Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: Solar economics

Expand Messages
  • Jim Syzdek
    Kevin, Hi. I m a new member just picked up from the NASA Health and Safety day at JSC. I read Jonathan s presentation and it looked really ... I have been
    Message 1 of 19 , Oct 20, 2000
      Kevin,
      Hi. I'm a new member just picked up from the NASA Health and Safety
      day at JSC. I read Jonathan's presentation and it looked really
      good. He did a great job. I agree with you on your comment:

      >We get several calls a week from people wanting to lower their
      >utility bills and I have to tell them that solar doesn't make sense
      >if you are already connected to the grid.

      I have been looking at being an independent self sufficient
      individual for years and how I can make this happen. My first steps
      have been to reduce my existing use of energy as you suggested. I
      have lowered my monthly electric bill by about $30-$40 a month just
      by replacing most incadescents with flourescents, getting rid of
      waterbeds with heater, using an electronic thermostat for the A/C,
      using gas instead of electricity for clothes drying.
      Solar electric is expensive at present, as we all are aware, but
      there are little things that people in the cities can do to start the
      transition to solar power. Some being: getting rid of incadescent
      lights and use flourescents(these are getting very reasonably
      priced), use solar screens on your windows, getting rid of electric
      driers if you have gas, and use the electronic thermostats for A/C,
      getting rid of phantom loads throughout your house, just to name a
      few. Also, there are small solar powered devices out there that
      don't cost too much, that will give them the feel good aspect of
      using solar, such as solar powered outdoor lights with motion sensor,
      solar radios, solar powered attic vent fans, solar powered lamps, and
      many, many, more items. These items can be found in magazines just
      about everywhere.

      Thanks,
      Jim Syzdek

      --- In hreg@egroups.com, "Kevin L. Conlin" <kconlin@s...> wrote:
      > Hi Jonathan, Liked your presentation on solar economics, sorry I
      didn't see it in person in Fredricksburg. We get several calls a week
      from people wanting to lower their utility bills and I have to tell
      them that solar doesn't make sense if you are already connected to
      the grid. From their reaction I'm sure this puts people off, but
      it's the truth, and I'm not big on selling people expensive things
      they really don't need. I usually tell them that they should conserve
      the energy they are now buying rather than try to generate their own,
      but most people are attracted to the quick fix and seem to think that
      solar can offer a magic solution to their problems. The intuitive
      friendliness people seem to have towards solar has created a lot of
      opportunities for con artists in the past, and has left a lot of
      disappointed customers in their wake. I wish I had a better answer
      for them, but I have neither the time or patience to get into all
      the economic details of renewables, conservation, social costs,
      environmental impact, etc... This is why I chose to sell to industry,
      not consumers. On the other hand, I don't want to discourage them
      completely, so I really don't know the best way to handle these
      inquiries other than to refer them to HREG, TX-SES or TREIA. Any
      thoughts or suggestions? Does anyone in HREG want to talk to these
      people, or have a better answer than I do? Keep up the good work!
      regards, Kevin Conlin
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: Solarcraft
      > To: Kevin L. Conlin
      > Sent: Monday, October 09, 2000 10:25 AM
      > Subject: Fw: [hreg] Economics of RE Part 2
      >
      >
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: Jonathan Clemens
      > To: hreg@egroups.com
      > Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2000 1:14 PM
      > Subject: [hreg] Economics of RE Part 2
      >
      >
      > HREG,
      >
      > FYI, Part 2 of 2 attached re: Economics of RE charts provided at
      the Roundup. Part 2 contains the appendix items. The original
      powerpoint file was split into two parts in order to comply with the
      egroups maximum of 1MB sized messages.
      >
      > Jonathan
    • Steve Shepard
      If Mr. Conlin doesn t have time or care to communicate with potential interests in solar then please allow me to volunteer our time and efforts. We enjoy the
      Message 2 of 19 , Oct 20, 2000
        If Mr. Conlin doesn't have time or care to communicate with potential
        interests in solar then please allow me to volunteer our time and efforts.

        We enjoy the opportunity to speak with new users and potential new users of
        renewable energy technologies. Our motivation is economic to be sure but
        our company mission is also based on empowering our customers with the
        ability to generate their own power, become more self sufficient, be more
        ecological consumers and conserve our country's resources. This is a
        powerful desire for us as individuals and as a small business.

        It is also bonus to us that we also create competition for the government
        owned and operated electric utility monopolies that operate in our region.
        City Public Service (CPS)functions as an annexation scout for the City of
        San Antonio. CPS is aggressively branching out, marketing and attempting to
        providing service to rural regions prior to electric utility deregulation
        which is scheduled for 2002.

        San Antonio is one of the most aggressive annexation municipalities in the
        State of Texas. In the last five years SA has annexed over 50,000 rural
        county residents. The City only provides increased taxes for these invaded
        citizens and provides little or no city services in return. San Antonio
        follows the path that CPS forges invades and annexes the rural regions that
        CPS engulfs.

        We welcome any interest, need, question or requirements related to renewable
        energy technologies. As a small family business we recognize it is an
        opportunity and a privilege to be of service. It's also a lot of fun!

        Steve Shepard
        SBT Designs
        25840 IH-10 West #1
        Boerne, Texas 78006
        210-698-7109
        FAX: 210-698-7147
        http://www.sbtdesigns.com
        sbtdesigns@...

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Jim Syzdek" <jksyzdek@...>
        To: <hreg@egroups.com>
        Sent: Friday, October 20, 2000 10:29 AM
        Subject: [hreg] Re: Solar economics


        > Kevin,
        > Hi. I'm a new member just picked up from the NASA Health and Safety
        > day at JSC. I read Jonathan's presentation and it looked really
        > good. He did a great job. I agree with you on your comment:
        >
        > >We get several calls a week from people wanting to lower their
        > >utility bills and I have to tell them that solar doesn't make sense
        > >if you are already connected to the grid.
        >
        > I have been looking at being an independent self sufficient
        > individual for years and how I can make this happen. My first steps
        > have been to reduce my existing use of energy as you suggested. I
        > have lowered my monthly electric bill by about $30-$40 a month just
        > by replacing most incadescents with flourescents, getting rid of
        > waterbeds with heater, using an electronic thermostat for the A/C,
        > using gas instead of electricity for clothes drying.
        > Solar electric is expensive at present, as we all are aware, but
        > there are little things that people in the cities can do to start the
        > transition to solar power. Some being: getting rid of incadescent
        > lights and use flourescents(these are getting very reasonably
        > priced), use solar screens on your windows, getting rid of electric
        > driers if you have gas, and use the electronic thermostats for A/C,
        > getting rid of phantom loads throughout your house, just to name a
        > few. Also, there are small solar powered devices out there that
        > don't cost too much, that will give them the feel good aspect of
        > using solar, such as solar powered outdoor lights with motion sensor,
        > solar radios, solar powered attic vent fans, solar powered lamps, and
        > many, many, more items. These items can be found in magazines just
        > about everywhere.
        >
        > Thanks,
        > Jim Syzdek
        >
        > --- In hreg@egroups.com, "Kevin L. Conlin" <kconlin@s...> wrote:
        > > Hi Jonathan, Liked your presentation on solar economics, sorry I
        > didn't see it in person in Fredricksburg. We get several calls a week
        > from people wanting to lower their utility bills and I have to tell
        > them that solar doesn't make sense if you are already connected to
        > the grid. From their reaction I'm sure this puts people off, but
        > it's the truth, and I'm not big on selling people expensive things
        > they really don't need. I usually tell them that they should conserve
        > the energy they are now buying rather than try to generate their own,
        > but most people are attracted to the quick fix and seem to think that
        > solar can offer a magic solution to their problems. The intuitive
        > friendliness people seem to have towards solar has created a lot of
        > opportunities for con artists in the past, and has left a lot of
        > disappointed customers in their wake. I wish I had a better answer
        > for them, but I have neither the time or patience to get into all
        > the economic details of renewables, conservation, social costs,
        > environmental impact, etc... This is why I chose to sell to industry,
        > not consumers. On the other hand, I don't want to discourage them
        > completely, so I really don't know the best way to handle these
        > inquiries other than to refer them to HREG, TX-SES or TREIA. Any
        > thoughts or suggestions? Does anyone in HREG want to talk to these
        > people, or have a better answer than I do? Keep up the good work!
        > regards, Kevin Conlin
        > > ----- Original Message -----
        > > From: Solarcraft
        > > To: Kevin L. Conlin
        > > Sent: Monday, October 09, 2000 10:25 AM
        > > Subject: Fw: [hreg] Economics of RE Part 2
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > ----- Original Message -----
        > > From: Jonathan Clemens
        > > To: hreg@egroups.com
        > > Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2000 1:14 PM
        > > Subject: [hreg] Economics of RE Part 2
        > >
        > >
        > > HREG,
        > >
        > > FYI, Part 2 of 2 attached re: Economics of RE charts provided at
        > the Roundup. Part 2 contains the appendix items. The original
        > powerpoint file was split into two parts in order to comply with the
        > egroups maximum of 1MB sized messages.
        > >
        > > Jonathan
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • Becky Merritt
        Jim, I agree with you that we need to reduce our existing use of energy. I believe that the key to using solar energy successfully is to first become as
        Message 3 of 19 , Oct 20, 2000
          Jim,

          I agree with you that we need to reduce our existing use of energy. I believe that the key to using solar energy successfully is to first become as energy efficient as possible. To that end, some other things to think about are using landscaping to block the sun in warm months and let it shine through in the cold month (deciduous trees, shrubs and vines, for ex). Plants can be put to use to encourage good air circulation around a home, too. Don't forget that a yard full of grass has a cooling effect.

          Building an arbor or a patio cover on the east or west side of the house is a good idea, too. My husband and I built an arbor on the east side, shading our living room windows and planted wisteria vines. Now, we don't even need window coverings on those windows. The living room is bright enough during the day that we don't need to turn on lights, either. It also keeps our carpet and upholstery from fadiing.

          Remember to check seals around doors and windows, and add more insulation in the attic if it is warranted. I have seen solar powered roof vents for sale. I'm going to look into getting one for my garage. ( I already have an electric roof vent for the house)

          The solar sun screens are beneficial, as they block some of the sun's energy before it enters the home. I made 14 screens for my house, and saved a lot of money by doing it myself. (The less expense, the quicker the payoff time) I take the screens down in the cold months and put them back up when it gets warm again.

          If you are just building a house, orientation is critical. A North facing orientation is probably ideal. Remember, though, that you want it to face due north, not magnetic north for maximum efficiency.

          These are just a few thoughts. I'm sure there are a lot more out there. Good luck!

          Becky Merritt
        • Kevin L. Conlin
          Hi Jim , I agree with your approach, you ve done the sensible things that make economic sense, and although they re not solar per se, the first step in
          Message 4 of 19 , Oct 20, 2000
            Hi Jim , I agree with your approach, you've done the sensible things that
            make economic sense, and although they're not solar per se, the first step
            in utilizing solar has ALWAYS been to reduce your load. This applies to my
            industrial customers as well.
            Many of them have learned that by cycling certain loads and conserving power
            they can reduce the solar array by a factor of 5 or 10. This might mean a
            smaller solar system, but lots more of them.
            A solar powered attic vent fan is a very good example of how a small solar
            appliance can reduce the load on a much larger one - the air conditioner.
            The solar vent fan in Fredricksburg was decent quality, but a lot of solar
            gizmo's are inherently poor quality, comparable to toys. When you buy solar
            landscape lights and such you will probably be disappointed in the poor
            light output compared to std. landscape lighting. Most of them fail within
            a year or two, and I am convinced they build them knowing the American
            consumer is somewhat tolerant of poor quality products and seldom exercises
            his warranty rights on products inder $100. Maybe I'm getting cynical in my
            old age, but it disappoints me to see the constant stream of hype and
            marketing bs that accompanies most solar products. The fact is few of them
            perform to the standards we hold other products to, and most of them exploit
            the public's natural friendliness toward solar energy.

            Don't take my comments wrong, you've done a good job in reducing your
            consumption in a sensible way, just be careful in what solar products you
            buy, and make sure it is for the right reason. Thanks for your input. Best
            regards, Kevin

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Jim Syzdek <jksyzdek@...>
            To: <hreg@egroups.com>
            Sent: Friday, October 20, 2000 8:29 AM
            Subject: [hreg] Re: Solar economics


            > Kevin,
            > Hi. I'm a new member just picked up from the NASA Health and Safety
            > day at JSC. I read Jonathan's presentation and it looked really
            > good. He did a great job. I agree with you on your comment:
            >
            > >We get several calls a week from people wanting to lower their
            > >utility bills and I have to tell them that solar doesn't make sense
            > >if you are already connected to the grid.
            >
            > I have been looking at being an independent self sufficient
            > individual for years and how I can make this happen. My first steps
            > have been to reduce my existing use of energy as you suggested. I
            > have lowered my monthly electric bill by about $30-$40 a month just
            > by replacing most incadescents with flourescents, getting rid of
            > waterbeds with heater, using an electronic thermostat for the A/C,
            > using gas instead of electricity for clothes drying.
            > Solar electric is expensive at present, as we all are aware, but
            > there are little things that people in the cities can do to start the
            > transition to solar power. Some being: getting rid of incadescent
            > lights and use flourescents(these are getting very reasonably
            > priced), use solar screens on your windows, getting rid of electric
            > driers if you have gas, and use the electronic thermostats for A/C,
            > getting rid of phantom loads throughout your house, just to name a
            > few. Also, there are small solar powered devices out there that
            > don't cost too much, that will give them the feel good aspect of
            > using solar, such as solar powered outdoor lights with motion sensor,
            > solar radios, solar powered attic vent fans, solar powered lamps, and
            > many, many, more items. These items can be found in magazines just
            > about everywhere.
            >
            > Thanks,
            > Jim Syzdek
            >
            > --- In hreg@egroups.com, "Kevin L. Conlin" <kconlin@s...> wrote:
            > > Hi Jonathan, Liked your presentation on solar economics, sorry I
            > didn't see it in person in Fredricksburg. We get several calls a week
            > from people wanting to lower their utility bills and I have to tell
            > them that solar doesn't make sense if you are already connected to
            > the grid. From their reaction I'm sure this puts people off, but
            > it's the truth, and I'm not big on selling people expensive things
            > they really don't need. I usually tell them that they should conserve
            > the energy they are now buying rather than try to generate their own,
            > but most people are attracted to the quick fix and seem to think that
            > solar can offer a magic solution to their problems. The intuitive
            > friendliness people seem to have towards solar has created a lot of
            > opportunities for con artists in the past, and has left a lot of
            > disappointed customers in their wake. I wish I had a better answer
            > for them, but I have neither the time or patience to get into all
            > the economic details of renewables, conservation, social costs,
            > environmental impact, etc... This is why I chose to sell to industry,
            > not consumers. On the other hand, I don't want to discourage them
            > completely, so I really don't know the best way to handle these
            > inquiries other than to refer them to HREG, TX-SES or TREIA. Any
            > thoughts or suggestions? Does anyone in HREG want to talk to these
            > people, or have a better answer than I do? Keep up the good work!
            > regards, Kevin Conlin
            > > ----- Original Message -----
            > > From: Solarcraft
            > > To: Kevin L. Conlin
            > > Sent: Monday, October 09, 2000 10:25 AM
            > > Subject: Fw: [hreg] Economics of RE Part 2
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > ----- Original Message -----
            > > From: Jonathan Clemens
            > > To: hreg@egroups.com
            > > Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2000 1:14 PM
            > > Subject: [hreg] Economics of RE Part 2
            > >
            > >
            > > HREG,
            > >
            > > FYI, Part 2 of 2 attached re: Economics of RE charts provided at
            > the Roundup. Part 2 contains the appendix items. The original
            > powerpoint file was split into two parts in order to comply with the
            > egroups maximum of 1MB sized messages.
            > >
            > > Jonathan
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
          • Kevin L. Conlin
            Good for you, Becky, the passive solar approach you ve taken can be utilized to some degree by almost everyone in Texas. It may not be as exciting as using PV
            Message 5 of 19 , Oct 20, 2000
              Good for you, Becky, the passive solar approach you've taken can be utilized
              to some degree by almost everyone in Texas.
              It may not be as exciting as using PV panels, but makes a lot of sense, is
              cost effective, and creates a more pleasant yard environment. We've done a
              lot of the same things on our home, including deciduous trees on the South
              side and enjoy lower utility bills as a result. We looked hard to find an
              energy efficient home to start with as well, and had the builder upgrade the
              AC unit as well. One thing that I did learn is that a lot of the high
              efficiency AC units are built better than lower efficiency ones and seem to
              last quite a bit longer with fewer maint and service problems. Good job.
              Regards, kevin

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Becky Merritt <bmeritt@...>
              To: <hreg@egroups.com>; <jksyzdek@...>
              Sent: Friday, October 20, 2000 9:05 AM
              Subject: [hreg] Re: Solar economics


              > Jim,
              >
              > I agree with you that we need to reduce our existing use of energy. I
              believe that the key to using solar energy successfully is to first become
              as energy efficient as possible. To that end, some other things to think
              about are using landscaping to block the sun in warm months and let it shine
              through in the cold month (deciduous trees, shrubs and vines, for ex).
              Plants can be put to use to encourage good air circulation around a home,
              too. Don't forget that a yard full of grass has a cooling effect.
              >
              > Building an arbor or a patio cover on the east or west side of the house
              is a good idea, too. My husband and I built an arbor on the east side,
              shading our living room windows and planted wisteria vines. Now, we don't
              even need window coverings on those windows. The living room is bright
              enough during the day that we don't need to turn on lights, either. It also
              keeps our carpet and upholstery from fadiing.
              >
              > Remember to check seals around doors and windows, and add more insulation
              in the attic if it is warranted. I have seen solar powered roof vents for
              sale. I'm going to look into getting one for my garage. ( I already have an
              electric roof vent for the house)
              >
              > The solar sun screens are beneficial, as they block some of the sun's
              energy before it enters the home. I made 14 screens for my house, and saved
              a lot of money by doing it myself. (The less expense, the quicker the payoff
              time) I take the screens down in the cold months and put them back up when
              it gets warm again.
              >
              > If you are just building a house, orientation is critical. A North facing
              orientation is probably ideal. Remember, though, that you want it to face
              due north, not magnetic north for maximum efficiency.
              >
              > These are just a few thoughts. I'm sure there are a lot more out there.
              Good luck!
              >
              > Becky Merritt
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
            • Lisha Doucet
              Hi Becky, Can you post how you built your solar screens. I would like to do the same for my house. Thanks, Lisha Doucet ...
              Message 6 of 19 , Oct 20, 2000
                Hi Becky,

                Can you post how you built your solar screens. I would like to do the same
                for my house.

                Thanks,
                Lisha Doucet


                >From: "Becky Merritt" <bmeritt@...>
                >Reply-To: hreg@egroups.com
                >To: <hreg@egroups.com>, <jksyzdek@...>
                >Subject: [hreg] Re: Solar economics
                >Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 11:05:56 -0500
                >
                >Jim,
                >
                >I agree with you that we need to reduce our existing use of energy. I
                >believe that the key to using solar energy successfully is to first become
                >as energy efficient as possible. To that end, some other things to think
                >about are using landscaping to block the sun in warm months and let it
                >shine through in the cold month (deciduous trees, shrubs and vines, for
                >ex). Plants can be put to use to encourage good air circulation around a
                >home, too. Don't forget that a yard full of grass has a cooling effect.
                >
                >Building an arbor or a patio cover on the east or west side of the house is
                >a good idea, too. My husband and I built an arbor on the east side, shading
                >our living room windows and planted wisteria vines. Now, we don't even need
                >window coverings on those windows. The living room is bright enough during
                >the day that we don't need to turn on lights, either. It also keeps our
                >carpet and upholstery from fadiing.
                >
                >Remember to check seals around doors and windows, and add more insulation
                >in the attic if it is warranted. I have seen solar powered roof vents for
                >sale. I'm going to look into getting one for my garage. ( I already have an
                >electric roof vent for the house)
                >
                >The solar sun screens are beneficial, as they block some of the sun's
                >energy before it enters the home. I made 14 screens for my house, and saved
                >a lot of money by doing it myself. (The less expense, the quicker the
                >payoff time) I take the screens down in the cold months and put them back
                >up when it gets warm again.
                >
                >If you are just building a house, orientation is critical. A North facing
                >orientation is probably ideal. Remember, though, that you want it to face
                >due north, not magnetic north for maximum efficiency.
                >
                >These are just a few thoughts. I'm sure there are a lot more out there.
                >Good luck!
                >
                >Becky Merritt
                >
                >

                _________________________________________________________________________
                Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com

                Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
                http://profiles.msn.com
              • Ida G Morello
                Please do not send any further info. Thanx.. tmm ... From: Steve Shepard To: Sent: Friday, October 20, 2000 3:56
                Message 7 of 19 , Oct 21, 2000
                  Please do not send any further info.
                  Thanx.. tmm

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Steve Shepard <sbtdesigns@...>
                  To: <hreg@egroups.com>
                  Sent: Friday, October 20, 2000 3:56 PM
                  Subject: Re: [hreg] Re: Solar economics


                  > If Mr. Conlin doesn't have time or care to communicate with potential
                  > interests in solar then please allow me to volunteer our time and efforts.
                  >
                  > We enjoy the opportunity to speak with new users and potential new users
                  of
                  > renewable energy technologies. Our motivation is economic to be sure but
                  > our company mission is also based on empowering our customers with the
                  > ability to generate their own power, become more self sufficient, be more
                  > ecological consumers and conserve our country's resources. This is a
                  > powerful desire for us as individuals and as a small business.
                  >
                  > It is also bonus to us that we also create competition for the government
                  > owned and operated electric utility monopolies that operate in our region.
                  > City Public Service (CPS)functions as an annexation scout for the City of
                  > San Antonio. CPS is aggressively branching out, marketing and attempting
                  to
                  > providing service to rural regions prior to electric utility deregulation
                  > which is scheduled for 2002.
                  >
                  > San Antonio is one of the most aggressive annexation municipalities in the
                  > State of Texas. In the last five years SA has annexed over 50,000 rural
                  > county residents. The City only provides increased taxes for these
                  invaded
                  > citizens and provides little or no city services in return. San Antonio
                  > follows the path that CPS forges invades and annexes the rural regions
                  that
                  > CPS engulfs.
                  >
                  > We welcome any interest, need, question or requirements related to
                  renewable
                  > energy technologies. As a small family business we recognize it is an
                  > opportunity and a privilege to be of service. It's also a lot of fun!
                  >
                  > Steve Shepard
                  > SBT Designs
                  > 25840 IH-10 West #1
                  > Boerne, Texas 78006
                  > 210-698-7109
                  > FAX: 210-698-7147
                  > http://www.sbtdesigns.com
                  > sbtdesigns@...
                  >
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: "Jim Syzdek" <jksyzdek@...>
                  > To: <hreg@egroups.com>
                  > Sent: Friday, October 20, 2000 10:29 AM
                  > Subject: [hreg] Re: Solar economics
                  >
                  >
                  > > Kevin,
                  > > Hi. I'm a new member just picked up from the NASA Health and Safety
                  > > day at JSC. I read Jonathan's presentation and it looked really
                  > > good. He did a great job. I agree with you on your comment:
                  > >
                  > > >We get several calls a week from people wanting to lower their
                  > > >utility bills and I have to tell them that solar doesn't make sense
                  > > >if you are already connected to the grid.
                  > >
                  > > I have been looking at being an independent self sufficient
                  > > individual for years and how I can make this happen. My first steps
                  > > have been to reduce my existing use of energy as you suggested. I
                  > > have lowered my monthly electric bill by about $30-$40 a month just
                  > > by replacing most incadescents with flourescents, getting rid of
                  > > waterbeds with heater, using an electronic thermostat for the A/C,
                  > > using gas instead of electricity for clothes drying.
                  > > Solar electric is expensive at present, as we all are aware, but
                  > > there are little things that people in the cities can do to start the
                  > > transition to solar power. Some being: getting rid of incadescent
                  > > lights and use flourescents(these are getting very reasonably
                  > > priced), use solar screens on your windows, getting rid of electric
                  > > driers if you have gas, and use the electronic thermostats for A/C,
                  > > getting rid of phantom loads throughout your house, just to name a
                  > > few. Also, there are small solar powered devices out there that
                  > > don't cost too much, that will give them the feel good aspect of
                  > > using solar, such as solar powered outdoor lights with motion sensor,
                  > > solar radios, solar powered attic vent fans, solar powered lamps, and
                  > > many, many, more items. These items can be found in magazines just
                  > > about everywhere.
                  > >
                  > > Thanks,
                  > > Jim Syzdek
                  > >
                  > > --- In hreg@egroups.com, "Kevin L. Conlin" <kconlin@s...> wrote:
                  > > > Hi Jonathan, Liked your presentation on solar economics, sorry I
                  > > didn't see it in person in Fredricksburg. We get several calls a week
                  > > from people wanting to lower their utility bills and I have to tell
                  > > them that solar doesn't make sense if you are already connected to
                  > > the grid. From their reaction I'm sure this puts people off, but
                  > > it's the truth, and I'm not big on selling people expensive things
                  > > they really don't need. I usually tell them that they should conserve
                  > > the energy they are now buying rather than try to generate their own,
                  > > but most people are attracted to the quick fix and seem to think that
                  > > solar can offer a magic solution to their problems. The intuitive
                  > > friendliness people seem to have towards solar has created a lot of
                  > > opportunities for con artists in the past, and has left a lot of
                  > > disappointed customers in their wake. I wish I had a better answer
                  > > for them, but I have neither the time or patience to get into all
                  > > the economic details of renewables, conservation, social costs,
                  > > environmental impact, etc... This is why I chose to sell to industry,
                  > > not consumers. On the other hand, I don't want to discourage them
                  > > completely, so I really don't know the best way to handle these
                  > > inquiries other than to refer them to HREG, TX-SES or TREIA. Any
                  > > thoughts or suggestions? Does anyone in HREG want to talk to these
                  > > people, or have a better answer than I do? Keep up the good work!
                  > > regards, Kevin Conlin
                  > > > ----- Original Message -----
                  > > > From: Solarcraft
                  > > > To: Kevin L. Conlin
                  > > > Sent: Monday, October 09, 2000 10:25 AM
                  > > > Subject: Fw: [hreg] Economics of RE Part 2
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > ----- Original Message -----
                  > > > From: Jonathan Clemens
                  > > > To: hreg@egroups.com
                  > > > Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2000 1:14 PM
                  > > > Subject: [hreg] Economics of RE Part 2
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > HREG,
                  > > >
                  > > > FYI, Part 2 of 2 attached re: Economics of RE charts provided at
                  > > the Roundup. Part 2 contains the appendix items. The original
                  > > powerpoint file was split into two parts in order to comply with the
                  > > egroups maximum of 1MB sized messages.
                  > > >
                  > > > Jonathan
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • Ida G Morello
                  Please do not send any further info,,, Thanx, tmm ... From: Lisha Doucet To: Sent: Friday, October 20, 2000 7:40
                  Message 8 of 19 , Oct 21, 2000
                    Please do not send any further info,,, Thanx, tmm


                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: Lisha Doucet <lisha_doucet@...>
                    To: <hreg@egroups.com>
                    Sent: Friday, October 20, 2000 7:40 PM
                    Subject: Re: [hreg] Re: Solar economics


                    > Hi Becky,
                    >
                    > Can you post how you built your solar screens. I would like to do the same
                    > for my house.
                    >
                    > Thanks,
                    > Lisha Doucet
                    >
                    >
                    > >From: "Becky Merritt" <bmeritt@...>
                    > >Reply-To: hreg@egroups.com
                    > >To: <hreg@egroups.com>, <jksyzdek@...>
                    > >Subject: [hreg] Re: Solar economics
                    > >Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 11:05:56 -0500
                    > >
                    > >Jim,
                    > >
                    > >I agree with you that we need to reduce our existing use of energy. I
                    > >believe that the key to using solar energy successfully is to first
                    become
                    > >as energy efficient as possible. To that end, some other things to think
                    > >about are using landscaping to block the sun in warm months and let it
                    > >shine through in the cold month (deciduous trees, shrubs and vines, for
                    > >ex). Plants can be put to use to encourage good air circulation around a
                    > >home, too. Don't forget that a yard full of grass has a cooling effect.
                    > >
                    > >Building an arbor or a patio cover on the east or west side of the house
                    is
                    > >a good idea, too. My husband and I built an arbor on the east side,
                    shading
                    > >our living room windows and planted wisteria vines. Now, we don't even
                    need
                    > >window coverings on those windows. The living room is bright enough
                    during
                    > >the day that we don't need to turn on lights, either. It also keeps our
                    > >carpet and upholstery from fadiing.
                    > >
                    > >Remember to check seals around doors and windows, and add more insulation
                    > >in the attic if it is warranted. I have seen solar powered roof vents for
                    > >sale. I'm going to look into getting one for my garage. ( I already have
                    an
                    > >electric roof vent for the house)
                    > >
                    > >The solar sun screens are beneficial, as they block some of the sun's
                    > >energy before it enters the home. I made 14 screens for my house, and sav
                    ed
                    > >a lot of money by doing it myself. (The less expense, the quicker the
                    > >payoff time) I take the screens down in the cold months and put them back
                    > >up when it gets warm again.
                    > >
                    > >If you are just building a house, orientation is critical. A North facing
                    > >orientation is probably ideal. Remember, though, that you want it to face
                    > >due north, not magnetic north for maximum efficiency.
                    > >
                    > >These are just a few thoughts. I'm sure there are a lot more out there.
                    > >Good luck!
                    > >
                    > >Becky Merritt
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    > _________________________________________________________________________
                    > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
                    >
                    > Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
                    > http://profiles.msn.com
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • Ida G Morello
                    Do Not send me any further info.. Thanks, tmm ... From: Kevin L. Conlin To: Sent: Friday, October 20, 2000 6:42 PM
                    Message 9 of 19 , Oct 21, 2000
                      Do Not send me any further info.. Thanks, tmm


                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: Kevin L. Conlin <kconlin@...>
                      To: <hreg@egroups.com>
                      Sent: Friday, October 20, 2000 6:42 PM
                      Subject: Re: [hreg] Re: Solar economics


                      > Good for you, Becky, the passive solar approach you've taken can be
                      utilized
                      > to some degree by almost everyone in Texas.
                      > It may not be as exciting as using PV panels, but makes a lot of sense, is
                      > cost effective, and creates a more pleasant yard environment. We've done a
                      > lot of the same things on our home, including deciduous trees on the South
                      > side and enjoy lower utility bills as a result. We looked hard to find an
                      > energy efficient home to start with as well, and had the builder upgrade
                      the
                      > AC unit as well. One thing that I did learn is that a lot of the high
                      > efficiency AC units are built better than lower efficiency ones and seem
                      to
                      > last quite a bit longer with fewer maint and service problems. Good job.
                      > Regards, kevin
                      >
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > From: Becky Merritt <bmeritt@...>
                      > To: <hreg@egroups.com>; <jksyzdek@...>
                      > Sent: Friday, October 20, 2000 9:05 AM
                      > Subject: [hreg] Re: Solar economics
                      >
                      >
                      > > Jim,
                      > >
                      > > I agree with you that we need to reduce our existing use of energy. I
                      > believe that the key to using solar energy successfully is to first
                      become
                      > as energy efficient as possible. To that end, some other things to think
                      > about are using landscaping to block the sun in warm months and let it
                      shine
                      > through in the cold month (deciduous trees, shrubs and vines, for ex).
                      > Plants can be put to use to encourage good air circulation around a home,
                      > too. Don't forget that a yard full of grass has a cooling effect.
                      > >
                      > > Building an arbor or a patio cover on the east or west side of the house
                      > is a good idea, too. My husband and I built an arbor on the east side,
                      > shading our living room windows and planted wisteria vines. Now, we don't
                      > even need window coverings on those windows. The living room is bright
                      > enough during the day that we don't need to turn on lights, either. It
                      also
                      > keeps our carpet and upholstery from fadiing.
                      > >
                      > > Remember to check seals around doors and windows, and add more
                      insulation
                      > in the attic if it is warranted. I have seen solar powered roof vents for
                      > sale. I'm going to look into getting one for my garage. ( I already have
                      an
                      > electric roof vent for the house)
                      > >
                      > > The solar sun screens are beneficial, as they block some of the sun's
                      > energy before it enters the home. I made 14 screens for my house, and
                      saved
                      > a lot of money by doing it myself. (The less expense, the quicker the
                      payoff
                      > time) I take the screens down in the cold months and put them back up when
                      > it gets warm again.
                      > >
                      > > If you are just building a house, orientation is critical. A North
                      facing
                      > orientation is probably ideal. Remember, though, that you want it to face
                      > due north, not magnetic north for maximum efficiency.
                      > >
                      > > These are just a few thoughts. I'm sure there are a lot more out there.
                      > Good luck!
                      > >
                      > > Becky Merritt
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                    • Ida G Morello
                      Do not send me any further info.. Thanks.. tmm.. ... From: Jim Syzdek To: Sent: Friday, October 20, 2000 3:29 PM
                      Message 10 of 19 , Oct 21, 2000
                        Do not send me any further info.. Thanks.. tmm..


                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: Jim Syzdek <jksyzdek@...>
                        To: <hreg@egroups.com>
                        Sent: Friday, October 20, 2000 3:29 PM
                        Subject: [hreg] Re: Solar economics


                        > Kevin,
                        > Hi. I'm a new member just picked up from the NASA Health and Safety
                        > day at JSC. I read Jonathan's presentation and it looked really
                        > good. He did a great job. I agree with you on your comment:
                        >
                        > >We get several calls a week from people wanting to lower their
                        > >utility bills and I have to tell them that solar doesn't make sense
                        > >if you are already connected to the grid.
                        >
                        > I have been looking at being an independent self sufficient
                        > individual for years and how I can make this happen. My first steps
                        > have been to reduce my existing use of energy as you suggested. I
                        > have lowered my monthly electric bill by about $30-$40 a month just
                        > by replacing most incadescents with flourescents, getting rid of
                        > waterbeds with heater, using an electronic thermostat for the A/C,
                        > using gas instead of electricity for clothes drying.
                        > Solar electric is expensive at present, as we all are aware, but
                        > there are little things that people in the cities can do to start the
                        > transition to solar power. Some being: getting rid of incadescent
                        > lights and use flourescents(these are getting very reasonably
                        > priced), use solar screens on your windows, getting rid of electric
                        > driers if you have gas, and use the electronic thermostats for A/C,
                        > getting rid of phantom loads throughout your house, just to name a
                        > few. Also, there are small solar powered devices out there that
                        > don't cost too much, that will give them the feel good aspect of
                        > using solar, such as solar powered outdoor lights with motion sensor,
                        > solar radios, solar powered attic vent fans, solar powered lamps, and
                        > many, many, more items. These items can be found in magazines just
                        > about everywhere.
                        >
                        > Thanks,
                        > Jim Syzdek
                        >
                        > --- In hreg@egroups.com, "Kevin L. Conlin" <kconlin@s...> wrote:
                        > > Hi Jonathan, Liked your presentation on solar economics, sorry I
                        > didn't see it in person in Fredricksburg. We get several calls a week
                        > from people wanting to lower their utility bills and I have to tell
                        > them that solar doesn't make sense if you are already connected to
                        > the grid. From their reaction I'm sure this puts people off, but
                        > it's the truth, and I'm not big on selling people expensive things
                        > they really don't need. I usually tell them that they should conserve
                        > the energy they are now buying rather than try to generate their own,
                        > but most people are attracted to the quick fix and seem to think that
                        > solar can offer a magic solution to their problems. The intuitive
                        > friendliness people seem to have towards solar has created a lot of
                        > opportunities for con artists in the past, and has left a lot of
                        > disappointed customers in their wake. I wish I had a better answer
                        > for them, but I have neither the time or patience to get into all
                        > the economic details of renewables, conservation, social costs,
                        > environmental impact, etc... This is why I chose to sell to industry,
                        > not consumers. On the other hand, I don't want to discourage them
                        > completely, so I really don't know the best way to handle these
                        > inquiries other than to refer them to HREG, TX-SES or TREIA. Any
                        > thoughts or suggestions? Does anyone in HREG want to talk to these
                        > people, or have a better answer than I do? Keep up the good work!
                        > regards, Kevin Conlin
                        > > ----- Original Message -----
                        > > From: Solarcraft
                        > > To: Kevin L. Conlin
                        > > Sent: Monday, October 09, 2000 10:25 AM
                        > > Subject: Fw: [hreg] Economics of RE Part 2
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > ----- Original Message -----
                        > > From: Jonathan Clemens
                        > > To: hreg@egroups.com
                        > > Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2000 1:14 PM
                        > > Subject: [hreg] Economics of RE Part 2
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > HREG,
                        > >
                        > > FYI, Part 2 of 2 attached re: Economics of RE charts provided at
                        > the Roundup. Part 2 contains the appendix items. The original
                        > powerpoint file was split into two parts in order to comply with the
                        > egroups maximum of 1MB sized messages.
                        > >
                        > > Jonathan
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                      • Ida G Morello
                        Do not send me any further info.. Thanks, tmm.. ... From: Becky Merritt To: ; Sent: Friday,
                        Message 11 of 19 , Oct 21, 2000
                          Do not send me any further info.. Thanks, tmm..


                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: Becky Merritt <bmeritt@...>
                          To: <hreg@egroups.com>; <jksyzdek@...>
                          Sent: Friday, October 20, 2000 4:05 PM
                          Subject: [hreg] Re: Solar economics


                          > Jim,
                          >
                          > I agree with you that we need to reduce our existing use of energy. I
                          believe that the key to using solar energy successfully is to first become
                          as energy efficient as possible. To that end, some other things to think
                          about are using landscaping to block the sun in warm months and let it shine
                          through in the cold month (deciduous trees, shrubs and vines, for ex).
                          Plants can be put to use to encourage good air circulation around a home,
                          too. Don't forget that a yard full of grass has a cooling effect.
                          >
                          > Building an arbor or a patio cover on the east or west side of the house
                          is a good idea, too. My husband and I built an arbor on the east side,
                          shading our living room windows and planted wisteria vines. Now, we don't
                          even need window coverings on those windows. The living room is bright
                          enough during the day that we don't need to turn on lights, either. It also
                          keeps our carpet and upholstery from fadiing.
                          >
                          > Remember to check seals around doors and windows, and add more insulation
                          in the attic if it is warranted. I have seen solar powered roof vents for
                          sale. I'm going to look into getting one for my garage. ( I already have an
                          electric roof vent for the house)
                          >
                          > The solar sun screens are beneficial, as they block some of the sun's
                          energy before it enters the home. I made 14 screens for my house, and saved
                          a lot of money by doing it myself. (The less expense, the quicker the payoff
                          time) I take the screens down in the cold months and put them back up when
                          it gets warm again.
                          >
                          > If you are just building a house, orientation is critical. A North facing
                          orientation is probably ideal. Remember, though, that you want it to face
                          due north, not magnetic north for maximum efficiency.
                          >
                          > These are just a few thoughts. I'm sure there are a lot more out there.
                          Good luck!
                          >
                          > Becky Merritt
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                        • LENIO, JAMES A. (JIM) (JSC-DL4)
                          Please remove me too from your email distribution. Thanks for all the good info and insight. Jim ... From: Ida G Morello [mailto:igm@flash.net] Sent:
                          Message 12 of 19 , Oct 23, 2000
                            Please remove me too from your email distribution. Thanks for all the good
                            info and insight.



                            Jim




                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: Ida G Morello [mailto:igm@...]
                            Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2000 12:28 PM
                            To: hreg@egroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [hreg] Re: Solar economics


                            Do not send me any further info.. Thanks.. tmm..


                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: Jim Syzdek <jksyzdek@...>
                            To: <hreg@egroups.com>
                            Sent: Friday, October 20, 2000 3:29 PM
                            Subject: [hreg] Re: Solar economics


                            > Kevin,
                            > Hi. I'm a new member just picked up from the NASA Health and Safety
                            > day at JSC. I read Jonathan's presentation and it looked really
                            > good. He did a great job. I agree with you on your comment:
                            >
                            > >We get several calls a week from people wanting to lower their
                            > >utility bills and I have to tell them that solar doesn't make sense
                            > >if you are already connected to the grid.
                            >
                            > I have been looking at being an independent self sufficient
                            > individual for years and how I can make this happen. My first steps
                            > have been to reduce my existing use of energy as you suggested. I
                            > have lowered my monthly electric bill by about $30-$40 a month just
                            > by replacing most incadescents with flourescents, getting rid of
                            > waterbeds with heater, using an electronic thermostat for the A/C,
                            > using gas instead of electricity for clothes drying.
                            > Solar electric is expensive at present, as we all are aware, but
                            > there are little things that people in the cities can do to start the
                            > transition to solar power. Some being: getting rid of incadescent
                            > lights and use flourescents(these are getting very reasonably
                            > priced), use solar screens on your windows, getting rid of electric
                            > driers if you have gas, and use the electronic thermostats for A/C,
                            > getting rid of phantom loads throughout your house, just to name a
                            > few. Also, there are small solar powered devices out there that
                            > don't cost too much, that will give them the feel good aspect of
                            > using solar, such as solar powered outdoor lights with motion sensor,
                            > solar radios, solar powered attic vent fans, solar powered lamps, and
                            > many, many, more items. These items can be found in magazines just
                            > about everywhere.
                            >
                            > Thanks,
                            > Jim Syzdek
                            >
                            > --- In hreg@egroups.com, "Kevin L. Conlin" <kconlin@s...> wrote:
                            > > Hi Jonathan, Liked your presentation on solar economics, sorry I
                            > didn't see it in person in Fredricksburg. We get several calls a week
                            > from people wanting to lower their utility bills and I have to tell
                            > them that solar doesn't make sense if you are already connected to
                            > the grid. From their reaction I'm sure this puts people off, but
                            > it's the truth, and I'm not big on selling people expensive things
                            > they really don't need. I usually tell them that they should conserve
                            > the energy they are now buying rather than try to generate their own,
                            > but most people are attracted to the quick fix and seem to think that
                            > solar can offer a magic solution to their problems. The intuitive
                            > friendliness people seem to have towards solar has created a lot of
                            > opportunities for con artists in the past, and has left a lot of
                            > disappointed customers in their wake. I wish I had a better answer
                            > for them, but I have neither the time or patience to get into all
                            > the economic details of renewables, conservation, social costs,
                            > environmental impact, etc... This is why I chose to sell to industry,
                            > not consumers. On the other hand, I don't want to discourage them
                            > completely, so I really don't know the best way to handle these
                            > inquiries other than to refer them to HREG, TX-SES or TREIA. Any
                            > thoughts or suggestions? Does anyone in HREG want to talk to these
                            > people, or have a better answer than I do? Keep up the good work!
                            > regards, Kevin Conlin
                            > > ----- Original Message -----
                            > > From: Solarcraft
                            > > To: Kevin L. Conlin
                            > > Sent: Monday, October 09, 2000 10:25 AM
                            > > Subject: Fw: [hreg] Economics of RE Part 2
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > ----- Original Message -----
                            > > From: Jonathan Clemens
                            > > To: hreg@egroups.com
                            > > Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2000 1:14 PM
                            > > Subject: [hreg] Economics of RE Part 2
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > HREG,
                            > >
                            > > FYI, Part 2 of 2 attached re: Economics of RE charts provided at
                            > the Roundup. Part 2 contains the appendix items. The original
                            > powerpoint file was split into two parts in order to comply with the
                            > egroups maximum of 1MB sized messages.
                            > >
                            > > Jonathan
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                          • Marjorie N Wood
                            Maybe one thing all of us in regional groups could do would be to buy a huge batch of CFs at wholesale and sell them at that price to neighborhoods and
                            Message 13 of 19 , Oct 23, 2000
                              Maybe one thing all of us in regional groups could do would be to buy a
                              huge batch of CFs at wholesale and sell them at that price to
                              neighborhoods and members. Friday I went into a nice hardware and they
                              wanted $26 for a name brand compact fluorescent. I know we should be able
                              to do better than that.
                              Marge

                              On Fri, 20 Oct 2000 15:29:35 -0000 "Jim Syzdek" <jksyzdek@...>
                              writes:
                              > Kevin,
                              > Hi. I'm a new member just picked up from the NASA Health and
                              > Safety
                              > day at JSC. I read Jonathan's presentation and it looked really
                              > good. He did a great job. I agree with you on your comment:
                              >
                              > >We get several calls a week from people wanting to lower their
                              > >utility bills and I have to tell them that solar doesn't make sense
                              >
                              > >if you are already connected to the grid.
                              >
                              > I have been looking at being an independent self sufficient
                              > individual for years and how I can make this happen. My first steps
                              >
                              > have been to reduce my existing use of energy as you suggested. I
                              > have lowered my monthly electric bill by about $30-$40 a month just
                              > by replacing most incadescents with flourescents, getting rid of
                              > waterbeds with heater, using an electronic thermostat for the A/C,
                              > using gas instead of electricity for clothes drying.
                              > Solar electric is expensive at present, as we all are aware, but
                              > there are little things that people in the cities can do to start
                              > the
                              > transition to solar power. Some being: getting rid of incadescent
                              > lights and use flourescents(these are getting very reasonably
                              > priced), use solar screens on your windows, getting rid of electric
                              > driers if you have gas, and use the electronic thermostats for A/C,
                              > getting rid of phantom loads throughout your house, just to name a
                              > few. Also, there are small solar powered devices out there that
                              > don't cost too much, that will give them the feel good aspect of
                              > using solar, such as solar powered outdoor lights with motion
                              > sensor,
                              > solar radios, solar powered attic vent fans, solar powered lamps,
                              > and
                              > many, many, more items. These items can be found in magazines just
                              > about everywhere.
                              >
                              > Thanks,
                              > Jim Syzdek
                              >
                              > --- In hreg@egroups.com, "Kevin L. Conlin" <kconlin@s...> wrote:
                              > > Hi Jonathan, Liked your presentation on solar economics, sorry I
                              > didn't see it in person in Fredricksburg. We get several calls a
                              > week
                              > from people wanting to lower their utility bills and I have to tell
                              > them that solar doesn't make sense if you are already connected to
                              > the grid. From their reaction I'm sure this puts people off, but
                              > it's the truth, and I'm not big on selling people expensive things
                              > they really don't need. I usually tell them that they should
                              > conserve
                              > the energy they are now buying rather than try to generate their
                              > own,
                              > but most people are attracted to the quick fix and seem to think
                              > that
                              > solar can offer a magic solution to their problems. The intuitive
                              > friendliness people seem to have towards solar has created a lot of
                              > opportunities for con artists in the past, and has left a lot of
                              > disappointed customers in their wake. I wish I had a better answer
                              > for them, but I have neither the time or patience to get into all
                              > the economic details of renewables, conservation, social costs,
                              > environmental impact, etc... This is why I chose to sell to
                              > industry,
                              > not consumers. On the other hand, I don't want to discourage them
                              > completely, so I really don't know the best way to handle these
                              > inquiries other than to refer them to HREG, TX-SES or TREIA. Any
                              > thoughts or suggestions? Does anyone in HREG want to talk to these
                              > people, or have a better answer than I do? Keep up the good work!
                              >
                              > regards, Kevin Conlin
                              > > ----- Original Message -----
                              > > From: Solarcraft
                              > > To: Kevin L. Conlin
                              > > Sent: Monday, October 09, 2000 10:25 AM
                              > > Subject: Fw: [hreg] Economics of RE Part 2
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > ----- Original Message -----
                              > > From: Jonathan Clemens
                              > > To: hreg@egroups.com
                              > > Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2000 1:14 PM
                              > > Subject: [hreg] Economics of RE Part 2
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > HREG,
                              > >
                              > > FYI, Part 2 of 2 attached re: Economics of RE charts provided at
                              >
                              > the Roundup. Part 2 contains the appendix items. The original
                              > powerpoint file was split into two parts in order to comply with the
                              >
                              > egroups maximum of 1MB sized messages.
                              > >
                              > > Jonathan
                              >
                              >
                              > -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor
                              >
                              >
                              >
                            • Steve Stelzer
                              IKEA has very reasonably priced compact fluorescents. Check them out. ... From: Marjorie N Wood [mailto:othermother6@juno.com] Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000
                              Message 14 of 19 , Oct 23, 2000
                                IKEA has very reasonably priced compact fluorescents. Check them out.

                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: Marjorie N Wood [mailto:othermother6@...]
                                Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 1:44 PM
                                To: hreg@egroups.com
                                Subject: Re: [hreg] Re: Solar economics


                                Maybe one thing all of us in regional groups could do would be to buy a
                                huge batch of CFs at wholesale and sell them at that price to
                                neighborhoods and members. Friday I went into a nice hardware and they
                                wanted $26 for a name brand compact fluorescent. I know we should be able
                                to do better than that.
                                Marge

                                On Fri, 20 Oct 2000 15:29:35 -0000 "Jim Syzdek" <jksyzdek@...>
                                writes:
                                > Kevin,
                                > Hi. I'm a new member just picked up from the NASA Health and
                                > Safety
                                > day at JSC. I read Jonathan's presentation and it looked really
                                > good. He did a great job. I agree with you on your comment:
                                >
                                > >We get several calls a week from people wanting to lower their
                                > >utility bills and I have to tell them that solar doesn't make sense
                                >
                                > >if you are already connected to the grid.
                                >
                                > I have been looking at being an independent self sufficient
                                > individual for years and how I can make this happen. My first steps
                                >
                                > have been to reduce my existing use of energy as you suggested. I
                                > have lowered my monthly electric bill by about $30-$40 a month just
                                > by replacing most incadescents with flourescents, getting rid of
                                > waterbeds with heater, using an electronic thermostat for the A/C,
                                > using gas instead of electricity for clothes drying.
                                > Solar electric is expensive at present, as we all are aware, but
                                > there are little things that people in the cities can do to start
                                > the
                                > transition to solar power. Some being: getting rid of incadescent
                                > lights and use flourescents(these are getting very reasonably
                                > priced), use solar screens on your windows, getting rid of electric
                                > driers if you have gas, and use the electronic thermostats for A/C,
                                > getting rid of phantom loads throughout your house, just to name a
                                > few. Also, there are small solar powered devices out there that
                                > don't cost too much, that will give them the feel good aspect of
                                > using solar, such as solar powered outdoor lights with motion
                                > sensor,
                                > solar radios, solar powered attic vent fans, solar powered lamps,
                                > and
                                > many, many, more items. These items can be found in magazines just
                                > about everywhere.
                                >
                                > Thanks,
                                > Jim Syzdek
                                >
                                > --- In hreg@egroups.com, "Kevin L. Conlin" <kconlin@s...> wrote:
                                > > Hi Jonathan, Liked your presentation on solar economics, sorry I
                                > didn't see it in person in Fredricksburg. We get several calls a
                                > week
                                > from people wanting to lower their utility bills and I have to tell
                                > them that solar doesn't make sense if you are already connected to
                                > the grid. From their reaction I'm sure this puts people off, but
                                > it's the truth, and I'm not big on selling people expensive things
                                > they really don't need. I usually tell them that they should
                                > conserve
                                > the energy they are now buying rather than try to generate their
                                > own,
                                > but most people are attracted to the quick fix and seem to think
                                > that
                                > solar can offer a magic solution to their problems. The intuitive
                                > friendliness people seem to have towards solar has created a lot of
                                > opportunities for con artists in the past, and has left a lot of
                                > disappointed customers in their wake. I wish I had a better answer
                                > for them, but I have neither the time or patience to get into all
                                > the economic details of renewables, conservation, social costs,
                                > environmental impact, etc... This is why I chose to sell to
                                > industry,
                                > not consumers. On the other hand, I don't want to discourage them
                                > completely, so I really don't know the best way to handle these
                                > inquiries other than to refer them to HREG, TX-SES or TREIA. Any
                                > thoughts or suggestions? Does anyone in HREG want to talk to these
                                > people, or have a better answer than I do? Keep up the good work!
                                >
                                > regards, Kevin Conlin
                                > > ----- Original Message -----
                                > > From: Solarcraft
                                > > To: Kevin L. Conlin
                                > > Sent: Monday, October 09, 2000 10:25 AM
                                > > Subject: Fw: [hreg] Economics of RE Part 2
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > ----- Original Message -----
                                > > From: Jonathan Clemens
                                > > To: hreg@egroups.com
                                > > Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2000 1:14 PM
                                > > Subject: [hreg] Economics of RE Part 2
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > HREG,
                                > >
                                > > FYI, Part 2 of 2 attached re: Economics of RE charts provided at
                                >
                                > the Roundup. Part 2 contains the appendix items. The original
                                > powerpoint file was split into two parts in order to comply with the
                                >
                                > egroups maximum of 1MB sized messages.
                                > >
                                > > Jonathan
                                >
                                >
                                > -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor
                                >
                                >
                                >
                              • Dmeengr@aol.com
                                Please discontinue using my old e-mail address dmeengr@aol.com You may reach me at dmeengr@nwol.net David
                                Message 15 of 19 , Oct 25, 2000
                                  Please discontinue using my old e-mail address

                                  dmeengr@...

                                  You may reach me at

                                  dmeengr@...

                                  David
                                • Jim & Kathi Syzdek
                                  Marjorie, Home Depot has the swirling type of ligjts for around $8 -$9. These lights use 15W for 60W equivalent light. They also have 20W size for 75W
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Oct 26, 2000
                                    Marjorie,
                                    Home Depot has the swirling type of ligjts for around $8 -$9. These
                                    lights use 15W for 60W equivalent light. They also have 20W size for 75W
                                    equivalent light. They fit in the same space as a regular incadescent light
                                    bulb in most applications. I have seen these same CFs at other stores also.
                                    Jim


                                    >From: Marjorie N Wood <othermother6@...>
                                    >Reply-To: hreg@egroups.com
                                    >To: hreg@egroups.com
                                    >Subject: Re: [hreg] Re: Solar economics
                                    >Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 13:43:35 -0500
                                    >
                                    >Maybe one thing all of us in regional groups could do would be to buy a
                                    >huge batch of CFs at wholesale and sell them at that price to
                                    >neighborhoods and members. Friday I went into a nice hardware and they
                                    >wanted $26 for a name brand compact fluorescent. I know we should be able
                                    >to do better than that.
                                    >Marge
                                    >
                                    >On Fri, 20 Oct 2000 15:29:35 -0000 "Jim Syzdek" <jksyzdek@...>
                                    >writes:
                                    > > Kevin,
                                    > > Hi. I'm a new member just picked up from the NASA Health and
                                    > > Safety
                                    > > day at JSC. I read Jonathan's presentation and it looked really
                                    > > good. He did a great job. I agree with you on your comment:
                                    > >
                                    > > >We get several calls a week from people wanting to lower their
                                    > > >utility bills and I have to tell them that solar doesn't make sense
                                    > >
                                    > > >if you are already connected to the grid.
                                    > >
                                    > > I have been looking at being an independent self sufficient
                                    > > individual for years and how I can make this happen. My first steps
                                    > >
                                    > > have been to reduce my existing use of energy as you suggested. I
                                    > > have lowered my monthly electric bill by about $30-$40 a month just
                                    > > by replacing most incadescents with flourescents, getting rid of
                                    > > waterbeds with heater, using an electronic thermostat for the A/C,
                                    > > using gas instead of electricity for clothes drying.
                                    > > Solar electric is expensive at present, as we all are aware, but
                                    > > there are little things that people in the cities can do to start
                                    > > the
                                    > > transition to solar power. Some being: getting rid of incadescent
                                    > > lights and use flourescents(these are getting very reasonably
                                    > > priced), use solar screens on your windows, getting rid of electric
                                    > > driers if you have gas, and use the electronic thermostats for A/C,
                                    > > getting rid of phantom loads throughout your house, just to name a
                                    > > few. Also, there are small solar powered devices out there that
                                    > > don't cost too much, that will give them the feel good aspect of
                                    > > using solar, such as solar powered outdoor lights with motion
                                    > > sensor,
                                    > > solar radios, solar powered attic vent fans, solar powered lamps,
                                    > > and
                                    > > many, many, more items. These items can be found in magazines just
                                    > > about everywhere.
                                    > >
                                    > > Thanks,
                                    > > Jim Syzdek
                                    > >
                                    > > --- In hreg@egroups.com, "Kevin L. Conlin" <kconlin@s...> wrote:
                                    > > > Hi Jonathan, Liked your presentation on solar economics, sorry I
                                    > > didn't see it in person in Fredricksburg. We get several calls a
                                    > > week
                                    > > from people wanting to lower their utility bills and I have to tell
                                    > > them that solar doesn't make sense if you are already connected to
                                    > > the grid. From their reaction I'm sure this puts people off, but
                                    > > it's the truth, and I'm not big on selling people expensive things
                                    > > they really don't need. I usually tell them that they should
                                    > > conserve
                                    > > the energy they are now buying rather than try to generate their
                                    > > own,
                                    > > but most people are attracted to the quick fix and seem to think
                                    > > that
                                    > > solar can offer a magic solution to their problems. The intuitive
                                    > > friendliness people seem to have towards solar has created a lot of
                                    > > opportunities for con artists in the past, and has left a lot of
                                    > > disappointed customers in their wake. I wish I had a better answer
                                    > > for them, but I have neither the time or patience to get into all
                                    > > the economic details of renewables, conservation, social costs,
                                    > > environmental impact, etc... This is why I chose to sell to
                                    > > industry,
                                    > > not consumers. On the other hand, I don't want to discourage them
                                    > > completely, so I really don't know the best way to handle these
                                    > > inquiries other than to refer them to HREG, TX-SES or TREIA. Any
                                    > > thoughts or suggestions? Does anyone in HREG want to talk to these
                                    > > people, or have a better answer than I do? Keep up the good work!
                                    > >
                                    > > regards, Kevin Conlin
                                    > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                    > > > From: Solarcraft
                                    > > > To: Kevin L. Conlin
                                    > > > Sent: Monday, October 09, 2000 10:25 AM
                                    > > > Subject: Fw: [hreg] Economics of RE Part 2
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                    > > > From: Jonathan Clemens
                                    > > > To: hreg@egroups.com
                                    > > > Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2000 1:14 PM
                                    > > > Subject: [hreg] Economics of RE Part 2
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > HREG,
                                    > > >
                                    > > > FYI, Part 2 of 2 attached re: Economics of RE charts provided at
                                    > >
                                    > > the Roundup. Part 2 contains the appendix items. The original
                                    > > powerpoint file was split into two parts in order to comply with the
                                    > >
                                    > > egroups maximum of 1MB sized messages.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Jonathan
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >

                                    _________________________________________________________________________
                                    Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com

                                    Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
                                    http://profiles.msn.com
                                  • Marjorie N Wood
                                    Thanks! I will go take a look. Marge On Thu, 26 Oct 2000 10:30:07 CDT Jim & Kathi Syzdek
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Oct 26, 2000
                                      Thanks! I will go take a look. Marge

                                      On Thu, 26 Oct 2000 10:30:07 CDT "Jim & Kathi Syzdek"
                                      <jksyzdek@...> writes:
                                      > Marjorie,
                                      > Home Depot has the swirling type of ligjts for around $8 -$9.
                                      > These
                                      > lights use 15W for 60W equivalent light. They also have 20W size
                                      > for 75W
                                      > equivalent light. They fit in the same space as a regular
                                      > incadescent light
                                      > bulb in most applications. I have seen these same CFs at other
                                      > stores also.
                                      > Jim
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > >From: Marjorie N Wood <othermother6@...>
                                      > >Reply-To: hreg@egroups.com
                                      > >To: hreg@egroups.com
                                      > >Subject: Re: [hreg] Re: Solar economics
                                      > >Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 13:43:35 -0500
                                      > >
                                      > >Maybe one thing all of us in regional groups could do would be to
                                      > buy a
                                      > >huge batch of CFs at wholesale and sell them at that price to
                                      > >neighborhoods and members. Friday I went into a nice hardware and
                                      > they
                                      > >wanted $26 for a name brand compact fluorescent. I know we should
                                      > be able
                                      > >to do better than that.
                                      > >Marge
                                      > >
                                      > >On Fri, 20 Oct 2000 15:29:35 -0000 "Jim Syzdek"
                                      > <jksyzdek@...>
                                      > >writes:
                                      > > > Kevin,
                                      > > > Hi. I'm a new member just picked up from the NASA Health and
                                      > > > Safety
                                      > > > day at JSC. I read Jonathan's presentation and it looked really
                                      > > > good. He did a great job. I agree with you on your comment:
                                      > > >
                                      > > > >We get several calls a week from people wanting to lower their
                                      > > > >utility bills and I have to tell them that solar doesn't make
                                      > sense
                                      > > >
                                      > > > >if you are already connected to the grid.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > I have been looking at being an independent self sufficient
                                      > > > individual for years and how I can make this happen. My first
                                      > steps
                                      > > >
                                      > > > have been to reduce my existing use of energy as you suggested.
                                      > I
                                      > > > have lowered my monthly electric bill by about $30-$40 a month
                                      > just
                                      > > > by replacing most incadescents with flourescents, getting rid of
                                      > > > waterbeds with heater, using an electronic thermostat for the
                                      > A/C,
                                      > > > using gas instead of electricity for clothes drying.
                                      > > > Solar electric is expensive at present, as we all are aware,
                                      > but
                                      > > > there are little things that people in the cities can do to
                                      > start
                                      > > > the
                                      > > > transition to solar power. Some being: getting rid of
                                      > incadescent
                                      > > > lights and use flourescents(these are getting very reasonably
                                      > > > priced), use solar screens on your windows, getting rid of
                                      > electric
                                      > > > driers if you have gas, and use the electronic thermostats for
                                      > A/C,
                                      > > > getting rid of phantom loads throughout your house, just to name
                                      > a
                                      > > > few. Also, there are small solar powered devices out there that
                                      > > > don't cost too much, that will give them the feel good aspect of
                                      > > > using solar, such as solar powered outdoor lights with motion
                                      > > > sensor,
                                      > > > solar radios, solar powered attic vent fans, solar powered
                                      > lamps,
                                      > > > and
                                      > > > many, many, more items. These items can be found in magazines
                                      > just
                                      > > > about everywhere.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Thanks,
                                      > > > Jim Syzdek
                                      > > >
                                      > > > --- In hreg@egroups.com, "Kevin L. Conlin" <kconlin@s...> wrote:
                                      > > > > Hi Jonathan, Liked your presentation on solar economics,
                                      > sorry I
                                      > > > didn't see it in person in Fredricksburg. We get several calls a
                                      > > > week
                                      > > > from people wanting to lower their utility bills and I have to
                                      > tell
                                      > > > them that solar doesn't make sense if you are already connected
                                      > to
                                      > > > the grid. From their reaction I'm sure this puts people off,
                                      > but
                                      > > > it's the truth, and I'm not big on selling people expensive
                                      > things
                                      > > > they really don't need. I usually tell them that they should
                                      > > > conserve
                                      > > > the energy they are now buying rather than try to generate their
                                      > > > own,
                                      > > > but most people are attracted to the quick fix and seem to think
                                      > > > that
                                      > > > solar can offer a magic solution to their problems. The
                                      > intuitive
                                      > > > friendliness people seem to have towards solar has created a lot
                                      > of
                                      > > > opportunities for con artists in the past, and has left a lot of
                                      > > > disappointed customers in their wake. I wish I had a better
                                      > answer
                                      > > > for them, but I have neither the time or patience to get into
                                      > all
                                      > > > the economic details of renewables, conservation, social costs,
                                      > > > environmental impact, etc... This is why I chose to sell to
                                      > > > industry,
                                      > > > not consumers. On the other hand, I don't want to discourage
                                      > them
                                      > > > completely, so I really don't know the best way to handle these
                                      > > > inquiries other than to refer them to HREG, TX-SES or TREIA.
                                      > Any
                                      > > > thoughts or suggestions? Does anyone in HREG want to talk to
                                      > these
                                      > > > people, or have a better answer than I do? Keep up the good
                                      > work!
                                      > > >
                                      > > > regards, Kevin Conlin
                                      > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                      > > > > From: Solarcraft
                                      > > > > To: Kevin L. Conlin
                                      > > > > Sent: Monday, October 09, 2000 10:25 AM
                                      > > > > Subject: Fw: [hreg] Economics of RE Part 2
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                      > > > > From: Jonathan Clemens
                                      > > > > To: hreg@egroups.com
                                      > > > > Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2000 1:14 PM
                                      > > > > Subject: [hreg] Economics of RE Part 2
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > HREG,
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > FYI, Part 2 of 2 attached re: Economics of RE charts
                                      > provided at
                                      > > >
                                      > > > the Roundup. Part 2 contains the appendix items. The original
                                      > > > powerpoint file was split into two parts in order to comply with
                                      > the
                                      > > >
                                      > > > egroups maximum of 1MB sized messages.
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Jonathan
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      _________________________________________________________________________
                                      > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
                                      > http://www.hotmail.com
                                      >
                                      > Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
                                      > http://profiles.msn.com
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                    Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.