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RE: [hreg] what's so great about hybrids?

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  • Robert Johnston
    I drove by my local Exxon yesterday and saw regular at $2.50/gal. Granny will probably croak next time she tanks up. I don t know much about cars, but what
    Message 1 of 14 , Aug 14, 2005
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      I drove by my local Exxon yesterday and saw regular at $2.50/gal. Granny
      will probably croak next time she tanks up.

      I don't know much about cars, but what was the performance like on your
      Civic VX? If I recall correctly, its technology gave it better performance
      than other small, efficient cars like the Geo Metro. But I think the
      hybrids today are offering even better performance, aren't they? I'm
      assuming that is the draw. By performance I'm referring to acceleration,
      mostly. I have a colleague who drives a Prius and she said she bought it
      because she liked the technology, bells and whistles. It was "cool". She
      readily admitted there wasn't any economic benefit. She's also a
      scientist/engineer type.

      Robert Johnston


      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paul
      > Archer
      > Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2005 10:06 PM
      > To: Houston RE Group
      > Subject: [hreg] what's so great about hybrids?
      >
      > (Forgive me if I've asked this question before. I think I brought it up in
      > another forum, but it might have been here.)
      >
      > While reading an interesting article on someone modifying his Toyota
      > Prius,
      > I noticed that according to the article, typical mileage is 45mpg.
      > According
      > to Edmunds, it's 51mpg highway / 60mpg city.
      > While those are very good numbers, I had a '92 Civic VX that got 48mpg
      > city/57mpg highway. That's not quite as good as a hybrid, but it's pretty
      > damn good for a regular car.
      > So are people enamored of hybrids because it's new technology, or because
      > of
      > a promise of much great fuel efficiency, or what? And why isn't the
      > technology in the '92 Civic VX being used in practically every car out
      > there?
      > And while I'm ranting, why the hell was a little granny driving a Nissan
      > 5.6L V8 SUV on the road next to me yesterday? What is up with this "bigger
      > is better, so blotting out the sun huge is best" mentality?
      >
      > Paul Archer
      >
      >
      >
      > ----------------------------------------------
      > "We Americans, we're a simple people...
      > but piss us off, and we'll bomb your cities."
      > --------------Robin Williams------------------
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
    • J. P. Malone
      No economic benefit to a car that gets over 50+ mpg??? Can you explain further this comment? Compared to what? The Prius is not very expensive to purchase by
      Message 2 of 14 , Aug 14, 2005
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        No economic benefit to a car that gets over 50+ mpg??? Can you explain
        further this comment?
        Compared to what?
        The Prius is not very expensive to purchase by comparison to other vehicles,
        such as SUV, etc.
        Without being an Scientist/engineer type, I would think that the fuel dollar
        savings over a 5-6 year period, combined with less depreciation would be an
        economic benefit.

        Currently used Prius are selling for more that the new ones, because of the
        long wait to get a new one. So there is zero depreciation other than
        repairs over the longer term. I have a Toyota which has had minimal repairs
        over 10 years.

        Please explain, I must be missing a major point. Thanks.

        J. Patrick Malone

        -----Original Message-----
        From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Robert
        Johnston
        Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 7:06 AM
        To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [hreg] what's so great about hybrids?

        I drove by my local Exxon yesterday and saw regular at $2.50/gal. Granny
        will probably croak next time she tanks up.

        I don't know much about cars, but what was the performance like on your
        Civic VX? If I recall correctly, its technology gave it better performance
        than other small, efficient cars like the Geo Metro. But I think the
        hybrids today are offering even better performance, aren't they? I'm
        assuming that is the draw. By performance I'm referring to acceleration,
        mostly. I have a colleague who drives a Prius and she said she bought it
        because she liked the technology, bells and whistles. It was "cool". She
        readily admitted there wasn't any economic benefit. She's also a
        scientist/engineer type.

        Robert Johnston


        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paul
        > Archer
        > Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2005 10:06 PM
        > To: Houston RE Group
        > Subject: [hreg] what's so great about hybrids?
        >
        > (Forgive me if I've asked this question before. I think I brought it up in
        > another forum, but it might have been here.)
        >
        > While reading an interesting article on someone modifying his Toyota
        > Prius,
        > I noticed that according to the article, typical mileage is 45mpg.
        > According
        > to Edmunds, it's 51mpg highway / 60mpg city.
        > While those are very good numbers, I had a '92 Civic VX that got 48mpg
        > city/57mpg highway. That's not quite as good as a hybrid, but it's pretty
        > damn good for a regular car.
        > So are people enamored of hybrids because it's new technology, or because
        > of
        > a promise of much great fuel efficiency, or what? And why isn't the
        > technology in the '92 Civic VX being used in practically every car out
        > there?
        > And while I'm ranting, why the hell was a little granny driving a Nissan
        > 5.6L V8 SUV on the road next to me yesterday? What is up with this "bigger
        > is better, so blotting out the sun huge is best" mentality?
        >
        > Paul Archer
        >
        >
        >
        > ----------------------------------------------
        > "We Americans, we're a simple people...
        > but piss us off, and we'll bomb your cities."
        > --------------Robin Williams------------------
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >






        Yahoo! Groups Links







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        Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
        Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.8/71 - Release Date: 8/12/2005


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      • Paul Archer
        ... Not the greatest, but not bad for an econo-box. It had a pretty peppy 1.6L engine. It s efficiency came from 1) low-friction tires, 2) a very-low-drag body
        Message 3 of 14 , Aug 14, 2005
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          7:06am, Robert Johnston wrote:

          > I drove by my local Exxon yesterday and saw regular at $2.50/gal. Granny
          > will probably croak next time she tanks up.
          >
          > I don't know much about cars, but what was the performance like on your
          > Civic VX?

          Not the greatest, but not bad for an econo-box. It had a pretty peppy 1.6L
          engine. It's efficiency came from 1) low-friction tires, 2) a very-low-drag
          body design, and 3) a 4 valve per cylinder engine that could cut off one
          exhaust valve during cruising.



          If I recall correctly, its technology gave it better performance
          > than other small, efficient cars like the Geo Metro. But I think the
          > hybrids today are offering even better performance, aren't they? I'm
          > assuming that is the draw. By performance I'm referring to acceleration,
          > mostly. I have a colleague who drives a Prius and she said she bought it
          > because she liked the technology, bells and whistles. It was "cool". She
          > readily admitted there wasn't any economic benefit. She's also a
          > scientist/engineer type.
          >
          > Robert Johnston
          >
          >
          >> -----Original Message-----
          >> From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paul
          >> Archer
          >> Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2005 10:06 PM
          >> To: Houston RE Group
          >> Subject: [hreg] what's so great about hybrids?
          >>
          >> (Forgive me if I've asked this question before. I think I brought it up in
          >> another forum, but it might have been here.)
          >>
          >> While reading an interesting article on someone modifying his Toyota
          >> Prius,
          >> I noticed that according to the article, typical mileage is 45mpg.
          >> According
          >> to Edmunds, it's 51mpg highway / 60mpg city.
          >> While those are very good numbers, I had a '92 Civic VX that got 48mpg
          >> city/57mpg highway. That's not quite as good as a hybrid, but it's pretty
          >> damn good for a regular car.
          >> So are people enamored of hybrids because it's new technology, or because
          >> of
          >> a promise of much great fuel efficiency, or what? And why isn't the
          >> technology in the '92 Civic VX being used in practically every car out
          >> there?
          >> And while I'm ranting, why the hell was a little granny driving a Nissan
          >> 5.6L V8 SUV on the road next to me yesterday? What is up with this "bigger
          >> is better, so blotting out the sun huge is best" mentality?
          >>
          >> Paul Archer
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >> ----------------------------------------------
          >> "We Americans, we're a simple people...
          >> but piss us off, and we'll bomb your cities."
          >> --------------Robin Williams------------------
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >> Yahoo! Groups Links
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >

          ---------------------------------------------------------------------
          On the side of the software box, in the "System Requirements" section,
          it said "Requires Windows 95 or better". So I installed Linux.
          ---------------------------------------------------------------------
        • SBT Designs
          I just got back from New Orleans. Regular gas there was $2.69 in many, many locations. Brrrrrrrrrr. $3.00 is on the horizon Steven Shepard SBT Designs 25581
          Message 4 of 14 , Aug 14, 2005
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            I just got back from New Orleans. Regular gas there was $2.69 in many, many
            locations. Brrrrrrrrrr. $3.00 is on the horizon

            Steven Shepard
            SBT Designs
            25581 IH-10 West
            San Antonio, Texas 78257
            (210) 698-7109
            www.sbtdesigns.com

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Robert Johnston" <junk1@...>
            To: <hreg@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 7:06 AM
            Subject: RE: [hreg] what's so great about hybrids?


            I drove by my local Exxon yesterday and saw regular at $2.50/gal. Granny
            will probably croak next time she tanks up.

            I don't know much about cars, but what was the performance like on your
            Civic VX? If I recall correctly, its technology gave it better performance
            than other small, efficient cars like the Geo Metro. But I think the
            hybrids today are offering even better performance, aren't they? I'm
            assuming that is the draw. By performance I'm referring to acceleration,
            mostly. I have a colleague who drives a Prius and she said she bought it
            because she liked the technology, bells and whistles. It was "cool". She
            readily admitted there wasn't any economic benefit. She's also a
            scientist/engineer type.

            Robert Johnston


            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paul
            > Archer
            > Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2005 10:06 PM
            > To: Houston RE Group
            > Subject: [hreg] what's so great about hybrids?
            >
            > (Forgive me if I've asked this question before. I think I brought it up in
            > another forum, but it might have been here.)
            >
            > While reading an interesting article on someone modifying his Toyota
            > Prius,
            > I noticed that according to the article, typical mileage is 45mpg.
            > According
            > to Edmunds, it's 51mpg highway / 60mpg city.
            > While those are very good numbers, I had a '92 Civic VX that got 48mpg
            > city/57mpg highway. That's not quite as good as a hybrid, but it's pretty
            > damn good for a regular car.
            > So are people enamored of hybrids because it's new technology, or because
            > of
            > a promise of much great fuel efficiency, or what? And why isn't the
            > technology in the '92 Civic VX being used in practically every car out
            > there?
            > And while I'm ranting, why the hell was a little granny driving a Nissan
            > 5.6L V8 SUV on the road next to me yesterday? What is up with this "bigger
            > is better, so blotting out the sun huge is best" mentality?
            >
            > Paul Archer
            >
            >
            >
            > ----------------------------------------------
            > "We Americans, we're a simple people...
            > but piss us off, and we'll bomb your cities."
            > --------------Robin Williams------------------
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >






            Yahoo! Groups Links
          • J. P. Malone
            CNN said it is $3 in parts of California. Boone Pickens who has been correct in forecasting the moves through $40, $50 & $60 per barrel for oil, predicted
            Message 5 of 14 , Aug 14, 2005
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              CNN said it is $3 in parts of California. Boone Pickens who has been
              correct in forecasting the moves through $40, $50 & $60 per barrel for oil,
              predicted last week S75 within the next 12 months.

              Wonder how that calcs to per gallon price of gasoline?

              J. Patrick Malone


              -----Original Message-----
              From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of SBT
              Designs
              Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 1:13 PM
              To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [hreg] what's so great about hybrids?

              I just got back from New Orleans. Regular gas there was $2.69 in many, many

              locations. Brrrrrrrrrr. $3.00 is on the horizon

              Steven Shepard
              SBT Designs
              25581 IH-10 West
              San Antonio, Texas 78257
              (210) 698-7109
              www.sbtdesigns.com

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Robert Johnston" <junk1@...>
              To: <hreg@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 7:06 AM
              Subject: RE: [hreg] what's so great about hybrids?


              I drove by my local Exxon yesterday and saw regular at $2.50/gal. Granny
              will probably croak next time she tanks up.

              I don't know much about cars, but what was the performance like on your
              Civic VX? If I recall correctly, its technology gave it better performance
              than other small, efficient cars like the Geo Metro. But I think the
              hybrids today are offering even better performance, aren't they? I'm
              assuming that is the draw. By performance I'm referring to acceleration,
              mostly. I have a colleague who drives a Prius and she said she bought it
              because she liked the technology, bells and whistles. It was "cool". She
              readily admitted there wasn't any economic benefit. She's also a
              scientist/engineer type.

              Robert Johnston


              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paul
              > Archer
              > Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2005 10:06 PM
              > To: Houston RE Group
              > Subject: [hreg] what's so great about hybrids?
              >
              > (Forgive me if I've asked this question before. I think I brought it up in
              > another forum, but it might have been here.)
              >
              > While reading an interesting article on someone modifying his Toyota
              > Prius,
              > I noticed that according to the article, typical mileage is 45mpg.
              > According
              > to Edmunds, it's 51mpg highway / 60mpg city.
              > While those are very good numbers, I had a '92 Civic VX that got 48mpg
              > city/57mpg highway. That's not quite as good as a hybrid, but it's pretty
              > damn good for a regular car.
              > So are people enamored of hybrids because it's new technology, or because
              > of
              > a promise of much great fuel efficiency, or what? And why isn't the
              > technology in the '92 Civic VX being used in practically every car out
              > there?
              > And while I'm ranting, why the hell was a little granny driving a Nissan
              > 5.6L V8 SUV on the road next to me yesterday? What is up with this "bigger
              > is better, so blotting out the sun huge is best" mentality?
              >
              > Paul Archer
              >
              >
              >
              > ----------------------------------------------
              > "We Americans, we're a simple people...
              > but piss us off, and we'll bomb your cities."
              > --------------Robin Williams------------------
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >






              Yahoo! Groups Links











              Yahoo! Groups Links






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              Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
              Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.8/71 - Release Date: 8/12/2005


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            • Robert Johnston
              I agree that they are economically attractive. When the premium pricing disappears, they may become significantly more so. But when my colleague purchased
              Message 6 of 14 , Aug 14, 2005
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                I agree that they are economically attractive. When the premium pricing
                disappears, they may become significantly more so. But when my colleague
                purchased her hybrid (early 2005), this wasn't true. If you compared a
                hybrid with a similar car, for example, compared the Honda Civic Hybrid vs.
                the Honda Civic standard, allowing for the difference in price vs. the
                difference in fuel consumption, the hybrid proved to be more expensive to
                own and operate. Comparing a Prius vs. an SUV is not a fair pricing
                comparison; you need to compare comparable vehicles. As for the
                depreciation, that is a transient thing; I wouldn't count on it persisting.
                Prius isn't the first car model that was "hot" for a time. (I remember when
                the Chrysler PT Cruiser first came out and sold for well above MSRP, those
                that got theirs early could flip them for a nice profit or at least not lose
                money to depreciation. But see what they go for now!).

                Just for grins, I redid the numbers as I did before I purchased my Honda
                Civic a few months ago. From Carpoint.com, a base model Civic Hybrid goes
                for $19,900 MSRP and $18,183 base invoice. Good luck getting one for less
                than MSRP, of course! On the other hand, a regular Civic LX 5-spd with
                front side airbags (the closest match I can find to the Hybrid) goes for
                $15,860 MSRP and $14497 retail. Since I just bought a Civic for a couple
                hundred over invoice, I know that is feasible. Just the same, let's be real
                conservative and assume a $4000 difference in cost. If we assume 50:50
                city/hwy driving, then the Civic Hybrid averages 48.5 mpg and the standard
                Civic averages 35 mpg. If we assume you own the car for 100,000 miles, then
                you will save 795 gal. Assume gas at $2.50/gal, and that is $1988 or
                approximately half the difference in cost.

                Now, when I was contemplating purchasing a hybrid, and when my colleague
                actually did purchase one, gas was cheaper. Also, the hybrid tax credit was
                small and disappearing. Today the situation is different. With the new
                energy law and tax credit extension, the $2000 credit would more than cover
                the remaining cost difference, especially when you take into account that it
                is $2000 in post-tax savings whereas gas is purchased with pre-tax dollars.
                So, yes, the hybrid makes economic sense today, whereas it didn't in the
                period I was referring to. (The "economic sense" is artificial, since it is
                just government stimulus, but to the consumer it is real money nonetheless.
                Please don't start an argument on the true cost of oil, etc., either. I'm
                just addressing the consumer's viewpoint).

                It should be noted that unknowns include future resale value, and
                reliability/future maintenance costs of hybrids.

                Maybe someone else will have a different perspective on this.

                Robert Johnston

                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of J.
                > P. Malone
                > Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 9:06 AM
                > To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: RE: [hreg] what's so great about hybrids?
                >
                > No economic benefit to a car that gets over 50+ mpg??? Can you explain
                > further this comment?
                > Compared to what?
                > The Prius is not very expensive to purchase by comparison to other
                > vehicles,
                > such as SUV, etc.
                > Without being an Scientist/engineer type, I would think that the fuel
                > dollar
                > savings over a 5-6 year period, combined with less depreciation would be
                > an
                > economic benefit.
                >
                > Currently used Prius are selling for more that the new ones, because of
                > the
                > long wait to get a new one. So there is zero depreciation other than
                > repairs over the longer term. I have a Toyota which has had minimal
                > repairs
                > over 10 years.
                >
                > Please explain, I must be missing a major point. Thanks.
                >
                > J. Patrick Malone
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                > Robert
                > Johnston
                > Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 7:06 AM
                > To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: RE: [hreg] what's so great about hybrids?
                >
                > I drove by my local Exxon yesterday and saw regular at $2.50/gal. Granny
                > will probably croak next time she tanks up.
                >
                > I don't know much about cars, but what was the performance like on your
                > Civic VX? If I recall correctly, its technology gave it better
                > performance
                > than other small, efficient cars like the Geo Metro. But I think the
                > hybrids today are offering even better performance, aren't they? I'm
                > assuming that is the draw. By performance I'm referring to acceleration,
                > mostly. I have a colleague who drives a Prius and she said she bought it
                > because she liked the technology, bells and whistles. It was "cool". She
                > readily admitted there wasn't any economic benefit. She's also a
                > scientist/engineer type.
                >
                > Robert Johnston
                >
                >
                > > -----Original Message-----
                > > From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                > Paul
                > > Archer
                > > Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2005 10:06 PM
                > > To: Houston RE Group
                > > Subject: [hreg] what's so great about hybrids?
                > >
                > > (Forgive me if I've asked this question before. I think I brought it up
                > in
                > > another forum, but it might have been here.)
                > >
                > > While reading an interesting article on someone modifying his Toyota
                > > Prius,
                > > I noticed that according to the article, typical mileage is 45mpg.
                > > According
                > > to Edmunds, it's 51mpg highway / 60mpg city.
                > > While those are very good numbers, I had a '92 Civic VX that got 48mpg
                > > city/57mpg highway. That's not quite as good as a hybrid, but it's
                > pretty
                > > damn good for a regular car.
                > > So are people enamored of hybrids because it's new technology, or
                > because
                > > of
                > > a promise of much great fuel efficiency, or what? And why isn't the
                > > technology in the '92 Civic VX being used in practically every car out
                > > there?
                > > And while I'm ranting, why the hell was a little granny driving a Nissan
                > > 5.6L V8 SUV on the road next to me yesterday? What is up with this
                > "bigger
                > > is better, so blotting out the sun huge is best" mentality?
                > >
                > > Paul Archer
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > ----------------------------------------------
                > > "We Americans, we're a simple people...
                > > but piss us off, and we'll bomb your cities."
                > > --------------Robin Williams------------------
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > --
                > No virus found in this incoming message.
                > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
                > Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.8/71 - Release Date: 8/12/2005
                >
                >
                > --
                > No virus found in this outgoing message.
                > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
                > Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.8/71 - Release Date: 8/12/2005
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
              • Robert Johnston
                Correction: I incorrectly said it was a $2000 tax credit. I just checked the IRS website and it is a $2000 deduction. So the actual after-tax savings for
                Message 7 of 14 , Aug 14, 2005
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                  Correction: I incorrectly said it was a $2000 tax credit. I just checked
                  the IRS website and it is a $2000 deduction. So the actual after-tax
                  savings for people in the 28% tax bracket is $560, not enough to make up the
                  difference in cost of the hybrid vs. conventional car. So, I think unless
                  gas prices go up considerably more, it still may not make economic sense to
                  the consumer (unless you want to gamble on hypothetical advantages in
                  depreciation, etc.).

                  Robert

                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                  > Robert Johnston
                  > Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 2:02 PM
                  > To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: RE: [hreg] what's so great about hybrids?
                  >
                  > I agree that they are economically attractive. When the premium pricing
                  > disappears, they may become significantly more so. But when my colleague
                  > purchased her hybrid (early 2005), this wasn't true. If you compared a
                  > hybrid with a similar car, for example, compared the Honda Civic Hybrid
                  > vs.
                  > the Honda Civic standard, allowing for the difference in price vs. the
                  > difference in fuel consumption, the hybrid proved to be more expensive to
                  > own and operate. Comparing a Prius vs. an SUV is not a fair pricing
                  > comparison; you need to compare comparable vehicles. As for the
                  > depreciation, that is a transient thing; I wouldn't count on it
                  > persisting.
                  > Prius isn't the first car model that was "hot" for a time. (I remember
                  > when
                  > the Chrysler PT Cruiser first came out and sold for well above MSRP, those
                  > that got theirs early could flip them for a nice profit or at least not
                  > lose
                  > money to depreciation. But see what they go for now!).
                  >
                  > Just for grins, I redid the numbers as I did before I purchased my Honda
                  > Civic a few months ago. From Carpoint.com, a base model Civic Hybrid goes
                  > for $19,900 MSRP and $18,183 base invoice. Good luck getting one for less
                  > than MSRP, of course! On the other hand, a regular Civic LX 5-spd with
                  > front side airbags (the closest match I can find to the Hybrid) goes for
                  > $15,860 MSRP and $14497 retail. Since I just bought a Civic for a couple
                  > hundred over invoice, I know that is feasible. Just the same, let's be
                  > real
                  > conservative and assume a $4000 difference in cost. If we assume 50:50
                  > city/hwy driving, then the Civic Hybrid averages 48.5 mpg and the standard
                  > Civic averages 35 mpg. If we assume you own the car for 100,000 miles,
                  > then
                  > you will save 795 gal. Assume gas at $2.50/gal, and that is $1988 or
                  > approximately half the difference in cost.
                  >
                  > Now, when I was contemplating purchasing a hybrid, and when my colleague
                  > actually did purchase one, gas was cheaper. Also, the hybrid tax credit
                  > was
                  > small and disappearing. Today the situation is different. With the new
                  > energy law and tax credit extension, the $2000 credit would more than
                  > cover
                  > the remaining cost difference, especially when you take into account that
                  > it
                  > is $2000 in post-tax savings whereas gas is purchased with pre-tax
                  > dollars.
                  > So, yes, the hybrid makes economic sense today, whereas it didn't in the
                  > period I was referring to. (The "economic sense" is artificial, since it
                  > is
                  > just government stimulus, but to the consumer it is real money
                  > nonetheless.
                  > Please don't start an argument on the true cost of oil, etc., either. I'm
                  > just addressing the consumer's viewpoint).
                  >
                  > It should be noted that unknowns include future resale value, and
                  > reliability/future maintenance costs of hybrids.
                  >
                  > Maybe someone else will have a different perspective on this.
                  >
                  > Robert Johnston
                  >
                  > > -----Original Message-----
                  > > From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of J.
                  > > P. Malone
                  > > Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 9:06 AM
                  > > To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                  > > Subject: RE: [hreg] what's so great about hybrids?
                  > >
                  > > No economic benefit to a car that gets over 50+ mpg??? Can you explain
                  > > further this comment?
                  > > Compared to what?
                  > > The Prius is not very expensive to purchase by comparison to other
                  > > vehicles,
                  > > such as SUV, etc.
                  > > Without being an Scientist/engineer type, I would think that the fuel
                  > > dollar
                  > > savings over a 5-6 year period, combined with less depreciation would be
                  > > an
                  > > economic benefit.
                  > >
                  > > Currently used Prius are selling for more that the new ones, because of
                  > > the
                  > > long wait to get a new one. So there is zero depreciation other than
                  > > repairs over the longer term. I have a Toyota which has had minimal
                  > > repairs
                  > > over 10 years.
                  > >
                  > > Please explain, I must be missing a major point. Thanks.
                  > >
                  > > J. Patrick Malone
                  > >
                  > > -----Original Message-----
                  > > From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                  > > Robert
                  > > Johnston
                  > > Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 7:06 AM
                  > > To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                  > > Subject: RE: [hreg] what's so great about hybrids?
                  > >
                  > > I drove by my local Exxon yesterday and saw regular at $2.50/gal.
                  > Granny
                  > > will probably croak next time she tanks up.
                  > >
                  > > I don't know much about cars, but what was the performance like on your
                  > > Civic VX? If I recall correctly, its technology gave it better
                  > > performance
                  > > than other small, efficient cars like the Geo Metro. But I think the
                  > > hybrids today are offering even better performance, aren't they? I'm
                  > > assuming that is the draw. By performance I'm referring to
                  > acceleration,
                  > > mostly. I have a colleague who drives a Prius and she said she bought
                  > it
                  > > because she liked the technology, bells and whistles. It was "cool".
                  > She
                  > > readily admitted there wasn't any economic benefit. She's also a
                  > > scientist/engineer type.
                  > >
                  > > Robert Johnston
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > > -----Original Message-----
                  > > > From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                  > > Paul
                  > > > Archer
                  > > > Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2005 10:06 PM
                  > > > To: Houston RE Group
                  > > > Subject: [hreg] what's so great about hybrids?
                  > > >
                  > > > (Forgive me if I've asked this question before. I think I brought it
                  > up
                  > > in
                  > > > another forum, but it might have been here.)
                  > > >
                  > > > While reading an interesting article on someone modifying his Toyota
                  > > > Prius,
                  > > > I noticed that according to the article, typical mileage is 45mpg.
                  > > > According
                  > > > to Edmunds, it's 51mpg highway / 60mpg city.
                  > > > While those are very good numbers, I had a '92 Civic VX that got 48mpg
                  > > > city/57mpg highway. That's not quite as good as a hybrid, but it's
                  > > pretty
                  > > > damn good for a regular car.
                  > > > So are people enamored of hybrids because it's new technology, or
                  > > because
                  > > > of
                  > > > a promise of much great fuel efficiency, or what? And why isn't the
                  > > > technology in the '92 Civic VX being used in practically every car out
                  > > > there?
                  > > > And while I'm ranting, why the hell was a little granny driving a
                  > Nissan
                  > > > 5.6L V8 SUV on the road next to me yesterday? What is up with this
                  > > "bigger
                  > > > is better, so blotting out the sun huge is best" mentality?
                  > > >
                  > > > Paul Archer
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > ----------------------------------------------
                  > > > "We Americans, we're a simple people...
                  > > > but piss us off, and we'll bomb your cities."
                  > > > --------------Robin Williams------------------
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > --
                  > > No virus found in this incoming message.
                  > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
                  > > Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.8/71 - Release Date: 8/12/2005
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > --
                  > > No virus found in this outgoing message.
                  > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
                  > > Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.8/71 - Release Date: 8/12/2005
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • John Miggins
                  Go VW baby, they have several models with 40+ miles per gallon, the TDI (diesel) is over fifty, and stylish as well. Hard to find a good TDI used, they are
                  Message 8 of 14 , Aug 14, 2005
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Go VW baby,
                    they have several models with 40+ miles per gallon, the TDI (diesel) is over
                    fifty, and stylish as well.

                    Hard to find a good TDI used, they are bringing premiums.

                    I traded in my suburban for a Passat Wagon 1999 and although is is smaller
                    it is much more efficient and peppy, not to mention cooler.

                    I get about 28 mpg and drive hard most of the time. It is much closer to
                    the ground and sometimes I feel like I am lost amidst the titans but I just
                    whip around them and wave as they stop at the gas station. :)









                    John Miggins
                    Harvest Solar & Wind Power
                    "renewable solutions to everyday needs"
                    www.harvest-energy.com
                    Phone/Fax 918-743-2299
                    Cell: 918-521-6223

                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "Robert Johnston" <junk1@...>
                    To: <hreg@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 2:07 PM
                    Subject: RE: [hreg] what's so great about hybrids?


                    Correction: I incorrectly said it was a $2000 tax credit. I just checked
                    the IRS website and it is a $2000 deduction. So the actual after-tax
                    savings for people in the 28% tax bracket is $560, not enough to make up the
                    difference in cost of the hybrid vs. conventional car. So, I think unless
                    gas prices go up considerably more, it still may not make economic sense to
                    the consumer (unless you want to gamble on hypothetical advantages in
                    depreciation, etc.).

                    Robert

                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                    > Robert Johnston
                    > Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 2:02 PM
                    > To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: RE: [hreg] what's so great about hybrids?
                    >
                    > I agree that they are economically attractive. When the premium pricing
                    > disappears, they may become significantly more so. But when my colleague
                    > purchased her hybrid (early 2005), this wasn't true. If you compared a
                    > hybrid with a similar car, for example, compared the Honda Civic Hybrid
                    > vs.
                    > the Honda Civic standard, allowing for the difference in price vs. the
                    > difference in fuel consumption, the hybrid proved to be more expensive to
                    > own and operate. Comparing a Prius vs. an SUV is not a fair pricing
                    > comparison; you need to compare comparable vehicles. As for the
                    > depreciation, that is a transient thing; I wouldn't count on it
                    > persisting.
                    > Prius isn't the first car model that was "hot" for a time. (I remember
                    > when
                    > the Chrysler PT Cruiser first came out and sold for well above MSRP, those
                    > that got theirs early could flip them for a nice profit or at least not
                    > lose
                    > money to depreciation. But see what they go for now!).
                    >
                    > Just for grins, I redid the numbers as I did before I purchased my Honda
                    > Civic a few months ago. From Carpoint.com, a base model Civic Hybrid goes
                    > for $19,900 MSRP and $18,183 base invoice. Good luck getting one for less
                    > than MSRP, of course! On the other hand, a regular Civic LX 5-spd with
                    > front side airbags (the closest match I can find to the Hybrid) goes for
                    > $15,860 MSRP and $14497 retail. Since I just bought a Civic for a couple
                    > hundred over invoice, I know that is feasible. Just the same, let's be
                    > real
                    > conservative and assume a $4000 difference in cost. If we assume 50:50
                    > city/hwy driving, then the Civic Hybrid averages 48.5 mpg and the standard
                    > Civic averages 35 mpg. If we assume you own the car for 100,000 miles,
                    > then
                    > you will save 795 gal. Assume gas at $2.50/gal, and that is $1988 or
                    > approximately half the difference in cost.
                    >
                    > Now, when I was contemplating purchasing a hybrid, and when my colleague
                    > actually did purchase one, gas was cheaper. Also, the hybrid tax credit
                    > was
                    > small and disappearing. Today the situation is different. With the new
                    > energy law and tax credit extension, the $2000 credit would more than
                    > cover
                    > the remaining cost difference, especially when you take into account that
                    > it
                    > is $2000 in post-tax savings whereas gas is purchased with pre-tax
                    > dollars.
                    > So, yes, the hybrid makes economic sense today, whereas it didn't in the
                    > period I was referring to. (The "economic sense" is artificial, since it
                    > is
                    > just government stimulus, but to the consumer it is real money
                    > nonetheless.
                    > Please don't start an argument on the true cost of oil, etc., either. I'm
                    > just addressing the consumer's viewpoint).
                    >
                    > It should be noted that unknowns include future resale value, and
                    > reliability/future maintenance costs of hybrids.
                    >
                    > Maybe someone else will have a different perspective on this.
                    >
                    > Robert Johnston
                    >
                    > > -----Original Message-----
                    > > From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of J.
                    > > P. Malone
                    > > Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 9:06 AM
                    > > To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                    > > Subject: RE: [hreg] what's so great about hybrids?
                    > >
                    > > No economic benefit to a car that gets over 50+ mpg??? Can you explain
                    > > further this comment?
                    > > Compared to what?
                    > > The Prius is not very expensive to purchase by comparison to other
                    > > vehicles,
                    > > such as SUV, etc.
                    > > Without being an Scientist/engineer type, I would think that the fuel
                    > > dollar
                    > > savings over a 5-6 year period, combined with less depreciation would be
                    > > an
                    > > economic benefit.
                    > >
                    > > Currently used Prius are selling for more that the new ones, because of
                    > > the
                    > > long wait to get a new one. So there is zero depreciation other than
                    > > repairs over the longer term. I have a Toyota which has had minimal
                    > > repairs
                    > > over 10 years.
                    > >
                    > > Please explain, I must be missing a major point. Thanks.
                    > >
                    > > J. Patrick Malone
                    > >
                    > > -----Original Message-----
                    > > From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                    > > Robert
                    > > Johnston
                    > > Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 7:06 AM
                    > > To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                    > > Subject: RE: [hreg] what's so great about hybrids?
                    > >
                    > > I drove by my local Exxon yesterday and saw regular at $2.50/gal.
                    > Granny
                    > > will probably croak next time she tanks up.
                    > >
                    > > I don't know much about cars, but what was the performance like on your
                    > > Civic VX? If I recall correctly, its technology gave it better
                    > > performance
                    > > than other small, efficient cars like the Geo Metro. But I think the
                    > > hybrids today are offering even better performance, aren't they? I'm
                    > > assuming that is the draw. By performance I'm referring to
                    > acceleration,
                    > > mostly. I have a colleague who drives a Prius and she said she bought
                    > it
                    > > because she liked the technology, bells and whistles. It was "cool".
                    > She
                    > > readily admitted there wasn't any economic benefit. She's also a
                    > > scientist/engineer type.
                    > >
                    > > Robert Johnston
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > > -----Original Message-----
                    > > > From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                    > > Paul
                    > > > Archer
                    > > > Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2005 10:06 PM
                    > > > To: Houston RE Group
                    > > > Subject: [hreg] what's so great about hybrids?
                    > > >
                    > > > (Forgive me if I've asked this question before. I think I brought it
                    > up
                    > > in
                    > > > another forum, but it might have been here.)
                    > > >
                    > > > While reading an interesting article on someone modifying his Toyota
                    > > > Prius,
                    > > > I noticed that according to the article, typical mileage is 45mpg.
                    > > > According
                    > > > to Edmunds, it's 51mpg highway / 60mpg city.
                    > > > While those are very good numbers, I had a '92 Civic VX that got 48mpg
                    > > > city/57mpg highway. That's not quite as good as a hybrid, but it's
                    > > pretty
                    > > > damn good for a regular car.
                    > > > So are people enamored of hybrids because it's new technology, or
                    > > because
                    > > > of
                    > > > a promise of much great fuel efficiency, or what? And why isn't the
                    > > > technology in the '92 Civic VX being used in practically every car out
                    > > > there?
                    > > > And while I'm ranting, why the hell was a little granny driving a
                    > Nissan
                    > > > 5.6L V8 SUV on the road next to me yesterday? What is up with this
                    > > "bigger
                    > > > is better, so blotting out the sun huge is best" mentality?
                    > > >
                    > > > Paul Archer
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > ----------------------------------------------
                    > > > "We Americans, we're a simple people...
                    > > > but piss us off, and we'll bomb your cities."
                    > > > --------------Robin Williams------------------
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > --
                    > > No virus found in this incoming message.
                    > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
                    > > Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.8/71 - Release Date: 8/12/2005
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > --
                    > > No virus found in this outgoing message.
                    > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
                    > > Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.8/71 - Release Date: 8/12/2005
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >






                    Yahoo! Groups Links
                  • Israel Palacios
                    I just paid 2.53 a gallon in Montrose and gas is expected to rise within the week. I think that a Prius or Civic Hybrid would pay for itself over time if gas
                    Message 9 of 14 , Aug 14, 2005
                    • 0 Attachment
                      I just paid 2.53 a gallon in Montrose and gas is expected to rise within the
                      week. I think that a Prius or Civic Hybrid would pay for itself over time
                      if gas keeps going up. What should really take place is a premium price for
                      those to drive inefficient vehicles. The people that drive Hummers pay the
                      same price even though their vehicles use more. Why should those of us who
                      are concerned with Global Warming, Energy Security and its effects on
                      Geopolitical events pay the same price as those ignorant idiots who choose
                      to ignore those subjects? No one is forcing them to buy more efficient
                      vehicles but why should I have pay at the pump for their choices. Also,
                      isn't the recently passed energy bill full of giveaways to the oil
                      companies, why should they be profiting from both consumers and political
                      connections. We are paying them twice, once at the pump and second through
                      their subsidization with out tax dollars. If the American people want to
                      continue their empirical war in IraQ the children of those who voted for
                      Bush should be drafted first.

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of J. P.
                      Malone
                      Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 9:06 AM
                      To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: RE: [hreg] what's so great about hybrids?

                      No economic benefit to a car that gets over 50+ mpg??? Can you explain
                      further this comment?
                      Compared to what?
                      The Prius is not very expensive to purchase by comparison to other vehicles,
                      such as SUV, etc.
                      Without being an Scientist/engineer type, I would think that the fuel dollar
                      savings over a 5-6 year period, combined with less depreciation would be an
                      economic benefit.

                      Currently used Prius are selling for more that the new ones, because of the
                      long wait to get a new one. So there is zero depreciation other than
                      repairs over the longer term. I have a Toyota which has had minimal repairs
                      over 10 years.

                      Please explain, I must be missing a major point. Thanks.

                      J. Patrick Malone

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Robert
                      Johnston
                      Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 7:06 AM
                      To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: RE: [hreg] what's so great about hybrids?

                      I drove by my local Exxon yesterday and saw regular at $2.50/gal. Granny
                      will probably croak next time she tanks up.

                      I don't know much about cars, but what was the performance like on your
                      Civic VX? If I recall correctly, its technology gave it better performance
                      than other small, efficient cars like the Geo Metro. But I think the
                      hybrids today are offering even better performance, aren't they? I'm
                      assuming that is the draw. By performance I'm referring to acceleration,
                      mostly. I have a colleague who drives a Prius and she said she bought it
                      because she liked the technology, bells and whistles. It was "cool". She
                      readily admitted there wasn't any economic benefit. She's also a
                      scientist/engineer type.

                      Robert Johnston


                      > -----Original Message-----
                      > From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paul
                      > Archer
                      > Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2005 10:06 PM
                      > To: Houston RE Group
                      > Subject: [hreg] what's so great about hybrids?
                      >
                      > (Forgive me if I've asked this question before. I think I brought it up in
                      > another forum, but it might have been here.)
                      >
                      > While reading an interesting article on someone modifying his Toyota
                      > Prius,
                      > I noticed that according to the article, typical mileage is 45mpg.
                      > According
                      > to Edmunds, it's 51mpg highway / 60mpg city.
                      > While those are very good numbers, I had a '92 Civic VX that got 48mpg
                      > city/57mpg highway. That's not quite as good as a hybrid, but it's pretty
                      > damn good for a regular car.
                      > So are people enamored of hybrids because it's new technology, or because
                      > of
                      > a promise of much great fuel efficiency, or what? And why isn't the
                      > technology in the '92 Civic VX being used in practically every car out
                      > there?
                      > And while I'm ranting, why the hell was a little granny driving a Nissan
                      > 5.6L V8 SUV on the road next to me yesterday? What is up with this "bigger
                      > is better, so blotting out the sun huge is best" mentality?
                      >
                      > Paul Archer
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ----------------------------------------------
                      > "We Americans, we're a simple people...
                      > but piss us off, and we'll bomb your cities."
                      > --------------Robin Williams------------------
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >






                      Yahoo! Groups Links







                      --
                      No virus found in this incoming message.
                      Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
                      Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.8/71 - Release Date: 8/12/2005


                      --
                      No virus found in this outgoing message.
                      Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
                      Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.8/71 - Release Date: 8/12/2005






                      Yahoo! Groups Links
                    • Israel Palacios
                      Oil is supposed to reach 80 or 100 dollars by the end of the year. People will be to busy listening to perfectly timed messages from Osama bin Laden to even
                      Message 10 of 14 , Aug 14, 2005
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Oil is supposed to reach 80 or 100 dollars by the end of the year. People
                        will be to busy listening to perfectly timed messages from Osama bin Laden
                        to even notice.

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of J. P.
                        Malone
                        Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 1:18 PM
                        To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: RE: [hreg] what's so great about hybrids?

                        CNN said it is $3 in parts of California. Boone Pickens who has been
                        correct in forecasting the moves through $40, $50 & $60 per barrel for oil,
                        predicted last week S75 within the next 12 months.

                        Wonder how that calcs to per gallon price of gasoline?

                        J. Patrick Malone


                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of SBT
                        Designs
                        Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 1:13 PM
                        To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [hreg] what's so great about hybrids?

                        I just got back from New Orleans. Regular gas there was $2.69 in many, many

                        locations. Brrrrrrrrrr. $3.00 is on the horizon

                        Steven Shepard
                        SBT Designs
                        25581 IH-10 West
                        San Antonio, Texas 78257
                        (210) 698-7109
                        www.sbtdesigns.com

                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "Robert Johnston" <junk1@...>
                        To: <hreg@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 7:06 AM
                        Subject: RE: [hreg] what's so great about hybrids?


                        I drove by my local Exxon yesterday and saw regular at $2.50/gal. Granny
                        will probably croak next time she tanks up.

                        I don't know much about cars, but what was the performance like on your
                        Civic VX? If I recall correctly, its technology gave it better performance
                        than other small, efficient cars like the Geo Metro. But I think the
                        hybrids today are offering even better performance, aren't they? I'm
                        assuming that is the draw. By performance I'm referring to acceleration,
                        mostly. I have a colleague who drives a Prius and she said she bought it
                        because she liked the technology, bells and whistles. It was "cool". She
                        readily admitted there wasn't any economic benefit. She's also a
                        scientist/engineer type.

                        Robert Johnston


                        > -----Original Message-----
                        > From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paul
                        > Archer
                        > Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2005 10:06 PM
                        > To: Houston RE Group
                        > Subject: [hreg] what's so great about hybrids?
                        >
                        > (Forgive me if I've asked this question before. I think I brought it up in
                        > another forum, but it might have been here.)
                        >
                        > While reading an interesting article on someone modifying his Toyota
                        > Prius,
                        > I noticed that according to the article, typical mileage is 45mpg.
                        > According
                        > to Edmunds, it's 51mpg highway / 60mpg city.
                        > While those are very good numbers, I had a '92 Civic VX that got 48mpg
                        > city/57mpg highway. That's not quite as good as a hybrid, but it's pretty
                        > damn good for a regular car.
                        > So are people enamored of hybrids because it's new technology, or because
                        > of
                        > a promise of much great fuel efficiency, or what? And why isn't the
                        > technology in the '92 Civic VX being used in practically every car out
                        > there?
                        > And while I'm ranting, why the hell was a little granny driving a Nissan
                        > 5.6L V8 SUV on the road next to me yesterday? What is up with this "bigger
                        > is better, so blotting out the sun huge is best" mentality?
                        >
                        > Paul Archer
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ----------------------------------------------
                        > "We Americans, we're a simple people...
                        > but piss us off, and we'll bomb your cities."
                        > --------------Robin Williams------------------
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >






                        Yahoo! Groups Links











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                        Yahoo! Groups Links
                      • Brian Harrison
                        With respect to the price of energy, hedge funds like the one T. Boone Pickens operates are part of the problem. Those funds have been buying futures contacts
                        Message 11 of 14 , Aug 15, 2005
                        • 0 Attachment
                          With respect to the price of energy, hedge funds like the one T. Boone Pickens operates are part of the problem. Those funds have been buying futures contacts on the NYMEX for the last year pushing up the price. When he's quoted as saying "Oil prices going higher", he's talking his position. The higher the price goes the more money he makes, several hundred million last year alone. Its not a secret, see the attached link. http://www.forbes.com/energy/2004/11/04/cx_tm_1104boonelander.html

                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of J. P. Malone
                          Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 2:18 PM
                          To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: RE: [hreg] what's so great about hybrids?


                          CNN said it is $3 in parts of California. Boone Pickens who has been correct in forecasting the moves through $40, $50 & $60 per barrel for oil, predicted last week S75 within the next 12 months.

                          Wonder how that calcs to per gallon price of gasoline?

                          J. Patrick Malone


                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of SBT Designs
                          Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 1:13 PM
                          To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [hreg] what's so great about hybrids?

                          I just got back from New Orleans. Regular gas there was $2.69 in many, many

                          locations. Brrrrrrrrrr. $3.00 is on the horizon

                          Steven Shepard
                          SBT Designs
                          25581 IH-10 West
                          San Antonio, Texas 78257
                          (210) 698-7109
                          www.sbtdesigns.com

                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: "Robert Johnston" <junk1@...>
                          To: <hreg@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 7:06 AM
                          Subject: RE: [hreg] what's so great about hybrids?


                          I drove by my local Exxon yesterday and saw regular at $2.50/gal. Granny will probably croak next time she tanks up.

                          I don't know much about cars, but what was the performance like on your Civic VX? If I recall correctly, its technology gave it better performance than other small, efficient cars like the Geo Metro. But I think the hybrids today are offering even better performance, aren't they? I'm assuming that is the draw. By performance I'm referring to acceleration, mostly. I have a colleague who drives a Prius and she said she bought it because she liked the technology, bells and whistles. It was "cool". She readily admitted there wasn't any economic benefit. She's also a scientist/engineer type.

                          Robert Johnston


                          > -----Original Message-----
                          > From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                          > Paul Archer
                          > Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2005 10:06 PM
                          > To: Houston RE Group
                          > Subject: [hreg] what's so great about hybrids?
                          >
                          > (Forgive me if I've asked this question before. I think I brought it
                          > up in another forum, but it might have been here.)
                          >
                          > While reading an interesting article on someone modifying his Toyota
                          > Prius, I noticed that according to the article, typical mileage is
                          > 45mpg. According
                          > to Edmunds, it's 51mpg highway / 60mpg city.
                          > While those are very good numbers, I had a '92 Civic VX that got 48mpg
                          > city/57mpg highway. That's not quite as good as a hybrid, but it's pretty
                          > damn good for a regular car.
                          > So are people enamored of hybrids because it's new technology, or because
                          > of
                          > a promise of much great fuel efficiency, or what? And why isn't the
                          > technology in the '92 Civic VX being used in practically every car out
                          > there?
                          > And while I'm ranting, why the hell was a little granny driving a Nissan
                          > 5.6L V8 SUV on the road next to me yesterday? What is up with this "bigger
                          > is better, so blotting out the sun huge is best" mentality?
                          >
                          > Paul Archer
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > ----------------------------------------------
                          > "We Americans, we're a simple people...
                          > but piss us off, and we'll bomb your cities." --------------Robin
                          > Williams------------------
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >






                          Yahoo! Groups Links











                          Yahoo! Groups Links






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                          Yahoo! Groups Links
                        • J. P. Malone
                          Regardless of his profit motive, his predictions have been the most accurate. J. Patrick Malone ... From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On
                          Message 12 of 14 , Aug 15, 2005
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Regardless of his profit motive, his predictions have been the most
                            accurate.

                            J. Patrick Malone


                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Brian
                            Harrison
                            Sent: Monday, August 15, 2005 8:37 AM
                            To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: RE: [hreg] what's so great about hybrids?


                            With respect to the price of energy, hedge funds like the one T. Boone
                            Pickens operates are part of the problem. Those funds have been buying
                            futures contacts on the NYMEX for the last year pushing up the price. When
                            he's quoted as saying "Oil prices going higher", he's talking his position.
                            The higher the price goes the more money he makes, several hundred million
                            last year alone. Its not a secret, see the attached link.
                            http://www.forbes.com/energy/2004/11/04/cx_tm_1104boonelander.html

                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of J. P.
                            Malone
                            Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 2:18 PM
                            To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: RE: [hreg] what's so great about hybrids?


                            CNN said it is $3 in parts of California. Boone Pickens who has been
                            correct in forecasting the moves through $40, $50 & $60 per barrel for oil,
                            predicted last week S75 within the next 12 months.

                            Wonder how that calcs to per gallon price of gasoline?

                            J. Patrick Malone


                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of SBT
                            Designs
                            Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 1:13 PM
                            To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [hreg] what's so great about hybrids?

                            I just got back from New Orleans. Regular gas there was $2.69 in many, many

                            locations. Brrrrrrrrrr. $3.00 is on the horizon

                            Steven Shepard
                            SBT Designs
                            25581 IH-10 West
                            San Antonio, Texas 78257
                            (210) 698-7109
                            www.sbtdesigns.com

                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: "Robert Johnston" <junk1@...>
                            To: <hreg@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 7:06 AM
                            Subject: RE: [hreg] what's so great about hybrids?


                            I drove by my local Exxon yesterday and saw regular at $2.50/gal. Granny
                            will probably croak next time she tanks up.

                            I don't know much about cars, but what was the performance like on your
                            Civic VX? If I recall correctly, its technology gave it better performance
                            than other small, efficient cars like the Geo Metro. But I think the
                            hybrids today are offering even better performance, aren't they? I'm
                            assuming that is the draw. By performance I'm referring to acceleration,
                            mostly. I have a colleague who drives a Prius and she said she bought it
                            because she liked the technology, bells and whistles. It was "cool". She
                            readily admitted there wasn't any economic benefit. She's also a
                            scientist/engineer type.

                            Robert Johnston


                            > -----Original Message-----
                            > From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                            > Paul Archer
                            > Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2005 10:06 PM
                            > To: Houston RE Group
                            > Subject: [hreg] what's so great about hybrids?
                            >
                            > (Forgive me if I've asked this question before. I think I brought it
                            > up in another forum, but it might have been here.)
                            >
                            > While reading an interesting article on someone modifying his Toyota
                            > Prius, I noticed that according to the article, typical mileage is
                            > 45mpg. According
                            > to Edmunds, it's 51mpg highway / 60mpg city.
                            > While those are very good numbers, I had a '92 Civic VX that got 48mpg
                            > city/57mpg highway. That's not quite as good as a hybrid, but it's pretty
                            > damn good for a regular car.
                            > So are people enamored of hybrids because it's new technology, or because
                            > of
                            > a promise of much great fuel efficiency, or what? And why isn't the
                            > technology in the '92 Civic VX being used in practically every car out
                            > there?
                            > And while I'm ranting, why the hell was a little granny driving a Nissan
                            > 5.6L V8 SUV on the road next to me yesterday? What is up with this "bigger
                            > is better, so blotting out the sun huge is best" mentality?
                            >
                            > Paul Archer
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ----------------------------------------------
                            > "We Americans, we're a simple people...
                            > but piss us off, and we'll bomb your cities." --------------Robin
                            > Williams------------------
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >






                            Yahoo! Groups Links











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