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RE: [hreg] Fwd: Study gives technical go-ahead to 10% wind penetration in New York state

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  • Andrew McCalla
    Well, of all the technologies reviewed in that document, Clean Coal is the only one without a Costs and Challenges overview, so that must be the best one.
    Message 1 of 4 , Feb 9, 2005

      Well, of all the technologies reviewed in that document, Clean Coal is the only one without a “Costs and Challenges” overview, so that must be the best one.

       

      Andrew H. McCalla

      Meridian Energy Systems

      2300 S. Lamar, Ste. 107

      Austin, TX   78704

       

      Voice: (512) 448-0055

      Fax:    (512) 448-0045

      www.meridiansolar.com

       


      From: David Power [mailto:dpower@...]
      Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 12:00 PM
      To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Fw: [hreg] Fwd: Study gives technical go-ahead to 10% wind penetration in New York state

       

       

      That's refreshing, I'm attaching a PDF that is being handed around the Leg in Austin right now authored by the Association of Electric Companies of Texas  . Its not very flattering to renewables. If the attachment doesn't go through you can grab it off of their web site. http://tinyurl.com/6kks3.

       

      David

      ----- Original Message -----

      From: Tom Gray

      Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 12:37 AM

      Subject: [hreg] Fwd: Study gives technical go-ahead to 10% wind penetration in New York state

       


      >Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2005 14:31:50 -0500
      >From: "Christine Real de Azua" <Christine@...>
      >To: "Christine Real de Azua" <Christine@...>
      >Subject: Study gives technical go-ahead to 10% wind penetration in New
      >         York state
      >
      >Dear energy editor,
      >
      >The New York State Energy Research and Development Authority (NYSERDA) has
      >released the final draft of a technical study on integrating wind energy
      >into the New York grid, which concludes that a 10% penetration level of
      >wind can be accommodated without major changes in the planning,
      >operations, or reliability of the state's bulk power system.
      >
      >"This technical analysis lays to rest any concerns about integrating
      >substantial amounts of wind energy into the New York grid, and finds that
      >more wind power will in some cases improve reliability," said American
      >Wind Energy Association (AWEA) Acting Policy Director Michael Jacobs. "The
      >technical findings will also be very useful to other regions that are
      >adding wind to their systems, even with regional differences."
      >
      >In particular, the study found that:
      >
      >*       The incremental increase of 10% wind power can be accommodated by
      >existing processes and resource in NY state, whether this is in the
      >minutes, hours, days, or years management time frames;
      >
      >*       Even without forecasts, wind energy displaces conventional
      >generation, reduces system operating costs, and reduces emissions;
      >
      >*       No change to spinning reserve requirements would be needed;
      >
      >*       State-of-the art wind turbines improve post-fault response of the
      >interconnected power grid.
      >
      >
      >The study focuses on a wind generation scenario of 3,300 MW, corresponding
      >to approximately 10% of New York State 's 2008 projected peak load.  The
      >state's Renewables Portfolio Standard is expected to result in about the
      >estimated 3,700 megawatts (MW) of new renewable generation by 2013.  This
      >final draft builds on a preliminary assessment released in early 2004,
      >which also indicated that large-scale wind generation should not cause
      >significant adverse impacts.
      >
      >AWEA will file technical comments on certain sections of the study.
      >
      >NYSERDA requested the study from GE Energy Consulting because of this
      >consulting company's widely recognized expertise on grid integration
      >issues for all technologies.  Albany-based AWS Truewind, a significant
      >support contractor, supplied wind resource, wind plant production and
      >forecasting data to GE.
      >
      >The study is available on NYSERDA's web site at
      >http://www.nyserda.org/rps/default.asp.
      >
      >Please contact Christine Real de Azua at (202) 383-2508 for additional
      >information and industry contacts.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >Christine Real de Azua
      >Assistant Director of Communications
      >American Wind Energy Association
      >Direct phone: (202) 383-2508
      >Fax: (202) 383-2505
      >Email: Christine@...
      >Web: www.awea.org




    • David Power
      It s sad indeed. How about the comparison between a regular power plant and a wind farm as far as land usage. The don t seem to mention that you can still
      Message 2 of 4 , Feb 9, 2005
        It's sad indeed. 
        How about the comparison between a regular power plant and a wind farm as far as land usage. The don't seem to mention that you can still actually use the land the wind farm occupies, the cows and corn don't seem to mind a bit.
        I also didn't realize that Germany was having grid stabilization problems due to the amount of wind production. We were there last fall and there were wind generators everywhere showing very fancy paint jobs to blend them into the surrounding terrain. I never did notice a glitch or blackout. We did see some amazing 3 Meg test machines.
         
        David
         
         
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 12:25 PM
        Subject: RE: [hreg] Fwd: Study gives technical go-ahead to 10% wind penetration in New York state

        Well, of all the technologies reviewed in that document, Clean Coal is the only one without a “Costs and Challenges” overview, so that must be the best one.

         

        Andrew H. McCalla

        Meridian Energy Systems

        2300 S. Lamar, Ste. 107

        Austin, TX   78704

         

        Voice: (512) 448-0055

        Fax:    (512) 448-0045

        www.meridiansolar.com

         


        From: David Power [mailto:dpower@...]
        Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 12:00 PM
        To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Fw: [hreg] Fwd: Study gives technical go-ahead to 10% wind penetration in New York state

         

         

        That's refreshing, I'm attaching a PDF that is being handed around the Leg in Austin right now authored by the Association of Electric Companies of Texas  . Its not very flattering to renewables. If the attachment doesn't go through you can grab it off of their web site. http://tinyurl.com/6kks3.

         

        David

        ----- Original Message -----

        From: Tom Gray

        Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 12:37 AM

        Subject: [hreg] Fwd: Study gives technical go-ahead to 10% wind penetration in New York state

         


        >Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2005 14:31:50 -0500
        >From: "Christine Real de Azua" <Christine@...>
        >To: "Christine Real de Azua" <Christine@...>
        >Subject: Study gives technical go-ahead to 10% wind penetration in New
        >         York state
        >
        >Dear energy editor,
        >
        >The New York State Energy Research and Development Authority (NYSERDA) has
        >released the final draft of a technical study on integrating wind energy
        >into the New York grid, which concludes that a 10% penetration level of
        >wind can be accommodated without major changes in the planning,
        >operations, or reliability of the state's bulk power system.
        >
        >"This technical analysis lays to rest any concerns about integrating
        >substantial amounts of wind energy into the New York grid, and finds that
        >more wind power will in some cases improve reliability," said American
        >Wind Energy Association (AWEA) Acting Policy Director Michael Jacobs. "The
        >technical findings will also be very useful to other regions that are
        >adding wind to their systems, even with regional differences."
        >
        >In particular, the study found that:
        >
        >*       The incremental increase of 10% wind power can be accommodated by
        >existing processes and resource in NY state, whether this is in the
        >minutes, hours, days, or years management time frames;
        >
        >*       Even without forecasts, wind energy displaces conventional
        >generation, reduces system operating costs, and reduces emissions;
        >
        >*       No change to spinning reserve requirements would be needed;
        >
        >*       State-of-the art wind turbines improve post-fault response of the
        >interconnected power grid.
        >
        >
        >The study focuses on a wind generation scenario of 3,300 MW, corresponding
        >to approximately 10% of New York State 's 2008 projected peak load.  The
        >state's Renewables Portfolio Standard is expected to result in about the
        >estimated 3,700 megawatts (MW) of new renewable generation by 2013.  This
        >final draft builds on a preliminary assessment released in early 2004,
        >which also indicated that large-scale wind generation should not cause
        >significant adverse impacts.
        >
        >AWEA will file technical comments on certain sections of the study.
        >
        >NYSERDA requested the study from GE Energy Consulting because of this
        >consulting company's widely recognized expertise on grid integration
        >issues for all technologies.  Albany-based AWS Truewind, a significant
        >support contractor, supplied wind resource, wind plant production and
        >forecasting data to GE.
        >
        >The study is available on NYSERDA's web site at
        >http://www.nyserda.org/rps/default.asp.
        >
        >Please contact Christine Real de Azua at (202) 383-2508 for additional
        >information and industry contacts.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >Christine Real de Azua
        >Assistant Director of Communications
        >American Wind Energy Association
        >Direct phone: (202) 383-2508
        >Fax: (202) 383-2505
        >Email: Christine@...
        >Web: www.awea.org





      • C.C. Foster
        FYI RE: electrical power surges, swells and sags Electrical power surges are invisible and frequently cause severe damage to electrical components. An example
        Message 3 of 4 , Feb 12, 2005
          FYI

          RE: electrical power surges, swells and sags

          Electrical power surges are invisible and frequently cause severe damage to
          electrical components.

          An example of power surges can be HEARD on an engine driven welding machine.
          When the welder strikes an arc the engine suddnly slows down just at the
          instant the welding begins until the governor readjusts the speed. You can
          tell the engine runs slightly slower under load that when it has no load.
          The differenct in speed is called governor "speed regulation".

          The voltage also SAGS a little before the automatic voltage regulator
          restores the voltage. You cannot HEAR this adjustment but it is very similar
          to the speed decrease. The automatic voltage response is also very much
          faster than the governor because it is electronic rather than mechanical.
          The load voltage is also a little lower than the unloaded generator voltage
          and the difference is called the voltage regulation.

          When the welder lifts his rod, the engine speeds up slightly and the
          voltage increases. This results in a SURGE or SWELL. The engine speed and
          the generator voltage each jump a little and the governor and the voltage
          regulator respond to correct the unbalance between setpoint and actual
          values. Again the speed of the engine can be heard but the response of the
          voltage regulator cannot be seen or heard.

          Most engine driven generators respond quickly to load changes because their
          momentum is low. Wind generators have a lot of momentum so they respond much
          slower than engine driven generators. Thus the SURGES and SAGS take much
          longer to correct. Any grid must have some quick responding generators if
          many slow responding generators (wind mills) are on line or severe

          Another problem comes up when the throttles are trying to increase the power
          level to compensate for a load increase when the load decreases suddenly.
          Now the machine is trying to speed up at the same time the load is dropping.
          The governors need SUPPLEMENTARY CONTROL under this circumstance. The
          welding machine is not a good enough example to show how this supplementary
          control is applied but you can see that the governors and voltage requlators
          could become confused unless they had some invisible and reliable help.


          I trust this will help you understand SOME of the issues with controlling
          power generation and some of the unseen cost of operating a grid.

          The hreg may not be interested in a lot of this kind of talk so I request
          you let me know if you would like to discuss this further:
          C_C_Foster@....


          <html><div><FONT face="Lucida Handwriting, Cursive">Claude
          Foster</FONT></div></html>



          >From: "David Power" <dpower@...>
          >Reply-To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
          >To: <hreg@yahoogroups.com>
          >Subject: Re: [hreg] Fwd: Study gives technical go-ahead to 10% wind
          penetration in New York state
          >Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 12:53:39 -0600
          >
          >It's sad indeed.
          >How about the comparison between a regular power plant and a wind farm
          as
          >far as land usage. The don't seem to mention that you can still actually
          use
          >the land the wind farm occupies, the cows and corn don't seem to mind a
          bit.
          >I also didn't realize that Germany was having grid stabilization
          problems
          >due to the amount of wind production. We were there last fall and there
          were
          >wind generators everywhere showing very fancy paint jobs to blend them
          into
          >the surrounding terrain. I never did notice a glitch or blackout. We did
          see
          >some amazing 3 Meg test machines.
          >
          >David
          >
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: Andrew McCalla
          > To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 12:25 PM
          > Subject: RE: [hreg] Fwd: Study gives technical go-ahead to 10% wind
          >penetration in New York state
          >
          >
          > Well, of all the technologies reviewed in that document, Clean Coal
          is the
          >only one without a "Costs and Challenges" overview, so that
          must be the best
          >one.
          >
          >
          >
          > Andrew H. McCalla
          >
          > Meridian Energy Systems
          >
          > 2300 S. Lamar, Ste. 107
          >
          > Austin, TX 78704
          >
          >
          >
          > Voice: (512) 448-0055
          >
          > Fax: (512) 448-0045
          >
          > www.meridiansolar.com
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >----------------------------------------------------------------------------
          >--
          >
          > From: David Power [mailto:dpower@...]
          > Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 12:00 PM
          > To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: Fw: [hreg] Fwd: Study gives technical go-ahead to 10% wind
          >penetration in New York state
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > That's refreshing, I'm attaching a PDF that is being handed around
          the Leg
          >in Austin right now authored by the Association of Electric Companies of
          >Texas . Its not very flattering to renewables. If the attachment doesn't
          go
          >through you can grab it off of their web site. http://tinyurl.com/6kks3.
          >
          >
          >
          > David
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          >
          > From: Tom Gray
          >
          > To: tomgray@...
          >
          > Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 12:37 AM
          >
          > Subject: [hreg] Fwd: Study gives technical go-ahead to 10% wind
          >penetration in New York state
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > >Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2005 14:31:50 -0500
          > >From: "Christine Real de Azua"
          <Christine@...>
          > >To: "Christine Real de Azua"
          <Christine@...>
          > >Subject: Study gives technical go-ahead to 10% wind penetration
          in New
          > > York state
          > >
          > >Dear energy editor,
          > >
          > >The New York State Energy Research and Development Authority
          (NYSERDA)
          >has
          > >released the final draft of a technical study on integrating
          wind
          >energy
          > >into the New York grid, which concludes that a 10% penetration
          level of
          > >wind can be accommodated without major changes in the planning,
          > >operations, or reliability of the state's bulk power system.
          > >
          > >"This technical analysis lays to rest any concerns about
          integrating
          > >substantial amounts of wind energy into the New York grid, and
          finds
          >that
          > >more wind power will in some cases improve reliability,"
          said American
          > >Wind Energy Association (AWEA) Acting Policy Director Michael
          Jacobs.
          >"The
          > >technical findings will also be very useful to other regions
          that are
          > >adding wind to their systems, even with regional
          differences."
          > >
          > >In particular, the study found that:
          > >
          > >* The incremental increase of 10% wind power can be
          accommodated
          >by
          > >existing processes and resource in NY state, whether this is in
          the
          > >minutes, hours, days, or years management time frames;
          > >
          > >* Even without forecasts, wind energy displaces
          conventional
          > >generation, reduces system operating costs, and reduces
          emissions;
          > >
          > >* No change to spinning reserve requirements would be
          needed;
          > >
          > >* State-of-the art wind turbines improve post-fault
          response of
          >the
          > >interconnected power grid.
          > >
          > >
          > >The study focuses on a wind generation scenario of 3,300 MW,
          >corresponding
          > >to approximately 10% of New York State's 2008 projected peak
          load. The
          > >state's Renewables Portfolio Standard is expected to result in
          about
          >the
          > >estimated 3,700 megawatts (MW) of new renewable generation by
          2013.
          >This
          > >final draft builds on a preliminary assessment released in
          early 2004,
          > >which also indicated that large-scale wind generation should
          not cause
          > >significant adverse impacts.
          > >
          > >AWEA will file technical comments on certain sections of the
          study.
          > >
          > >NYSERDA requested the study from GE Energy Consulting because
          of this
          > >consulting company's widely recognized expertise on grid
          integration
          > >issues for all technologies. Albany-based AWS Truewind, a
          significant
          > >support contractor, supplied wind resource, wind plant
          production and
          > >forecasting data to GE.
          > >
          > >The study is available on NYSERDA's web site at
          > >http://www.nyserda.org/rps/default.asp.
          > >
          > >Please contact Christine Real de Azua at (202) 383-2508 for
          additional
          > >information and industry contacts.
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >Christine Real de Azua
          > >Assistant Director of Communications
          > >American Wind Energy Association
          > >Direct phone: (202) 383-2508
          > >Fax: (202) 383-2505
          > >Email: Christine@...
          > >Web: www.awea.org
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
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