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Fw: [hreg] FW: solar lawnmowers

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  • Solarcraft@csi
    ... From: James Ferrill To: Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2000 10:11 PM Subject: Re: [hreg] FW: solar lawnmowers ... a ... as
    Message 1 of 3 , Jun 7, 2000
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      ----- Original Message -----
      From: James Ferrill <jferrill@...>
      To: <hreg@egroups.com>
      Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2000 10:11 PM
      Subject: Re: [hreg] FW: solar lawnmowers


      >
      > "Kevin L. Conlin" wrote:
      >
      > > Your theory on the self discharge is correct, however the mechanism was
      a
      > > little different. The actual reason, according to my battery expert, is
      as
      > > follows.
      >
      > That's a really good explaination. We ought to collect those into a book.
      One
      > guy in that newsgroup made up a bogus explaination that postulated that
      there
      > were concrete mites and acid mites that multiplied into battery-draining
      > colonies when batteries were put on concrete. It wasn't true, but the way
      he
      > told it was hilarious! :-)
      >
      > > Best regards, Kevin PS How's the Solar Clubhouse coming?
      Will it
      > > be ready in time for football season?
      >
      > Things have been going well. I start a new job Monday, so I'll be able to
      > continue buying solar toys :-) I finished the battery cabinet Tuesday, put
      it in
      > the shed, and vented it to the outside. It has one 24V string of 4 golf
      cart
      > batteries @ 220 AH installed and connected to the bus bar system. I'll
      probably
      > put in another set tomorrow if I can find enough good ones at Sams.
      > Unfortunately, they back-ordered my charge controller, so I'm going to get
      > another one so I can move the project along. It's supposed to be raining
      anyway
      > for a few days, so I'll have to wait to mount the panels.
      >
      > James
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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      >
      >
    • Solarcraft@csi
      ... From: Kevin L. Conlin To: Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2000 5:45 PM Subject: Re: [hreg] FW: solar lawnmowers ... as
      Message 2 of 3 , Jun 7, 2000
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        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Kevin L. Conlin <kconlin@...>
        To: <hreg@egroups.com>
        Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2000 5:45 PM
        Subject: Re: [hreg] FW: solar lawnmowers


        >
        > Hi James,
        >
        > Your theory on the self discharge is correct, however the mechanism was a
        > little different. The actual reason, according to my battery expert, is
        as
        > follows.
        >
        > Before and during WW2 battery manufacturers made the battery cases out of
        a
        > hard rubber material called ebonite. After the Japanese took over the
        > rubber plantations of southeast asia and the Pacific islands, rubber came
        in
        > short supply. In order to stretch their limited supply, the battery
        > manufacturers started mixing small bits of flax and cotton in with the
        > ebonite to act as a filler and conserve the rubber. These impregnated
        > fibers were slightly conductive electrically. When a battery was left on
        > concrete, the change in temp from night to day, and the batteries' high
        > thermal mass would cause condensation under the battery, wicking up from
        the
        > concrete. The conductive fibers in the cells would cause a slight short
        > circuit between the cells in the battery, draining it. This was
        compounded
        > by the fact that the batteries were not built as well as today's
        batteries,
        > and they tended to self discharge faster anyway. The combination of self
        > discharge and short circuits between the cells made the battery go dead
        very
        > quickly. Thus, a battery stored for several weeks or months on a concrete
        > floor would be completely dead, and ruined because of the resulting
        > sulfation. After WW2, all the battery manufacturers converted to plastic
        > cases, and the problem went away, forever, however the myth hasn't.
        >
        > I have to attribute this information to Foster Faerman at Tideland Signal,
        > who knows more about lead acid batteries than anyone else I know. His
        > father used to own a small battery manufacturing plant, and he literally
        > grew up in the battery business. When I asked him about the myth many
        years
        > ago, he reeled off the explanation quickly and succinctly, and it makes
        > perfect sense to me. So there you have it, that's my explanation, but I
        > liked your deductive reasoning as well. I wonder if anyone else can add to
        > the unraveling of this myth.
        >
        > Best regards, Kevin PS How's the Solar Clubhouse coming?
        Will
        > it be ready in time for football season?
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: James Ferrill <jferrill@...>
        > To: <hreg@egroups.com>
        > Sent: Friday, June 02, 2000 9:04 PM
        > Subject: Re: [hreg] FW: solar lawnmowers
        >
        >
        > > Right. On the sci.chem.electrochem.battery newsgroup a number of months
        > ago,
        > > we had a big thread going on to hash out the myth. The best that anyone
        > came
        > > up with was back after the turn of the century, batteries were made of
        > wooden
        > > boxes lined with tar paper. If you set this on a concrete floor and the
        > > battery leaked a little (which was fairly common), a conductive path
        would
        > be
        > > set up that would drain the battery. Concrete reacts really well with
        > battery
        > > acid. I still know people who won't put a battery on the floor unless
        it's
        > > setting on a piece of wood because of that myth.
        > >
        > > James
        > >
        > >
        > > "Kevin L. Conlin" wrote:
        > >
        > > > The myth about batteries and concrete is that by leaving them directly
        > on
        > > > top of a concrete floor, the concrete "drains" the charge out of the
        > > > battery. This hasn't been true since WW2, but a lot of people still
        > swear
        > > > by it since their father or grandfather drilled it into their heads.
        > None
        > > > of them can ever explain why this will happen, since it normally rests
        > on
        > > > conductive metal in a car, but they will adamantly swear it's true.
        > > >
        > > > ----- Original Message -----
        > > > From: s askew <rsaskew@...>
        > > > To: <hreg@egroups.com>
        > > > Sent: Friday, June 02, 2000 10:49 AM
        > > > Subject: Re: [hreg] FW: solar lawnmowers
        > > >
        > > > > I am not sure what the myth about batteries and concrete is, but
        > > > > from my experience a battery that leaks at all will begin to eat
        > > > > the concrete. I now store batteries in a plastic tub and have
        > > > > added some baking soda at the bottom hoping to neutralize any
        > > > > acid that does leak.
        > >
        > >
        > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
        > > Best friends, most artistic, class clown Find 'em here:
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        > >
        > >
        >
        >
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        >
      • Solarcraft@csi
        ... From: Kevin L. Conlin To: Sent: Friday, June 02, 2000 7:15 PM Subject: Re: [hreg] FW: solar lawnmowers
        Message 3 of 3 , Jun 7, 2000
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          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Kevin L. Conlin <kconlin@...>
          To: <hreg@egroups.com>
          Sent: Friday, June 02, 2000 7:15 PM
          Subject: Re: [hreg] FW: solar lawnmowers


          >
          > The myth about batteries and concrete is that by leaving them directly on
          > top of a concrete floor, the concrete "drains" the charge out of the
          > battery. This hasn't been true since WW2, but a lot of people still swear
          > by it since their father or grandfather drilled it into their heads. None
          > of them can ever explain why this will happen, since it normally rests on
          > conductive metal in a car, but they will adamantly swear it's true.
          >
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: s askew <rsaskew@...>
          > To: <hreg@egroups.com>
          > Sent: Friday, June 02, 2000 10:49 AM
          > Subject: Re: [hreg] FW: solar lawnmowers
          >
          >
          > > I am not sure what the myth about batteries and concrete is, but
          > > from my experience a battery that leaks at all will begin to eat
          > > the concrete. I now store batteries in a plastic tub and have
          > > added some baking soda at the bottom hoping to neutralize any
          > > acid that does leak.
          > >
          > > __________________________________________________
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          > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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          > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
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