Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [hreg] Fwd: Study gives technical go-ahead to 10% wind penetration in New Yo

Expand Messages
  • C.C. Foster
    FYI RE: electrical power surges, swells and sags Electrical power surges are invisible and frequently cause severe damage to electrical components. An example
    Message 1 of 4 , Feb 12, 2005
    • 0 Attachment
      FYI

      RE: electrical power surges, swells and sags

      Electrical power surges are invisible and frequently cause severe damage to
      electrical components.

      An example of power surges can be HEARD on an engine driven welding machine.
      When the welder strikes an arc the engine suddnly slows down just at the
      instant the welding begins until the governor readjusts the speed. You can
      tell the engine runs slightly slower under load that when it has no load.
      The differenct in speed is called governor "speed regulation".

      The voltage also SAGS a little before the automatic voltage regulator
      restores the voltage. You cannot HEAR this adjustment but it is very similar
      to the speed decrease. The automatic voltage response is also very much
      faster than the governor because it is electronic rather than mechanical.
      The load voltage is also a little lower than the unloaded generator voltage
      and the difference is called the voltage regulation.

      When the welder lifts his rod, the engine speeds up slightly and the
      voltage increases. This results in a SURGE or SWELL. The engine speed and
      the generator voltage each jump a little and the governor and the voltage
      regulator respond to correct the unbalance between setpoint and actual
      values. Again the speed of the engine can be heard but the response of the
      voltage regulator cannot be seen or heard.

      Most engine driven generators respond quickly to load changes because their
      momentum is low. Wind generators have a lot of momentum so they respond much
      slower than engine driven generators. Thus the SURGES and SAGS take much
      longer to correct. Any grid must have some quick responding generators if
      many slow responding generators (wind mills) are on line or severe

      Another problem comes up when the throttles are trying to increase the power
      level to compensate for a load increase when the load decreases suddenly.
      Now the machine is trying to speed up at the same time the load is dropping.
      The governors need SUPPLEMENTARY CONTROL under this circumstance. The
      welding machine is not a good enough example to show how this supplementary
      control is applied but you can see that the governors and voltage requlators
      could become confused unless they had some invisible and reliable help.


      I trust this will help you understand SOME of the issues with controlling
      power generation and some of the unseen cost of operating a grid.

      The hreg may not be interested in a lot of this kind of talk so I request
      you let me know if you would like to discuss this further:
      C_C_Foster@....


      <html><div><FONT face="Lucida Handwriting, Cursive">Claude
      Foster</FONT></div></html>



      >From: "David Power" <dpower@...>
      >Reply-To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
      >To: <hreg@yahoogroups.com>
      >Subject: Re: [hreg] Fwd: Study gives technical go-ahead to 10% wind
      penetration in New York state
      >Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 12:53:39 -0600
      >
      >It's sad indeed.
      >How about the comparison between a regular power plant and a wind farm
      as
      >far as land usage. The don't seem to mention that you can still actually
      use
      >the land the wind farm occupies, the cows and corn don't seem to mind a
      bit.
      >I also didn't realize that Germany was having grid stabilization
      problems
      >due to the amount of wind production. We were there last fall and there
      were
      >wind generators everywhere showing very fancy paint jobs to blend them
      into
      >the surrounding terrain. I never did notice a glitch or blackout. We did
      see
      >some amazing 3 Meg test machines.
      >
      >David
      >
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: Andrew McCalla
      > To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 12:25 PM
      > Subject: RE: [hreg] Fwd: Study gives technical go-ahead to 10% wind
      >penetration in New York state
      >
      >
      > Well, of all the technologies reviewed in that document, Clean Coal
      is the
      >only one without a "Costs and Challenges" overview, so that
      must be the best
      >one.
      >
      >
      >
      > Andrew H. McCalla
      >
      > Meridian Energy Systems
      >
      > 2300 S. Lamar, Ste. 107
      >
      > Austin, TX 78704
      >
      >
      >
      > Voice: (512) 448-0055
      >
      > Fax: (512) 448-0045
      >
      > www.meridiansolar.com
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >----------------------------------------------------------------------------
      >--
      >
      > From: David Power [mailto:dpower@...]
      > Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 12:00 PM
      > To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: Fw: [hreg] Fwd: Study gives technical go-ahead to 10% wind
      >penetration in New York state
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > That's refreshing, I'm attaching a PDF that is being handed around
      the Leg
      >in Austin right now authored by the Association of Electric Companies of
      >Texas . Its not very flattering to renewables. If the attachment doesn't
      go
      >through you can grab it off of their web site. http://tinyurl.com/6kks3.
      >
      >
      >
      > David
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      >
      > From: Tom Gray
      >
      > To: tomgray@...
      >
      > Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 12:37 AM
      >
      > Subject: [hreg] Fwd: Study gives technical go-ahead to 10% wind
      >penetration in New York state
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > >Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2005 14:31:50 -0500
      > >From: "Christine Real de Azua"
      <Christine@...>
      > >To: "Christine Real de Azua"
      <Christine@...>
      > >Subject: Study gives technical go-ahead to 10% wind penetration
      in New
      > > York state
      > >
      > >Dear energy editor,
      > >
      > >The New York State Energy Research and Development Authority
      (NYSERDA)
      >has
      > >released the final draft of a technical study on integrating
      wind
      >energy
      > >into the New York grid, which concludes that a 10% penetration
      level of
      > >wind can be accommodated without major changes in the planning,
      > >operations, or reliability of the state's bulk power system.
      > >
      > >"This technical analysis lays to rest any concerns about
      integrating
      > >substantial amounts of wind energy into the New York grid, and
      finds
      >that
      > >more wind power will in some cases improve reliability,"
      said American
      > >Wind Energy Association (AWEA) Acting Policy Director Michael
      Jacobs.
      >"The
      > >technical findings will also be very useful to other regions
      that are
      > >adding wind to their systems, even with regional
      differences."
      > >
      > >In particular, the study found that:
      > >
      > >* The incremental increase of 10% wind power can be
      accommodated
      >by
      > >existing processes and resource in NY state, whether this is in
      the
      > >minutes, hours, days, or years management time frames;
      > >
      > >* Even without forecasts, wind energy displaces
      conventional
      > >generation, reduces system operating costs, and reduces
      emissions;
      > >
      > >* No change to spinning reserve requirements would be
      needed;
      > >
      > >* State-of-the art wind turbines improve post-fault
      response of
      >the
      > >interconnected power grid.
      > >
      > >
      > >The study focuses on a wind generation scenario of 3,300 MW,
      >corresponding
      > >to approximately 10% of New York State's 2008 projected peak
      load. The
      > >state's Renewables Portfolio Standard is expected to result in
      about
      >the
      > >estimated 3,700 megawatts (MW) of new renewable generation by
      2013.
      >This
      > >final draft builds on a preliminary assessment released in
      early 2004,
      > >which also indicated that large-scale wind generation should
      not cause
      > >significant adverse impacts.
      > >
      > >AWEA will file technical comments on certain sections of the
      study.
      > >
      > >NYSERDA requested the study from GE Energy Consulting because
      of this
      > >consulting company's widely recognized expertise on grid
      integration
      > >issues for all technologies. Albany-based AWS Truewind, a
      significant
      > >support contractor, supplied wind resource, wind plant
      production and
      > >forecasting data to GE.
      > >
      > >The study is available on NYSERDA's web site at
      > >http://www.nyserda.org/rps/default.asp.
      > >
      > >Please contact Christine Real de Azua at (202) 383-2508 for
      additional
      > >information and industry contacts.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >Christine Real de Azua
      > >Assistant Director of Communications
      > >American Wind Energy Association
      > >Direct phone: (202) 383-2508
      > >Fax: (202) 383-2505
      > >Email: Christine@...
      > >Web: www.awea.org
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
      > ADVERTISEMENT
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >----------------------------------------------------------------------------
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hreg/
      >
      > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      > hreg-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      >
      > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
      >Service.
      >
    Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.