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Solar economics

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  • Kevin L. Conlin
    Hi Jonathan, Liked your presentation on solar economics, sorry I didn t see it in person in Fredricksburg. We get several calls a week from people wanting to
    Message 1 of 19 , Oct 9, 2000
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      Hi Jonathan,  Liked your presentation on solar economics, sorry I didn't see it in person in Fredricksburg. We get several calls a week from people wanting to lower their utility bills and I have to tell them that solar doesn't make sense if you are already connected to the grid.  From their reaction I'm sure this puts people off, but it's the truth, and I'm not big on selling people expensive things they really don't need. I usually tell them that they should conserve the energy they are now buying rather than try to generate their own, but most people are attracted to the quick fix and seem to think that solar can offer a magic solution to their problems. The intuitive friendliness people seem to have towards solar has created a lot of opportunities for con artists in the past, and has left a lot of disappointed customers in their wake. I wish I had a better answer for them,  but I have neither the time or patience to get into all the economic details of renewables, conservation, social costs, environmental impact, etc... This is why I chose to sell to industry, not consumers.  On the other hand, I don't want to discourage them completely,  so I really don't know the best way to handle these inquiries other than to refer them to HREG, TX-SES or TREIA.  Any thoughts or suggestions?  Does anyone in HREG want to talk to these people, or have a better answer than I do?  Keep up the good work!   regards,  Kevin Conlin
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Monday, October 09, 2000 10:25 AM
      Subject: Fw: [hreg] Economics of RE Part 2

       
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2000 1:14 PM
      Subject: [hreg] Economics of RE Part 2

      HREG,
       
      FYI, Part 2 of 2 attached re: Economics of RE charts provided at the Roundup.  Part 2 contains the appendix items.  The original powerpoint file was split into two parts in order to comply with the egroups maximum of 1MB sized messages.
       
      Jonathan
    • achman@houston.rr.com
      Hi All ! Jonathan and Kevin really laid it all out splendidly. Thanks to both of you. I would offer that a great deal of solar design is not solar at all.
      Message 2 of 19 , Oct 10, 2000
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        Hi All !
        Jonathan and Kevin really laid it all out splendidly. Thanks to both of you.
         
        I would offer that a great deal of solar design is not "solar" at all. The whole term is a poor misnomer... especially for residential applications. What we are really talking about is what Victor Olgyay called "Design With Climate" back in the 1960's. The best thing the end use consumer can do for themself is to understand the relationships between climate, site, building and comfort. There is not only a wonderful dynamic in all that, there is also a friendly and intuitive magic about it. It even makes common sense.
         
        It is interesting to note that, roughly speaking, the price of renewable "solar" devices drops by 1/2 half every 10 years while the efficiency doubles in the same period.
         
        Thanks again,
        Leonard
        ----- Original Message -----
        To: hreg
        Sent: Monday, October 09, 2000 4:27 PM
        Subject: [hreg] Solar economics

        Hi Jonathan,  Liked your presentation on solar economics, sorry I didn't see it in person in Fredricksburg. We get several calls a week from people wanting to lower their utility bills and I have to tell them that solar doesn't make sense if you are already connected to the grid.  From their reaction I'm sure this puts people off, but it's the truth, and I'm not big on selling people expensive things they really don't need. I usually tell them that they should conserve the energy they are now buying rather than try to generate their own, but most people are attracted to the quick fix and seem to think that solar can offer a magic solution to their problems. The intuitive friendliness people seem to have towards solar has created a lot of opportunities for con artists in the past, and has left a lot of disappointed customers in their wake. I wish I had a better answer for them,  but I have neither the time or patience to get into all the economic details of renewables, conservation, social costs, environmental impact, etc... This is why I chose to sell to industry, not consumers.  On the other hand, I don't want to discourage them completely,  so I really don't know the best way to handle these inquiries other than to refer them to HREG, TX-SES or TREIA.  Any thoughts or suggestions?  Does anyone in HREG want to talk to these people, or have a better answer than I do?  Keep up the good work!   regards,  Kevin Conlin
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Monday, October 09, 2000 10:25 AM
        Subject: Fw: [hreg] Economics of RE Part 2

         
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2000 1:14 PM
        Subject: [hreg] Economics of RE Part 2

        HREG,
         
        FYI, Part 2 of 2 attached re: Economics of RE charts provided at the Roundup.  Part 2 contains the appendix items.  The original powerpoint file was split into two parts in order to comply with the egroups maximum of 1MB sized messages.
         
        Jonathan
      • Jim Syzdek
        Kevin, Hi. I m a new member just picked up from the NASA Health and Safety day at JSC. I read Jonathan s presentation and it looked really ... I have been
        Message 3 of 19 , Oct 20, 2000
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          Kevin,
          Hi. I'm a new member just picked up from the NASA Health and Safety
          day at JSC. I read Jonathan's presentation and it looked really
          good. He did a great job. I agree with you on your comment:

          >We get several calls a week from people wanting to lower their
          >utility bills and I have to tell them that solar doesn't make sense
          >if you are already connected to the grid.

          I have been looking at being an independent self sufficient
          individual for years and how I can make this happen. My first steps
          have been to reduce my existing use of energy as you suggested. I
          have lowered my monthly electric bill by about $30-$40 a month just
          by replacing most incadescents with flourescents, getting rid of
          waterbeds with heater, using an electronic thermostat for the A/C,
          using gas instead of electricity for clothes drying.
          Solar electric is expensive at present, as we all are aware, but
          there are little things that people in the cities can do to start the
          transition to solar power. Some being: getting rid of incadescent
          lights and use flourescents(these are getting very reasonably
          priced), use solar screens on your windows, getting rid of electric
          driers if you have gas, and use the electronic thermostats for A/C,
          getting rid of phantom loads throughout your house, just to name a
          few. Also, there are small solar powered devices out there that
          don't cost too much, that will give them the feel good aspect of
          using solar, such as solar powered outdoor lights with motion sensor,
          solar radios, solar powered attic vent fans, solar powered lamps, and
          many, many, more items. These items can be found in magazines just
          about everywhere.

          Thanks,
          Jim Syzdek

          --- In hreg@egroups.com, "Kevin L. Conlin" <kconlin@s...> wrote:
          > Hi Jonathan, Liked your presentation on solar economics, sorry I
          didn't see it in person in Fredricksburg. We get several calls a week
          from people wanting to lower their utility bills and I have to tell
          them that solar doesn't make sense if you are already connected to
          the grid. From their reaction I'm sure this puts people off, but
          it's the truth, and I'm not big on selling people expensive things
          they really don't need. I usually tell them that they should conserve
          the energy they are now buying rather than try to generate their own,
          but most people are attracted to the quick fix and seem to think that
          solar can offer a magic solution to their problems. The intuitive
          friendliness people seem to have towards solar has created a lot of
          opportunities for con artists in the past, and has left a lot of
          disappointed customers in their wake. I wish I had a better answer
          for them, but I have neither the time or patience to get into all
          the economic details of renewables, conservation, social costs,
          environmental impact, etc... This is why I chose to sell to industry,
          not consumers. On the other hand, I don't want to discourage them
          completely, so I really don't know the best way to handle these
          inquiries other than to refer them to HREG, TX-SES or TREIA. Any
          thoughts or suggestions? Does anyone in HREG want to talk to these
          people, or have a better answer than I do? Keep up the good work!
          regards, Kevin Conlin
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: Solarcraft
          > To: Kevin L. Conlin
          > Sent: Monday, October 09, 2000 10:25 AM
          > Subject: Fw: [hreg] Economics of RE Part 2
          >
          >
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: Jonathan Clemens
          > To: hreg@egroups.com
          > Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2000 1:14 PM
          > Subject: [hreg] Economics of RE Part 2
          >
          >
          > HREG,
          >
          > FYI, Part 2 of 2 attached re: Economics of RE charts provided at
          the Roundup. Part 2 contains the appendix items. The original
          powerpoint file was split into two parts in order to comply with the
          egroups maximum of 1MB sized messages.
          >
          > Jonathan
        • Steve Shepard
          If Mr. Conlin doesn t have time or care to communicate with potential interests in solar then please allow me to volunteer our time and efforts. We enjoy the
          Message 4 of 19 , Oct 20, 2000
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            If Mr. Conlin doesn't have time or care to communicate with potential
            interests in solar then please allow me to volunteer our time and efforts.

            We enjoy the opportunity to speak with new users and potential new users of
            renewable energy technologies. Our motivation is economic to be sure but
            our company mission is also based on empowering our customers with the
            ability to generate their own power, become more self sufficient, be more
            ecological consumers and conserve our country's resources. This is a
            powerful desire for us as individuals and as a small business.

            It is also bonus to us that we also create competition for the government
            owned and operated electric utility monopolies that operate in our region.
            City Public Service (CPS)functions as an annexation scout for the City of
            San Antonio. CPS is aggressively branching out, marketing and attempting to
            providing service to rural regions prior to electric utility deregulation
            which is scheduled for 2002.

            San Antonio is one of the most aggressive annexation municipalities in the
            State of Texas. In the last five years SA has annexed over 50,000 rural
            county residents. The City only provides increased taxes for these invaded
            citizens and provides little or no city services in return. San Antonio
            follows the path that CPS forges invades and annexes the rural regions that
            CPS engulfs.

            We welcome any interest, need, question or requirements related to renewable
            energy technologies. As a small family business we recognize it is an
            opportunity and a privilege to be of service. It's also a lot of fun!

            Steve Shepard
            SBT Designs
            25840 IH-10 West #1
            Boerne, Texas 78006
            210-698-7109
            FAX: 210-698-7147
            http://www.sbtdesigns.com
            sbtdesigns@...

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Jim Syzdek" <jksyzdek@...>
            To: <hreg@egroups.com>
            Sent: Friday, October 20, 2000 10:29 AM
            Subject: [hreg] Re: Solar economics


            > Kevin,
            > Hi. I'm a new member just picked up from the NASA Health and Safety
            > day at JSC. I read Jonathan's presentation and it looked really
            > good. He did a great job. I agree with you on your comment:
            >
            > >We get several calls a week from people wanting to lower their
            > >utility bills and I have to tell them that solar doesn't make sense
            > >if you are already connected to the grid.
            >
            > I have been looking at being an independent self sufficient
            > individual for years and how I can make this happen. My first steps
            > have been to reduce my existing use of energy as you suggested. I
            > have lowered my monthly electric bill by about $30-$40 a month just
            > by replacing most incadescents with flourescents, getting rid of
            > waterbeds with heater, using an electronic thermostat for the A/C,
            > using gas instead of electricity for clothes drying.
            > Solar electric is expensive at present, as we all are aware, but
            > there are little things that people in the cities can do to start the
            > transition to solar power. Some being: getting rid of incadescent
            > lights and use flourescents(these are getting very reasonably
            > priced), use solar screens on your windows, getting rid of electric
            > driers if you have gas, and use the electronic thermostats for A/C,
            > getting rid of phantom loads throughout your house, just to name a
            > few. Also, there are small solar powered devices out there that
            > don't cost too much, that will give them the feel good aspect of
            > using solar, such as solar powered outdoor lights with motion sensor,
            > solar radios, solar powered attic vent fans, solar powered lamps, and
            > many, many, more items. These items can be found in magazines just
            > about everywhere.
            >
            > Thanks,
            > Jim Syzdek
            >
            > --- In hreg@egroups.com, "Kevin L. Conlin" <kconlin@s...> wrote:
            > > Hi Jonathan, Liked your presentation on solar economics, sorry I
            > didn't see it in person in Fredricksburg. We get several calls a week
            > from people wanting to lower their utility bills and I have to tell
            > them that solar doesn't make sense if you are already connected to
            > the grid. From their reaction I'm sure this puts people off, but
            > it's the truth, and I'm not big on selling people expensive things
            > they really don't need. I usually tell them that they should conserve
            > the energy they are now buying rather than try to generate their own,
            > but most people are attracted to the quick fix and seem to think that
            > solar can offer a magic solution to their problems. The intuitive
            > friendliness people seem to have towards solar has created a lot of
            > opportunities for con artists in the past, and has left a lot of
            > disappointed customers in their wake. I wish I had a better answer
            > for them, but I have neither the time or patience to get into all
            > the economic details of renewables, conservation, social costs,
            > environmental impact, etc... This is why I chose to sell to industry,
            > not consumers. On the other hand, I don't want to discourage them
            > completely, so I really don't know the best way to handle these
            > inquiries other than to refer them to HREG, TX-SES or TREIA. Any
            > thoughts or suggestions? Does anyone in HREG want to talk to these
            > people, or have a better answer than I do? Keep up the good work!
            > regards, Kevin Conlin
            > > ----- Original Message -----
            > > From: Solarcraft
            > > To: Kevin L. Conlin
            > > Sent: Monday, October 09, 2000 10:25 AM
            > > Subject: Fw: [hreg] Economics of RE Part 2
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > ----- Original Message -----
            > > From: Jonathan Clemens
            > > To: hreg@egroups.com
            > > Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2000 1:14 PM
            > > Subject: [hreg] Economics of RE Part 2
            > >
            > >
            > > HREG,
            > >
            > > FYI, Part 2 of 2 attached re: Economics of RE charts provided at
            > the Roundup. Part 2 contains the appendix items. The original
            > powerpoint file was split into two parts in order to comply with the
            > egroups maximum of 1MB sized messages.
            > >
            > > Jonathan
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
          • Becky Merritt
            Jim, I agree with you that we need to reduce our existing use of energy. I believe that the key to using solar energy successfully is to first become as
            Message 5 of 19 , Oct 20, 2000
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              Jim,

              I agree with you that we need to reduce our existing use of energy. I believe that the key to using solar energy successfully is to first become as energy efficient as possible. To that end, some other things to think about are using landscaping to block the sun in warm months and let it shine through in the cold month (deciduous trees, shrubs and vines, for ex). Plants can be put to use to encourage good air circulation around a home, too. Don't forget that a yard full of grass has a cooling effect.

              Building an arbor or a patio cover on the east or west side of the house is a good idea, too. My husband and I built an arbor on the east side, shading our living room windows and planted wisteria vines. Now, we don't even need window coverings on those windows. The living room is bright enough during the day that we don't need to turn on lights, either. It also keeps our carpet and upholstery from fadiing.

              Remember to check seals around doors and windows, and add more insulation in the attic if it is warranted. I have seen solar powered roof vents for sale. I'm going to look into getting one for my garage. ( I already have an electric roof vent for the house)

              The solar sun screens are beneficial, as they block some of the sun's energy before it enters the home. I made 14 screens for my house, and saved a lot of money by doing it myself. (The less expense, the quicker the payoff time) I take the screens down in the cold months and put them back up when it gets warm again.

              If you are just building a house, orientation is critical. A North facing orientation is probably ideal. Remember, though, that you want it to face due north, not magnetic north for maximum efficiency.

              These are just a few thoughts. I'm sure there are a lot more out there. Good luck!

              Becky Merritt
            • Kevin L. Conlin
              Hi Jim , I agree with your approach, you ve done the sensible things that make economic sense, and although they re not solar per se, the first step in
              Message 6 of 19 , Oct 20, 2000
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                Hi Jim , I agree with your approach, you've done the sensible things that
                make economic sense, and although they're not solar per se, the first step
                in utilizing solar has ALWAYS been to reduce your load. This applies to my
                industrial customers as well.
                Many of them have learned that by cycling certain loads and conserving power
                they can reduce the solar array by a factor of 5 or 10. This might mean a
                smaller solar system, but lots more of them.
                A solar powered attic vent fan is a very good example of how a small solar
                appliance can reduce the load on a much larger one - the air conditioner.
                The solar vent fan in Fredricksburg was decent quality, but a lot of solar
                gizmo's are inherently poor quality, comparable to toys. When you buy solar
                landscape lights and such you will probably be disappointed in the poor
                light output compared to std. landscape lighting. Most of them fail within
                a year or two, and I am convinced they build them knowing the American
                consumer is somewhat tolerant of poor quality products and seldom exercises
                his warranty rights on products inder $100. Maybe I'm getting cynical in my
                old age, but it disappoints me to see the constant stream of hype and
                marketing bs that accompanies most solar products. The fact is few of them
                perform to the standards we hold other products to, and most of them exploit
                the public's natural friendliness toward solar energy.

                Don't take my comments wrong, you've done a good job in reducing your
                consumption in a sensible way, just be careful in what solar products you
                buy, and make sure it is for the right reason. Thanks for your input. Best
                regards, Kevin

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Jim Syzdek <jksyzdek@...>
                To: <hreg@egroups.com>
                Sent: Friday, October 20, 2000 8:29 AM
                Subject: [hreg] Re: Solar economics


                > Kevin,
                > Hi. I'm a new member just picked up from the NASA Health and Safety
                > day at JSC. I read Jonathan's presentation and it looked really
                > good. He did a great job. I agree with you on your comment:
                >
                > >We get several calls a week from people wanting to lower their
                > >utility bills and I have to tell them that solar doesn't make sense
                > >if you are already connected to the grid.
                >
                > I have been looking at being an independent self sufficient
                > individual for years and how I can make this happen. My first steps
                > have been to reduce my existing use of energy as you suggested. I
                > have lowered my monthly electric bill by about $30-$40 a month just
                > by replacing most incadescents with flourescents, getting rid of
                > waterbeds with heater, using an electronic thermostat for the A/C,
                > using gas instead of electricity for clothes drying.
                > Solar electric is expensive at present, as we all are aware, but
                > there are little things that people in the cities can do to start the
                > transition to solar power. Some being: getting rid of incadescent
                > lights and use flourescents(these are getting very reasonably
                > priced), use solar screens on your windows, getting rid of electric
                > driers if you have gas, and use the electronic thermostats for A/C,
                > getting rid of phantom loads throughout your house, just to name a
                > few. Also, there are small solar powered devices out there that
                > don't cost too much, that will give them the feel good aspect of
                > using solar, such as solar powered outdoor lights with motion sensor,
                > solar radios, solar powered attic vent fans, solar powered lamps, and
                > many, many, more items. These items can be found in magazines just
                > about everywhere.
                >
                > Thanks,
                > Jim Syzdek
                >
                > --- In hreg@egroups.com, "Kevin L. Conlin" <kconlin@s...> wrote:
                > > Hi Jonathan, Liked your presentation on solar economics, sorry I
                > didn't see it in person in Fredricksburg. We get several calls a week
                > from people wanting to lower their utility bills and I have to tell
                > them that solar doesn't make sense if you are already connected to
                > the grid. From their reaction I'm sure this puts people off, but
                > it's the truth, and I'm not big on selling people expensive things
                > they really don't need. I usually tell them that they should conserve
                > the energy they are now buying rather than try to generate their own,
                > but most people are attracted to the quick fix and seem to think that
                > solar can offer a magic solution to their problems. The intuitive
                > friendliness people seem to have towards solar has created a lot of
                > opportunities for con artists in the past, and has left a lot of
                > disappointed customers in their wake. I wish I had a better answer
                > for them, but I have neither the time or patience to get into all
                > the economic details of renewables, conservation, social costs,
                > environmental impact, etc... This is why I chose to sell to industry,
                > not consumers. On the other hand, I don't want to discourage them
                > completely, so I really don't know the best way to handle these
                > inquiries other than to refer them to HREG, TX-SES or TREIA. Any
                > thoughts or suggestions? Does anyone in HREG want to talk to these
                > people, or have a better answer than I do? Keep up the good work!
                > regards, Kevin Conlin
                > > ----- Original Message -----
                > > From: Solarcraft
                > > To: Kevin L. Conlin
                > > Sent: Monday, October 09, 2000 10:25 AM
                > > Subject: Fw: [hreg] Economics of RE Part 2
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > ----- Original Message -----
                > > From: Jonathan Clemens
                > > To: hreg@egroups.com
                > > Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2000 1:14 PM
                > > Subject: [hreg] Economics of RE Part 2
                > >
                > >
                > > HREG,
                > >
                > > FYI, Part 2 of 2 attached re: Economics of RE charts provided at
                > the Roundup. Part 2 contains the appendix items. The original
                > powerpoint file was split into two parts in order to comply with the
                > egroups maximum of 1MB sized messages.
                > >
                > > Jonathan
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
              • Kevin L. Conlin
                Good for you, Becky, the passive solar approach you ve taken can be utilized to some degree by almost everyone in Texas. It may not be as exciting as using PV
                Message 7 of 19 , Oct 20, 2000
                • 0 Attachment
                  Good for you, Becky, the passive solar approach you've taken can be utilized
                  to some degree by almost everyone in Texas.
                  It may not be as exciting as using PV panels, but makes a lot of sense, is
                  cost effective, and creates a more pleasant yard environment. We've done a
                  lot of the same things on our home, including deciduous trees on the South
                  side and enjoy lower utility bills as a result. We looked hard to find an
                  energy efficient home to start with as well, and had the builder upgrade the
                  AC unit as well. One thing that I did learn is that a lot of the high
                  efficiency AC units are built better than lower efficiency ones and seem to
                  last quite a bit longer with fewer maint and service problems. Good job.
                  Regards, kevin

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Becky Merritt <bmeritt@...>
                  To: <hreg@egroups.com>; <jksyzdek@...>
                  Sent: Friday, October 20, 2000 9:05 AM
                  Subject: [hreg] Re: Solar economics


                  > Jim,
                  >
                  > I agree with you that we need to reduce our existing use of energy. I
                  believe that the key to using solar energy successfully is to first become
                  as energy efficient as possible. To that end, some other things to think
                  about are using landscaping to block the sun in warm months and let it shine
                  through in the cold month (deciduous trees, shrubs and vines, for ex).
                  Plants can be put to use to encourage good air circulation around a home,
                  too. Don't forget that a yard full of grass has a cooling effect.
                  >
                  > Building an arbor or a patio cover on the east or west side of the house
                  is a good idea, too. My husband and I built an arbor on the east side,
                  shading our living room windows and planted wisteria vines. Now, we don't
                  even need window coverings on those windows. The living room is bright
                  enough during the day that we don't need to turn on lights, either. It also
                  keeps our carpet and upholstery from fadiing.
                  >
                  > Remember to check seals around doors and windows, and add more insulation
                  in the attic if it is warranted. I have seen solar powered roof vents for
                  sale. I'm going to look into getting one for my garage. ( I already have an
                  electric roof vent for the house)
                  >
                  > The solar sun screens are beneficial, as they block some of the sun's
                  energy before it enters the home. I made 14 screens for my house, and saved
                  a lot of money by doing it myself. (The less expense, the quicker the payoff
                  time) I take the screens down in the cold months and put them back up when
                  it gets warm again.
                  >
                  > If you are just building a house, orientation is critical. A North facing
                  orientation is probably ideal. Remember, though, that you want it to face
                  due north, not magnetic north for maximum efficiency.
                  >
                  > These are just a few thoughts. I'm sure there are a lot more out there.
                  Good luck!
                  >
                  > Becky Merritt
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • Lisha Doucet
                  Hi Becky, Can you post how you built your solar screens. I would like to do the same for my house. Thanks, Lisha Doucet ...
                  Message 8 of 19 , Oct 20, 2000
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Hi Becky,

                    Can you post how you built your solar screens. I would like to do the same
                    for my house.

                    Thanks,
                    Lisha Doucet


                    >From: "Becky Merritt" <bmeritt@...>
                    >Reply-To: hreg@egroups.com
                    >To: <hreg@egroups.com>, <jksyzdek@...>
                    >Subject: [hreg] Re: Solar economics
                    >Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 11:05:56 -0500
                    >
                    >Jim,
                    >
                    >I agree with you that we need to reduce our existing use of energy. I
                    >believe that the key to using solar energy successfully is to first become
                    >as energy efficient as possible. To that end, some other things to think
                    >about are using landscaping to block the sun in warm months and let it
                    >shine through in the cold month (deciduous trees, shrubs and vines, for
                    >ex). Plants can be put to use to encourage good air circulation around a
                    >home, too. Don't forget that a yard full of grass has a cooling effect.
                    >
                    >Building an arbor or a patio cover on the east or west side of the house is
                    >a good idea, too. My husband and I built an arbor on the east side, shading
                    >our living room windows and planted wisteria vines. Now, we don't even need
                    >window coverings on those windows. The living room is bright enough during
                    >the day that we don't need to turn on lights, either. It also keeps our
                    >carpet and upholstery from fadiing.
                    >
                    >Remember to check seals around doors and windows, and add more insulation
                    >in the attic if it is warranted. I have seen solar powered roof vents for
                    >sale. I'm going to look into getting one for my garage. ( I already have an
                    >electric roof vent for the house)
                    >
                    >The solar sun screens are beneficial, as they block some of the sun's
                    >energy before it enters the home. I made 14 screens for my house, and saved
                    >a lot of money by doing it myself. (The less expense, the quicker the
                    >payoff time) I take the screens down in the cold months and put them back
                    >up when it gets warm again.
                    >
                    >If you are just building a house, orientation is critical. A North facing
                    >orientation is probably ideal. Remember, though, that you want it to face
                    >due north, not magnetic north for maximum efficiency.
                    >
                    >These are just a few thoughts. I'm sure there are a lot more out there.
                    >Good luck!
                    >
                    >Becky Merritt
                    >
                    >

                    _________________________________________________________________________
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                  • Ida G Morello
                    Please do not send any further info. Thanx.. tmm ... From: Steve Shepard To: Sent: Friday, October 20, 2000 3:56
                    Message 9 of 19 , Oct 21, 2000
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Please do not send any further info.
                      Thanx.. tmm

                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: Steve Shepard <sbtdesigns@...>
                      To: <hreg@egroups.com>
                      Sent: Friday, October 20, 2000 3:56 PM
                      Subject: Re: [hreg] Re: Solar economics


                      > If Mr. Conlin doesn't have time or care to communicate with potential
                      > interests in solar then please allow me to volunteer our time and efforts.
                      >
                      > We enjoy the opportunity to speak with new users and potential new users
                      of
                      > renewable energy technologies. Our motivation is economic to be sure but
                      > our company mission is also based on empowering our customers with the
                      > ability to generate their own power, become more self sufficient, be more
                      > ecological consumers and conserve our country's resources. This is a
                      > powerful desire for us as individuals and as a small business.
                      >
                      > It is also bonus to us that we also create competition for the government
                      > owned and operated electric utility monopolies that operate in our region.
                      > City Public Service (CPS)functions as an annexation scout for the City of
                      > San Antonio. CPS is aggressively branching out, marketing and attempting
                      to
                      > providing service to rural regions prior to electric utility deregulation
                      > which is scheduled for 2002.
                      >
                      > San Antonio is one of the most aggressive annexation municipalities in the
                      > State of Texas. In the last five years SA has annexed over 50,000 rural
                      > county residents. The City only provides increased taxes for these
                      invaded
                      > citizens and provides little or no city services in return. San Antonio
                      > follows the path that CPS forges invades and annexes the rural regions
                      that
                      > CPS engulfs.
                      >
                      > We welcome any interest, need, question or requirements related to
                      renewable
                      > energy technologies. As a small family business we recognize it is an
                      > opportunity and a privilege to be of service. It's also a lot of fun!
                      >
                      > Steve Shepard
                      > SBT Designs
                      > 25840 IH-10 West #1
                      > Boerne, Texas 78006
                      > 210-698-7109
                      > FAX: 210-698-7147
                      > http://www.sbtdesigns.com
                      > sbtdesigns@...
                      >
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > From: "Jim Syzdek" <jksyzdek@...>
                      > To: <hreg@egroups.com>
                      > Sent: Friday, October 20, 2000 10:29 AM
                      > Subject: [hreg] Re: Solar economics
                      >
                      >
                      > > Kevin,
                      > > Hi. I'm a new member just picked up from the NASA Health and Safety
                      > > day at JSC. I read Jonathan's presentation and it looked really
                      > > good. He did a great job. I agree with you on your comment:
                      > >
                      > > >We get several calls a week from people wanting to lower their
                      > > >utility bills and I have to tell them that solar doesn't make sense
                      > > >if you are already connected to the grid.
                      > >
                      > > I have been looking at being an independent self sufficient
                      > > individual for years and how I can make this happen. My first steps
                      > > have been to reduce my existing use of energy as you suggested. I
                      > > have lowered my monthly electric bill by about $30-$40 a month just
                      > > by replacing most incadescents with flourescents, getting rid of
                      > > waterbeds with heater, using an electronic thermostat for the A/C,
                      > > using gas instead of electricity for clothes drying.
                      > > Solar electric is expensive at present, as we all are aware, but
                      > > there are little things that people in the cities can do to start the
                      > > transition to solar power. Some being: getting rid of incadescent
                      > > lights and use flourescents(these are getting very reasonably
                      > > priced), use solar screens on your windows, getting rid of electric
                      > > driers if you have gas, and use the electronic thermostats for A/C,
                      > > getting rid of phantom loads throughout your house, just to name a
                      > > few. Also, there are small solar powered devices out there that
                      > > don't cost too much, that will give them the feel good aspect of
                      > > using solar, such as solar powered outdoor lights with motion sensor,
                      > > solar radios, solar powered attic vent fans, solar powered lamps, and
                      > > many, many, more items. These items can be found in magazines just
                      > > about everywhere.
                      > >
                      > > Thanks,
                      > > Jim Syzdek
                      > >
                      > > --- In hreg@egroups.com, "Kevin L. Conlin" <kconlin@s...> wrote:
                      > > > Hi Jonathan, Liked your presentation on solar economics, sorry I
                      > > didn't see it in person in Fredricksburg. We get several calls a week
                      > > from people wanting to lower their utility bills and I have to tell
                      > > them that solar doesn't make sense if you are already connected to
                      > > the grid. From their reaction I'm sure this puts people off, but
                      > > it's the truth, and I'm not big on selling people expensive things
                      > > they really don't need. I usually tell them that they should conserve
                      > > the energy they are now buying rather than try to generate their own,
                      > > but most people are attracted to the quick fix and seem to think that
                      > > solar can offer a magic solution to their problems. The intuitive
                      > > friendliness people seem to have towards solar has created a lot of
                      > > opportunities for con artists in the past, and has left a lot of
                      > > disappointed customers in their wake. I wish I had a better answer
                      > > for them, but I have neither the time or patience to get into all
                      > > the economic details of renewables, conservation, social costs,
                      > > environmental impact, etc... This is why I chose to sell to industry,
                      > > not consumers. On the other hand, I don't want to discourage them
                      > > completely, so I really don't know the best way to handle these
                      > > inquiries other than to refer them to HREG, TX-SES or TREIA. Any
                      > > thoughts or suggestions? Does anyone in HREG want to talk to these
                      > > people, or have a better answer than I do? Keep up the good work!
                      > > regards, Kevin Conlin
                      > > > ----- Original Message -----
                      > > > From: Solarcraft
                      > > > To: Kevin L. Conlin
                      > > > Sent: Monday, October 09, 2000 10:25 AM
                      > > > Subject: Fw: [hreg] Economics of RE Part 2
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > ----- Original Message -----
                      > > > From: Jonathan Clemens
                      > > > To: hreg@egroups.com
                      > > > Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2000 1:14 PM
                      > > > Subject: [hreg] Economics of RE Part 2
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > HREG,
                      > > >
                      > > > FYI, Part 2 of 2 attached re: Economics of RE charts provided at
                      > > the Roundup. Part 2 contains the appendix items. The original
                      > > powerpoint file was split into two parts in order to comply with the
                      > > egroups maximum of 1MB sized messages.
                      > > >
                      > > > Jonathan
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                    • Ida G Morello
                      Please do not send any further info,,, Thanx, tmm ... From: Lisha Doucet To: Sent: Friday, October 20, 2000 7:40
                      Message 10 of 19 , Oct 21, 2000
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Please do not send any further info,,, Thanx, tmm


                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: Lisha Doucet <lisha_doucet@...>
                        To: <hreg@egroups.com>
                        Sent: Friday, October 20, 2000 7:40 PM
                        Subject: Re: [hreg] Re: Solar economics


                        > Hi Becky,
                        >
                        > Can you post how you built your solar screens. I would like to do the same
                        > for my house.
                        >
                        > Thanks,
                        > Lisha Doucet
                        >
                        >
                        > >From: "Becky Merritt" <bmeritt@...>
                        > >Reply-To: hreg@egroups.com
                        > >To: <hreg@egroups.com>, <jksyzdek@...>
                        > >Subject: [hreg] Re: Solar economics
                        > >Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 11:05:56 -0500
                        > >
                        > >Jim,
                        > >
                        > >I agree with you that we need to reduce our existing use of energy. I
                        > >believe that the key to using solar energy successfully is to first
                        become
                        > >as energy efficient as possible. To that end, some other things to think
                        > >about are using landscaping to block the sun in warm months and let it
                        > >shine through in the cold month (deciduous trees, shrubs and vines, for
                        > >ex). Plants can be put to use to encourage good air circulation around a
                        > >home, too. Don't forget that a yard full of grass has a cooling effect.
                        > >
                        > >Building an arbor or a patio cover on the east or west side of the house
                        is
                        > >a good idea, too. My husband and I built an arbor on the east side,
                        shading
                        > >our living room windows and planted wisteria vines. Now, we don't even
                        need
                        > >window coverings on those windows. The living room is bright enough
                        during
                        > >the day that we don't need to turn on lights, either. It also keeps our
                        > >carpet and upholstery from fadiing.
                        > >
                        > >Remember to check seals around doors and windows, and add more insulation
                        > >in the attic if it is warranted. I have seen solar powered roof vents for
                        > >sale. I'm going to look into getting one for my garage. ( I already have
                        an
                        > >electric roof vent for the house)
                        > >
                        > >The solar sun screens are beneficial, as they block some of the sun's
                        > >energy before it enters the home. I made 14 screens for my house, and sav
                        ed
                        > >a lot of money by doing it myself. (The less expense, the quicker the
                        > >payoff time) I take the screens down in the cold months and put them back
                        > >up when it gets warm again.
                        > >
                        > >If you are just building a house, orientation is critical. A North facing
                        > >orientation is probably ideal. Remember, though, that you want it to face
                        > >due north, not magnetic north for maximum efficiency.
                        > >
                        > >These are just a few thoughts. I'm sure there are a lot more out there.
                        > >Good luck!
                        > >
                        > >Becky Merritt
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                        > _________________________________________________________________________
                        > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
                        >
                        > Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
                        > http://profiles.msn.com
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                      • Ida G Morello
                        Do Not send me any further info.. Thanks, tmm ... From: Kevin L. Conlin To: Sent: Friday, October 20, 2000 6:42 PM
                        Message 11 of 19 , Oct 21, 2000
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Do Not send me any further info.. Thanks, tmm


                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: Kevin L. Conlin <kconlin@...>
                          To: <hreg@egroups.com>
                          Sent: Friday, October 20, 2000 6:42 PM
                          Subject: Re: [hreg] Re: Solar economics


                          > Good for you, Becky, the passive solar approach you've taken can be
                          utilized
                          > to some degree by almost everyone in Texas.
                          > It may not be as exciting as using PV panels, but makes a lot of sense, is
                          > cost effective, and creates a more pleasant yard environment. We've done a
                          > lot of the same things on our home, including deciduous trees on the South
                          > side and enjoy lower utility bills as a result. We looked hard to find an
                          > energy efficient home to start with as well, and had the builder upgrade
                          the
                          > AC unit as well. One thing that I did learn is that a lot of the high
                          > efficiency AC units are built better than lower efficiency ones and seem
                          to
                          > last quite a bit longer with fewer maint and service problems. Good job.
                          > Regards, kevin
                          >
                          > ----- Original Message -----
                          > From: Becky Merritt <bmeritt@...>
                          > To: <hreg@egroups.com>; <jksyzdek@...>
                          > Sent: Friday, October 20, 2000 9:05 AM
                          > Subject: [hreg] Re: Solar economics
                          >
                          >
                          > > Jim,
                          > >
                          > > I agree with you that we need to reduce our existing use of energy. I
                          > believe that the key to using solar energy successfully is to first
                          become
                          > as energy efficient as possible. To that end, some other things to think
                          > about are using landscaping to block the sun in warm months and let it
                          shine
                          > through in the cold month (deciduous trees, shrubs and vines, for ex).
                          > Plants can be put to use to encourage good air circulation around a home,
                          > too. Don't forget that a yard full of grass has a cooling effect.
                          > >
                          > > Building an arbor or a patio cover on the east or west side of the house
                          > is a good idea, too. My husband and I built an arbor on the east side,
                          > shading our living room windows and planted wisteria vines. Now, we don't
                          > even need window coverings on those windows. The living room is bright
                          > enough during the day that we don't need to turn on lights, either. It
                          also
                          > keeps our carpet and upholstery from fadiing.
                          > >
                          > > Remember to check seals around doors and windows, and add more
                          insulation
                          > in the attic if it is warranted. I have seen solar powered roof vents for
                          > sale. I'm going to look into getting one for my garage. ( I already have
                          an
                          > electric roof vent for the house)
                          > >
                          > > The solar sun screens are beneficial, as they block some of the sun's
                          > energy before it enters the home. I made 14 screens for my house, and
                          saved
                          > a lot of money by doing it myself. (The less expense, the quicker the
                          payoff
                          > time) I take the screens down in the cold months and put them back up when
                          > it gets warm again.
                          > >
                          > > If you are just building a house, orientation is critical. A North
                          facing
                          > orientation is probably ideal. Remember, though, that you want it to face
                          > due north, not magnetic north for maximum efficiency.
                          > >
                          > > These are just a few thoughts. I'm sure there are a lot more out there.
                          > Good luck!
                          > >
                          > > Becky Merritt
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                        • Ida G Morello
                          Do not send me any further info.. Thanks.. tmm.. ... From: Jim Syzdek To: Sent: Friday, October 20, 2000 3:29 PM
                          Message 12 of 19 , Oct 21, 2000
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Do not send me any further info.. Thanks.. tmm..


                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: Jim Syzdek <jksyzdek@...>
                            To: <hreg@egroups.com>
                            Sent: Friday, October 20, 2000 3:29 PM
                            Subject: [hreg] Re: Solar economics


                            > Kevin,
                            > Hi. I'm a new member just picked up from the NASA Health and Safety
                            > day at JSC. I read Jonathan's presentation and it looked really
                            > good. He did a great job. I agree with you on your comment:
                            >
                            > >We get several calls a week from people wanting to lower their
                            > >utility bills and I have to tell them that solar doesn't make sense
                            > >if you are already connected to the grid.
                            >
                            > I have been looking at being an independent self sufficient
                            > individual for years and how I can make this happen. My first steps
                            > have been to reduce my existing use of energy as you suggested. I
                            > have lowered my monthly electric bill by about $30-$40 a month just
                            > by replacing most incadescents with flourescents, getting rid of
                            > waterbeds with heater, using an electronic thermostat for the A/C,
                            > using gas instead of electricity for clothes drying.
                            > Solar electric is expensive at present, as we all are aware, but
                            > there are little things that people in the cities can do to start the
                            > transition to solar power. Some being: getting rid of incadescent
                            > lights and use flourescents(these are getting very reasonably
                            > priced), use solar screens on your windows, getting rid of electric
                            > driers if you have gas, and use the electronic thermostats for A/C,
                            > getting rid of phantom loads throughout your house, just to name a
                            > few. Also, there are small solar powered devices out there that
                            > don't cost too much, that will give them the feel good aspect of
                            > using solar, such as solar powered outdoor lights with motion sensor,
                            > solar radios, solar powered attic vent fans, solar powered lamps, and
                            > many, many, more items. These items can be found in magazines just
                            > about everywhere.
                            >
                            > Thanks,
                            > Jim Syzdek
                            >
                            > --- In hreg@egroups.com, "Kevin L. Conlin" <kconlin@s...> wrote:
                            > > Hi Jonathan, Liked your presentation on solar economics, sorry I
                            > didn't see it in person in Fredricksburg. We get several calls a week
                            > from people wanting to lower their utility bills and I have to tell
                            > them that solar doesn't make sense if you are already connected to
                            > the grid. From their reaction I'm sure this puts people off, but
                            > it's the truth, and I'm not big on selling people expensive things
                            > they really don't need. I usually tell them that they should conserve
                            > the energy they are now buying rather than try to generate their own,
                            > but most people are attracted to the quick fix and seem to think that
                            > solar can offer a magic solution to their problems. The intuitive
                            > friendliness people seem to have towards solar has created a lot of
                            > opportunities for con artists in the past, and has left a lot of
                            > disappointed customers in their wake. I wish I had a better answer
                            > for them, but I have neither the time or patience to get into all
                            > the economic details of renewables, conservation, social costs,
                            > environmental impact, etc... This is why I chose to sell to industry,
                            > not consumers. On the other hand, I don't want to discourage them
                            > completely, so I really don't know the best way to handle these
                            > inquiries other than to refer them to HREG, TX-SES or TREIA. Any
                            > thoughts or suggestions? Does anyone in HREG want to talk to these
                            > people, or have a better answer than I do? Keep up the good work!
                            > regards, Kevin Conlin
                            > > ----- Original Message -----
                            > > From: Solarcraft
                            > > To: Kevin L. Conlin
                            > > Sent: Monday, October 09, 2000 10:25 AM
                            > > Subject: Fw: [hreg] Economics of RE Part 2
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > ----- Original Message -----
                            > > From: Jonathan Clemens
                            > > To: hreg@egroups.com
                            > > Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2000 1:14 PM
                            > > Subject: [hreg] Economics of RE Part 2
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > HREG,
                            > >
                            > > FYI, Part 2 of 2 attached re: Economics of RE charts provided at
                            > the Roundup. Part 2 contains the appendix items. The original
                            > powerpoint file was split into two parts in order to comply with the
                            > egroups maximum of 1MB sized messages.
                            > >
                            > > Jonathan
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                          • Ida G Morello
                            Do not send me any further info.. Thanks, tmm.. ... From: Becky Merritt To: ; Sent: Friday,
                            Message 13 of 19 , Oct 21, 2000
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Do not send me any further info.. Thanks, tmm..


                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: Becky Merritt <bmeritt@...>
                              To: <hreg@egroups.com>; <jksyzdek@...>
                              Sent: Friday, October 20, 2000 4:05 PM
                              Subject: [hreg] Re: Solar economics


                              > Jim,
                              >
                              > I agree with you that we need to reduce our existing use of energy. I
                              believe that the key to using solar energy successfully is to first become
                              as energy efficient as possible. To that end, some other things to think
                              about are using landscaping to block the sun in warm months and let it shine
                              through in the cold month (deciduous trees, shrubs and vines, for ex).
                              Plants can be put to use to encourage good air circulation around a home,
                              too. Don't forget that a yard full of grass has a cooling effect.
                              >
                              > Building an arbor or a patio cover on the east or west side of the house
                              is a good idea, too. My husband and I built an arbor on the east side,
                              shading our living room windows and planted wisteria vines. Now, we don't
                              even need window coverings on those windows. The living room is bright
                              enough during the day that we don't need to turn on lights, either. It also
                              keeps our carpet and upholstery from fadiing.
                              >
                              > Remember to check seals around doors and windows, and add more insulation
                              in the attic if it is warranted. I have seen solar powered roof vents for
                              sale. I'm going to look into getting one for my garage. ( I already have an
                              electric roof vent for the house)
                              >
                              > The solar sun screens are beneficial, as they block some of the sun's
                              energy before it enters the home. I made 14 screens for my house, and saved
                              a lot of money by doing it myself. (The less expense, the quicker the payoff
                              time) I take the screens down in the cold months and put them back up when
                              it gets warm again.
                              >
                              > If you are just building a house, orientation is critical. A North facing
                              orientation is probably ideal. Remember, though, that you want it to face
                              due north, not magnetic north for maximum efficiency.
                              >
                              > These are just a few thoughts. I'm sure there are a lot more out there.
                              Good luck!
                              >
                              > Becky Merritt
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                            • LENIO, JAMES A. (JIM) (JSC-DL4)
                              Please remove me too from your email distribution. Thanks for all the good info and insight. Jim ... From: Ida G Morello [mailto:igm@flash.net] Sent:
                              Message 14 of 19 , Oct 23, 2000
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Please remove me too from your email distribution. Thanks for all the good
                                info and insight.



                                Jim




                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: Ida G Morello [mailto:igm@...]
                                Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2000 12:28 PM
                                To: hreg@egroups.com
                                Subject: Re: [hreg] Re: Solar economics


                                Do not send me any further info.. Thanks.. tmm..


                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: Jim Syzdek <jksyzdek@...>
                                To: <hreg@egroups.com>
                                Sent: Friday, October 20, 2000 3:29 PM
                                Subject: [hreg] Re: Solar economics


                                > Kevin,
                                > Hi. I'm a new member just picked up from the NASA Health and Safety
                                > day at JSC. I read Jonathan's presentation and it looked really
                                > good. He did a great job. I agree with you on your comment:
                                >
                                > >We get several calls a week from people wanting to lower their
                                > >utility bills and I have to tell them that solar doesn't make sense
                                > >if you are already connected to the grid.
                                >
                                > I have been looking at being an independent self sufficient
                                > individual for years and how I can make this happen. My first steps
                                > have been to reduce my existing use of energy as you suggested. I
                                > have lowered my monthly electric bill by about $30-$40 a month just
                                > by replacing most incadescents with flourescents, getting rid of
                                > waterbeds with heater, using an electronic thermostat for the A/C,
                                > using gas instead of electricity for clothes drying.
                                > Solar electric is expensive at present, as we all are aware, but
                                > there are little things that people in the cities can do to start the
                                > transition to solar power. Some being: getting rid of incadescent
                                > lights and use flourescents(these are getting very reasonably
                                > priced), use solar screens on your windows, getting rid of electric
                                > driers if you have gas, and use the electronic thermostats for A/C,
                                > getting rid of phantom loads throughout your house, just to name a
                                > few. Also, there are small solar powered devices out there that
                                > don't cost too much, that will give them the feel good aspect of
                                > using solar, such as solar powered outdoor lights with motion sensor,
                                > solar radios, solar powered attic vent fans, solar powered lamps, and
                                > many, many, more items. These items can be found in magazines just
                                > about everywhere.
                                >
                                > Thanks,
                                > Jim Syzdek
                                >
                                > --- In hreg@egroups.com, "Kevin L. Conlin" <kconlin@s...> wrote:
                                > > Hi Jonathan, Liked your presentation on solar economics, sorry I
                                > didn't see it in person in Fredricksburg. We get several calls a week
                                > from people wanting to lower their utility bills and I have to tell
                                > them that solar doesn't make sense if you are already connected to
                                > the grid. From their reaction I'm sure this puts people off, but
                                > it's the truth, and I'm not big on selling people expensive things
                                > they really don't need. I usually tell them that they should conserve
                                > the energy they are now buying rather than try to generate their own,
                                > but most people are attracted to the quick fix and seem to think that
                                > solar can offer a magic solution to their problems. The intuitive
                                > friendliness people seem to have towards solar has created a lot of
                                > opportunities for con artists in the past, and has left a lot of
                                > disappointed customers in their wake. I wish I had a better answer
                                > for them, but I have neither the time or patience to get into all
                                > the economic details of renewables, conservation, social costs,
                                > environmental impact, etc... This is why I chose to sell to industry,
                                > not consumers. On the other hand, I don't want to discourage them
                                > completely, so I really don't know the best way to handle these
                                > inquiries other than to refer them to HREG, TX-SES or TREIA. Any
                                > thoughts or suggestions? Does anyone in HREG want to talk to these
                                > people, or have a better answer than I do? Keep up the good work!
                                > regards, Kevin Conlin
                                > > ----- Original Message -----
                                > > From: Solarcraft
                                > > To: Kevin L. Conlin
                                > > Sent: Monday, October 09, 2000 10:25 AM
                                > > Subject: Fw: [hreg] Economics of RE Part 2
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > ----- Original Message -----
                                > > From: Jonathan Clemens
                                > > To: hreg@egroups.com
                                > > Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2000 1:14 PM
                                > > Subject: [hreg] Economics of RE Part 2
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > HREG,
                                > >
                                > > FYI, Part 2 of 2 attached re: Economics of RE charts provided at
                                > the Roundup. Part 2 contains the appendix items. The original
                                > powerpoint file was split into two parts in order to comply with the
                                > egroups maximum of 1MB sized messages.
                                > >
                                > > Jonathan
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                              • Marjorie N Wood
                                Maybe one thing all of us in regional groups could do would be to buy a huge batch of CFs at wholesale and sell them at that price to neighborhoods and
                                Message 15 of 19 , Oct 23, 2000
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Maybe one thing all of us in regional groups could do would be to buy a
                                  huge batch of CFs at wholesale and sell them at that price to
                                  neighborhoods and members. Friday I went into a nice hardware and they
                                  wanted $26 for a name brand compact fluorescent. I know we should be able
                                  to do better than that.
                                  Marge

                                  On Fri, 20 Oct 2000 15:29:35 -0000 "Jim Syzdek" <jksyzdek@...>
                                  writes:
                                  > Kevin,
                                  > Hi. I'm a new member just picked up from the NASA Health and
                                  > Safety
                                  > day at JSC. I read Jonathan's presentation and it looked really
                                  > good. He did a great job. I agree with you on your comment:
                                  >
                                  > >We get several calls a week from people wanting to lower their
                                  > >utility bills and I have to tell them that solar doesn't make sense
                                  >
                                  > >if you are already connected to the grid.
                                  >
                                  > I have been looking at being an independent self sufficient
                                  > individual for years and how I can make this happen. My first steps
                                  >
                                  > have been to reduce my existing use of energy as you suggested. I
                                  > have lowered my monthly electric bill by about $30-$40 a month just
                                  > by replacing most incadescents with flourescents, getting rid of
                                  > waterbeds with heater, using an electronic thermostat for the A/C,
                                  > using gas instead of electricity for clothes drying.
                                  > Solar electric is expensive at present, as we all are aware, but
                                  > there are little things that people in the cities can do to start
                                  > the
                                  > transition to solar power. Some being: getting rid of incadescent
                                  > lights and use flourescents(these are getting very reasonably
                                  > priced), use solar screens on your windows, getting rid of electric
                                  > driers if you have gas, and use the electronic thermostats for A/C,
                                  > getting rid of phantom loads throughout your house, just to name a
                                  > few. Also, there are small solar powered devices out there that
                                  > don't cost too much, that will give them the feel good aspect of
                                  > using solar, such as solar powered outdoor lights with motion
                                  > sensor,
                                  > solar radios, solar powered attic vent fans, solar powered lamps,
                                  > and
                                  > many, many, more items. These items can be found in magazines just
                                  > about everywhere.
                                  >
                                  > Thanks,
                                  > Jim Syzdek
                                  >
                                  > --- In hreg@egroups.com, "Kevin L. Conlin" <kconlin@s...> wrote:
                                  > > Hi Jonathan, Liked your presentation on solar economics, sorry I
                                  > didn't see it in person in Fredricksburg. We get several calls a
                                  > week
                                  > from people wanting to lower their utility bills and I have to tell
                                  > them that solar doesn't make sense if you are already connected to
                                  > the grid. From their reaction I'm sure this puts people off, but
                                  > it's the truth, and I'm not big on selling people expensive things
                                  > they really don't need. I usually tell them that they should
                                  > conserve
                                  > the energy they are now buying rather than try to generate their
                                  > own,
                                  > but most people are attracted to the quick fix and seem to think
                                  > that
                                  > solar can offer a magic solution to their problems. The intuitive
                                  > friendliness people seem to have towards solar has created a lot of
                                  > opportunities for con artists in the past, and has left a lot of
                                  > disappointed customers in their wake. I wish I had a better answer
                                  > for them, but I have neither the time or patience to get into all
                                  > the economic details of renewables, conservation, social costs,
                                  > environmental impact, etc... This is why I chose to sell to
                                  > industry,
                                  > not consumers. On the other hand, I don't want to discourage them
                                  > completely, so I really don't know the best way to handle these
                                  > inquiries other than to refer them to HREG, TX-SES or TREIA. Any
                                  > thoughts or suggestions? Does anyone in HREG want to talk to these
                                  > people, or have a better answer than I do? Keep up the good work!
                                  >
                                  > regards, Kevin Conlin
                                  > > ----- Original Message -----
                                  > > From: Solarcraft
                                  > > To: Kevin L. Conlin
                                  > > Sent: Monday, October 09, 2000 10:25 AM
                                  > > Subject: Fw: [hreg] Economics of RE Part 2
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > ----- Original Message -----
                                  > > From: Jonathan Clemens
                                  > > To: hreg@egroups.com
                                  > > Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2000 1:14 PM
                                  > > Subject: [hreg] Economics of RE Part 2
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > HREG,
                                  > >
                                  > > FYI, Part 2 of 2 attached re: Economics of RE charts provided at
                                  >
                                  > the Roundup. Part 2 contains the appendix items. The original
                                  > powerpoint file was split into two parts in order to comply with the
                                  >
                                  > egroups maximum of 1MB sized messages.
                                  > >
                                  > > Jonathan
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                • Steve Stelzer
                                  IKEA has very reasonably priced compact fluorescents. Check them out. ... From: Marjorie N Wood [mailto:othermother6@juno.com] Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Oct 23, 2000
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    IKEA has very reasonably priced compact fluorescents. Check them out.

                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: Marjorie N Wood [mailto:othermother6@...]
                                    Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 1:44 PM
                                    To: hreg@egroups.com
                                    Subject: Re: [hreg] Re: Solar economics


                                    Maybe one thing all of us in regional groups could do would be to buy a
                                    huge batch of CFs at wholesale and sell them at that price to
                                    neighborhoods and members. Friday I went into a nice hardware and they
                                    wanted $26 for a name brand compact fluorescent. I know we should be able
                                    to do better than that.
                                    Marge

                                    On Fri, 20 Oct 2000 15:29:35 -0000 "Jim Syzdek" <jksyzdek@...>
                                    writes:
                                    > Kevin,
                                    > Hi. I'm a new member just picked up from the NASA Health and
                                    > Safety
                                    > day at JSC. I read Jonathan's presentation and it looked really
                                    > good. He did a great job. I agree with you on your comment:
                                    >
                                    > >We get several calls a week from people wanting to lower their
                                    > >utility bills and I have to tell them that solar doesn't make sense
                                    >
                                    > >if you are already connected to the grid.
                                    >
                                    > I have been looking at being an independent self sufficient
                                    > individual for years and how I can make this happen. My first steps
                                    >
                                    > have been to reduce my existing use of energy as you suggested. I
                                    > have lowered my monthly electric bill by about $30-$40 a month just
                                    > by replacing most incadescents with flourescents, getting rid of
                                    > waterbeds with heater, using an electronic thermostat for the A/C,
                                    > using gas instead of electricity for clothes drying.
                                    > Solar electric is expensive at present, as we all are aware, but
                                    > there are little things that people in the cities can do to start
                                    > the
                                    > transition to solar power. Some being: getting rid of incadescent
                                    > lights and use flourescents(these are getting very reasonably
                                    > priced), use solar screens on your windows, getting rid of electric
                                    > driers if you have gas, and use the electronic thermostats for A/C,
                                    > getting rid of phantom loads throughout your house, just to name a
                                    > few. Also, there are small solar powered devices out there that
                                    > don't cost too much, that will give them the feel good aspect of
                                    > using solar, such as solar powered outdoor lights with motion
                                    > sensor,
                                    > solar radios, solar powered attic vent fans, solar powered lamps,
                                    > and
                                    > many, many, more items. These items can be found in magazines just
                                    > about everywhere.
                                    >
                                    > Thanks,
                                    > Jim Syzdek
                                    >
                                    > --- In hreg@egroups.com, "Kevin L. Conlin" <kconlin@s...> wrote:
                                    > > Hi Jonathan, Liked your presentation on solar economics, sorry I
                                    > didn't see it in person in Fredricksburg. We get several calls a
                                    > week
                                    > from people wanting to lower their utility bills and I have to tell
                                    > them that solar doesn't make sense if you are already connected to
                                    > the grid. From their reaction I'm sure this puts people off, but
                                    > it's the truth, and I'm not big on selling people expensive things
                                    > they really don't need. I usually tell them that they should
                                    > conserve
                                    > the energy they are now buying rather than try to generate their
                                    > own,
                                    > but most people are attracted to the quick fix and seem to think
                                    > that
                                    > solar can offer a magic solution to their problems. The intuitive
                                    > friendliness people seem to have towards solar has created a lot of
                                    > opportunities for con artists in the past, and has left a lot of
                                    > disappointed customers in their wake. I wish I had a better answer
                                    > for them, but I have neither the time or patience to get into all
                                    > the economic details of renewables, conservation, social costs,
                                    > environmental impact, etc... This is why I chose to sell to
                                    > industry,
                                    > not consumers. On the other hand, I don't want to discourage them
                                    > completely, so I really don't know the best way to handle these
                                    > inquiries other than to refer them to HREG, TX-SES or TREIA. Any
                                    > thoughts or suggestions? Does anyone in HREG want to talk to these
                                    > people, or have a better answer than I do? Keep up the good work!
                                    >
                                    > regards, Kevin Conlin
                                    > > ----- Original Message -----
                                    > > From: Solarcraft
                                    > > To: Kevin L. Conlin
                                    > > Sent: Monday, October 09, 2000 10:25 AM
                                    > > Subject: Fw: [hreg] Economics of RE Part 2
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > ----- Original Message -----
                                    > > From: Jonathan Clemens
                                    > > To: hreg@egroups.com
                                    > > Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2000 1:14 PM
                                    > > Subject: [hreg] Economics of RE Part 2
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > HREG,
                                    > >
                                    > > FYI, Part 2 of 2 attached re: Economics of RE charts provided at
                                    >
                                    > the Roundup. Part 2 contains the appendix items. The original
                                    > powerpoint file was split into two parts in order to comply with the
                                    >
                                    > egroups maximum of 1MB sized messages.
                                    > >
                                    > > Jonathan
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                  • Dmeengr@aol.com
                                    Please discontinue using my old e-mail address dmeengr@aol.com You may reach me at dmeengr@nwol.net David
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Oct 25, 2000
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Please discontinue using my old e-mail address

                                      dmeengr@...

                                      You may reach me at

                                      dmeengr@...

                                      David
                                    • Jim & Kathi Syzdek
                                      Marjorie, Home Depot has the swirling type of ligjts for around $8 -$9. These lights use 15W for 60W equivalent light. They also have 20W size for 75W
                                      Message 18 of 19 , Oct 26, 2000
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Marjorie,
                                        Home Depot has the swirling type of ligjts for around $8 -$9. These
                                        lights use 15W for 60W equivalent light. They also have 20W size for 75W
                                        equivalent light. They fit in the same space as a regular incadescent light
                                        bulb in most applications. I have seen these same CFs at other stores also.
                                        Jim


                                        >From: Marjorie N Wood <othermother6@...>
                                        >Reply-To: hreg@egroups.com
                                        >To: hreg@egroups.com
                                        >Subject: Re: [hreg] Re: Solar economics
                                        >Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 13:43:35 -0500
                                        >
                                        >Maybe one thing all of us in regional groups could do would be to buy a
                                        >huge batch of CFs at wholesale and sell them at that price to
                                        >neighborhoods and members. Friday I went into a nice hardware and they
                                        >wanted $26 for a name brand compact fluorescent. I know we should be able
                                        >to do better than that.
                                        >Marge
                                        >
                                        >On Fri, 20 Oct 2000 15:29:35 -0000 "Jim Syzdek" <jksyzdek@...>
                                        >writes:
                                        > > Kevin,
                                        > > Hi. I'm a new member just picked up from the NASA Health and
                                        > > Safety
                                        > > day at JSC. I read Jonathan's presentation and it looked really
                                        > > good. He did a great job. I agree with you on your comment:
                                        > >
                                        > > >We get several calls a week from people wanting to lower their
                                        > > >utility bills and I have to tell them that solar doesn't make sense
                                        > >
                                        > > >if you are already connected to the grid.
                                        > >
                                        > > I have been looking at being an independent self sufficient
                                        > > individual for years and how I can make this happen. My first steps
                                        > >
                                        > > have been to reduce my existing use of energy as you suggested. I
                                        > > have lowered my monthly electric bill by about $30-$40 a month just
                                        > > by replacing most incadescents with flourescents, getting rid of
                                        > > waterbeds with heater, using an electronic thermostat for the A/C,
                                        > > using gas instead of electricity for clothes drying.
                                        > > Solar electric is expensive at present, as we all are aware, but
                                        > > there are little things that people in the cities can do to start
                                        > > the
                                        > > transition to solar power. Some being: getting rid of incadescent
                                        > > lights and use flourescents(these are getting very reasonably
                                        > > priced), use solar screens on your windows, getting rid of electric
                                        > > driers if you have gas, and use the electronic thermostats for A/C,
                                        > > getting rid of phantom loads throughout your house, just to name a
                                        > > few. Also, there are small solar powered devices out there that
                                        > > don't cost too much, that will give them the feel good aspect of
                                        > > using solar, such as solar powered outdoor lights with motion
                                        > > sensor,
                                        > > solar radios, solar powered attic vent fans, solar powered lamps,
                                        > > and
                                        > > many, many, more items. These items can be found in magazines just
                                        > > about everywhere.
                                        > >
                                        > > Thanks,
                                        > > Jim Syzdek
                                        > >
                                        > > --- In hreg@egroups.com, "Kevin L. Conlin" <kconlin@s...> wrote:
                                        > > > Hi Jonathan, Liked your presentation on solar economics, sorry I
                                        > > didn't see it in person in Fredricksburg. We get several calls a
                                        > > week
                                        > > from people wanting to lower their utility bills and I have to tell
                                        > > them that solar doesn't make sense if you are already connected to
                                        > > the grid. From their reaction I'm sure this puts people off, but
                                        > > it's the truth, and I'm not big on selling people expensive things
                                        > > they really don't need. I usually tell them that they should
                                        > > conserve
                                        > > the energy they are now buying rather than try to generate their
                                        > > own,
                                        > > but most people are attracted to the quick fix and seem to think
                                        > > that
                                        > > solar can offer a magic solution to their problems. The intuitive
                                        > > friendliness people seem to have towards solar has created a lot of
                                        > > opportunities for con artists in the past, and has left a lot of
                                        > > disappointed customers in their wake. I wish I had a better answer
                                        > > for them, but I have neither the time or patience to get into all
                                        > > the economic details of renewables, conservation, social costs,
                                        > > environmental impact, etc... This is why I chose to sell to
                                        > > industry,
                                        > > not consumers. On the other hand, I don't want to discourage them
                                        > > completely, so I really don't know the best way to handle these
                                        > > inquiries other than to refer them to HREG, TX-SES or TREIA. Any
                                        > > thoughts or suggestions? Does anyone in HREG want to talk to these
                                        > > people, or have a better answer than I do? Keep up the good work!
                                        > >
                                        > > regards, Kevin Conlin
                                        > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                        > > > From: Solarcraft
                                        > > > To: Kevin L. Conlin
                                        > > > Sent: Monday, October 09, 2000 10:25 AM
                                        > > > Subject: Fw: [hreg] Economics of RE Part 2
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                        > > > From: Jonathan Clemens
                                        > > > To: hreg@egroups.com
                                        > > > Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2000 1:14 PM
                                        > > > Subject: [hreg] Economics of RE Part 2
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > HREG,
                                        > > >
                                        > > > FYI, Part 2 of 2 attached re: Economics of RE charts provided at
                                        > >
                                        > > the Roundup. Part 2 contains the appendix items. The original
                                        > > powerpoint file was split into two parts in order to comply with the
                                        > >
                                        > > egroups maximum of 1MB sized messages.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Jonathan
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >

                                        _________________________________________________________________________
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                                      • Marjorie N Wood
                                        Thanks! I will go take a look. Marge On Thu, 26 Oct 2000 10:30:07 CDT Jim & Kathi Syzdek
                                        Message 19 of 19 , Oct 26, 2000
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Thanks! I will go take a look. Marge

                                          On Thu, 26 Oct 2000 10:30:07 CDT "Jim & Kathi Syzdek"
                                          <jksyzdek@...> writes:
                                          > Marjorie,
                                          > Home Depot has the swirling type of ligjts for around $8 -$9.
                                          > These
                                          > lights use 15W for 60W equivalent light. They also have 20W size
                                          > for 75W
                                          > equivalent light. They fit in the same space as a regular
                                          > incadescent light
                                          > bulb in most applications. I have seen these same CFs at other
                                          > stores also.
                                          > Jim
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > >From: Marjorie N Wood <othermother6@...>
                                          > >Reply-To: hreg@egroups.com
                                          > >To: hreg@egroups.com
                                          > >Subject: Re: [hreg] Re: Solar economics
                                          > >Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 13:43:35 -0500
                                          > >
                                          > >Maybe one thing all of us in regional groups could do would be to
                                          > buy a
                                          > >huge batch of CFs at wholesale and sell them at that price to
                                          > >neighborhoods and members. Friday I went into a nice hardware and
                                          > they
                                          > >wanted $26 for a name brand compact fluorescent. I know we should
                                          > be able
                                          > >to do better than that.
                                          > >Marge
                                          > >
                                          > >On Fri, 20 Oct 2000 15:29:35 -0000 "Jim Syzdek"
                                          > <jksyzdek@...>
                                          > >writes:
                                          > > > Kevin,
                                          > > > Hi. I'm a new member just picked up from the NASA Health and
                                          > > > Safety
                                          > > > day at JSC. I read Jonathan's presentation and it looked really
                                          > > > good. He did a great job. I agree with you on your comment:
                                          > > >
                                          > > > >We get several calls a week from people wanting to lower their
                                          > > > >utility bills and I have to tell them that solar doesn't make
                                          > sense
                                          > > >
                                          > > > >if you are already connected to the grid.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > I have been looking at being an independent self sufficient
                                          > > > individual for years and how I can make this happen. My first
                                          > steps
                                          > > >
                                          > > > have been to reduce my existing use of energy as you suggested.
                                          > I
                                          > > > have lowered my monthly electric bill by about $30-$40 a month
                                          > just
                                          > > > by replacing most incadescents with flourescents, getting rid of
                                          > > > waterbeds with heater, using an electronic thermostat for the
                                          > A/C,
                                          > > > using gas instead of electricity for clothes drying.
                                          > > > Solar electric is expensive at present, as we all are aware,
                                          > but
                                          > > > there are little things that people in the cities can do to
                                          > start
                                          > > > the
                                          > > > transition to solar power. Some being: getting rid of
                                          > incadescent
                                          > > > lights and use flourescents(these are getting very reasonably
                                          > > > priced), use solar screens on your windows, getting rid of
                                          > electric
                                          > > > driers if you have gas, and use the electronic thermostats for
                                          > A/C,
                                          > > > getting rid of phantom loads throughout your house, just to name
                                          > a
                                          > > > few. Also, there are small solar powered devices out there that
                                          > > > don't cost too much, that will give them the feel good aspect of
                                          > > > using solar, such as solar powered outdoor lights with motion
                                          > > > sensor,
                                          > > > solar radios, solar powered attic vent fans, solar powered
                                          > lamps,
                                          > > > and
                                          > > > many, many, more items. These items can be found in magazines
                                          > just
                                          > > > about everywhere.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Thanks,
                                          > > > Jim Syzdek
                                          > > >
                                          > > > --- In hreg@egroups.com, "Kevin L. Conlin" <kconlin@s...> wrote:
                                          > > > > Hi Jonathan, Liked your presentation on solar economics,
                                          > sorry I
                                          > > > didn't see it in person in Fredricksburg. We get several calls a
                                          > > > week
                                          > > > from people wanting to lower their utility bills and I have to
                                          > tell
                                          > > > them that solar doesn't make sense if you are already connected
                                          > to
                                          > > > the grid. From their reaction I'm sure this puts people off,
                                          > but
                                          > > > it's the truth, and I'm not big on selling people expensive
                                          > things
                                          > > > they really don't need. I usually tell them that they should
                                          > > > conserve
                                          > > > the energy they are now buying rather than try to generate their
                                          > > > own,
                                          > > > but most people are attracted to the quick fix and seem to think
                                          > > > that
                                          > > > solar can offer a magic solution to their problems. The
                                          > intuitive
                                          > > > friendliness people seem to have towards solar has created a lot
                                          > of
                                          > > > opportunities for con artists in the past, and has left a lot of
                                          > > > disappointed customers in their wake. I wish I had a better
                                          > answer
                                          > > > for them, but I have neither the time or patience to get into
                                          > all
                                          > > > the economic details of renewables, conservation, social costs,
                                          > > > environmental impact, etc... This is why I chose to sell to
                                          > > > industry,
                                          > > > not consumers. On the other hand, I don't want to discourage
                                          > them
                                          > > > completely, so I really don't know the best way to handle these
                                          > > > inquiries other than to refer them to HREG, TX-SES or TREIA.
                                          > Any
                                          > > > thoughts or suggestions? Does anyone in HREG want to talk to
                                          > these
                                          > > > people, or have a better answer than I do? Keep up the good
                                          > work!
                                          > > >
                                          > > > regards, Kevin Conlin
                                          > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                          > > > > From: Solarcraft
                                          > > > > To: Kevin L. Conlin
                                          > > > > Sent: Monday, October 09, 2000 10:25 AM
                                          > > > > Subject: Fw: [hreg] Economics of RE Part 2
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                          > > > > From: Jonathan Clemens
                                          > > > > To: hreg@egroups.com
                                          > > > > Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2000 1:14 PM
                                          > > > > Subject: [hreg] Economics of RE Part 2
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > HREG,
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > FYI, Part 2 of 2 attached re: Economics of RE charts
                                          > provided at
                                          > > >
                                          > > > the Roundup. Part 2 contains the appendix items. The original
                                          > > > powerpoint file was split into two parts in order to comply with
                                          > the
                                          > > >
                                          > > > egroups maximum of 1MB sized messages.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Jonathan
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > > -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          _________________________________________________________________________
                                          > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
                                          > http://www.hotmail.com
                                          >
                                          > Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
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                                          >
                                          >
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                                          >
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                                          >
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