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Re: [hreg] First National Certification Exam Completed for Solar PV Installers

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  • Jim & Janet
    Steven Shepard wrote: There have long been standards and regulations in place to control the electrical industry at large. And the NEC, IEEE and UL, among
    Message 1 of 8 , Nov 3, 2003
      Steven Shepard wrote:
       
      There have long been standards and regulations in place to control the electrical industry at large.
       
      And the NEC, IEEE and UL, among others, have been in place for decades for that very reason. Now that solar is becoming mainstream, these highly regarded agencies have come to recognize the importance of standards in the solar installation industry. Would you buy an inverter that doesn't carry certification by these 3 agencies? The state of California and the other states following their lead won't certify a PV system without it. This only adds legitimacy to the PV Industry.
       
      ...licensing of qualified installers called Engineers and electricians.
       
      Just because you are a licensed Electrician doesn't mean that you automatically know the technical points of designing or installing a PV system. And, from 20 years of related  personal experience, I know that, just because you are an Electrical Engineer, doesn't automatically qualify you to design a PV system.
       
      bunch of unqualified industry pundits...
       
      "The North American Board of Certified Energy Practitioners (NABCEP) is a volunteer board of renewable energy stakeholder representatives."  http://www.nabcep.org/ 
      These volunteers include the likes of those slackers from:
       
        Southwest Technology Development Institute
          National Joint Apprenticeship & Training Committee
          National Renewable Energy Laboratory
          Shell Solar
          Southwest Technology Development Institute
          Florida Solar Energy Center
          International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers
          Sacramento Municipal Utility District
          Sandia National Laboratories
          National Electrical Contractors Association
          Endecon Engineering
          Solar Energy Industries Association
          Sharp Electronics Corporation
          National Renewable Energy Laboratory
          Interstate Renewable Energy Council
          RWE SCHOTT Solar, Inc.
          Photovoltaic Energy Applied Research, BCIT
          Climate Institute
          University of Nevada, Reno/SRCC
          SunWize
       
      This doesn't even include the handfull of PV installers on the board.
       
      ...Utility companies are not your friend.
       
      Maybe utilities do represent a huge obstacle to National Interconnection Standards and fair consumer payment for net-metering nationwide, but utilities have lost one of their biggest arguments against PV over the safety of grid-tied PV systems; Inverter Certification by NEC, IEEE and UL allow for guaranteed safe grid-tied installations. Any other sort of certification, including installers, is going to further weaken their monopoly hold on their ratepayers.
      Some form of National Interconnection Standards are a part of the Bush Secret Energy Bill. If those standards don't get approved this time, it's only because not enough people are screaming at Congress to get a clue.
       
      ...NABCEP mission because they are now dominated by utilities
      I don't know who NABCEP gets its funding from. Maybe you should call Peter Sheehan, their Executive Director at (518) 889-8126 and ask him.
      Jim Duncan
      North Texas Renewable Energy Inc.
      4029 Aragon Drive
      Fort Worth,Texas 76133
      817.917.0527
      ntrei@...
      **************************
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 10:07 AM
      Subject: Re: [hreg] First National Certification Exam Completed for Solar PV Installers

      IMHO this is a load of bunk.  There have long been standards and regulations in place to control the electrical industry at large.  Those standards are the NEC and licensing of qualified installers called Engineers and electricians.  When the time comes that we allow a bunch of unqualified industry pundits to dictate to consumers and business practitioners alike who, what, where, how and why renewable energy technology will be applied it can only be a mistake.  The NABCEP is populated with political insiders and utilities more interested in controlling this industry, this economy and the people at large.  Both TREIA and TXSES support the NABCEP mission because they are now dominated by utilities.  Utilities now supply both organizations the majority of their funding.  Utility companies are not your friend.  Don't fall for this crap.
       
      SBT Designs
      25840 IH-10 West #1
      Boerne, Texas 78006
      210-698-7109
      FAX: 210-698-7147
      www.sbtdesigns.com
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 8:44 AM
      Subject: [hreg] First National Certification Exam Completed for Solar PV Installers

      Great news for the PV industry nationwide. The North American Board of Certified Energy Practitioners,  the first national PV installers certification program, finished it's first certification testing last month. Having NABCEP Certified installers will add a whole new level of integrity to the business of PV and wind installation.
      All the early details are here though it will be several weeks before the total results will be available.
      Jim Duncan
      Fort Worth

    • Chuck Wright
      Steve, Can you document your assertion that TXSES and TREIA are now dominated by utilities. Utilities now supply both organizations the majority of their
      Message 2 of 8 , Nov 3, 2003
        Steve,

        Can you document your assertion that TXSES and TREIA "are
        now dominated by utilities.  Utilities now supply both organizations
        the majority of their funding."?

        Inquiring minds want to know.

        Thanks,
        Chuck Wright
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 10:07 AM
        Subject: Re: [hreg] First National Certification Exam Completed for Solar PV Installers

        IMHO this is a load of bunk.  There have long been standards and regulations in place to control the electrical industry at large.  Those standards are the NEC and licensing of qualified installers called Engineers and electricians.  When the time comes that we allow a bunch of unqualified industry pundits to dictate to consumers and business practitioners alike who, what, where, how and why renewable energy technology will be applied it can only be a mistake.  The NABCEP is populated with political insiders and utilities more interested in controlling this industry, this economy and the people at large.  Both TREIA and TXSES support the NABCEP mission because they are now dominated by utilities.  Utilities now supply both organizations the majority of their funding.  Utility companies are not your friend.  Don't fall for this crap.
         
        SBT Designs
        25840 IH-10 West #1
        Boerne, Texas 78006
        210-698-7109
        FAX: 210-698-7147
        www.sbtdesigns.com

        -- 
        Chuck Wright
        http://chuck-wright.com
      • Steven Shepard
        Look at the list of current board members and candidates. It is utility loaded. SBT Designs 25581 IH-10 West San Antonio, Texas 78255 210-698-7109 FAX:
        Message 3 of 8 , Nov 3, 2003
          Look at the list of current board members and candidates.  It is utility loaded.
           
          SBT Designs
          25581 IH-10 West
          San Antonio, Texas 78255
          210-698-7109
          FAX: 210-698-7147
          www.sbtdesigns.com
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 1:21 PM
          Subject: Re: [ntreg] Re: [hreg] First National Certification Exam Completed for Solar PV Installers

          Steve,

          Can you document your assertion that TXSES and TREIA "are
          now dominated by utilities.  Utilities now supply both organizations
          the majority of their funding."?

          Inquiring minds want to know.

          Thanks,
          Chuck Wright
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 10:07 AM
          Subject: Re: [hreg] First National Certification Exam Completed for Solar PV Installers

          IMHO this is a load of bunk.  There have long been standards and regulations in place to control the electrical industry at large.  Those standards are the NEC and licensing of qualified installers called Engineers and electricians.  When the time comes that we allow a bunch of unqualified industry pundits to dictate to consumers and business practitioners alike who, what, where, how and why renewable energy technology will be applied it can only be a mistake.  The NABCEP is populated with political insiders and utilities more interested in controlling this industry, this economy and the people at large.  Both TREIA and TXSES support the NABCEP mission because they are now dominated by utilities.  Utilities now supply both organizations the majority of their funding.  Utility companies are not your friend.  Don't fall for this crap.
           
          SBT Designs
          25840 IH-10 West #1
          Boerne, Texas 78006
          210-698-7109
          FAX: 210-698-7147
          www.sbtdesigns.com

          -- 
          Chuck Wright
          http://chuck-wright.com


          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
        • Texas Solar Energy Society
          Just for clarity s sake, TREIA and TXSES are, of course, two entirely separate legal entities. I can not speak for TREIA, but as the Executive Director of
          Message 4 of 8 , Nov 3, 2003
            Just for clarity's sake, TREIA and TXSES are, of course, two entirely separate legal entities.  I can not speak for TREIA, but as the Executive Director of TXSES I can tell you with all certainty that not one single utility is a member nor does TXSES derive one cent of income from a utility.  The Green Building Program, housed at Austin Energy, is a sponsor for the Renewable Energy Roundup.  This hardly qualifies as "supplying both organizations with the majority of their funding."  TXSES continues to be supported by its grassroots members, EarthShare of Texas work place giving campaigns, and sometimes profits from major events such as the national conference or The Roundup in a good year.
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 1:21 PM
            Subject: Re: [ntreg] Re: [hreg] First National Certification Exam Completed for Solar PV Installers

            Steve,

            Can you document your assertion that TXSES and TREIA "are
            now dominated by utilities.  Utilities now supply both organizations
            the majority of their funding."?

            Inquiring minds want to know.

            Thanks,
            Chuck Wright
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 10:07 AM
            Subject: Re: [hreg] First National Certification Exam Completed for Solar PV Installers

            IMHO this is a load of bunk.  There have long been standards and regulations in place to control the electrical industry at large.  Those standards are the NEC and licensing of qualified installers called Engineers and electricians.  When the time comes that we allow a bunch of unqualified industry pundits to dictate to consumers and business practitioners alike who, what, where, how and why renewable energy technology will be applied it can only be a mistake.  The NABCEP is populated with political insiders and utilities more interested in controlling this industry, this economy and the people at large.  Both TREIA and TXSES support the NABCEP mission because they are now dominated by utilities.  Utilities now supply both organizations the majority of their funding.  Utility companies are not your friend.  Don't fall for this crap.
             
            SBT Designs
            25840 IH-10 West #1
            Boerne, Texas 78006
            210-698-7109
            FAX: 210-698-7147
            www.sbtdesigns.com

            -- 
            Chuck Wright
            http://chuck-wright.com


            To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            dfwsun-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
          • Steven Shepard
            I doubt you are qualified to speak for NEC, UL or the IEEE but you do make my point that the NABCEP is reinventing the wheel and adding additional and
            Message 5 of 8 , Nov 4, 2003
              I doubt you are qualified to speak for NEC, UL or the IEEE but you do make my point that the NABCEP is reinventing the wheel and adding additional and unnecessary rules and regulations on top of an industry and technology that does not require their input.
               
              Rarely is there a situation where additional laws, rules and regulations add any value except perhaps with non-profits who tailor their structure in order to invite additional funding.
               
              SBT Designs
              25581 IH-10 West
              San Antonio, Texas 78255
              210-698-7109
              FAX: 210-698-7147
              www.sbtdesigns.com
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 11:59 AM
              Subject: Re: [hreg] First National Certification Exam Completed for Solar PV Installers

              Steven Shepard wrote:
               
              There have long been standards and regulations in place to control the electrical industry at large.
               
              And the NEC, IEEE and UL, among others, have been in place for decades for that very reason. Now that solar is becoming mainstream, these highly regarded agencies have come to recognize the importance of standards in the solar installation industry. Would you buy an inverter that doesn't carry certification by these 3 agencies? The state of California and the other states following their lead won't certify a PV system without it. This only adds legitimacy to the PV Industry.
               
              ...licensing of qualified installers called Engineers and electricians.
               
              Just because you are a licensed Electrician doesn't mean that you automatically know the technical points of designing or installing a PV system. And, from 20 years of related  personal experience, I know that, just because you are an Electrical Engineer, doesn't automatically qualify you to design a PV system.
               
              bunch of unqualified industry pundits...
               
              "The North American Board of Certified Energy Practitioners (NABCEP) is a volunteer board of renewable energy stakeholder representatives."  http://www.nabcep.org/ 
              These volunteers include the likes of those slackers from:
               
                Southwest Technology Development Institute
                  National Joint Apprenticeship & Training Committee
                  National Renewable Energy Laboratory
                  Shell Solar
                  Southwest Technology Development Institute
                  Florida Solar Energy Center
                  International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers
                  Sacramento Municipal Utility District
                  Sandia National Laboratories
                  National Electrical Contractors Association
                  Endecon Engineering
                  Solar Energy Industries Association
                  Sharp Electronics Corporation
                  National Renewable Energy Laboratory
                  Interstate Renewable Energy Council
                  RWE SCHOTT Solar, Inc.
                  Photovoltaic Energy Applied Research, BCIT
                  Climate Institute
                  University of Nevada, Reno/SRCC
                  SunWize
               
              This doesn't even include the handfull of PV installers on the board.
               
              ...Utility companies are not your friend.
               
              Maybe utilities do represent a huge obstacle to National Interconnection Standards and fair consumer payment for net-metering nationwide, but utilities have lost one of their biggest arguments against PV over the safety of grid-tied PV systems; Inverter Certification by NEC, IEEE and UL allow for guaranteed safe grid-tied installations. Any other sort of certification, including installers, is going to further weaken their monopoly hold on their ratepayers.
              Some form of National Interconnection Standards are a part of the Bush Secret Energy Bill. If those standards don't get approved this time, it's only because not enough people are screaming at Congress to get a clue.
               
              ...NABCEP mission because they are now dominated by utilities
              I don't know who NABCEP gets its funding from. Maybe you should call Peter Sheehan, their Executive Director at (518) 889-8126 and ask him.
              Jim Duncan
              North Texas Renewable Energy Inc.
              4029 Aragon Drive
              Fort Worth,Texas 76133
              817.917.0527
              ntrei@...
              **************************
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 10:07 AM
              Subject: Re: [hreg] First National Certification Exam Completed for Solar PV Installers

              IMHO this is a load of bunk.  There have long been standards and regulations in place to control the electrical industry at large.  Those standards are the NEC and licensing of qualified installers called Engineers and electricians.  When the time comes that we allow a bunch of unqualified industry pundits to dictate to consumers and business practitioners alike who, what, where, how and why renewable energy technology will be applied it can only be a mistake.  The NABCEP is populated with political insiders and utilities more interested in controlling this industry, this economy and the people at large.  Both TREIA and TXSES support the NABCEP mission because they are now dominated by utilities.  Utilities now supply both organizations the majority of their funding.  Utility companies are not your friend.  Don't fall for this crap.
               
              SBT Designs
              25840 IH-10 West #1
              Boerne, Texas 78006
              210-698-7109
              FAX: 210-698-7147
              www.sbtdesigns.com
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 8:44 AM
              Subject: [hreg] First National Certification Exam Completed for Solar PV Installers

              Great news for the PV industry nationwide. The North American Board of Certified Energy Practitioners,  the first national PV installers certification program, finished it's first certification testing last month. Having NABCEP Certified installers will add a whole new level of integrity to the business of PV and wind installation.
              All the early details are here though it will be several weeks before the total results will be available.
              Jim Duncan
              Fort Worth



              Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
            • Michael Christie
              Steve, It is apparent that Jim Duncan has hit a sore spot with you. I am curious as to why your replies are so caustic. Perhaps there is more here than meets
              Message 6 of 8 , Nov 5, 2008
                Steve,
                 
                It is apparent that Jim Duncan has hit a sore spot with you. I am curious as to why your replies are so caustic. Perhaps there is more here than meets the eye of us uneducated masses? Could you explain your views a little more calmly and informatively? Or refrain??? I tune into this discussion group to learn, so your specific comments as to why NABCEP is so bogus would be appreciated.
                 
                For the benifit of anyone who is interested in home wind energy, here is a site with honest real life data on several different wind generators: http://www.ndsu.nodak.edu/ndsu/klemen/index.htm. It is a very informative site.
                 
                Michael Christie
                 
                 -----Original Message-----
                From: Steven Shepard [mailto:sbtdesigns@...]
                Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 7:41 AM
                To: hreg@yahoogroups.com; ntreg@yahoogroups.com; SolarAustin@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [hreg] First National Certification Exam Completed for Solar PV Installers

                I doubt you are qualified to speak for NEC, UL or the IEEE but you do make my point that the NABCEP is reinventing the wheel and adding additional and unnecessary rules and regulations on top of an industry and technology that does not require their input.
                 
                Rarely is there a situation where additional laws, rules and regulations add any value except perhaps with non-profits who tailor their structure in order to invite additional funding.
                 
                SBT Designs
                25581 IH-10 West
                San Antonio, Texas 78255
                210-698-7109
                FAX: 210-698-7147
                www.sbtdesigns.com
                ----- Original Message -----
                Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 11:59 AM
                Subject: Re: [hreg] First National Certification Exam Completed for Solar PV Installers

                Steven Shepard wrote:
                 
                There have long been standards and regulations in place to control the electrical industry at large.
                 
                And the NEC, IEEE and UL, among others, have been in place for decades for that very reason. Now that solar is becoming mainstream, these highly regarded agencies have come to recognize the importance of standards in the solar installation industry. Would you buy an inverter that doesn't carry certification by these 3 agencies? The state of California and the other states following their lead won't certify a PV system without it. This only adds legitimacy to the PV Industry.
                 
                ...licensing of qualified installers called Engineers and electricians.
                 
                Just because you are a licensed Electrician doesn't mean that you automatically know the technical points of designing or installing a PV system. And, from 20 years of related  personal experience, I know that, just because you are an Electrical Engineer, doesn't automatically qualify you to design a PV system.
                 
                bunch of unqualified industry pundits...
                 
                "The North American Board of Certified Energy Practitioners (NABCEP) is a volunteer board of renewable energy stakeholder representatives."  http://www.nabcep.org/ 
                These volunteers include the likes of those slackers from:
                 
                  Southwest Technology Development Institute
                    National Joint Apprenticeship & Training Committee
                    National Renewable Energy Laboratory
                    Shell Solar
                    Southwest Technology Development Institute
                    Florida Solar Energy Center
                    International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers
                    Sacramento Municipal Utility District
                    Sandia National Laboratories
                    National Electrical Contractors Association
                    Endecon Engineering
                    Solar Energy Industries Association
                    Sharp Electronics Corporation
                    National Renewable Energy Laboratory
                    Interstate Renewable Energy Council
                    RWE SCHOTT Solar, Inc.
                    Photovoltaic Energy Applied Research, BCIT
                    Climate Institute
                    University of Nevada, Reno/SRCC
                    SunWize
                 
                This doesn't even include the handfull of PV installers on the board.
                 
                ...Utility companies are not your friend.
                 
                Maybe utilities do represent a huge obstacle to National Interconnection Standards and fair consumer payment for net-metering nationwide, but utilities have lost one of their biggest arguments against PV over the safety of grid-tied PV systems; Inverter Certification by NEC, IEEE and UL allow for guaranteed safe grid-tied installations. Any other sort of certification, including installers, is going to further weaken their monopoly hold on their ratepayers.
                Some form of National Interconnection Standards are a part of the Bush Secret Energy Bill. If those standards don't get approved this time, it's only because not enough people are screaming at Congress to get a clue.
                 
                ...NABCEP mission because they are now dominated by utilities
                I don't know who NABCEP gets its funding from. Maybe you should call Peter Sheehan, their Executive Director at (518) 889-8126 and ask him.
                Jim Duncan
                North Texas Renewable Energy Inc.
                4029 Aragon Drive
                Fort Worth,Texas 76133
                817.917.0527
                ntrei@...
                **************************
                ----- Original Message -----
                Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 10:07 AM
                Subject: Re: [hreg] First National Certification Exam Completed for Solar PV Installers

                IMHO this is a load of bunk.  There have long been standards and regulations in place to control the electrical industry at large.  Those standards are the NEC and licensing of qualified installers called Engineers and electricians.  When the time comes that we allow a bunch of unqualified industry pundits to dictate to consumers and business practitioners alike who, what, where, how and why renewable energy technology will be applied it can only be a mistake.  The NABCEP is populated with political insiders and utilities more interested in controlling this industry, this economy and the people at large.  Both TREIA and TXSES support the NABCEP mission because they are now dominated by utilities.  Utilities now supply both organizations the majority of their funding.  Utility companies are not your friend.  Don't fall for this crap.
                 
                SBT Designs
                25840 IH-10 West #1
                Boerne, Texas 78006
                210-698-7109
                FAX: 210-698-7147
                www.sbtdesigns.com
                ----- Original Message -----
                Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 8:44 AM
                Subject: [hreg] First National Certification Exam Completed for Solar PV Installers

                Great news for the PV industry nationwide. The North American Board of Certified Energy Practitioners,  the first national PV installers certification program, finished it's first certification testing last month. Having NABCEP Certified installers will add a whole new level of integrity to the business of PV and wind installation.
                All the early details are here though it will be several weeks before the total results will be available.
                Jim Duncan
                Fort Worth



                Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


                Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
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