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Re: [hreg] timer for roof watering system

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  • David Power
    Paul, The number of on/off cycles allowed seems to be a bit low. If I remember correctly the recommended watering rate was 10 seconds every 10 minutes while
    Message 1 of 10 , Jul 21 10:29 AM
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      Paul,
       The number of on/off cycles allowed seems to be a bit low.
       If I remember correctly the recommended watering rate was 10 seconds every 10 minutes while the roof deck was above 95 degrees. With 16 on/off sessions this would limit me to 1.5 per hour during our 12+ hour sunshine periods. I'm still looking for a timer that would allow a preset 10/10 cycle to be switched in during daylight hours with a optional cutout that can be hooked to a temperature sensor. I have the feeling that a commercial product has to exist to do this.
       
      David 
       
      I just ran across a nice timer that would be perfect for a roof watering
      system:
      http://www.bgmicro.com/prodinfo.asp?sid=0434155092592593128249154202&prodid=ACS1460&page=1&cri=acs1460&stype=3&time_out=44:57

      (That's www.bgmicro.com and product ACS1460, if the above link doesn't work.
      It's also on the front page of their catalog, if you want to download the
      PDF.)


      Paul
    • Paul Archer
      That s true, if you re going to do that many cycles. I have a flat composition roof, so I m happy with fewer but longer cycles. (Untested as of yet--I haven t
      Message 2 of 10 , Jul 21 10:46 AM
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        That's true, if you're going to do that many cycles. I have a flat
        composition roof, so I'm happy with fewer but longer cycles. (Untested as of
        yet--I haven't put a system in yet.) Of course, right now I'm happy with
        rain every afternoon!

        Paul

        PS. I've thought about using a computer to control an X-10 appliance module.
        That should yield a flexible solution that could be combined with a few
        inputs (either X10 or just on the serial or parallel port) that could sense
        when the temprature was too low to bother with the sprinkler.



        12:29pm, David Power wrote:

        > Paul,
        > The number of on/off cycles allowed seems to be a bit low.
        > If I remember correctly the recommended watering rate was 10 seconds every 10 minutes while the roof deck was above 95 degrees. With 16 on/off sessions this would limit me to 1.5 per hour during our 12+ hour sunshine periods. I'm still looking for a timer that would allow a preset 10/10 cycle to be switched in during daylight hours with a optional cutout that can be hooked to a temperature sensor. I have the feeling that a commercial product has to exist to do this.
        >
        > David
        >
        > I just ran across a nice timer that would be perfect for a roof watering
        > system:
        > http://www.bgmicro.com/prodinfo.asp?sid=0434155092592593128249154202&prodid=ACS1460&page=1&cri=acs1460&stype=3&time_out=44:57
        >
        > (That's www.bgmicro.com and product ACS1460, if the above link doesn't work.
        > It's also on the front page of their catalog, if you want to download the
        > PDF.)
        >
        >
        > Paul
        >
        >
        >

        --------------------------------------------
        Never ascribe to malice what can perfectly
        well be explained by stupidity. -Anonymous
        --------------------------------------------
      • Garth & Kim Travis
        Greetings David, The commercial product that allows the 10/10 does exist, I am using it. It is described in the files section under roof watering system. If
        Message 3 of 10 , Jul 21 11:00 AM
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          Greetings David,
          The commercial product that allows the 10/10 does exist, I am using it.  It is described in the files section under roof watering system.  If you need help to find one, please contact me off list.  We bought ours in Bryan/College Station so I expect you should be able to get it in Houston.
          Bright Blessings,
          Kim

          At 12:29 PM 7/21/2005, you wrote:
          Paul,
           The number of on/off cycles allowed seems to be a bit low.
           If I remember correctly the recommended watering rate was 10 seconds every 10 minutes while the roof deck was above 95 degrees. With 16 on/off sessions this would limit me to 1.5 per hour during our 12+ hour sunshine periods. I'm still looking for a timer that would allow a preset 10/10 cycle to be switched in during daylight hours with a optional cutout that can be hooked to a temperature sensor. I have the feeling that a commercial product has to exist to do this.
           
          David
           
          I just ran across a nice timer that would be perfect for a roof watering
          system:
          http://www.bgmicro.com/prodinfo.asp?sid=0434155092592593128249154202&prodid=ACS1460&page=1&cri=acs1460&stype=3&time_out=44:57

          (That's www.bgmicro.com and product ACS1460, if the above link doesn't work.
          It's also on the front page of their catalog, if you want to download the
          PDF.)


          Paul


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        • David Power
          Thanks that looks like it will work, I m finding them on the net in the $65-$105 price range, is this about what you paid? I currently live out in the hill
          Message 4 of 10 , Jul 21 11:34 AM
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            Thanks that looks like it will work, I'm finding them on the net in the $65-$105 price range, is this about what you paid?
            I currently live out in the hill country and San Antonio would be my closest shopping area.
            It looks like I would need an octal mount and to build a power supply for the solenoids and timer.
             
             
            David
             
            Greetings David,
            The commercial product that allows the 10/10 does exist, I am using it.  It is described in the files section under roof watering system.  If you need help to find one, please contact me off list.  We bought ours in Bryan/College Station so I expect you should be able to get it in Houston.
            Bright Blessings,
            Kim
          • Garth & Kim Travis
            Greetings, I think we paid $80, so yes the price range is correct. A power supply? Are you using 12volt? We stay with our AC power by using a solonoid from
            Message 5 of 10 , Jul 21 12:05 PM
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              Greetings,

              I think we paid $80, so yes the price range is correct. 

              A power supply?  Are you using 12volt?  We stay with our AC power by using a solonoid from an old washer that works on AC.  If you have any questions, let me know and I will get hubby to answer this evening.  He does all the wiring and electronics work, as it is what he does for a living.

              Bright Blessings,
              Kim

              At 01:34 PM 7/21/2005, you wrote:
              Thanks that looks like it will work, I'm finding them on the net in the $65-$105 price range, is this about what you paid?
              I currently live out in the hill country and San Antonio would be my closest shopping area.
              It looks like I would need an octal mount and to build a power supply for the solenoids and timer.
               
               
              David
               
              Greetings David,
              The commercial product that allows the 10/10 does exist, I am using it.  It is described in the files section under roof watering system.  If you need help to find one, please contact me off list.  We bought ours in Bryan/College Station so I expect you should be able to get it in Houston.
              Bright Blessings,
              Kim



              YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



            • Jacques Huard
              Uh, This may not be a good solution for you, but with a little tinkering with some electronics you could come up with something that does exactly what you
              Message 6 of 10 , Jul 21 12:08 PM
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                Uh, This may not be a good solution for you, but with a little tinkering
                with some electronics you could come up with something that does exactly
                what you need. I know that this may not be an option for those with less
                electronics experience but it seems worth mentioning as it might give you
                other ideas.

                I would start with a 555 timer circuit for 10 min. intervals and a
                one-shot circuit (which can also be built using a 555 IC google monostable
                multivibrator) set for the 10 seconds watering interval, which is triggered
                by the previous. On the output of this, you could use a two input AND gate
                or NAND gate (try 7408 for AND) which is coupled with your input for the
                temperature. The input for the temperature could be derived from a thermo
                resistor, voltage reference and a comparator. Do this with the thermo
                resistor in a voltage divider configuration with the resistor "compared"
                with the voltage reference. Err, someone else might be able to come up with
                a better way to create a digital temperature input, but the comparator and
                voltage reference idea seems to be a pretty good solution to me. And it can
                be made adjustable. To lower the part count and connections you can use a
                comparator with built in voltage reference like a TSM109 from ST
                Microelectronics. That will make things things simple but you'll pay about
                a whole dollar more for a part like that. Oh, and use a 556 timer IC which
                gives you the two 555's you'll need. Anyway, I'd suggest taking the output
                of the AND and drive a NPN transistor (2N2222A is a good one to use here) to
                then drive a 5 volt low on-current relay (make sure to use a diode to block
                the inductance spike you'll get from the coil on the relay). Then you are
                free to wire in any solenoid or other controlled valve at any
                voltage/current the relay is rated for.


                So the parts list would look something like:

                1 556 Dual Timer
                1 Thermistor
                1 7408 AND gate
                1 Comparater with voltage reference
                (or a 741 OP amp and a 2.5 volt zener diode
                or other voltage reference)
                1 5 volt low current (100 mA) relay SPDT or better
                1 2n2222A transistor
                ? Resistors
                ? Capacitors for setting the timing for the intervals
                1 Prototype board (I like the ones at RadioShack)
                1 5 Volt Voltage Regulator (if you don't have a 5 volt supply)

                Total cost : I don't know, probably under $15 plus shipping.

                Summery :

                This circuit turns on the relay every 10 min. for 10 seconds, but only
                when the temperture meets the requirement set by the thermistor and resistor
                divider. Adjust the resistor to meet your tempeture requirements.


                Jacques


                -----Original Message-----
                From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
                Paul Archer
                Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 12:46 PM
                To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [hreg] timer for roof watering system


                That's true, if you're going to do that many cycles. I have a flat
                composition roof, so I'm happy with fewer but longer cycles. (Untested as of
                yet--I haven't put a system in yet.) Of course, right now I'm happy with
                rain every afternoon!

                Paul

                PS. I've thought about using a computer to control an X-10 appliance module.
                That should yield a flexible solution that could be combined with a few
                inputs (either X10 or just on the serial or parallel port) that could sense
                when the temprature was too low to bother with the sprinkler.



                12:29pm, David Power wrote:

                > Paul,
                > The number of on/off cycles allowed seems to be a bit low.
                > If I remember correctly the recommended watering rate was 10 seconds every
                10 minutes while the roof deck was above 95 degrees. With 16 on/off sessions
                this would limit me to 1.5 per hour during our 12+ hour sunshine periods.
                I'm still looking for a timer that would allow a preset 10/10 cycle to be
                switched in during daylight hours with a optional cutout that can be hooked
                to a temperature sensor. I have the feeling that a commercial product has to
                exist to do this.
                >
                > David
                >
                > I just ran across a nice timer that would be perfect for a roof watering
                > system:
                >
                http://www.bgmicro.com/prodinfo.asp?sid=0434155092592593128249154202&prodid=
                ACS1460&page=1&cri=acs1460&stype=3&time_out=44:57
                >
                > (That's www.bgmicro.com and product ACS1460, if the above link doesn't
                work.
                > It's also on the front page of their catalog, if you want to download the
                > PDF.)
                >
                >
                > Paul
                >
                >
                >

                --------------------------------------------
                Never ascribe to malice what can perfectly
                well be explained by stupidity. -Anonymous
                --------------------------------------------



                Yahoo! Groups Links
              • David Power
                The spec sheet I pulled was for the 24 volt unit. I found the 120v unit after I sent out the email. Regards, David I think we paid $80, so yes the price range
                Message 7 of 10 , Jul 21 12:19 PM
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                  The spec sheet I pulled was for the 24 volt unit. I found the 120v unit after I sent out the email.
                   
                  Regards,
                   
                  David

                  I think we paid $80, so yes the price range is correct. 

                  A power supply?  Are you using 12volt?  We stay with our AC power by using a solonoid from an old washer that works on AC.  If you have any questions, let me know and I will get hubby to answer this evening.  He does all the wiring and electronics work, as it is what he does for a living.

                  Bright Blessings,
                  Kim

                • David Power
                  This is going to be mounted on the roof of a 70 year old building in a nema enclosure, I have been hesitant to breadboard up something because of the heat to
                  Message 8 of 10 , Jul 21 12:24 PM
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                    This is going to be mounted on the roof of a 70 year old building in a nema enclosure, I have been hesitant to breadboard up something because of the heat to which this will be exposed (120+ degrees). Some of the off the shelf LED timers would do the job with an interposing relay. The location that this will be installed is over an hour drive from my home so Id like it to be very reliable.
                     
                    David
                    So the parts list would look something like:

                    1 556 Dual Timer
                    1 Thermistor
                    1 7408 AND gate
                    1 Comparater with voltage reference
                      (or a 741 OP amp and a 2.5 volt zener diode
                          or other voltage reference)
                    1 5 volt low current (100 mA) relay SPDT or better
                    1 2n2222A transistor
                    ? Resistors
                    ? Capacitors for setting the timing for the intervals
                    1 Prototype board (I like the ones at RadioShack)
                    1 5 Volt Voltage Regulator (if you don't have a 5 volt supply)

                    Total cost :  I don't know, probably under $15 plus shipping.

                    Summery :

                       This circuit turns on the relay every 10 min. for 10 seconds, but only
                    when the temperture meets the requirement set by the thermistor and resistor
                    divider.  Adjust the resistor to meet your tempeture requirements.


                       Jacques

                  • Garth & Kim Travis
                    Greetings, I had hubby look at your timer, but he says it would take hours upon hours to build and that makes the 80 we paid well worth it. He wants to put a
                    Message 9 of 10 , Jul 23 2:53 PM
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                      Greetings,
                      I had hubby look at your timer, but he says it would take hours upon hours
                      to build and that makes the 80 we paid well worth it. He wants to put a
                      thermicouple to a household thermastat for a control and see how that
                      works. It would be great since it means I would not have to remember to
                      turn it on and off, at sun up and down.
                      Bright Blessings,
                      Kim

                      At 02:08 PM 7/21/2005, you wrote:


                      > Uh, This may not be a good solution for you, but with a little tinkering
                      >with some electronics you could come up with something that does exactly
                      >what you need. I know that this may not be an option for those with less
                      >electronics experience but it seems worth mentioning as it might give you
                      >other ideas.
                      >
                      > I would start with a 555 timer circuit for 10 min. intervals and a
                      >one-shot circuit (which can also be built using a 555 IC google monostable
                      >multivibrator) set for the 10 seconds watering interval, which is triggered
                      >by the previous. On the output of this, you could use a two input AND gate
                      >or NAND gate (try 7408 for AND) which is coupled with your input for the
                      >temperature. The input for the temperature could be derived from a thermo
                      >resistor, voltage reference and a comparator. Do this with the thermo
                      >resistor in a voltage divider configuration with the resistor "compared"
                      >with the voltage reference. Err, someone else might be able to come up with
                      >a better way to create a digital temperature input, but the comparator and
                      >voltage reference idea seems to be a pretty good solution to me. And it can
                      >be made adjustable. To lower the part count and connections you can use a
                      >comparator with built in voltage reference like a TSM109 from ST
                      >Microelectronics. That will make things things simple but you'll pay about
                      >a whole dollar more for a part like that. Oh, and use a 556 timer IC which
                      >gives you the two 555's you'll need. Anyway, I'd suggest taking the output
                      >of the AND and drive a NPN transistor (2N2222A is a good one to use here) to
                      >then drive a 5 volt low on-current relay (make sure to use a diode to block
                      >the inductance spike you'll get from the coil on the relay). Then you are
                      >free to wire in any solenoid or other controlled valve at any
                      >voltage/current the relay is rated for.
                      >
                      >
                      >So the parts list would look something like:
                      >
                      >1 556 Dual Timer
                      >1 Thermistor
                      >1 7408 AND gate
                      >1 Comparater with voltage reference
                      > (or a 741 OP amp and a 2.5 volt zener diode
                      > or other voltage reference)
                      >1 5 volt low current (100 mA) relay SPDT or better
                      >1 2n2222A transistor
                      >? Resistors
                      >? Capacitors for setting the timing for the intervals
                      >1 Prototype board (I like the ones at RadioShack)
                      >1 5 Volt Voltage Regulator (if you don't have a 5 volt supply)
                      >
                      >Total cost : I don't know, probably under $15 plus shipping.
                      >
                      >Summery :
                      >
                      > This circuit turns on the relay every 10 min. for 10 seconds, but only
                      >when the temperture meets the requirement set by the thermistor and resistor
                      >divider. Adjust the resistor to meet your tempeture requirements.
                      >
                      >
                      > Jacques
                      >
                      >
                      >-----Original Message-----
                      >From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
                      >Paul Archer
                      >Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 12:46 PM
                      >To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                      >Subject: Re: [hreg] timer for roof watering system
                      >
                      >
                      >That's true, if you're going to do that many cycles. I have a flat
                      >composition roof, so I'm happy with fewer but longer cycles. (Untested as of
                      >yet--I haven't put a system in yet.) Of course, right now I'm happy with
                      >rain every afternoon!
                      >
                      >Paul
                      >
                      >PS. I've thought about using a computer to control an X-10 appliance module.
                      >That should yield a flexible solution that could be combined with a few
                      >inputs (either X10 or just on the serial or parallel port) that could sense
                      >when the temprature was too low to bother with the sprinkler.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >12:29pm, David Power wrote:
                      >
                      > > Paul,
                      > > The number of on/off cycles allowed seems to be a bit low.
                      > > If I remember correctly the recommended watering rate was 10 seconds every
                      >10 minutes while the roof deck was above 95 degrees. With 16 on/off sessions
                      >this would limit me to 1.5 per hour during our 12+ hour sunshine periods.
                      >I'm still looking for a timer that would allow a preset 10/10 cycle to be
                      >switched in during daylight hours with a optional cutout that can be hooked
                      >to a temperature sensor. I have the feeling that a commercial product has to
                      >exist to do this.
                      > >
                      > > David
                      > >
                      > > I just ran across a nice timer that would be perfect for a roof watering
                      > > system:
                      > >
                      >http://www.bgmicro.com/prodinfo.asp?sid=0434155092592593128249154202&prodid=
                      >ACS1460&page=1&cri=acs1460&stype=3&time_out=44:57
                      > >
                      > > (That's www.bgmicro.com and product ACS1460, if the above link doesn't
                      >work.
                      > > It's also on the front page of their catalog, if you want to download the
                      > > PDF.)
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Paul
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      >--------------------------------------------
                      > Never ascribe to malice what can perfectly
                      > well be explained by stupidity. -Anonymous
                      >--------------------------------------------
                      >
                      >
                      >
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