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RE: [hreg] Are oil company making windfall profits?

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  • Nan Hildreth
    The Chron said, in an editorial maybe a month ago, that windfall profits enable oil companies to make the huge investment to develop new sources of energy.
    Message 1 of 23 , Apr 28, 2006
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      The Chron said, in an editorial maybe a month ago, that windfall profits enable oil companies to make the huge investment to develop new sources of energy.  And so the community should be nice to oil companies.    IEA says it will take trillions of new investment to keep us supplied with energy.  Shale oil for example, requires new tools, skills, etc.  But Exxon, unlike BP & Shell, has not yet invested in clean energy, like wind and solar.

      I would someone to write an op-ed or letter to the editor of the Chronicle discussing the morality of Exxon's refusal to invest in clean energy.  I'd write it but I just turned in an op-ed two days ago about global warming, how I feel about it, local impacts, and what you can do about it.  

      Letters are very well read by all Congressional staff and other policy fans.  Yes, maybe you've tried before and been ignored, but the Chron can only print about 10% of the letters it gets.  And at least you helped educate the Chron. 

      The Chron has printed more than half of my letters.    I work hard to keep them short (100-300 words, 400 at max), well written, provocative but respectful.   (But I've never turned in an op-ed before.)  Put your name, address and home phone at the bottom and email your letter to Viewpoints@....    They may sit on it a week before printing it.  They try to print only one letter from each person every 3 months.  

      Nan Hildreth

      At 10:41 AM 4/28/2006, Shafer, Mark B wrote:
      Windfall profits are a distraction.  Having been in the oil patch, twice, I have witnessed  the industry behavior - sometimes it's good, very good, and then it's very bad.  The oil patch cratered in the early 80.  News paper headlines read "1960 (the street) corridor of forclosure".  Geologists got jobs as claims adjusters.  Brown and root engineers started selling real estate. 
       
      I think we need to focus on key points:
          1. Oil is a finite resource
          2. Demand is increasing
                  US demand (thank you very much SUVs) and consumer demand
                  China and India gearing up their industrial capacity
                          How many barrels of oil a day will it take feed a billion Chinese on motorcycles everyday
                          The punch bowl is getting low and the party is getting bigger.
          3. Good news. Higher oil prices will "fuel" alternative energy resource development
          4. Higher oil prices will  force consumers to get interested in
                           R38 ceilings
                           SIP
                           Insulated Concrete Forms
                          Radiant barriers
                          amonia chillers for homes
                          Solar hot water heaters     
                          Smaller cars
                                   etc. 
                 
       
       


      From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [ mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of chasmauch@...
      Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 8:13 PM
      To: hreg@yahoogroups.com; houstonpeakoil@...
      Subject: [hreg] Are oil company making windfall profits?

      I need an economist to explain to me why the oil companies are not making windfall profits.
       
      Say I have an oil well in Texas producing x barrels per day at $50 per barrel, the well is drilled and paid for, and I am paying all expenses and making a profit. Now the price of oil jumps to $75 per barrel. Is that a pure windfall profit? If words have meaning, it must be.
       
      Now say I am Exxon with x million barrels of oil production, the same numbers apply. My refining and marketing costs are constant, so the increased sales at the wellhead are again pure windfall profit.
       
      As an old man, I have a sense of deja vu here. I used to marvel at the hypocrisy of the oil men. Of course all professed to be great lovers of the "free market" and sanctimoniously cursed that damned OPEC for interfering with the market, while secretly hoping that they could make their latest embargo work and prop up the price.
       
      Of course there has never been a free market in oil, since production capacity has far exceeded market demand since the early days of the industry. If everyone produced flat out the price would go to about 5 cents per barrel, which it did from time to time until the Texas Railroad Commission was formed to control the price (without admitting it, of course - it was always said to be working for conservation, which was also true, but really only incidental). That worked for many years, controlling the price at about $3 per barrel by regulating production to equal demand. Then when Texas production declined OPEC sent their people over to study the system and took over the market control function.
       
      Then all the non-OPEC producers worldwide commenced to produce wide open (since they claimed not to believe in cartels) but secretly hoped that OPEC would restrain their production to keep the price up, in essence scabbing on OPEC which they have done for many years.
       
      It now appears that at long last we may really have a free market situation with supply and demand in rough equilibrium, such that small swings can make the market gyrate wildly. What we really need now is a worldwide equivalent of the Texas Railroad Commission to determine worldwide market demand, then allocate to each producer their proportionate part of the total market.
       
      Everyone needs energy, so that would be fair. Of course that will not happen since it violates the sacred market principles, so we will all fight each other over the dwindling supply, and the cut-throat competition will lead to wars and sundry other disasters which may destroy us all, but at least we will die defending our beliefs in markets. I hope I am wrong about this, but history and present trends do not make me optimistic.
       
      Charlie Mauch


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      Nan Hildreth  713-842-6643  713-443-3104 NanHildreth@...

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      It's easy to lighten and then eliminate your footprint.  Energy efficiency is good for us and good for the climate, says Houston Climate Protection Alliance www.HoustonClimateProtection.org   You can buy clean electricity from several companies www.HoustonConsumerChoice.com.  To test how clean they are http://www.powerscorecard.org/

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    • Randy Scott
      I seem to recall reading/hearing recently that royalty is part of the govt subsidy that some congress-people were talking about repealing. In effect, the oil
      Message 2 of 23 , Apr 28, 2006
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        I seem to recall reading/hearing recently that "royalty" is part of the govt subsidy that some
        congress-people were talking about repealing. In effect, the oil companies haven't been paying
        that royalty as part of incentives toward exploration. Now that some Reps want to repeal the
        subsidy, the oil companies are crying about their taxes being raised.



        --- Brian Harrison <bharrison@...> wrote:

        > I have no argument with charging a windfall profits tax as long as we
        > give the money back when the price of crude drops below $20. Now, before
        > you laugh I have a copy of the February 1999 Futures Magazine and the
        > cover reads "Code Blue For Crude, How low can prices go?" Well, as a
        > matter of fact, the price of crude on December 16, 1998 settled at $
        > 12.72.
        >
        >
        >
        > Another issue I would like to bring up is the United States Government
        > owns and leases ( http://www.mms.gov/) all of the Gulf of Mexico outer
        > continental shelf. They retain a 20% royalty interest in any offshore
        > production. So simple math in 1998 the US share of royalty was $12.72 x
        > .20 = $ $2.544 per barrel. Now the US share of the royalty is $70 x .20
        > = $14 per barrel or more than the entire price of crude back in 1998.
        > But you don't hear anything about that. So, let me be the first one to
        > call our elected representatives HYPOCRITES.
        >
        >
        >
        > I don't know about you but considering the amount of money the US
        > government is taking in from offshore royalties (must be record
        > royalties) it's surprising to me that we are running such a huge budget
        > deficit.
        >
        >
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
        > chasmauch@...
        > Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 9:13 PM
        > To: hreg@yahoogroups.com; houstonpeakoil@...
        > Subject: [hreg] Are oil company making windfall profits?
        >
        >
        >
        > I need an economist to explain to me why the oil companies are not
        > making windfall profits.
        >
        >
        >
        > Say I have an oil well in Texas producing x barrels per day at $50 per
        > barrel, the well is drilled and paid for, and I am paying all expenses
        > and making a profit. Now the price of oil jumps to $75 per barrel. Is
        > that a pure windfall profit? If words have meaning, it must be.
        >
        >
        >
        > Now say I am Exxon with x million barrels of oil production, the same
        > numbers apply. My refining and marketing costs are constant, so the
        > increased sales at the wellhead are again pure windfall profit.
        >
        >
        >
        > As an old man, I have a sense of deja vu here. I used to marvel at the
        > hypocrisy of the oil men. Of course all professed to be great lovers of
        > the "free market" and sanctimoniously cursed that damned OPEC for
        > interfering with the market, while secretly hoping that they could make
        > their latest embargo work and prop up the price.
        >
        >
        >
        > Of course there has never been a free market in oil, since production
        > capacity has far exceeded market demand since the early days of the
        > industry. If everyone produced flat out the price would go to about 5
        > cents per barrel, which it did from time to time until the Texas
        > Railroad Commission was formed to control the price (without admitting
        > it, of course - it was always said to be working for conservation, which
        > was also true, but really only incidental). That worked for many years,
        > controlling the price at about $3 per barrel by regulating production to
        > equal demand. Then when Texas production declined OPEC sent their people
        > over to study the system and took over the market control function.
        >
        >
        >
        > Then all the non-OPEC producers worldwide commenced to produce wide open
        > (since they claimed not to believe in cartels) but secretly hoped that
        > OPEC would restrain their production to keep the price up, in essence
        > scabbing on OPEC which they have done for many years.
        >
        >
        >
        > It now appears that at long last we may really have a free market
        > situation with supply and demand in rough equilibrium, such that small
        > swings can make the market gyrate wildly. What we really need now is a
        > worldwide equivalent of the Texas Railroad Commission to determine
        > worldwide market demand, then allocate to each producer their
        > proportionate part of the total market.
        >
        >
        >
        > Everyone needs energy, so that would be fair. Of course that will not
        > happen since it violates the sacred market principles, so we will all
        > fight each other over the dwindling supply, and the cut-throat
        > competition will lead to wars and sundry other disasters which may
        > destroy us all, but at least we will die defending our beliefs in
        > markets. I hope I am wrong about this, but history and present trends do
        > not make me optimistic.
        >
        >
        >
        > Charlie Mauch
        >
        >
        >
        > SPONSORED LINKS
        >
        > Houston texas attorney
        > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Houston+texas+attorney&w1=Houston+t
        > exas+attorney&w2=Houston+texas+bankruptcy+lawyer&w3=Houston+texas+web+si
        > te+design&w4=Houston+texas+mover&w5=Houston+texas+swimming+pool+builder&
        > w6=Houston+texas+apartment&c=6&s=195&.sig=ZQ6J2ntHMQhdoycqJw8q1Q>
        >
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        > +builder&w6=Houston+texas+apartment&c=6&s=195&.sig=8vdzayPqbYlk73-uy3d16
        > A>
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        > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Houston+texas+web+site+design&w1=Ho
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        > +web+site+design&w4=Houston+texas+mover&w5=Houston+texas+swimming+pool+b
        > uilder&w6=Houston+texas+apartment&c=6&s=195&.sig=3KfWx5BRKyvwVK44HIDcUg>
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        >
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        >
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        > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Houston+texas+swimming+pool+builder
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        > pool+builder&w6=Houston+texas+apartment&c=6&s=195&.sig=OY4lE9EBCvazfsCMq
        > eqzvQ>
        >
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        > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Houston+texas+apartment&w1=Houston+
        > texas+attorney&w2=Houston+texas+bankruptcy+lawyer&w3=Houston+texas+web+s
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      • Brian Harrison
        All OCS producing leases make royalty payments to the US government. ... From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Randy Scott
        Message 3 of 23 , Apr 28, 2006
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          All OCS producing leases make royalty payments to the US government.

          -----Original Message-----
          From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
          Randy Scott
          Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 1:27 PM
          To: hreg@yahoogroups.com; houstonpeakoil@...
          Subject: Re: [HoustonPeakOil] RE: [hreg] Are oil company making windfall
          profits?

          I seem to recall reading/hearing recently that "royalty" is part of the
          govt subsidy that some
          congress-people were talking about repealing. In effect, the oil
          companies haven't been paying
          that royalty as part of incentives toward exploration. Now that some
          Reps want to repeal the
          subsidy, the oil companies are crying about their taxes being raised.



          --- Brian Harrison <bharrison@...> wrote:

          > I have no argument with charging a windfall profits tax as long as we
          > give the money back when the price of crude drops below $20. Now,
          before
          > you laugh I have a copy of the February 1999 Futures Magazine and the
          > cover reads "Code Blue For Crude, How low can prices go?" Well, as a
          > matter of fact, the price of crude on December 16, 1998 settled at $
          > 12.72.
          >
          >
          >
          > Another issue I would like to bring up is the United States Government
          > owns and leases ( http://www.mms.gov/) all of the Gulf of Mexico
          outer
          > continental shelf. They retain a 20% royalty interest in any offshore
          > production. So simple math in 1998 the US share of royalty was $12.72
          x
          > .20 = $ $2.544 per barrel. Now the US share of the royalty is $70 x
          .20
          > = $14 per barrel or more than the entire price of crude back in 1998.
          > But you don't hear anything about that. So, let me be the first one
          to
          > call our elected representatives HYPOCRITES.
          >
          >
          >
          > I don't know about you but considering the amount of money the US
          > government is taking in from offshore royalties (must be record
          > royalties) it's surprising to me that we are running such a huge
          budget
          > deficit.
          >
          >
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
          > chasmauch@...
          > Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 9:13 PM
          > To: hreg@yahoogroups.com; houstonpeakoil@...
          > Subject: [hreg] Are oil company making windfall profits?
          >
          >
          >
          > I need an economist to explain to me why the oil companies are not
          > making windfall profits.
          >
          >
          >
          > Say I have an oil well in Texas producing x barrels per day at $50 per
          > barrel, the well is drilled and paid for, and I am paying all expenses
          > and making a profit. Now the price of oil jumps to $75 per barrel. Is
          > that a pure windfall profit? If words have meaning, it must be.
          >
          >
          >
          > Now say I am Exxon with x million barrels of oil production, the same
          > numbers apply. My refining and marketing costs are constant, so the
          > increased sales at the wellhead are again pure windfall profit.
          >
          >
          >
          > As an old man, I have a sense of deja vu here. I used to marvel at the
          > hypocrisy of the oil men. Of course all professed to be great lovers
          of
          > the "free market" and sanctimoniously cursed that damned OPEC for
          > interfering with the market, while secretly hoping that they could
          make
          > their latest embargo work and prop up the price.
          >
          >
          >
          > Of course there has never been a free market in oil, since production
          > capacity has far exceeded market demand since the early days of the
          > industry. If everyone produced flat out the price would go to about 5
          > cents per barrel, which it did from time to time until the Texas
          > Railroad Commission was formed to control the price (without admitting
          > it, of course - it was always said to be working for conservation,
          which
          > was also true, but really only incidental). That worked for many
          years,
          > controlling the price at about $3 per barrel by regulating production
          to
          > equal demand. Then when Texas production declined OPEC sent their
          people
          > over to study the system and took over the market control function.
          >
          >
          >
          > Then all the non-OPEC producers worldwide commenced to produce wide
          open
          > (since they claimed not to believe in cartels) but secretly hoped that
          > OPEC would restrain their production to keep the price up, in essence
          > scabbing on OPEC which they have done for many years.
          >
          >
          >
          > It now appears that at long last we may really have a free market
          > situation with supply and demand in rough equilibrium, such that small
          > swings can make the market gyrate wildly. What we really need now is a
          > worldwide equivalent of the Texas Railroad Commission to determine
          > worldwide market demand, then allocate to each producer their
          > proportionate part of the total market.
          >
          >
          >
          > Everyone needs energy, so that would be fair. Of course that will not
          > happen since it violates the sacred market principles, so we will all
          > fight each other over the dwindling supply, and the cut-throat
          > competition will lead to wars and sundry other disasters which may
          > destroy us all, but at least we will die defending our beliefs in
          > markets. I hope I am wrong about this, but history and present trends
          do
          > not make me optimistic.
          >
          >
          >
          > Charlie Mauch
          >
          >
          >
          > SPONSORED LINKS
          >
          > Houston texas attorney
          >
          <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Houston+texas+attorney&w1=Houston+t
          >
          exas+attorney&w2=Houston+texas+bankruptcy+lawyer&w3=Houston+texas+web+si
          >
          te+design&w4=Houston+texas+mover&w5=Houston+texas+swimming+pool+builder&
          > w6=Houston+texas+apartment&c=6&s=195&.sig=ZQ6J2ntHMQhdoycqJw8q1Q>
          >
          > Houston texas bankruptcy lawyer
          >
          <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Houston+texas+bankruptcy+lawyer&w1=
          >
          Houston+texas+attorney&w2=Houston+texas+bankruptcy+lawyer&w3=Houston+tex
          >
          as+web+site+design&w4=Houston+texas+mover&w5=Houston+texas+swimming+pool
          >
          +builder&w6=Houston+texas+apartment&c=6&s=195&.sig=8vdzayPqbYlk73-uy3d16
          > A>
          >
          > Houston texas web site design
          >
          <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Houston+texas+web+site+design&w1=Ho
          >
          uston+texas+attorney&w2=Houston+texas+bankruptcy+lawyer&w3=Houston+texas
          >
          +web+site+design&w4=Houston+texas+mover&w5=Houston+texas+swimming+pool+b
          >
          uilder&w6=Houston+texas+apartment&c=6&s=195&.sig=3KfWx5BRKyvwVK44HIDcUg>
          >
          >
          > Houston texas mover
          >
          <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Houston+texas+mover&w1=Houston+texa
          >
          s+attorney&w2=Houston+texas+bankruptcy+lawyer&w3=Houston+texas+web+site+
          >
          design&w4=Houston+texas+mover&w5=Houston+texas+swimming+pool+builder&w6=
          > Houston+texas+apartment&c=6&s=195&.sig=2Gl3psTnv8Pw4-Ti_kvNTg>
          >
          > Houston texas swimming pool builder
          >
          <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Houston+texas+swimming+pool+builder
          >
          &w1=Houston+texas+attorney&w2=Houston+texas+bankruptcy+lawyer&w3=Houston
          >
          +texas+web+site+design&w4=Houston+texas+mover&w5=Houston+texas+swimming+
          >
          pool+builder&w6=Houston+texas+apartment&c=6&s=195&.sig=OY4lE9EBCvazfsCMq
          > eqzvQ>
          >
          > Houston texas apartment
          >
          <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Houston+texas+apartment&w1=Houston+
          >
          texas+attorney&w2=Houston+texas+bankruptcy+lawyer&w3=Houston+texas+web+s
          >
          ite+design&w4=Houston+texas+mover&w5=Houston+texas+swimming+pool+builder
          > &w6=Houston+texas+apartment&c=6&s=195&.sig=gjoMYhpB_A5-0SB8rS64bQ>
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        • Jim & Janet
          I seem to recall that, during the 70s oil embargo, it was reported that the Saud Family oil cartel could produce crude oil at fifty cents per barrel if
          Message 4 of 23 , Apr 28, 2006
          • 0 Attachment
            I seem to recall that, during the '70s oil embargo, it was reported that the Saud Family oil cartel could produce crude oil at fifty cents per barrel if pumping at near full capacity.
            Now that was >30 years ago but I really believe that your bought and long-ago paid for oil infrastructure can produce a barrel of oil for a lot less than $50/barrel today in Texas. That's price at the wellhead.
            Valero and other refinerys are making record $billion profits so the strategy must apply to that industry as well.
            And Congress wants to investigate the retail outlets for price gouging?
            Jim Duncan
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 8:13 PM
            Subject: [hreg] Are oil company making windfall profits?

            I need an economist to explain to me why the oil companies are not making windfall profits.
             
            Say I have an oil well in Texas producing x barrels per day at $50 per barrel, the well is drilled and paid for, and I am paying all expenses and making a profit.
             
            SNIP
          • Tommy Yonker
            Just couldn’t resist: so the simple and obvious solution to the high oil prices is to drill our own wells and make the obscene profits ourselves and cut out
            Message 5 of 23 , Apr 28, 2006
            • 0 Attachment

              Just couldn’t resist: so the simple and obvious solution to the high oil prices is to drill our own  wells and make the obscene profits ourselves and cut out the big bad oil companies.   Maybe we’ll just build a refinery and buy $70 oil and sell the gasoline we make for fifty cents a gallon. Don’t forget the taxes per gallon.

              Sheesh, this is Houston Texas, get a grip on reality folks. Remember when computers were three thousand and gas was 95 cents? Let’s just ask Hugo Chavez to come on over and give us lessons.

               

               

               

               

              -----Original Message-----
              From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim & Janet
              Sent:
              Friday, April 28, 2006 2:29 PM
              To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [hreg] Are oil company making windfall profits?

               

              I seem to recall that, during the '70s oil embargo, it was reported that the Saud Family oil cartel could produce crude oil at fifty cents per barrel if pumping at near full capacity.

              Now that was >30 years ago but I really believe that your bought and long-ago paid for oil infrastructure can produce a barrel of oil for a lot less than $50/barrel today in Texas. That's price at the wellhead.

              Valero and other refinerys are making record $billion profits so the strategy must apply to that industry as well.

              And Congress wants to investigate the retail outlets for price gouging?

              Jim Duncan

              ----- Original Message -----

              Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 8:13 PM

              Subject: [hreg] Are oil company making windfall profits?

               

              I need an economist to explain to me why the oil companies are not making windfall profits.

               

              Say I have an oil well in Texas producing x barrels per day at $50 per barrel, the well is drilled and paid for, and I am paying all expenses and making a profit.

               

              SNIP

               


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            • William & Cynthia Stange
              You realize of course that state and federal taxes on just one gallon of fuel is about .75 cents. Gee, I wonder what they have been doing with all our cash, oh
              Message 6 of 23 , Apr 28, 2006
              • 0 Attachment
                You realize of course that state and federal taxes on just one gallon of fuel is about .75 cents. Gee, I wonder what they have been doing with all our cash, oh yeah now I remember they gave it to the oil companies as tax breaks.

                Tommy Yonker <tyonker@...> wrote:
                Just couldn’t resist: so the simple and obvious solution to the high oil prices is to drill our own  wells and make the obscene profits ourselves and cut out the big bad oil companies.   Maybe we’ll just build a refinery and buy $70 oil and sell the gasoline we make for fifty cents a gallon. Don’t forget the taxes per gallon.
                Sheesh, this is Houston Texas, get a grip on reality folks. Remember when computers were three thousand and gas was 95 cents? Let’s just ask Hugo Chavez to come on over and give us lessons.
                 
                 
                 
                 
                -----Original Message-----
                From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim & Janet
                Sent:
                Friday, April 28, 2006 2:29 PM
                To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [hreg] Are oil company making windfall profits?
                 
                I seem to recall that, during the '70s oil embargo, it was reported that the Saud Family oil cartel could produce crude oil at fifty cents per barrel if pumping at near full capacity.
                Now that was >30 years ago but I really believe that your bought and long-ago paid for oil infrastructure can produce a barrel of oil for a lot less than $50/barrel today in Texas. That's price at the wellhead.
                Valero and other refinerys are making record $billion profits so the strategy must apply to that industry as well.
                And Congress wants to investigate the retail outlets for price gouging?
                Jim Duncan
                ----- Original Message -----
                Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 8:13 PM
                Subject: [hreg] Are oil company making windfall profits?
                 
                I need an economist to explain to me why the oil companies are not making windfall profits.
                 
                Say I have an oil well in Texas producing x barrels per day at $50 per barrel, the well is drilled and paid for, and I am paying all expenses and making a profit.
                 
                SNIP
                 

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              • refuge@wt.net
                I think the real reason that congress is investigating the oil companies is that while the profits have been going up, the amount the members of congress have
                Message 7 of 23 , Apr 28, 2006
                • 0 Attachment
                  I think the real reason that congress is investigating the oil companies is
                  that while the profits have been going up, the amount the members of congress
                  have been receiving under the table has stayed the same... I think this has
                  greatly upset the members of congress who seem to be nothing more than paid
                  spokespeople for Corporate America... it's sad how such a great country has
                  gone from "of the people, for the people, by the people" to "of the
                  corporation, for the corporation and by the corporation who sponsors their
                  elected officials" it's a shame that for such small investments to finance
                  politicians' election and re-election campaigns the corporations get real nice
                  returns...
                  the only way to end this madness is with strict term limits for all
                  politicians so they can care more about this country and not just about
                  getting re-elected or to elect me as benevolant dictator... I'll bring down
                  gas prices to $.50 per gallon if elected to be your benevolant dictator...
                  later

                  uoting Tommy Yonker <tyonker@...>:

                  > Just couldn’t resist: so the simple and obvious solution to the high oil
                  > prices is to drill our own wells and make the obscene profits ourselves
                  > and cut out the big bad oil companies. Maybe we’ll just build a
                  > refinery and buy $70 oil and sell the gasoline we make for fifty cents a
                  > gallon. Don’t forget the taxes per gallon.
                  >
                  > Sheesh, this is Houston Texas, get a grip on reality folks. Remember
                  > when computers were three thousand and gas was 95 cents? Let’s just ask
                  > Hugo Chavez to come on over and give us lessons.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                  > Jim & Janet
                  > Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 2:29 PM
                  > To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: Re: [hreg] Are oil company making windfall profits?
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > I seem to recall that, during the '70s oil embargo, it was reported that
                  > the Saud Family oil cartel could produce crude oil at fifty cents per
                  > barrel if pumping at near full capacity.
                  >
                  > Now that was >30 years ago but I really believe that your bought and
                  > long-ago paid for oil infrastructure can produce a barrel of oil for a
                  > lot less than $50/barrel today in Texas. That's price at the wellhead.
                  >
                  > Valero and other refinerys are making record $billion profits so the
                  > strategy must apply to that industry as well.
                  >
                  > And Congress wants to investigate the retail outlets for price gouging?
                  >
                  > Jim Duncan
                  >
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  >
                  > From: HYPERLINK "mailto:chasmauch@..."chasmauch@...
                  >
                  > To: HYPERLINK "mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com"hreg@yahoogroups.com ;
                  > HYPERLINK
                  > "mailto:houstonpeakoil@..."houstonpeakoil@...
                  >
                  > Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 8:13 PM
                  >
                  > Subject: [hreg] Are oil company making windfall profits?
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > I need an economist to explain to me why the oil companies are not
                  > making windfall profits.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Say I have an oil well in Texas producing x barrels per day at $50 per
                  > barrel, the well is drilled and paid for, and I am paying all expenses
                  > and making a profit.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > SNIP
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > _____
                  >
                  > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > * Visit your group "HYPERLINK
                  > "http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hreg"hreg" on the web.
                  >
                  >
                  > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  > HYPERLINK
                  > "mailto:hreg-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe"hreg-unsubs
                  > cribe@yahoogroups.com
                  >
                  >
                  > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the HYPERLINK
                  > "http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/"Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > _____
                  >
                  >
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                • Tommy Yonker
                  Check your figures, over 38 cents per gallon state and fed tax, If you don’t even have the amounts correct how can you be considered serious in the
                  Message 8 of 23 , Apr 28, 2006
                  • 0 Attachment

                    Check your figures, over 38 cents per gallon state and fed tax,  If you don’t even have the amounts correct how can you be considered serious in the argument?

                    I don’t think the oil companies deserve a tax break, nor do I think they deserve extra taxes. Hell, every thing that makes money is more than adequately taxed.

                    Can we start thinking in terms of living in spite of puniitve taxation? 

                     

                    My point is trying to blame our problems on one industry is ludicrous.  It takes a village right?

                     

                    We overcame the Opec Arab countries before and we can do it again.  We just need to be reminded every 25 years or so.

                     

                     

                     

                     

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of William & Cynthia Stange
                    Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 6:31 PM
                    To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: RE: [hreg] Are oil company making windfall profits?

                     

                    You realize of course that state and federal taxes on just one gallon of fuel is about .75 cents. Gee, I wonder what they have been doing with all our cash, oh yeah now I remember they gave it to the oil companies as tax breaks.

                    Tommy Yonker <tyonker@...> wrote:

                    Just couldn’t resist: so the simple and obvious solution to the high oil prices is to drill our own  wells and make the obscene profits ourselves and cut out the big bad oil companies.   Maybe we’ll just build a refinery and buy $70 oil and sell the gasoline we make for fifty cents a gallon. Don’t forget the taxes per gallon.

                    Sheesh, this is Houston Texas, get a grip on reality folks. Remember when computers were three thousand and gas was 95 cents? Let’s just ask Hugo Chavez to come on over and give us lessons.

                     

                     

                     

                     

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim & Janet
                    Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 2:29 PM
                    To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [hreg] Are oil company making windfall profits?

                     

                    I seem to recall that, during the '70s oil embargo, it was reported that the Saud Family oil cartel could produce crude oil at fifty cents per barrel if pumping at near full capacity.

                    Now that was >30 years ago but I really believe that your bought and long-ago paid for oil infrastructure can produce a barrel of oil for a lot less than $50/barrel today in Texas. That's price at the wellhead.

                    Valero and other refinerys are making record $billion profits so the strategy must apply to that industry as well.

                    And Congress wants to investigate the retail outlets for price gouging?

                    Jim Duncan

                    ----- Original Message -----

                    Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 8:13 PM

                    Subject: [hreg] Are oil company making windfall profits?

                     

                    I need an economist to explain to me why the oil companies are not making windfall profits.

                     

                    Say I have an oil well in Texas producing x barrels per day at $50 per barrel, the well is drilled and paid for, and I am paying all expenses and making a profit.

                     

                    SNIP

                     

                     

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                  • Tommy Yonker
                    I stand by my statement, get Hugo Chavez to come give lessons to the group, that way we’ll all know what is “right and fair” Without having to wonder.
                    Message 9 of 23 , Apr 28, 2006
                    • 0 Attachment

                      I stand by my statement, get Hugo Chavez  to come give lessons to the group, that way we’ll all know what is “right and fair”

                      Without having to wonder.

                       

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of refuge@...
                      Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 11:16 PM
                      To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: RE: [hreg] Are oil company making windfall profits?

                       

                      I think the real reason that congress is investigating the oil companies is
                      that while the profits have been going up, the amount the members of congress
                      have been receiving under the table has stayed the same... I think this has
                      greatly upset the members of congress who seem to be nothing more than paid
                      spokespeople for Corporate America... it's sad how such a great country has
                      gone from "of the people, for the people, by the people" to "of the
                      corporation, for the corporation and by the corporation who sponsors their
                      elected officials" it's a shame that for such small investments to finance
                      politicians' election and re-election campaigns the corporations get real nice
                      returns...
                           the only way to end this madness is with strict term limits for all
                      politicians so they can care more about this country and not just about
                      getting re-elected or to elect me as benevolant dictator... I'll bring down
                      gas prices to $.50 per gallon if elected to be your benevolant dictator...
                      later

                      uoting Tommy Yonker <tyonker@...>:

                      > Just couldn’t resist: so the simple and obvious solution to the high
                      oil
                      > prices is to drill our own  wells and make the obscene profits
                      ourselves
                      > and cut out the big bad oil companies.   Maybe we’ll just
                      build a
                      > refinery and buy $70 oil and sell the gasoline we make for fifty cents a
                      > gallon. Don’t forget the taxes per gallon.
                      >
                      > Sheesh, this is Houston Texas, get a grip on reality folks. Remember
                      > when computers were three thousand and gas was 95 cents? Let’s just
                      ask
                      > Hugo Chavez to come on over and give us lessons.
                      >

                      >

                      >

                      >

                      >
                      > -----Original Message-----
                      > From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                      > Jim & Janet
                      > Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 2:29 PM
                      > To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                      > Subject: Re: [hreg] Are oil company making windfall profits?
                      >

                      >
                      > I seem to recall that, during the '70s oil embargo, it was reported that
                      > the Saud Family oil cartel could produce crude oil at fifty cents per
                      > barrel if pumping at near full capacity.
                      >
                      > Now that was >30 years ago but I really believe that your bought and
                      > long-ago paid for oil infrastructure can produce a barrel of oil for a
                      > lot less than $50/barrel today in Texas. That's price at the wellhead.
                      >
                      > Valero and other refinerys are making record $billion profits so the
                      > strategy must apply to that industry as well.
                      >
                      > And Congress wants to investigate the retail outlets for price gouging?
                      >
                      > Jim Duncan
                      >
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      >
                      > From: HYPERLINK "mailto:chasmauch@..."chasmauch@...
                      >
                      > To: HYPERLINK "mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com"hreg@yahoogroups.com
                      ;
                      > HYPERLINK
                      >
                      "mailto:houstonpeakoil@..."houstonpeakoil@...
                      >
                      > Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 8:13 PM
                      >
                      > Subject: [hreg] Are oil company making windfall profits?
                      >

                      >
                      > I need an economist to explain to me why the oil companies are not
                      > making windfall profits.
                      >

                      >
                      > Say I have an oil well in Texas producing x barrels per day at $50 per
                      > barrel, the well is drilled and paid for, and I am paying all expenses
                      > and making a profit.
                      >

                      >
                      > SNIP
                      >

                      >
                      >    _____ 
                      >
                      > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                      >

                      >
                      > *          Visit your group
                      "HYPERLINK
                      > "http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hreg"hreg"
                      on the web.
                      >  
                      >
                      > *          To unsubscribe
                      from this group, send an email to:
                      >  HYPERLINK
                      >
                      "mailto:hreg-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe"hreg-unsubs
                      > cribe@yahoogroups.com
                      >  
                      >
                      > *          Your use of Yahoo!
                      Groups is subject to the HYPERLINK
                      > "http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/"Yahoo!
                      Terms of Service.
                      >

                      >
                      >    _____ 
                      >
                      >
                      > --
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                      > Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.5.1/326 - Release Date: 4/27/2006
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                    • Tommy Yonker
                      Google taxes per gallon of gasoline, please ... From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tommy Yonker Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006
                      Message 10 of 23 , Apr 28, 2006
                      • 0 Attachment

                        Google taxes per gallon of gasoline, please

                         

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tommy Yonker
                        Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 11:19 PM
                        To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: RE: [hreg] Are oil company making windfall profits?

                         

                        Check your figures, over 38 cents per gallon state and fed tax,  If you don’t even have the amounts correct how can you be considered serious in the argument?

                        I don’t think the oil companies deserve a tax break, nor do I think they deserve extra taxes. Hell, every thing that makes money is more than adequately taxed.

                        Can we start thinking in terms of living in spite of puniitve taxation? 

                         

                        My point is trying to blame our problems on one industry is ludicrous.  It takes a village right?

                         

                        We overcame the Opec Arab countries before and we can do it again.  We just need to be reminded every 25 years or so.

                         

                         

                         

                         

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of William & Cynthia Stange
                        Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 6:31 PM
                        To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: RE: [hreg] Are oil company making windfall profits?

                         

                        You realize of course that state and federal taxes on just one gallon of fuel is about .75 cents. Gee, I wonder what they have been doing with all our cash, oh yeah now I remember they gave it to the oil companies as tax breaks.

                        Tommy Yonker <tyonker@...> wrote:

                        Just couldn’t resist: so the simple and obvious solution to the high oil prices is to drill our own  wells and make the obscene profits ourselves and cut out the big bad oil companies.   Maybe we’ll just build a refinery and buy $70 oil and sell the gasoline we make for fifty cents a gallon. Don’t forget the taxes per gallon.

                        Sheesh, this is Houston Texas, get a grip on reality folks. Remember when computers were three thousand and gas was 95 cents? Let’s just ask Hugo Chavez to come on over and give us lessons.

                         

                         

                         

                         

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim & Janet
                        Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 2:29 PM
                        To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [hreg] Are oil company making windfall profits?

                         

                        I seem to recall that, during the '70s oil embargo, it was reported that the Saud Family oil cartel could produce crude oil at fifty cents per barrel if pumping at near full capacity.

                        Now that was >30 years ago but I really believe that your bought and long-ago paid for oil infrastructure can produce a barrel of oil for a lot less than $50/barrel today in Texas. That's price at the wellhead.

                        Valero and other refinerys are making record $billion profits so the strategy must apply to that industry as well.

                        And Congress wants to investigate the retail outlets for price gouging?

                        Jim Duncan

                        ----- Original Message -----

                        Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 8:13 PM

                        Subject: [hreg] Are oil company making windfall profits?

                         

                        I need an economist to explain to me why the oil companies are not making windfall profits.

                         

                        Say I have an oil well in Texas producing x barrels per day at $50 per barrel, the well is drilled and paid for, and I am paying all expenses and making a profit.

                         

                        SNIP

                         

                         

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                      • Jim Hofweber
                        Speaking of the Chronicle and wind falls... A couple of weeks ago the AWEA sponsored a Wind Project Finance & Investment Workshop in Houston. Besides
                        Message 11 of 23 , Apr 28, 2006
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Speaking of the Chronicle and "wind"falls...
                           
                          A couple of weeks ago the AWEA sponsored a Wind Project Finance & Investment Workshop in Houston. Besides featuring speakers from the FERC, BP Alternative Energy, Shell Wind Energy and being attended by registrants from a host of organizations with a stake in the wind industry, the slate included executives from local players such as Horizon Wind Energy, Superior Renewable Energy and the Wind Coalition. So how much dust did this affair stir up?
                           
                          My wife told me she heard an item on news radio KTRH the first morning of the conference, associating wind power with a solution to the then very recent statewide rolling brownouts.
                           
                          There may have been something on the local telecasts, but if so I'm unaware of it. As far as the Chronicle is concerned, nothing was reported at all. A search of www.chron.com will verify it.
                           
                          This was a real PR opportunity for renewables and HREG. Let's not let chances like this pass by again.
                           
                          To be fair, in all likelihood the real problem is probably that this thing appeared on too short of notice. Still, someone from AWEA, TREIA, the Wind Coalition, one or more of the companies invested, or the Chronicle should have been other than asleep at the switch. So should we.
                           
                          We may not be primarily an advocacy group, but we are in fact an advocacy group. It may take awhile for us to sort out exactly how we could administer handling such PR. I suggest we begin by addressing the subject at Sunday's meeting. All it takes is messages--like the ones we take the time to post here. It doesn't have to be one person's burden. The question is one of focus and team effort.
                           
                           
                           
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 11:55 AM
                          Subject: RE: [hreg] Are oil company making windfall profits?

                          The Chron said, in an editorial maybe a month ago, that windfall profits enable oil companies to make the huge investment to develop new sources of energy.  And so the community should be nice to oil companies.    IEA says it will take trillions of new investment to keep us supplied with energy.  Shale oil for example, requires new tools, skills, etc.  But Exxon, unlike BP & Shell, has not yet invested in clean energy, like wind and solar.

                          I would someone to write an op-ed or letter to the editor of the Chronicle discussing the morality of Exxon's refusal to invest in clean energy.  I'd write it but I just turned in an op-ed two days ago about global warming, how I feel about it, local impacts, and what you can do about it.  

                          Letters are very well read by all Congressional staff and other policy fans.  Yes, maybe you've tried before and been ignored, but the Chron can only print about 10% of the letters it gets.  And at least you helped educate the Chron. 

                          The Chron has printed more than half of my letters.    I work hard to keep them short (100-300 words, 400 at max), well written, provocative but respectful.   (But I've never turned in an op-ed before.)  Put your name, address and home phone at the bottom and email your letter to Viewpoints@....    They may sit on it a week before printing it.  They try to print only one letter from each person every 3 months.  

                          Nan Hildreth

                          At 10:41 AM 4/28/2006, Shafer, Mark B wrote:
                          Windfall profits are a distraction.  Having been in the oil patch, twice, I have witnessed  the industry behavior - sometimes it's good, very good, and then it's very bad.  The oil patch cratered in the early 80.  News paper headlines read "1960 (the street) corridor of forclosure".  Geologists got jobs as claims adjusters.  Brown and root engineers started selling real estate. 
                           
                          I think we need to focus on key points:
                              1. Oil is a finite resource
                              2. Demand is increasing
                                      US demand (thank you very much SUVs) and consumer demand
                                      China and India gearing up their industrial capacity
                                              How many barrels of oil a day will it take feed a billion Chinese on motorcycles everyday
                                              The punch bowl is getting low and the party is getting bigger.
                              3. Good news. Higher oil prices will "fuel" alternative energy resource development
                              4. Higher oil prices will  force consumers to get interested in
                                               R38 ceilings
                                               SIP
                                               Insulated Concrete Forms
                                              Radiant barriers
                                              amonia chillers for homes
                                              Solar hot water heaters     
                                              Smaller cars
                                                       etc. 
                                     
                           
                           


                          From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [ mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of chasmauch@...
                          Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 8:13 PM
                          To: hreg@yahoogroups.com; houstonpeakoil@...
                          Subject: [hreg] Are oil company making windfall profits?

                          I need an economist to explain to me why the oil companies are not making windfall profits.
                           
                          Say I have an oil well in Texas producing x barrels per day at $50 per barrel, the well is drilled and paid for, and I am paying all expenses and making a profit. Now the price of oil jumps to $75 per barrel. Is that a pure windfall profit? If words have meaning, it must be.
                           
                          Now say I am Exxon with x million barrels of oil production, the same numbers apply. My refining and marketing costs are constant, so the increased sales at the wellhead are again pure windfall profit.
                           
                          As an old man, I have a sense of deja vu here. I used to marvel at the hypocrisy of the oil men. Of course all professed to be great lovers of the "free market" and sanctimoniously cursed that damned OPEC for interfering with the market, while secretly hoping that they could make their latest embargo work and prop up the price.
                           
                          Of course there has never been a free market in oil, since production capacity has far exceeded market demand since the early days of the industry. If everyone produced flat out the price would go to about 5 cents per barrel, which it did from time to time until the Texas Railroad Commission was formed to control the price (without admitting it, of course - it was always said to be working for conservation, which was also true, but really only incidental). That worked for many years, controlling the price at about $3 per barrel by regulating production to equal demand. Then when Texas production declined OPEC sent their people over to study the system and took over the market control function.
                           
                          Then all the non-OPEC producers worldwide commenced to produce wide open (since they claimed not to believe in cartels) but secretly hoped that OPEC would restrain their production to keep the price up, in essence scabbing on OPEC which they have done for many years.
                           
                          It now appears that at long last we may really have a free market situation with supply and demand in rough equilibrium, such that small swings can make the market gyrate wildly. What we really need now is a worldwide equivalent of the Texas Railroad Commission to determine worldwide market demand, then allocate to each producer their proportionate part of the total market.
                           
                          Everyone needs energy, so that would be fair. Of course that will not happen since it violates the sacred market principles, so we will all fight each other over the dwindling supply, and the cut-throat competition will lead to wars and sundry other disasters which may destroy us all, but at least we will die defending our beliefs in markets. I hope I am wrong about this, but history and present trends do not make me optimistic.
                           
                          Charlie Mauch


                          YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS




                          Nan Hildreth  713-842-6643  713-443-3104 NanHildreth@...

                          Have you tested your impact on the climate, your carbon footprint?   www.bp.com/carbonfootprint 

                          It's easy to lighten and then eliminate your footprint.  Energy efficiency is good for us and good for the climate, says Houston Climate Protection Alliance www.HoustonClimateProtection.org   You can buy clean electricity from several companies www.HoustonConsumerChoice.com.  To test how clean they are http://www.powerscorecard.org/

                          Eliminate your footprint by helping others save energy or buying renewable energy credits.  Each compact fluorescent light bulb I give away offsets a half ton of carbon emissions.   You can also support clean energy by buying renewable energy credits at the rate of $4 or $5 per 1,000 miles of driving from online retailers like www.NativeEnergy.org  www.Carbonfund.org,  www.b-e-f.org, or coming soon, Texas Interfaith Power and Light.

                          Have you done your fair share of climate protection?

                        • Nan Hildreth
                          Bravo Jim. I think of it as a conversation that grows until it speaks up in the community through that megaphone, the press. It seems press work is simple.
                          Message 12 of 23 , Apr 29, 2006
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Bravo Jim.  

                            I think of it as a conversation that grows until it speaks up in the community through that megaphone, the press.   

                            It seems press work is simple.  Write the story for them.   Email it to some or all of the papers in Houston Area Media Directory ($30 from 713-844-3600).   After you get on the reporters' radar, when they need a statement on renewables, they will call HREG.   For a lesson in how, ask Peter Tyler to give one to HREG's leadership group. 

                            The Lifestyle Section of the Houston Chronicle might enjoy a story titled  "We're not worried about rolling blackouts, rising prices, or the electricity going down in a hurricane."  featuring John Gardner and the other HREGers with home energy systems with a picture of John pointing to his wind turbine.

                            Nan Hildreth

                            At 01:20 AM 4/29/2006, Jim Hofweber wrote:
                            Speaking of the Chronicle and "wind"falls...
                             
                            A couple of weeks ago the AWEA sponsored a Wind Project Finance & Investment Workshop in Houston. Besides featuring speakers from the FERC, BP Alternative Energy, Shell Wind Energy and being attended by registrants from a host of organizations with a stake in the wind industry, the slate included executives from local players such as Horizon Wind Energy, Superior Renewable Energy and the Wind Coalition. So how much dust did this affair stir up?
                             
                            My wife told me she heard an item on news radio KTRH the first morning of the conference, associating wind power with a solution to the then very recent statewide rolling brownouts.
                             
                            There may have been something on the local telecasts, but if so I'm unaware of it. As far as the Chronicle is concerned, nothing was reported at all. A search of www.chron.com will verify it.
                             
                            This was a real PR opportunity for renewables and HREG. Let's not let chances like this pass by again.
                             
                            To be fair, in all likelihood the real problem is probably that this thing appeared on too short of notice. Still, someone from AWEA, TREIA, the Wind Coalition, one or more of the companies invested, or the Chronicle should have been other than asleep at the switch. So should we.
                             
                            We may not be primarily an advocacy group, but we are in fact an advocacy group. It may take awhile for us to sort out exactly how we could administer handling such PR. I suggest we begin by addressing the subject at Sunday's meeting. All it takes is messages--like the ones we take the time to post here. It doesn't have to be one person's burden. The question is one of focus and team effort.
                             
                             
                             
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: Nan Hildreth
                            To: hreg@yahoogroups.com ; hreg@yahoogroups.com ; houstonpeakoil@...
                            Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 11:55 AM
                            Subject: RE: [hreg] Are oil company making windfall profits?

                            The Chron said, in an editorial maybe a month ago, that windfall profits enable oil companies to make the huge investment to develop new sources of energy.  And so the community should be nice to oil companies.    IEA says it will take trillions of new investment to keep us supplied with energy.  Shale oil for example, requires new tools, skills, etc.  But Exxon, unlike BP & Shell, has not yet invested in clean energy, like wind and solar.

                            I would someone to write an op-ed or letter to the editor of the Chronicle discussing the morality of Exxon's refusal to invest in clean energy.  I'd write it but I just turned in an op-ed two days ago about global warming, how I feel about it, local impacts, and what you can do about it.  

                            Letters are very well read by all Congressional staff and other policy fans.  Yes, maybe you've tried before and been ignored, but the Chron can only print about 10% of the letters it gets.  And at least you helped educate the Chron. 

                            The Chron has printed more than half of my letters.    I work hard to keep them short (100-300 words, 400 at max), well written, provocative but respectful.   (But I've never turned in an op-ed before.)  Put your name, address and home phone at the bottom and email your letter to Viewpoints@....    They may sit on it a week before printing it.  They try to print only one letter from each person every 3 months.  

                            Nan Hildreth

                            At 10:41 AM 4/28/2006, Shafer, Mark B wrote:
                            Windfall profits are a distraction.  Having been in the oil patch, twice, I have witnessed  the industry behavior - sometimes it's good, very good, and then it's very bad.  The oil patch cratered in the early 80.  News paper headlines read "1960 (the street) corridor of forclosure".  Geologists got jobs as claims adjusters.  Brown and root engineers started selling real estate. 
                             
                            I think we need to focus on key points:
                                1. Oil is a finite resource
                                2. Demand is increasing
                                        US demand (thank you very much SUVs) and consumer demand
                                        China and India gearing up their industrial capacity
                                                How many barrels of oil a day will it take feed a billion Chinese on motorcycles everyday
                                                The punch bowl is getting low and the party is getting bigger.
                                3. Good news. Higher oil prices will "fuel" alternative energy resource development
                                4. Higher oil prices will  force consumers to get interested in
                                                 R38 ceilings
                                                 SIP
                                                 Insulated Concrete Forms
                                                Radiant barriers
                                                amonia chillers for homes
                                                Solar hot water heaters     
                                                Smaller cars
                                                         etc. 
                                       
                             
                             


                            From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [ mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of chasmauch@...
                            Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 8:13 PM
                            To: hreg@yahoogroups.com; houstonpeakoil@...
                            Subject: [hreg] Are oil company making windfall profits?

                            I need an economist to explain to me why the oil companies are not making windfall profits.
                             
                            Say I have an oil well in Texas producing x barrels per day at $50 per barrel, the well is drilled and paid for, and I am paying all expenses and making a profit. Now the price of oil jumps to $75 per barrel. Is that a pure windfall profit? If words have meaning, it must be.
                             
                            Now say I am Exxon with x million barrels of oil production, the same numbers apply. My refining and marketing costs are constant, so the increased sales at the wellhead are again pure windfall profit.
                             
                            As an old man, I have a sense of deja vu here. I used to marvel at the hypocrisy of the oil men. Of course all professed to be great lovers of the "free market" and sanctimoniously cursed that damned OPEC for interfering with the market, while secretly hoping that they could make their latest embargo work and prop up the price.
                             
                            Of course there has never been a free market in oil, since production capacity has far exceeded market demand since the early days of the industry. If everyone produced flat out the price would go to about 5 cents per barrel, which it did from time to time until the Texas Railroad Commission was formed to control the price (without admitting it, of course - it was always said to be working for conservation, which was also true, but really only incidental). That worked for many years, controlling the price at about $3 per barrel by regulating production to equal demand. Then when Texas production declined OPEC sent their people over to study the system and took over the market control function.
                             
                            Then all the non-OPEC producers worldwide commenced to produce wide open (since they claimed not to believe in cartels) but secretly hoped that OPEC would restrain their production to keep the price up, in essence scabbing on OPEC which they have done for many years.
                             
                            It now appears that at long last we may really have a free market situation with supply and demand in rough equilibrium, such that small swings can make the market gyrate wildly. What we really need now is a worldwide equivalent of the Texas Railroad Commission to determine worldwide market demand, then allocate to each producer their proportionate part of the total market.
                             
                            Everyone needs energy, so that would be fair. Of course that will not happen since it violates the sacred market principles, so we will all fight each other over the dwindling supply, and the cut-throat competition will lead to wars and sundry other disasters which may destroy us all, but at least we will die defending our beliefs in markets. I hope I am wrong about this, but history and present trends do not make me optimistic.
                             
                            Charlie Mauch


                            YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS




                            Nan Hildreth  713-842-6643  713-443-3104 NanHildreth@...

                            Have you tested your impact on the climate, your carbon footprint?   www.bp.com/carbonfootprint

                            It's easy to lighten and then eliminate your footprint.  Energy efficiency is good for us and good for the climate, says Houston Climate Protection Alliance www.HoustonClimateProtection.org You can buy clean electricity from several companies www.HoustonConsumerChoice.com. To test how clean they are http://www.powerscorecard.org/

                            Eliminate your footprint by helping others save energy or buying renewable energy credits.  Each compact fluorescent light bulb I give away offsets a half ton of carbon emissions.   You can also support clean energy by buying renewable energy credits at the rate of $4 or $5 per 1,000 miles of driving from online retailers like www.NativeEnergy.org www.Carbonfund.org, www.b-e-f.org, or coming soon, Texas Interfaith Power and Light.

                            Have you done your fair share of climate protection?



                            SPONSORED LINKS
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                            Houston texas mover Houston texas swimming pool builder Houston texas apartment


                            YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS




                            Nan Hildreth  713-842-6643  713-443-3104 NanHildreth@...

                            Have you tested your impact on the climate, your carbon footprint?   www.bp.com/carbonfootprint 

                            It's easy to lighten and then eliminate your footprint.  Energy efficiency is good for us and good for the climate, says Houston Climate Protection Alliance www.HoustonClimateProtection.org   You can buy clean electricity from several companies www.HoustonConsumerChoice.com.  To test how clean they are http://www.powerscorecard.org/

                            Eliminate your footprint by helping others save energy or buying renewable energy credits.  Each compact fluorescent light bulb I give away offsets a half ton of carbon emissions.   You can also support clean energy by buying renewable energy credits at the rate of $4 or $5 per 1,000 miles of driving from online retailers like www.NativeEnergy.org  www.Carbonfund.org,  www.b-e-f.org, or coming soon, Texas Interfaith Power and Light.

                            Have you done your fair share of climate protection?

                          • Dan Stuettgen
                            I don t know if it has dawned on anyone else, but the Government really wanted to solve the energy problem, they could have already. This so called war in
                            Message 13 of 23 , Apr 29, 2006
                            • 0 Attachment
                              I don't know if it has dawned on anyone else,  but the Government really wanted to solve the energy problem, they could have already.  This so called war in Iraq which the Pres says is to build a democrecy is really a move by bush to insure that we have a loyal friend in the mid east to get oil from.  The latest figures that I heard was that they have spent over 300 Billion Dollars on the war so far and maybe more.  Now if they had used that same money on a crash project like they did for the Space race in the 60's, we could already have Hydrogen Fuel cell Technology ready for use in Auto's as well as a unit to power your home.  Just switching half of the vechicles in this country to Hydrogen, would greatly cut the consumption of oil.  Many people will say that it can't be done and it will take 30 years before the technology will be available.  HOGWASH I say.  Fuel cell technology was developed in the 60's for the space program.  All we need is a Pres with the balls to mandate a program like Kennedy did with the Space program to install the inforstructure and manufacture the Fuel cells cheaply.  But since Bush has his hands dirty with oil and oil money and his family and freinds are all in the oil business, this won't happen.  Maybe our next pres will have the balls to really do something about it.
                               
                              Dan S.
                               
                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Jim & Janet
                              Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 3:29 PM
                              To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: [hreg] Are oil company making windfall profits?

                              I seem to recall that, during the '70s oil embargo, it was reported that the Saud Family oil cartel could produce crude oil at fifty cents per barrel if pumping at near full capacity.
                              Now that was >30 years ago but I really believe that your bought and long-ago paid for oil infrastructure can produce a barrel of oil for a lot less than $50/barrel today in Texas. That's price at the wellhead.
                              Valero and other refinerys are making record $billion profits so the strategy must apply to that industry as well.
                              And Congress wants to investigate the retail outlets for price gouging?
                              Jim Duncan
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 8:13 PM
                              Subject: [hreg] Are oil company making windfall profits?

                              I need an economist to explain to me why the oil companies are not making windfall profits.
                               
                              Say I have an oil well in Texas producing x barrels per day at $50 per barrel, the well is drilled and paid for, and I am paying all expenses and making a profit.
                               
                              SNIP
                            • Tommy Yonker
                              Even if after spending 300 billion we were no closer to having the solution, I for one would be much more proud of America if that had been what we had done.
                              Message 14 of 23 , Apr 29, 2006
                              • 0 Attachment

                                Even if after spending 300 billion we were no closer to having the solution, I for one would be much more proud of America if that had been what we had done.

                                Maybe we can get that done.  As renewable energy promoters let’s keep working in a positive way. We are the government, this is America.

                                 

                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dan Stuettgen
                                Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 10:01 AM
                                To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: RE: [hreg] Are oil company making windfall profits?

                                 

                                I don't know if it has dawned on anyone else,  but the Government really wanted to solve the energy problem, they could have already.  This so called war in Iraq which the Pres says is to build a democrecy is really a move by bush to insure that we have a loyal friend in the mid east to get oil from.  The latest figures that I heard was that they have spent over 300 Billion Dollars on the war so far and maybe more.  Now if they had used that same money on a crash project like they did for the Space race in the 60's, we could already have Hydrogen Fuel cell Technology ready for use in Auto's as well as a unit to power your home.  Just switching half of the vechicles in this country to Hydrogen, would greatly cut the consumption of oil.  Many people will say that it can't be done and it will take 30 years before the technology will be available.  HOGWASH I say.  Fuel cell technology was developed in the 60's for the space program.  All we need is a Pres with the balls to mandate a program like Kennedy did with the Space program to install the inforstructure and manufacture the Fuel cells cheaply.  But since Bush has his hands dirty with oil and oil money and his family and freinds are all in the oil business, this won't happen.  Maybe our next pres will have the balls to really do something about it.

                                 

                                Dan S.

                                 

                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Jim & Janet
                                Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 3:29 PM
                                To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: Re: [hreg] Are oil company making windfall profits?

                                I seem to recall that, during the '70s oil embargo, it was reported that the Saud Family oil cartel could produce crude oil at fifty cents per barrel if pumping at near full capacity.

                                Now that was >30 years ago but I really believe that your bought and long-ago paid for oil infrastructure can produce a barrel of oil for a lot less than $50/barrel today in Texas. That's price at the wellhead.

                                Valero and other refinerys are making record $billion profits so the strategy must apply to that industry as well.

                                And Congress wants to investigate the retail outlets for price gouging?

                                Jim Duncan

                                ----- Original Message -----

                                Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 8:13 PM

                                Subject: [hreg] Are oil company making windfall profits?

                                 

                                I need an economist to explain to me why the oil companies are not making windfall profits.

                                 

                                Say I have an oil well in Texas producing x barrels per day at $50 per barrel, the well is drilled and paid for, and I am paying all expenses and making a profit.

                                 

                                SNIP


                                --
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                                Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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                                Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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                              • Bashir Syed
                                Those of us who are scientists and have worked in Space Program know that it is another and Extremely clean way to convert into electrical energy. 1. FUEL
                                Message 15 of 23 , Apr 29, 2006
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Those of us who are scientists and have worked in Space Program know that it is another and Extremely clean way to convert into electrical energy.
                                  1. FUEL CELLS: As we all know it requires Hydrogen and Oxygen to start as a source, and most easily accessible source of it is water which is electrolyzed and decomposed into hydrogen and oxygen. In other words one requires energy to break apart the Water molecules, i.e. the very first step requires energy to produce another form  or source of energy.
                                  2. WIND ENERGY:  Now let us compare it with Wind (wherever it's plentiful, it can be used to transform into other forms of energy). But wind turbines cannot operate everywhere, and wherever feasible the wind turbines can provided electricity 24 hours a day. The turbines do require maintenance, and energy can be trasferred to any consumer via transmission lines. Wind is FREE!
                                  3. SOLAR ENERGY:
                                  (a) Solar Thermal Energy: It can be used to transfer heat from SUN to water and used as hot water or turned into steam to run steam turbines for generating large scale electricity. 
                                  Solar Thermal Energy can also be be to preserve food, crops, vegetables, fruit and fish, etc. Solar Thermal Energy can be used to COOK food and Pasteurize Water for drinking. It cuts down deforestation, which effect climate changes. VERY CHEAP!  
                                  (b) Solar Photovoltaic or PV: Cost, Life & Efficiency is based Technology. 
                                                 Silicon (MonoCrystalline and Poly-Crystalline: , eff. ~ 14-16 %, Life ~ 25 years, Relatively Expensive, requires
                                                             minimum of maintenance of Storage Batteries only in Stand-Alone systems, but practically none for
                                                             Grid-tied systems, which reduce utility bills to the consumer.
                                                 Silicon Thin Film/Amorphous: Eff. ~ 10 % which begins to degrade after about five years; Life ~ 10 years.
                                                             Relatively inexpensive. 
                                                 Cadmium Telluride or CdTe: Eff. ~ 14%, but bad for environmen due to toxicity of Cadmium (only one mfr. in  
                                                             USA)
                                                 Copper-Indium-diSelenide or CuInSe: ~ 13%, cheaper to mfr, not dependent on avaialbility of Silicon
                                                 Conducting Polymer PV Technologhy: Eff, ~ 13 - 14 % with Carbon Nano-tibes, Life ~ 10 years. Requires
                                                            Polymer Chemistry to manufacture these PV materials which are being produced in rolls. Most
                                                            promising   technology.
                                  Thus you have a great choice to utilze Alternate Energy sources!
                                   
                                  Bashir A. Syed
                                   
                                   
                                   
                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 11:00 AM
                                  Subject: RE: [hreg] Are oil company making windfall profits?

                                  I don't know if it has dawned on anyone else,  but the Government really wanted to solve the energy problem, they could have already.  This so called war in Iraq which the Pres says is to build a democrecy is really a move by bush to insure that we have a loyal friend in the mid east to get oil from.  The latest figures that I heard was that they have spent over 300 Billion Dollars on the war so far and maybe more.  Now if they had used that same money on a crash project like they did for the Space race in the 60's, we could already have Hydrogen Fuel cell Technology ready for use in Auto's as well as a unit to power your home.  Just switching half of the vechicles in this country to Hydrogen, would greatly cut the consumption of oil.  Many people will say that it can't be done and it will take 30 years before the technology will be available.  HOGWASH I say.  Fuel cell technology was developed in the 60's for the space program.  All we need is a Pres with the balls to mandate a program like Kennedy did with the Space program to install the inforstructure and manufacture the Fuel cells cheaply.  But since Bush has his hands dirty with oil and oil money and his family and freinds are all in the oil business, this won't happen.  Maybe our next pres will have the balls to really do something about it.
                                   
                                  Dan S.
                                   
                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Jim & Janet
                                  Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 3:29 PM
                                  To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: Re: [hreg] Are oil company making windfall profits?

                                  I seem to recall that, during the '70s oil embargo, it was reported that the Saud Family oil cartel could produce crude oil at fifty cents per barrel if pumping at near full capacity.
                                  Now that was >30 years ago but I really believe that your bought and long-ago paid for oil infrastructure can produce a barrel of oil for a lot less than $50/barrel today in Texas. That's price at the wellhead.
                                  Valero and other refinerys are making record $billion profits so the strategy must apply to that industry as well.
                                  And Congress wants to investigate the retail outlets for price gouging?
                                  Jim Duncan
                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 8:13 PM
                                  Subject: [hreg] Are oil company making windfall profits?

                                  I need an economist to explain to me why the oil companies are not making windfall profits.
                                   
                                  Say I have an oil well in Texas producing x barrels per day at $50 per barrel, the well is drilled and paid for, and I am paying all expenses and making a profit.
                                   
                                  SNIP
                                • Tommy Yonker
                                  Asking as a non scientist why have the fuel cells not taken off? Is the energy required to crack water greater than the available energy in the remaining
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Apr 29, 2006
                                  • 0 Attachment

                                    Asking as a non scientist why have the fuel cells not taken off?  Is the energy required to crack water greater than the available energy in the remaining hydrogen?

                                     

                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bashir Syed
                                    Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 11:05 AM
                                    To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: Re: [hreg] Are oil company making windfall profits?

                                     

                                    Those of us who are scientists and have worked in Space Program know that it is another and Extremely clean way to convert into electrical energy.

                                    1. FUEL CELLS: As we all know it requires Hydrogen and Oxygen to start as a source, and most easily accessible source of it is water which is electrolyzed and decomposed into hydrogen and oxygen. In other words one requires energy to break apart the Water molecules, i.e. the very first step requires energy to produce another form  or source of energy.

                                    2. WIND ENERGY:  Now let us compare it with Wind (wherever it's plentiful, it can be used to transform into other forms of energy). But wind turbines cannot operate everywhere, and wherever feasible the wind turbines can provided electricity 24 hours a day. The turbines do require maintenance, and energy can be trasferred to any consumer via transmission lines. Wind is FREE!

                                    3. SOLAR ENERGY:

                                    (a) Solar Thermal Energy: It can be used to transfer heat from SUN to water and used as hot water or turned into steam to run steam turbines for generating large scale electricity. 

                                    Solar Thermal Energy can also be be to preserve food, crops, vegetables, fruit and fish, etc. Solar Thermal Energy can be used to COOK food and Pasteurize Water for drinking. It cuts down deforestation, which effect climate changes. VERY CHEAP!  

                                    (b) Solar Photovoltaic or PV: Cost, Life & Efficiency is based Technology. 

                                                   Silicon (MonoCrystalline and Poly-Crystalline: , eff. ~ 14-16 %, Life ~ 25 years, Relatively Expensive, requires

                                                               minimum of maintenance of Storage Batteries only in Stand-Alone systems, but practically none for

                                                               Grid-tied systems, which reduce utility bills to the consumer.

                                                   Silicon Thin Film/Amorphous: Eff. ~ 10 % which begins to degrade after about five years; Life ~ 10 years.

                                                               Relatively inexpensive. 

                                                   Cadmium Telluride or CdTe: Eff. ~ 14%, but bad for environmen due to toxicity of Cadmium (only one mfr. in  

                                                               USA)

                                                   Copper-Indium-diSelenide or CuInSe: ~ 13%, cheaper to mfr, not dependent on avaialbility of Silicon

                                                   Conducting Polymer PV Technologhy: Eff, ~ 13 - 14 % with Carbon Nano-tibes, Life ~ 10 years. Requires

                                                              Polymer Chemistry to manufacture these PV materials which are being produced in rolls. Most

                                                              promising   technology.

                                    Thus you have a great choice to utilze Alternate Energy sources!

                                     

                                    Bashir A. Syed

                                     

                                     

                                     

                                    ----- Original Message -----

                                    Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 11:00 AM

                                    Subject: RE: [hreg] Are oil company making windfall profits?

                                     

                                    I don't know if it has dawned on anyone else,  but the Government really wanted to solve the energy problem, they could have already.  This so called war in Iraq which the Pres says is to build a democrecy is really a move by bush to insure that we have a loyal friend in the mid east to get oil from.  The latest figures that I heard was that they have spent over 300 Billion Dollars on the war so far and maybe more.  Now if they had used that same money on a crash project like they did for the Space race in the 60's, we could already have Hydrogen Fuel cell Technology ready for use in Auto's as well as a unit to power your home.  Just switching half of the vechicles in this country to Hydrogen, would greatly cut the consumption of oil.  Many people will say that it can't be done and it will take 30 years before the technology will be available.  HOGWASH I say.  Fuel cell technology was developed in the 60's for the space program.  All we need is a Pres with the balls to mandate a program like Kennedy did with the Space program to install the inforstructure and manufacture the Fuel cells cheaply.  But since Bush has his hands dirty with oil and oil money and his family and freinds are all in the oil business, this won't happen.  Maybe our next pres will have the balls to really do something about it.

                                     

                                    Dan S.

                                     

                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Jim & Janet
                                    Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 3:29 PM
                                    To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: Re: [hreg] Are oil company making windfall profits?

                                    I seem to recall that, during the '70s oil embargo, it was reported that the Saud Family oil cartel could produce crude oil at fifty cents per barrel if pumping at near full capacity.

                                    Now that was >30 years ago but I really believe that your bought and long-ago paid for oil infrastructure can produce a barrel of oil for a lot less than $50/barrel today in Texas. That's price at the wellhead.

                                    Valero and other refinerys are making record $billion profits so the strategy must apply to that industry as well.

                                    And Congress wants to investigate the retail outlets for price gouging?

                                    Jim Duncan

                                    ----- Original Message -----

                                    Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 8:13 PM

                                    Subject: [hreg] Are oil company making windfall profits?

                                     

                                    I need an economist to explain to me why the oil companies are not making windfall profits.

                                     

                                    Say I have an oil well in Texas producing x barrels per day at $50 per barrel, the well is drilled and paid for, and I am paying all expenses and making a profit.

                                     

                                    SNIP

                                     


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                                    Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                                    Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.5.1/327 - Release Date: 4/28/2006


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                                  • Dan Stuettgen
                                    It s to cost to manufacture them, There is no company that has an assmebly line to make them like they do for DVD players. Most Fuel Cells are built by hand
                                    Message 17 of 23 , Apr 29, 2006
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      It's to cost to manufacture them,  There is no company that has an assmebly line to make them like they do for DVD players.  Most Fuel Cells are built by hand and no two are extacly the same.  If some company would invest in an automated assembly line to produce them,  they could be made cheaply.  There are no real exotic materials uned in them to drive the cost up.    I saw an ad in a magazine the other day offering a kit for experimenters and educators for building a fuel cell and instructions on how to produce the hydrogen.  Hell in fact I saw at walmat as well a Estes Rocket toy kit that is hydrogen fuel powered.  If you can make your own for a toy,  then it can't cost much to produce Hydrogen for a fuel cell.
                                       
                                      This link is for a database of all known none model fuel cell generations systems installed. http://www.fuelcells.org/db/projects.php  You will notice that the majority of them are in Japan, and germany, with the US in third and of those in the US, most are either on Government installations or at Universities
                                       
                                      For a good read on fuel cells check out the following link. http://www.dri.edu/Projects/Energy/
                                       
                                      Dan S.
                                      -----Original Message-----
                                      From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Tommy Yonker
                                      Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 2:12 PM
                                      To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: RE: [hreg] Are oil company making windfall profits?

                                      Asking as a non scientist why have the fuel cells not taken off?  Is the energy required to crack water greater than the available energy in the remaining hydrogen?

                                       

                                      -----Original Message-----
                                      From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bashir Syed
                                      Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 11:05 AM
                                      To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: Re: [hreg] Are oil company making windfall profits?

                                       

                                      Those of us who are scientists and have worked in Space Program know that it is another and Extremely clean way to convert into electrical energy.

                                      1. FUEL CELLS: As we all know it requires Hydrogen and Oxygen to start as a source, and most easily accessible source of it is water which is electrolyzed and decomposed into hydrogen and oxygen. In other words one requires energy to break apart the Water molecules, i.e. the very first step requires energy to produce another form  or source of energy.

                                      2. WIND ENERGY:  Now let us compare it with Wind (wherever it's plentiful, it can be used to transform into other forms of energy). But wind turbines cannot operate everywhere, and wherever feasible the wind turbines can provided electricity 24 hours a day. The turbines do require maintenance, and energy can be trasferred to any consumer via transmission lines. Wind is FREE!

                                      3. SOLAR ENERGY:

                                      (a) Solar Thermal Energy: It can be used to transfer heat from SUN to water and used as hot water or turned into steam to run steam turbines for generating large scale electricity. 

                                      Solar Thermal Energy can also be be to preserve food, crops, vegetables, fruit and fish, etc. Solar Thermal Energy can be used to COOK food and Pasteurize Water for drinking. It cuts down deforestation, which effect climate changes. VERY CHEAP!  

                                      (b) Solar Photovoltaic or PV: Cost, Life & Efficiency is based Technology. 

                                                     Silicon (MonoCrystalline and Poly-Crystalline: , eff. ~ 14-16 %, Life ~ 25 years, Relatively Expensive, requires

                                                                 minimum of maintenance of Storage Batteries only in Stand-Alone systems, but practically none for

                                                                 Grid-tied systems, which reduce utility bills to the consumer.

                                                     Silicon Thin Film/Amorphous: Eff. ~ 10 % which begins to degrade after about five years; Life ~ 10 years.

                                                                 Relatively inexpensive. 

                                                     Cadmium Telluride or CdTe: Eff. ~ 14%, but bad for environmen due to toxicity of Cadmium (only one mfr. in  

                                                                 USA)

                                                     Copper-Indium-diSelenide or CuInSe: ~ 13%, cheaper to mfr, not dependent on avaialbility of Silicon

                                                     Conducting Polymer PV Technologhy: Eff, ~ 13 - 14 % with Carbon Nano-tibes, Life ~ 10 years. Requires

                                                                Polymer Chemistry to manufacture these PV materials which are being produced in rolls. Most

                                                                promising   technology.

                                      Thus you have a great choice to utilze Alternate Energy sources!

                                       

                                      Bashir A. Syed

                                       

                                       

                                       

                                      ----- Original Message -----

                                      Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 11:00 AM

                                      Subject: RE: [hreg] Are oil company making windfall profits?

                                       

                                      I don't know if it has dawned on anyone else,  but the Government really wanted to solve the energy problem, they could have already.  This so called war in Iraq which the Pres says is to build a democrecy is really a move by bush to insure that we have a loyal friend in the mid east to get oil from.  The latest figures that I heard was that they have spent over 300 Billion Dollars on the war so far and maybe more.  Now if they had used that same money on a crash project like they did for the Space race in the 60's, we could already have Hydrogen Fuel cell Technology ready for use in Auto's as well as a unit to power your home.  Just switching half of the vechicles in this country to Hydrogen, would greatly cut the consumption of oil.  Many people will say that it can't be done and it will take 30 years before the technology will be available.  HOGWASH I say.  Fuel cell technology was developed in the 60's for the space program.  All we need is a Pres with the balls to mandate a program like Kennedy did with the Space program to install the inforstructure and manufacture the Fuel cells cheaply.  But since Bush has his hands dirty with oil and oil money and his family and freinds are all in the oil business, this won't happen.  Maybe our next pres will have the balls to really do something about it.

                                       

                                      Dan S.

                                       

                                      -----Original Message-----
                                      From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Jim & Janet
                                      Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 3:29 PM
                                      To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: Re: [hreg] Are oil company making windfall profits?

                                      I seem to recall that, during the '70s oil embargo, it was reported that the Saud Family oil cartel could produce crude oil at fifty cents per barrel if pumping at near full capacity.

                                      Now that was >30 years ago but I really believe that your bought and long-ago paid for oil infrastructure can produce a barrel of oil for a lot less than $50/barrel today in Texas. That's price at the wellhead.

                                      Valero and other refinerys are making record $billion profits so the strategy must apply to that industry as well.

                                      And Congress wants to investigate the retail outlets for price gouging?

                                      Jim Duncan

                                      ----- Original Message -----

                                      Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 8:13 PM

                                      Subject: [hreg] Are oil company making windfall profits?

                                       

                                      I need an economist to explain to me why the oil companies are not making windfall profits.

                                       

                                      Say I have an oil well in Texas producing x barrels per day at $50 per barrel, the well is drilled and paid for, and I am paying all expenses and making a profit.

                                       

                                      SNIP

                                       


                                      --
                                      No virus found in this incoming message.
                                      Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                                      Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.5.1/327 - Release Date: 4/28/2006


                                      --
                                      No virus found in this outgoing message.
                                      Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                                      Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.5.1/327 - Release Date: 4/28/2006

                                    • Bashir Syed
                                      There is a Canadian company which has done a lot of Development work on Fuel Cells for Automobile Technology, but the membranes used for Fuel Cells are quite
                                      Message 18 of 23 , Apr 29, 2006
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        There is a Canadian company which has done a lot of Development work on Fuel Cells for Automobile Technology, but the membranes used for Fuel Cells are quite expensive. Kit are OK, but Fuel Cells can be used by large utility companies (I believe the Edison Power Company in New York utilizes Fuel Cells to supplement energy just like many Sky Scrapers in New York City are installing PhotoVoltaic or Solar Arrays not only on roof tops but also infront of their facades and the energy produced by  this PV source is tied to the existing utility lines (or grid) which in some cases has reduced the total utility bill by 70%. Thus the Solar PV Technology is a way to go, which lasts for about 25 years, and all the intial cost of Solar Arrays and associated hardware can be recovered within 5 to 7 years, after which the energy produced by such a system costs nothing (for grid tied systems) because any unused energy is sold back to utility company.
                                        The unfortunate part is avaialability of Silicon Solar Panels (1) due to shortage of Silicon to meet the growing demand, and (2) more than 75% of PV companies which manufacture solar Panels etc. are now owned by three giants, SHELL, BP and GE in the whole world. To obtain the panels there is already big line without any guarantee of getting any where. The Oil giants and GE foresaw this coming, and lined themselves up ahead of everybody creating a virtual monopoly. But there is still light at the end of the tunnel, and new emerging PV technologies promise to provide relief (like the emerging Conducting Polymers and CuInSe, and possibly the Quantum-Dots as well).
                                        In China most rural street lights operate with PV and being innovative they have installed a small wind turbine atop each lamp-post to enhance generation of electrical energy with Wind power too (which increases reliability).  I Europe, tourist boats not only are equiped with Solar roofs for shade, but they also produce enough energy to propel the boats utilizing Solar PV Panels.
                                        In Khatmandu, Nepal about three years ago, a joint venture company introduced electric (battery operated like Golf carts) mini-buses (3 - wheeler capable of carrying 14 persons). Theses vehicles keep two sets of batteries, one set always being charged at a charging stations which derives all energy from Solar PV Panels. During mid-day the batteries are swaped and it has cut down noise as well pollution, and their business is still growing, and in addition this transport system has created many new jobs (Ref. "THe Electric Vehicle Industry in Nepal," by Anil Baral, Home Power Magazine, Issue # 79, pp. 74-78, October/November 2000).
                                        Sky is the limit for utilizing Renewable Energy along with new lighting technology provided by high power LEDs (now Plastic or  Organic or OLEDs, lasting about 11 years [maintenance free and without any kind of fire hazard) with an efficiecy of 99%].   
                                         
                                        Bashir A. Syed  
                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 3:04 PM
                                        Subject: RE: [hreg] Are oil company making windfall profits?

                                        It's to cost to manufacture them,  There is no company that has an assmebly line to make them like they do for DVD players.  Most Fuel Cells are built by hand and no two are extacly the same.  If some company would invest in an automated assembly line to produce them,  they could be made cheaply.  There are no real exotic materials uned in them to drive the cost up.    I saw an ad in a magazine the other day offering a kit for experimenters and educators for building a fuel cell and instructions on how to produce the hydrogen.  Hell in fact I saw at walmat as well a Estes Rocket toy kit that is hydrogen fuel powered.  If you can make your own for a toy,  then it can't cost much to produce Hydrogen for a fuel cell.
                                         
                                        This link is for a database of all known none model fuel cell generations systems installed. http://www.fuelcells.org/db/projects.php  You will notice that the majority of them are in Japan, and germany, with the US in third and of those in the US, most are either on Government installations or at Universities
                                         
                                        For a good read on fuel cells check out the following link. http://www.dri.edu/Projects/Energy/
                                         
                                        Dan S.
                                        -----Original Message-----
                                        From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Tommy Yonker
                                        Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 2:12 PM
                                        To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                                        Subject: RE: [hreg] Are oil company making windfall profits?

                                        Asking as a non scientist why have the fuel cells not taken off?  Is the energy required to crack water greater than the available energy in the remaining hydrogen?

                                         

                                        -----Original Message-----
                                        From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bashir Syed
                                        Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 11:05 AM
                                        To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                                        Subject: Re: [hreg] Are oil company making windfall profits?

                                         

                                        Those of us who are scientists and have worked in Space Program know that it is another and Extremely clean way to convert into electrical energy.

                                        1. FUEL CELLS: As we all know it requires Hydrogen and Oxygen to start as a source, and most easily accessible source of it is water which is electrolyzed and decomposed into hydrogen and oxygen. In other words one requires energy to break apart the Water molecules, i.e. the very first step requires energy to produce another form  or source of energy.

                                        2. WIND ENERGY:  Now let us compare it with Wind (wherever it's plentiful, it can be used to transform into other forms of energy). But wind turbines cannot operate everywhere, and wherever feasible the wind turbines can provided electricity 24 hours a day. The turbines do require maintenance, and energy can be trasferred to any consumer via transmission lines. Wind is FREE!

                                        3. SOLAR ENERGY:

                                        (a) Solar Thermal Energy: It can be used to transfer heat from SUN to water and used as hot water or turned into steam to run steam turbines for generating large scale electricity. 

                                        Solar Thermal Energy can also be be to preserve food, crops, vegetables, fruit and fish, etc. Solar Thermal Energy can be used to COOK food and Pasteurize Water for drinking. It cuts down deforestation, which effect climate changes. VERY CHEAP!  

                                        (b) Solar Photovoltaic or PV: Cost, Life & Efficiency is based Technology. 

                                                       Silicon (MonoCrystalline and Poly-Crystalline: , eff. ~ 14-16 %, Life ~ 25 years, Relatively Expensive, requires

                                                                   minimum of maintenance of Storage Batteries only in Stand-Alone systems, but practically none for

                                                                   Grid-tied systems, which reduce utility bills to the consumer.

                                                       Silicon Thin Film/Amorphous: Eff. ~ 10 % which begins to degrade after about five years; Life ~ 10 years.

                                                                   Relatively inexpensive. 

                                                       Cadmium Telluride or CdTe: Eff. ~ 14%, but bad for environmen due to toxicity of Cadmium (only one mfr. in  

                                                                   USA)

                                                       Copper-Indium-diSelenide or CuInSe: ~ 13%, cheaper to mfr, not dependent on avaialbility of Silicon

                                                       Conducting Polymer PV Technologhy: Eff, ~ 13 - 14 % with Carbon Nano-tibes, Life ~ 10 years. Requires

                                                                  Polymer Chemistry to manufacture these PV materials which are being produced in rolls. Most

                                                                  promising   technology.

                                        Thus you have a great choice to utilze Alternate Energy sources!

                                         

                                        Bashir A. Syed

                                         

                                         

                                         

                                        ----- Original Message -----

                                        Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 11:00 AM

                                        Subject: RE: [hreg] Are oil company making windfall profits?

                                         

                                        I don't know if it has dawned on anyone else,  but the Government really wanted to solve the energy problem, they could have already.  This so called war in Iraq which the Pres says is to build a democrecy is really a move by bush to insure that we have a loyal friend in the mid east to get oil from.  The latest figures that I heard was that they have spent over 300 Billion Dollars on the war so far and maybe more.  Now if they had used that same money on a crash project like they did for the Space race in the 60's, we could already have Hydrogen Fuel cell Technology ready for use in Auto's as well as a unit to power your home.  Just switching half of the vechicles in this country to Hydrogen, would greatly cut the consumption of oil.  Many people will say that it can't be done and it will take 30 years before the technology will be available.  HOGWASH I say.  Fuel cell technology was developed in the 60's for the space program.  All we need is a Pres with the balls to mandate a program like Kennedy did with the Space program to install the inforstructure and manufacture the Fuel cells cheaply.  But since Bush has his hands dirty with oil and oil money and his family and freinds are all in the oil business, this won't happen.  Maybe our next pres will have the balls to really do something about it.

                                         

                                        Dan S.

                                         

                                        -----Original Message-----
                                        From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Jim & Janet
                                        Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 3:29 PM
                                        To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                                        Subject: Re: [hreg] Are oil company making windfall profits?

                                        I seem to recall that, during the '70s oil embargo, it was reported that the Saud Family oil cartel could produce crude oil at fifty cents per barrel if pumping at near full capacity.

                                        Now that was >30 years ago but I really believe that your bought and long-ago paid for oil infrastructure can produce a barrel of oil for a lot less than $50/barrel today in Texas. That's price at the wellhead.

                                        Valero and other refinerys are making record $billion profits so the strategy must apply to that industry as well.

                                        And Congress wants to investigate the retail outlets for price gouging?

                                        Jim Duncan

                                        ----- Original Message -----

                                        Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 8:13 PM

                                        Subject: [hreg] Are oil company making windfall profits?

                                         

                                        I need an economist to explain to me why the oil companies are not making windfall profits.

                                         

                                        Say I have an oil well in Texas producing x barrels per day at $50 per barrel, the well is drilled and paid for, and I am paying all expenses and making a profit.

                                         

                                        SNIP

                                         


                                        --
                                        No virus found in this incoming message.
                                        Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                                        Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.5.1/327 - Release Date: 4/28/2006


                                        --
                                        No virus found in this outgoing message.
                                        Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                                        Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.5.1/327 - Release Date: 4/28/2006

                                      • Tommy Yonker
                                        Sorry to seem so obtuse, I didn’t get the answer, at the present time do fuel cells produce more energy than they consume or are they still at this time a
                                        Message 19 of 23 , Apr 30, 2006
                                        • 0 Attachment

                                          Sorry to seem so obtuse, I didn’t get the answer, at the present time do fuel cells produce more energy than they consume or are they still at this time a promising technology that has not been proven?

                                           

                                          -----Original Message-----
                                          From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bashir Syed
                                          Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 5:08 PM
                                          To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                                          Subject: Re: [hreg] Are oil company making windfall profits?

                                           

                                          There is a Canadian company which has done a lot of Development work on Fuel Cells for Automobile Technology, but the membranes used for Fuel Cells are quite expensive. Kit are OK, but Fuel Cells can be used by large utility companies (I believe the Edison Power Company in New York utilizes Fuel Cells to supplement energy just like many Sky Scrapers in New York City are installing PhotoVoltaic or Solar Arrays not only on roof tops but also infront of their facades and the energy produced by  this PV source is tied to the existing utility lines (or grid) which in some cases has reduced the total utility bill by 70%. Thus the Solar PV Technology is a way to go, which lasts for about 25 years, and all the intial cost of Solar Arrays and associated hardware can be recovered within 5 to 7 years, after which the energy produced by such a system costs nothing (for grid tied systems) because any unused energy is sold back to utility company.

                                          The unfortunate part is avaialability of Silicon Solar Panels (1) due to shortage of Silicon to meet the growing demand, and (2) more than 75% of PV companies which manufacture solar Panels etc. are now owned by three giants, SHELL, BP and GE in the whole world. To obtain the panels there is already big line without any guarantee of getting any where. The Oil giants and GE foresaw this coming, and lined themselves up ahead of everybody creating a virtual monopoly. But there is still light at the end of the tunnel, and new emerging PV technologies promise to provide relief (like the emerging Conducting Polymers and CuInSe, and possibly the Quantum-Dots as well).

                                          In China most rural street lights operate with PV and being innovative they have installed a small wind turbine atop each lamp-post to enhance generation of electrical energy with Wind power too (which increases reliability).  I Europe, tourist boats not only are equiped with Solar roofs for shade, but they also produce enough energy to propel the boats utilizing Solar PV Panels.

                                          In Khatmandu, Nepal about three years ago, a joint venture company introduced electric (battery operated like Golf carts) mini-buses (3 - wheeler capable of carrying 14 persons). Theses vehicles keep two sets of batteries, one set always being charged at a charging stations which derives all energy from Solar PV Panels. During mid-day the batteries are swaped and it has cut down noise as well pollution, and their business is still growing, and in addition this transport system has created many new jobs (Ref. "THe Electric Vehicle Industry in Nepal," by Anil Baral, Home Power Magazine, Issue # 79, pp. 74-78, October/November 2000).

                                          Sky is the limit for utilizing Renewable Energy along with new lighting technology provided by high power LEDs (now Plastic or  Organic or OLEDs, lasting about 11 years [maintenance free and without any kind of fire hazard) with an efficiecy of 99%].   

                                           

                                          Bashir A. Syed  

                                          ----- Original Message -----

                                          Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 3:04 PM

                                          Subject: RE: [hreg] Are oil company making windfall profits?

                                           

                                          It's to cost to manufacture them,  There is no company that has an assmebly line to make them like they do for DVD players.  Most Fuel Cells are built by hand and no two are extacly the same.  If some company would invest in an automated assembly line to produce them,  they could be made cheaply.  There are no real exotic materials uned in them to drive the cost up.    I saw an ad in a magazine the other day offering a kit for experimenters and educators for building a fuel cell and instructions on how to produce the hydrogen.  Hell in fact I saw at walmat as well a Estes Rocket toy kit that is hydrogen fuel powered.  If you can make your own for a toy,  then it can't cost much to produce Hydrogen for a fuel cell.

                                           

                                          This link is for a database of all known none model fuel cell generations systems installed. http://www.fuelcells.org/db/projects.php  You will notice that the majority of them are in Japan, and germany, with the US in third and of those in the US, most are either on Government installations or at Universities

                                           

                                          For a good read on fuel cells check out the following link. http://www.dri.edu/Projects/Energy/

                                           

                                          Dan S.

                                          -----Original Message-----
                                          From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Tommy Yonker
                                          Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 2:12 PM
                                          To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                                          Subject: RE: [hreg] Are oil company making windfall profits?

                                          Asking as a non scientist why have the fuel cells not taken off?  Is the energy required to crack water greater than the available energy in the remaining hydrogen?

                                           

                                          -----Original Message-----
                                          From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bashir Syed
                                          Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 11:05 AM
                                          To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                                          Subject: Re: [hreg] Are oil company making windfall profits?

                                           

                                          Those of us who are scientists and have worked in Space Program know that it is another and Extremely clean way to convert into electrical energy.

                                          1. FUEL CELLS: As we all know it requires Hydrogen and Oxygen to start as a source, and most easily accessible source of it is water which is electrolyzed and decomposed into hydrogen and oxygen. In other words one requires energy to break apart the Water molecules, i.e. the very first step requires energy to produce another form  or source of energy.

                                          2. WIND ENERGY:  Now let us compare it with Wind (wherever it's plentiful, it can be used to transform into other forms of energy). But wind turbines cannot operate everywhere, and wherever feasible the wind turbines can provided electricity 24 hours a day. The turbines do require maintenance, and energy can be trasferred to any consumer via transmission lines. Wind is FREE!

                                          3. SOLAR ENERGY:

                                          (a) Solar Thermal Energy: It can be used to transfer heat from SUN to water and used as hot water or turned into steam to run steam turbines for generating large scale electricity. 

                                          Solar Thermal Energy can also be be to preserve food, crops, vegetables, fruit and fish, etc. Solar Thermal Energy can be used to COOK food and Pasteurize Water for drinking. It cuts down deforestation, which effect climate changes. VERY CHEAP!  

                                          (b) Solar Photovoltaic or PV: Cost, Life & Efficiency is based Technology. 

                                                         Silicon (MonoCrystalline and Poly-Crystalline: , eff. ~ 14-16 %, Life ~ 25 years, Relatively Expensive, requires

                                                                     minimum of maintenance of Storage Batteries only in Stand-Alone systems, but practically none for

                                                                     Grid-tied systems, which reduce utility bills to the consumer.

                                                         Silicon Thin Film/Amorphous: Eff. ~ 10 % which begins to degrade after about five years; Life ~ 10 years.

                                                                     Relatively inexpensive. 

                                                         Cadmium Telluride or CdTe: Eff. ~ 14%, but bad for environmen due to toxicity of Cadmium (only one mfr. in  

                                                                     USA)

                                                         Copper-Indium-diSelenide or CuInSe: ~ 13%, cheaper to mfr, not dependent on avaialbility of Silicon

                                                         Conducting Polymer PV Technologhy: Eff, ~ 13 - 14 % with Carbon Nano-tibes, Life ~ 10 years. Requires

                                                                    Polymer Chemistry to manufacture these PV materials which are being produced in rolls. Most

                                                                    promising   technology.

                                          Thus you have a great choice to utilze Alternate Energy sources!

                                           

                                          Bashir A. Syed

                                           

                                           

                                           

                                          ----- Original Message -----

                                          Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 11:00 AM

                                          Subject: RE: [hreg] Are oil company making windfall profits?

                                           

                                          I don't know if it has dawned on anyone else,  but the Government really wanted to solve the energy problem, they could have already.  This so called war in Iraq which the Pres says is to build a democrecy is really a move by bush to insure that we have a loyal friend in the mid east to get oil from.  The latest figures that I heard was that they have spent over 300 Billion Dollars on the war so far and maybe more.  Now if they had used that same money on a crash project like they did for the Space race in the 60's, we could already have Hydrogen Fuel cell Technology ready for use in Auto's as well as a unit to power your home.  Just switching half of the vechicles in this country to Hydrogen, would greatly cut the consumption of oil.  Many people will say that it can't be done and it will take 30 years before the technology will be available.  HOGWASH I say.  Fuel cell technology was developed in the 60's for the space program.  All we need is a Pres with the balls to mandate a program like Kennedy did with the Space program to install the inforstructure and manufacture the Fuel cells cheaply.  But since Bush has his hands dirty with oil and oil money and his family and freinds are all in the oil business, this won't happen.  Maybe our next pres will have the balls to really do something about it.

                                           

                                          Dan S.

                                           

                                          -----Original Message-----
                                          From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Jim & Janet
                                          Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 3:29 PM
                                          To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                                          Subject: Re: [hreg] Are oil company making windfall profits?

                                          I seem to recall that, during the '70s oil embargo, it was reported that the Saud Family oil cartel could produce crude oil at fifty cents per barrel if pumping at near full capacity.

                                          Now that was >30 years ago but I really believe that your bought and long-ago paid for oil infrastructure can produce a barrel of oil for a lot less than $50/barrel today in Texas. That's price at the wellhead.

                                          Valero and other refinerys are making record $billion profits so the strategy must apply to that industry as well.

                                          And Congress wants to investigate the retail outlets for price gouging?

                                          Jim Duncan

                                          ----- Original Message -----

                                          Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 8:13 PM

                                          Subject: [hreg] Are oil company making windfall profits?

                                           

                                          I need an economist to explain to me why the oil companies are not making windfall profits.

                                           

                                          Say I have an oil well in Texas producing x barrels per day at $50 per barrel, the well is drilled and paid for, and I am paying all expenses and making a profit.

                                           

                                          SNIP

                                           

                                           

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