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Forums on energy conservation? Don't want to sidetrack here.

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  • Todd
    I have lots of questions and ideas about conserving energy, not necessarily related to renewable energy. While I ve learned a lot here, I don t want to be
    Message 1 of 14 , Nov 6, 2005
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      I have lots of questions and ideas about conserving energy, not
      necessarily related to renewable energy. While I've learned a lot
      here, I don't want to be off-topic. Does anybody know of another forum
      more for saving energy regardless of the source?

      I'm very interested in home-made solar (yes, that's renewable) water
      heat for my building and for my biodiesel blending process. I'm also
      interested in fog spraying AC outside units, water spray cooling roofs
      and other ideas.

      I have had positive experience with radiant barriers in regular
      atticks, white roofs (flat roof building), interior storm windows and
      timers on the water heater.

      This is not how I make my living but I've wondered about it
      sometimes. I designed and built a 3600 square foot home on the bayou
      with gobs of windows and saw $125/mo average utilities ($100 in
      summer) when friends built almost identical houses with the same crew
      and were happy to be at $280/month and typically bust through $300.

      I want to learn from others and want to share what I have learned.
      Thanks.

      Todd T
    • David Power
      The green building list covers lots of conservation topics. Greenbuilding email list List info: http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding List
      Message 2 of 14 , Nov 6, 2005
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        The green building list covers lots of conservation topics.
         
        Greenbuilding email list
        List info: http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding
        List email: Greenbuilding@...
        Managed by BuildingGreen, Inc. http://www.buildinggreen.com
              publisher of Environmental Building News and GreenSpec(r)
        Hosted and archived by REPP / CREST http://www.crest.org
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Todd
        Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 9:14 AM
        Subject: [hreg] Forums on energy conservation? Don't want to sidetrack here.

        I have lots of questions and ideas about conserving energy, not
        necessarily related to renewable energy.  While I've learned a lot
        here, I don't want to be off-topic. Does anybody know of another forum
        more for saving energy regardless of the source?

        I'm very interested in home-made solar (yes, that's renewable) water
        heat for my building and for my biodiesel blending process.  I'm also
        interested in fog spraying AC outside units, water spray cooling roofs
        and other ideas.

        I have had positive experience with radiant barriers in regular
        atticks, white roofs (flat roof building), interior storm windows and
        timers on the water heater.

        This is not how I make my living but I've wondered about it
        sometimes.  I designed and built a 3600 square foot home on the bayou
        with gobs of windows and saw $125/mo average utilities ($100 in
        summer) when friends built almost identical houses with the same crew
        and were happy to be at $280/month and typically bust through $300.

        I want to learn from others and want to share what I have learned.
        Thanks.

        Todd T



      • Roxanne Boyer
        Todd, There are several groups around Houston interested in conservation. Too many small ones. I think they need to agglomerate for more influence. Here are
        Message 3 of 14 , Nov 10, 2005
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          Todd,
           
          There are several groups around Houston interested in conservation.  Too many small ones.  I think they need to agglomerate for more influence.  Here are a few, but the names are not right, maybe someone can help me with the names...
           
          Houston Council on Energy Conservation
          Clean Water Action
          SEED Coalition
          Green Living
          Council on Green Building
           
          We have had good discussions on HREG about conservatio and more are certainly welcome.
          Building design is so important for energy and home comfort.  We put a covered patio on the south wall of our home.  Previously, the sun would shine right through the windows on that side and make it unbearably hot in those rooms.  Now the windows are shaded, we noticed a $10/month change in our electric bill, and the rooms on the south side are the same temperature as the rest of the house.  And, we have no loss of visibility into the back yard.
           
           
           
           
           
           

          Todd <toddt58@...> wrote:
          I have lots of questions and ideas about conserving energy, not
          necessarily related to renewable energy.  While I've learned a lot
          here, I don't want to be off-topic. Does anybody know of another forum
          more for saving energy regardless of the source?

          I'm very interested in home-made solar (yes, that's renewable) water
          heat for my building and for my biodiesel blending process.  I'm also
          interested in fog spraying AC outside units, water spray cooling roofs
          and other ideas.

          I have had positive experience with radiant barriers in regular
          atticks, white roofs (flat roof building), interior storm windows and
          timers on the water heater.

          This is not how I make my living but I've wondered about it
          sometimes.  I designed and built a 3600 square foot home on the bayou
          with gobs of windows and saw $125/mo average utilities ($100 in
          summer) when friends built almost identical houses with the same crew
          and were happy to be at $280/month and typically bust through $300.

          I want to learn from others and want to share what I have learned.
          Thanks.

          Todd T



        • Nan Hildreth
          Yes, let s talk about energy efficiency. I m responsible for five little 50 year old houses with low income tenants. In two of them, the tenants have been
          Message 4 of 14 , Nov 11, 2005
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            Yes, let's talk about energy efficiency. I'm responsible for five
            little 50 year old houses with low income tenants. In two of them,
            the tenants have been struggling to pay $300 electricity.

            My questions:

            What will give the biggest efficiency bang for the buck?

            Shall I better ventilate that attic? Laverne and Brian say "Don't
            ventilate." But Laverne's Orchid house has a self-cooling (clay
            tile) roof and expensive foam sprayed into the underside of the
            roof. Meanwhile I have a new dark asphalt shingle roof with ridge
            vents, which, I suspect, aren't working for lack of soffit vents and
            due to ancient gable vents.

            Can you paint a shingle roof white without it looking terrible,
            streaked, in a year?

            How much difference did the interior storm windows make?

            How did you keep you utility bills to 30% of your neighbors?

            At 09:14 AM 11/6/2005, Todd wrote:
            >I have lots of questions and ideas about conserving energy, not
            >necessarily related to renewable energy. While I've learned a lot
            >here, I don't want to be off-topic. Does anybody know of another forum
            >more for saving energy regardless of the source?
            >
            >I'm very interested in home-made solar (yes, that's renewable) water
            >heat for my building and for my biodiesel blending process. I'm also
            >interested in fog spraying AC outside units, water spray cooling roofs
            >and other ideas.
            >
            >I have had positive experience with radiant barriers in regular
            >atticks, white roofs (flat roof building), interior storm windows and
            >timers on the water heater.
            >
            >This is not how I make my living but I've wondered about it
            >sometimes. I designed and built a 3600 square foot home on the bayou
            >with gobs of windows and saw $125/mo average utilities ($100 in
            >summer) when friends built almost identical houses with the same crew
            >and were happy to be at $280/month and typically bust through $300.
            >
            >I want to learn from others and want to share what I have learned.
            >Thanks.
            >
            >Todd T
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >


            Nan Hildreth, Houston
            713-842-6643 NanHildreth@...
            713-443-3104 cell
            3939 Luca St.
            Houston, Tx 77021
          • Michael Ewert
            Nan, These answers aren t fully researched, but I ll give you my answers to your questions below. ... From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com]
            Message 5 of 14 , Nov 11, 2005
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              Nan,
              These answers aren't fully researched, but I'll give you my answers to
              your questions below.

              -----Original Message-----
              From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
              Nan Hildreth
              Sent: Friday, November 11, 2005 4:04 AM
              To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [hreg] Forums on energy conservation? Don't want to
              sidetrack here.

              Yes, let's talk about energy efficiency. I'm responsible for five
              little 50 year old houses with low income tenants. In two of them,
              the tenants have been struggling to pay $300 electricity.

              My questions:

              What will give the biggest efficiency bang for the buck?
              >fluorescent lighting, add insulation in the attic, seal air leaks

              Shall I better ventilate that attic? Laverne and Brian say "Don't
              ventilate." But Laverne's Orchid house has a self-cooling (clay
              tile) roof and expensive foam sprayed into the underside of the
              roof. Meanwhile I have a new dark asphalt shingle roof with ridge
              vents, which, I suspect, aren't working for lack of soffit vents and
              due to ancient gable vents.
              >I think those are special designs. In your case, I think more
              ventilation is better. I agree you need soffit vents to make the ridge
              vent work better.

              Can you paint a shingle roof white without it looking terrible,
              streaked, in a year?
              >I wouldn't try it. Next time you can buy a special white roof.

              How much difference did the interior storm windows make?
              Don't know
              How did you keep you utility bills to 30% of your neighbors?

              At 09:14 AM 11/6/2005, Todd wrote:
              >I have lots of questions and ideas about conserving energy, not
              >necessarily related to renewable energy. While I've learned a lot
              >here, I don't want to be off-topic. Does anybody know of another forum
              >more for saving energy regardless of the source?
              >
              >I'm very interested in home-made solar (yes, that's renewable) water
              >heat for my building and for my biodiesel blending process. I'm also
              >interested in fog spraying AC outside units, water spray cooling roofs
              >and other ideas.
              >
              >I have had positive experience with radiant barriers in regular
              >atticks, white roofs (flat roof building), interior storm windows and
              >timers on the water heater.
              >
              >This is not how I make my living but I've wondered about it
              >sometimes. I designed and built a 3600 square foot home on the bayou
              >with gobs of windows and saw $125/mo average utilities ($100 in
              >summer) when friends built almost identical houses with the same crew
              >and were happy to be at $280/month and typically bust through $300.
              >
              >I want to learn from others and want to share what I have learned.
              >Thanks.
              >
              >Todd T
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >


              Nan Hildreth, Houston
              713-842-6643 NanHildreth@...
              713-443-3104 cell
              3939 Luca St.
              Houston, Tx 77021







              Yahoo! Groups Links
            • Garth & Kim Travis
              Greetings, What are they using for hot water heating? Propane or NG can be cheaper. Or, pehaps a tankless hot water heater. Electric hot water runs over
              Message 6 of 14 , Nov 11, 2005
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                Greetings,

                What are they using for hot water heating? Propane or NG can be
                cheaper. Or, pehaps a tankless hot water heater. Electric hot water runs
                over $40/month.

                Rather than storm windows, I would go to window quilts or good shades with
                18 ounce denim on the back and at least 3 layers of material with mylar
                sandwiched. I make my own for less than $10 a window and it is only that
                high because I want pretty on the inside. These drapes really cut the
                summer heat and hold the heat in, in the winter.

                Bright Blessings,
                Kim

                At 04:03 AM 11/11/2005, you wrote:
                >Yes, let's talk about energy efficiency. I'm responsible for five
                >little 50 year old houses with low income tenants. In two of them,
                >the tenants have been struggling to pay $300 electricity.
                >
                >My questions:
                >
                >What will give the biggest efficiency bang for the buck?
                >
                >Shall I better ventilate that attic? Laverne and Brian say "Don't
                >ventilate." But Laverne's Orchid house has a self-cooling (clay
                >tile) roof and expensive foam sprayed into the underside of the
                >roof. Meanwhile I have a new dark asphalt shingle roof with ridge
                >vents, which, I suspect, aren't working for lack of soffit vents and
                >due to ancient gable vents.
                >
                >Can you paint a shingle roof white without it looking terrible,
                >streaked, in a year?
                >
                >How much difference did the interior storm windows make?
                >
                >How did you keep you utility bills to 30% of your neighbors?
                >
                >At 09:14 AM 11/6/2005, Todd wrote:
                > >I have lots of questions and ideas about conserving energy, not
                > >necessarily related to renewable energy. While I've learned a lot
                > >here, I don't want to be off-topic. Does anybody know of another forum
                > >more for saving energy regardless of the source?
                > >
                > >I'm very interested in home-made solar (yes, that's renewable) water
                > >heat for my building and for my biodiesel blending process. I'm also
                > >interested in fog spraying AC outside units, water spray cooling roofs
                > >and other ideas.
                > >
                > >I have had positive experience with radiant barriers in regular
                > >atticks, white roofs (flat roof building), interior storm windows and
                > >timers on the water heater.
                > >
                > >This is not how I make my living but I've wondered about it
                > >sometimes. I designed and built a 3600 square foot home on the bayou
                > >with gobs of windows and saw $125/mo average utilities ($100 in
                > >summer) when friends built almost identical houses with the same crew
                > >and were happy to be at $280/month and typically bust through $300.
                > >
                > >I want to learn from others and want to share what I have learned.
                > >Thanks.
                > >
                > >Todd T
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
                >
                >Nan Hildreth, Houston
                >713-842-6643 NanHildreth@...
                >713-443-3104 cell
                >3939 Luca St.
                >Houston, Tx 77021
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
              • SBT Designs
                1. Recommend you consider solar water heating systems. A solar water heating system can pay for itself in energy savings in less than five years and
                Message 7 of 14 , Nov 11, 2005
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                  1. Recommend you consider solar water heating systems. A solar water
                  heating system can pay for itself in energy savings in less than five years
                  and potentially continue to return on investment for decades. The buildings
                  on this site are prime candidates for solar water heating technology.

                  2. Recommend you consider solar venting for the attic. This product
                  will aid in cooling the attic during the hottest time of the day or year and
                  reduce the load on the air conditioning system.

                  3. Recommend solar lighting for all outdoor lighting applications at
                  this site. Solar lighting requires no digging, trenching, no power lines
                  through the air, no electric meter, no monthly electric bill and solar
                  lighting continues to function even when the electric utility goes down due
                  to maintenance issues or bad weather conditions. Solar lighting for safety.

                  4. Due to the location of this site (in hurricane alley) recommend you
                  purchase and install sufficient lightning and electric power line arrestor
                  surge protection. This location will always be a prime target for lightning
                  strikes and electric utility power line failure.

                  5. Recommend you consider installing solar lighting for security
                  purposes. Solar lighting does not go down due to utility failures.

                  6. Recommend you consider purchasing and installing solar screens on
                  all windows that open and allow ambient air and sunlight into the building.
                  Solar screens reduce solar thermal heat accumulation through windows. Solar
                  screens help to reduce the load in HVAC cooling systems.

                  7. Recommend you consider tinting all windows to reduce solar thermal
                  heat accumulation through windows. Window tinting helps to reduce the load
                  in HVAC cooling systems.

                  8. If budget is a constraint then we recommend our Advanced Control
                  Technologies (ACT) powerline carrier control automation system product line
                  for automatic control of the site electrical systems. ACT automation
                  technology can pay for itself in energy savings in five years or less.
                  Automatic lighting control is one of the many features to an ACT automation
                  system.

                  9. Again, if energy conservation or energy savings is a concern at
                  this site we recommend these structures be super insulated with radiant
                  barrier thermal insulating building materials in order to reduce HVAC load.
                  Insulation of a building is the most economic method of reducing monthly
                  electric bills on heating and cooling.





                  Steven Shepard
                  SBT Designs
                  25581 IH-10 West
                  San Antonio, Texas 78257
                  (210) 698-7109
                  www.sbtdesigns.com


                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "Nan Hildreth" <nanhildreth@...>
                  To: <hreg@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Friday, November 11, 2005 4:03 AM
                  Subject: Re: [hreg] Forums on energy conservation? Don't want to sidetrack
                  here.


                  > Yes, let's talk about energy efficiency. I'm responsible for five
                  > little 50 year old houses with low income tenants. In two of them,
                  > the tenants have been struggling to pay $300 electricity.
                  >
                  > My questions:
                  >
                  > What will give the biggest efficiency bang for the buck?
                  >
                  > Shall I better ventilate that attic? Laverne and Brian say "Don't
                  > ventilate." But Laverne's Orchid house has a self-cooling (clay
                  > tile) roof and expensive foam sprayed into the underside of the
                  > roof. Meanwhile I have a new dark asphalt shingle roof with ridge
                  > vents, which, I suspect, aren't working for lack of soffit vents and
                  > due to ancient gable vents.
                  >
                  > Can you paint a shingle roof white without it looking terrible,
                  > streaked, in a year?
                  >
                  > How much difference did the interior storm windows make?
                  >
                  > How did you keep you utility bills to 30% of your neighbors?
                  >
                  > At 09:14 AM 11/6/2005, Todd wrote:
                  >>I have lots of questions and ideas about conserving energy, not
                  >>necessarily related to renewable energy. While I've learned a lot
                  >>here, I don't want to be off-topic. Does anybody know of another forum
                  >>more for saving energy regardless of the source?
                  >>
                  >>I'm very interested in home-made solar (yes, that's renewable) water
                  >>heat for my building and for my biodiesel blending process. I'm also
                  >>interested in fog spraying AC outside units, water spray cooling roofs
                  >>and other ideas.
                  >>
                  >>I have had positive experience with radiant barriers in regular
                  >>atticks, white roofs (flat roof building), interior storm windows and
                  >>timers on the water heater.
                  >>
                  >>This is not how I make my living but I've wondered about it
                  >>sometimes. I designed and built a 3600 square foot home on the bayou
                  >>with gobs of windows and saw $125/mo average utilities ($100 in
                  >>summer) when friends built almost identical houses with the same crew
                  >>and were happy to be at $280/month and typically bust through $300.
                  >>
                  >>I want to learn from others and want to share what I have learned.
                  >>Thanks.
                  >>
                  >>Todd T
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >
                  >
                  > Nan Hildreth, Houston
                  > 713-842-6643 NanHildreth@...
                  > 713-443-3104 cell
                  > 3939 Luca St.
                  > Houston, Tx 77021
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • Nan Hildreth
                  There is so much I can do to improve energy efficiency in my houses, where do I start? What gives a payback of
                  Message 8 of 14 , Nov 12, 2005
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                    There is so much I can do to improve energy efficiency in my houses,
                    where do I start? What gives a payback of < 1 year?

                    Thanks for your suggestions. Below more comments.

                    At 09:55 AM 11/11/2005, SBT Designs wrote:
                    <snip>
                    3. Recommend solar lighting for all outdoor lighting applications at
                    >this site. Solar lighting requires no digging, trenching, no power lines
                    >through the air, no electric meter, no monthly electric bill and solar
                    >lighting continues to function even when the electric utility goes down due
                    >to maintenance issues or bad weather conditions. Solar lighting for safety.

                    What is cost and availability? Real Goods has one for
                    $600. Ugh. But on underwired old houses deduct $100 or more for
                    not having to run wires, giving this Mercedes Benz a 4 year
                    payback. The common old mercury vapor Dusk to Dawn light uses
                    about $120 electricity per year if run all night every night. So
                    much light! 210 watts or $700 million a year wasted in the US
                    estimates http://www.darksky.org/key/keyecon.html

                    To get a one year payback, put the old Dusk to Dawn light on a switch
                    and keep it turned off. When the expensive bulb blows, replace it
                    with a motion detector flood ($13) and CF flood bulbs (2 for $12) or
                    other Energy Star lighting. (prices from Lowes.com)

                    6. Recommend you consider purchasing and installing solar screens on
                    >all windows that open and allow ambient air and sunlight into the building.
                    >Solar screens reduce solar thermal heat accumulation through windows. Solar
                    >screens help to reduce the load in HVAC cooling systems.

                    Is that the thick dark nylon screening material available everywhere?

                    >7. Recommend you consider tinting all windows to reduce solar thermal
                    >heat accumulation through windows. Window tinting helps to reduce the load
                    >in HVAC cooling systems.

                    Tint all windows that get direct sunlight?

                    >8. If budget is a constraint then we recommend our Advanced Control
                    >Technologies (ACT) powerline carrier control automation system product line
                    >for automatic control of the site electrical systems. ACT automation
                    >technology can pay for itself in energy savings in five years or less.
                    >Automatic lighting control is one of the many features to an ACT automation
                    >system.

                    ??

                    >9. Again, if energy conservation or energy savings is a concern at
                    >this site we recommend these structures be super insulated with radiant
                    >barrier thermal insulating building materials in order to reduce HVAC load.
                    >Insulation of a building is the most economic method of reducing monthly
                    >electric bills on heating and cooling.

                    What are the caveats for attic insulation? I had to teach the
                    handymen how when I don't know myself. Laverne says the weight of
                    cellulose insulation can make old ceiling sheetrock fall in. I
                    tested the ceiling for play by pushing up with a stick before
                    insulating. One was sagging a bit, so we screwed it up better to
                    rafters and then insulated. No problem. I worried that cellulose
                    insulation covering the rafters would make it difficult to do later
                    attic chores, but it settled about 30% in two years. Besides after
                    initial repairs, not much reason to attic.

                    Home Depot will lend you the machine if you buy a houseful same
                    day. Lowes says it also, but they lie. Is there a local supplier
                    who beats their price significantly?

                    To keep the insulation from clogging soffit vents, should I nail up
                    little boards to hold it back? Or just not spray near edges? In
                    other words, does it flow downhill a bit like water?

                    They say some light fixtures, when insulated on top, become a fire
                    hazard. So keep them free of insulation. Is that just recessed
                    cams? Would flush mount lights and celing fans also be a concern?

                    Another caveat is roof leaks and cellulose. Paper absorbs
                    water. Heavy. Also, they say that the boric acid they soak it with,
                    (eyewash, Roach Proof), to make it fire resistant, when wet, will eat
                    through nails. Do I just need to keep on top of any roof
                    leaks? (Me? Slumlord?)

                    Fiberglass insulation also has lots of caveats aside from being more
                    expensive.

                    BTW, Houston's biggest informal school for new landlords/real estate
                    investors is Rich Club www.richclub.org Monthly meetings turn out
                    300 or 400. Most of the volunteer leaders of that group are pushing
                    their products. I haven't seen anyone pushing an energy
                    conservation product or service. I would be interested in helping
                    start a monthly discussion group there on progressive landlord issues.

                    >Steven Shepard
                    >SBT Designs
                    >25581 IH-10 West
                    >San Antonio, Texas 78257
                    >(210) 698-7109
                    >www.sbtdesigns.com
                    >
                    >
                    >----- Original Message -----
                    >From: "Nan Hildreth" <nanhildreth@...>
                    >To: <hreg@yahoogroups.com>
                    >Sent: Friday, November 11, 2005 4:03 AM
                    >Subject: Re: [hreg] Forums on energy conservation? Don't want to sidetrack
                    >here.
                    >
                    >
                    > > Yes, let's talk about energy efficiency. I'm responsible for five
                    > > little 50 year old houses with low income tenants. In two of them,
                    > > the tenants have been struggling to pay $300 electricity.
                    > >
                    > > My questions:
                    > >
                    > > What will give the biggest efficiency bang for the buck?
                    > >
                    > > Shall I better ventilate that attic? Laverne and Brian say "Don't
                    > > ventilate." But Laverne's Orchid house has a self-cooling (clay
                    > > tile) roof and expensive foam sprayed into the underside of the
                    > > roof. Meanwhile I have a new dark asphalt shingle roof with ridge
                    > > vents, which, I suspect, aren't working for lack of soffit vents and
                    > > due to ancient gable vents.
                    > >
                    > > Can you paint a shingle roof white without it looking terrible,
                    > > streaked, in a year?
                    > >
                    > > How much difference did the interior storm windows make?
                    > >
                    > > How did you keep you utility bills to 30% of your neighbors?
                    > >
                    > > At 09:14 AM 11/6/2005, Todd wrote:
                    > >>I have lots of questions and ideas about conserving energy, not
                    > >>necessarily related to renewable energy. While I've learned a lot
                    > >>here, I don't want to be off-topic. Does anybody know of another forum
                    > >>more for saving energy regardless of the source?
                    > >>
                    > >>I'm very interested in home-made solar (yes, that's renewable) water
                    > >>heat for my building and for my biodiesel blending process. I'm also
                    > >>interested in fog spraying AC outside units, water spray cooling roofs
                    > >>and other ideas.
                    > >>
                    > >>I have had positive experience with radiant barriers in regular
                    > >>atticks, white roofs (flat roof building), interior storm windows and
                    > >>timers on the water heater.
                    > >>
                    > >>This is not how I make my living but I've wondered about it
                    > >>sometimes. I designed and built a 3600 square foot home on the bayou
                    > >>with gobs of windows and saw $125/mo average utilities ($100 in
                    > >>summer) when friends built almost identical houses with the same crew
                    > >>and were happy to be at $280/month and typically bust through $300.
                    > >>
                    > >>I want to learn from others and want to share what I have learned.
                    > >>Thanks.
                    > >>
                    > >>Todd T
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >>Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Nan Hildreth, Houston
                    > > 713-842-6643 NanHildreth@...
                    > > 713-443-3104 cell
                    > > 3939 Luca St.
                    > > Houston, Tx 77021
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >


                    Nan Hildreth, Houston
                    713-842-6643 NanHildreth@...
                    713-443-3104 cell
                    3939 Luca St.
                    Houston, Tx 77021
                  • Todd
                    A 12-month return on investment is tough. I usually work on a 36 month payback scheme. I can think of two things: gas space heater and water heater timer. My
                    Message 9 of 14 , Nov 13, 2005
                    • 0 Attachment
                      A 12-month return on investment is tough. I usually work on a 36
                      month payback scheme. I can think of two things: gas space heater
                      and water heater timer.

                      My loft (1913 building) has electric heat and air. I bought a
                      30,000 vent free gas heater... one of the fake logs made by Pro-Com
                      available at Northern Tool. I haven't compared my bills but
                      according to the gas company, my total cost of heating this 1500
                      square foot area, not including use of the gas dryer, is only $180
                      per year using CURRENT pricing. Not bad, though I'm wanting to cut
                      that further by radiant heating and some solar work.

                      Check most electric water heater energy efficiency tags for
                      operating costs. Most would eat up $65 to $75 a month at current
                      rates. I added a timer that comes on for only 15 minutes each
                      morning. This is more than enough for a shower, though I live
                      alone. A manual on/off is used for washing dishes and clothes. I
                      also turned the thermometer to the lowest setting. When I shower, I
                      just turn it to max hot water and it is the right temp.

                      How did I build in so much effiency in my 3600 sq. ft. house with a
                      3 year payback? I went Buick LeSabre on everything. I didn't go
                      hog wild on SEER, etc. I just went 'better' on some things.

                      A few details:
                      2x6 stud walls, 24" OC
                      12 SEER AC units, back then this was 'pretty good'
                      Insulation- blown in cellulose wasn't available then. Used
                      fiberglas but also did the full caulk and expandable foam in all
                      openings.
                      Windows- all double paned, low E glass. Downstairs used Kolbe &
                      Kolbe argon filled alum. clad wood windows. Upstairs General
                      Aluminum double glazed, low E with thermal breaks. Nice heavy rails
                      and stiles blended visually with the real wood windows downstairs.
                      8" blown cellulose insulation in attic, added more later
                      Continous ridge and soffit vents. Baffles in EVERY rafter bay

                      The first summer we saw $85 power and $15 gas bills, $.07/kwh rates
                      back in 1994. The winter heating costs were higher ironically.
                      Overall, $125/month total utilities for the first full 12 months in
                      the house.

                      The following spring I added more cellulose in the attic... 12" to
                      15" everywhere. I also added Solar Shield stapled directly to the
                      rafters. Gaps were left at the top for venting.

                      Unfortunately, we divorced and sold the house in '97. The buyers
                      have told their neighbors about how impressed they are with the
                      efficiency. My energy efficiency measures paid for themselves in 36
                      months... just about how long I lived there! Bummer.

                      In my building, I was getting cooked by the sun. The roof is also
                      the ceiling! Painting with white mobile home roof coating helped so
                      much... but not applicable for those with shingles. The interior
                      storm windows were a 38 to 42 month payback but worth it just to get
                      the sound deadening benefit. My building is right next to the
                      railroad... and I couldn't talk on the phone with their horn blaring.

                      I paid a crew to install my interior storm windows. There are now
                      sources to do it yourself. That may bring it back to a 18 month
                      payback.

                      I added 6" of fiberglas to the joist bays beneath the loft. This is
                      just laid into bays, held up by some waferboard which resting on
                      some 1x2's nailed onto the joists. I'm adding some 1" styrofoam
                      type insulation as I can afford it. These are odd size bays so I
                      use the culls from the local lumberyard.

                      I hope to add radiant heating with pex lines, then the foil backed
                      foam boards, plus keep the 6" fiberglass.

                      As I may have mentioned elsewhere, my goal is to have a diesel
                      generator running on WVO or biodiesel. Louisiana just put net-
                      metering rules into place this month. Just in time!

                      Todd

                      --- In hreg@yahoogroups.com, Nan Hildreth <nanhildreth@r...> wrote:
                      >
                      > There is so much I can do to improve energy efficiency in my
                      houses,
                      > where do I start? What gives a payback of < 1 year?
                      >
                      > Thanks for your suggestions. Below more comments.
                      >
                      > At 09:55 AM 11/11/2005, SBT Designs wrote:
                      > <snip>
                      > 3. Recommend solar lighting for all outdoor lighting
                      applications at
                      > >this site. Solar lighting requires no digging, trenching, no
                      power lines
                      > >through the air, no electric meter, no monthly electric bill and
                      solar
                      > >lighting continues to function even when the electric utility
                      goes down due
                      > >to maintenance issues or bad weather conditions. Solar lighting
                      for safety.
                      >
                      > What is cost and availability? Real Goods has one for
                      > $600. Ugh. But on underwired old houses deduct $100 or more for
                      > not having to run wires, giving this Mercedes Benz a 4 year
                      > payback. The common old mercury vapor Dusk to Dawn light uses
                      > about $120 electricity per year if run all night every night. So
                      > much light! 210 watts or $700 million a year wasted in the US
                      > estimates http://www.darksky.org/key/keyecon.html
                      >
                      > To get a one year payback, put the old Dusk to Dawn light on a
                      switch
                      > and keep it turned off. When the expensive bulb blows, replace
                      it
                      > with a motion detector flood ($13) and CF flood bulbs (2 for $12)
                      or
                      > other Energy Star lighting. (prices from Lowes.com)
                      >
                      > 6. Recommend you consider purchasing and installing solar
                      screens on
                      > >all windows that open and allow ambient air and sunlight into the
                      building.
                      > >Solar screens reduce solar thermal heat accumulation through
                      windows. Solar
                      > >screens help to reduce the load in HVAC cooling systems.
                      >
                      > Is that the thick dark nylon screening material available
                      everywhere?
                      >
                      > >7. Recommend you consider tinting all windows to reduce
                      solar thermal
                      > >heat accumulation through windows. Window tinting helps to
                      reduce the load
                      > >in HVAC cooling systems.
                      >
                      > Tint all windows that get direct sunlight?
                      >
                      > >8. If budget is a constraint then we recommend our Advanced
                      Control
                      > >Technologies (ACT) powerline carrier control automation system
                      product line
                      > >for automatic control of the site electrical systems. ACT
                      automation
                      > >technology can pay for itself in energy savings in five years or
                      less.
                      > >Automatic lighting control is one of the many features to an ACT
                      automation
                      > >system.
                      >
                      > ??
                      >
                      > >9. Again, if energy conservation or energy savings is a
                      concern at
                      > >this site we recommend these structures be super insulated with
                      radiant
                      > >barrier thermal insulating building materials in order to reduce
                      HVAC load.
                      > >Insulation of a building is the most economic method of reducing
                      monthly
                      > >electric bills on heating and cooling.
                      >
                      > What are the caveats for attic insulation? I had to teach the
                      > handymen how when I don't know myself. Laverne says the weight
                      of
                      > cellulose insulation can make old ceiling sheetrock fall in. I
                      > tested the ceiling for play by pushing up with a stick before
                      > insulating. One was sagging a bit, so we screwed it up better
                      to
                      > rafters and then insulated. No problem. I worried that
                      cellulose
                      > insulation covering the rafters would make it difficult to do
                      later
                      > attic chores, but it settled about 30% in two years. Besides
                      after
                      > initial repairs, not much reason to attic.
                      >
                      > Home Depot will lend you the machine if you buy a houseful same
                      > day. Lowes says it also, but they lie. Is there a local
                      supplier
                      > who beats their price significantly?
                      >
                      > To keep the insulation from clogging soffit vents, should I nail
                      up
                      > little boards to hold it back? Or just not spray near edges? In
                      > other words, does it flow downhill a bit like water?
                      >
                      > They say some light fixtures, when insulated on top, become a fire
                      > hazard. So keep them free of insulation. Is that just recessed
                      > cams? Would flush mount lights and celing fans also be a concern?
                      >
                      > Another caveat is roof leaks and cellulose. Paper absorbs
                      > water. Heavy. Also, they say that the boric acid they soak it
                      with,
                      > (eyewash, Roach Proof), to make it fire resistant, when wet, will
                      eat
                      > through nails. Do I just need to keep on top of any roof
                      > leaks? (Me? Slumlord?)
                      >
                      > Fiberglass insulation also has lots of caveats aside from being
                      more
                      > expensive.
                      >
                      > BTW, Houston's biggest informal school for new landlords/real
                      estate
                      > investors is Rich Club www.richclub.org Monthly meetings turn
                      out
                      > 300 or 400. Most of the volunteer leaders of that group are
                      pushing
                      > their products. I haven't seen anyone pushing an energy
                      > conservation product or service. I would be interested in
                      helping
                      > start a monthly discussion group there on progressive landlord
                      issues.
                      >
                      > >Steven Shepard
                      > >SBT Designs
                      > >25581 IH-10 West
                      > >San Antonio, Texas 78257
                      > >(210) 698-7109
                      > >www.sbtdesigns.com
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >----- Original Message -----
                      > >From: "Nan Hildreth" <nanhildreth@r...>
                      > >To: <hreg@yahoogroups.com>
                      > >Sent: Friday, November 11, 2005 4:03 AM
                      > >Subject: Re: [hreg] Forums on energy conservation? Don't want to
                      sidetrack
                      > >here.
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > > Yes, let's talk about energy efficiency. I'm responsible for
                      five
                      > > > little 50 year old houses with low income tenants. In two of
                      them,
                      > > > the tenants have been struggling to pay $300 electricity.
                      > > >
                      > > > My questions:
                      > > >
                      > > > What will give the biggest efficiency bang for the buck?
                      > > >
                      > > > Shall I better ventilate that attic? Laverne and Brian
                      say "Don't
                      > > > ventilate." But Laverne's Orchid house has a self-cooling
                      (clay
                      > > > tile) roof and expensive foam sprayed into the underside of the
                      > > > roof. Meanwhile I have a new dark asphalt shingle roof with
                      ridge
                      > > > vents, which, I suspect, aren't working for lack of soffit
                      vents and
                      > > > due to ancient gable vents.
                      > > >
                      > > > Can you paint a shingle roof white without it looking terrible,
                      > > > streaked, in a year?
                      > > >
                      > > > How much difference did the interior storm windows make?
                      > > >
                      > > > How did you keep you utility bills to 30% of your neighbors?
                      > > >
                      > > > At 09:14 AM 11/6/2005, Todd wrote:
                      > > >>I have lots of questions and ideas about conserving energy, not
                      > > >>necessarily related to renewable energy. While I've learned a
                      lot
                      > > >>here, I don't want to be off-topic. Does anybody know of
                      another forum
                      > > >>more for saving energy regardless of the source?
                      > > >>
                      > > >>I'm very interested in home-made solar (yes, that's renewable)
                      water
                      > > >>heat for my building and for my biodiesel blending process.
                      I'm also
                      > > >>interested in fog spraying AC outside units, water spray
                      cooling roofs
                      > > >>and other ideas.
                      > > >>
                      > > >>I have had positive experience with radiant barriers in regular
                      > > >>atticks, white roofs (flat roof building), interior storm
                      windows and
                      > > >>timers on the water heater.
                      > > >>
                      > > >>This is not how I make my living but I've wondered about it
                      > > >>sometimes. I designed and built a 3600 square foot home on
                      the bayou
                      > > >>with gobs of windows and saw $125/mo average utilities ($100 in
                      > > >>summer) when friends built almost identical houses with the
                      same crew
                      > > >>and were happy to be at $280/month and typically bust through
                      $300.
                      > > >>
                      > > >>I want to learn from others and want to share what I have
                      learned.
                      > > >>Thanks.
                      > > >>
                      > > >>Todd T
                      > > >>
                      > > >>
                      > > >>
                      > > >>
                      > > >>
                      > > >>
                      > > >>
                      > > >>Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > > >>
                      > > >>
                      > > >>
                      > > >>
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > Nan Hildreth, Houston
                      > > > 713-842-6643 NanHildreth@r...
                      > > > 713-443-3104 cell
                      > > > 3939 Luca St.
                      > > > Houston, Tx 77021
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      > Nan Hildreth, Houston
                      > 713-842-6643 NanHildreth@r...
                      > 713-443-3104 cell
                      > 3939 Luca St.
                      > Houston, Tx 77021
                      >
                    • Mike Schmitt
                      What heating schedule does the timer have? I am very interested in it. Mike Schmitt www.54lincolncapri.com ... From: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                      Message 10 of 14 , Nov 13, 2005
                      • 0 Attachment
                        What heating schedule does the timer have? I am very interested in it.



                        Mike Schmitt
                        www.54lincolncapri.com

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Todd
                        Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2005 2:17 PM
                        To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: [hreg] Re: Forums on energy conservation? Don't want to sidetrack
                        here.

                        A 12-month return on investment is tough. I usually work on a 36
                        month payback scheme. I can think of two things: gas space heater
                        and water heater timer.

                        My loft (1913 building) has electric heat and air. I bought a
                        30,000 vent free gas heater... one of the fake logs made by Pro-Com
                        available at Northern Tool. I haven't compared my bills but
                        according to the gas company, my total cost of heating this 1500
                        square foot area, not including use of the gas dryer, is only $180
                        per year using CURRENT pricing. Not bad, though I'm wanting to cut
                        that further by radiant heating and some solar work.

                        Check most electric water heater energy efficiency tags for
                        operating costs. Most would eat up $65 to $75 a month at current
                        rates. I added a timer that comes on for only 15 minutes each
                        morning. This is more than enough for a shower, though I live
                        alone. A manual on/off is used for washing dishes and clothes. I
                        also turned the thermometer to the lowest setting. When I shower, I
                        just turn it to max hot water and it is the right temp.

                        How did I build in so much effiency in my 3600 sq. ft. house with a
                        3 year payback? I went Buick LeSabre on everything. I didn't go
                        hog wild on SEER, etc. I just went 'better' on some things.

                        A few details:
                        2x6 stud walls, 24" OC
                        12 SEER AC units, back then this was 'pretty good'
                        Insulation- blown in cellulose wasn't available then. Used
                        fiberglas but also did the full caulk and expandable foam in all
                        openings.
                        Windows- all double paned, low E glass. Downstairs used Kolbe &
                        Kolbe argon filled alum. clad wood windows. Upstairs General
                        Aluminum double glazed, low E with thermal breaks. Nice heavy rails
                        and stiles blended visually with the real wood windows downstairs.
                        8" blown cellulose insulation in attic, added more later
                        Continous ridge and soffit vents. Baffles in EVERY rafter bay

                        The first summer we saw $85 power and $15 gas bills, $.07/kwh rates
                        back in 1994. The winter heating costs were higher ironically.
                        Overall, $125/month total utilities for the first full 12 months in
                        the house.

                        The following spring I added more cellulose in the attic... 12" to
                        15" everywhere. I also added Solar Shield stapled directly to the
                        rafters. Gaps were left at the top for venting.

                        Unfortunately, we divorced and sold the house in '97. The buyers
                        have told their neighbors about how impressed they are with the
                        efficiency. My energy efficiency measures paid for themselves in 36
                        months... just about how long I lived there! Bummer.

                        In my building, I was getting cooked by the sun. The roof is also
                        the ceiling! Painting with white mobile home roof coating helped so
                        much... but not applicable for those with shingles. The interior
                        storm windows were a 38 to 42 month payback but worth it just to get
                        the sound deadening benefit. My building is right next to the
                        railroad... and I couldn't talk on the phone with their horn blaring.

                        I paid a crew to install my interior storm windows. There are now
                        sources to do it yourself. That may bring it back to a 18 month
                        payback.

                        I added 6" of fiberglas to the joist bays beneath the loft. This is
                        just laid into bays, held up by some waferboard which resting on
                        some 1x2's nailed onto the joists. I'm adding some 1" styrofoam
                        type insulation as I can afford it. These are odd size bays so I
                        use the culls from the local lumberyard.

                        I hope to add radiant heating with pex lines, then the foil backed
                        foam boards, plus keep the 6" fiberglass.

                        As I may have mentioned elsewhere, my goal is to have a diesel
                        generator running on WVO or biodiesel. Louisiana just put net-
                        metering rules into place this month. Just in time!

                        Todd

                        --- In hreg@yahoogroups.com, Nan Hildreth <nanhildreth@r...> wrote:
                        >
                        > There is so much I can do to improve energy efficiency in my
                        houses,
                        > where do I start? What gives a payback of < 1 year?
                        >
                        > Thanks for your suggestions. Below more comments.
                        >
                        > At 09:55 AM 11/11/2005, SBT Designs wrote:
                        > <snip>
                        > 3. Recommend solar lighting for all outdoor lighting
                        applications at
                        > >this site. Solar lighting requires no digging, trenching, no
                        power lines
                        > >through the air, no electric meter, no monthly electric bill and
                        solar
                        > >lighting continues to function even when the electric utility
                        goes down due
                        > >to maintenance issues or bad weather conditions. Solar lighting
                        for safety.
                        >
                        > What is cost and availability? Real Goods has one for
                        > $600. Ugh. But on underwired old houses deduct $100 or more for
                        > not having to run wires, giving this Mercedes Benz a 4 year
                        > payback. The common old mercury vapor Dusk to Dawn light uses
                        > about $120 electricity per year if run all night every night. So
                        > much light! 210 watts or $700 million a year wasted in the US
                        > estimates http://www.darksky.org/key/keyecon.html
                        >
                        > To get a one year payback, put the old Dusk to Dawn light on a
                        switch
                        > and keep it turned off. When the expensive bulb blows, replace
                        it
                        > with a motion detector flood ($13) and CF flood bulbs (2 for $12)
                        or
                        > other Energy Star lighting. (prices from Lowes.com)
                        >
                        > 6. Recommend you consider purchasing and installing solar
                        screens on
                        > >all windows that open and allow ambient air and sunlight into the
                        building.
                        > >Solar screens reduce solar thermal heat accumulation through
                        windows. Solar
                        > >screens help to reduce the load in HVAC cooling systems.
                        >
                        > Is that the thick dark nylon screening material available
                        everywhere?
                        >
                        > >7. Recommend you consider tinting all windows to reduce
                        solar thermal
                        > >heat accumulation through windows. Window tinting helps to
                        reduce the load
                        > >in HVAC cooling systems.
                        >
                        > Tint all windows that get direct sunlight?
                        >
                        > >8. If budget is a constraint then we recommend our Advanced
                        Control
                        > >Technologies (ACT) powerline carrier control automation system
                        product line
                        > >for automatic control of the site electrical systems. ACT
                        automation
                        > >technology can pay for itself in energy savings in five years or
                        less.
                        > >Automatic lighting control is one of the many features to an ACT
                        automation
                        > >system.
                        >
                        > ??
                        >
                        > >9. Again, if energy conservation or energy savings is a
                        concern at
                        > >this site we recommend these structures be super insulated with
                        radiant
                        > >barrier thermal insulating building materials in order to reduce
                        HVAC load.
                        > >Insulation of a building is the most economic method of reducing
                        monthly
                        > >electric bills on heating and cooling.
                        >
                        > What are the caveats for attic insulation? I had to teach the
                        > handymen how when I don't know myself. Laverne says the weight
                        of
                        > cellulose insulation can make old ceiling sheetrock fall in. I
                        > tested the ceiling for play by pushing up with a stick before
                        > insulating. One was sagging a bit, so we screwed it up better
                        to
                        > rafters and then insulated. No problem. I worried that
                        cellulose
                        > insulation covering the rafters would make it difficult to do
                        later
                        > attic chores, but it settled about 30% in two years. Besides
                        after
                        > initial repairs, not much reason to attic.
                        >
                        > Home Depot will lend you the machine if you buy a houseful same
                        > day. Lowes says it also, but they lie. Is there a local
                        supplier
                        > who beats their price significantly?
                        >
                        > To keep the insulation from clogging soffit vents, should I nail
                        up
                        > little boards to hold it back? Or just not spray near edges? In
                        > other words, does it flow downhill a bit like water?
                        >
                        > They say some light fixtures, when insulated on top, become a fire
                        > hazard. So keep them free of insulation. Is that just recessed
                        > cams? Would flush mount lights and celing fans also be a concern?
                        >
                        > Another caveat is roof leaks and cellulose. Paper absorbs
                        > water. Heavy. Also, they say that the boric acid they soak it
                        with,
                        > (eyewash, Roach Proof), to make it fire resistant, when wet, will
                        eat
                        > through nails. Do I just need to keep on top of any roof
                        > leaks? (Me? Slumlord?)
                        >
                        > Fiberglass insulation also has lots of caveats aside from being
                        more
                        > expensive.
                        >
                        > BTW, Houston's biggest informal school for new landlords/real
                        estate
                        > investors is Rich Club www.richclub.org Monthly meetings turn
                        out
                        > 300 or 400. Most of the volunteer leaders of that group are
                        pushing
                        > their products. I haven't seen anyone pushing an energy
                        > conservation product or service. I would be interested in
                        helping
                        > start a monthly discussion group there on progressive landlord
                        issues.
                        >
                        > >Steven Shepard
                        > >SBT Designs
                        > >25581 IH-10 West
                        > >San Antonio, Texas 78257
                        > >(210) 698-7109
                        > >www.sbtdesigns.com
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >----- Original Message -----
                        > >From: "Nan Hildreth" <nanhildreth@r...>
                        > >To: <hreg@yahoogroups.com>
                        > >Sent: Friday, November 11, 2005 4:03 AM
                        > >Subject: Re: [hreg] Forums on energy conservation? Don't want to
                        sidetrack
                        > >here.
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > > Yes, let's talk about energy efficiency. I'm responsible for
                        five
                        > > > little 50 year old houses with low income tenants. In two of
                        them,
                        > > > the tenants have been struggling to pay $300 electricity.
                        > > >
                        > > > My questions:
                        > > >
                        > > > What will give the biggest efficiency bang for the buck?
                        > > >
                        > > > Shall I better ventilate that attic? Laverne and Brian
                        say "Don't
                        > > > ventilate." But Laverne's Orchid house has a self-cooling
                        (clay
                        > > > tile) roof and expensive foam sprayed into the underside of the
                        > > > roof. Meanwhile I have a new dark asphalt shingle roof with
                        ridge
                        > > > vents, which, I suspect, aren't working for lack of soffit
                        vents and
                        > > > due to ancient gable vents.
                        > > >
                        > > > Can you paint a shingle roof white without it looking terrible,
                        > > > streaked, in a year?
                        > > >
                        > > > How much difference did the interior storm windows make?
                        > > >
                        > > > How did you keep you utility bills to 30% of your neighbors?
                        > > >
                        > > > At 09:14 AM 11/6/2005, Todd wrote:
                        > > >>I have lots of questions and ideas about conserving energy, not
                        > > >>necessarily related to renewable energy. While I've learned a
                        lot
                        > > >>here, I don't want to be off-topic. Does anybody know of
                        another forum
                        > > >>more for saving energy regardless of the source?
                        > > >>
                        > > >>I'm very interested in home-made solar (yes, that's renewable)
                        water
                        > > >>heat for my building and for my biodiesel blending process.
                        I'm also
                        > > >>interested in fog spraying AC outside units, water spray
                        cooling roofs
                        > > >>and other ideas.
                        > > >>
                        > > >>I have had positive experience with radiant barriers in regular
                        > > >>atticks, white roofs (flat roof building), interior storm
                        windows and
                        > > >>timers on the water heater.
                        > > >>
                        > > >>This is not how I make my living but I've wondered about it
                        > > >>sometimes. I designed and built a 3600 square foot home on
                        the bayou
                        > > >>with gobs of windows and saw $125/mo average utilities ($100 in
                        > > >>summer) when friends built almost identical houses with the
                        same crew
                        > > >>and were happy to be at $280/month and typically bust through
                        $300.
                        > > >>
                        > > >>I want to learn from others and want to share what I have
                        learned.
                        > > >>Thanks.
                        > > >>
                        > > >>Todd T
                        > > >>
                        > > >>
                        > > >>
                        > > >>
                        > > >>
                        > > >>
                        > > >>
                        > > >>Yahoo! Groups Links
                        > > >>
                        > > >>
                        > > >>
                        > > >>
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > Nan Hildreth, Houston
                        > > > 713-842-6643 NanHildreth@r...
                        > > > 713-443-3104 cell
                        > > > 3939 Luca St.
                        > > > Houston, Tx 77021
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        > Nan Hildreth, Houston
                        > 713-842-6643 NanHildreth@r...
                        > 713-443-3104 cell
                        > 3939 Luca St.
                        > Houston, Tx 77021
                        >








                        Yahoo! Groups Links







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                      • Todd
                        Here is a link to the timer I m using on the electric water heater: http://www.homedepot.com/prel80/HDUS/EN_US/diy_main/pg_diy.jsp?
                        Message 11 of 14 , Nov 13, 2005
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Here is a link to the timer I'm using on the electric water heater:
                          http://www.homedepot.com/prel80/HDUS/EN_US/diy_main/pg_diy.jsp?
                          CNTTYPE=PROD_META&CNTKEY=misc%
                          2fsearchResults.jsp&BV_SessionID=@@@@0063450268.1131929888@@@@&BV_Eng
                          ineID=ccckaddgelkijdfcgelceffdfgidgki.0&MID=987

                          Here's the Home Depot product info:Intermatic, 40 Amp,
                          125/208/240/277 Volt AC Water Heater Time Switch
                          Model WH40D89

                          Price: $39.97

                          It uses a 24 hour rotary dial and pins to click on and off the power
                          to the appliance. There is a mechanical on/off arm as well. I'm
                          only using one set of on/off pins but I think it came with three or
                          four sets.

                          I find my 40 gallon water heater doesn't take more than 15 minutes
                          or so to heat up.

                          Todd
                          --- In hreg@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Schmitt" <1954lincoln@e...> wrote:
                          >
                          > What heating schedule does the timer have? I am very interested
                          in it.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Mike Schmitt
                          > www.54lincolncapri.com
                          > '
                        • Steve Stelzer
                          Nan, I would venture to say that the biggest bang for your energy buck to update an old house would be to install R-30 attic insulation, and put solar screens
                          Message 12 of 14 , Nov 13, 2005
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Nan, I would venture to say that the biggest bang for your energy buck to
                            update an old house would be to install R-30 attic insulation, and put solar
                            screens on the windows. Checking the AC system for leaks and making sure
                            the ducts are fully insulated would also be worth the service call.
                            Properly installed R-30 in the attic (with an insulated access opening) will
                            mitigate the thermal transfer from the boiling attic into the living space.
                            It also takes the light shingles and the radiant barrier issues out of the
                            equation. The solar screens will mitigate the radiant energy deposits thru
                            the windows into the space. These two items will significantly lower the
                            heat load for the AC system to cool. Checking the AC system to make sure it
                            is working properly will lower the bills also. This will satisfy the 80/20
                            rule to get 80% of your desired result with 20% of your effort.

                            Steve Stelzer

                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Nan
                            Hildreth
                            Sent: Friday, November 11, 2005 4:04 AM
                            To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [hreg] Forums on energy conservation? Don't want to
                            sidetrack here.


                            Yes, let's talk about energy efficiency. I'm responsible for five
                            little 50 year old houses with low income tenants. In two of them,
                            the tenants have been struggling to pay $300 electricity.

                            My questions:

                            What will give the biggest efficiency bang for the buck?

                            Shall I better ventilate that attic? Laverne and Brian say "Don't
                            ventilate." But Laverne's Orchid house has a self-cooling (clay
                            tile) roof and expensive foam sprayed into the underside of the
                            roof. Meanwhile I have a new dark asphalt shingle roof with ridge
                            vents, which, I suspect, aren't working for lack of soffit vents and
                            due to ancient gable vents.

                            Can you paint a shingle roof white without it looking terrible,
                            streaked, in a year?

                            How much difference did the interior storm windows make?

                            How did you keep you utility bills to 30% of your neighbors?

                            At 09:14 AM 11/6/2005, Todd wrote:
                            >I have lots of questions and ideas about conserving energy, not
                            >necessarily related to renewable energy. While I've learned a lot
                            >here, I don't want to be off-topic. Does anybody know of another forum
                            >more for saving energy regardless of the source?
                            >
                            >I'm very interested in home-made solar (yes, that's renewable) water
                            >heat for my building and for my biodiesel blending process. I'm also
                            >interested in fog spraying AC outside units, water spray cooling roofs
                            >and other ideas.
                            >
                            >I have had positive experience with radiant barriers in regular
                            >atticks, white roofs (flat roof building), interior storm windows and
                            >timers on the water heater.
                            >
                            >This is not how I make my living but I've wondered about it
                            >sometimes. I designed and built a 3600 square foot home on the bayou
                            >with gobs of windows and saw $125/mo average utilities ($100 in
                            >summer) when friends built almost identical houses with the same crew
                            >and were happy to be at $280/month and typically bust through $300.
                            >
                            >I want to learn from others and want to share what I have learned.
                            >Thanks.
                            >
                            >Todd T
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >


                            Nan Hildreth, Houston
                            713-842-6643 NanHildreth@...
                            713-443-3104 cell
                            3939 Luca St.
                            Houston, Tx 77021







                            Yahoo! Groups Links
                          • John Miggins
                            Good ideas, I was a proponent of timers for water heaters and recommended them. I was told that there is a requirement that hot water heaters maintain 120
                            Message 13 of 14 , Nov 13, 2005
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Good ideas, I was a proponent of timers for water heaters and recommended
                              them. I was told that there is a requirement that hot water heaters
                              maintain 120 degrees minimum for bacteria and other dangerous microorganisms
                              to minimize their build up.

                              Not sure how they would build up, and what the difference between this and
                              cold water storage but thought that I would pass this on. It was from a
                              State of Texas health department recommendation.

                              Use your own judgement, just don't drink the hot water.



                              John Miggins
                              Harvest Solar & Wind Power
                              "renewable solutions to everyday needs"
                              www.harvest-energy.com
                              Phone/Fax 918-743-2299
                              Cell: 918-521-6223

                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: "Todd" <toddt58@...>
                              To: <hreg@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2005 7:07 PM
                              Subject: [hreg] Re: Forums on energy conservation? Don't want to sidetrack
                              here.


                              > Here is a link to the timer I'm using on the electric water heater:
                              > http://www.homedepot.com/prel80/HDUS/EN_US/diy_main/pg_diy.jsp?
                              > CNTTYPE=PROD_META&CNTKEY=misc%
                              > 2fsearchResults.jsp&BV_SessionID=@@@@0063450268.1131929888@@@@&BV_Eng
                              > ineID=ccckaddgelkijdfcgelceffdfgidgki.0&MID=987
                              >
                              > Here's the Home Depot product info:Intermatic, 40 Amp,
                              > 125/208/240/277 Volt AC Water Heater Time Switch
                              > Model WH40D89
                              >
                              > Price: $39.97
                              >
                              > It uses a 24 hour rotary dial and pins to click on and off the power
                              > to the appliance. There is a mechanical on/off arm as well. I'm
                              > only using one set of on/off pins but I think it came with three or
                              > four sets.
                              >
                              > I find my 40 gallon water heater doesn't take more than 15 minutes
                              > or so to heat up.
                              >
                              > Todd
                              > --- In hreg@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Schmitt" <1954lincoln@e...> wrote:
                              >>
                              >> What heating schedule does the timer have? I am very interested
                              > in it.
                              >>
                              >>
                              >>
                              >> Mike Schmitt
                              >> www.54lincolncapri.com
                              >> '
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                            • Todd
                              I hadn t thought of bacterial growth. Oh well, I don t drink the water anyway. We call it soup dujour around here. I wonder about using an activated
                              Message 14 of 14 , Nov 13, 2005
                              • 0 Attachment
                                I hadn't thought of bacterial growth. Oh well, I don't drink the
                                water anyway. We call it soup dujour around here.

                                I wonder about using an activated cartridge filter.... to grab the
                                chlorine and other contaminants? Just wondering.

                                Todd

                                --- In hreg@yahoogroups.com, "John Miggins" <jmiggins@c...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Good ideas, I was a proponent of timers for water heaters and
                                recommended
                                > them. I was told that there is a requirement that hot water
                                heaters
                                > maintain 120 degrees minimum for bacteria and other dangerous
                                microorganisms
                                > to minimize their build up.
                                >
                                > Not sure how they would build up, and what the difference between
                                this and
                                > cold water storage but thought that I would pass this on. It was
                                from a
                                > State of Texas health department recommendation.
                                >
                                > Use your own judgement, just don't drink the hot water.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > John Miggins
                                > Harvest Solar & Wind Power
                                > "renewable solutions to everyday needs"
                                > www.harvest-energy.com
                                > Phone/Fax 918-743-2299
                                > Cell: 918-521-6223
                                >
                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                > From: "Todd" <toddt58@y...>
                                > To: <hreg@yahoogroups.com>
                                > Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2005 7:07 PM
                                > Subject: [hreg] Re: Forums on energy conservation? Don't want to
                                sidetrack
                                > here.
                                >
                                >
                                > > Here is a link to the timer I'm using on the electric water
                                heater:
                                > > http://www.homedepot.com/prel80/HDUS/EN_US/diy_main/pg_diy.jsp?
                                > > CNTTYPE=PROD_META&CNTKEY=misc%
                                > >
                                2fsearchResults.jsp&BV_SessionID=@@@@0063450268.1131929888@@@@&BV_Eng
                                > > ineID=ccckaddgelkijdfcgelceffdfgidgki.0&MID=987
                                > >
                                > > Here's the Home Depot product info:Intermatic, 40 Amp,
                                > > 125/208/240/277 Volt AC Water Heater Time Switch
                                > > Model WH40D89
                                > >
                                > > Price: $39.97
                                > >
                                > > It uses a 24 hour rotary dial and pins to click on and off the
                                power
                                > > to the appliance. There is a mechanical on/off arm as well. I'm
                                > > only using one set of on/off pins but I think it came with three
                                or
                                > > four sets.
                                > >
                                > > I find my 40 gallon water heater doesn't take more than 15
                                minutes
                                > > or so to heat up.
                                > >
                                > > Todd
                                > > --- In hreg@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Schmitt" <1954lincoln@e...>
                                wrote:
                                > >>
                                > >> What heating schedule does the timer have? I am very interested
                                > > in it.
                                > >>
                                > >>
                                > >>
                                > >> Mike Schmitt
                                > >> www.54lincolncapri.com
                                > >> '
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                >
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