer
                    ... [massive snippage] Will, I wholeheartedly agree with you in that *whoever* is speaking in a forum like this should have his/her facts together first. And I
                    Message 10 of 23 , Jun 5, 2006
                    • 0 Attachment
                      7:00am, will thurmond wrote:

                      > Edward
                      >
                      > I'll try to say this politely - please step off the soapbox. You have
                      > repeatedly made unsubstantiated statements on the HREG listserv, much to the
                      > chagrin of its members. You should know what you're talking about before
                      > making declarations. If you research what you wish to discuss before you
                      > enter the "soapbox zone", you will understand the issue. You will also have
                      > factual, actual, information to substantiate your argument, and a solid
                      > platform to stand on. Please employ more facts and less conjecture and
                      > hyperbole in your entries.
                      >
                      > One example - you said "The city of Houston has not not taken heed to this
                      > warning. they are by far the largest user of electricity, yet have not one
                      > action plan to make changes." Where did you get this information from
                      > Edward? An update to your statement in the p.s. will bring you current on
                      > this "declaration."
                      >
                      > I wish you all the best in expressing yourself as factually as you do
                      > actually. You will find greater support for your ideas if they are
                      > defend-able. Good luck.
                      >
                      > Will
                      >
                      > p.s. here is some information on Houston's Alternative Energy initiatives
                      > that will update your last statement. You will learn there are "more than a
                      > few" Alt-Energy initiatives in Houston, contrary to your previous
                      > statements. That is, if you have a real interest in Renewable Energy and
                      > Alt-Energy projects. Otherwise, you wouldn't be here, right?
                      >
                      [massive snippage]

                      Will, I wholeheartedly agree with you in that *whoever* is speaking in a
                      forum like this should have his/her facts together first.
                      And I agree that Edward did not back up his claim that "[t]he City of
                      Houston ...have not one action plan to make changes." However, I think you
                      misread his statement, as the the information you included (which I've
                      snipped for space) did not counter that charge.
                      The specific claim was, I believe, that the City of Houston (that is the
                      munincipal government, not the inhabitants of Houston as a whole), which
                      most likely is the single largest consumer of electricity in the city, has
                      not taken action to reduce its energy usage. Your included information did
                      mention solar-powered school "crossing" lights (although I think it meant
                      school zone lights). I've seen these and similar lights all over the
                      country. They do save electricity, but considering how much light they put
                      out (a blink or two a second for two hours a day 5 days a week, 9 months a
                      year), I would guess that the primary motivation for them is to save
                      installation costs rather than power.

                      Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is just that I think Edward does bring
                      up a good point: I don't know *what* the City of Houston is up to as far as
                      energy consumption and conservation, but I'd like to find out.


                      Paul
                    • chasmauch@aol.com
                      It seems pretty obvious to me that there is a lot of wasted energy in Houston, although I have no idea exactly how much. Here are a couple of things I have
                      Message 11 of 23 , Jun 5, 2006
                      • 0 Attachment
                        It seems pretty obvious to me that there is a lot of wasted energy in Houston, although I have no idea exactly how much. Here are a couple of things I have long wondered about:
                         
                        1.  You can look at the city's skyline at any hour - say 2am - and all the big buildings are lit up like Christmas trees. They have to be lit during the day when people are working there, but why all night too - in essence 24 hours per day? I know the cleaning crews are at work but presumably they only do one or two floors at a time, after which it seems they could turn out the lights and go to the next floor. I have heard that it's cheaper (considering bulb life) to leave a florescent light on all the time than it is to turn it on and off - is that the reason they do it? And might that have been true in the days of cheap energy but no longer so?
                         
                        Same goes with computers - I have heard that they use a surprising amount of energy when you leave them on all the time (as most folks like me do) because for some reason it is harmful to turn them on and off every day. There are millions of them around these days in both offices and residences.
                         
                        I realize the buildings and most of the computers do not belong to the city - they are privately owned, but still the city could provide leadership in doing something about fairly simple things like that (and various other things) if they just gathered up some data and publicized it. Or are these two items of much less importance? I admit I don't have the facts.
                         
                        Charlie Mauch
                      • Bashir Syed
                        I have been reading this discussion after returning from China, previous weekend. As a physicist who spent two years working for Rockwell International
                        Message 12 of 23 , Jun 5, 2006
                        • 0 Attachment
                          I have been reading this discussion after returning from China, previous weekend. As a physicist who  spent two years working for Rockwell International Science Center in early seventies incharge of the instrumentation to collect Air Pollution data under an EPA contract. We must understand the Solar Energy which comes from SUN in the form of Electromagentic Waves (light is a part of visible portion of the electromagnetic waves of the electromagnetic waves spectrum) called Photons. The energy of the photons according to deBroglie, the energy of photons is proportional to the frequency of the photons (or inversely proportional to the wavelength of photons) striking matter (solid, liquid, and gas). This energy is transfered to the receiving medium atmosphere and earth. Our atmosphere is composed of many gases (which abosrb energy from these photons) and solid particulate matter (which scatters radiation).  When we look at the Irradiance of incident solar radiation plotted against the wavelength of photons, we find many absorption bands characteristic of various components of our atmosphere (Ozone, water vapor, oxygen, and carbon dioxide). It turns out that in the case of Carbon-dioxide, this absorbed energy appears in the form of Thermal energy or heat which is transfered to other molecules in the air. Thus the larger the number of carbon dioxide molecules are present in the atmosphere the more heat transfer takes place which in turn apears as increase in the temperature of materials in contact with air on earth. Thus the earth warming is a reality and not fiction. The increase of Carbon-dioxide translates into cummulative effect of all molecules which is observed as increased thermal energy. Carbon dioxide has absorption bands in the region of about 1.8 microns  and beyond 2.4 microns  of wavelength ( one micron = 0.000,001 meter). Ozone absorbs photons in the UV range, and any depletion of Ozone translates into transmission of Photons of Ultra-Violet (UV) which interacts with the cells of our skin, and long exposure of UV translates into Carecenoma or Skin Cancer.
                          Unless people become aware of this phenomenon based on laws of Physics, which are universal in nature (and do not obey the laws of Oil industry), the scientists are not talking rubbish as often conveyed in the media to confuse citizens/tax-payers.
                          There was an article published in "IEEE Spectrum magazine" regarding the RF pollution caused by Cellular Phone Networks, in December 2002 issue pertaining to interaction of radiation emanating from the cell phones with brain, which penetrates to a depth of about three inches inside our skull/brain. As we know that RF energy interacts with cells which contain water molecules. The high frequencies used  by most Cell phones caused transfer of energy in the form of heat to water molecules, causing damage to cells in the brain tissue, which may eventually take the shape of tumors in the brain if a person is not careful about the time spent on the Cell phones (the effects of any kind of radiation are cummulative).
                           
                          Here is something which will startle you. During the 1991 Gulf War, our government blamed Iraqi troops for setting up the "oil well fires in Kuwait," but the truth is far from this PR job. According to an article "Why Are Data from Kuwait Being Withheld?" [by John Horgan, Scientific American, page 20, July 1991] The  Bush administration in 1991, ordered NOAA to withhold  Satellite data being forwarded to EPA, and later on when this matter was exposed by the media they had the same attitude of coverup using the excuse "the task force is supposed to give information to Kuwait and Saudi Arabia first" before considering it for release to US scientists. I would recommend all to read this one page article in Scientific American in order to learn how politics plays the role to spread disinformation in order to sway public opinion, by the politicians supported by their industrial supporters/constituents.   
                           
                          Bashir A. Syed
                          Member: ASES, ISES, APS, IEEE, UCS, New York Academy of Sciences
                          Member of Radiation Safety Committee NASA/JSC (1995-2003).
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 7:28 AM
                          Subject: Re: [hreg] Re: Roger Ebert reviews An Inconvenient Truth

                          Maybe what I meant to say is carbon is in your every day life -from the tires on the car (are they rubber): or the PC housing, to the packageing of your groceries etc. That is our foundation of consumer products. Does a barrel of oil go for 100 % usage of  gasoline and petrol products? Next time you eat a chocolate bar, think of what is in that chocolate bar. The real treasure thats in  oil is the refined black carbon, the building block of a plastics. Plastics equate to consumption which equals growth. The delimea we face is how to conserve. If you watch PBS, even Chevron advertises that half the worlds energy supply is used up, the problem is how to effectively use the rest. For sure, it is going to be more expensive, and hence under a capitilistic system, the growth of other competing dollar entities are going to shrink. That is not a good thing at all. The city of Houston has not not taken heed to this warning. they are by far the largest user of electricity, yet have not one action plan to make changes. I heard they found some federal money and invested in a wind farm at King Ranch. Maybe they can open an annex buiding next door.
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 11:37 PM
                          Subject: [hreg] Re: Roger Ebert reviews An Inconvenient Truth

                          Maybe I'm misunderstanding your comments, but please note that: 
                          (1) "black carbon" is not the basic building block of life; (2)
                          carbon is an element that is indeed the building block of life; (3)
                          carbon in various molecular forms is "burned" by animals every day
                          to form CO2; (4) CO2 is "recycled" by plants that convert it into
                          sugars, cellulose, etc. that are then used by animals via #2, as
                          well as used for building houses, burning to heat them, etc.; marine
                          invertebrates fix a lot of CO2 by incorporation into carbonates,
                          which we humans also use in various ways; (5) I haven't read any
                          serious scientists proposing that we will exhaust the world's carbon
                          supply by burning it up; (6) none of this is to dispute that CO2
                          levels are at record highs, but simply to remind HREG readers that
                          the chemistry of the carbon cycle is complex and varied because it
                          IS the foundation of life--let's try to keep the basic facts
                          straight.

                          Robert Johnston


                          --- In hreg@yahoogroups.com, "Edward Kramer" <onekindr@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > A geophysicist will argue that we are in a natural warming caused
                          by changing sea levels, shift in plates and natural changes in the
                          jet stream. Global warming might be a small cause of the natural
                          warming trend, and the earth atmosphee can handle any Co2 gases that
                          we humans combust. Electricity is suppose to make our life better,
                          and if we do not find a sustainable source of electricity, life for
                          our children and theirs will revert to prehistoric times. We are
                          here for a very short time, we should only borrow from mother
                          nature, not take. If we deplete the carbon resources,
                          > what is the next generation going to do for the very basic
                          building life of all matter-black carbon. Rather than utilizing the
                          carbon for the solid production of physical goods, we are burning it
                          up in combustion for electricity. Once its gone, its gone. If we do
                          not wake up and make some serious changes in our lifestyles, how we
                          use the exiting resources, the future does not look so bright the
                          children.
                          >   ----- Original Message -----
                          >   From: Sarah Carriger
                          >   To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                          >   Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 6:53 PM
                          >   Subject: Re: [hreg] Roger Ebert reviews An Inconvenient Truth
                          >
                          >
                          >   I do not understand the comment of where the children are going
                          to play.  Same place they played before the turn of the 20th
                          century - before oil production became a big business - outside.  If
                          fossil fuel is causing global warming, then isn't this a good thing
                          that we run out of fossil fuels???  This planet and her inhabitants
                          survived just fine without oil and we can do it again.  It appears
                          that only when the supply is indeed limited will there be any
                          advances in alternative energy production, because at that point
                          there will be no choice.
                          >
                          >
                          >   Edward Kramer wrote:
                          >     Thanks for the invite, but I would rather conserve my fuel, as
                          the round trip from my house is costly and I will do my part to help
                          the future. Remeber, there is only 70-80 year supply of fossil fuel
                          in the world. Where are the chiildren going to play?
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >   SPONSORED LINKS Renewable energy  Renewable energy resources 
                          Renewable energy sources 
                          >         Renewable energy system  Renewable energy news  Houston
                          texas 
                          >
                          >
                          > -------------------------------------------------------------------
                          -----------
                          >   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                          >
                          >     a..  Visit your group "hreg" on the web.
                          >      
                          >     b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                          >      hreg-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                          >      
                          >     c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
                          of Service.
                          >
                          >
                          > -------------------------------------------------------------------
                          -----------
                          >





                        • Edward Kramer
                          Will, Why does the city of Austin have a rebate plan, allocated from the tax revenues it receives from electric bills to promote the installation of PV
                          Message 13 of 23 , Jun 5, 2006
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Will, 
                             
                               Why does the city of Austin have a rebate plan, allocated from the tax revenues it receives from electric bills to promote the installation of PV systems.?  why dioes Walgreen does install 122 of their stores in California with PV systems. Why does Whole Foods Markets, based out of Austin , with four stores in Houston install PV systems in their California stores and "green" it up on their web site.Could it be they are good stewards of the environment, or that they are taking advantage of Federal and local financial (rebate) incentives to add solar. What incentive plan does the city of Houston have? One nice thing about this forum is that we exchange ideas and might come to some important dialogue.  Just briefing thru your add on I see a lot of wind farms. They are nice, but where are they located? West Texas is nie for wind farms, but that is a long way from my home.
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 8:00 AM
                            Subject: Re: [hreg] Re: Roger Ebert reviews An Inconvenient Truth

                            Edward

                            I'll try to say this politely - please step off the soapbox. You have repeatedly made unsubstantiated statements on the HREG listserv, much to the chagrin of its members.   You should know what you're talking about before making declarations.  If you research what you wish to discuss before you enter the "soapbox zone", you will understand the issue.  You will also have factual, actual, information to substantiate your argument, and a solid platform to stand on. Please employ more facts and less conjecture and hyperbole in your entries.


                            One example - you said "The city of Houston has not not taken heed to this warning. they are by far the largest user of electricity, yet have not one action plan to make changes."   Where did you get this information from Edward? An update to your statement in the p.s. will bring you current on this "declaration."

                            I wish you all the best in expressing yourself as factually as you do actually.  You will find greater support for your ideas if they are defend-able.  Good luck.

                            Will

                            p.s.  here is some information on Houston's Alternative Energy initiatives that will update your last statement. You will learn there are "more than a few" Alt-Energy initiatives in Houston, contrary to your previous statements.   That is, if you have a real interest in Renewable Energy and Alt-Energy projects. Otherwise, you wouldn't be here, right?

                            ========================================

                            Alternative Energy Industry Guide to Houston
                            http://www.houston.org/industryGuide/alternativeEnergy.asp

                            As the Energy Capital of the World, Houston uses its spirit of innovation and collaboration to forge new ground across all aspects of the energy sector.

                            Extensive research and development is underway on developing energy sources that are not based on the burning of fossil fuels or the splitting of atoms. These include geothermal, wind, tide, solar, ground source heat pumps, biofuels hydroelectric and hydrogen fuel cells. The Greater Houston Partnership is working with area organizations to develop and demonstrate advanced hydrogen and fuel cell technologies that will reduce our nation's dependency on oil, improve air quality and maintain the region's economic competitiveness.

                            Houston has the tools and infrastructure in place to capitalize on this emerging sector of the energy industry.

                            Industry Facts:

                            • Texas is one of the top three states in the country in wind power potential
                            • In 2003, Texas installed more wind power than the entire United States had in any other year
                            • Many of Houston's school crossing lights are powered by solar energy

                            Green Mountain Energy Case Study

                            Green Mountain Energy is one of 11 electric retailers from whom Houstonians can purchase their electric power. Much of Green Mountain Energy's source for electricity is wind power.

                            The Green Mountain Energy Wind Farm in Borden and Scurry counties in West Texas produces enough electricity to power 30,000 homes.

                            Alternative Energy Downloadable Fact Sheet

                            Who's Who in Houston Alternative Enery:

                            Alternative Energy Resources:

                            • Business Development Division of the Greater Houston Partnership
                            • Houston Advanced Research Center
                            • Houston Energy Collaborative
                            • Houston Technology Center

                            Energy Events in Houston

                            Energy events bring together top talent, innovation and information.

                            • Energy events in Houston include: the Offshore Technology Conference (OTC) and the Energy Venture Forum. Held annually in Houston, OTC is the energy industry's premier conference and exhibition focused on deepwater offshore technology. The 51,320 participants from 110 nations in 2005 represented OTC's highest attendance since 1985. The exhibition included 2,087 exhibiting companies, totaling more than 410,000 net square feet, filling all available indoor and outdoor space.
                            • The Energy Venture Forum at Houston's Rice University introduces the most promising early-stage energy-related technology companies to leading venture capitalists. Participants hear about cutting-edge research and learn about emerging technology developments in traditional and alternative energy. Approximately 450 attendees participated in 2004.

                            Energy Resources in Houston

                            Where to go and what to do if you're thinking of starting, moving or expanding your business in Houston.

                            Some fuel for thought: From oil and gas to chemical development and production, the 10-county Houston region is the center of all things energy. The region offers a solid energy and chemical foundation and a workforce skilled in meeting the sector's needs. The region's large concentration of oil expertise and experience is a magnet attracting more oil expertise and experience to the area.

                            The Greater Houston Partnership has a unique place among business organizations. It combines opportunities for economic development, international business and public policy development. As the Houston region's primary business advocate, the Partnership helps keep businesses connected and works in their interests.

                            Energy Facts

                            • Forty-eight percent of the region's economic base employment is related to energy.
                            • Houston is headquarters for 17 energy-related Fortune 500 companies.
                            • Houston is home to the cutting-edge Offshore Technology Conference (OTC).
                            • Houston houses more than 3,600 energy-related establishments.
                            • Houston is home to 13 of the nation's 20 largest natural gas transmission companies.
                            • Houston has nearly 600 exploration and production firms.
                            • Houston has more than 170 pipeline operators.
                            • Hundreds of manufacturers of energy-sector products call Houston home.

                            In recent years, industry giants such as CITGO and Noble and smaller energy-related companies including Johnson Engineering and Hydralift, Inc. have relocated to Houston. Another 192 energy businesses have found Houston fertile ground for growth. In every case, expansions and relocations equal jobs for the Houston region.

                            Houston Entrepreneurial Enterprises Facts:

                            • The Houston region is home to more than 85,000 small businesses
                            • Houston's dynamic economy, well-developed information technology sector, talented workforce, business-friendly environment, low costs of living and ease of doing business make it a natural magnet for entrepreneurs.
                            • Houston ranked #2 on the Milken Institute's 2003 Best-Performing Cities Index
                            • Site Selection magazine ranked the Houston-Baytown-Sugar Land metro area in the top 10 of Metro Areas for Investment in its March, 2004 issue
                            • Houston has the lowest cost of living among the country's 24 largest metropolitan areas, according to the ACCRA Cost of Living Index for the first quarter of 2005
                            • With no state personal income or state property taxes, Houston has one of the lowest per-family tax burdens of any major U.S. city

                            Enterpreneurial Enterprises Resources:

                            • The Greater Houston Partnership Emerging Business Council
                            • The Greater Houston Partnership Business Development Division
                            • Texas Economic Development Web site
                            • Small Business Administration
                            • University of Houston Small Business Development Center

                            Enterpreneurial Enterprises Events:

                            The Greater Houston Partnership Super Summit, held yearly, helps emerging businesses learn to better partner with established corporations


                            ============================================

                            Oil Companies, Experts Discuss Alternative Energy Development
                            http://www.voanews.com/english/archive/2006-02/2006-02-07-voa1.cfm?CFID=14451546&CFTOKEN=59544590
                            By Greg Flakus
                            Houston 07 February 2006



                            Around 1,800 oil and gas company executives, government energy ministers and other players in the world energy sector have gathered in Houston for a special emphasis on developing new sources of energy.

                            The theme for this year's conference is "The New Prize: Energy's Next Era," and that encompasses everything from extraction of oil from Canada's extensive tar sands to development of solar power and ethanol.

                            CERA Senior Advisor James Rosenfield is one of the three men who founded the conference in 1983. He tells VOA that many of the big oil companies represented here are already investing a lot of money in alternative energy programs.

                            "A lot of the new economy of energy is going to be driven by the international oil companies such as Shell, BP and Exxon, who are really investing billions and billions of dollars in R and D (Research and Development) for new sources of supply, solar alternatives, fuel cells, distributed generation, really across the spectrum," Rosenfield said. "In the case of BP, their focus has been on electric power, actually, using a lot of their technology to look at alternative and renewable sources of electric power generation."

                            Rosenfield says using CERAWeek to focus on such issues as alternative energy, non-conventional oil sources and conservation could have important consequences worldwide because participants represent every aspect of the international energy business.

                            "We will have exploration and production companies, national oil companies, integrated oil companies, but also utilities, energy end users, consumers such as Dow and Boeing and some of the automotive companies as well and then the financial institutions that provide the capital, in many cases, for the industry," he said.

                            Included in the mix of participants are representatives from several member nations of the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries, known as OPEC. One of the chief speakers at the opening ceremony Tuesday will be Saudi Arabia's Oil Minister, Ali Naimi.

                            OPEC leaders have at times expressed concern over US and European efforts to develop alternative energy because it could divert investment from development of conventional energy sources. In an appearance here in Houston last year, the head of the Saudi oil company, Aramco, said his nation's vast oil reserves represent a reliable supply of energy that alternative energy programs are not likely to equal any time soon.

                            But Rosenfield says he does not believe the Saudis are against development of other energy sources.

                            "I think that the Saudis actually take a view that we are in this together, that we need to build the world's oil and energy supply, to build a stable and diversified supply base," he added. "We will hear from Mr. Naimi and what he has to say, but, while they are committed to an oil and hydrocarbon economy, they also recognize that over multi-decades we are going to be looking towards a lot of different sources of supply as well."

                            In his state of the union address last week, President Bush called for programs that would lessen U.S. dependence on foreign sources of oil and gave special emphasis to the development of biofuels like ethanol. Brazil, which has a successful ethanol program based on fuel from sugar cane, is also represented at CERAWeek and Rosenfield says he expects a lot of discussion among participants about such programs.

                            =====================================



                            On 6/5/06, Edward Kramer <onekindr@...> wrote:
                            Maybe what I meant to say is carbon is in your every day life -from the tires on the car (are they rubber): or the PC housing, to the packageing of your groceries etc. That is our foundation of consumer products. Does a barrel of oil go for 100 % usage of  gasoline and petrol products? Next time you eat a chocolate bar, think of what is in that chocolate bar. The real treasure thats in  oil is the refined black carbon, the building block of a plastics. Plastics equate to consumption which equals growth. The delimea we face is how to conserve. If you watch PBS, even Chevron advertises that half the worlds energy supply is used up, the problem is how to effectively use the rest. For sure, it is going to be more expensive, and hence under a capitilistic system, the growth of other competing dollar entities are going to shrink. That is not a good thing at all. The city of Houston has not not taken heed to this warning. they are by far the largest user of electricity, yet have not one action plan to make changes. I heard they found some federal money and invested in a wind farm at King Ranch. Maybe they can open an annex buiding next door.
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 11:37 PM
                            Subject: [hreg] Re: Roger Ebert reviews An Inconvenient Truth

                            Maybe I'm misunderstanding your comments, but please note that: 
                            (1) "black carbon" is not the basic building block of life; (2)
                            carbon is an element that is indeed the building block of life; (3)
                            carbon in various molecular forms is "burned" by animals every day
                            to form CO2; (4) CO2 is "recycled" by plants that convert it into
                            sugars, cellulose, etc. that are then used by animals via #2, as
                            well as used for building houses, burning to heat them, etc.; marine
                            invertebrates fix a lot of CO2 by incorporation into carbonates,
                            which we humans also use in various ways; (5) I haven't read any
                            serious scientists proposing that we will exhaust the world's carbon
                            supply by burning it up; (6) none of this is to dispute that CO2
                            levels are at record highs, but simply to remind HREG readers that
                            the chemistry of the carbon cycle is complex and varied because it
                            IS the foundation of life--let's try to keep the basic facts
                            straight.

                            Robert Johnston


                            --- In hreg@yahoogroups.com, "Edward Kramer" <onekindr@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > A geophysicist will argue that we are in a natural warming caused
                            by changing sea levels, shift in plates and natural changes in the
                            jet stream. Global warming might be a small cause of the natural
                            warming trend, and the earth atmosphee can handle any Co2 gases that
                            we humans combust. Electricity is suppose to make our life better,
                            and if we do not find a sustainable source of electricity, life for
                            our children and theirs will revert to prehistoric times. We are
                            here for a very short time, we should only borrow from mother
                            nature, not take. If we deplete the carbon resources,
                            > what is the next generation going to do for the very basic
                            building life of all matter-black carbon. Rather than utilizing the
                            carbon for the solid production of physical goods, we are burning it
                            up in combustion for electricity. Once its gone, its gone. If we do
                            not wake up and make some serious changes in our lifestyles, how we
                            use the exiting resources, the future does not look so bright the
                            children.
                            >   ----- Original Message -----
                            >   From: Sarah Carriger
                            >   To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                            >   Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 6:53 PM
                            >   Subject: Re: [hreg] Roger Ebert reviews An Inconvenient Truth
                            >
                            >
                            >   I do not understand the comment of where the children are going
                            to play.  Same place they played before the turn of the 20th
                            century - before oil production became a big business - outside.  If
                            fossil fuel is causing global warming, then isn't this a good thing
                            that we run out of fossil fuels???  This planet and her inhabitants
                            survived just fine without oil and we can do it again.  It appears
                            that only when the supply is indeed limited will there be any
                            advances in alternative energy production, because at that point
                            there will be no choice.
                            >
                            >
                            >   Edward Kramer wrote:
                            >     Thanks for the invite, but I would rather conserve my fuel, as
                            the round trip from my house is costly and I will do my part to help
                            the future. Remeber, there is only 70-80 year supply of fossil fuel
                            in the world. Where are the chiildren going to play?
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >   SPONSORED LINKS Renewable energy  Renewable energy resources 
                            Renewable energy sources 
                            >         Renewable energy system  Renewable energy news  Houston
                            texas 
                            >
                            >
                            > -------------------------------------------------------------------
                            -----------
                            >   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                            >
                            >     a..  Visit your group "hreg" on the web.
                            >      
                            >     b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                            >      hreg-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                            >      
                            >     c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
                            of Service.
                            >
                            >
                            > -------------------------------------------------------------------
                            -----------
                            >







                            SPONSORED LINKS
                            Renewable energyRenewable energy resourcesRenewable energy sources
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                          • Steven Shepard
                            I think a better question for us to ask is why do these corporations purchase and install renewable energy in other locations but not in Texas? The short
                            Message 14 of 23 , Jun 5, 2006
                            • 0 Attachment
                              I think a better question for us to ask is why do these corporations purchase and install renewable energy in other locations but not in Texas? 
                               
                              The short answer is because utility prices are still relatively low here in Texas and not as high as they are in California and other states.  This is especially true where the taxpayer subsidizes the cost of electricity for municipally owned utilities and rural co-ops.  This subsidy artificially keeps the price of electricity low for large commercial consumers. 
                               
                              The irony is that if a poor electric consumer and taxpayer cannot pay their bill these subsidized utilities will not hesitate to disconnect the user's power.  However, if and when large commercial consumers are late with their payments the utilities will bend over backwards to accomodate them. 



                               
                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: Edward Kramer
                              Sent: Jun 5, 2006 11:25 AM
                              To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: [hreg] Re: Roger Ebert reviews An Inconvenient Truth

                              Will, 
                               
                                 Why does the city of Austin have a rebate plan, allocated from the tax revenues it receives from electric bills to promote the installation of PV systems.?  why dioes Walgreen does install 122 of their stores in California with PV systems. Why does Whole Foods Markets, based out of Austin , with four stores in Houston install PV systems in their California stores and "green" it up on their web site.Could it be they are good stewards of the environment, or that they are taking advantage of Federal and local financial (rebate) incentives to add solar. What incentive plan does the city of Houston have? One nice thing about this forum is that we exchange ideas and might come to some important dialogue.  Just briefing thru your add on I see a lot of wind farms. They are nice, but where are they located? West Texas is nie for wind farms, but that is a long way from my home.
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 8:00 AM
                              Subject: Re: [hreg] Re: Roger Ebert reviews An Inconvenient Truth

                              Edward

                              I'll try to say this politely - please step off the soapbox. You have repeatedly made unsubstantiated statements on the HREG listserv, much to the chagrin of its members.   You should know what you're talking about before making declarations.  If you research what you wish to discuss before you enter the "soapbox zone", you will understand the issue.  You will also have factual, actual, information to substantiate your argument, and a solid platform to stand on. Please employ more facts and less conjecture and hyperbole in your entries.


                              One example - you said "The city of Houston has not not taken heed to this warning. they are by far the largest user of electricity, yet have not one action plan to make changes."   Where did you get this information from Edward? An update to your statement in the p.s. will bring you current on this "declaration."

                              I wish you all the best in expressing yourself as factually as you do actually.  You will find greater support for your ideas if they are defend-able.  Good luck.

                              Will

                              p.s.  here is some information on Houston's Alternative Energy initiatives that will update your last statement. You will learn there are "more than a few" Alt-Energy initiatives in Houston, contrary to your previous statements.   That is, if you have a real interest in Renewable Energy and Alt-Energy projects. Otherwise, you wouldn't be here, right?

                              ========================================

                              Alternative Energy Industry Guide to Houston
                              http://www.houston.org/industryGuide/alternativeEnergy.asp

                              As the Energy Capital of the World, Houston uses its spirit of innovation and collaboration to forge new ground across all aspects of the energy sector.

                              Extensive research and development is underway on developing energy sources that are not based on the burning of fossil fuels or the splitting of atoms. These include geothermal, wind, tide, solar, ground source heat pumps, biofuels hydroelectric and hydrogen fuel cells. The Greater Houston Partnership is working with area organizations to develop and demonstrate advanced hydrogen and fuel cell technologies that will reduce our nation's dependency on oil, improve air quality and maintain the region's economic competitiveness.

                              Houston has the tools and infrastructure in place to capitalize on this emerging sector of the energy industry.

                              Industry Facts:

                              • Texas is one of the top three states in the country in wind power potential
                              • In 2003, Texas installed more wind power than the entire United States had in any other year
                              • Many of Houston's school crossing lights are powered by solar energy

                              Green Mountain Energy Case Study

                              Green Mountain Energy is one of 11 electric retailers from whom Houstonians can purchase their electric power. Much of Green Mountain Energy's source for electricity is wind power.

                              The Green Mountain Energy Wind Farm in Borden and Scurry counties in West Texas produces enough electricity to power 30,000 homes.

                              Alternative Energy Downloadable Fact Sheet

                              Who's Who in Houston Alternative Enery:

                              Alternative Energy Resources:

                              • Business Development Division of the Greater Houston Partnership
                              • Houston Advanced Research Center
                              • Houston Energy Collaborative
                              • Houston Technology Center

                              Energy Events in Houston

                              Energy events bring together top talent, innovation and information.

                              • Energy events in Houston include: the Offshore Technology Conference (OTC) and the Energy Venture Forum. Held annually in Houston, OTC is the energy industry's premier conference and exhibition focused on deepwater offshore technology. The 51,320 participants from 110 nations in 2005 represented OTC's highest attendance since 1985. The exhibition included 2,087 exhibiting companies, totaling more than 410,000 net square feet, filling all available indoor and outdoor space.
                              • The Energy Venture Forum at Houston's Rice University introduces the most promising early-stage energy-related technology companies to leading venture capitalists. Participants hear about cutting-edge research and learn about emerging technology developments in traditional and alternative energy. Approximately 450 attendees participated in 2004.

                              Energy Resources in Houston

                              Where to go and what to do if you're thinking of starting, moving or expanding your business in Houston.

                              Some fuel for thought: From oil and gas to chemical development and production, the 10-county Houston region is the center of all things energy. The region offers a solid energy and chemical foundation and a workforce skilled in meeting the sector's needs. The region's large concentration of oil expertise and experience is a magnet attracting more oil expertise and experience to the area.

                              The Greater Houston Partnership has a unique place among business organizations. It combines opportunities for economic development, international business and public policy development. As the Houston region's primary business advocate, the Partnership helps keep businesses connected and works in their interests.

                              Energy Facts

                              • Forty-eight percent of the region's economic base employment is related to energy.
                              • Houston is headquarters for 17 energy-related Fortune 500 companies.
                              • Houston is home to the cutting-edge Offshore Technology Conference (OTC).
                              • Houston houses more than 3,600 energy-related establishments.
                              • Houston is home to 13 of the nation's 20 largest natural gas transmission companies.
                              • Houston has nearly 600 exploration and production firms.
                              • Houston has more than 170 pipeline operators.
                              • Hundreds of manufacturers of energy-sector products call Houston home.

                              In recent years, industry giants such as CITGO and Noble and smaller energy-related companies including Johnson Engineering and Hydralift, Inc. have relocated to Houston. Another 192 energy businesses have found Houston fertile ground for growth. In every case, expansions and relocations equal jobs for the Houston region.

                              Houston Entrepreneurial Enterprises Facts:

                              • The Houston region is home to more than 85,000 small businesses
                              • Houston's dynamic economy, well-developed information technology sector, talented workforce, business-friendly environment, low costs of living and ease of doing business make it a natural magnet for entrepreneurs.
                              • Houston ranked #2 on the Milken Institute's 2003 Best-Performing Cities Index
                              • Site Selection magazine ranked the Houston-Baytown-Sugar Land metro area in the top 10 of Metro Areas for Investment in its March, 2004 issue
                              • Houston has the lowest cost of living among the country's 24 largest metropolitan areas, according to the ACCRA Cost of Living Index for the first quarter of 2005
                              • With no state personal income or state property taxes, Houston has one of the lowest per-family tax burdens of any major U.S. city

                              Enterpreneurial Enterprises Resources:

                              • The Greater Houston Partnership Emerging Business Council
                              • The Greater Houston Partnership Business Development Division
                              • Texas Economic Development Web site
                              • Small Business Administration
                              • University of Houston Small Business Development Center

                              Enterpreneurial Enterprises Events:

                              The Greater Houston Partnership Super Summit, held yearly, helps emerging businesses learn to better partner with established corporations


                              ============================================

                              Oil Companies, Experts Discuss Alternative Energy Development
                              http://www.voanews.com/english/archive/2006-02/2006-02-07-voa1.cfm?CFID=14451546&CFTOKEN=59544590
                              By Greg Flakus
                              Houston 07 February 2006



                              Around 1,800 oil and gas company executives, government energy ministers and other players in the world energy sector have gathered in Houston for a special emphasis on developing new sources of energy.

                              The theme for this year's conference is "The New Prize: Energy's Next Era," and that encompasses everything from extraction of oil from Canada's extensive tar sands to development of solar power and ethanol.

                              CERA Senior Advisor James Rosenfield is one of the three men who founded the conference in 1983. He tells VOA that many of the big oil companies represented here are already investing a lot of money in alternative energy programs.

                              "A lot of the new economy of energy is going to be driven by the international oil companies such as Shell, BP and Exxon, who are really investing billions and billions of dollars in R and D (Research and Development) for new sources of supply, solar alternatives, fuel cells, distributed generation, really across the spectrum," Rosenfield said. "In the case of BP, their focus has been on electric power, actually, using a lot of their technology to look at alternative and renewable sources of electric power generation."

                              Rosenfield says using CERAWeek to focus on such issues as alternative energy, non-conventional oil sources and conservation could have important consequences worldwide because participants represent every aspect of the international energy business.

                              "We will have exploration and production companies, national oil companies, integrated oil companies, but also utilities, energy end users, consumers such as Dow and Boeing and some of the automotive companies as well and then the financial institutions that provide the capital, in many cases, for the industry," he said.

                              Included in the mix of participants are representatives from several member nations of the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries, known as OPEC. One of the chief speakers at the opening ceremony Tuesday will be Saudi Arabia's Oil Minister, Ali Naimi.

                              OPEC leaders have at times expressed concern over US and European efforts to develop alternative energy because it could divert investment from development of conventional energy sources. In an appearance here in Houston last year, the head of the Saudi oil company, Aramco, said his nation's vast oil reserves represent a reliable supply of energy that alternative energy programs are not likely to equal any time soon.

                              But Rosenfield says he does not believe the Saudis are against development of other energy sources.

                              "I think that the Saudis actually take a view that we are in this together, that we need to build the world's oil and energy supply, to build a stable and diversified supply base," he added. "We will hear from Mr. Naimi and what he has to say, but, while they are committed to an oil and hydrocarbon economy, they also recognize that over multi-decades we are going to be looking towards a lot of different sources of supply as well."

                              In his state of the union address last week, President Bush called for programs that would lessen U.S. dependence on foreign sources of oil and gave special emphasis to the development of biofuels like ethanol. Brazil, which has a successful ethanol program based on fuel from sugar cane, is also represented at CERAWeek and Rosenfield says he expects a lot of discussion among participants about such programs.

                              =====================================



                              On 6/5/06, Edward Kramer <onekindr@...> wrote:
                              Maybe what I meant to say is carbon is in your every day life -from the tires on the car (are they rubber): or the PC housing, to the packageing of your groceries etc. That is our foundation of consumer products. Does a barrel of oil go for 100 % usage of  gasoline and petrol products? Next time you eat a chocolate bar, think of what is in that chocolate bar. The real treasure thats in  oil is the refined black carbon, the building block of a plastics. Plastics equate to consumption which equals growth. The delimea we face is how to conserve. If you watch PBS, even Chevron advertises that half the worlds energy supply is used up, the problem is how to effectively use the rest. For sure, it is going to be more expensive, and hence under a capitilistic system, the growth of other competing dollar entities are going to shrink. That is not a good thing at all. The city of Houston has not not taken heed to this warning. they are by far the largest user of electricity, yet have not one action plan to make changes. I heard they found some federal money and invested in a wind farm at King Ranch. Maybe they can open an annex buiding next door.
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 11:37 PM
                              Subject: [hreg] Re: Roger Ebert reviews An Inconvenient Truth

                              Maybe I'm misunderstanding your comments, but please note that: 
                              (1) "black carbon" is not the basic building block of life; (2)
                              carbon is an element that is indeed the building block of life; (3)
                              carbon in various molecular forms is "burned" by animals every day
                              to form CO2; (4) CO2 is "recycled" by plants that convert it into
                              sugars, cellulose, etc. that are then used by animals via #2, as
                              well as used for building houses, burning to heat them, etc.; marine
                              invertebrates fix a lot of CO2 by incorporation into carbonates,
                              which we humans also use in various ways; (5) I haven't read any
                              serious scientists proposing that we will exhaust the world's carbon
                              supply by burning it up; (6) none of this is to dispute that CO2
                              levels are at record highs, but simply to remind HREG readers that
                              the chemistry of the carbon cycle is complex and varied because it
                              IS the foundation of life--let's try to keep the basic facts
                              straight.

                              Robert Johnston


                              --- In hreg@yahoogroups.com, "Edward Kramer" <onekindr@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > A geophysicist will argue that we are in a natural warming caused
                              by changing sea levels, shift in plates and natural changes in the
                              jet stream. Global warming might be a small cause of the natural
                              warming trend, and the earth atmosphee can handle any Co2 gases that
                              we humans combust. Electricity is suppose to make our life better,
                              and if we do not find a sustainable source of electricity, life for
                              our children and theirs will revert to prehistoric times. We are
                              here for a very short time, we should only borrow from mother
                              nature, not take. If we deplete the carbon resources,
                              > what is the next generation going to do for the very basic
                              building life of all matter-black carbon. Rather than utilizing the
                              carbon for the solid production of physical goods, we are burning it
                              up in combustion for electricity. Once its gone, its gone. If we do
                              not wake up and make some serious changes in our lifestyles, how we
                              use the exiting resources, the future does not look so bright the
                              children.
                              >   ----- Original Message -----
                              >   From: Sarah Carriger
                              >   To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                              >   Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 6:53 PM
                              >   Subject: Re: [hreg] Roger Ebert reviews An Inconvenient Truth
                              >
                              >
                              >   I do not understand the comment of where the children are going
                              to play.  Same place they played before the turn of the 20th
                              century - before oil production became a big business - outside.  If
                              fossil fuel is causing global warming, then isn't this a good thing
                              that we run out of fossil fuels???  This planet and her inhabitants
                              survived just fine without oil and we can do it again.  It appears
                              that only when the supply is indeed limited will there be any
                              advances in alternative energy production, because at that point
                              there will be no choice.
                              >
                              >
                              >   Edward Kramer wrote:
                              >     Thanks for the invite, but I would rather conserve my fuel, as
                              the round trip from my house is costly and I will do my part to help
                              the future. Remeber, there is only 70-80 year supply of fossil fuel
                              in the world. Where are the chiildren going to play?
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >   SPONSORED LINKS Renewable energy  Renewable energy resources 
                              Renewable energy sources 
                              >         Renewable energy system  Renewable energy news  Houston
                              texas 
                              >
                              >
                              > -------------------------------------------------------------------
                              -----------
                              >   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                              >
                              >     a..  Visit your group "hreg" on the web.
                              >      
                              >     b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                              >      hreg-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                              >      
                              >     c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
                              of Service.
                              >
                              >
                              > -------------------------------------------------------------------
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                              >







                              SPONSORED LINKS
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                              Renewable energy systemRenewable energy newsHouston texas


                              YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS






                              SPONSORED LINKS
                              Renewable energyRenewable energy resourcesRenewable energy sources
                              Renewable energy systemRenewable energy newsHouston texas


                              YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS




                              
                              SBT Designs
                              25581 IH-10 West
                              San Antonio, Texas 78257
                              (210) 698-7109
                              www.sbtdesigns.com
                            • Edward Kramer
                              I would disagree with you, an installed 50 k system after rebates and incentives produces electricity for roughly 6-7 cents a killowatt for a minimum of 25
                              Message 15 of 23 , Jun 5, 2006
                              • 0 Attachment
                                I would disagree with you, an installed 50 k system after rebates and incentives produces electricity for roughly 6-7 cents a killowatt for a minimum of 25 years-really forever. I would say that is a good business investment. When you have a "free" power source such as the sun, no moving parts to wear out (no maintenace costs), I would call that a win -win-win and oh yes, not a single ounce of greenhouse gas emmision. Subsidies, why does oil and gas, coal and rail pay no taxes!
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 11:47 AM
                                Subject: Re: [hreg] Re: Roger Ebert reviews An Inconvenient Truth

                                I think a better question for us to ask is why do these corporations purchase and install renewable energy in other locations but not in Texas? 
                                 
                                The short answer is because utility prices are still relatively low here in Texas and not as high as they are in California and other states.  This is especially true where the taxpayer subsidizes the cost of electricity for municipally owned utilities and rural co-ops.  This subsidy artificially keeps the price of electricity low for large commercial consumers. 
                                 
                                The irony is that if a poor electric consumer and taxpayer cannot pay their bill these subsidized utilities will not hesitate to disconnect the user's power.  However, if and when large commercial consumers are late with their payments the utilities will bend over backwards to accomodate them. 



                                 
                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: Edward Kramer
                                Sent: Jun 5, 2006 11:25 AM
                                To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: Re: [hreg] Re: Roger Ebert reviews An Inconvenient Truth

                                Will, 
                                 
                                   Why does the city of Austin have a rebate plan, allocated from the tax revenues it receives from electric bills to promote the installation of PV systems.?  why dioes Walgreen does install 122 of their stores in California with PV systems. Why does Whole Foods Markets, based out of Austin , with four stores in Houston install PV systems in their California stores and "green" it up on their web site.Could it be they are good stewards of the environment, or that they are taking advantage of Federal and local financial (rebate) incentives to add solar. What incentive plan does the city of Houston have? One nice thing about this forum is that we exchange ideas and might come to some important dialogue.  Just briefing thru your add on I see a lot of wind farms. They are nice, but where are they located? West Texas is nie for wind farms, but that is a long way from my home.
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 8:00 AM
                                Subject: Re: [hreg] Re: Roger Ebert reviews An Inconvenient Truth

                                Edward

                                I'll try to say this politely - please step off the soapbox. You have repeatedly made unsubstantiated statements on the HREG listserv, much to the chagrin of its members.   You should know what you're talking about before making declarations.  If you research what you wish to discuss before you enter the "soapbox zone", you will understand the issue.  You will also have factual, actual, information to substantiate your argument, and a solid platform to stand on. Please employ more facts and less conjecture and hyperbole in your entries.


                                One example - you said "The city of Houston has not not taken heed to this warning. they are by far the largest user of electricity, yet have not one action plan to make changes."   Where did you get this information from Edward? An update to your statement in the p.s. will bring you current on this "declaration."

                                I wish you all the best in expressing yourself as factually as you do actually.  You will find greater support for your ideas if they are defend-able.  Good luck.

                                Will

                                p.s.  here is some information on Houston's Alternative Energy initiatives that will update your last statement. You will learn there are "more than a few" Alt-Energy initiatives in Houston, contrary to your previous statements.   That is, if you have a real interest in Renewable Energy and Alt-Energy projects. Otherwise, you wouldn't be here, right?

                                ========================================

                                Alternative Energy Industry Guide to Houston
                                http://www.houston.org/industryGuide/alternativeEnergy.asp

                                As the Energy Capital of the World, Houston uses its spirit of innovation and collaboration to forge new ground across all aspects of the energy sector.

                                Extensive research and development is underway on developing energy sources that are not based on the burning of fossil fuels or the splitting of atoms. These include geothermal, wind, tide, solar, ground source heat pumps, biofuels hydroelectric and hydrogen fuel cells. The Greater Houston Partnership is working with area organizations to develop and demonstrate advanced hydrogen and fuel cell technologies that will reduce our nation's dependency on oil, improve air quality and maintain the region's economic competitiveness.

                                Houston has the tools and infrastructure in place to capitalize on this emerging sector of the energy industry.

                                Industry Facts:

                                • Texas is one of the top three states in the country in wind power potential
                                • In 2003, Texas installed more wind power than the entire United States had in any other year
                                • Many of Houston's school crossing lights are powered by solar energy

                                Green Mountain Energy Case Study

                                Green Mountain Energy is one of 11 electric retailers from whom Houstonians can purchase their electric power. Much of Green Mountain Energy's source for electricity is wind power.

                                The Green Mountain Energy Wind Farm in Borden and Scurry counties in West Texas produces enough electricity to power 30,000 homes.

                                Alternative Energy Downloadable Fact Sheet

                                Who's Who in Houston Alternative Enery:

                                Alternative Energy Resources:

                                • Business Development Division of the Greater Houston Partnership
                                • Houston Advanced Research Center
                                • Houston Energy Collaborative
                                • Houston Technology Center

                                Energy Events in Houston

                                Energy events bring together top talent, innovation and information.

                                • Energy events in Houston include: the Offshore Technology Conference (OTC) and the Energy Venture Forum. Held annually in Houston, OTC is the energy industry's premier conference and exhibition focused on deepwater offshore technology. The 51,320 participants from 110 nations in 2005 represented OTC's highest attendance since 1985. The exhibition included 2,087 exhibiting companies, totaling more than 410,000 net square feet, filling all available indoor and outdoor space.
                                • The Energy Venture Forum at Houston's Rice University introduces the most promising early-stage energy-related technology companies to leading venture capitalists. Participants hear about cutting-edge research and learn about emerging technology developments in traditional and alternative energy. Approximately 450 attendees participated in 2004.

                                Energy Resources in Houston

                                Where to go and what to do if you're thinking of starting, moving or expanding your business in Houston.

                                Some fuel for thought: From oil and gas to chemical development and production, the 10-county Houston region is the center of all things energy. The region offers a solid energy and chemical foundation and a workforce skilled in meeting the sector's needs. The region's large concentration of oil expertise and experience is a magnet attracting more oil expertise and experience to the area.

                                The Greater Houston Partnership has a unique place among business organizations. It combines opportunities for economic development, international business and public policy development. As the Houston region's primary business advocate, the Partnership helps keep businesses connected and works in their interests.

                                Energy Facts

                                • Forty-eight percent of the region's economic base employment is related to energy.
                                • Houston is headquarters for 17 energy-related Fortune 500 companies.
                                • Houston is home to the cutting-edge Offshore Technology Conference (OTC).
                                • Houston houses more than 3,600 energy-related establishments.
                                • Houston is home to 13 of the nation's 20 largest natural gas transmission companies.
                                • Houston has nearly 600 exploration and production firms.
                                • Houston has more than 170 pipeline operators.
                                • Hundreds of manufacturers of energy-sector products call Houston home.

                                In recent years, industry giants such as CITGO and Noble and smaller energy-related companies including Johnson Engineering and Hydralift, Inc. have relocated to Houston. Another 192 energy businesses have found Houston fertile ground for growth. In every case, expansions and relocations equal jobs for the Houston region.

                                Houston Entrepreneurial Enterprises Facts:

                                • The Houston region is home to more than 85,000 small businesses
                                • Houston's dynamic economy, well-developed information technology sector, talented workforce, business-friendly environment, low costs of living and ease of doing business make it a natural magnet for entrepreneurs.
                                • Houston ranked #2 on the Milken Institute's 2003 Best-Performing Cities Index
                                • Site Selection magazine ranked the Houston-Baytown-Sugar Land metro area in the top 10 of Metro Areas for Investment in its March, 2004 issue
                                • Houston has the lowest cost of living among the country's 24 largest metropolitan areas, according to the ACCRA Cost of Living Index for the first quarter of 2005
                                • With no state personal income or state property taxes, Houston has one of the lowest per-family tax burdens of any major U.S. city

                                Enterpreneurial Enterprises Resources:

                                • The Greater Houston Partnership Emerging Business Council
                                • The Greater Houston Partnership Business Development Division
                                • Texas Economic Development Web site
                                • Small Business Administration
                                • University of Houston Small Business Development Center

                                Enterpreneurial Enterprises Events:

                                The Greater Houston Partnership Super Summit, held yearly, helps emerging businesses learn to better partner with established corporations


                                ============================================

                                Oil Companies, Experts Discuss Alternative Energy Development
                                http://www.voanews.com/english/archive/2006-02/2006-02-07-voa1.cfm?CFID=14451546&CFTOKEN=59544590
                                By Greg Flakus
                                Houston 07 February 2006



                                Around 1,800 oil and gas company executives, government energy ministers and other players in the world energy sector have gathered in Houston for a special emphasis on developing new sources of energy.

                                The theme for this year's conference is "The New Prize: Energy's Next Era," and that encompasses everything from extraction of oil from Canada's extensive tar sands to development of solar power and ethanol.

                                CERA Senior Advisor James Rosenfield is one of the three men who founded the conference in 1983. He tells VOA that many of the big oil companies represented here are already investing a lot of money in alternative energy programs.

                                "A lot of the new economy of energy is going to be driven by the international oil companies such as Shell, BP and Exxon, who are really investing billions and billions of dollars in R and D (Research and Development) for new sources of supply, solar alternatives, fuel cells, distributed generation, really across the spectrum," Rosenfield said. "In the case of BP, their focus has been on electric power, actually, using a lot of their technology to look at alternative and renewable sources of electric power generation."

                                Rosenfield says using CERAWeek to focus on such issues as alternative energy, non-conventional oil sources and conservation could have important consequences worldwide because participants represent every aspect of the international energy business.

                                "We will have exploration and production companies, national oil companies, integrated oil companies, but also utilities, energy end users, consumers such as Dow and Boeing and some of the automotive companies as well and then the financial institutions that provide the capital, in many cases, for the industry," he said.

                                Included in the mix of participants are representatives from several member nations of the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries, known as OPEC. One of the chief speakers at the opening ceremony Tuesday will be Saudi Arabia's Oil Minister, Ali Naimi.

                                OPEC leaders have at times expressed concern over US and European efforts to develop alternative energy because it could divert investment from development of conventional energy sources. In an appearance here in Houston last year, the head of the Saudi oil company, Aramco, said his nation's vast oil reserves represent a reliable supply of energy that alternative energy programs are not likely to equal any time soon.

                                But Rosenfield says he does not believe the Saudis are against development of other energy sources.

                                "I think that the Saudis actually take a view that we are in this together, that we need to build the world's oil and energy supply, to build a stable and diversified supply base," he added. "We will hear from Mr. Naimi and what he has to say, but, while they are committed to an oil and hydrocarbon economy, they also recognize that over multi-decades we are going to be looking towards a lot of different sources of supply as well."

                                In his state of the union address last week, President Bush called for programs that would lessen U.S. dependence on foreign sources of oil and gave special emphasis to the development of biofuels like ethanol. Brazil, which has a successful ethanol program based on fuel from sugar cane, is also represented at CERAWeek and Rosenfield says he expects a lot of discussion among participants about such programs.

                                =====================================



                                On 6/5/06, Edward Kramer <onekindr@...> wrote:
                                Maybe what I meant to say is carbon is in your every day life -from the tires on the car (are they rubber): or the PC housing, to the packageing of your groceries etc. That is our foundation of consumer products. Does a barrel of oil go for 100 % usage of  gasoline and petrol products? Next time you eat a chocolate bar, think of what is in that chocolate bar. The real treasure thats in  oil is the refined black carbon, the building block of a plastics. Plastics equate to consumption which equals growth. The delimea we face is how to conserve. If you watch PBS, even Chevron advertises that half the worlds energy supply is used up, the problem is how to effectively use the rest. For sure, it is going to be more expensive, and hence under a capitilistic system, the growth of other competing dollar entities are going to shrink. That is not a good thing at all. The city of Houston has not not taken heed to this warning. they are by far the largest user of electricity, yet have not one action plan to make changes. I heard they found some federal money and invested in a wind farm at King Ranch. Maybe they can open an annex buiding next door.
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 11:37 PM
                                Subject: [hreg] Re: Roger Ebert reviews An Inconvenient Truth

                                Maybe I'm misunderstanding your comments, but please note that: 
                                (1) "black carbon" is not the basic building block of life; (2)
                                carbon is an element that is indeed the building block of life; (3)
                                carbon in various molecular forms is "burned" by animals every day
                                to form CO2; (4) CO2 is "recycled" by plants that convert it into
                                sugars, cellulose, etc. that are then used by animals via #2, as
                                well as used for building houses, burning to heat them, etc.; marine
                                invertebrates fix a lot of CO2 by incorporation into carbonates,
                                which we humans also use in various ways; (5) I haven't read any
                                serious scientists proposing that we will exhaust the world's carbon
                                supply by burning it up; (6) none of this is to dispute that CO2
                                levels are at record highs, but simply to remind HREG readers that
                                the chemistry of the carbon cycle is complex and varied because it
                                IS the foundation of life--let's try to keep the basic facts
                                straight.

                                Robert Johnston


                                --- In hreg@yahoogroups.com, "Edward Kramer" <onekindr@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > A geophysicist will argue that we are in a natural warming caused
                                by changing sea levels, shift in plates and natural changes in the
                                jet stream. Global warming might be a small cause of the natural
                                warming trend, and the earth atmosphee can handle any Co2 gases that
                                we humans combust. Electricity is suppose to make our life better,
                                and if we do not find a sustainable source of electricity, life for
                                our children and theirs will revert to prehistoric times. We are
                                here for a very short time, we should only borrow from mother
                                nature, not take. If we deplete the carbon resources,
                                > what is the next generation going to do for the very basic
                                building life of all matter-black carbon. Rather than utilizing the
                                carbon for the solid production of physical goods, we are burning it
                                up in combustion for electricity. Once its gone, its gone. If we do
                                not wake up and make some serious changes in our lifestyles, how we
                                use the exiting resources, the future does not look so bright the
                                children.
                                >   ----- Original Message -----
                                >   From: Sarah Carriger
                                >   To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                                >   Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 6:53 PM
                                >   Subject: Re: [hreg] Roger Ebert reviews An Inconvenient Truth
                                >
                                >
                                >   I do not understand the comment of where the children are going
                                to play.  Same place they played before the turn of the 20th
                                century - before oil production became a big business - outside.  If
                                fossil fuel is causing global warming, then isn't this a good thing
                                that we run out of fossil fuels???  This planet and her inhabitants
                                survived just fine without oil and we can do it again.  It appears
                                that only when the supply is indeed limited will there be any
                                advances in alternative energy production, because at that point
                                there will be no choice.
                                >
                                >
                                >   Edward Kramer wrote:
                                >     Thanks for the invite, but I would rather conserve my fuel, as
                                the round trip from my house is costly and I will do my part to help
                                the future. Remeber, there is only 70-80 year supply of fossil fuel
                                in the world. Where are the chiildren going to play?
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >   SPONSORED LINKS Renewable energy  Renewable energy resources 
                                Renewable energy sources 
                                >         Renewable energy system  Renewable energy news  Houston
                                texas 
                                >
                                >
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                              • will thurmond
                                Paul, Thanks for your reply on this one. Here is some more information on what the city is doing. It isn t nothing , and it s hardly what it could be. But,
                                Message 16 of 23 , Jun 5, 2006
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Paul,

                                  Thanks for your reply on this one.  Here is some more information on what the city is doing.  It isn't "nothing", and it's hardly what it could be.  But, given the fact that a large portion of the city's income is from petroleum producing companies, and given that the key lobbyists in local/state government favor petroleum companies, "anything" is a good thing. Houston could do much, much more!! 

                                  It does leave a bit of a quandry for the local tax-hungry government to ask people to conserve energy.  Lets assume, for a moment, that the city of Houston makes $1 billion dollars a year in tax revenue off $12 billion dollars a year in gasoline sales. If you ask consumers of gasoline to reduce their consumption, the city makes less money.  The same thing goes for electricity.   For every residential consjumer that pays an average of say $150 a month in electricity, if they reduce their electric power bills by $50 a month, then the city makes less money in tax revenues.   What is the incentive for the city to discourage energy consumption (and lower tax revenues) unless it is a catastrophic problem ( i.e. no supply)?  There would need to be a "tipping point" in voter behavior where 50+ % or more of voters insist the government institute alternative energy policies in order for the elected leaders (and tax hungry politicians) to budge. Even then, legislation would face tough, embedded, local energy lobbies.  The good news is, over time, this "tipping point" will occur and politicians will have to eventually institute alternative energy policies and programs to keep their voters and constituencies happy.   This momentum is already underway.  There is evidence of change - but it's happening slowly.   The rate of change in consumer/voter behavior towards majority opinions, and towards public action, is expected to accelerate as we run out of oil, as oil gets more expensive, and as consumers get pissed at the pump and with home electric bills.

                                  This happened in California six years ago after the big energy crisis.    Californians have found a way to grow their population and, at the same time, use less electricity per capita vs. the U.S.' growing per capita energy needs!  See the end of this message for an article on this.  Contributing factors to the reduction of electric power consumption per consumer include: the  installation of flourescent light bulbs, greater use of alternative energy by power generation utilities,
                                  rebates to consumers who install more energy-efficient air conditioners, refrigerators, and heating system,. and some other home insulation ideas many have discussed here that can be applied to Houston's residential and commercial properties.  California's measures are a tough act to follow in oil-friendly Texas. 

                                  Like Charlie Mauch said, Houston has a ways to go and lots of measures it could implement and mandate as  policy and in cooperation with utilities to do better (as California has been doing).  Hopefully we'll get there sooner than later.

                                  Will

                                  ==========================================
                                  Here is the 411 on Alternative Energy Initiatives in Houston Area:

                                  Hybrid Technology  - Mayor Bill White announced in April 2005 plans to convert a substantial portion of the City's fleet of cars, pickup trucks and sport utility vehicles to hybrids by the year 2010. The City fleet comprises more than 11,000 vehicles of which 3,554 are the civilian, light-duty, "non-specialty" fleet.  As of April, the City fleet included 130 hybrids with 76 Toyota Prius and 7 For Escape hybrids on order.
                                  Ethanol

                                  Ethanol  -  Houston's first ethanol (E85) fuel dispensing facility opened in October 2004 at NASA's Johnson Space Center. JSC is the second federal fleet in Texas to use E85, the first being a Department of Energy facility in Amarillo. Installation of the 1,000gallon, on-site, fuel-dispensing unit brings JSC into compliance with the Energy Policy Act of 1992 (EPAct) and Presidential Executive Order 13149. EPAct requires the acquisition of alternative fuel vehicles (AFVs) for federal fleets and Executive Order 13149 requires that federal fleets reduce their petroleum use 20 percent by 2005. AFVs are designed to run on any ethanol fuel blend up to 85 percent ethanol. JSC is now the fifth NASA center to add ethanol fueling capability. JSC employees are now mandated to use E85 in the 25 Flexible Fuel Vehicles in the GSA fleet assigned for employee use, if their official business takes them within a 50-mile radius of JSC. E85 is U.S.-made fuel from corn or corn by-products and offers superior performance because of its high octane rating (110 compared to 89 for gasoline). E85 cannot be used in conventional gasoline vehicles. Ethanol is not available at retail fuel stations within the state of Texas. 

                                  Wind  - Texas has leased an 11,000-acre region of the Gulf of Mexico, seven miles off Galveston Island, for gigantic wind turbines that could eventually power 40,000 homes and generate millions of dollars for state schools. The project marks a new era of pollution-free energy production for the Gulf.
                                  Biodiesel

                                  Biodiesel (private, not Houston government)- Houston Biodiesel educates about and promotes the use of clean, renewable, domestically produced biodiesel in all diesel engines. The company also sells high quality biodiesel that conforms to ASTM specifications and invites consumers to make their own biodiesel in their "BIG" batch reactor.   TexCom, Inc. is building and will operate a new 30 million gallon per year biodiesel plant at the LBC Houston LP bulk liquids terminal in Seabrook, Texas. TexCom plans to construct the multi-million dollar plant that will convert virgin soybean oil into biodiesel and utilize existing on-site storage capacity and other terminal facilities under a long-term lease from LBC. Project design includes the capability to store conventional petroleum diesel, allowing TexCom to blend and market B20 and other biodiesel blends as well as B100. Feedstock will be brought in via barge to the site, located near the Houston Ship Channel, to produce the renewable fuel.


                                  =========================================

                                  Energy: Wiser on the West Coast
                                  http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/jun2006/tc20060602_187912.htm

                                  From "smart meters" to white roofs, California is putting its crisis behind it

                                  It was six years ago this summer that the great California energy crisis began. The state hadn't built enough power plants to meet demand. Rogue energy traders swooped in, prices soared, and the state's largest utility went bankrupt.

                                  The crisis branded the nation's most populated state as a energy-industry basket case. "What's the difference between California and the Titanic?" recently convicted former Enron CEO Jeffrey Skilling once joked. "The Titanic went down with the lights on."

                                  Now, as temperatures creep up in much of the country and the peak air-conditioning season begins, it's worth noting that from an energy perspective, there's much good happening in California. More than 30 new power plants have come online in the past six years, generating 12,000 megawatts. The California Energy Commission estimates that it will have generation reserves of more than 20% this August, nearly three times what's required should power usage spike.

                                  The better story, though, lies on the demand side of the equation, or what the state's fitness-focused governor might call portion control. Since California began aggressively pursuing energy efficiency in the mid-1970s, the state's per-capita electricity usage has remained flat at around 6,500 kilowatt-hours per person. In the rest of the country, consumption has risen from 8,000 to 12,000 kilowatt-hours in the same time frame. In terms of carbon emissions, that's the equivalent of keeping 12 million cars off the road.

                                  UTILITIES ON BOARD.  How does California do it? Here's one way: The state requires that fluorescent bulbs be used in new construction or major remodels in many rooms of the house. Fluorescent lights are more than four times more efficient than incandescents, so if you're remodeling a kitchen, laundry, or bathroom in the Golden State, you have no choice. The standards are part of a massive set of statewide building codes called Title 24 that was passed in 1978. They get toughened every couple of years or so, and consumers get used to them. "They kind of accept it and move on," says Santa Monica architect Aleks Istanbullu.

                                  California has also succeeded by getting utilities involved in conservation. The state's big electric distributors shell out hundreds of millions of dollars every year in rebates to consumers who install more energy-efficient air conditioners, refrigerators, and heating systems. The rebates, budgeted at $2 billion between now and 2008, are intended to save $5 billion in power purchases. "Before we invest in traditional pipes and wires, we have to implement these programs," says Anne Shen Smith, senior vice-president for customer relations at San Diego Gas & Electric. "It's the equivalent of avoiding three new power plants."

                                  Utilities are also required to get more of their power from renewable sources, such as wind, solar, biomass, and geothermal. In 2002, California instituted one of the most extensive renewable programs in the country, requiring 20% of power from such sources by 2010, up from 10% today. The utilities are also being allowed to earn their regulated rate of return on new "smart meters" that collect customer-usage information in real time, allowing the energy providers to recommend ways for them to cut costs. "California's unique," says Greg Ander, chief architect for Southern California Edison. "Utilities have gotten very aggressive since the meltdown."

                                  WHITE-ROOF INITIATIVE.  Politicians have gotten into the game, too. Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger, who is campaigning for reelection in November, has jumped on the green bandwagon, earmarking $2.8 billion over 10 years to put small solar systems in place. His "Million Solar Roofs" program, started in January, provides cash to homeowners who choose to install such systems.

                                  The state has other initiatives in the works. California Energy Commissioner Arthur H. Rosenfeld, who has been called the father of energy conservation in the state, says his office is now working on regulations that would require all new roofs in the state to be white, because they absorb less heat and cut air-conditioning bills. "The pharaohs and the Greeks have known this for 5,000 years," he says. Regulations presently call for flat roofs to be white. The state is working with roofing manufacturers who have created pigments that mimic the energy-saving nature of white so that the regulations can be extended to sloped roofs and tiles by 2008.

                                  It may seem goofy, but what happens in California usually doesn't stay there. In the mid-1970s, California was a leader in pushing for more efficient appliances. Similar federal standards came into effect in 1992. The result is that even as the average size of refrigerators has increased, the power they use has fallen 75%, to roughly 400 kilowatt-hours per year. It's funny how fast things can turn around. It's not California that's sinking anymore.




                                  On 6/5/06, Paul Archer <tigger@...> wrote:
                                  7:00am, will thurmond wrote:

                                  > Edward
                                  >
                                  > I'll try to say this politely - please step off the soapbox. You have
                                  > repeatedly made unsubstantiated statements on the HREG listserv, much to the
                                  > chagrin of its members.   You should know what you're talking about before
                                  > making declarations.  If you research what you wish to discuss before you
                                  > enter the "soapbox zone", you will understand the issue.  You will also have
                                  > factual, actual, information to substantiate your argument, and a solid
                                  > platform to stand on. Please employ more facts and less conjecture and
                                  > hyperbole in your entries.
                                  >
                                  > One example - you said "The city of Houston has not not taken heed to this
                                  > warning. they are by far the largest user of electricity, yet have not one
                                  > action plan to make changes."   Where did you get this information from
                                  > Edward? An update to your statement in the p.s. will bring you current on
                                  > this "declaration."
                                  >
                                  > I wish you all the best in expressing yourself as factually as you do
                                  > actually.  You will find greater support for your ideas if they are
                                  > defend-able.  Good luck.
                                  >
                                  > Will
                                  >
                                  > p.s.  here is some information on Houston's Alternative Energy initiatives
                                  > that will update your last statement. You will learn there are "more than a
                                  > few" Alt-Energy initiatives in Houston, contrary to your previous
                                  > statements.   That is, if you have a real interest in Renewable Energy and
                                  > Alt-Energy projects. Otherwise, you wouldn't be here, right?
                                  >
                                  [massive snippage]

                                  Will, I wholeheartedly agree with you in that *whoever* is speaking in a
                                  forum like this should have his/her facts together first.
                                  And I agree that Edward did not back up his claim that "[t]he City of
                                  Houston ...have not one action plan to make changes." However, I think you
                                  misread his statement, as the the information you included (which I've
                                  snipped for space) did not counter that charge.
                                  The specific claim was, I believe, that the City of Houston (that is the
                                  munincipal government, not the inhabitants of Houston as a whole), which
                                  most likely is the single largest consumer of electricity in the city, has
                                  not taken action to reduce its energy usage. Your included information did
                                  mention solar-powered school "crossing" lights (although I think it meant
                                  school zone lights). I've seen these and similar lights all over the
                                  country. They do save electricity, but considering how much light they put
                                  out (a blink or two a second for two hours a day 5 days a week, 9 months a
                                  year), I would guess that the primary motivation for them is to save
                                  installation costs rather than power.

                                  Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is just that I think Edward does bring
                                  up a good point: I don't know *what* the City of Houston is up to as far as
                                  energy consumption and conservation, but I'd like to find out.


                                  Paul



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                                • Kevin L. Conlin
                                  Edward, your production cost estimate for PV seems a little low at $.06-.07 per kWh, would you mind sharing your calculations with us? Thanks and regards,
                                  Message 17 of 23 , Jun 5, 2006
                                  • 0 Attachment

                                    Edward,  your production cost estimate for PV seems a little low at $.06-.07 per kWh, would you mind sharing your calculations with us?

                                     

                                    Thanks and regards,  Kevin

                                     

                                    ________________________

                                    Kevin Conlin
                                    Solarcraft, Inc.
                                    13130 Stafford Road, Suite 125
                                    Stafford, TX 77477-4536
                                    (281)495-0438
                                    fax (281)495-0440
                                    kconlin@...
                                    www.solarcraft.net

                                     


                                    From: Edward Kramer [mailto:onekindr@...]
                                    Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 12:02 PM
                                    To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: Re: [hreg] Re: Roger Ebert reviews An Inconvenient Truth

                                     

                                    I would disagree with you, an installed 50 k system after rebates and incentives produces electricity for roughly 6-7 cents a killowatt for a minimum of 25 years-really forever. I would say that is a good business investment. When you have a "free" power source such as the sun, no moving parts to wear out (no maintenace costs), I would call that a win -win-win and oh yes, not a single ounce of greenhouse gas emmision. Subsidies, why does oil and gas, coal and rail pay no taxes!

                                    ----- Original Message -----

                                    Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 11:47 AM

                                    Subject: Re: [hreg] Re: Roger Ebert reviews An Inconvenient Truth

                                     

                                    I think a better question for us to ask is why do these corporations purchase and install renewable energy in other locations but not in Texas? 

                                     

                                    The short answer is because utility prices are still relatively low here in Texas and not as high as they are in California and other states.  This is especially true where the taxpayer subsidizes the cost of electricity for municipally owned utilities and rural co-ops.  This subsidy artificially keeps the price of electricity low for large commercial consumers. 

                                     

                                    The irony is that if a poor electric consumer and taxpayer cannot pay their bill these subsidized utilities will not hesitate to disconnect the user's power.  However, if and when large commercial consumers are late with their payments the utilities will bend over backwards to accomodate them. 




                                     

                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: Edward Kramer
                                    Sent: Jun 5, 2006 11:25 AM
                                    To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: Re: [hreg] Re: Roger Ebert reviews An Inconvenient Truth


                                    Will, 

                                     

                                       Why does the city of Austin have a rebate plan, allocated from the tax revenues it receives from electric bills to promote the installation of PV systems.?  why dioes Walgreen does install 122 of their stores in California with PV systems. Why does Whole Foods Markets, based out of Austin , with four stores in Houston install PV systems in their California stores and "green" it up on their web site.Could it be they are good stewards of the environment, or that they are taking advantage of Federal and local financial (rebate) incentives to add solar. What incentive plan does the city of Houston have? One nice thing about this forum is that we exchange ideas and might come to some important dialogue.  Just briefing thru your add on I see a lot of wind farms. They are nice, but where are they located? West Texas is nie for wind farms, but that is a long way from my home.

                                    ----- Original Message -----

                                    Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 8:00 AM

                                    Subject: Re: [hreg] Re: Roger Ebert reviews An Inconvenient Truth

                                     

                                    Edward

                                    I'll try to say this politely - please step off the soapbox. You have repeatedly made unsubstantiated statements on the HREG listserv, much to the chagrin of its members.   You should know what you're talking about before making declarations.  If you research what you wish to discuss before you enter the "soapbox zone", you will understand the issue.  You will also have factual, actual, information to substantiate your argument, and a solid platform to stand on. Please employ more facts and less conjecture and hyperbole in your entries.


                                    One example - you said "The city of Houston has not not taken heed to this warning. they are by far the largest user of electricity, yet have not one action plan to make changes."   Where did you get this information from Edward? An update to your statement in the p.s. will bring you current on this "declaration."

                                    I wish you all the best in expressing yourself as factually as you do actually.  You will find greater support for your ideas if they are defend-able.  Good luck.

                                    Will

                                    p.s.  here is some information on Houston's Alternative Energy initiatives that will update your last statement. You will learn there are "more than a few" Alt-Energy initiatives in Houston, contrary to your previous statements.   That is, if you have a real interest in Renewable Energy and Alt-Energy projects. Otherwise, you wouldn't be here, right?

                                    ========================================

                                    Alternative Energy Industry Guide to Houston
                                    http://www.houston.org/industryGuide/alternativeEnergy.asp

                                    As the Energy Capital of the World, Houston uses its spirit of innovation and collaboration to forge new ground across all aspects of the energy sector.

                                    Extensive research and development is underway on developing energy sources that are not based on the burning of fossil fuels or the splitting of atoms. These include geothermal, wind, tide, solar, ground source heat pumps, biofuels hydroelectric and hydrogen fuel cells. The Greater Houston Partnership is working with area organizations to develop and demonstrate advanced hydrogen and fuel cell technologies that will reduce our nation's dependency on oil, improve air quality and maintain the region's economic competitiveness.

                                    Houston has the tools and infrastructure in place to capitalize on this emerging sector of the energy industry.

                                    Industry Facts:

                                    • Texas is one of the top three states in the country in wind power potential
                                    • In 2003, Texas installed more wind power than the entire United States had in any other year
                                    • Many of Houston's school crossing lights are powered by solar energy

                                    Green Mountain Energy Case Study

                                    Green Mountain Energy is one of 11 electric retailers from whom Houstonians can purchase their electric power. Much of Green Mountain Energy's source for electricity is wind power.

                                    The Green Mountain Energy Wind Farm in Borden and Scurry counties in West Texas produces enough electricity to power 30,000 homes.

                                    Alternative Energy Downloadable Fact Sheet

                                    Who's Who in Houston Alternative Enery:

                                    Alternative Energy Resources:

                                    • Business Development Division of the Greater Houston Partnership
                                    • Houston Advanced Research Center
                                    • Houston Energy Collaborative
                                    • Houston Technology Center

                                    Energy Events in Houston

                                    Energy events bring together top talent, innovation and information.

                                    • Energy events in Houston include: the Offshore Technology Conference (OTC) and the Energy Venture Forum. Held annually in Houston, OTC is the energy industry's premier conference and exhibition focused on deepwater offshore technology. The 51,320 participants from 110 nations in 2005 represented OTC's highest attendance since 1985. The exhibition included 2,087 exhibiting companies, totaling more than 410,000 net square feet, filling all available indoor and outdoor space.
                                    • The Energy Venture Forum at Houston's Rice University introduces the most promising early-stage energy-related technology companies to leading venture capitalists. Participants hear about cutting-edge research and learn about emerging technology developments in traditional and alternative energy. Approximately 450 attendees participated in 2004.

                                    Energy Resources in Houston

                                    Where to go and what to do if you're thinking of starting, moving or expanding your business in Houston.

                                    Some fuel for thought: From oil and gas to chemical development and production, the 10-county Houston region is the center of all things energy. The region offers a solid energy and chemical foundation and a workforce skilled in meeting the sector's needs. The region's large concentration of oil expertise and experience is a magnet attracting more oil expertise and experience to the area.

                                    The Greater Houston Partnership has a unique place among business organizations. It combines opportunities for economic development, international business and public policy development. As the Houston region's primary business advocate, the Partnership helps keep businesses connected and works in their interests.

                                    Energy Facts

                                    • Forty-eight percent of the region's economic base employment is related to energy.
                                    • Houston is headquarters for 17 energy-related Fortune 500 companies.
                                    • Houston is home to the cutting-edge Offshore Technology Conference (OTC).
                                    • Houston houses more than 3,600 energy-related establishments.
                                    • Houston is home to 13 of the nation's 20 largest natural gas transmission companies.
                                    • Houston has nearly 600 exploration and production firms.
                                    • Houston has more than 170 pipeline operators.
                                    • Hundreds of manufacturers of energy-sector products call Houston home.

                                    In recent years, industry giants such as CITGO and Noble and smaller energy-related companies including Johnson Engineering and Hydralift, Inc. have relocated to Houston. Another 192 energy businesses have found Houston fertile ground for growth. In every case, expansions and relocations equal jobs for the Houston region.

                                    Houston Entrepreneurial Enterprises Facts:

                                    • The Houston region is home to more than 85,000 small businesses
                                    • Houston's dynamic economy, well-developed information technology sector, talented workforce, business-friendly environment, low costs of living and ease of doing business make it a natural magnet for entrepreneurs.
                                    • Houston ranked #2 on the Milken Institute's 2003 Best-Performing Cities Index
                                    • Site Selection magazine ranked the Houston-Baytown-Sugar Land metro area in the top 10 of Metro Areas for Investment in its March, 2004 issue
                                    • Houston has the lowest cost of living among the country's 24 largest metropolitan areas, according to the ACCRA Cost of Living Index for the first quarter of 2005
                                    • With no state personal income or state property taxes, Houston has one of the lowest per-family tax burdens of any major U.S. city

                                    Enterpreneurial Enterprises Resources:

                                    • The Greater Houston Partnership Emerging Business Council
                                    • The Greater Houston Partnership Business Development Division
                                    • Texas Economic Development Web site
                                    • Small Business Administration
                                    • University of Houston Small Business Development Center

                                    Enterpreneurial Enterprises Events:

                                    The Greater Houston Partnership Super Summit, held yearly, helps emerging businesses learn to better partner with established corporations

                                     

                                    ============================================

                                    Oil Companies, Experts Discuss Alternative Energy Development

                                    http://www.voanews.com/english/archive/2006-02/2006-02-07-voa1.cfm?CFID=14451546&CFTOKEN=59544590
                                    By Greg Flakus
                                    Houston 07 February 2006

                                     

                                     

                                    Around 1,800 oil and gas company executives, government energy ministers and other players in the world energy sector have gathered in Houston for a special emphasis on developing new sources of energy.

                                    The theme for this year's conference is "The New Prize: Energy's Next Era," and that encompasses everything from extraction of oil from Canada's extensive tar sands to development of solar power and ethanol.

                                    CERA Senior Advisor James Rosenfield is one of the three men who founded the conference in 1983. He tells VOA that many of the big oil companies represented here are already investing a lot of money in alternative energy programs.

                                    "A lot of the new economy of energy is going to be driven by the international oil companies such as Shell, BP and Exxon, who are really investing billions and billions of dollars in R and D (Research and Development) for new sources of supply, solar alternatives, fuel cells, distributed generation, really across the spectrum," Rosenfield said. "In the case of BP, their focus has been on electric power, actually, using a lot of their technology to look at alternative and renewable sources of electric power generation."

                                    Rosenfield says using CERAWeek to focus on such issues as alternative energy, non-conventional oil sources and conservation could have important consequences worldwide because participants represent every aspect of the international energy business.

                                    "We will have exploration and production companies, national oil companies, integrated oil companies, but also utilities, energy end users, consumers such as Dow and Boeing and some of the automotive companies as well and then the financial institutions that provide the capital, in many cases, for the industry," he said.

                                    Included in the mix of participants are representatives from several member nations of the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries, known as OPEC. One of the chief speakers at the opening ceremony Tuesday will be Saudi Arabia's Oil Minister, Ali Naimi.

                                    OPEC leaders have at times expressed concern over US and European efforts to develop alternative energy because it could divert investment from development of conventional energy sources. In an appearance here in Houston last year, the head of the Saudi oil company, Aramco, said his nation's vast oil reserves represent a reliable supply of energy that alternative energy programs are not likely to equal any time soon.

                                    But Rosenfield says he does not believe the Saudis are against development of other energy sources.

                                    "I think that the Saudis actually take a view that we are in this together, that we need to build the world's oil and energy supply, to build a stable and diversified supply base," he added. "We will hear from Mr. Naimi and what he has to say, but, while they are committed to an oil and hydrocarbon economy, they also recognize that over multi-decades we are going to be looking towards a lot of different sources of supply as well."

                                    In his state of the union address last week, President Bush called for programs that would lessen U.S. dependence on foreign sources of oil and gave special emphasis to the development of biofuels like ethanol. Brazil, which has a successful ethanol program based on fuel from sugar cane, is also represented at CERAWeek and Rosenfield says he expects a lot of discussion among participants about such programs.

                                    =====================================


                                    On 6/5/06, Edward Kramer <onekindr@...> wrote:

                                    Maybe what I meant to say is carbon is in your every day life -from the tires on the car (are they rubber): or the PC housing, to the packageing of your groceries etc. That is our foundation of consumer products. Does a barrel of oil go for 100 % usage of  gasoline and petrol products? Next time you eat a chocolate bar, think of what is in that chocolate bar. The real treasure thats in  oil is the refined black carbon, the building block of a plastics. Plastics equate to consumption which equals growth. The delimea we face is how to conserve. If you watch PBS, even Chevron advertises that half the worlds energy supply is used up, the problem is how to effectively use the rest. For sure, it is going to be more expensive, and hence under a capitilistic system, the growth of other competing dollar entities are going to shrink. That is not a good thing at all. The city of Houston has not not taken heed to this warning. they are by far the largest user of electricity, yet have not one action plan to make changes. I heard they found some federal money and invested in a wind farm at King Ranch. Maybe they can open an annex buiding next door.

                                    ----- Original Message -----

                                    From: pencil1959

                                    Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 11:37 PM

                                    Subject: [hreg] Re: Roger Ebert reviews An Inconvenient Truth

                                     

                                    Maybe I'm misunderstanding your comments, but please note that: 
                                    (1) "black carbon" is not the basic building block of life; (2)
                                    carbon is an element that is indeed the building block of life; (3)
                                    carbon in various molecular forms is "burned" by animals every day
                                    to form CO2; (4) CO2 is "recycled" by plants that convert it into
                                    sugars, cellulose, etc. that are then used by animals via #2, as
                                    well as used for building houses, burning to heat them, etc.; marine
                                    invertebrates fix a lot of CO2 by incorporation into carbonates,
                                    which we humans also use in various ways; (5) I haven't read any
                                    serious scientists proposing that we will exhaust the world's carbon
                                    supply by burning it up; (6) none of this is to dispute that CO2
                                    levels are at record highs, but simply to remind HREG readers that
                                    the chemistry of the carbon cycle is complex and varied because it
                                    IS the foundation of life--let's try to keep the basic facts
                                    straight.

                                    Robert Johnston


                                    --- In hreg@yahoogroups.com, "Edward Kramer" <onekindr@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > A geophysicist will argue that we are in a natural warming caused
                                    by changing sea levels, shift in plates and natural changes in the
                                    jet stream. Global warming might be a small cause of the natural
                                    warming trend, and the earth atmosphee can handle any Co2 gases that
                                    we humans combust. Electricity is suppose to make our life better,
                                    and if we do not find a sustainable source of electricity, life for
                                    our children and theirs will revert to prehistoric times. We are
                                    here for a very short time, we should only borrow from mother
                                    nature, not take. If we deplete the carbon resources,
                                    > what is the next generation going to do for the very basic
                                    building life of all matter-black carbon. Rather than utilizing the
                                    carbon for the solid production of physical goods, we are burning it
                                    up in combustion for electricity. Once its gone, its gone. If we do
                                    not wake up and make some serious changes in our lifestyles, how we
                                    use the exiting resources, the future does not look so bright the
                                    children.
                                    >   ----- Original Message -----
                                    >   From: Sarah Carriger
                                    >   To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                                    >   Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 6:53 PM
                                    >   Subject: Re: [hreg] Roger Ebert reviews An Inconvenient Truth
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >   I do not understand the comment of where the children are going
                                    to play.  Same place they played before the turn of the 20th
                                    century - before oil production became a big business - outside.  If
                                    fossil fuel is causing global warming, then isn't this a good thing
                                    that we run out of fossil fuels???  This planet and her inhabitants
                                    survived just fine without oil and we can do it again.  It appears
                                    that only when the supply is indeed limited will there be any
                                    advances in alternative energy production, because at that point
                                    there will be no choice.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >   Edward Kramer wrote:
                                    >     Thanks for the invite, but I would rather conserve my fuel, as
                                    the round trip from my house is costly and I will do my part to help
                                    the future. Remeber, there is only 70-80 year supply of fossil fuel
                                    in the world. Where are the chiildren going to play?
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
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