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Book for Discussion

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  • Steve Stelzer
    HREG, Has anyone read James Howard Kunstler s The Long Emergency - Surviving the Converging Catastrophes of the Twenty-First Century ? I m stunned after just
    Message 1 of 7 , Aug 28, 2005
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      HREG,
       
      Has anyone read James Howard Kunstler's "The Long Emergency - Surviving the Converging Catastrophes of the Twenty-First Century"?  I'm stunned after just finishing it.  It's apocalyptic to say the least.  (Maybe some of you have read his "Home from Nowhere" that he wrote in '96.)  His command of the language is fantastic.  I recommend this book above any others for anyone who is concerned about our future.  I'd like to start a dialogue with anyone about it.
       
      The Contents are as follows: 1) Sleepwalking into the Future 2) Modernity and the Fossil Fuels Dilemma 3) Geopolitics and the Global Oil Peak 4) Beyond Oil: Why Alternative Fuels Won't Rescue Us 5) Nature Bites Back: Climate Changte, Epidemic Disease, Water Scarcity, Habitat Destruction, and the Dark Side of the Industrial Age 6) Running on Fumes: The Hallucinated Economy 7) Living in the Long Emergency.  Take note of chapter 4.  It's jolting.
       
      Regards,
       
      Steve Stelzer 
    • Garth & Kim Travis
      Greetings, I have not had a chance to read the book, but the article he published called the long emergency is one I share with many people. It was great to
      Message 2 of 7 , Aug 29, 2005
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        Greetings,
        I have not had a chance to read the book, but the article he published called the long emergency is one I share with many people.  It was great to find as it confirmed what I believe is coming.  My husband and I have been studying and working to change our life to one that is sustainable without dino fuels. 

        What I find most people don't understand is how dependent the food supply is on oil.  Very few farmers know the old methods that don't require humongous amounts of oil.  Most produce commodities, not food. 

        The recent hike is fuel prices has stopped the laughter.  Funny how those who were laughing at us a mere year ago are now taking a second look at what we are doing and starting to ask questions.  We are not holding the laughter against anyone, we would like more people to know how to live without the excessive use of oil.

        Bright Blessings,
        Kim


        At 09:19 PM 8/28/2005, you wrote:
        HREG,
         
        Has anyone read James Howard Kunstler's "The Long Emergency - Surviving the Converging Catastrophes of the Twenty-First Century"?  I'm stunned after just finishing it.  It's apocalyptic to say the least.  (Maybe some of you have read his "Home from Nowhere" that he wrote in '96.)  His command of the language is fantastic.  I recommend this book above any others for anyone who is concerned about our future.  I'd like to start a dialogue with anyone about it.
         
        The Contents are as follows: 1) Sleepwalking into the Future 2) Modernity and the Fossil Fuels Dilemma 3) Geopolitics and the Global Oil Peak 4) Beyond Oil: Why Alternative Fuels Won't Rescue Us 5) Nature Bites Back: Climate Changte, Epidemic Disease, Water Scarcity, Habitat Destruction, and the Dark Side of the Industrial Age 6) Running on Fumes: The Hallucinated Economy 7) Living in the Long Emergency.  Take note of chapter 4.  It's jolting.
         
        Regards,
         
        Steve Stelzer


        YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



      • Roxanne Boyer
        Steve , I believe the end of cheap oil is real, however, I don t believe that it will cause a collapse in society. Firstly, the answers are available - the
        Message 3 of 7 , Aug 29, 2005
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          Steve
          ,
          I believe the end of cheap oil is real, however, I don't believe that it will cause a collapse in society.  Firstly, the answers are available - the sun gives us plenty of energy and we will learn to harness it to our use.  Mankind has faced many challenges, but overcome them all.  There may be an instability in the monetary system, however, it won't kill you.  Many may find what they think are hardships, but are really just adjustments to a different lifestyle.  If there is a "collapse", we will find our way back.
           
          The title of Chapter 4 sounds threatening.  I didn't read the book, but I have read many books about energy systems.  Perhaps the author's point is that alternative energy sources will not rescue us, because he thinks they can not behave like oil.  That is kind of like saying that the automobile has never been able to replace the horse.  And, in a way, the automobile does not give such satisfaction as riding a horse to those that love horses (I've never seen a drunk hurt anyone else on a horse - except themselves when they fall off).  My point is that alterative sources of energy will be different from oil, but they WILL be able to provide us with the energy we need.
           
          In the 70's and 80's, the government sponsored research that developed a host of technologies including solar thermal, solar PV, wind, ethanol, biodiesel, biomass syngass, etc. that can give us energy security.  Those technologies have been put on the shelf because they require an investment and why make the investment when we have already invested in oil?  As investing in oil provides a lower and lower return, people will start investing in other alternative energy sources and the technologies to harness them.
           
          Regards,
          Chris
           

          Steve Stelzer <stelman@...> wrote:
          HREG,
           
          Has anyone read James Howard Kunstler's "The Long Emergency - Surviving the Converging Catastrophes of the Twenty-First Century"?  I'm stunned after just finishing it.  It's apocalyptic to say the least.  (Maybe some of you have read his "Home from Nowhere" that he wrote in '96.)  His command of the language is fantastic.  I recommend this book above any others for anyone who is concerned about our future.  I'd like to start a dialogue with anyone about it.
           
          The Contents are as follows: 1) Sleepwalking into the Future 2) Modernity and the Fossil Fuels Dilemma 3) Geopolitics and the Global Oil Peak 4) Beyond Oil: Why Alternative Fuels Won't Rescue Us 5) Nature Bites Back: Climate Changte, Epidemic Disease, Water Scarcity, Habitat Destruction, and the Dark Side of the Industrial Age 6) Running on Fumes: The Hallucinated Economy 7) Living in the Long Emergency.  Take note of chapter 4.  It's jolting.
           
          Regards,
           
          Steve Stelzer 
        • Israel Palacios
          I agree with Roxanne, but I think those that can afford it will be able to adjust much easier than those that cannot. The government and millions of Americans
          Message 4 of 7 , Aug 29, 2005
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            I agree with Roxanne, but I think those that can afford it will be able to adjust much easier than those that cannot.  The government and millions of Americans are bankrupt, living on Asian financed credit. Like that Discover card, our “collective” credit has been maxed out.  IMF will sell off America one piece at a time to the highest bidders just like Argentina.  Also I wonder who will be able to afford the conversion?  The same countries where are capital is flowing, will surely be able to afford it. The richest 2% of our population might be able to afford it if the dollar is still worth anything.  If it is I doubt that the benevolence of the wealthiest will be enough to stave off an energy induced crash or even a gentle tumble.  We have become a country of lazy idiots that grow more hostile and aggressive daily.  Fear and anxiety based racial and xenophobic ideologies and feelings are beginning to make their way into popular culture.  People are starting to point fingers at some of the hardest working and the overwhelmingly powerless portion of the population.  They have become the scapegoat because of our societal arrogance, ignorance, and self righteousness.  Most of us including the “majority” find it difficult to accept that we are soley responsible for the situation we find ourselves.  Many are unable or unwilling to accept that our individual actions or inactions have contributed to the scenario that will soon unfold.  Nobody knows how the future will play out but I feel that we are too late in the game to brace ourselves for the impact…..except for a few of us anyway.  . 

             


            From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Roxanne Boyer
            Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 9:49 PM
            To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [hreg] Book for Discussion

             

            Steve

            ,

            I believe the end of cheap oil is real, however, I don't believe that it will cause a collapse in society.  Firstly, the answers are available - the sun gives us plenty of energy and we will learn to harness it to our use.  Mankind has faced many challenges, but overcome them all.  There may be an instability in the monetary system, however, it won't kill you.  Many may find what they think are hardships, but are really just adjustments to a different lifestyle.  If there is a "collapse", we will find our way back.

             

            The title of Chapter 4 sounds threatening.  I didn't read the book, but I have read many books about energy systems.  Perhaps the author's point is that alternative energy sources will not rescue us, because he thinks they can not behave like oil.  That is kind of like saying that the automobile has never been able to replace the horse.  And, in a way, the automobile does not give such satisfaction as riding a horse to those that love horses (I've never seen a drunk hurt anyone else on a horse - except themselves when they fall off).  My point is that alterative sources of energy will be different from oil, but they WILL be able to provide us with the energy we need.

             

            In the 70's and 80's, the government sponsored research that developed a host of technologies including solar thermal, solar PV, wind, ethanol, biodiesel, biomass syngass, etc. that can give us energy security.  Those technologies have been put on the shelf because they require an investment and why make the investment when we have already invested in oil?  As investing in oil provides a lower and lower return, people will start investing in other alternative energy sources and the technologies to harness them.

             

            Regards,

            Chris

             


            Steve Stelzer <stelman@...> wrote:

            HREG,

             

            Has anyone read James Howard Kunstler's "The Long Emergency - Surviving the Converging Catastrophes of the Twenty-First Century"?  I'm stunned after just finishing it.  It's apocalyptic to say the least.  (Maybe some of you have read his "Home from Nowhere" that he wrote in '96.)  His command of the language is fantastic.  I recommend this book above any others for anyone who is concerned about our future.  I'd like to start a dialogue with anyone about it.

             

            The Contents are as follows: 1) Sleepwalking into the Future 2) Modernity and the Fossil Fuels Dilemma 3) Geopolitics and the Global Oil Peak 4) Beyond Oil: Why Alternative Fuels Won't Rescue Us 5) Nature Bites Back: Climate Changte, Epidemic Disease, Water Scarcity, Habitat Destruction, and the Dark Side of the Industrial Age 6) Running on Fumes: The Hallucinated Economy 7) Living in the Long Emergency.  Take note of chapter 4.  It's jolting.

             

            Regards,

             

            Steve Stelzer 

             

          • Nan Hildreth
            Yes, I fear peak oil will be a rude awakening for many. Pride goes before a fall. You are invited to join our Houston Peak Oil list for more discussion on
            Message 5 of 7 , Aug 30, 2005
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              Yes, I fear peak oil will be a rude awakening for many.  Pride goes before a fall.  

              You are invited to join our Houston Peak Oil list for more discussion on this topic.   Either go to Http://lists.riseup.net/www/info/HoustonPeakOil   or send an email to
              sympa@...
              with subject line subscribe HoustonPeakOil 


              At 11:08 PM 08/29/2005, Israel Palacios wrote:
              I agree with Roxanne, but I think those that can afford it will be able to adjust much easier than those that cannot.  The government and millions of Americans are bankrupt, living on Asian financed credit. Like that Discover card, our “collective” credit has been maxed out.  IMF will sell off America one piece at a time to the highest bidders just like Argentina.  Also I wonder who will be able to afford the conversion?  The same countries where are capital is flowing, will surely be able to afford it. The richest 2% of our population might be able to afford it if the dollar is still worth anything.  If it is I doubt that the benevolence of the wealthiest will be enough to stave off an energy induced crash or even a gentle tumble.  We have become a country of lazy idiots that grow more hostile and aggressive daily.  Fear and anxiety based racial and xenophobic ideologies and feelings are beginning to make their way into popular culture.  People are starting to point fingers at some of the hardest working and the overwhelmingly powerless portion of the population.  They have become the scapegoat because of our societal arrogance, ignorance, and self righteousness.  Most of us including the “majority” find it difficult to accept that we are soley responsible for the situation we find ourselves.  Many are unable or unwilling to accept that our individual actions or inactions have contributed to the scenario that will soon unfold.  Nobody knows how the future will play out but I feel that we are too late in the game to brace ourselves for the impact…..except for a few of us anyway.  . 
               

              From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [ mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Roxanne Boyer
              Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 9:49 PM
              To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [hreg] Book for Discussion
               
              Steve
              ,
              I believe the end of cheap oil is real, however, I don't believe that it will cause a collapse in society.  Firstly, the answers are available - the sun gives us plenty of energy and we will learn to harness it to our use.  Mankind has faced many challenges, but overcome them all.  There may be an instability in the monetary system, however, it won't kill you.  Many may find what they think are hardships, but are really just adjustments to a different lifestyle.  If there is a "collapse", we will find our way back.
               
              The title of Chapter 4 sounds threatening.  I didn't read the book, but I have read many books about energy systems.  Perhaps the author's point is that alternative energy sources will not rescue us, because he thinks they can not behave like oil.  That is kind of like saying that the automobile has never been able to replace the horse.  And, in a way, the automobile does not give such satisfaction as riding a horse to those that love horses (I've never seen a drunk hurt anyone else on a horse - except themselves when they fall off).  My point is that alterative sources of energy will be different from oil, but they WILL be able to provide us with the energy we need.
               
              In the 70's and 80's, the government sponsored research that developed a host of technologies including solar thermal, solar PV, wind, ethanol, biodiesel, biomass syngass, etc. that can give us energy security.  Those technologies have been put on the shelf because they require an investment and why make the investment when we have already invested in oil?  As investing in oil provides a lower and lower return, people will start investing in other alternative energy sources and the technologies to harness them.
               
              Regards,
              Chris
               

              Steve Stelzer <stelman@...> wrote:
              HREG,
               
              Has anyone read James Howard Kunstler's "The Long Emergency - Surviving the Converging Catastrophes of the Twenty-First Century"?  I'm stunned after just finishing it.  It's apocalyptic to say the least.  (Maybe some of you have read his "Home from Nowhere" that he wrote in '96.)  His command of the language is fantastic.  I recommend this book above any others for anyone who is concerned about our future.  I'd like to start a dialogue with anyone about it.
               
              The Contents are as follows: 1) Sleepwalking into the Future 2) Modernity and the Fossil Fuels Dilemma 3) Geopolitics and the Global Oil Peak 4) Beyond Oil: Why Alternative Fuels Won't Rescue Us 5) Nature Bites Back: Climate Changte, Epidemic Disease, Water Scarcity, Habitat Destruction, and the Dark Side of the Industrial Age 6) Running on Fumes: The Hallucinated Economy 7) Living in the Long Emergency.  Take note of chapter 4.  It's jolting.
               
              Regards,
               
              Steve Stelzer
               


              YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS




              Nan Hildreth, Houston
              713-842-6643   NanHildreth@...
              713-443-3104 cell
              3939 Luca St.
              Houston, Tx 77021


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