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RE: [hreg] obscene oil profits?

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  • Tommy Yonker
    In case no one noticed Big Oil has not set oil prices at any time. Prior to OPEC control The Texas Railroad Commission set production proration limits which
    Message 1 of 5 , Mar 12, 2006
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      In case no one noticed “Big Oil” has not set oil prices at any time.  Prior to OPEC control The Texas Railroad Commission set production proration limits which effectively set oil prices.  In case no one remembers, oil was very cheap for many years due to the practice. Now, OPEC has a lot to do with short term oil prices, but in the long run even they are subject to the rule of the worldwide capitalist system we live in.  I am living proof having lived and worked through the oil depression that occurred in our great state of Texas after 1981.  For  20 years after the oil bust  the price of energy has been an unbelievable bargain.  Nobody bothers to ponder it until  prices fly up due to potential supply disruption and short term shortages.  No doubt about it once every 20 years or so “big oil” gets to make unusual profits.  Believe me we do not want to leave the responsibility for world energy supply to OPEC alone. 

       

      In case anyone cares, look at the newspaper for oil prices set in the trading pits in New York, Chicago, London, etc.  Any one has the right to buy or sell at any time.

      Any one who thinks the price of oil is obscenely high priced is perfectly within his rights to purchase as much as his finances allow in order to make a profit.

       

      It is very easy to criticize “big business” when in fact it is our own apathy and ignorance that really keeps us beholden to the many forces that conspire to make energy prices seem to be “obscene”. I think the purpose of the HREG is to think about, educate, support, study and further the use of renewable energy.  I did not think it was a forum to politicize the practices of US Corporations acting legitimately including keeping us in gasoline even during unusual times.  Yes they sometimes make a profit,

      Did we hold their hands when they weren’t?

       

      Let’s use this group to further the intended purpose and leave political pontificating for those who have nothing better to do.

       

      Tommy Yonker

      Corpus Christi, Texas

       

       

       

       

       

      -----Original Message-----
      From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John and Mia
      Sent:
      Sunday, March 12, 2006 9:13 PM
      To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [hreg] obscene oil profits?

       

      March 11, 2006, 8:59PM
      REINVESTMENT
      Without its huge profits, Big Oil can't make huge investments to bring more
      oil and gas to market.


      Copyright 2006 Houston Chronicle

      Exxon Mobil, which racked up a record $36 billion in profits in 2005, has
      had to endure criticism that its earnings are undeserved, even obscene.
      True, the world's largest private energy company could have charged less for
      its oil, gasoline and natural gas, out of simple charity, but only one
      circumstance would have justified the charge that it had made too much
      money: a failure to reinvest.

      The corporation's new CEO, Rex Tillerson, told Wall Street last week that
      his company would invest $15 billion annually over the next five years to
      produce more oil and gas. Over and above that, the company plans to spend $5
      billion this year on its refineries, chemical plants and gas stations. In
      2005, it spent $712 million on research and development of new technology
      that will be needed to extract the oil the world craves and to which
      Americans are addicted.

      The company expects those investments to add 2.5 million barrels of oil to
      the world's daily production, a sum equaling the output of OPEC members such
      as Venezuela.

      Had Exxon Mobil made less money, it would have not only less money to
      invest, but also less incentive to do so. Without huge investments by
      private companies such as Exxon Mobil, Americans would have less oil and gas
      at their disposal and be vulnerable to even higher prices.

      Exxon must spend the money without the certainty that oil will remain at or
      above $60 a barrel. However, if world oil production is nearing its peak
      while demand is only beginning to shake the sleep from its eyes, Exxon Mobil
      stands to make much more.

      The company's high prices should find many defenders among the ranks of
      environmental activists. Without high prices, there would be little
      incentive to conserve. Without conservation, emission of greenhouse gases
      will remain high, aggravating the ill effects of climate change. Perhaps
      unintentionally, the high prices charged by Exxon Mobil and other energy
      companies provide a valuable service. By sparking conservation and
      increasing the urgency of alternative fuel development, the energy industry
      is fueling the actions needed to curb carbon emissions and slow the global
      warming that Exxon continues to deny.


    • Mike C
      Big Oil has not set prices, and that is correct. However, Big Oil can set up shop in underdeveloped countries and stranglehold those governments to selling
      Message 2 of 5 , Mar 19, 2006
      • 0 Attachment

        In case no one noticed “Big Oil” has not set oil prices at any time.  Prior to OPEC control The Texas Railroad Commission set production proration limits which effectively set oil prices.  In case no one remembers, oil was very cheap for many years due to the practice. Now, OPEC has a lot to do with short term oil prices, but in the long run even they are subject to the rule of the worldwide capitalist system we live in.  I am living proof having lived and worked through the oil depression that occurred in our great state of Texas after 1981.  For  20 years after the oil bust  the price of energy has been an unbelievable bargain.  Nobody bothers to ponder it until  prices fly up due to potential supply disruption and short term shortages.  No doubt about it once every 20 years or so “big oil” gets to make unusual profits.  Believe me we do not want to leave the responsibility for world energy supply to OPEC alone. 

         

        In case anyone cares, look at the newspaper for oil prices set in the trading pits in New York, Chicago, London, etc.  Any one has the right to buy or sell at any time.

        Any one who thinks the price of oil is obscenely high priced is perfectly within his rights to purchase as much as his finances allow in order to make a profit.

         

        It is very easy to criticize “big business” when in fact it is our own apathy and ignorance that really keeps us beholden to the many forces that conspire to make energy prices seem to be “obscene”. I think the purpose of the HREG is to think about, educate, support, study and further the use of renewable energy.  I did not think it was a forum to politicize the practices of US Corporations acting legitimately including keeping us in gasoline even during unusual times.  Yes they sometimes make a profit,

        Did we hold their hands when they weren’t?

         

        Let’s use this group to further the intended purpose and leave political pontificating for those who have nothing better to do.

         

        Tommy Yonker

        Corpus Christi, Texas

         

         

         

         

         

        -----Original Message-----
        From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John and Mia
        Sent:
        Sunday, March 12, 2006 9:13 PM
        To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [hreg] obscene oil profits?

         

        March 11, 2006, 8:59PM
        REINVESTMENT
        Without its huge profits, Big Oil can't make huge investments to bring more
        oil and gas to market.


        Copyright 2006 Houston Chronicle

        Exxon Mobil, which racked up a record $36 billion in profits in 2005, has
        had to endure criticism that its earnings are undeserved, even obscene.
        True, the world's largest private energy company could have charged less for
        its oil, gasoline and natural gas, out of simple charity, but only one
        circumstance would have justified the charge that it had made too much
        money: a failure to reinvest.

        The corporation's new CEO, Rex Tillerson, told Wall Street last week that
        his company would invest $15 billion annually over the next five years to
        produce more oil and gas. Over and above that, the company plans to spend $5
        billion this year on its refineries, chemical plants and gas stations. In
        2005, it spent $712 million on research and development of new technology
        that will be needed to extract the oil the world craves and to which
        Americans are addicted.

        The company expects those investments to add 2.5 million barrels of oil to
        the world's daily production, a sum equaling the output of OPEC members such
        as Venezuela.

        Had Exxon Mobil made less money, it would have not only less money to
        invest, but also less incentive to do so. Without huge investments by
        private companies such as Exxon Mobil, Americans would have less oil and gas
        at their disposal and be vulnerable to even higher prices.

        Exxon must spend the money without the certainty that oil will remain at or
        above $60 a barrel. However, if world oil production is nearing its peak
        while demand is only beginning to shake the sleep from its eyes, Exxon Mobil
        stands to make much more.

        The company's high prices should find many defenders among the ranks of
        environmental activists. Without high prices, there would be little
        incentive to conserve. Without conservation, emission of greenhouse gases
        will remain high, aggravating the ill effects of climate change. Perhaps
        unintentionally, the high prices charged by Exxon Mobil and other energy
        companies provide a valuable service. By sparking conservation and
        increasing the urgency of alternative fuel development, the energy industry
        is fueling the actions needed to curb carbon emissions and slow the global
        warming that Exxon continues to deny.


      • Tommy Yonker
        Sorry, the price of oil is set in new york by open outcry, there is no strangle hold there. If you think there is you are free to act on your conviction with
        Message 3 of 5 , Mar 19, 2006
        • 0 Attachment

          Sorry, the price of oil is set in new york by open outcry, there is no strangle hold there. If you think there is you are free to act on your conviction with your own resources. Your attempt to divert the attention of the group by citing unsupported allegations about corporate misdeeds in Nigeria does not change the fact.  Again if oil prices are out of whack you have the perfect right to act accordingly. Profits are what our country is based on, they are not something to be looked at as criminal.  Every one in the group should get used to the facts: oil has been and continues to be one of the biggest bargains on the planet. How is it that the price of oil has stayed so low for so many years?  Maybe we should discuss the use of the full faith and credit of our American military machine in order to keep prices low.  I believe that discussion would be more to the point. All of the above however is not the purpose of our HREG.  Oil is not a renewable.  It only affects the economics of renewables . The best hope to render the price of oil much less meaningful to all of us is to whole heartedly pursue the renewables. When we are all off the grid we’ll be able to thumb our noses at big oil and opec just as we did  in the 80’s and 90’s.  Let’s talk PV, Hydro, Wind. What about the crime of dark shingles on any home built in the last ten years?  No radiant barriers in attics, air leaks, inefficient hvac, going to the market for a dozen eggs in a 12,000 pound SUV etc?

           

           

          Tommy Yonker

           

           

          -----Original Message-----
          From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike C
          Sent:
          Sunday, March 19, 2006 7:21 AM
          To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: [hreg] obscene oil profits?

           

          Big Oil has not set prices, and that is correct.  However,  Big Oil can set up shop in underdeveloped countries and stranglehold those governments to selling their oil at unbelievable low prices, and then turn around and sell that oil on the world market for profits .....and the underdeveloped country receives not a fair shair of these proceeds, proceeds which would and should go back to elevating the plight of the people in that country.  Nigeria is a case in point.

          Yes, the governments may be at times corrupt, but the oil companies payoff the leaders for access to the oil resources.

          So when Big OIl is making such huge profits, one needs to look at how it's making these huge profits.  Certainly supply and demand are a factor.  But it cannot be forgotten the tactics they have used to secure oil resources in underdevelop countries.

          Just recently Citgo was and is offering low cost oil to the poorest of the areas in Chicago and New York.  Now Congress wants to investigate the company for anit business practices.  But yet, Congress will not fully investigate the Big Oil companies record profits and tactics.

          So here you have Big Oil with huge profits, but are doing nothing to allevate the oil prices and you have Citgo giving an effort to make home heating oil available for the poorest and their the ones being investigated.

          On Sunday, March 12, 2006, at 09:58PM, Tommy Yonker <tyonker@...> wrote:

          >
          ><<Original Attached>>

        • jmc1007@mac.com
          Unsupported allegations? Plenty of information out there supporting these allegations . Price of oil in the U.S. is 4x s less than in Europe. The U.S.
          Message 4 of 5 , Mar 19, 2006
          • 0 Attachment
            Unsupported allegations?   Plenty of information out there supporting these "allegations".  Price of oil in the U.S. is 4x's less than in Europe.  The U.S. government supports through tax subsidies the oil companies profits.  That one reason for the price of oil being so low, in the U.S. anyway.  The other way is the price oil companies strong hold foreign governments for their resources.
            On Mar 19, 2006, at 6:02 PM, Tommy Yonker wrote:

            Sorry, the price of oil is set in new york by open outcry, there is no strangle hold there. If you think there is you are free to act on your conviction with your own resources. Your attempt to divert the attention of the group by citing unsupported allegations about corporate misdeeds in Nigeria does not change the fact.  Again if oil prices are out of whack you have the perfect right to act accordingly. Profits are what our country is based on, they are not something to be looked at as criminal.  Every one in the group should get used to the facts: oil has been and continues to be one of the biggest bargains on the planet. How is it that the price of oil has stayed so low for so many years?  Maybe we should discuss the use of the full faith and credit of our American military machine in order to keep prices low.  I believe that discussion would be more to the point. All of the above however is not the purpose of our HREG.  Oil is not a renewable.  It only affects the economics of renewables . The best hope to render the price of oil much less meaningful to all of us is to whole heartedly pursue the renewables. When we are all off the grid we’ll be able to thumb our noses at big oil and opec just as we did  in the 80’s and 90’s.  Let’s talk PV, Hydro, Wind. What about the crime of dark shingles on any home built in the last ten years?  No radiant barriers in attics, air leaks, inefficient hvac, going to the market for a dozen eggs in a 12,000 pound SUV etc?

             
             

            Tommy Yonker

             
             

            -----Original Message-----
            From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike C
            Sent:
            Sunday, March 19, 2006 7:21 AM
            To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [hreg] obscene oil profits?

             

            Big Oil has not set prices, and that is correct.  However,  Big Oil can set up shop in underdeveloped countries and stranglehold those governments to selling their oil at unbelievable low prices, and then turn around and sell that oil on the world market for profits .....and the underdeveloped country receives not a fair shair of these proceeds, proceeds which would and should go back to elevating the plight of the people in that country.  Nigeria is a case in point.

            Yes, the governments may be at times corrupt, but the oil companies payoff the leaders for access to the oil resources.

            So when Big OIl is making such huge profits, one needs to look at how it's making these huge profits.  Certainly supply and demand are a factor.  But it cannot be forgotten the tactics they have used to secure oil resources in underdevelop countries.

            Just recently Citgo was and is offering low cost oil to the poorest of the areas in Chicago and New York.  Now Congress wants to investigate the company for anit business practices.  But yet, Congress will not fully investigate the Big Oil companies record profits and tactics.

            So here you have Big Oil with huge profits, but are doing nothing to allevate the oil prices and you have Citgo giving an effort to make home heating oil available for the poorest and their the ones being investigated.

            On Sunday, March 12, 2006, at 09:58PM, Tommy Yonker <tyonker@...> wrote:

            >
            ><<Original Attached>>



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