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Indirect Cooling

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  • Gary Beck
    Before I start a web search, I thought I d ask HREG for any experiences with indirect (non forced air) cooling water tube systems. This is similar to the
    Message 1 of 6 , Jun 21, 2005
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      Before I start a web search, I thought I’d ask HREG for any experiences with indirect (non forced air) cooling water tube systems.  

       

      This is similar to the heated water or glycol tube floor and ceiling systems used in colder climates, just in reverse.  Total capacities, cooling, and comfort performance is expected to be more modest than forced air conditioning.  The humidity would need to be removed by a drier or dehumidifier of some type.  I have no idea about energy efficiencies

       

      These systems are used more in Europe where summers are shorter, humidity is lower, or is just where they want to say they don’t ‘need’ air conditioning (like those wasteful Americans)   

       

      Anything local?  Contacts, sources, links, equipment suppliers, Installers etc.?

       

       


      From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lunce
      Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 11:11 AM
      To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [hreg] HREG Solar Tour 2005

       

      Dear All:

      Mark your calendars - we are starting the effort for the 2nd Annual HREG
      Houston Solar Tour (he, Houston and Solar all in one sentence!) -
      October 30th!

      Is there anyone amongst us that owns a sign company and will produces
      great yard signs?  It would be great if we can get consistant Bold yard
      signs which can be used from year to year, that can be placed infront of
      the homes on tour day.  I'd like to get the sign for each location, plus
      a couple of signs with arrows which we can place on the main street
      corners giving some direction.  Please email me at
      Lunce@... if you do.

      Thanks,
      Lunce

    • Roxanne Boyer
      Gary, I don t know what is available now, however, I have heard about the Persian systems used several thousands of years ago where they would put in a well
      Message 2 of 6 , Jun 22, 2005
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        Gary,
        I don't know what is available now, however, I have heard about the Persian systems used several thousands of years ago where they would put in a well pool in the basement, or subfloor, with vents.  The air would come in (passively) through the basement, cool by evaporation, then vent up through the house and exit the roof.  Ancient A/C.
        -Chris


        Gary Beck <eco@...> wrote:

        Before I start a web search, I thought I’d ask HREG for any experiences with indirect (non forced air) cooling water tube systems.  

         

        This is similar to the heated water or glycol tube floor and ceiling systems used in colder climates, just in reverse.  Total capacities, cooling, and comfort performance is expected to be more modest than forced air conditioning.  The humidity would need to be removed by a drier or dehumidifier of some type.  I have no idea about energy efficiencies

         

        These systems are used more in Europe where summers are shorter, humidity is lower, or is just where they want to say they don’t ‘need’ air conditioning (like those wasteful Americans)   

         

        Anything local?  Contacts, sources, links, equipment suppliers, Installers etc.?

         

         


        From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lunce
        Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 11:11 AM
        To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [hreg] HREG Solar Tour 2005

         

        Dear All:

        Mark your calendars - we are starting the effort for the 2nd Annual HREG
        Houston Solar Tour (he, Houston and Solar all in one sentence!) -
        October 30th!

        Is there anyone amongst us that owns a sign company and will produces
        great yard signs?  It would be great if we can get consistant Bold yard
        signs which can be used from year to year, that can be placed infront of
        the homes on tour day.  I'd like to get the sign for each location, plus
        a couple of signs with arrows which we can place on the main street
        corners giving some direction.  Please email me at
        Lunce@... if you do.

        Thanks,
        Lunce

      • Amanda Tullos
        Gary, Saw this on Oikos.com: Hydronic Cooling Can Cut Costs by Two-thirds In South Korea, virtually all homes (single-family, multi-family and high-rise) have
        Message 3 of 6 , Jun 22, 2005
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          Gary,
              Saw this on Oikos.com:

          Hydronic Cooling Can Cut Costs by Two-thirds
          In South Korea, virtually all homes (single-family, multi-family and high-rise) have hydronic radiant heat floor heating, according to Radiant Panel Report. Cooling is becoming important, prompting university professor Dr. Seung-Bok Leigh to conduct sophisticated research on cooling with hydronic floors. Dr. Leigh's recent American Society for Heating, Refrigeration and Air-conditioning Engineers (ASHRAE) report "A Study for Evaluating Performance of Radiant Floor Cooling Integrated with Controlled Ventilation details his research. His research shows that "radiant floor cooling with dehumidification can provide cooling with only one-third of the energy required by a conventional air conditioner." Radiant cooling also showed much faster response time.

          Dr. Leigh's research used a combination of laboratory test cubicles and computer simulations. The laboratory apparatus included 8 ft. x 8 ft. x 8 ft. cubicles designed specifically for analyzing radiant floor cooling and comparing it to conventional air conditioning. A fan coil provided dehumidification and supplemental cooling with fresh air ventilation set to provide one air change per hour.

          Results of the laboratory tests were applied to a computer simulation of identical 1,400 s.f. houses. Conventional cooling used 1,400 kWh of energy, while the radiant cooling system consumed only 501 kWh.

          With results like these, radiant cooling with dehumidifcation offers a viable alternative to conventional air-conditioning. Radiant Panel Report is published by the

          Hydronic Cooling Can Cut Costs by Two-thirds
          In South Korea, virtually all homes (single-family, multi-family and high-rise) have hydronic radiant heat floor heating, according to Radiant Panel Report. Cooling is becoming important, prompting university professor Dr. Seung-Bok Leigh to conduct sophisticated research on cooling with hydronic floors. Dr. Leigh's recent American Society for Heating, Refrigeration and Air-conditioning Engineers (ASHRAE) report "A Study for Evaluating Performance of Radiant Floor Cooling Integrated with Controlled Ventilation details his research. His research shows that "radiant floor cooling with dehumidification can provide cooling with only one-third of the energy required by a conventional air conditioner." Radiant cooling also showed much faster response time.

          Dr. Leigh's research used a combination of laboratory test cubicles and computer simulations. The laboratory apparatus included 8 ft. x 8 ft. x 8 ft. cubicles designed specifically for analyzing radiant floor cooling and comparing it to conventional air conditioning. A fan coil provided dehumidification and supplemental cooling with fresh air ventilation set to provide one air change per hour.

          Results of the laboratory tests were applied to a computer simulation of identical 1,400 s.f. houses. Conventional cooling used 1,400 kWh of energy, while the radiant cooling system consumed only 501 kWh.

          With results like these, radiant cooling with dehumidifcation offers a viable alternative to conventional air-conditioning. Radiant Panel Report is published by the Radiant Panel Association.

          Amanda Tullos, Assoc. AIA, LEED AP
          co-Chair
          AIA COTE - Houston
          American Institute of Architects
          Committee on the Environment
          http://www.aiahouston.org/cote

          Amanda Tullos, Assoc. AIA, LEED AP
          Heights Venture Architects, LLP
          1111 North Loop West, Suite 800
          Houston, TX 77008
          713.869.1103 x169
          amanda.tullos@...

           

           

           

           



          From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Roxanne Boyer
          Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 9:26 PM
          To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [hreg] Indirect Cooling

          Gary,
          I don't know what is available now, however, I have heard about the Persian systems used several thousands of years ago where they would put in a well pool in the basement, or subfloor, with vents.  The air would come in (passively) through the basement, cool by evaporation, then vent up through the house and exit the roof.  Ancient A/C.
          -Chris


          Gary Beck <eco@...> wrote:

          Before I start a web search, I thought I’d ask HREG for any experiences with indirect (non forced air) cooling water tube systems.  

           

          This is similar to the heated water or glycol tube floor and ceiling systems used in colder climates, just in reverse.  Total capacities, cooling, and comfort performance is expected to be more modest than forced air conditioning.  The humidity would need to be removed by a drier or dehumidifier of some type.  I have no idea about energy efficiencies

           

          These systems are used more in Europe where summers are shorter, humidity is lower, or is just where they want to say they don’t ‘need’ air conditioning (like those wasteful Americans)   

           

          Anything local?  Contacts, sources, links, equipment suppliers, Installers etc.?

           

           


          From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lunce
          Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 11:11 AM
          To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [hreg] HREG Solar Tour 2005

           

          Dear All:

          Mark your calendars - we are starting the effort for the 2nd Annual HREG
          Houston Solar Tour (he, Houston and Solar all in one sentence!) -
          October 30th!

          Is there anyone amongst us that owns a sign company and will produces
          great yard signs?  It would be great if we can get consistant Bold yard
          signs which can be used from year to year, that can be placed infront of
          the homes on tour day.  I'd like to get the sign for each location, plus
          a couple of signs with arrows which we can place on the main street
          corners giving some direction.  Please email me at
          Lunce@... if you do.

          Thanks,
          Lunce


          --
          No virus found in this incoming message.
          Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
          Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.7.10/25 - Release Date: 6/21/2005


          --
          No virus found in this outgoing message.
          Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
          Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.7.10/25 - Release Date: 6/21/2005

        • Nan Hildreth
          Geothermal, someone said, can be about the same price as traditional central a/c & heat systems. ... Nan Hildreth, Houston 713-842-6643 NanHildreth@pdq.net
          Message 4 of 6 , Jun 23, 2005
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            Geothermal, someone said, can be about the same price as traditional central a/c & heat systems.   

            At 11:17 PM 6/22/2005, Amanda Tullos wrote:
            Gary,
                Saw this on Oikos.com:

            Hydronic Cooling Can Cut Costs by Two-thirds
            In South Korea, virtually all homes (single-family, multi-family and high-rise) have hydronic radiant heat floor heating, according to Radiant Panel Report. Cooling is becoming important, prompting university professor Dr. Seung-Bok Leigh to conduct sophisticated research on cooling with hydronic floors. Dr. Leigh's recent American Society for Heating, Refrigeration and Air-conditioning Engineers (ASHRAE) report "A Study for Evaluating Performance of Radiant Floor Cooling Integrated with Controlled Ventilation details his research. His research shows that "radiant floor cooling with dehumidification can provide cooling with only one-third of the energy required by a conventional air conditioner." Radiant cooling also showed much faster response time.

            Dr. Leigh's research used a combination of laboratory test cubicles and computer simulations. The laboratory apparatus included 8 ft. x 8 ft. x 8 ft. cubicles designed specifically for analyzing radiant floor cooling and comparing it to conventional air conditioning. A fan coil provided dehumidification and supplemental cooling with fresh air ventilation set to provide one air change per hour.

            Results of the laboratory tests were applied to a computer simulation of identical 1,400 s.f. houses. Conventional cooling used 1,400 kWh of energy, while the radiant cooling system consumed only 501 kWh.

            With results like these, radiant cooling with dehumidifcation offers a viable alternative to conventional air-conditioning. Radiant Panel Report is published by the

            Hydronic Cooling Can Cut Costs by Two-thirds
            In South Korea, virtually all homes (single-family, multi-family and high-rise) have hydronic radiant heat floor heating, according to Radiant Panel Report. Cooling is becoming important, prompting university professor Dr. Seung-Bok Leigh to conduct sophisticated research on cooling with hydronic floors. Dr. Leigh's recent American Society for Heating, Refrigeration and Air-conditioning Engineers (ASHRAE) report "A Study for Evaluating Performance of Radiant Floor Cooling Integrated with Controlled Ventilation details his research. His research shows that "radiant floor cooling with dehumidification can provide cooling with only one-third of the energy required by a conventional air conditioner." Radiant cooling also showed much faster response time.

            Dr. Leigh's research used a combination of laboratory test cubicles and computer simulations. The laboratory apparatus included 8 ft. x 8 ft. x 8 ft. cubicles designed specifically for analyzing radiant floor cooling and comparing it to conventional air conditioning. A fan coil provided dehumidification and supplemental cooling with fresh air ventilation set to provide one air change per hour.

            Results of the laboratory tests were applied to a computer simulation of identical 1,400 s.f. houses. Conventional cooling used 1,400 kWh of energy, while the radiant cooling system consumed only 501 kWh.

            With results like these, radiant cooling with dehumidifcation offers a viable alternative to conventional air-conditioning. Radiant Panel Report is published by the
            Radiant Panel Association.

            Amanda Tullos, Assoc. AIA, LEED AP
            co-Chair
            AIA COTE - Houston
            American Institute of Architects
            Committee on the Environment
            http://www.aiahouston.org/cote

            Amanda Tullos, Assoc. AIA, LEED AP
            Heights Venture Architects, LLP
            1111 North Loop West, Suite 800
            Houston, TX 77008
            713.869.1103 x169
            amanda.tullos@...

             

             

             

             


            From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Roxanne Boyer
            Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 9:26 PM
            To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [hreg] Indirect Cooling

            Gary,
            I don't know what is available now, however, I have heard about the Persian systems used several thousands of years ago where they would put in a well pool in the basement, or subfloor, with vents.  The air would come in (passively) through the basement, cool by evaporation, then vent up through the house and exit the roof.  Ancient A/C.
            -Chris


            Gary Beck <eco@...> wrote:
            Before I start a web search, I thought I d ask HREG for any experiences with indirect (non forced air) cooling water tube systems. 
             
            This is similar to the heated water or glycol tube floor and ceiling systems used in colder climates, just in reverse.  Total capacities, cooling, and comfort performance is expected to be more modest than forced air conditioning.  The humidity would need to be removed by a drier or dehumidifier of some type.  I have no idea about energy efficiencies
             
            These systems are used more in Europe where summers are shorter, humidity is lower, or is just where they want to say they don t need air conditioning (like those wasteful Americans)  
             
            Anything local?  Contacts, sources, links, equipment suppliers, Installers etc.?
             
             
            From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lunce
            Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 11:11 AM
            To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [hreg] HREG Solar Tour 2005
             

            Dear All:


            Mark your calendars - we are starting the effort for the 2nd Annual HREG
            Houston Solar Tour (he, Houston and Solar all in one sentence!) -
            October 30th!


            Is there anyone amongst us that owns a sign company and will produces
            great yard signs?  It would be great if we can get consistant Bold yard
            signs which can be used from year to year, that can be placed infront of
            the homes on tour day.  I'd like to get the sign for each location, plus
            a couple of signs with arrows which we can place on the main street
            corners giving some direction.  Please email me at
            Lunce@... if you do.


            Thanks,
            Lunce



            --
            No virus found in this incoming message.
            Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
            Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.7.10/25 - Release Date: 6/21/2005


            Yahoo! Groups Links
            --
            No virus found in this outgoing message.
            Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
            Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.7.10/25 - Release Date: 6/21/2005


            Nan Hildreth, Houston
            713-842-6643   NanHildreth@...
            713-443-3104 cell
            3939 Luca St.
            Houston, Tx 77021


          • Robert Johnston
            I have to say that this brings back a lot of old memories. I was born in Korea and lived there until I was 9, and at that time (just a few years after the
            Message 5 of 6 , Jun 23, 2005
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              I have to say that this brings back a lot of old memories.  I was born in Korea and lived there until I was 9, and at that time (just a few years after the Korean War), Korea was very poor and mostly agrarian.  Traditional Korean homes had raised floors over a crawl space, and during the bitter cold winters, they would burn coal brickets under the floor (“undal floor” (sp?)).  There were no chairs.  People said crosslegged on the floor, or perhaps on a small throw cushion.  Sleeping was usually on the floor on a mat or pad.  The warm floor was the source of the home heating.  The seat of honor was the “hot seat”, literally—the place right above the fire.  Sadly, many, many people died of carbon monoxide poisoning in those structures.

               

              Hydronic heating would be a natural in Korea given the traditional construction.  It would cater to what people are used to.  It would be a vast improvement over the traditional design by eliminating the carbon monoxide poisoning risk (assuming the water was heated safely), and would also distribute the heat more evenly (eliminating the hot seat).  It makes sense that Koreans would look for a way to use such systems for cooling as well.

               

              Robert Johnston

               

               

              -----Original Message-----
              From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Nan Hildreth
              Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 2:31 PM
              To: hreg@yahoogroups.com; hreg@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: RE: [hreg] Indirect Cooling

               

              Geothermal, someone said, can be about the same price as traditional central a/c & heat systems.   

              At 11:17 PM 6/22/2005, Amanda Tullos wrote:

              Gary,
                  Saw this on Oikos.com:

              Hydronic Cooling Can Cut Costs by Two-thirds
              In South Korea, virtually all homes (single-family, multi-family and high-rise) have hydronic radiant heat floor heating, according to Radiant Panel Report. Cooling is becoming important, prompting university professor Dr. Seung-Bok Leigh to conduct sophisticated research on cooling with hydronic floors. Dr. Leigh's recent American Society for Heating, Refrigeration and Air-conditioning Engineers (ASHRAE) report "A Study for Evaluating Performance of Radiant Floor Cooling Integrated with Controlled Ventilation details his research. His research shows that "radiant floor cooling with dehumidification can provide cooling with only one-third of the energy required by a conventional air conditioner." Radiant cooling also showed much faster response time.

              Dr. Leigh's research used a combination of laboratory test cubicles and computer simulations. The laboratory apparatus included 8 ft. x 8 ft. x 8 ft. cubicles designed specifically for analyzing radiant floor cooling and comparing it to conventional air conditioning. A fan coil provided dehumidification and supplemental cooling with fresh air ventilation set to provide one air change per hour.

              Results of the laboratory tests were applied to a computer simulation of identical 1,400 s.f. houses. Conventional cooling used 1,400 kWh of energy, while the radiant cooling system consumed only 501 kWh.

              With results like these, radiant cooling with dehumidifcation offers a viable alternative to conventional air-conditioning. Radiant Panel Report is published by the

              Hydronic Cooling Can Cut Costs by Two-thirds
              In South Korea, virtually all homes (single-family, multi-family and high-rise) have hydronic radiant heat floor heating, according to Radiant Panel Report. Cooling is becoming important, prompting university professor Dr. Seung-Bok Leigh to conduct sophisticated research on cooling with hydronic floors. Dr. Leigh's recent American Society for Heating, Refrigeration and Air-conditioning Engineers (ASHRAE) report "A Study for Evaluating Performance of Radiant Floor Cooling Integrated with Controlled Ventilation details his research. His research shows that "radiant floor cooling with dehumidification can provide cooling with only one-third of the energy required by a conventional air conditioner." Radiant cooling also showed much faster response time.

              Dr. Leigh's research used a combination of laboratory test cubicles and computer simulations. The laboratory apparatus included 8 ft. x 8 ft. x 8 ft. cubicles designed specifically for analyzing radiant floor cooling and comparing it to conventional air conditioning. A fan coil provided dehumidification and supplemental cooling with fresh air ventilation set to provide one air change per hour.

              Results of the laboratory tests were applied to a computer simulation of identical 1,400 s.f. houses. Conventional cooling used 1,400 kWh of energy, while the radiant cooling system consumed only 501 kWh.

              With results like these, radiant cooling with dehumidifcation offers a viable alternative to conventional air-conditioning. Radiant Panel Report is published by the
              Radiant Panel Association.

              Amanda Tullos, Assoc. AIA, LEED AP
              co-Chair
              AIA COTE - Houston
              American Institute of Architects
              Committee on the Environment
              http://www.aiahouston.org/cote

              Amanda Tullos, Assoc. AIA, LEED AP
              Heights Venture Architects, LLP
              1111 North Loop West, Suite 800
              Houston, TX 77008
              713.869.1103 x169
              amanda.tullos@...

               

               

               

               


              From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Roxanne Boyer
              Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 9:26 PM
              To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [hreg] Indirect Cooling

              Gary,
              I don't know what is available now, however, I have heard about the Persian systems used several thousands of years ago where they would put in a well pool in the basement, or subfloor, with vents.  The air would come in (passively) through the basement, cool by evaporation, then vent up through the house and exit the roof.  Ancient A/C.
              -Chris


              Gary Beck <eco@...> wrote:

              Before I start a web search, I thought I d ask HREG for any experiences with indirect (non forced air) cooling water tube systems. 

               

              This is similar to the heated water or glycol tube floor and ceiling systems used in colder climates, just in reverse.  Total capacities, cooling, and comfort performance is expected to be more modest than forced air conditioning.  The humidity would need to be removed by a drier or dehumidifier of some type.  I have no idea about energy efficiencies

               

              These systems are used more in Europe where summers are shorter, humidity is lower, or is just where they want to say they don t need air conditioning (like those wasteful Americans)  

               

              Anything local?  Contacts, sources, links, equipment suppliers, Installers etc.?

               

               


              From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lunce

              Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 11:11 AM

              To: hreg@yahoogroups.com

              Subject: [hreg] HREG Solar Tour 2005

               

              Dear All:

              Mark your calendars - we are starting the effort for the 2nd Annual HREG

              Houston Solar Tour (he, Houston and Solar all in one sentence!) -

              October 30th!

              Is there anyone amongst us that owns a sign company and will produces

              great yard signs?  It would be great if we can get consistant Bold yard

              signs which can be used from year to year, that can be placed infront of

              the homes on tour day.  I'd like to get the sign for each location, plus

              a couple of signs with arrows which we can place on the main street

              corners giving some direction.  Please email me at

              Lunce@... if you do.

              Thanks,

              Lunce


              --
              No virus found in this incoming message.
              Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
              Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.7.10/25 - Release Date: 6/21/2005


              Yahoo! Groups Links


              --
              No virus found in this outgoing message.
              Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
              Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.7.10/25 - Release Date: 6/21/2005

               

              Nan Hildreth, Houston

              713-842-6643   NanHildreth@...

              713-443-3104 cell

              3939 Luca St.

              Houston, Tx 77021




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