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RE: [hreg] what's so great about hybrids?

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  • J. P. Malone
    No economic benefit to a car that gets over 50+ mpg??? Can you explain further this comment? Compared to what? The Prius is not very expensive to purchase by
    Message 1 of 14 , Aug 14, 2005
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      No economic benefit to a car that gets over 50+ mpg??? Can you explain
      further this comment?
      Compared to what?
      The Prius is not very expensive to purchase by comparison to other vehicles,
      such as SUV, etc.
      Without being an Scientist/engineer type, I would think that the fuel dollar
      savings over a 5-6 year period, combined with less depreciation would be an
      economic benefit.

      Currently used Prius are selling for more that the new ones, because of the
      long wait to get a new one. So there is zero depreciation other than
      repairs over the longer term. I have a Toyota which has had minimal repairs
      over 10 years.

      Please explain, I must be missing a major point. Thanks.

      J. Patrick Malone

      -----Original Message-----
      From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Robert
      Johnston
      Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 7:06 AM
      To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [hreg] what's so great about hybrids?

      I drove by my local Exxon yesterday and saw regular at $2.50/gal. Granny
      will probably croak next time she tanks up.

      I don't know much about cars, but what was the performance like on your
      Civic VX? If I recall correctly, its technology gave it better performance
      than other small, efficient cars like the Geo Metro. But I think the
      hybrids today are offering even better performance, aren't they? I'm
      assuming that is the draw. By performance I'm referring to acceleration,
      mostly. I have a colleague who drives a Prius and she said she bought it
      because she liked the technology, bells and whistles. It was "cool". She
      readily admitted there wasn't any economic benefit. She's also a
      scientist/engineer type.

      Robert Johnston


      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paul
      > Archer
      > Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2005 10:06 PM
      > To: Houston RE Group
      > Subject: [hreg] what's so great about hybrids?
      >
      > (Forgive me if I've asked this question before. I think I brought it up in
      > another forum, but it might have been here.)
      >
      > While reading an interesting article on someone modifying his Toyota
      > Prius,
      > I noticed that according to the article, typical mileage is 45mpg.
      > According
      > to Edmunds, it's 51mpg highway / 60mpg city.
      > While those are very good numbers, I had a '92 Civic VX that got 48mpg
      > city/57mpg highway. That's not quite as good as a hybrid, but it's pretty
      > damn good for a regular car.
      > So are people enamored of hybrids because it's new technology, or because
      > of
      > a promise of much great fuel efficiency, or what? And why isn't the
      > technology in the '92 Civic VX being used in practically every car out
      > there?
      > And while I'm ranting, why the hell was a little granny driving a Nissan
      > 5.6L V8 SUV on the road next to me yesterday? What is up with this "bigger
      > is better, so blotting out the sun huge is best" mentality?
      >
      > Paul Archer
      >
      >
      >
      > ----------------------------------------------
      > "We Americans, we're a simple people...
      > but piss us off, and we'll bomb your cities."
      > --------------Robin Williams------------------
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >






      Yahoo! Groups Links







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    • Paul Archer
      ... Not the greatest, but not bad for an econo-box. It had a pretty peppy 1.6L engine. It s efficiency came from 1) low-friction tires, 2) a very-low-drag body
      Message 2 of 14 , Aug 14, 2005
      • 0 Attachment
        7:06am, Robert Johnston wrote:

        > I drove by my local Exxon yesterday and saw regular at $2.50/gal. Granny
        > will probably croak next time she tanks up.
        >
        > I don't know much about cars, but what was the performance like on your
        > Civic VX?

        Not the greatest, but not bad for an econo-box. It had a pretty peppy 1.6L
        engine. It's efficiency came from 1) low-friction tires, 2) a very-low-drag
        body design, and 3) a 4 valve per cylinder engine that could cut off one
        exhaust valve during cruising.



        If I recall correctly, its technology gave it better performance
        > than other small, efficient cars like the Geo Metro. But I think the
        > hybrids today are offering even better performance, aren't they? I'm
        > assuming that is the draw. By performance I'm referring to acceleration,
        > mostly. I have a colleague who drives a Prius and she said she bought it
        > because she liked the technology, bells and whistles. It was "cool". She
        > readily admitted there wasn't any economic benefit. She's also a
        > scientist/engineer type.
        >
        > Robert Johnston
        >
        >
        >> -----Original Message-----
        >> From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paul
        >> Archer
        >> Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2005 10:06 PM
        >> To: Houston RE Group
        >> Subject: [hreg] what's so great about hybrids?
        >>
        >> (Forgive me if I've asked this question before. I think I brought it up in
        >> another forum, but it might have been here.)
        >>
        >> While reading an interesting article on someone modifying his Toyota
        >> Prius,
        >> I noticed that according to the article, typical mileage is 45mpg.
        >> According
        >> to Edmunds, it's 51mpg highway / 60mpg city.
        >> While those are very good numbers, I had a '92 Civic VX that got 48mpg
        >> city/57mpg highway. That's not quite as good as a hybrid, but it's pretty
        >> damn good for a regular car.
        >> So are people enamored of hybrids because it's new technology, or because
        >> of
        >> a promise of much great fuel efficiency, or what? And why isn't the
        >> technology in the '92 Civic VX being used in practically every car out
        >> there?
        >> And while I'm ranting, why the hell was a little granny driving a Nissan
        >> 5.6L V8 SUV on the road next to me yesterday? What is up with this "bigger
        >> is better, so blotting out the sun huge is best" mentality?
        >>
        >> Paul Archer
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >> ----------------------------------------------
        >> "We Americans, we're a simple people...
        >> but piss us off, and we'll bomb your cities."
        >> --------------Robin Williams------------------
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >> Yahoo! Groups Links
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >

        ---------------------------------------------------------------------
        On the side of the software box, in the "System Requirements" section,
        it said "Requires Windows 95 or better". So I installed Linux.
        ---------------------------------------------------------------------
      • SBT Designs
        I just got back from New Orleans. Regular gas there was $2.69 in many, many locations. Brrrrrrrrrr. $3.00 is on the horizon Steven Shepard SBT Designs 25581
        Message 3 of 14 , Aug 14, 2005
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          I just got back from New Orleans. Regular gas there was $2.69 in many, many
          locations. Brrrrrrrrrr. $3.00 is on the horizon

          Steven Shepard
          SBT Designs
          25581 IH-10 West
          San Antonio, Texas 78257
          (210) 698-7109
          www.sbtdesigns.com

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Robert Johnston" <junk1@...>
          To: <hreg@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 7:06 AM
          Subject: RE: [hreg] what's so great about hybrids?


          I drove by my local Exxon yesterday and saw regular at $2.50/gal. Granny
          will probably croak next time she tanks up.

          I don't know much about cars, but what was the performance like on your
          Civic VX? If I recall correctly, its technology gave it better performance
          than other small, efficient cars like the Geo Metro. But I think the
          hybrids today are offering even better performance, aren't they? I'm
          assuming that is the draw. By performance I'm referring to acceleration,
          mostly. I have a colleague who drives a Prius and she said she bought it
          because she liked the technology, bells and whistles. It was "cool". She
          readily admitted there wasn't any economic benefit. She's also a
          scientist/engineer type.

          Robert Johnston


          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paul
          > Archer
          > Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2005 10:06 PM
          > To: Houston RE Group
          > Subject: [hreg] what's so great about hybrids?
          >
          > (Forgive me if I've asked this question before. I think I brought it up in
          > another forum, but it might have been here.)
          >
          > While reading an interesting article on someone modifying his Toyota
          > Prius,
          > I noticed that according to the article, typical mileage is 45mpg.
          > According
          > to Edmunds, it's 51mpg highway / 60mpg city.
          > While those are very good numbers, I had a '92 Civic VX that got 48mpg
          > city/57mpg highway. That's not quite as good as a hybrid, but it's pretty
          > damn good for a regular car.
          > So are people enamored of hybrids because it's new technology, or because
          > of
          > a promise of much great fuel efficiency, or what? And why isn't the
          > technology in the '92 Civic VX being used in practically every car out
          > there?
          > And while I'm ranting, why the hell was a little granny driving a Nissan
          > 5.6L V8 SUV on the road next to me yesterday? What is up with this "bigger
          > is better, so blotting out the sun huge is best" mentality?
          >
          > Paul Archer
          >
          >
          >
          > ----------------------------------------------
          > "We Americans, we're a simple people...
          > but piss us off, and we'll bomb your cities."
          > --------------Robin Williams------------------
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >






          Yahoo! Groups Links
        • J. P. Malone
          CNN said it is $3 in parts of California. Boone Pickens who has been correct in forecasting the moves through $40, $50 & $60 per barrel for oil, predicted
          Message 4 of 14 , Aug 14, 2005
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            CNN said it is $3 in parts of California. Boone Pickens who has been
            correct in forecasting the moves through $40, $50 & $60 per barrel for oil,
            predicted last week S75 within the next 12 months.

            Wonder how that calcs to per gallon price of gasoline?

            J. Patrick Malone


            -----Original Message-----
            From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of SBT
            Designs
            Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 1:13 PM
            To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [hreg] what's so great about hybrids?

            I just got back from New Orleans. Regular gas there was $2.69 in many, many

            locations. Brrrrrrrrrr. $3.00 is on the horizon

            Steven Shepard
            SBT Designs
            25581 IH-10 West
            San Antonio, Texas 78257
            (210) 698-7109
            www.sbtdesigns.com

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Robert Johnston" <junk1@...>
            To: <hreg@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 7:06 AM
            Subject: RE: [hreg] what's so great about hybrids?


            I drove by my local Exxon yesterday and saw regular at $2.50/gal. Granny
            will probably croak next time she tanks up.

            I don't know much about cars, but what was the performance like on your
            Civic VX? If I recall correctly, its technology gave it better performance
            than other small, efficient cars like the Geo Metro. But I think the
            hybrids today are offering even better performance, aren't they? I'm
            assuming that is the draw. By performance I'm referring to acceleration,
            mostly. I have a colleague who drives a Prius and she said she bought it
            because she liked the technology, bells and whistles. It was "cool". She
            readily admitted there wasn't any economic benefit. She's also a
            scientist/engineer type.

            Robert Johnston


            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paul
            > Archer
            > Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2005 10:06 PM
            > To: Houston RE Group
            > Subject: [hreg] what's so great about hybrids?
            >
            > (Forgive me if I've asked this question before. I think I brought it up in
            > another forum, but it might have been here.)
            >
            > While reading an interesting article on someone modifying his Toyota
            > Prius,
            > I noticed that according to the article, typical mileage is 45mpg.
            > According
            > to Edmunds, it's 51mpg highway / 60mpg city.
            > While those are very good numbers, I had a '92 Civic VX that got 48mpg
            > city/57mpg highway. That's not quite as good as a hybrid, but it's pretty
            > damn good for a regular car.
            > So are people enamored of hybrids because it's new technology, or because
            > of
            > a promise of much great fuel efficiency, or what? And why isn't the
            > technology in the '92 Civic VX being used in practically every car out
            > there?
            > And while I'm ranting, why the hell was a little granny driving a Nissan
            > 5.6L V8 SUV on the road next to me yesterday? What is up with this "bigger
            > is better, so blotting out the sun huge is best" mentality?
            >
            > Paul Archer
            >
            >
            >
            > ----------------------------------------------
            > "We Americans, we're a simple people...
            > but piss us off, and we'll bomb your cities."
            > --------------Robin Williams------------------
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >






            Yahoo! Groups Links











            Yahoo! Groups Links






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            Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.8/71 - Release Date: 8/12/2005


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          • Robert Johnston
            I agree that they are economically attractive. When the premium pricing disappears, they may become significantly more so. But when my colleague purchased
            Message 5 of 14 , Aug 14, 2005
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              I agree that they are economically attractive. When the premium pricing
              disappears, they may become significantly more so. But when my colleague
              purchased her hybrid (early 2005), this wasn't true. If you compared a
              hybrid with a similar car, for example, compared the Honda Civic Hybrid vs.
              the Honda Civic standard, allowing for the difference in price vs. the
              difference in fuel consumption, the hybrid proved to be more expensive to
              own and operate. Comparing a Prius vs. an SUV is not a fair pricing
              comparison; you need to compare comparable vehicles. As for the
              depreciation, that is a transient thing; I wouldn't count on it persisting.
              Prius isn't the first car model that was "hot" for a time. (I remember when
              the Chrysler PT Cruiser first came out and sold for well above MSRP, those
              that got theirs early could flip them for a nice profit or at least not lose
              money to depreciation. But see what they go for now!).

              Just for grins, I redid the numbers as I did before I purchased my Honda
              Civic a few months ago. From Carpoint.com, a base model Civic Hybrid goes
              for $19,900 MSRP and $18,183 base invoice. Good luck getting one for less
              than MSRP, of course! On the other hand, a regular Civic LX 5-spd with
              front side airbags (the closest match I can find to the Hybrid) goes for
              $15,860 MSRP and $14497 retail. Since I just bought a Civic for a couple
              hundred over invoice, I know that is feasible. Just the same, let's be real
              conservative and assume a $4000 difference in cost. If we assume 50:50
              city/hwy driving, then the Civic Hybrid averages 48.5 mpg and the standard
              Civic averages 35 mpg. If we assume you own the car for 100,000 miles, then
              you will save 795 gal. Assume gas at $2.50/gal, and that is $1988 or
              approximately half the difference in cost.

              Now, when I was contemplating purchasing a hybrid, and when my colleague
              actually did purchase one, gas was cheaper. Also, the hybrid tax credit was
              small and disappearing. Today the situation is different. With the new
              energy law and tax credit extension, the $2000 credit would more than cover
              the remaining cost difference, especially when you take into account that it
              is $2000 in post-tax savings whereas gas is purchased with pre-tax dollars.
              So, yes, the hybrid makes economic sense today, whereas it didn't in the
              period I was referring to. (The "economic sense" is artificial, since it is
              just government stimulus, but to the consumer it is real money nonetheless.
              Please don't start an argument on the true cost of oil, etc., either. I'm
              just addressing the consumer's viewpoint).

              It should be noted that unknowns include future resale value, and
              reliability/future maintenance costs of hybrids.

              Maybe someone else will have a different perspective on this.

              Robert Johnston

              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of J.
              > P. Malone
              > Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 9:06 AM
              > To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: RE: [hreg] what's so great about hybrids?
              >
              > No economic benefit to a car that gets over 50+ mpg??? Can you explain
              > further this comment?
              > Compared to what?
              > The Prius is not very expensive to purchase by comparison to other
              > vehicles,
              > such as SUV, etc.
              > Without being an Scientist/engineer type, I would think that the fuel
              > dollar
              > savings over a 5-6 year period, combined with less depreciation would be
              > an
              > economic benefit.
              >
              > Currently used Prius are selling for more that the new ones, because of
              > the
              > long wait to get a new one. So there is zero depreciation other than
              > repairs over the longer term. I have a Toyota which has had minimal
              > repairs
              > over 10 years.
              >
              > Please explain, I must be missing a major point. Thanks.
              >
              > J. Patrick Malone
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
              > Robert
              > Johnston
              > Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 7:06 AM
              > To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: RE: [hreg] what's so great about hybrids?
              >
              > I drove by my local Exxon yesterday and saw regular at $2.50/gal. Granny
              > will probably croak next time she tanks up.
              >
              > I don't know much about cars, but what was the performance like on your
              > Civic VX? If I recall correctly, its technology gave it better
              > performance
              > than other small, efficient cars like the Geo Metro. But I think the
              > hybrids today are offering even better performance, aren't they? I'm
              > assuming that is the draw. By performance I'm referring to acceleration,
              > mostly. I have a colleague who drives a Prius and she said she bought it
              > because she liked the technology, bells and whistles. It was "cool". She
              > readily admitted there wasn't any economic benefit. She's also a
              > scientist/engineer type.
              >
              > Robert Johnston
              >
              >
              > > -----Original Message-----
              > > From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
              > Paul
              > > Archer
              > > Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2005 10:06 PM
              > > To: Houston RE Group
              > > Subject: [hreg] what's so great about hybrids?
              > >
              > > (Forgive me if I've asked this question before. I think I brought it up
              > in
              > > another forum, but it might have been here.)
              > >
              > > While reading an interesting article on someone modifying his Toyota
              > > Prius,
              > > I noticed that according to the article, typical mileage is 45mpg.
              > > According
              > > to Edmunds, it's 51mpg highway / 60mpg city.
              > > While those are very good numbers, I had a '92 Civic VX that got 48mpg
              > > city/57mpg highway. That's not quite as good as a hybrid, but it's
              > pretty
              > > damn good for a regular car.
              > > So are people enamored of hybrids because it's new technology, or
              > because
              > > of
              > > a promise of much great fuel efficiency, or what? And why isn't the
              > > technology in the '92 Civic VX being used in practically every car out
              > > there?
              > > And while I'm ranting, why the hell was a little granny driving a Nissan
              > > 5.6L V8 SUV on the road next to me yesterday? What is up with this
              > "bigger
              > > is better, so blotting out the sun huge is best" mentality?
              > >
              > > Paul Archer
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > ----------------------------------------------
              > > "We Americans, we're a simple people...
              > > but piss us off, and we'll bomb your cities."
              > > --------------Robin Williams------------------
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > --
              > No virus found in this incoming message.
              > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
              > Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.8/71 - Release Date: 8/12/2005
              >
              >
              > --
              > No virus found in this outgoing message.
              > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
              > Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.8/71 - Release Date: 8/12/2005
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
            • Robert Johnston
              Correction: I incorrectly said it was a $2000 tax credit. I just checked the IRS website and it is a $2000 deduction. So the actual after-tax savings for
              Message 6 of 14 , Aug 14, 2005
              • 0 Attachment
                Correction: I incorrectly said it was a $2000 tax credit. I just checked
                the IRS website and it is a $2000 deduction. So the actual after-tax
                savings for people in the 28% tax bracket is $560, not enough to make up the
                difference in cost of the hybrid vs. conventional car. So, I think unless
                gas prices go up considerably more, it still may not make economic sense to
                the consumer (unless you want to gamble on hypothetical advantages in
                depreciation, etc.).

                Robert

                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                > Robert Johnston
                > Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 2:02 PM
                > To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: RE: [hreg] what's so great about hybrids?
                >
                > I agree that they are economically attractive. When the premium pricing
                > disappears, they may become significantly more so. But when my colleague
                > purchased her hybrid (early 2005), this wasn't true. If you compared a
                > hybrid with a similar car, for example, compared the Honda Civic Hybrid
                > vs.
                > the Honda Civic standard, allowing for the difference in price vs. the
                > difference in fuel consumption, the hybrid proved to be more expensive to
                > own and operate. Comparing a Prius vs. an SUV is not a fair pricing
                > comparison; you need to compare comparable vehicles. As for the
                > depreciation, that is a transient thing; I wouldn't count on it
                > persisting.
                > Prius isn't the first car model that was "hot" for a time. (I remember
                > when
                > the Chrysler PT Cruiser first came out and sold for well above MSRP, those
                > that got theirs early could flip them for a nice profit or at least not
                > lose
                > money to depreciation. But see what they go for now!).
                >
                > Just for grins, I redid the numbers as I did before I purchased my Honda
                > Civic a few months ago. From Carpoint.com, a base model Civic Hybrid goes
                > for $19,900 MSRP and $18,183 base invoice. Good luck getting one for less
                > than MSRP, of course! On the other hand, a regular Civic LX 5-spd with
                > front side airbags (the closest match I can find to the Hybrid) goes for
                > $15,860 MSRP and $14497 retail. Since I just bought a Civic for a couple
                > hundred over invoice, I know that is feasible. Just the same, let's be
                > real
                > conservative and assume a $4000 difference in cost. If we assume 50:50
                > city/hwy driving, then the Civic Hybrid averages 48.5 mpg and the standard
                > Civic averages 35 mpg. If we assume you own the car for 100,000 miles,
                > then
                > you will save 795 gal. Assume gas at $2.50/gal, and that is $1988 or
                > approximately half the difference in cost.
                >
                > Now, when I was contemplating purchasing a hybrid, and when my colleague
                > actually did purchase one, gas was cheaper. Also, the hybrid tax credit
                > was
                > small and disappearing. Today the situation is different. With the new
                > energy law and tax credit extension, the $2000 credit would more than
                > cover
                > the remaining cost difference, especially when you take into account that
                > it
                > is $2000 in post-tax savings whereas gas is purchased with pre-tax
                > dollars.
                > So, yes, the hybrid makes economic sense today, whereas it didn't in the
                > period I was referring to. (The "economic sense" is artificial, since it
                > is
                > just government stimulus, but to the consumer it is real money
                > nonetheless.
                > Please don't start an argument on the true cost of oil, etc., either. I'm
                > just addressing the consumer's viewpoint).
                >
                > It should be noted that unknowns include future resale value, and
                > reliability/future maintenance costs of hybrids.
                >
                > Maybe someone else will have a different perspective on this.
                >
                > Robert Johnston
                >
                > > -----Original Message-----
                > > From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of J.
                > > P. Malone
                > > Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 9:06 AM
                > > To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                > > Subject: RE: [hreg] what's so great about hybrids?
                > >
                > > No economic benefit to a car that gets over 50+ mpg??? Can you explain
                > > further this comment?
                > > Compared to what?
                > > The Prius is not very expensive to purchase by comparison to other
                > > vehicles,
                > > such as SUV, etc.
                > > Without being an Scientist/engineer type, I would think that the fuel
                > > dollar
                > > savings over a 5-6 year period, combined with less depreciation would be
                > > an
                > > economic benefit.
                > >
                > > Currently used Prius are selling for more that the new ones, because of
                > > the
                > > long wait to get a new one. So there is zero depreciation other than
                > > repairs over the longer term. I have a Toyota which has had minimal
                > > repairs
                > > over 10 years.
                > >
                > > Please explain, I must be missing a major point. Thanks.
                > >
                > > J. Patrick Malone
                > >
                > > -----Original Message-----
                > > From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                > > Robert
                > > Johnston
                > > Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 7:06 AM
                > > To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                > > Subject: RE: [hreg] what's so great about hybrids?
                > >
                > > I drove by my local Exxon yesterday and saw regular at $2.50/gal.
                > Granny
                > > will probably croak next time she tanks up.
                > >
                > > I don't know much about cars, but what was the performance like on your
                > > Civic VX? If I recall correctly, its technology gave it better
                > > performance
                > > than other small, efficient cars like the Geo Metro. But I think the
                > > hybrids today are offering even better performance, aren't they? I'm
                > > assuming that is the draw. By performance I'm referring to
                > acceleration,
                > > mostly. I have a colleague who drives a Prius and she said she bought
                > it
                > > because she liked the technology, bells and whistles. It was "cool".
                > She
                > > readily admitted there wasn't any economic benefit. She's also a
                > > scientist/engineer type.
                > >
                > > Robert Johnston
                > >
                > >
                > > > -----Original Message-----
                > > > From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                > > Paul
                > > > Archer
                > > > Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2005 10:06 PM
                > > > To: Houston RE Group
                > > > Subject: [hreg] what's so great about hybrids?
                > > >
                > > > (Forgive me if I've asked this question before. I think I brought it
                > up
                > > in
                > > > another forum, but it might have been here.)
                > > >
                > > > While reading an interesting article on someone modifying his Toyota
                > > > Prius,
                > > > I noticed that according to the article, typical mileage is 45mpg.
                > > > According
                > > > to Edmunds, it's 51mpg highway / 60mpg city.
                > > > While those are very good numbers, I had a '92 Civic VX that got 48mpg
                > > > city/57mpg highway. That's not quite as good as a hybrid, but it's
                > > pretty
                > > > damn good for a regular car.
                > > > So are people enamored of hybrids because it's new technology, or
                > > because
                > > > of
                > > > a promise of much great fuel efficiency, or what? And why isn't the
                > > > technology in the '92 Civic VX being used in practically every car out
                > > > there?
                > > > And while I'm ranting, why the hell was a little granny driving a
                > Nissan
                > > > 5.6L V8 SUV on the road next to me yesterday? What is up with this
                > > "bigger
                > > > is better, so blotting out the sun huge is best" mentality?
                > > >
                > > > Paul Archer
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > ----------------------------------------------
                > > > "We Americans, we're a simple people...
                > > > but piss us off, and we'll bomb your cities."
                > > > --------------Robin Williams------------------
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > --
                > > No virus found in this incoming message.
                > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
                > > Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.8/71 - Release Date: 8/12/2005
                > >
                > >
                > > --
                > > No virus found in this outgoing message.
                > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
                > > Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.8/71 - Release Date: 8/12/2005
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
              • John Miggins
                Go VW baby, they have several models with 40+ miles per gallon, the TDI (diesel) is over fifty, and stylish as well. Hard to find a good TDI used, they are
                Message 7 of 14 , Aug 14, 2005
                • 0 Attachment
                  Go VW baby,
                  they have several models with 40+ miles per gallon, the TDI (diesel) is over
                  fifty, and stylish as well.

                  Hard to find a good TDI used, they are bringing premiums.

                  I traded in my suburban for a Passat Wagon 1999 and although is is smaller
                  it is much more efficient and peppy, not to mention cooler.

                  I get about 28 mpg and drive hard most of the time. It is much closer to
                  the ground and sometimes I feel like I am lost amidst the titans but I just
                  whip around them and wave as they stop at the gas station. :)









                  John Miggins
                  Harvest Solar & Wind Power
                  "renewable solutions to everyday needs"
                  www.harvest-energy.com
                  Phone/Fax 918-743-2299
                  Cell: 918-521-6223

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "Robert Johnston" <junk1@...>
                  To: <hreg@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 2:07 PM
                  Subject: RE: [hreg] what's so great about hybrids?


                  Correction: I incorrectly said it was a $2000 tax credit. I just checked
                  the IRS website and it is a $2000 deduction. So the actual after-tax
                  savings for people in the 28% tax bracket is $560, not enough to make up the
                  difference in cost of the hybrid vs. conventional car. So, I think unless
                  gas prices go up considerably more, it still may not make economic sense to
                  the consumer (unless you want to gamble on hypothetical advantages in
                  depreciation, etc.).

                  Robert

                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                  > Robert Johnston
                  > Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 2:02 PM
                  > To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: RE: [hreg] what's so great about hybrids?
                  >
                  > I agree that they are economically attractive. When the premium pricing
                  > disappears, they may become significantly more so. But when my colleague
                  > purchased her hybrid (early 2005), this wasn't true. If you compared a
                  > hybrid with a similar car, for example, compared the Honda Civic Hybrid
                  > vs.
                  > the Honda Civic standard, allowing for the difference in price vs. the
                  > difference in fuel consumption, the hybrid proved to be more expensive to
                  > own and operate. Comparing a Prius vs. an SUV is not a fair pricing
                  > comparison; you need to compare comparable vehicles. As for the
                  > depreciation, that is a transient thing; I wouldn't count on it
                  > persisting.
                  > Prius isn't the first car model that was "hot" for a time. (I remember
                  > when
                  > the Chrysler PT Cruiser first came out and sold for well above MSRP, those
                  > that got theirs early could flip them for a nice profit or at least not
                  > lose
                  > money to depreciation. But see what they go for now!).
                  >
                  > Just for grins, I redid the numbers as I did before I purchased my Honda
                  > Civic a few months ago. From Carpoint.com, a base model Civic Hybrid goes
                  > for $19,900 MSRP and $18,183 base invoice. Good luck getting one for less
                  > than MSRP, of course! On the other hand, a regular Civic LX 5-spd with
                  > front side airbags (the closest match I can find to the Hybrid) goes for
                  > $15,860 MSRP and $14497 retail. Since I just bought a Civic for a couple
                  > hundred over invoice, I know that is feasible. Just the same, let's be
                  > real
                  > conservative and assume a $4000 difference in cost. If we assume 50:50
                  > city/hwy driving, then the Civic Hybrid averages 48.5 mpg and the standard
                  > Civic averages 35 mpg. If we assume you own the car for 100,000 miles,
                  > then
                  > you will save 795 gal. Assume gas at $2.50/gal, and that is $1988 or
                  > approximately half the difference in cost.
                  >
                  > Now, when I was contemplating purchasing a hybrid, and when my colleague
                  > actually did purchase one, gas was cheaper. Also, the hybrid tax credit
                  > was
                  > small and disappearing. Today the situation is different. With the new
                  > energy law and tax credit extension, the $2000 credit would more than
                  > cover
                  > the remaining cost difference, especially when you take into account that
                  > it
                  > is $2000 in post-tax savings whereas gas is purchased with pre-tax
                  > dollars.
                  > So, yes, the hybrid makes economic sense today, whereas it didn't in the
                  > period I was referring to. (The "economic sense" is artificial, since it
                  > is
                  > just government stimulus, but to the consumer it is real money
                  > nonetheless.
                  > Please don't start an argument on the true cost of oil, etc., either. I'm
                  > just addressing the consumer's viewpoint).
                  >
                  > It should be noted that unknowns include future resale value, and
                  > reliability/future maintenance costs of hybrids.
                  >
                  > Maybe someone else will have a different perspective on this.
                  >
                  > Robert Johnston
                  >
                  > > -----Original Message-----
                  > > From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of J.
                  > > P. Malone
                  > > Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 9:06 AM
                  > > To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                  > > Subject: RE: [hreg] what's so great about hybrids?
                  > >
                  > > No economic benefit to a car that gets over 50+ mpg??? Can you explain
                  > > further this comment?
                  > > Compared to what?
                  > > The Prius is not very expensive to purchase by comparison to other
                  > > vehicles,
                  > > such as SUV, etc.
                  > > Without being an Scientist/engineer type, I would think that the fuel
                  > > dollar
                  > > savings over a 5-6 year period, combined with less depreciation would be
                  > > an
                  > > economic benefit.
                  > >
                  > > Currently used Prius are selling for more that the new ones, because of
                  > > the
                  > > long wait to get a new one. So there is zero depreciation other than
                  > > repairs over the longer term. I have a Toyota which has had minimal
                  > > repairs
                  > > over 10 years.
                  > >
                  > > Please explain, I must be missing a major point. Thanks.
                  > >
                  > > J. Patrick Malone
                  > >
                  > > -----Original Message-----
                  > > From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                  > > Robert
                  > > Johnston
                  > > Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 7:06 AM
                  > > To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                  > > Subject: RE: [hreg] what's so great about hybrids?
                  > >
                  > > I drove by my local Exxon yesterday and saw regular at $2.50/gal.
                  > Granny
                  > > will probably croak next time she tanks up.
                  > >
                  > > I don't know much about cars, but what was the performance like on your
                  > > Civic VX? If I recall correctly, its technology gave it better
                  > > performance
                  > > than other small, efficient cars like the Geo Metro. But I think the
                  > > hybrids today are offering even better performance, aren't they? I'm
                  > > assuming that is the draw. By performance I'm referring to
                  > acceleration,
                  > > mostly. I have a colleague who drives a Prius and she said she bought
                  > it
                  > > because she liked the technology, bells and whistles. It was "cool".
                  > She
                  > > readily admitted there wasn't any economic benefit. She's also a
                  > > scientist/engineer type.
                  > >
                  > > Robert Johnston
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > > -----Original Message-----
                  > > > From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                  > > Paul
                  > > > Archer
                  > > > Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2005 10:06 PM
                  > > > To: Houston RE Group
                  > > > Subject: [hreg] what's so great about hybrids?
                  > > >
                  > > > (Forgive me if I've asked this question before. I think I brought it
                  > up
                  > > in
                  > > > another forum, but it might have been here.)
                  > > >
                  > > > While reading an interesting article on someone modifying his Toyota
                  > > > Prius,
                  > > > I noticed that according to the article, typical mileage is 45mpg.
                  > > > According
                  > > > to Edmunds, it's 51mpg highway / 60mpg city.
                  > > > While those are very good numbers, I had a '92 Civic VX that got 48mpg
                  > > > city/57mpg highway. That's not quite as good as a hybrid, but it's
                  > > pretty
                  > > > damn good for a regular car.
                  > > > So are people enamored of hybrids because it's new technology, or
                  > > because
                  > > > of
                  > > > a promise of much great fuel efficiency, or what? And why isn't the
                  > > > technology in the '92 Civic VX being used in practically every car out
                  > > > there?
                  > > > And while I'm ranting, why the hell was a little granny driving a
                  > Nissan
                  > > > 5.6L V8 SUV on the road next to me yesterday? What is up with this
                  > > "bigger
                  > > > is better, so blotting out the sun huge is best" mentality?
                  > > >
                  > > > Paul Archer
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > ----------------------------------------------
                  > > > "We Americans, we're a simple people...
                  > > > but piss us off, and we'll bomb your cities."
                  > > > --------------Robin Williams------------------
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > --
                  > > No virus found in this incoming message.
                  > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
                  > > Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.8/71 - Release Date: 8/12/2005
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > --
                  > > No virus found in this outgoing message.
                  > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
                  > > Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.8/71 - Release Date: 8/12/2005
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >






                  Yahoo! Groups Links
                • Israel Palacios
                  I just paid 2.53 a gallon in Montrose and gas is expected to rise within the week. I think that a Prius or Civic Hybrid would pay for itself over time if gas
                  Message 8 of 14 , Aug 14, 2005
                  • 0 Attachment
                    I just paid 2.53 a gallon in Montrose and gas is expected to rise within the
                    week. I think that a Prius or Civic Hybrid would pay for itself over time
                    if gas keeps going up. What should really take place is a premium price for
                    those to drive inefficient vehicles. The people that drive Hummers pay the
                    same price even though their vehicles use more. Why should those of us who
                    are concerned with Global Warming, Energy Security and its effects on
                    Geopolitical events pay the same price as those ignorant idiots who choose
                    to ignore those subjects? No one is forcing them to buy more efficient
                    vehicles but why should I have pay at the pump for their choices. Also,
                    isn't the recently passed energy bill full of giveaways to the oil
                    companies, why should they be profiting from both consumers and political
                    connections. We are paying them twice, once at the pump and second through
                    their subsidization with out tax dollars. If the American people want to
                    continue their empirical war in IraQ the children of those who voted for
                    Bush should be drafted first.

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of J. P.
                    Malone
                    Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 9:06 AM
                    To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: RE: [hreg] what's so great about hybrids?

                    No economic benefit to a car that gets over 50+ mpg??? Can you explain
                    further this comment?
                    Compared to what?
                    The Prius is not very expensive to purchase by comparison to other vehicles,
                    such as SUV, etc.
                    Without being an Scientist/engineer type, I would think that the fuel dollar
                    savings over a 5-6 year period, combined with less depreciation would be an
                    economic benefit.

                    Currently used Prius are selling for more that the new ones, because of the
                    long wait to get a new one. So there is zero depreciation other than
                    repairs over the longer term. I have a Toyota which has had minimal repairs
                    over 10 years.

                    Please explain, I must be missing a major point. Thanks.

                    J. Patrick Malone

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Robert
                    Johnston
                    Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 7:06 AM
                    To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: RE: [hreg] what's so great about hybrids?

                    I drove by my local Exxon yesterday and saw regular at $2.50/gal. Granny
                    will probably croak next time she tanks up.

                    I don't know much about cars, but what was the performance like on your
                    Civic VX? If I recall correctly, its technology gave it better performance
                    than other small, efficient cars like the Geo Metro. But I think the
                    hybrids today are offering even better performance, aren't they? I'm
                    assuming that is the draw. By performance I'm referring to acceleration,
                    mostly. I have a colleague who drives a Prius and she said she bought it
                    because she liked the technology, bells and whistles. It was "cool". She
                    readily admitted there wasn't any economic benefit. She's also a
                    scientist/engineer type.

                    Robert Johnston


                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paul
                    > Archer
                    > Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2005 10:06 PM
                    > To: Houston RE Group
                    > Subject: [hreg] what's so great about hybrids?
                    >
                    > (Forgive me if I've asked this question before. I think I brought it up in
                    > another forum, but it might have been here.)
                    >
                    > While reading an interesting article on someone modifying his Toyota
                    > Prius,
                    > I noticed that according to the article, typical mileage is 45mpg.
                    > According
                    > to Edmunds, it's 51mpg highway / 60mpg city.
                    > While those are very good numbers, I had a '92 Civic VX that got 48mpg
                    > city/57mpg highway. That's not quite as good as a hybrid, but it's pretty
                    > damn good for a regular car.
                    > So are people enamored of hybrids because it's new technology, or because
                    > of
                    > a promise of much great fuel efficiency, or what? And why isn't the
                    > technology in the '92 Civic VX being used in practically every car out
                    > there?
                    > And while I'm ranting, why the hell was a little granny driving a Nissan
                    > 5.6L V8 SUV on the road next to me yesterday? What is up with this "bigger
                    > is better, so blotting out the sun huge is best" mentality?
                    >
                    > Paul Archer
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ----------------------------------------------
                    > "We Americans, we're a simple people...
                    > but piss us off, and we'll bomb your cities."
                    > --------------Robin Williams------------------
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >






                    Yahoo! Groups Links







                    --
                    No virus found in this incoming message.
                    Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
                    Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.8/71 - Release Date: 8/12/2005


                    --
                    No virus found in this outgoing message.
                    Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
                    Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.8/71 - Release Date: 8/12/2005






                    Yahoo! Groups Links
                  • Israel Palacios
                    Oil is supposed to reach 80 or 100 dollars by the end of the year. People will be to busy listening to perfectly timed messages from Osama bin Laden to even
                    Message 9 of 14 , Aug 14, 2005
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Oil is supposed to reach 80 or 100 dollars by the end of the year. People
                      will be to busy listening to perfectly timed messages from Osama bin Laden
                      to even notice.

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of J. P.
                      Malone
                      Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 1:18 PM
                      To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: RE: [hreg] what's so great about hybrids?

                      CNN said it is $3 in parts of California. Boone Pickens who has been
                      correct in forecasting the moves through $40, $50 & $60 per barrel for oil,
                      predicted last week S75 within the next 12 months.

                      Wonder how that calcs to per gallon price of gasoline?

                      J. Patrick Malone


                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of SBT
                      Designs
                      Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 1:13 PM
                      To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [hreg] what's so great about hybrids?

                      I just got back from New Orleans. Regular gas there was $2.69 in many, many

                      locations. Brrrrrrrrrr. $3.00 is on the horizon

                      Steven Shepard
                      SBT Designs
                      25581 IH-10 West
                      San Antonio, Texas 78257
                      (210) 698-7109
                      www.sbtdesigns.com

                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "Robert Johnston" <junk1@...>
                      To: <hreg@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 7:06 AM
                      Subject: RE: [hreg] what's so great about hybrids?


                      I drove by my local Exxon yesterday and saw regular at $2.50/gal. Granny
                      will probably croak next time she tanks up.

                      I don't know much about cars, but what was the performance like on your
                      Civic VX? If I recall correctly, its technology gave it better performance
                      than other small, efficient cars like the Geo Metro. But I think the
                      hybrids today are offering even better performance, aren't they? I'm
                      assuming that is the draw. By performance I'm referring to acceleration,
                      mostly. I have a colleague who drives a Prius and she said she bought it
                      because she liked the technology, bells and whistles. It was "cool". She
                      readily admitted there wasn't any economic benefit. She's also a
                      scientist/engineer type.

                      Robert Johnston


                      > -----Original Message-----
                      > From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paul
                      > Archer
                      > Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2005 10:06 PM
                      > To: Houston RE Group
                      > Subject: [hreg] what's so great about hybrids?
                      >
                      > (Forgive me if I've asked this question before. I think I brought it up in
                      > another forum, but it might have been here.)
                      >
                      > While reading an interesting article on someone modifying his Toyota
                      > Prius,
                      > I noticed that according to the article, typical mileage is 45mpg.
                      > According
                      > to Edmunds, it's 51mpg highway / 60mpg city.
                      > While those are very good numbers, I had a '92 Civic VX that got 48mpg
                      > city/57mpg highway. That's not quite as good as a hybrid, but it's pretty
                      > damn good for a regular car.
                      > So are people enamored of hybrids because it's new technology, or because
                      > of
                      > a promise of much great fuel efficiency, or what? And why isn't the
                      > technology in the '92 Civic VX being used in practically every car out
                      > there?
                      > And while I'm ranting, why the hell was a little granny driving a Nissan
                      > 5.6L V8 SUV on the road next to me yesterday? What is up with this "bigger
                      > is better, so blotting out the sun huge is best" mentality?
                      >
                      > Paul Archer
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ----------------------------------------------
                      > "We Americans, we're a simple people...
                      > but piss us off, and we'll bomb your cities."
                      > --------------Robin Williams------------------
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >






                      Yahoo! Groups Links











                      Yahoo! Groups Links






                      --
                      No virus found in this incoming message.
                      Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
                      Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.8/71 - Release Date: 8/12/2005


                      --
                      No virus found in this outgoing message.
                      Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
                      Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.8/71 - Release Date: 8/12/2005






                      Yahoo! Groups Links
                    • Brian Harrison
                      With respect to the price of energy, hedge funds like the one T. Boone Pickens operates are part of the problem. Those funds have been buying futures contacts
                      Message 10 of 14 , Aug 15, 2005
                      • 0 Attachment
                        With respect to the price of energy, hedge funds like the one T. Boone Pickens operates are part of the problem. Those funds have been buying futures contacts on the NYMEX for the last year pushing up the price. When he's quoted as saying "Oil prices going higher", he's talking his position. The higher the price goes the more money he makes, several hundred million last year alone. Its not a secret, see the attached link. http://www.forbes.com/energy/2004/11/04/cx_tm_1104boonelander.html

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of J. P. Malone
                        Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 2:18 PM
                        To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: RE: [hreg] what's so great about hybrids?


                        CNN said it is $3 in parts of California. Boone Pickens who has been correct in forecasting the moves through $40, $50 & $60 per barrel for oil, predicted last week S75 within the next 12 months.

                        Wonder how that calcs to per gallon price of gasoline?

                        J. Patrick Malone


                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of SBT Designs
                        Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 1:13 PM
                        To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [hreg] what's so great about hybrids?

                        I just got back from New Orleans. Regular gas there was $2.69 in many, many

                        locations. Brrrrrrrrrr. $3.00 is on the horizon

                        Steven Shepard
                        SBT Designs
                        25581 IH-10 West
                        San Antonio, Texas 78257
                        (210) 698-7109
                        www.sbtdesigns.com

                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "Robert Johnston" <junk1@...>
                        To: <hreg@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 7:06 AM
                        Subject: RE: [hreg] what's so great about hybrids?


                        I drove by my local Exxon yesterday and saw regular at $2.50/gal. Granny will probably croak next time she tanks up.

                        I don't know much about cars, but what was the performance like on your Civic VX? If I recall correctly, its technology gave it better performance than other small, efficient cars like the Geo Metro. But I think the hybrids today are offering even better performance, aren't they? I'm assuming that is the draw. By performance I'm referring to acceleration, mostly. I have a colleague who drives a Prius and she said she bought it because she liked the technology, bells and whistles. It was "cool". She readily admitted there wasn't any economic benefit. She's also a scientist/engineer type.

                        Robert Johnston


                        > -----Original Message-----
                        > From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                        > Paul Archer
                        > Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2005 10:06 PM
                        > To: Houston RE Group
                        > Subject: [hreg] what's so great about hybrids?
                        >
                        > (Forgive me if I've asked this question before. I think I brought it
                        > up in another forum, but it might have been here.)
                        >
                        > While reading an interesting article on someone modifying his Toyota
                        > Prius, I noticed that according to the article, typical mileage is
                        > 45mpg. According
                        > to Edmunds, it's 51mpg highway / 60mpg city.
                        > While those are very good numbers, I had a '92 Civic VX that got 48mpg
                        > city/57mpg highway. That's not quite as good as a hybrid, but it's pretty
                        > damn good for a regular car.
                        > So are people enamored of hybrids because it's new technology, or because
                        > of
                        > a promise of much great fuel efficiency, or what? And why isn't the
                        > technology in the '92 Civic VX being used in practically every car out
                        > there?
                        > And while I'm ranting, why the hell was a little granny driving a Nissan
                        > 5.6L V8 SUV on the road next to me yesterday? What is up with this "bigger
                        > is better, so blotting out the sun huge is best" mentality?
                        >
                        > Paul Archer
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ----------------------------------------------
                        > "We Americans, we're a simple people...
                        > but piss us off, and we'll bomb your cities." --------------Robin
                        > Williams------------------
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >






                        Yahoo! Groups Links











                        Yahoo! Groups Links






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                        Yahoo! Groups Links
                      • J. P. Malone
                        Regardless of his profit motive, his predictions have been the most accurate. J. Patrick Malone ... From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On
                        Message 11 of 14 , Aug 15, 2005
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Regardless of his profit motive, his predictions have been the most
                          accurate.

                          J. Patrick Malone


                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Brian
                          Harrison
                          Sent: Monday, August 15, 2005 8:37 AM
                          To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: RE: [hreg] what's so great about hybrids?


                          With respect to the price of energy, hedge funds like the one T. Boone
                          Pickens operates are part of the problem. Those funds have been buying
                          futures contacts on the NYMEX for the last year pushing up the price. When
                          he's quoted as saying "Oil prices going higher", he's talking his position.
                          The higher the price goes the more money he makes, several hundred million
                          last year alone. Its not a secret, see the attached link.
                          http://www.forbes.com/energy/2004/11/04/cx_tm_1104boonelander.html

                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of J. P.
                          Malone
                          Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 2:18 PM
                          To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: RE: [hreg] what's so great about hybrids?


                          CNN said it is $3 in parts of California. Boone Pickens who has been
                          correct in forecasting the moves through $40, $50 & $60 per barrel for oil,
                          predicted last week S75 within the next 12 months.

                          Wonder how that calcs to per gallon price of gasoline?

                          J. Patrick Malone


                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of SBT
                          Designs
                          Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 1:13 PM
                          To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [hreg] what's so great about hybrids?

                          I just got back from New Orleans. Regular gas there was $2.69 in many, many

                          locations. Brrrrrrrrrr. $3.00 is on the horizon

                          Steven Shepard
                          SBT Designs
                          25581 IH-10 West
                          San Antonio, Texas 78257
                          (210) 698-7109
                          www.sbtdesigns.com

                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: "Robert Johnston" <junk1@...>
                          To: <hreg@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 7:06 AM
                          Subject: RE: [hreg] what's so great about hybrids?


                          I drove by my local Exxon yesterday and saw regular at $2.50/gal. Granny
                          will probably croak next time she tanks up.

                          I don't know much about cars, but what was the performance like on your
                          Civic VX? If I recall correctly, its technology gave it better performance
                          than other small, efficient cars like the Geo Metro. But I think the
                          hybrids today are offering even better performance, aren't they? I'm
                          assuming that is the draw. By performance I'm referring to acceleration,
                          mostly. I have a colleague who drives a Prius and she said she bought it
                          because she liked the technology, bells and whistles. It was "cool". She
                          readily admitted there wasn't any economic benefit. She's also a
                          scientist/engineer type.

                          Robert Johnston


                          > -----Original Message-----
                          > From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                          > Paul Archer
                          > Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2005 10:06 PM
                          > To: Houston RE Group
                          > Subject: [hreg] what's so great about hybrids?
                          >
                          > (Forgive me if I've asked this question before. I think I brought it
                          > up in another forum, but it might have been here.)
                          >
                          > While reading an interesting article on someone modifying his Toyota
                          > Prius, I noticed that according to the article, typical mileage is
                          > 45mpg. According
                          > to Edmunds, it's 51mpg highway / 60mpg city.
                          > While those are very good numbers, I had a '92 Civic VX that got 48mpg
                          > city/57mpg highway. That's not quite as good as a hybrid, but it's pretty
                          > damn good for a regular car.
                          > So are people enamored of hybrids because it's new technology, or because
                          > of
                          > a promise of much great fuel efficiency, or what? And why isn't the
                          > technology in the '92 Civic VX being used in practically every car out
                          > there?
                          > And while I'm ranting, why the hell was a little granny driving a Nissan
                          > 5.6L V8 SUV on the road next to me yesterday? What is up with this "bigger
                          > is better, so blotting out the sun huge is best" mentality?
                          >
                          > Paul Archer
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > ----------------------------------------------
                          > "We Americans, we're a simple people...
                          > but piss us off, and we'll bomb your cities." --------------Robin
                          > Williams------------------
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >






                          Yahoo! Groups Links











                          Yahoo! Groups Links






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                          Yahoo! Groups Links










                          Yahoo! Groups Links






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                          Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.9/72 - Release Date: 8/14/2005


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