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Re: [hreg] upgrading rental properties

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  • Prasad Enjeti
    Sounds like a interesting project for senior level undergraduate student team at Texas A&M to explore what are the best options.. for energy savings.. Let me
    Message 1 of 16 , May 25 7:28 AM
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      Sounds like a interesting project for senior level undergraduate student team at Texas A&M to explore what are the best options.. for energy savings.. Let me know if you are interested..

      Best

      Rohini Bosamia <rohinib@...> wrote:
      Nan,
       
      The houses are from the 50s and 60s and are located in Bryan.  All 8 eight houses are on the same block and are rented to graduate students from the same department at Texas A&M.  Regarding energy production, I thought there might have been an opportunity to do something unique since they are all adjacent or across the street from each other.
       
      None of the houses had any insulation.  Installing the insulation, caulking, and attic ventilation are routine improvements.  Windows are slowly getting changed as well.  Even with this, they are far from air-tight because they are just small, older houses which were neglected years ago.  Fortunately, there are large trees around most of the houses, and other have been planted.  A few houses had clotheslines, but they were never used.  
       
      ethan  
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2006 3:52 AM
      Subject: Re: [hreg] upgrading rental properties

      Yes, but as an energy conscious landlady for my four 1950 houses, I identified many improvements that payback within a year or two, faster than solar.  Then I haven't done any of them:
      Screens (solar or not)
      Clothesline.
      Ventilate attic
      Caulk
      Insulate
      Window film or awnings on west and east facing windows.
      Radiant barrier over insulation
      Upgrade fridge
      Replace dusk-to-dawn outside light with a motion detector light.




      ************************************************************
      Dr. Prasad Enjeti Power Electronics & Power Quality Laboratory
      Professor, Fellow of IEEE Department of Electrical Engineering
      Texas A&M University
      College Station, TX - 77843-3128
      Tel: 979-845-7466
      Fax: 979-845-6259
      Email: enjeti@... ; http://enjeti.tamu.edu
      *************************************************************


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    • Kevin L. Conlin
      Hi Bashir, Thank you for your post, I m not sure I agree with your assessment. You may not like the comment that solar is expensive, but I don t think it is
      Message 2 of 16 , May 25 9:11 AM
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        Hi Bashir,  Thank you for your post, I’m not sure I agree with your assessment.  You may not like the comment that solar is expensive, but I don’t think it is deceptive.  If not for tax credits, utility rebates and aggressive buy-back programs, photovoltaics would not be enjoying the world wide boom that is currently happening.  You are correct in stating that the payback for stand alone systems is much shorter, usually due to the high cost of utility line extensions.  For the industrial systems that we build the payback is usually immediate

        Ethan asked for advice in the context of a landlord wanting to upgrade the energy efficiency of rental houses.  If you spent equal amounts of money on PV or efficiency upgrades such as a higher efficiency air conditioner, extra insulation, radiant barriers, solar screens, caulking, etc, such as Nan Hildreth pointed out, the payback would be much quicker on the efficiency upgrades than it would on the PV.  While I applaud people that invest in PV for their homes for the reasons that you mentioned, from the standpoint of the landlord it makes more sense to reduce the utility bills through conservation measures than it does to try and generate your own electricity, especially in older, leaky houses with little or no insulation.

        You are correct in that we should all take personal responsibility for the negative impact out energy habits have on the environment and do the best we can to reduce those impacts, I think you would have to agree that if you can save twice as much energy through conservation that you can generate with PV, the positive impact of those steps will have a greater benefit to the planet.

        I don’t want to sound negative about residential PV, I would love it if Center Point would initiate a rebate program like the City of Austin , it would have a very positive impact on the city. I applaud the people that have moved forward and installed PV in spite of the lack of incentives.  I just don’t think it is the best thing a landlord can due to upgrade energy wasting houses.

         

        Enough for now, I’ve got to get back to work!

         

        ________________________

        Kevin Conlin
        Solarcraft, Inc.
        13130 Stafford Road, Suite 125
        Stafford, TX 77477-4536
        (281)495-0438
        fax (281)495-0440
        kconlin@...
        www.solarcraft.net

         


        From: Bashir Syed [mailto:bsyed@...]
        Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 3:18 PM
        To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [hreg] upgrading rental properties

         

        We keep on hearing repeatedly about "technology as expensive as solar." This is very deceptive "label for Solar Energy Technology." What is never explained to people is that everything costs to bring about a change. For example when one wants to upgrade an autmobile, today it costs more compared to ten years ago, but people buy it because of necessity.

        The cost of energy supplied by utility companies is going to keep on increasing without any returns to the consumers including many hidden charges. But what's more satisfying than spending the money up front to install a PV Home System to supplement the ever increasing cost of energy, and doing one's duty to curb the airpollution, producing many millions of deaths from those poisons in the air we inhale. Even big corporations in Manhattan, New York are installing Solar Panels up on the roof and around Building Facade and feeding this energy back to the grid to cut dow n the effective bills. And in the long run, even  a Stand-Alone systems pays itself back from 5 to seven years, after which the consumer is totally independent (other than replacing the batteries and maintaining the system) the Sunshine is absolutely free. It's like buying a new car or by riding a public transport, which over the life of an automobile would eventualy cost more when one uses public transport plus the dependence.

        ----- Original Message -----

        Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 2:11 PM

        Subject: RE: [hreg] upgrading rental properties

         

        Ethan,  Because the renter is responsible for paying the utility bills, and
        the landlord does not control how much energy the tenant uses, there is
        little incentive for the owner to upgrade, especially with a technology as
        expensive as solar. Rental properties are usually bought with cash flow in
        mind, and an investment in solar will negatively affect this, so I think you
        are going to have a tough sell.
        While it's true that the house might be more appealing to a prospective
        renter if it had solar, I just don't think the owner would invest that kind
        of money for a relatively small benefit.

        ________________________
        Kevin Conlin
        Solarcraft, Inc.
        13130 Stafford Road, Suite 125
        Stafford, TX 77477-4536
        (281)495-0438
        fax (281)495-0440
        kconlin@...
        www.solarcraft.net


        -----Original Message-----
        From: Rohini Bosamia [mailto:rohinib@...]
        Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 1:00 PM
        To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [hreg] upgrading rental properties

        Are there feasible opportunities to include renewable energy concepts into
        rental properties?

        I am updating several rental properties(single family homes on same street)
        and would consider changes to the energy use/production of each home.  Many
        of the homes are adjacent lots which may provide additional opportunities.
        There does not seem to be much info on this topic.  Any rebates are also
        limited because the homes are not my primary residence.

        Any insights or experiences would be appreciated.

        Thanks,
        Ethan






        Yahoo! Groups Links









      • Rohini Bosamia
        Nan, rohinib@earthlink.net ethan
        Message 3 of 16 , May 25 9:16 AM
        • 0 Attachment
          Nan,
           
           
          ethan
        • Bashir Syed
          Kevin: I am in a hurry to take a flight tomorrow morning to attending the REAsia 2006 Conf. & Exhibition in Beijing, China. I will respond after my return
          Message 4 of 16 , May 25 2:36 PM
          • 0 Attachment
            Kevin:
            I am in a hurry to take a flight tomorrow morning to attending the REAsia 2006 Conf. & Exhibition in Beijing, China. I will respond after my return (June 2, 2006). Conservation first and RE later could do half the job.
             
            Bashir A. Syed
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2006 11:11 AM
            Subject: RE: [hreg] upgrading rental properties

            Hi Bashir,  Thank you for your post, I’m not sure I agree with your assessment.  You may not like the comment that solar is expensive, but I don’t think it is deceptive.  If not for tax credits, utility rebates and aggressive buy-back programs, photovoltaics would not be enjoying the world wide boom that is currently happening.  You are correct in stating that the payback for stand alone systems is much shorter, usually due to the high cost of utility line extensions.  For the industrial systems that we build the payback is usually immediate

            Ethan asked for advice in the context of a landlord wanting to upgrade the energy efficiency of rental houses.  If you spent equal amounts of money on PV or efficiency upgrades such as a higher efficiency air conditioner, extra insulation, radiant barriers, solar screens, caulking, etc, such as Nan Hildreth pointed out, the payback would be much quicker on the efficiency upgrades than it would on the PV.  While I applaud people that invest in PV for their homes for the reasons that you mentioned, from the standpoint of the landlord it makes more sense to reduce the utility bills through conservation measures than it does to try and generate your own electricity, especially in older, leaky houses with little or no insulation.

            You are correct in that we should all take personal responsibility for the negative impact out energy habits have on the environment and do the best we can to reduce those impacts, I think you would have to agree that if you can save twice as much energy through conservation that you can generate with PV, the positive impact of those steps will have a greater benefit to the planet.

            I don’t want to sound negative about residential PV, I would love it if Center Point would initiate a rebate program like the City of Austin , it would have a very positive impact on the city. I applaud the people that have moved forward and installed PV in spite of the lack of incentives.  I just don’t think it is the best thing a landlord can due to upgrade energy wasting houses.

             

            Enough for now, I’ve got to get back to work!

             

            ________________________

            Kevin Conlin
            Solarcraft, Inc.
            13130 Stafford Road, Suite 125
            Stafford, TX 77477-4536
            (281)495-0438
            fax (281)495-0440
            kconlin@...
            www.solarcraft.net

             


            From: Bashir Syed [mailto:bsyed@...]
            Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 3:18 PM
            To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [hreg] upgrading rental properties

             

            We keep on hearing repeatedly about "technology as expensive as solar." This is very deceptive "label for Solar Energy Technology." What is never explained to people is that everything costs to bring about a change. For example when one wants to upgrade an autmobile, today it costs more compared to ten years ago, but people buy it because of necessity.

            The cost of energy supplied by utility companies is going to keep on increasing without any returns to the consumers including many hidden charges. But what's more satisfying than spending the money up front to install a PV Home System to supplement the ever increasing cost of energy, and doing one's duty to curb the airpollution, producing many millions of deaths from those poisons in the air we inhale. Even big corporations in Manhattan, New York are installing Solar Panels up on the roof and around Building Facade and feeding this energy back to the grid to cut dow n the effective bills. And in the long run, even  a Stand-Alone systems pays itself back from 5 to seven years, after which the consumer is totally independent (other than replacing the batteries and maintaining the system) the Sunshine is absolutely free. It's like buying a new car or by riding a public transport, which over the life of an automobile would eventualy cost more when one uses public transport plus the dependence.

            ----- Original Message -----

            Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 2:11 PM

            Subject: RE: [hreg] upgrading rental properties

             

            Ethan,  Because the renter is responsible for paying the utility bills, and
            the landlord does not control how much energy the tenant uses, there is
            little incentive for the owner to upgrade, especially with a technology as
            expensive as solar. Rental properties are usually bought with cash flow in
            mind, and an investment in solar will negatively affect this, so I think you
            are going to have a tough sell.
            While it's true that the house might be more appealing to a prospective
            renter if it had solar, I just don't think the owner would invest that kind
            of money for a relatively small benefit.

            ________________________
            Kevin Conlin
            Solarcraft, Inc.
            13130 Stafford Road, Suite 125
            Stafford, TX 77477-4536
            (281)495-0438
            fax (281)495-0440
            kconlin@...
            www.solarcraft.net


            -----Original Message-----
            From: Rohini Bosamia [mailto:rohinib@...]
            Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 1:00 PM
            To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [hreg] upgrading rental properties

            Are there feasible opportunities to include renewable energy concepts into
            rental properties?

            I am updating several rental properties(single family homes on same street)
            and would consider changes to the energy use/production of each home.  Many
            of the homes are adjacent lots which may provide additional opportunities.
            There does not seem to be much info on this topic.  Any rebates are also
            limited because the homes are not my primary residence.

            Any insights or experiences would be appreciated.

            Thanks,
            Ethan






            Yahoo! Groups Links









          • Andrew McCalla
            Bashir, When you get back, will you direct us to some of the commercially available pv/thermal hybrid product? Thanks and have a safe trip. Andrew H. McCalla
            Message 5 of 16 , May 26 5:53 AM
            • 0 Attachment

              Bashir,

               

              When you get back, will you direct us to some of the commercially available pv/thermal hybrid product?

               

              Thanks and have a safe trip.

               

              Andrew H. McCalla

              Meridian Energy Systems

              2300 S. Lamar, Ste. 107

              Austin, TX   78704

               

              Voice: (512) 448-0055

              Fax:    (512) 448-0045

              www.meridiansolar.com

               


              From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto: hreg@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Bashir Syed
              Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2006 9:13 AM
              To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [hreg] upgrading rental properties

               

              In China and Israel , it's mandatory that every building/home installs and integrated Solar Thermal Collector on top of which sit a PV Module. Sun's heat is trasfered blow to the Thermal collectors. I saw a solar thermal system for hot water under test bring temperature up between 45 to 48 degree Celsius (centigrade). The other advantage of integrating PV with thermal Collectors is that in the long run it increases the fficiency and life of the PV system in extremely hot places. 

              PV systems are the quitest and have no moving parts, but generate electricity based on number of hours of Sunshine.   

              ----- Original Message -----

              Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2006 7:56 AM

              Subject: Re: [hreg] upgrading rental properties

               

              Acute awareness of cash flow is there, but was hoping there were more
              monetary/tax incentives to do something.  Making/saving money for me was not
              the goal, but if it could be cost-neutral or at least not too much(either
              with direct or tax incentives) to helps others save, it would be
              provocative.  Since all of the houses are adjacent to each other, "neighbor"
              issues are less.  Quiet, microturbines could work, but I have yet to find
              one which was quiet enough to locate outside a bedroom window.  Even a
              shared solar water heater sounds interesting.  Not sure how to address water
              quantities from different houses, but still interesting.

              ethan

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Kevin L. Conlin" <kconlin@...>
              To: < hreg@yahoogroups.com >
              Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 2:11 PM
              Subject: RE: [hreg] upgrading rental properties


              > Ethan,  Because the renter is responsible for paying the utility bills,
              and
              > the landlord does not control how much energy the tenant uses, there is
              > little incentive for the owner to upgrade, especially with a technology as
              > expensive as solar. Rental properties are usually bought with cash flow in
              > mind, and an investment in solar will negatively affect this, so I think
              you
              > are going to have a tough sell.
              > While it's true that the house might be more appealing to a prospective
              > renter if it had solar, I just don't think the owner would invest that
              kind
              > of money for a relatively small benefit.
              >
              > ________________________
              > Kevin Conlin
              > Solarcraft, Inc.
              > 13130 Stafford Road, Suite 125
              > Stafford , TX 77477-4536
              > (281)495-0438
              > fax (281)495-0440
              > kconlin@...
              > www.solarcraft.net
              >
              >



            • Nan Hildreth
              On cash flow, my tenants utility bills are, in some months, 30% to 50% of rent. To keep the tenants, installing some efficiency methods make sense. Yes,
              Message 6 of 16 , May 26 8:33 AM
              • 0 Attachment
                On cash flow, my tenants utility bills are, in some months, 30% to
                50% of rent. To keep the tenants, installing some efficiency methods
                make sense.

                Yes, tenants waste energy, and as landlord I can explain how they can
                skrimp. BTW, it seems the federal tax credit for new windows,
                insulating, etc, doesn't apply to rent houses.

                At 07:56 AM 5/25/2006, Rohini Bosamia wrote:
                >Acute awareness of cash flow is there, but was hoping there were more
                >monetary/tax incentives to do something. Making/saving money for me was not
                >the goal, but if it could be cost-neutral or at least not too much(either
                >with direct or tax incentives) to helps others save, it would be
                >provocative. Since all of the houses are adjacent to each other, "neighbor"
                >issues are less. Quiet, microturbines could work, but I have yet to find
                >one which was quiet enough to locate outside a bedroom window. Even a
                >shared solar water heater sounds interesting. Not sure how to address water
                >quantities from different houses, but still interesting.
                >
                >ethan
                >
                >----- Original Message -----
                >From: "Kevin L. Conlin" <kconlin@...>
                >To: <hreg@yahoogroups.com>
                >Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 2:11 PM
                >Subject: RE: [hreg] upgrading rental properties
                >
                >
                > > Ethan, Because the renter is responsible for paying the utility bills,
                >and
                > > the landlord does not control how much energy the tenant uses, there is
                > > little incentive for the owner to upgrade, especially with a technology as
                > > expensive as solar. Rental properties are usually bought with cash flow in
                > > mind, and an investment in solar will negatively affect this, so I think
                >you
                > > are going to have a tough sell.
                > > While it's true that the house might be more appealing to a prospective
                > > renter if it had solar, I just don't think the owner would invest that
                >kind
                > > of money for a relatively small benefit.
                > >
                > > ________________________
                > > Kevin Conlin
                > > Solarcraft, Inc.
                > > 13130 Stafford Road, Suite 125
                > > Stafford, TX 77477-4536
                > > (281)495-0438
                > > fax (281)495-0440
                > > kconlin@...
                > > www.solarcraft.net
                > >
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >


                Nan Hildreth, 713-842-6643 NanHildreth@...
                3939 Luca St. Houston, Tx 77021

                "Life is a daring adventure, or nothing. To keep our faces toward
                change and behave like free spirits in the presence of fate is
                strength undefeatable."
                Helen Keller
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