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Re: [hreg] I'm mad as hell

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  • chasmauch@aol.com
    Our tax code is absurd in many respects. Like why do we still subsidize large families? You should get a deduction for one child or maybe two, nothing for the
    Message 1 of 30 , Feb 6, 2004
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      Our tax code is absurd in many respects. Like why do we still subsidize large families? You should get a deduction for one child or maybe two, nothing for the 3rd, and start getting penalties for any over that number.

      But it is the hidden stuff that bugs me. For instance WalMart is now the biggest employer in the country - I think it has about a million employees. The Walton heirs are all multibillionaires, but still squeeze every dime they can out of their employees by paying rock bottom wages (see "Nickel and Dimed" by Barbara Ehrenrich).

      But in fact those low wages are subsidized by the taxpayers. When the underpaid folks with no health care or other benefits get sick, what do they do? Right - they go where all the other poor people go - to an emergency room to get routine care in the most expensive and inefficient manner possible. They also get food stamps and other forms of poverty assistance. Why do we subsidize the Waltons? Or for that matter, all the other places that give low pay and no benefits - Target, Home Depot, etc, etc, etc. We think they provide us with things at low cost but in fact we are paying much more than is reflected in those blue light specials and other "low, low prices." I think some of those costs should be charged back to the employers.

      Oops - guess my populist blood is acting up again. I will probably get a lot of lectures explaining how "free markets" work. Yeah, right.

      Charlie
    • Chris Smith
      Um...... Ontario has 30% of the population and contributes 50% of the money. Rape isn t exactly an accurate term. Support may be more apt. Chris Smith
      Message 2 of 30 , Feb 6, 2004
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        Um...... Ontario has 30% of the population and contributes 50% of the
        money.
        "Rape" isn't exactly an accurate term. "Support" may be more apt.

        Chris Smith
        (416)495-3969
        chris.smith@...






        Kim & Garth Travis <gartht@...>
        02/06/2004 11:51 AM
        Please respond to hreg


        To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
        cc:
        Subject: Re: [hreg] I'm mad as hell


        Exactly, and that allowed them to rape the western provinces.
        Bright Blessings,
        Kim

        At 11:14 AM 2/6/2004 -0500, you wrote:
        >Ontario + Quebec = 55% of the country's population.
        >
        >Chris Smith
        >(416)495-3969
        >chris.smith@...
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >Kim & Garth Travis <gartht@...>
        >02/06/2004 11:13 AM
        >Please respond to hreg
        >
        >
        > To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
        > cc:
        > Subject: Re: [hreg] I'm mad as hell
        >
        >
        >Excuse me, but the one man one vote system has its flaws. I personally
        >love the electoral college and wish Canada had one. For too long, the
        >interests of Ontario and Quebec have ruled the country.
        >Bright Blessings,
        >Kim
        >
        >At 09:50 AM 2/6/2004 -0600, you wrote:
        > >Bush was elected because of the archaic method of voting in the US. The
        > >Electoral College system is seldom a reflection of the true will of the
        > >people. This is similar to the election model the Bush regime is
        >demanding
        > >in Iraq. 'Regional Caucuses are a better method of manipulating the
        votes
        > >than the tried and true 'one-man-one-vote' system that the Iraqi
        majority
        > >leaders want. (No offense ladies, but the women cannot vote there)
        > >The Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Husseini al-Sistani has successfully stood
        up
        >to
        > >the Pentagon and demanded fair elections. For his trouble, he has been
        on
        > >the recieving end of a 3rd unsuccessful assination attempt.
        > >Jim Duncan
        > >********
        > >There is one thing stronger than all the armies in the world,
        > >and that is an idea whose time has come.
        > >Victor Hugo
        > >
        > >----- Original Message -----
        > >From: "Ooi, Han" <Han.Ooi@...>
        > >
        > > > I heard George Bush got elected because the people on this board
        voted
        >for
        > >Ralph Nader :-)
        > > >
        > > > Han
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >Yahoo! Groups Links
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
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      • Kim & Garth Travis
        Exactly, and that allowed them to rape the western provinces. Bright Blessings, Kim
        Message 3 of 30 , Feb 6, 2004
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          Exactly, and that allowed them to rape the western provinces.
          Bright Blessings,
          Kim

          At 11:14 AM 2/6/2004 -0500, you wrote:
          >Ontario + Quebec = 55% of the country's population.
          >
          >Chris Smith
          >(416)495-3969
          >chris.smith@...
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >Kim & Garth Travis <gartht@...>
          >02/06/2004 11:13 AM
          >Please respond to hreg
          >
          >
          > To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
          > cc:
          > Subject: Re: [hreg] I'm mad as hell
          >
          >
          >Excuse me, but the one man one vote system has its flaws. I personally
          >love the electoral college and wish Canada had one. For too long, the
          >interests of Ontario and Quebec have ruled the country.
          >Bright Blessings,
          >Kim
          >
          >At 09:50 AM 2/6/2004 -0600, you wrote:
          > >Bush was elected because of the archaic method of voting in the US. The
          > >Electoral College system is seldom a reflection of the true will of the
          > >people. This is similar to the election model the Bush regime is
          >demanding
          > >in Iraq. 'Regional Caucuses are a better method of manipulating the votes
          > >than the tried and true 'one-man-one-vote' system that the Iraqi majority
          > >leaders want. (No offense ladies, but the women cannot vote there)
          > >The Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Husseini al-Sistani has successfully stood up
          >to
          > >the Pentagon and demanded fair elections. For his trouble, he has been on
          > >the recieving end of a 3rd unsuccessful assination attempt.
          > >Jim Duncan
          > >********
          > >There is one thing stronger than all the armies in the world,
          > >and that is an idea whose time has come.
          > >Victor Hugo
          > >
          > >----- Original Message -----
          > >From: "Ooi, Han" <Han.Ooi@...>
          > >
          > > > I heard George Bush got elected because the people on this board voted
          >for
          > >Ralph Nader :-)
          > > >
          > > > Han
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >Yahoo! Groups Links
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          >Yahoo! Groups Links
          >To visit your group on the web, go to:
          >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hreg/
          >
          >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          >hreg-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
          >
          >
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          >
          >Yahoo! Groups Links
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          >
          >
          >
        • BASHIR A SYED
          But in reality he was installed as President by the Supreme Court. ... From: Ooi, Han To: hreg@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 9:37 AM Subject:
          Message 4 of 30 , Feb 6, 2004
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            But in reality he was installed as President by the Supreme Court.
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Ooi, Han
            Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 9:37 AM
            Subject: RE: [hreg] I'm mad as hell

            Aw, com'on...I am just clowning with you guys. 

            Of course if you all had voted for Nader, it wouldn't have made a difference because George won Texas by a large margin.

            Me personally, I am very optimistic that the day renewables will arrive is sooner than we think...and it will be without much government intervention.

            Anyone check on gas and oil prices lately?  All have been going up.  Oil is up because the booming economies of China and India are sucking in increasing amount of oil and also because of political instability in the oil producing countries.  Gas is up because restriction on drilling.

            Soon, the price will be high enough to drive alternative technologies.  The Saudis wanted to keep oil in the $20 to $29 range because that's the price where they max their profit without triggering the growth of alternative tech and energy.  But the new demand and instability is tipping the price out of that ideal range.

            So the day, is coming, and will be upon us soon.

            Han

            -----Original Message-----
            From: HARRISON, HEATHER L. (JSC-ZR) (MEI)
            [mailto:heather.l.harrison1@...]
            Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 9:27 AM
            To: 'hreg@yahoogroups.com'
            Subject: RE: [hreg] I'm mad as hell


            That's incorrect.  Gore actually won the popular vote, even with Nader
            taking a percentage.  The vote that counts is the electoral college vote,
            none of whom voted for Nader.

            -----Original Message-----
            From: Ooi, Han [mailto:Han.Ooi@...]
            Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 9:22 AM
            To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [hreg] I'm mad as hell


            I heard George Bush got elected because the people on this board voted for
            Ralph Nader  :-)

            Han

            -----Original Message-----
            From: Amanda Tullos [mailto:atullos@...]
            Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2004 9:13 PM
            To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [hreg] I'm mad as hell


            I heard Adolph Hitler got elected because only 20% of the German population
            showed up to vote.

            Amanda Tullos
            atullos@... <mailto:atullos@...>



            -----Original Message-----
            From: Jim & Janet [mailto:jhd1@...]
            Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2004 7:19 PM
            To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [hreg] I'm mad as hell


            I have become very bold in public about asking total strangers if they are
            registered to vote. At the checkout, elevators, street corner, anywhere. I
            don't do any politicing, just letting people know that it's very important.
            Jim

            There is one thing stronger than all the armies in the world,
            and that is an idea whose time has come.
            Victor Hugo

            ----- Original Message -----
            Subject: [hreg] I'm mad as hell


            > I just got through figuring my taxes, including $7500 of deductions
            > for mortgage interest & property taxes.
            >
            > I've been unemployed for 7 months and have to pay taxes on my
            > Unemployment Compensation.
            >
            > If I did not have to pay tax on the UnComp, I would get a refund of
            > over $1000 which would help me survive until I get a job.
            >
            > Including the unemployment results in a refund barely over $100,
            > which won't help nearly as much.
            >
            > ....and that's after 7 months of no paychecks.
            >
            > So, when does the revolution start?
            >
            > Randy Scott
            > "ready to load up my 2nd Amendment & go hunting yellow-bellied neo-
            > cons"
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >





            Yahoo! Groups Links





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          • Michael Christie
            Chris, There is no proof that the Nazi s had anything to do with the burning of the Reichstag. The arsonist was a mentally disturbed Dutch man. His name
            Message 5 of 30 , Feb 6, 2004
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              Chris,

              There is no proof that the Nazi's had anything to do with the burning of the
              Reichstag. The arsonist was a mentally disturbed Dutch man. His name escapes
              me at the moment, but most any history book about Hitler will have the
              information. He was caught inside the building with fire accelerants. It
              does appear to be something that the Nazi's would do, but the facts seem to
              be that they just didn't think of it. Oh, by the way, it was his election to
              the Reichstag that had the low voter turnout, and it is true that Hindenburg
              promoted him to Chancellor.

              Yes, a little off topic, but that's OK with me. Oh, by the way, I have voted
              in more elections in Harris County in the last fifteen years than 99.999% of
              registered voters and I am PROUD of the fact! Haven't missed a single one,
              including primaries.

              Jim & Janet, have you ever considered becoming voter registrars? That way
              you can do more than ask people to register to vote, you can sign them up on
              the spot. Keep up the good work, and I hope more people on this site will
              follow your example.

              Michael Christie

              -----Original Message-----
              From: Chris Smith [mailto:chris.smith@...]
              Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 6:08 AM
              To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: RE: [hreg] I'm mad as hell


              Hitler never received a majority government. He was leader of the
              opposition and created such a stir in Parliament that the reigning
              government (Labour party?) - as a bluff - offered control to them,
              assuming that they were political neophytes and would crack under the
              pressure of running the country.
              Their first order of business, though, was to burn the parliament
              buildings down, thus rendering the new opposition (the former government)
              helpless to argue states of the nation.
              The Nazi headquarters then became the head off ice of the government.

              A little off topic, I know, but still relevant in this regard as it shows
              that small groups of people can control the majority's lives.

              Chris Smith
              (416)495-3969
              chris.smith@...






              "Amanda Tullos" <atullos@...>
              02/05/2004 10:12 PM
              Please respond to hreg


              To: <hreg@yahoogroups.com>
              cc:
              Subject: RE: [hreg] I'm mad as hell


              I heard Adolph Hitler got elected because only 20% of the German
              population
              showed up to vote.

              Amanda Tullos
              atullos@... <mailto:atullos@...>



              -----Original Message-----
              From: Jim & Janet [mailto:jhd1@...]
              Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2004 7:19 PM
              To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [hreg] I'm mad as hell


              I have become very bold in public about asking total strangers if they are
              registered to vote. At the checkout, elevators, street corner, anywhere. I
              don't do any politicing, just letting people know that it's very
              important.
              Jim

              There is one thing stronger than all the armies in the world,
              and that is an idea whose time has come.
              Victor Hugo

              ----- Original Message -----
              Subject: [hreg] I'm mad as hell


              > I just got through figuring my taxes, including $7500 of deductions
              > for mortgage interest & property taxes.
              >
              > I've been unemployed for 7 months and have to pay taxes on my
              > Unemployment Compensation.
              >
              > If I did not have to pay tax on the UnComp, I would get a refund of
              > over $1000 which would help me survive until I get a job.
              >
              > Including the unemployment results in a refund barely over $100,
              > which won't help nearly as much.
              >
              > ....and that's after 7 months of no paychecks.
              >
              > So, when does the revolution start?
              >
              > Randy Scott
              > "ready to load up my 2nd Amendment & go hunting yellow-bellied neo-
              > cons"
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >





              Yahoo! Groups Links





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            • Kim & Garth Travis
              Not when they take raw materials at less than market and then sell finished stuff at premium. If it is support then why is Alberta oil cheaper in Ontario,
              Message 6 of 30 , Feb 6, 2004
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                Not when they take raw materials at less than market and then sell finished
                stuff at premium. If it is support then why is Alberta oil cheaper in
                Ontario, than at home? There is a reason for the t-shirts that read: "let
                them easter "B's" freeze in the dark."
                Bright Blessings,
                Kim

                At 11:50 AM 2/6/2004 -0500, you wrote:
                >Um...... Ontario has 30% of the population and contributes 50% of the
                >money.
                >"Rape" isn't exactly an accurate term. "Support" may be more apt.
                >
                >Chris Smith
                >(416)495-3969
                >chris.smith@...
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >Kim & Garth Travis <gartht@...>
                >02/06/2004 11:51 AM
                >Please respond to hreg
                >
                >
                > To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                > cc:
                > Subject: Re: [hreg] I'm mad as hell
                >
                >
                >Exactly, and that allowed them to rape the western provinces.
                >Bright Blessings,
                >Kim
                >
                >At 11:14 AM 2/6/2004 -0500, you wrote:
                > >Ontario + Quebec = 55% of the country's population.
                > >
                > >Chris Smith
                > >(416)495-3969
                > >chris.smith@...
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >Kim & Garth Travis <gartht@...>
                > >02/06/2004 11:13 AM
                > >Please respond to hreg
                > >
                > >
                > > To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                > > cc:
                > > Subject: Re: [hreg] I'm mad as hell
                > >
                > >
                > >Excuse me, but the one man one vote system has its flaws. I personally
                > >love the electoral college and wish Canada had one. For too long, the
                > >interests of Ontario and Quebec have ruled the country.
                > >Bright Blessings,
                > >Kim
                > >
                > >At 09:50 AM 2/6/2004 -0600, you wrote:
                > > >Bush was elected because of the archaic method of voting in the US. The
                > > >Electoral College system is seldom a reflection of the true will of the
                > > >people. This is similar to the election model the Bush regime is
                > >demanding
                > > >in Iraq. 'Regional Caucuses are a better method of manipulating the
                >votes
                > > >than the tried and true 'one-man-one-vote' system that the Iraqi
                >majority
                > > >leaders want. (No offense ladies, but the women cannot vote there)
                > > >The Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Husseini al-Sistani has successfully stood
                >up
                > >to
                > > >the Pentagon and demanded fair elections. For his trouble, he has been
                >on
                > > >the recieving end of a 3rd unsuccessful assination attempt.
                > > >Jim Duncan
                > > >********
                > > >There is one thing stronger than all the armies in the world,
                > > >and that is an idea whose time has come.
                > > >Victor Hugo
                > > >
                > > >----- Original Message -----
                > > >From: "Ooi, Han" <Han.Ooi@...>
                > > >
                > > > > I heard George Bush got elected because the people on this board
                >voted
                > >for
                > > >Ralph Nader :-)
                > > > >
                > > > > Han
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > >
                > >
                > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                > >To visit your group on the web, go to:
                > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hreg/
                > >
                > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > >hreg-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                > >
                > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
                >
                >Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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                >ADVERTISEMENT
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                >
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                >
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                >
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                >
              • Paul Archer
                Actually, the best voting system is one-man(person)-one-vote--per-candidate. In other words, if there are three people on the ballot, and you like two of
                Message 7 of 30 , Feb 6, 2004
                • 0 Attachment
                  Actually, the best voting system is one-man(person)-one-vote--per-candidate.
                  In other words, if there are three people on the ballot, and you like two of
                  them, you vote for them both. The advantage is that you can support a
                  third-party candidate without "throwing away your vote." Unfortunately, it's
                  kind of a hard sell, since it doesn't seem like it would work (until you
                  think about it)--and we all know how hard it is to get the average Joe to
                  think...

                  Paul

                  PS. The other popular alternative system is ranking candidates; it has
                  problems when you get into edge cases. It's still better than one-person-
                  one-vote.

                  10:13am, Kim & Garth Travis wrote:

                  > Excuse me, but the one man one vote system has its flaws. I personally
                  > love the electoral college and wish Canada had one. For too long, the
                  > interests of Ontario and Quebec have ruled the country.
                  > Bright Blessings,
                  > Kim
                  >
                  > At 09:50 AM 2/6/2004 -0600, you wrote:
                  > >Bush was elected because of the archaic method of voting in the US. The
                  > >Electoral College system is seldom a reflection of the true will of the
                  > >people. This is similar to the election model the Bush regime is demanding
                  > >in Iraq. 'Regional Caucuses are a better method of manipulating the votes
                  > >than the tried and true 'one-man-one-vote' system that the Iraqi majority
                  > >leaders want. (No offense ladies, but the women cannot vote there)
                  > >The Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Husseini al-Sistani has successfully stood up to
                  > >the Pentagon and demanded fair elections. For his trouble, he has been on
                  > >the recieving end of a 3rd unsuccessful assination attempt.
                  > >Jim Duncan
                  > >********
                  > >There is one thing stronger than all the armies in the world,
                  > >and that is an idea whose time has come.
                  > >Victor Hugo
                  > >
                  > >----- Original Message -----
                  > >From: "Ooi, Han" <Han.Ooi@...>
                  > >
                  > > > I heard George Bush got elected because the people on this board voted for
                  > >Ralph Nader :-)
                  > > >
                  > > > Han
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >

                  -------------------------------------------------
                  "Welcome to downtown Coolsville--population: us."
                  -------------------------------------------------
                • Amanda Tullos
                  I wish we could vote for None of the above, sometimes I don t like any of the candidates. On a separate note, I bought a Honda Civic Hybrid this week and I
                  Message 8 of 30 , Feb 6, 2004
                  • 0 Attachment
                    I wish we could vote for "None of the above," sometimes I don't like any of
                    the candidates.

                    On a separate note, I bought a Honda Civic Hybrid this week and I can't wait
                    for my $2,000.00 tax deduction at the end of the year. (Not to mention all
                    the gas money I'll save)

                    P.S. Bush lied.

                    Amanda Tullos
                    h 713.779.2247
                    c 281.384.3756
                    atullos@... <mailto:atullos@...>



                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Paul Archer [mailto:tigger@...]
                    Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 5:47 PM
                    To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [hreg] I'm mad as hell


                    Actually, the best voting system is
                    one-man(person)-one-vote--per-candidate.
                    In other words, if there are three people on the ballot, and you like two of
                    them, you vote for them both. The advantage is that you can support a
                    third-party candidate without "throwing away your vote." Unfortunately, it's
                    kind of a hard sell, since it doesn't seem like it would work (until you
                    think about it)--and we all know how hard it is to get the average Joe to
                    think...

                    Paul

                    PS. The other popular alternative system is ranking candidates; it has
                    problems when you get into edge cases. It's still better than one-person-
                    one-vote.

                    10:13am, Kim & Garth Travis wrote:

                    > Excuse me, but the one man one vote system has its flaws. I personally
                    > love the electoral college and wish Canada had one. For too long, the
                    > interests of Ontario and Quebec have ruled the country.
                    > Bright Blessings,
                    > Kim
                    >
                    > At 09:50 AM 2/6/2004 -0600, you wrote:
                    > >Bush was elected because of the archaic method of voting in the US. The
                    > >Electoral College system is seldom a reflection of the true will of the
                    > >people. This is similar to the election model the Bush regime is
                    demanding
                    > >in Iraq. 'Regional Caucuses are a better method of manipulating the votes
                    > >than the tried and true 'one-man-one-vote' system that the Iraqi majority
                    > >leaders want. (No offense ladies, but the women cannot vote there)
                    > >The Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Husseini al-Sistani has successfully stood up
                    to
                    > >the Pentagon and demanded fair elections. For his trouble, he has been on
                    > >the recieving end of a 3rd unsuccessful assination attempt.
                    > >Jim Duncan
                    > >********
                    > >There is one thing stronger than all the armies in the world,
                    > >and that is an idea whose time has come.
                    > >Victor Hugo
                    > >
                    > >----- Original Message -----
                    > >From: "Ooi, Han" <Han.Ooi@...>
                    > >
                    > > > I heard George Bush got elected because the people on this board voted
                    for
                    > >Ralph Nader :-)
                    > > >
                    > > > Han
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >

                    -------------------------------------------------
                    "Welcome to downtown Coolsville--population: us."
                    -------------------------------------------------



                    Yahoo! Groups Links





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                  • Steven M. Stelzer
                    A few years ago on the way to Disney world, I saw a great many solar water heater panels on roofs around Orlando, and a few solar panels. Florida actually
                    Message 9 of 30 , Feb 6, 2004
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                      A few years ago on the way to Disney world, I saw a great many solar water
                      heater panels on roofs around Orlando, and a few solar panels. Florida
                      actually subsidizes renewable energy, and their energy code is very
                      advanced. The Florida Solar Energy Center of UCF is a frontrunner in the
                      study of hot/humid climate issues, and may be a good resource for your
                      inquiries. I've found Florida renewable equipment vendors to have a good
                      web presence, which you might want to investigate.

                      For what it's worth,

                      Steve Stelzer

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Steven Shepard [mailto:sbtdesigns@...]
                      Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 8:36 AM
                      To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [hreg] I'm mad as hell


                      On Tuesday, February 3rd there was a long radio article on National Public
                      Radio concerning the economy and the so called "economic recovery". In
                      this article the columnist indicated that the rural South is at this time
                      the poorest and most economically depressed area of North America. Now more
                      poor than rural Appalachia and/or native American reservations.

                      My recent trip to Pace, Florida would verify this claim. I made a trip last
                      month in order to recon the possibility of opening another office for my
                      company to serve the panhandle of Florida with renewable energy products.
                      Much to my surprise I found out that this area is much more depressed than
                      South Texas, unemployment is very high and the top wage earners in this area
                      only make around $10.00 per hour. It did not look good and Florida is one
                      of the top three states for renewable energy. While I visited the area I
                      think I saw one solar panel and it was a solar thermal collector.

                      Like his father, George W. seems to have very little concept of what is
                      required to make our economy operate in a manner that provides jobs and
                      living wage to anyone other than Wall Street or his rich friends.

                      God help us.

                      Look for changes to our web site January 2004.
                      Our new address is:
                      SBT Designs
                      25581 IH-10 West
                      San Antonio, Texas 78257
                      210-698-7109
                      FAX: 210-698-7147
                      www.sbtdesigns.com
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "Randy Scott" <rscott77070@...>
                      To: <hreg@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2004 5:54 PM
                      Subject: [hreg] I'm mad as hell


                      > I just got through figuring my taxes, including $7500 of deductions
                      > for mortgage interest & property taxes.
                      >
                      > I've been unemployed for 7 months and have to pay taxes on my
                      > Unemployment Compensation.
                      >
                      > If I did not have to pay tax on the UnComp, I would get a refund of
                      > over $1000 which would help me survive until I get a job.
                      >
                      > Including the unemployment results in a refund barely over $100,
                      > which won't help nearly as much.
                      >
                      > ....and that's after 7 months of no paychecks.
                      >
                      > So, when does the revolution start?
                      >
                      > Randy Scott
                      > "ready to load up my 2nd Amendment & go hunting yellow-bellied neo-
                      > cons"
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >




                      Yahoo! Groups Links
                    • David M. Eggleston
                      For a good introduction to improved voting systems used in some places even in the U.S., and a thorough discussion of how our current election system is
                      Message 10 of 30 , Feb 7, 2004
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                        For a good introduction to improved voting systems used in some places even in the
                        U.S., and a thorough discussion of how our current election system is faulty, check
                        out this book:

                        Fixing Elections: The Failure of America's Winner Take All System, by Steven Hill,
                        Routledge Press, 2002, ISBN 0-415-93193-2

                        David

                        David M. Eggleston
                        VelomobileUSA, LLC
                        Midland, TX
                        www.VelomobileUSA.com
                      • Randy Scott
                        Just exactly WHO are the people who make up the electoral college? Are they elected officials? Are they Senators? Can they be impeached? Randy Scott ... The
                        Message 11 of 30 , Feb 7, 2004
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Just exactly WHO are the people who make up the electoral college?
                          Are they elected officials?
                          Are they Senators?
                          Can they be impeached?

                          Randy Scott


                          --- In hreg@yahoogroups.com, "Jim & Janet" <jhd1@e...> wrote:
                          > Bush was elected because of the archaic method of voting in the US.
                          The
                          > Electoral College system is seldom a reflection of the true will of
                          the
                          > people. This is similar to the election model the Bush regime is
                          demanding
                          > in Iraq. 'Regional Caucuses are a better method of manipulating the
                          votes
                          > than the tried and true 'one-man-one-vote' system that the Iraqi
                          majority
                          > leaders want. (No offense ladies, but the women cannot vote there)
                          > The Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Husseini al-Sistani has successfully
                          stood up to
                          > the Pentagon and demanded fair elections. For his trouble, he has
                          been on
                          > the recieving end of a 3rd unsuccessful assination attempt.
                          > Jim Duncan
                          > ********
                          > There is one thing stronger than all the armies in the world,
                          > and that is an idea whose time has come.
                          > Victor Hugo
                          >
                          > ----- Original Message -----
                          > From: "Ooi, Han" <Han.Ooi@N...>
                          >
                          > > I heard George Bush got elected because the people on this board
                          voted for
                          > Ralph Nader :-)
                          > >
                          > > Han
                        • Randy Scott
                          ... can t wait ... mention all ... Congratulations on that new car. I was seriously shopping around for one of them - before I lost my job. Randy
                          Message 12 of 30 , Feb 7, 2004
                          • 0 Attachment
                            --- In hreg@yahoogroups.com, "Amanda Tullos" <atullos@h...> wrote:
                            > >
                            > On a separate note, I bought a Honda Civic Hybrid this week and I
                            can't wait
                            > for my $2,000.00 tax deduction at the end of the year. (Not to
                            mention all
                            > the gas money I'll save)
                            > > Amanda Tullos
                            > h 713.779.2247
                            > c 281.384.3756
                            > atullos@h... <mailto:atullos@h...>

                            Congratulations on that new car. I was seriously shopping around for
                            one of them - before I lost my job.

                            Randy
                          • John Miggins
                            Congratulations on the hybrid Amanda, what made you choose the Honda over the Toyota? We are shopping for one and waiting for one that has a little more space
                            Message 13 of 30 , Feb 8, 2004
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Congratulations on the hybrid Amanda, what made you choose the Honda over
                              the Toyota?

                              We are shopping for one and waiting for one that has a little more space
                              like a CRV, but I was curious as to why you choose the

                              Honda over the Toyota.

                              thanks and good choice.
                              I am glad the $2000 deductions is still available.


                              John Miggins
                              Harvest Solar and Wind Power
                              1571 East 22 Place
                              Tulsa, OK 74114
                              918-743-2299 phone/fax
                              918-809-7223 cell

                              http://www.harvest-energy.com
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: "Amanda Tullos" <atullos@...>
                              To: <hreg@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 6:12 PM
                              Subject: RE: [hreg] I'm mad as hell


                              > I wish we could vote for "None of the above," sometimes I don't like any
                              of
                              > the candidates.
                              >
                              > On a separate note, I bought a Honda Civic Hybrid this week and I can't
                              wait
                              > for my $2,000.00 tax deduction at the end of the year. (Not to mention all
                              > the gas money I'll save)
                              >
                              > P.S. Bush lied.
                              >
                              > Amanda Tullos
                              > h 713.779.2247
                              > c 281.384.3756
                              > atullos@... <mailto:atullos@...>
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > -----Original Message-----
                              > From: Paul Archer [mailto:tigger@...]
                              > Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 5:47 PM
                              > To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                              > Subject: Re: [hreg] I'm mad as hell
                              >
                              >
                              > Actually, the best voting system is
                              > one-man(person)-one-vote--per-candidate.
                              > In other words, if there are three people on the ballot, and you like two
                              of
                              > them, you vote for them both. The advantage is that you can support a
                              > third-party candidate without "throwing away your vote." Unfortunately,
                              it's
                              > kind of a hard sell, since it doesn't seem like it would work (until you
                              > think about it)--and we all know how hard it is to get the average Joe to
                              > think...
                              >
                              > Paul
                              >
                              > PS. The other popular alternative system is ranking candidates; it has
                              > problems when you get into edge cases. It's still better than one-person-
                              > one-vote.
                              >
                              > 10:13am, Kim & Garth Travis wrote:
                              >
                              > > Excuse me, but the one man one vote system has its flaws. I personally
                              > > love the electoral college and wish Canada had one. For too long, the
                              > > interests of Ontario and Quebec have ruled the country.
                              > > Bright Blessings,
                              > > Kim
                              > >
                              > > At 09:50 AM 2/6/2004 -0600, you wrote:
                              > > >Bush was elected because of the archaic method of voting in the US. The
                              > > >Electoral College system is seldom a reflection of the true will of the
                              > > >people. This is similar to the election model the Bush regime is
                              > demanding
                              > > >in Iraq. 'Regional Caucuses are a better method of manipulating the
                              votes
                              > > >than the tried and true 'one-man-one-vote' system that the Iraqi
                              majority
                              > > >leaders want. (No offense ladies, but the women cannot vote there)
                              > > >The Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Husseini al-Sistani has successfully stood
                              up
                              > to
                              > > >the Pentagon and demanded fair elections. For his trouble, he has been
                              on
                              > > >the recieving end of a 3rd unsuccessful assination attempt.
                              > > >Jim Duncan
                              > > >********
                              > > >There is one thing stronger than all the armies in the world,
                              > > >and that is an idea whose time has come.
                              > > >Victor Hugo
                              > > >
                              > > >----- Original Message -----
                              > > >From: "Ooi, Han" <Han.Ooi@...>
                              > > >
                              > > > > I heard George Bush got elected because the people on this board
                              voted
                              > for
                              > > >Ralph Nader :-)
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Han
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
                              > -------------------------------------------------
                              > "Welcome to downtown Coolsville--population: us."
                              > -------------------------------------------------
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
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                              > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
                              > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                            • Michael Christie
                              The electors are appointed by each party. Only the winning parties electors, in each state, will vote in the electoral college. They tend to be party regulars,
                              Message 14 of 30 , Feb 9, 2004
                              • 0 Attachment
                                The electors are appointed by each party. Only the winning parties electors,
                                in each state, will vote in the electoral college. They tend to be party
                                regulars, campaign contributors or people who have worked on elections, and
                                the like, but there is no real litmus test other than party loyalty. You
                                could become an elector yourself. Go talk to your party. They cannot be
                                impeached, and each electors vote is final, and cannot be appealed. The
                                elector is not legally bound to vote for the candidate that they have been
                                elected to vote for, and there have been defections in the past, but very
                                few.

                                The electoral college is, in my opinion, an archaic institute that was never
                                intended to be permanent and should be abolished. Unfortunately, it will
                                take a constitutional ammendment. This is an excellent subject to speak to
                                your congressman about.

                                Michael Christie

                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: Randy Scott [mailto:rscott77070@...]
                                Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2004 10:24 PM
                                To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: [hreg] Re: I'm mad as hell


                                Just exactly WHO are the people who make up the electoral college?
                                Are they elected officials?
                                Are they Senators?
                                Can they be impeached?

                                Randy Scott


                                --- In hreg@yahoogroups.com, "Jim & Janet" <jhd1@e...> wrote:
                                > Bush was elected because of the archaic method of voting in the US.
                                The
                                > Electoral College system is seldom a reflection of the true will of
                                the
                                > people. This is similar to the election model the Bush regime is
                                demanding
                                > in Iraq. 'Regional Caucuses are a better method of manipulating the
                                votes
                                > than the tried and true 'one-man-one-vote' system that the Iraqi
                                majority
                                > leaders want. (No offense ladies, but the women cannot vote there)
                                > The Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Husseini al-Sistani has successfully
                                stood up to
                                > the Pentagon and demanded fair elections. For his trouble, he has
                                been on
                                > the recieving end of a 3rd unsuccessful assination attempt.
                                > Jim Duncan
                                > ********
                                > There is one thing stronger than all the armies in the world,
                                > and that is an idea whose time has come.
                                > Victor Hugo
                                >
                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                > From: "Ooi, Han" <Han.Ooi@N...>
                                >
                                > > I heard George Bush got elected because the people on this board
                                voted for
                                > Ralph Nader :-)
                                > >
                                > > Han




                                Yahoo! Groups Links
                              • Amanda Tullos
                                I chose the Honda because of price and 3.9% financing. Also, my husband recommended we NOT buy the Toyota because it is the first year after a major redesign
                                Message 15 of 30 , Feb 9, 2004
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  I chose the Honda because of price and 3.9% financing. Also, my husband
                                  recommended we NOT buy the Toyota because it is the first year after a major
                                  "redesign" (which could mean unforeseen problems).

                                  I test drove several cars, including the Diesel turbo beetle and a 2001
                                  Toyota Prius. (I was hoping to possibly use bio-diesel from a local
                                  supplier, but I never finished the research)

                                  The new Prius is more expensive because it is "Car of the year" and there is
                                  also wait. So, I went to Gillman Honda-- they had 2 hybrids, a 2003 and a
                                  2004. I bought the 2004. I used the AAA website as a go-by to make sure I
                                  was getting a good deal- you can get fleet pricing if you are a member.

                                  Amanda Tullos
                                  h 713.779.2247
                                  c 281.384.3756
                                  atullos@... <mailto:atullos@...>



                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: John Miggins [mailto:jmiggins@...]
                                  Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2004 11:07 AM
                                  To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: Re: [hreg] I'm mad as hell


                                  Congratulations on the hybrid Amanda, what made you choose the Honda over
                                  the Toyota?

                                  We are shopping for one and waiting for one that has a little more space
                                  like a CRV, but I was curious as to why you choose the

                                  Honda over the Toyota.

                                  thanks and good choice.
                                  I am glad the $2000 deductions is still available.


                                  John Miggins
                                  Harvest Solar and Wind Power
                                  1571 East 22 Place
                                  Tulsa, OK 74114
                                  918-743-2299 phone/fax
                                  918-809-7223 cell

                                  http://www.harvest-energy.com
                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: "Amanda Tullos" <atullos@...>
                                  To: <hreg@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 6:12 PM
                                  Subject: RE: [hreg] I'm mad as hell


                                  > I wish we could vote for "None of the above," sometimes I don't like any
                                  of
                                  > the candidates.
                                  >
                                  > On a separate note, I bought a Honda Civic Hybrid this week and I can't
                                  wait
                                  > for my $2,000.00 tax deduction at the end of the year. (Not to mention all
                                  > the gas money I'll save)
                                  >
                                  > P.S. Bush lied.
                                  >
                                  > Amanda Tullos
                                  > h 713.779.2247
                                  > c 281.384.3756
                                  > atullos@... <mailto:atullos@...>
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > -----Original Message-----
                                  > From: Paul Archer [mailto:tigger@...]
                                  > Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 5:47 PM
                                  > To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Subject: Re: [hreg] I'm mad as hell
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Actually, the best voting system is
                                  > one-man(person)-one-vote--per-candidate.
                                  > In other words, if there are three people on the ballot, and you like two
                                  of
                                  > them, you vote for them both. The advantage is that you can support a
                                  > third-party candidate without "throwing away your vote." Unfortunately,
                                  it's
                                  > kind of a hard sell, since it doesn't seem like it would work (until you
                                  > think about it)--and we all know how hard it is to get the average Joe to
                                  > think...
                                  >
                                  > Paul
                                  >
                                  > PS. The other popular alternative system is ranking candidates; it has
                                  > problems when you get into edge cases. It's still better than one-person-
                                  > one-vote.
                                  >
                                  > 10:13am, Kim & Garth Travis wrote:
                                  >
                                  > > Excuse me, but the one man one vote system has its flaws. I personally
                                  > > love the electoral college and wish Canada had one. For too long, the
                                  > > interests of Ontario and Quebec have ruled the country.
                                  > > Bright Blessings,
                                  > > Kim
                                  > >
                                  > > At 09:50 AM 2/6/2004 -0600, you wrote:
                                  > > >Bush was elected because of the archaic method of voting in the US. The
                                  > > >Electoral College system is seldom a reflection of the true will of the
                                  > > >people. This is similar to the election model the Bush regime is
                                  > demanding
                                  > > >in Iraq. 'Regional Caucuses are a better method of manipulating the
                                  votes
                                  > > >than the tried and true 'one-man-one-vote' system that the Iraqi
                                  majority
                                  > > >leaders want. (No offense ladies, but the women cannot vote there)
                                  > > >The Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Husseini al-Sistani has successfully stood
                                  up
                                  > to
                                  > > >the Pentagon and demanded fair elections. For his trouble, he has been
                                  on
                                  > > >the recieving end of a 3rd unsuccessful assination attempt.
                                  > > >Jim Duncan
                                  > > >********
                                  > > >There is one thing stronger than all the armies in the world,
                                  > > >and that is an idea whose time has come.
                                  > > >Victor Hugo
                                  > > >
                                  > > >----- Original Message -----
                                  > > >From: "Ooi, Han" <Han.Ooi@...>
                                  > > >
                                  > > > > I heard George Bush got elected because the people on this board
                                  voted
                                  > for
                                  > > >Ralph Nader :-)
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Han
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > -------------------------------------------------
                                  > "Welcome to downtown Coolsville--population: us."
                                  > -------------------------------------------------
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
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                                  > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
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                                  > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
                                  > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
                                  > Version: 6.0.576 / Virus Database: 365 - Release Date: 1/30/2004
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >




                                  Yahoo! Groups Links





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