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Fw: [hreg] FW: solar lawnmowers

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  • Solarcraft@csi
    ... From: Kevin L. Conlin To: Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2000 5:45 PM Subject: Re: [hreg] FW: solar lawnmowers ... as
    Message 1 of 3 , Jun 7, 2000
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      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Kevin L. Conlin <kconlin@...>
      To: <hreg@egroups.com>
      Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2000 5:45 PM
      Subject: Re: [hreg] FW: solar lawnmowers


      >
      > Hi James,
      >
      > Your theory on the self discharge is correct, however the mechanism was a
      > little different. The actual reason, according to my battery expert, is
      as
      > follows.
      >
      > Before and during WW2 battery manufacturers made the battery cases out of
      a
      > hard rubber material called ebonite. After the Japanese took over the
      > rubber plantations of southeast asia and the Pacific islands, rubber came
      in
      > short supply. In order to stretch their limited supply, the battery
      > manufacturers started mixing small bits of flax and cotton in with the
      > ebonite to act as a filler and conserve the rubber. These impregnated
      > fibers were slightly conductive electrically. When a battery was left on
      > concrete, the change in temp from night to day, and the batteries' high
      > thermal mass would cause condensation under the battery, wicking up from
      the
      > concrete. The conductive fibers in the cells would cause a slight short
      > circuit between the cells in the battery, draining it. This was
      compounded
      > by the fact that the batteries were not built as well as today's
      batteries,
      > and they tended to self discharge faster anyway. The combination of self
      > discharge and short circuits between the cells made the battery go dead
      very
      > quickly. Thus, a battery stored for several weeks or months on a concrete
      > floor would be completely dead, and ruined because of the resulting
      > sulfation. After WW2, all the battery manufacturers converted to plastic
      > cases, and the problem went away, forever, however the myth hasn't.
      >
      > I have to attribute this information to Foster Faerman at Tideland Signal,
      > who knows more about lead acid batteries than anyone else I know. His
      > father used to own a small battery manufacturing plant, and he literally
      > grew up in the battery business. When I asked him about the myth many
      years
      > ago, he reeled off the explanation quickly and succinctly, and it makes
      > perfect sense to me. So there you have it, that's my explanation, but I
      > liked your deductive reasoning as well. I wonder if anyone else can add to
      > the unraveling of this myth.
      >
      > Best regards, Kevin PS How's the Solar Clubhouse coming?
      Will
      > it be ready in time for football season?
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: James Ferrill <jferrill@...>
      > To: <hreg@egroups.com>
      > Sent: Friday, June 02, 2000 9:04 PM
      > Subject: Re: [hreg] FW: solar lawnmowers
      >
      >
      > > Right. On the sci.chem.electrochem.battery newsgroup a number of months
      > ago,
      > > we had a big thread going on to hash out the myth. The best that anyone
      > came
      > > up with was back after the turn of the century, batteries were made of
      > wooden
      > > boxes lined with tar paper. If you set this on a concrete floor and the
      > > battery leaked a little (which was fairly common), a conductive path
      would
      > be
      > > set up that would drain the battery. Concrete reacts really well with
      > battery
      > > acid. I still know people who won't put a battery on the floor unless
      it's
      > > setting on a piece of wood because of that myth.
      > >
      > > James
      > >
      > >
      > > "Kevin L. Conlin" wrote:
      > >
      > > > The myth about batteries and concrete is that by leaving them directly
      > on
      > > > top of a concrete floor, the concrete "drains" the charge out of the
      > > > battery. This hasn't been true since WW2, but a lot of people still
      > swear
      > > > by it since their father or grandfather drilled it into their heads.
      > None
      > > > of them can ever explain why this will happen, since it normally rests
      > on
      > > > conductive metal in a car, but they will adamantly swear it's true.
      > > >
      > > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > > From: s askew <rsaskew@...>
      > > > To: <hreg@egroups.com>
      > > > Sent: Friday, June 02, 2000 10:49 AM
      > > > Subject: Re: [hreg] FW: solar lawnmowers
      > > >
      > > > > I am not sure what the myth about batteries and concrete is, but
      > > > > from my experience a battery that leaks at all will begin to eat
      > > > > the concrete. I now store batteries in a plastic tub and have
      > > > > added some baking soda at the bottom hoping to neutralize any
      > > > > acid that does leak.
      > >
      > >
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    • Solarcraft@csi
      ... From: Kevin L. Conlin To: Sent: Friday, June 02, 2000 7:15 PM Subject: Re: [hreg] FW: solar lawnmowers
      Message 2 of 3 , Jun 7, 2000
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        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Kevin L. Conlin <kconlin@...>
        To: <hreg@egroups.com>
        Sent: Friday, June 02, 2000 7:15 PM
        Subject: Re: [hreg] FW: solar lawnmowers


        >
        > The myth about batteries and concrete is that by leaving them directly on
        > top of a concrete floor, the concrete "drains" the charge out of the
        > battery. This hasn't been true since WW2, but a lot of people still swear
        > by it since their father or grandfather drilled it into their heads. None
        > of them can ever explain why this will happen, since it normally rests on
        > conductive metal in a car, but they will adamantly swear it's true.
        >
        >
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: s askew <rsaskew@...>
        > To: <hreg@egroups.com>
        > Sent: Friday, June 02, 2000 10:49 AM
        > Subject: Re: [hreg] FW: solar lawnmowers
        >
        >
        > > I am not sure what the myth about batteries and concrete is, but
        > > from my experience a battery that leaks at all will begin to eat
        > > the concrete. I now store batteries in a plastic tub and have
        > > added some baking soda at the bottom hoping to neutralize any
        > > acid that does leak.
        > >
        > > __________________________________________________
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        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
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