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RE: [hreg] Grid revisions

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  • Michael Christie
    I agree with your comments about the blackout being a distribution problem. According to what I have been told, Texas has it s own relatively isolated grid
    Message 1 of 13 , Aug 18, 2003
    • 0 Attachment
      I agree with your comments about the blackout being a distribution problem.
       
      According to what I have been told, Texas has it's own relatively isolated grid system. It seems to me that if congress should decide to fund upgrading of the northwestern grid or, as you suggest, a fully upgraded system, we here in Texas would end up paying for something we may not need. Does anyone know just how good the Texas system is? I know that it is not adequate to transmit all the wind farm production from northwest Texas, and there is a project to build more lines for that purpose. Rebuilding the grid system in the Northwest is going to be a hugely expensive enterprise.
       
      Michael
       
       -----Original Message-----
      From: Ooi, Han [mailto:Han.Ooi@...]
      Sent: Monday, August 18, 2003 4:14 AM
      To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [hreg] Grid revisions

      Well,
         I highly doubt solar energy would have done anything for the blackouts in the Midwest and Northeast without an upgraded transmission and distribution system.  If you have ever looked at a solar energy map, the part of the USA that receives the most solar radiation is the Southwest (200 to 250 Watts per square meter on average anually).  Only in that region do you receive enough sun throughout the year to more likely recoup your investment in solar.
       
        A more realistic solution that won't get you laughed out of your congressman's office is to propose an advanced fully upgraded national transmission grid that links a diverse set of electric generation sources including renewables such as solar, wind, hydro, and geo.  This way renewable energy that is generated in areas that are abundant in one type of renewable energy can transmit it to an area that is poor in renewable energy.
       
        As for the proposal for distributed micro generation, it would be feasible in some areas but not in others again depending on the type of renewable available.  You still need a certain economy of scale to justify the cost.  Otherwise, it smells of Chairman Mao's Great Leap Forward where every peasant family had an iron smelter in their back yard that produced crap iron.
       
        Bottom line, we are dealing with a problem of distribution, not generation.
      -----Original Message-----
      From: Steven Shepard [mailto:sbtdesigns@...]
      Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2003 8:48 PM
      To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [hreg] Grid revisions

      If you need material for a letter to a politician you are welcome to the following:
       
      On Thursday, August 14, 2003 the northeastern and mid-western US experienced the largest blackout in this country's history. 
      Mass transit systems ground to a halt, oil refineries were forced to shut down, the FAA stopped flights into airports, nuclear
      reactors were taken off-line, and millions were left without power.  The blackouts affected approximately 50 million people over a
      9300-square-mile area.  New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg told reporters, "All of a sudden, a few things weren't working
      and then you realized how dependent we are on electricity."
       
      These events cascaded out of control because the electric utility grid was stressed by air-conditioning demand from the summer
      heat.  Almost the entire US was at temperatures near or above 90 degrees.  Because of the enormous energy load it did not take
      much of a trigger to send the energy delivery system down. 
       
      As one should expect during hot weather, the solar resource of this nation was excellent and nearly ideal in most of the stressed
      regions of this country.  A more widely dispersed base of solar energy could have reduced the overall delivery system stress and
      lowered the risk of catastrophic failure.  Thursday's blackouts are a wake-up call, reminding us that North America's electrical
      grid is a dysfunctional patchwork system that requires dramatic changes.  Rising electricity consumption and costs are significant
      factors in the instability of the grid. 
       
      Yet, energy saving products and technologies are widely available.  More efficient appliances, lights, better constructed buildings,
      and various forms or renewable energy such as solar and wind power can dramatically reduce the amount of electricity we draw
      from the electric utility grid at large.  In most cases these energy saving technologies can save money both in the short and long
      term.  Renewable energy is a sustainable product and service that we all need now.
       
      It is incumbent upon myself and my business as a renewable energy vendor to take this opportunity to write and shout about the
      benefits of renewable energy while electricity is on the mind of the public and the press.  We can improve the electricity
      generation and distribution system and help avoid blackouts by using less electricity and producing power independently using
      renewable energy such as solar and wind power.
       
      Now is the time for America to commit to using less electricity and to speeding the installation of distributed energy systems, such as rooftop solar power systems, fuel cells, and small wind energy power systems.  Not only would this decrease the likelihood of
      future blackouts, but it would slow global warming and reduce air pollution.
       
      If everyone in our community were to replace one of their old inefficient appliances or cars with a new energy efficient one, we
      could significantly reduce our reliance on foreign oil and the electric utility grid.  This would help avoid blackouts such as the one
      that recently affected 50 million people.
       
      The solar panels on our office that make up our independent power system provide clean, reliable electricity that doesn't contribute
      to blackouts and helps to conserve our nation's energy resources.
       
      Steve Shepard
      SBT Designs
      25840 IH-10 West #1
      Boerne, Texas 78006
      210-698-7109
      FAX: 210-698-7147
      www.sbtdesigns.com
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2003 8:31 PM
      Subject: [hreg] Grid revisions

      In light of the Blackout in the Northeast, politicians may be sensitive to related issues.  Now would be a good time to write your congressman and request that renewable energy be part of any Grid upgrade.  Many of the nations potential wind sites need to have grid connection.  Question.  Would the black-out have been as severe if there was more wind power on the grid?  Are wind farms less susceptible to power failures?
       
      -Chris


      Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


      Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


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    • Ooi, Han
      Well, It is hard to forecast the impact of an integrated grid on Texas. The funny thing about power is that its demand changes from second to second. Here in
      Message 2 of 13 , Aug 18, 2003
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        Well,
           It is hard to forecast the impact of an integrated grid on Texas.  The funny thing about power is that its demand changes from second to second. 
         
           Here in Texas, we do have an isolated grid.  We also have 20 percent overcapcity in terms of generation.  An integrated grid would allow all the power plants to sell electricity elsewhere instead of being mothballed.  This would lower the cost of spare capacity which we currently have to pay for.
         
            Of course, this would also increase demand for Texas electricity which could in certain supply and demand scenarios increase its cost.  The two factors tend to offset each other so the absolute effect on price could be hard to quantify. 
         
           Also, don't forget, California and the Southwest (Arizona, Nevada, New Mexico) are in different timezones from us so their peak periods would not usually coincide with ours.  Thus we would pay less when they are offpeak and pay more when they are peaking. 
         
            Overall, an integrated national grid would smooth out the supply and demand for electricity thus reducing the risk for the power generation companies.  Risk is one of the major factors affecting the capital cost for building generation facilities-> it affects the interest rate with which companies borrow at.  A reduction in risk would also benefit everyone by lowering the price to bring more generation capacity online.
         
            However, there still are clear losers to a national power grid scenario.  These are the people and companies who get their power from hydroelectric sources.  The typical cost for a kilowatt hour of hydroelectric power is only 1.5 cents.  Typical wholesale cost of fossil fuel power is 4.5 cents so companies (such as aluminum smelters) who are enjoying ridiculously low prices right now would definitely face a 200% increase in their power costs thus possibly putting them out of business.
        -----Original Message-----
        From: Michael Christie [mailto:mchristi@...]
        Sent: Monday, August 18, 2003 12:32 PM
        To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [hreg] Grid revisions

        I agree with your comments about the blackout being a distribution problem.
         
        According to what I have been told, Texas has it's own relatively isolated grid system. It seems to me that if congress should decide to fund upgrading of the northwestern grid or, as you suggest, a fully upgraded system, we here in Texas would end up paying for something we may not need. Does anyone know just how good the Texas system is? I know that it is not adequate to transmit all the wind farm production from northwest Texas, and there is a project to build more lines for that purpose. Rebuilding the grid system in the Northwest is going to be a hugely expensive enterprise.
         
        Michael
         
         -----Original Message-----
        From: Ooi, Han [mailto:Han.Ooi@...]
        Sent: Monday, August 18, 2003 4:14 AM
        To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [hreg] Grid revisions

        Well,
           I highly doubt solar energy would have done anything for the blackouts in the Midwest and Northeast without an upgraded transmission and distribution system.  If you have ever looked at a solar energy map, the part of the USA that receives the most solar radiation is the Southwest (200 to 250 Watts per square meter on average anually).  Only in that region do you receive enough sun throughout the year to more likely recoup your investment in solar.
         
          A more realistic solution that won't get you laughed out of your congressman's office is to propose an advanced fully upgraded national transmission grid that links a diverse set of electric generation sources including renewables such as solar, wind, hydro, and geo.  This way renewable energy that is generated in areas that are abundant in one type of renewable energy can transmit it to an area that is poor in renewable energy.
         
          As for the proposal for distributed micro generation, it would be feasible in some areas but not in others again depending on the type of renewable available.  You still need a certain economy of scale to justify the cost.  Otherwise, it smells of Chairman Mao's Great Leap Forward where every peasant family had an iron smelter in their back yard that produced crap iron.
         
          Bottom line, we are dealing with a problem of distribution, not generation.
        -----Original Message-----
        From: Steven Shepard [mailto:sbtdesigns@...]
        Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2003 8:48 PM
        To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [hreg] Grid revisions

        If you need material for a letter to a politician you are welcome to the following:
         
        On Thursday, August 14, 2003 the northeastern and mid-western US experienced the largest blackout in this country's history. 
        Mass transit systems ground to a halt, oil refineries were forced to shut down, the FAA stopped flights into airports, nuclear
        reactors were taken off-line, and millions were left without power.  The blackouts affected approximately 50 million people over a
        9300-square-mile area.  New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg told reporters, "All of a sudden, a few things weren't working
        and then you realized how dependent we are on electricity."
         
        These events cascaded out of control because the electric utility grid was stressed by air-conditioning demand from the summer
        heat.  Almost the entire US was at temperatures near or above 90 degrees.  Because of the enormous energy load it did not take
        much of a trigger to send the energy delivery system down. 
         
        As one should expect during hot weather, the solar resource of this nation was excellent and nearly ideal in most of the stressed
        regions of this country.  A more widely dispersed base of solar energy could have reduced the overall delivery system stress and
        lowered the risk of catastrophic failure.  Thursday's blackouts are a wake-up call, reminding us that North America's electrical
        grid is a dysfunctional patchwork system that requires dramatic changes.  Rising electricity consumption and costs are significant
        factors in the instability of the grid. 
         
        Yet, energy saving products and technologies are widely available.  More efficient appliances, lights, better constructed buildings,
        and various forms or renewable energy such as solar and wind power can dramatically reduce the amount of electricity we draw
        from the electric utility grid at large.  In most cases these energy saving technologies can save money both in the short and long
        term.  Renewable energy is a sustainable product and service that we all need now.
         
        It is incumbent upon myself and my business as a renewable energy vendor to take this opportunity to write and shout about the
        benefits of renewable energy while electricity is on the mind of the public and the press.  We can improve the electricity
        generation and distribution system and help avoid blackouts by using less electricity and producing power independently using
        renewable energy such as solar and wind power.
         
        Now is the time for America to commit to using less electricity and to speeding the installation of distributed energy systems, such as rooftop solar power systems, fuel cells, and small wind energy power systems.  Not only would this decrease the likelihood of
        future blackouts, but it would slow global warming and reduce air pollution.
         
        If everyone in our community were to replace one of their old inefficient appliances or cars with a new energy efficient one, we
        could significantly reduce our reliance on foreign oil and the electric utility grid.  This would help avoid blackouts such as the one
        that recently affected 50 million people.
         
        The solar panels on our office that make up our independent power system provide clean, reliable electricity that doesn't contribute
        to blackouts and helps to conserve our nation's energy resources.
         
        Steve Shepard
        SBT Designs
        25840 IH-10 West #1
        Boerne, Texas 78006
        210-698-7109
        FAX: 210-698-7147
        www.sbtdesigns.com
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2003 8:31 PM
        Subject: [hreg] Grid revisions

        In light of the Blackout in the Northeast, politicians may be sensitive to related issues.  Now would be a good time to write your congressman and request that renewable energy be part of any Grid upgrade.  Many of the nations potential wind sites need to have grid connection.  Question.  Would the black-out have been as severe if there was more wind power on the grid?  Are wind farms less susceptible to power failures?
         
        -Chris


        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
      • Steven Shepard
        Actually, I am quite certain that the folks up north who huddled in the dark of their unpowered homes smelling their food spoil in the refrigeration would be
        Message 3 of 13 , Aug 18, 2003
        • 0 Attachment
          Actually, I am quite certain that the folks up north who huddled in the dark of their unpowered homes smelling their food spoil in the refrigeration would be very glad to have some type back up power supply on their home.  Solar and wind power systems are an example of distributed power. 
           
          SBT Designs
          25840 IH-10 West #1
          Boerne, Texas 78006
          210-698-7109
          FAX: 210-698-7147
          www.sbtdesigns.com
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Ooi, Han
          Sent: Monday, August 18, 2003 4:14 AM
          Subject: RE: [hreg] Grid revisions

          Well,
             I highly doubt solar energy would have done anything for the blackouts in the Midwest and Northeast without an upgraded transmission and distribution system.  If you have ever looked at a solar energy map, the part of the USA that receives the most solar radiation is the Southwest (200 to 250 Watts per square meter on average anually).  Only in that region do you receive enough sun throughout the year to more likely recoup your investment in solar.
           
            A more realistic solution that won't get you laughed out of your congressman's office is to propose an advanced fully upgraded national transmission grid that links a diverse set of electric generation sources including renewables such as solar, wind, hydro, and geo.  This way renewable energy that is generated in areas that are abundant in one type of renewable energy can transmit it to an area that is poor in renewable energy.
           
            As for the proposal for distributed micro generation, it would be feasible in some areas but not in others again depending on the type of renewable available.  You still need a certain economy of scale to justify the cost.  Otherwise, it smells of Chairman Mao's Great Leap Forward where every peasant family had an iron smelter in their back yard that produced crap iron.
           
            Bottom line, we are dealing with a problem of distribution, not generation.
          -----Original Message-----
          From: Steven Shepard [mailto:sbtdesigns@...]
          Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2003 8:48 PM
          To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [hreg] Grid revisions

          If you need material for a letter to a politician you are welcome to the following:
           
          On Thursday, August 14, 2003 the northeastern and mid-western US experienced the largest blackout in this country's history. 
          Mass transit systems ground to a halt, oil refineries were forced to shut down, the FAA stopped flights into airports, nuclear
          reactors were taken off-line, and millions were left without power.  The blackouts affected approximately 50 million people over a
          9300-square-mile area.  New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg told reporters, "All of a sudden, a few things weren't working
          and then you realized how dependent we are on electricity."
           
          These events cascaded out of control because the electric utility grid was stressed by air-conditioning demand from the summer
          heat.  Almost the entire US was at temperatures near or above 90 degrees.  Because of the enormous energy load it did not take
          much of a trigger to send the energy delivery system down. 
           
          As one should expect during hot weather, the solar resource of this nation was excellent and nearly ideal in most of the stressed
          regions of this country.  A more widely dispersed base of solar energy could have reduced the overall delivery system stress and
          lowered the risk of catastrophic failure.  Thursday's blackouts are a wake-up call, reminding us that North America's electrical
          grid is a dysfunctional patchwork system that requires dramatic changes.  Rising electricity consumption and costs are significant
          factors in the instability of the grid. 
           
          Yet, energy saving products and technologies are widely available.  More efficient appliances, lights, better constructed buildings,
          and various forms or renewable energy such as solar and wind power can dramatically reduce the amount of electricity we draw
          from the electric utility grid at large.  In most cases these energy saving technologies can save money both in the short and long
          term.  Renewable energy is a sustainable product and service that we all need now.
           
          It is incumbent upon myself and my business as a renewable energy vendor to take this opportunity to write and shout about the
          benefits of renewable energy while electricity is on the mind of the public and the press.  We can improve the electricity
          generation and distribution system and help avoid blackouts by using less electricity and producing power independently using
          renewable energy such as solar and wind power.
           
          Now is the time for America to commit to using less electricity and to speeding the installation of distributed energy systems, such as rooftop solar power systems, fuel cells, and small wind energy power systems.  Not only would this decrease the likelihood of
          future blackouts, but it would slow global warming and reduce air pollution.
           
          If everyone in our community were to replace one of their old inefficient appliances or cars with a new energy efficient one, we
          could significantly reduce our reliance on foreign oil and the electric utility grid.  This would help avoid blackouts such as the one
          that recently affected 50 million people.
           
          The solar panels on our office that make up our independent power system provide clean, reliable electricity that doesn't contribute
          to blackouts and helps to conserve our nation's energy resources.
           
          Steve Shepard
          SBT Designs
          25840 IH-10 West #1
          Boerne, Texas 78006
          210-698-7109
          FAX: 210-698-7147
          www.sbtdesigns.com
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2003 8:31 PM
          Subject: [hreg] Grid revisions

          In light of the Blackout in the Northeast, politicians may be sensitive to related issues.  Now would be a good time to write your congressman and request that renewable energy be part of any Grid upgrade.  Many of the nations potential wind sites need to have grid connection.  Question.  Would the black-out have been as severe if there was more wind power on the grid?  Are wind farms less susceptible to power failures?
           
          -Chris


          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
        • Ooi, Han
          Checked out your web site. Didn t find any product that would help a New Yorker living on an old second floor, north facing apartment in a 20 story highrise
          Message 4 of 13 , Aug 18, 2003
          • 0 Attachment
            Checked out your web site.
             
            Didn't find any product that would help a New Yorker living on an old second floor, north facing apartment in a 20 story highrise surrounded by other 20 story highrises on all four sides.  Do you know of any other company who would carry a renewable distributed power product that can pump out 1kW/hour of sustain power 24/7?  Oh, and the product must not be an eyesore and violate any zoning/deed restrictions.
            -----Original Message-----
            From: Steven Shepard [mailto:sbtdesigns@...]
            Sent: Monday, August 18, 2003 1:56 PM
            To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [hreg] Grid revisions

            Actually, I am quite certain that the folks up north who huddled in the dark of their unpowered homes smelling their food spoil in the refrigeration would be very glad to have some type back up power supply on their home.  Solar and wind power systems are an example of distributed power. 
             
            SBT Designs
            25840 IH-10 West #1
            Boerne, Texas 78006
            210-698-7109
            FAX: 210-698-7147
            www.sbtdesigns.com
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Ooi, Han
            Sent: Monday, August 18, 2003 4:14 AM
            Subject: RE: [hreg] Grid revisions

            Well,
               I highly doubt solar energy would have done anything for the blackouts in the Midwest and Northeast without an upgraded transmission and distribution system.  If you have ever looked at a solar energy map, the part of the USA that receives the most solar radiation is the Southwest (200 to 250 Watts per square meter on average anually).  Only in that region do you receive enough sun throughout the year to more likely recoup your investment in solar.
             
              A more realistic solution that won't get you laughed out of your congressman's office is to propose an advanced fully upgraded national transmission grid that links a diverse set of electric generation sources including renewables such as solar, wind, hydro, and geo.  This way renewable energy that is generated in areas that are abundant in one type of renewable energy can transmit it to an area that is poor in renewable energy.
             
              As for the proposal for distributed micro generation, it would be feasible in some areas but not in others again depending on the type of renewable available.  You still need a certain economy of scale to justify the cost.  Otherwise, it smells of Chairman Mao's Great Leap Forward where every peasant family had an iron smelter in their back yard that produced crap iron.
             
              Bottom line, we are dealing with a problem of distribution, not generation.
            -----Original Message-----
            From: Steven Shepard [mailto:sbtdesigns@...]
            Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2003 8:48 PM
            To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [hreg] Grid revisions

            If you need material for a letter to a politician you are welcome to the following:
             
            On Thursday, August 14, 2003 the northeastern and mid-western US experienced the largest blackout in this country's history. 
            Mass transit systems ground to a halt, oil refineries were forced to shut down, the FAA stopped flights into airports, nuclear
            reactors were taken off-line, and millions were left without power.  The blackouts affected approximately 50 million people over a
            9300-square-mile area.  New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg told reporters, "All of a sudden, a few things weren't working
            and then you realized how dependent we are on electricity."
             
            These events cascaded out of control because the electric utility grid was stressed by air-conditioning demand from the summer
            heat.  Almost the entire US was at temperatures near or above 90 degrees.  Because of the enormous energy load it did not take
            much of a trigger to send the energy delivery system down. 
             
            As one should expect during hot weather, the solar resource of this nation was excellent and nearly ideal in most of the stressed
            regions of this country.  A more widely dispersed base of solar energy could have reduced the overall delivery system stress and
            lowered the risk of catastrophic failure.  Thursday's blackouts are a wake-up call, reminding us that North America's electrical
            grid is a dysfunctional patchwork system that requires dramatic changes.  Rising electricity consumption and costs are significant
            factors in the instability of the grid. 
             
            Yet, energy saving products and technologies are widely available.  More efficient appliances, lights, better constructed buildings,
            and various forms or renewable energy such as solar and wind power can dramatically reduce the amount of electricity we draw
            from the electric utility grid at large.  In most cases these energy saving technologies can save money both in the short and long
            term.  Renewable energy is a sustainable product and service that we all need now.
             
            It is incumbent upon myself and my business as a renewable energy vendor to take this opportunity to write and shout about the
            benefits of renewable energy while electricity is on the mind of the public and the press.  We can improve the electricity
            generation and distribution system and help avoid blackouts by using less electricity and producing power independently using
            renewable energy such as solar and wind power.
             
            Now is the time for America to commit to using less electricity and to speeding the installation of distributed energy systems, such as rooftop solar power systems, fuel cells, and small wind energy power systems.  Not only would this decrease the likelihood of
            future blackouts, but it would slow global warming and reduce air pollution.
             
            If everyone in our community were to replace one of their old inefficient appliances or cars with a new energy efficient one, we
            could significantly reduce our reliance on foreign oil and the electric utility grid.  This would help avoid blackouts such as the one
            that recently affected 50 million people.
             
            The solar panels on our office that make up our independent power system provide clean, reliable electricity that doesn't contribute
            to blackouts and helps to conserve our nation's energy resources.
             
            Steve Shepard
            SBT Designs
            25840 IH-10 West #1
            Boerne, Texas 78006
            210-698-7109
            FAX: 210-698-7147
            www.sbtdesigns.com
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2003 8:31 PM
            Subject: [hreg] Grid revisions

            In light of the Blackout in the Northeast, politicians may be sensitive to related issues.  Now would be a good time to write your congressman and request that renewable energy be part of any Grid upgrade.  Many of the nations potential wind sites need to have grid connection.  Question.  Would the black-out have been as severe if there was more wind power on the grid?  Are wind farms less susceptible to power failures?
             
            -Chris


            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
          • Steven Shepard
            Oh, I could think of something if the money was right. SBT Designs 25840 IH-10 West #1 Boerne, Texas 78006 210-698-7109 FAX: 210-698-7147 www.sbtdesigns.com
            Message 5 of 13 , Aug 18, 2003
            • 0 Attachment
              Oh, I could think of something if the money was right.
               
              SBT Designs
              25840 IH-10 West #1
              Boerne, Texas 78006
              210-698-7109
              FAX: 210-698-7147
              www.sbtdesigns.com
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Ooi, Han
              Sent: Monday, August 18, 2003 2:10 PM
              Subject: RE: [hreg] Grid revisions

              Checked out your web site.
               
              Didn't find any product that would help a New Yorker living on an old second floor, north facing apartment in a 20 story highrise surrounded by other 20 story highrises on all four sides.  Do you know of any other company who would carry a renewable distributed power product that can pump out 1kW/hour of sustain power 24/7?  Oh, and the product must not be an eyesore and violate any zoning/deed restrictions.
              -----Original Message-----
              From: Steven Shepard [mailto:sbtdesigns@...]
              Sent: Monday, August 18, 2003 1:56 PM
              To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [hreg] Grid revisions

              Actually, I am quite certain that the folks up north who huddled in the dark of their unpowered homes smelling their food spoil in the refrigeration would be very glad to have some type back up power supply on their home.  Solar and wind power systems are an example of distributed power. 
               
              SBT Designs
              25840 IH-10 West #1
              Boerne, Texas 78006
              210-698-7109
              FAX: 210-698-7147
              www.sbtdesigns.com
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Ooi, Han
              Sent: Monday, August 18, 2003 4:14 AM
              Subject: RE: [hreg] Grid revisions

              Well,
                 I highly doubt solar energy would have done anything for the blackouts in the Midwest and Northeast without an upgraded transmission and distribution system.  If you have ever looked at a solar energy map, the part of the USA that receives the most solar radiation is the Southwest (200 to 250 Watts per square meter on average anually).  Only in that region do you receive enough sun throughout the year to more likely recoup your investment in solar.
               
                A more realistic solution that won't get you laughed out of your congressman's office is to propose an advanced fully upgraded national transmission grid that links a diverse set of electric generation sources including renewables such as solar, wind, hydro, and geo.  This way renewable energy that is generated in areas that are abundant in one type of renewable energy can transmit it to an area that is poor in renewable energy.
               
                As for the proposal for distributed micro generation, it would be feasible in some areas but not in others again depending on the type of renewable available.  You still need a certain economy of scale to justify the cost.  Otherwise, it smells of Chairman Mao's Great Leap Forward where every peasant family had an iron smelter in their back yard that produced crap iron.
               
                Bottom line, we are dealing with a problem of distribution, not generation.
              -----Original Message-----
              From: Steven Shepard [mailto:sbtdesigns@...]
              Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2003 8:48 PM
              To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [hreg] Grid revisions

              If you need material for a letter to a politician you are welcome to the following:
               
              On Thursday, August 14, 2003 the northeastern and mid-western US experienced the largest blackout in this country's history. 
              Mass transit systems ground to a halt, oil refineries were forced to shut down, the FAA stopped flights into airports, nuclear
              reactors were taken off-line, and millions were left without power.  The blackouts affected approximately 50 million people over a
              9300-square-mile area.  New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg told reporters, "All of a sudden, a few things weren't working
              and then you realized how dependent we are on electricity."
               
              These events cascaded out of control because the electric utility grid was stressed by air-conditioning demand from the summer
              heat.  Almost the entire US was at temperatures near or above 90 degrees.  Because of the enormous energy load it did not take
              much of a trigger to send the energy delivery system down. 
               
              As one should expect during hot weather, the solar resource of this nation was excellent and nearly ideal in most of the stressed
              regions of this country.  A more widely dispersed base of solar energy could have reduced the overall delivery system stress and
              lowered the risk of catastrophic failure.  Thursday's blackouts are a wake-up call, reminding us that North America's electrical
              grid is a dysfunctional patchwork system that requires dramatic changes.  Rising electricity consumption and costs are significant
              factors in the instability of the grid. 
               
              Yet, energy saving products and technologies are widely available.  More efficient appliances, lights, better constructed buildings,
              and various forms or renewable energy such as solar and wind power can dramatically reduce the amount of electricity we draw
              from the electric utility grid at large.  In most cases these energy saving technologies can save money both in the short and long
              term.  Renewable energy is a sustainable product and service that we all need now.
               
              It is incumbent upon myself and my business as a renewable energy vendor to take this opportunity to write and shout about the
              benefits of renewable energy while electricity is on the mind of the public and the press.  We can improve the electricity
              generation and distribution system and help avoid blackouts by using less electricity and producing power independently using
              renewable energy such as solar and wind power.
               
              Now is the time for America to commit to using less electricity and to speeding the installation of distributed energy systems, such as rooftop solar power systems, fuel cells, and small wind energy power systems.  Not only would this decrease the likelihood of
              future blackouts, but it would slow global warming and reduce air pollution.
               
              If everyone in our community were to replace one of their old inefficient appliances or cars with a new energy efficient one, we
              could significantly reduce our reliance on foreign oil and the electric utility grid.  This would help avoid blackouts such as the one
              that recently affected 50 million people.
               
              The solar panels on our office that make up our independent power system provide clean, reliable electricity that doesn't contribute
              to blackouts and helps to conserve our nation's energy resources.
               
              Steve Shepard
              SBT Designs
              25840 IH-10 West #1
              Boerne, Texas 78006
              210-698-7109
              FAX: 210-698-7147
              www.sbtdesigns.com
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2003 8:31 PM
              Subject: [hreg] Grid revisions

              In light of the Blackout in the Northeast, politicians may be sensitive to related issues.  Now would be a good time to write your congressman and request that renewable energy be part of any Grid upgrade.  Many of the nations potential wind sites need to have grid connection.  Question.  Would the black-out have been as severe if there was more wind power on the grid?  Are wind farms less susceptible to power failures?
               
              -Chris


              Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


              Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


              Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


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            • Ooi, Han
              Only renewable power I could think of for the scenario I outlined is a family of four eating several big meals of baked beans and burritos. LOL ... From:
              Message 6 of 13 , Aug 18, 2003
              • 0 Attachment
                Only renewable power I could think of for the scenario I outlined is a family of four eating several big meals of baked beans and burritos.  LOL
                -----Original Message-----
                From: Steven Shepard [mailto:sbtdesigns@...]
                Sent: Monday, August 18, 2003 2:41 PM
                To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [hreg] Grid revisions

                Oh, I could think of something if the money was right.
                 
                SBT Designs
                25840 IH-10 West #1
                Boerne, Texas 78006
                210-698-7109
                FAX: 210-698-7147
                www.sbtdesigns.com
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Ooi, Han
                Sent: Monday, August 18, 2003 2:10 PM
                Subject: RE: [hreg] Grid revisions

                Checked out your web site.
                 
                Didn't find any product that would help a New Yorker living on an old second floor, north facing apartment in a 20 story highrise surrounded by other 20 story highrises on all four sides.  Do you know of any other company who would carry a renewable distributed power product that can pump out 1kW/hour of sustain power 24/7?  Oh, and the product must not be an eyesore and violate any zoning/deed restrictions.
                -----Original Message-----
                From: Steven Shepard [mailto:sbtdesigns@...]
                Sent: Monday, August 18, 2003 1:56 PM
                To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [hreg] Grid revisions

                Actually, I am quite certain that the folks up north who huddled in the dark of their unpowered homes smelling their food spoil in the refrigeration would be very glad to have some type back up power supply on their home.  Solar and wind power systems are an example of distributed power. 
                 
                SBT Designs
                25840 IH-10 West #1
                Boerne, Texas 78006
                210-698-7109
                FAX: 210-698-7147
                www.sbtdesigns.com
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Ooi, Han
                Sent: Monday, August 18, 2003 4:14 AM
                Subject: RE: [hreg] Grid revisions

                Well,
                   I highly doubt solar energy would have done anything for the blackouts in the Midwest and Northeast without an upgraded transmission and distribution system.  If you have ever looked at a solar energy map, the part of the USA that receives the most solar radiation is the Southwest (200 to 250 Watts per square meter on average anually).  Only in that region do you receive enough sun throughout the year to more likely recoup your investment in solar.
                 
                  A more realistic solution that won't get you laughed out of your congressman's office is to propose an advanced fully upgraded national transmission grid that links a diverse set of electric generation sources including renewables such as solar, wind, hydro, and geo.  This way renewable energy that is generated in areas that are abundant in one type of renewable energy can transmit it to an area that is poor in renewable energy.
                 
                  As for the proposal for distributed micro generation, it would be feasible in some areas but not in others again depending on the type of renewable available.  You still need a certain economy of scale to justify the cost.  Otherwise, it smells of Chairman Mao's Great Leap Forward where every peasant family had an iron smelter in their back yard that produced crap iron.
                 
                  Bottom line, we are dealing with a problem of distribution, not generation.
                -----Original Message-----
                From: Steven Shepard [mailto:sbtdesigns@...]
                Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2003 8:48 PM
                To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [hreg] Grid revisions

                If you need material for a letter to a politician you are welcome to the following:
                 
                On Thursday, August 14, 2003 the northeastern and mid-western US experienced the largest blackout in this country's history. 
                Mass transit systems ground to a halt, oil refineries were forced to shut down, the FAA stopped flights into airports, nuclear
                reactors were taken off-line, and millions were left without power.  The blackouts affected approximately 50 million people over a
                9300-square-mile area.  New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg told reporters, "All of a sudden, a few things weren't working
                and then you realized how dependent we are on electricity."
                 
                These events cascaded out of control because the electric utility grid was stressed by air-conditioning demand from the summer
                heat.  Almost the entire US was at temperatures near or above 90 degrees.  Because of the enormous energy load it did not take
                much of a trigger to send the energy delivery system down. 
                 
                As one should expect during hot weather, the solar resource of this nation was excellent and nearly ideal in most of the stressed
                regions of this country.  A more widely dispersed base of solar energy could have reduced the overall delivery system stress and
                lowered the risk of catastrophic failure.  Thursday's blackouts are a wake-up call, reminding us that North America's electrical
                grid is a dysfunctional patchwork system that requires dramatic changes.  Rising electricity consumption and costs are significant
                factors in the instability of the grid. 
                 
                Yet, energy saving products and technologies are widely available.  More efficient appliances, lights, better constructed buildings,
                and various forms or renewable energy such as solar and wind power can dramatically reduce the amount of electricity we draw
                from the electric utility grid at large.  In most cases these energy saving technologies can save money both in the short and long
                term.  Renewable energy is a sustainable product and service that we all need now.
                 
                It is incumbent upon myself and my business as a renewable energy vendor to take this opportunity to write and shout about the
                benefits of renewable energy while electricity is on the mind of the public and the press.  We can improve the electricity
                generation and distribution system and help avoid blackouts by using less electricity and producing power independently using
                renewable energy such as solar and wind power.
                 
                Now is the time for America to commit to using less electricity and to speeding the installation of distributed energy systems, such as rooftop solar power systems, fuel cells, and small wind energy power systems.  Not only would this decrease the likelihood of
                future blackouts, but it would slow global warming and reduce air pollution.
                 
                If everyone in our community were to replace one of their old inefficient appliances or cars with a new energy efficient one, we
                could significantly reduce our reliance on foreign oil and the electric utility grid.  This would help avoid blackouts such as the one
                that recently affected 50 million people.
                 
                The solar panels on our office that make up our independent power system provide clean, reliable electricity that doesn't contribute
                to blackouts and helps to conserve our nation's energy resources.
                 
                Steve Shepard
                SBT Designs
                25840 IH-10 West #1
                Boerne, Texas 78006
                210-698-7109
                FAX: 210-698-7147
                www.sbtdesigns.com
                ----- Original Message -----
                Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2003 8:31 PM
                Subject: [hreg] Grid revisions

                In light of the Blackout in the Northeast, politicians may be sensitive to related issues.  Now would be a good time to write your congressman and request that renewable energy be part of any Grid upgrade.  Many of the nations potential wind sites need to have grid connection.  Question.  Would the black-out have been as severe if there was more wind power on the grid?  Are wind farms less susceptible to power failures?
                 
                -Chris


                Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


                Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


                Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


                Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


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              • Paul Archer
                Reminds me of the 82 world s fair in Tennessee. The theme was power, and the Chinese exhibit showed how in rural areas methane was tapped from compost heaps
                Message 7 of 13 , Aug 18, 2003
                • 0 Attachment
                  Reminds me of the '82 world's fair in Tennessee. The theme was power, and
                  the Chinese exhibit showed how in rural areas methane was tapped from
                  compost heaps to light lamps and stoves in farmers' homes.
                  As I recall, the Chinese exhibit was the most popular one at the fair: they
                  had the good sense to put the actual energy-related stuff in one corner of
                  their exhibit, and filled the rest with cultural artifacts. Proving, I
                  guess, that people aren't really interested in energy if they don't have to
                  be (like when they're in the middle of a massive blackout).

                  Paul



                  4:38pm, Ooi, Han wrote:

                  > Only renewable power I could think of for the scenario I outlined is a
                  > family of four eating several big meals of baked beans and burritos. LOL
                  >
                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: Steven Shepard [mailto:sbtdesigns@...]
                  > Sent: Monday, August 18, 2003 2:41 PM
                  > To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: Re: [hreg] Grid revisions
                  >
                  >
                  > Oh, I could think of something if the money was right.
                  >
                  > SBT Designs
                  > 25840 IH-10 West #1
                  > Boerne, Texas 78006
                  > 210-698-7109
                  > FAX: 210-698-7147
                  > www.sbtdesigns.com
                  >
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: Ooi, Han <mailto:Han.Ooi@...>
                  > To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                  > Sent: Monday, August 18, 2003 2:10 PM
                  > Subject: RE: [hreg] Grid revisions
                  >
                  > Checked out your web site.
                  >
                  > Didn't find any product that would help a New Yorker living on an old second floor, north facing apartment in a 20 story highrise surrounded by other 20 story highrises on all four sides. Do you know of any other company who would carry a renewable distributed power product that can pump out 1kW/hour of sustain power 24/7? Oh, and the product must not be an eyesore and violate any zoning/deed restrictions.
                  >
                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: Steven Shepard [mailto:sbtdesigns@...]
                  > Sent: Monday, August 18, 2003 1:56 PM
                  > To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: Re: [hreg] Grid revisions
                  >
                  >
                  > Actually, I am quite certain that the folks up north who huddled in the dark of their unpowered homes smelling their food spoil in the refrigeration would be very glad to have some type back up power supply on their home. Solar and wind power systems are an example of distributed power.
                  >
                  > SBT Designs
                  > 25840 IH-10 West #1
                  > Boerne, Texas 78006
                  > 210-698-7109
                  > FAX: 210-698-7147
                  > www.sbtdesigns.com
                  >
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: Ooi, <mailto:Han.Ooi@...> Han
                  > To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                  > Sent: Monday, August 18, 2003 4:14 AM
                  > Subject: RE: [hreg] Grid revisions
                  >
                  > Well,
                  > I highly doubt solar energy would have done anything for the blackouts in the Midwest and Northeast without an upgraded transmission and distribution system. If you have ever looked at a solar energy map, the part of the USA that receives the most solar radiation is the Southwest (200 to 250 Watts per square meter on average anually). Only in that region do you receive enough sun throughout the year to more likely recoup your investment in solar.
                  >
                  > A more realistic solution that won't get you laughed out of your congressman's office is to propose an advanced fully upgraded national transmission grid that links a diverse set of electric generation sources including renewables such as solar, wind, hydro, and geo. This way renewable energy that is generated in areas that are abundant in one type of renewable energy can transmit it to an area that is poor in renewable energy.
                  >
                  > As for the proposal for distributed micro generation, it would be feasible in some areas but not in others again depending on the type of renewable available. You still need a certain economy of scale to justify the cost. Otherwise, it smells of Chairman Mao's Great Leap Forward where every peasant family had an iron smelter in their back yard that produced crap iron.
                  >
                  > Bottom line, we are dealing with a problem of distribution, not generation.
                  >
                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: Steven Shepard [mailto:sbtdesigns@...]
                  > Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2003 8:48 PM
                  > To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: Re: [hreg] Grid revisions
                  >
                  >
                  > If you need material for a letter to a politician you are welcome to the following:
                  >
                  > On Thursday, August 14, 2003 the northeastern and mid-western US experienced the largest blackout in this country's history.
                  > Mass transit systems ground to a halt, oil refineries were forced to shut down, the FAA stopped flights into airports, nuclear
                  > reactors were taken off-line, and millions were left without power. The blackouts affected approximately 50 million people over a
                  > 9300-square-mile area. New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg told reporters, "All of a sudden, a few things weren't working
                  > and then you realized how dependent we are on electricity."
                  >
                  > These events cascaded out of control because the electric utility grid was stressed by air-conditioning demand from the summer
                  > heat. Almost the entire US was at temperatures near or above 90 degrees. Because of the enormous energy load it did not take
                  > much of a trigger to send the energy delivery system down.
                  >
                  > As one should expect during hot weather, the solar resource of this nation was excellent and nearly ideal in most of the stressed
                  > regions of this country. A more widely dispersed base of solar energy could have reduced the overall delivery system stress and
                  > lowered the risk of catastrophic failure. Thursday's blackouts are a wake-up call, reminding us that North America's electrical
                  > grid is a dysfunctional patchwork system that requires dramatic changes. Rising electricity consumption and costs are significant
                  > factors in the instability of the grid.
                  >
                  > Yet, energy saving products and technologies are widely available. More efficient appliances, lights, better constructed buildings,
                  > and various forms or renewable energy such as solar and wind power can dramatically reduce the amount of electricity we draw
                  > from the electric utility grid at large. In most cases these energy saving technologies can save money both in the short and long
                  > term. Renewable energy is a sustainable product and service that we all need now.
                  >
                  > It is incumbent upon myself and my business as a renewable energy vendor to take this opportunity to write and shout about the
                  > benefits of renewable energy while electricity is on the mind of the public and the press. We can improve the electricity
                  > generation and distribution system and help avoid blackouts by using less electricity and producing power independently using
                  > renewable energy such as solar and wind power.
                  >
                  > Now is the time for America to commit to using less electricity and to speeding the installation of distributed energy systems, such as rooftop solar power systems, fuel cells, and small wind energy power systems. Not only would this decrease the likelihood of
                  > future blackouts, but it would slow global warming and reduce air pollution.
                  >
                  > If everyone in our community were to replace one of their old inefficient appliances or cars with a new energy efficient one, we
                  > could significantly reduce our reliance on foreign oil and the electric utility grid. This would help avoid blackouts such as the one
                  > that recently affected 50 million people.
                  >
                  > The solar panels on our office that make up our independent power system provide clean, reliable electricity that doesn't contribute
                  > to blackouts and helps to conserve our nation's energy resources.
                  >
                  > Steve Shepard
                  > SBT Designs
                  > 25840 IH-10 West #1
                  > Boerne, Texas 78006
                  > 210-698-7109
                  > FAX: 210-698-7147
                  > www.sbtdesigns.com
                  >
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: Roxanne Boyer <mailto:rox1@...>
                  > To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                  > Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2003 8:31 PM
                  > Subject: [hreg] Grid revisions
                  >
                  > In light of the Blackout in the Northeast, politicians may be sensitive to related issues. Now would be a good time to write your congressman and request that renewable energy be part of any Grid upgrade. Many of the nations potential wind sites need to have grid connection. Question. Would the black-out have been as severe if there was more wind power on the grid? Are wind farms less susceptible to power failures?
                  >
                  > -Chris
                  >
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Service.
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                  >
                  >
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                  -------------------------------------
                  O give me a home,
                  Where the buffalo roam,
                  Where the deer and the antelope play,
                  Where seldom is heard
                  A discouraging word,
                  'Cause what can an antelope say?
                  -------------------------------------
                • Michael Christie
                  Now there is a good solution to the question of a product that would help a New Yorker living on an old second floor, north facing apartment in a 20 story
                  Message 8 of 13 , Aug 18, 2003
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Now there is a good solution to the question of a "product that would help a
                    New Yorker living on an old second floor, north facing apartment in a 20
                    story highrise surrounded by other 20 story highrises on all four sides."
                    New York has plenty of garbage! A new market for home-sized methane
                    digesters!

                    Michael

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Paul Archer [mailto:tigger@...]
                    Sent: Monday, August 18, 2003 4:11 PM
                    To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: RE: [hreg] Grid revisions


                    Reminds me of the '82 world's fair in Tennessee. The theme was power, and
                    the Chinese exhibit showed how in rural areas methane was tapped from
                    compost heaps to light lamps and stoves in farmers' homes.
                    As I recall, the Chinese exhibit was the most popular one at the fair: they
                    had the good sense to put the actual energy-related stuff in one corner of
                    their exhibit, and filled the rest with cultural artifacts. Proving, I
                    guess, that people aren't really interested in energy if they don't have to
                    be (like when they're in the middle of a massive blackout).

                    Paul



                    4:38pm, Ooi, Han wrote:

                    > Only renewable power I could think of for the scenario I outlined is a
                    > family of four eating several big meals of baked beans and burritos. LOL
                    >
                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: Steven Shepard [mailto:sbtdesigns@...]
                    > Sent: Monday, August 18, 2003 2:41 PM
                    > To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: Re: [hreg] Grid revisions
                    >
                    >
                    > Oh, I could think of something if the money was right.
                    >
                    > SBT Designs
                    > 25840 IH-10 West #1
                    > Boerne, Texas 78006
                    > 210-698-7109
                    > FAX: 210-698-7147
                    > www.sbtdesigns.com
                    >
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: Ooi, Han <mailto:Han.Ooi@...>
                    > To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: Monday, August 18, 2003 2:10 PM
                    > Subject: RE: [hreg] Grid revisions
                    >
                    > Checked out your web site.
                    >
                    > Didn't find any product that would help a New Yorker living on an old
                    second floor, north facing apartment in a 20 story highrise surrounded by
                    other 20 story highrises on all four sides. Do you know of any other
                    company who would carry a renewable distributed power product that can pump
                    out 1kW/hour of sustain power 24/7? Oh, and the product must not be an
                    eyesore and violate any zoning/deed restrictions.
                    >
                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: Steven Shepard [mailto:sbtdesigns@...]
                    > Sent: Monday, August 18, 2003 1:56 PM
                    > To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: Re: [hreg] Grid revisions
                    >
                    >
                    > Actually, I am quite certain that the folks up north who huddled in the
                    dark of their unpowered homes smelling their food spoil in the refrigeration
                    would be very glad to have some type back up power supply on their home.
                    Solar and wind power systems are an example of distributed power.
                    >
                    > SBT Designs
                    > 25840 IH-10 West #1
                    > Boerne, Texas 78006
                    > 210-698-7109
                    > FAX: 210-698-7147
                    > www.sbtdesigns.com
                    >
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: Ooi, <mailto:Han.Ooi@...> Han
                    > To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: Monday, August 18, 2003 4:14 AM
                    > Subject: RE: [hreg] Grid revisions
                    >
                    > Well,
                    > I highly doubt solar energy would have done anything for the blackouts
                    in the Midwest and Northeast without an upgraded transmission and
                    distribution system. If you have ever looked at a solar energy map, the
                    part of the USA that receives the most solar radiation is the Southwest (200
                    to 250 Watts per square meter on average anually). Only in that region do
                    you receive enough sun throughout the year to more likely recoup your
                    investment in solar.
                    >
                    > A more realistic solution that won't get you laughed out of your
                    congressman's office is to propose an advanced fully upgraded national
                    transmission grid that links a diverse set of electric generation sources
                    including renewables such as solar, wind, hydro, and geo. This way
                    renewable energy that is generated in areas that are abundant in one type of
                    renewable energy can transmit it to an area that is poor in renewable
                    energy.
                    >
                    > As for the proposal for distributed micro generation, it would be
                    feasible in some areas but not in others again depending on the type of
                    renewable available. You still need a certain economy of scale to justify
                    the cost. Otherwise, it smells of Chairman Mao's Great Leap Forward where
                    every peasant family had an iron smelter in their back yard that produced
                    crap iron.
                    >
                    > Bottom line, we are dealing with a problem of distribution, not
                    generation.
                    >
                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: Steven Shepard [mailto:sbtdesigns@...]
                    > Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2003 8:48 PM
                    > To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: Re: [hreg] Grid revisions
                    >
                    >
                    > If you need material for a letter to a politician you are welcome to the
                    following:
                    >
                    > On Thursday, August 14, 2003 the northeastern and mid-western US
                    experienced the largest blackout in this country's history.
                    > Mass transit systems ground to a halt, oil refineries were forced to shut
                    down, the FAA stopped flights into airports, nuclear
                    > reactors were taken off-line, and millions were left without power. The
                    blackouts affected approximately 50 million people over a
                    > 9300-square-mile area. New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg told
                    reporters, "All of a sudden, a few things weren't working
                    > and then you realized how dependent we are on electricity."
                    >
                    > These events cascaded out of control because the electric utility grid was
                    stressed by air-conditioning demand from the summer
                    > heat. Almost the entire US was at temperatures near or above 90 degrees.
                    Because of the enormous energy load it did not take
                    > much of a trigger to send the energy delivery system down.
                    >
                    > As one should expect during hot weather, the solar resource of this nation
                    was excellent and nearly ideal in most of the stressed
                    > regions of this country. A more widely dispersed base of solar energy
                    could have reduced the overall delivery system stress and
                    > lowered the risk of catastrophic failure. Thursday's blackouts are a
                    wake-up call, reminding us that North America's electrical
                    > grid is a dysfunctional patchwork system that requires dramatic changes.
                    Rising electricity consumption and costs are significant
                    > factors in the instability of the grid.
                    >
                    > Yet, energy saving products and technologies are widely available. More
                    efficient appliances, lights, better constructed buildings,
                    > and various forms or renewable energy such as solar and wind power can
                    dramatically reduce the amount of electricity we draw
                    > from the electric utility grid at large. In most cases these energy
                    saving technologies can save money both in the short and long
                    > term. Renewable energy is a sustainable product and service that we all
                    need now.
                    >
                    > It is incumbent upon myself and my business as a renewable energy vendor
                    to take this opportunity to write and shout about the
                    > benefits of renewable energy while electricity is on the mind of the
                    public and the press. We can improve the electricity
                    > generation and distribution system and help avoid blackouts by using less
                    electricity and producing power independently using
                    > renewable energy such as solar and wind power.
                    >
                    > Now is the time for America to commit to using less electricity and to
                    speeding the installation of distributed energy systems, such as rooftop
                    solar power systems, fuel cells, and small wind energy power systems. Not
                    only would this decrease the likelihood of
                    > future blackouts, but it would slow global warming and reduce air
                    pollution.
                    >
                    > If everyone in our community were to replace one of their old inefficient
                    appliances or cars with a new energy efficient one, we
                    > could significantly reduce our reliance on foreign oil and the electric
                    utility grid. This would help avoid blackouts such as the one
                    > that recently affected 50 million people.
                    >
                    > The solar panels on our office that make up our independent power system
                    provide clean, reliable electricity that doesn't contribute
                    > to blackouts and helps to conserve our nation's energy resources.
                    >
                    > Steve Shepard
                    > SBT Designs
                    > 25840 IH-10 West #1
                    > Boerne, Texas 78006
                    > 210-698-7109
                    > FAX: 210-698-7147
                    > www.sbtdesigns.com
                    >
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: Roxanne Boyer <mailto:rox1@...>
                    > To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2003 8:31 PM
                    > Subject: [hreg] Grid revisions
                    >
                    > In light of the Blackout in the Northeast, politicians may be sensitive to
                    related issues. Now would be a good time to write your congressman and
                    request that renewable energy be part of any Grid upgrade. Many of the
                    nations potential wind sites need to have grid connection. Question. Would
                    the black-out have been as severe if there was more wind power on the grid?
                    Are wind farms less susceptible to power failures?
                    >
                    > -Chris
                    >
                    >
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                    -------------------------------------
                    O give me a home,
                    Where the buffalo roam,
                    Where the deer and the antelope play,
                    Where seldom is heard
                    A discouraging word,
                    'Cause what can an antelope say?
                    -------------------------------------




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                  • Jim & Janet Duncan
                    Han wrote: If you have ever looked at a solar energy map, the part of the USA that receives the most solar radiation is the Southwest (200 to 250 Watts per
                    Message 9 of 13 , Aug 18, 2003
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Han wrote:
                      If you have ever looked at a solar energy map, the part of the USA that receives the most solar radiation is the Southwest (200 to 250 Watts per square meter on average anually
                      Yes it's true the sun shines more hours in the south than up north, it still shines there.
                      According to the NREL, the amount of sun in Houston vs.the amount of sun in NYC is:
                      "Solar radiation for 1-axis tracking flat-plate collectors with a N-S axis (kWh/m2/day)"
                      NYC average for 1 year with the PV array tilted to Lat. 40.78 N = 5.6  kWh/m2/day
                      Houston average for 1 year with the PV array tilted to Lat. 29.98 N = 6.0  kWh/m2/day
                      Fort Worth average for 1 year with the PV array tilted to Lat. 29.98 N = 6.9  kWh/m2/day
                      Go figure.
                      The concept of Distributed Generation is what makes the difference. Having PV systems working during the day, say at 10,000 homes in the state of NY, the power NOT taken from the grid during the 'peak load' hours is equal to the amount that is used from the 10,000 systems. Say 10kW per day.
                      When all those folks come home from work and turn on the stuff that runs off their system, there is that much less demand on the grid. Even if the homeowners only use 5 kW of that power during the peak use time and into the evening, that's a tenth of a megawatt. Probably not enough to stop the blackout from happening, but enough to make a difference in the big picture.
                      Anyway, overload wasn't the cause. FirstEnergy had a history of bad management, poor maintainance and was the company that owns the nuclear reactor that was shut down because the boric acid had eaten thru the 6 in steel plate in the reactor core earlier this year.
                      Jim Duncan
                      North Texas Renewable Energy Inc.
                      Fort Worth
                    • John Miggins
                      Good point, I wonder who owns the transmission grid? Is it not private enterprise, the utilities although regulated they are a for profit enterprises that
                      Message 10 of 13 , Aug 18, 2003
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Good point, I wonder who owns the transmission grid?  Is it not private enterprise, the utilities although regulated they are a for profit enterprises that should have to maintain their own "Assets".  I would look for the usual political hay about this to get some porkbarrel projects put through or drilling in Alaska.  Only by having truly localized and distributed power will we ever be free.  this not need be a large system, in fact a homeowner in NY could invest a few hundred dollars in batteries and a charger and inverter that is charged by the grid but there when it goes down for key circuits like lighting, refrig. etc...
                         
                        This could be coupled with solar panels if wanted but not necessary.    Just a thought.
                         
                        I have a similiar system the Solar Harvester that is portable and quite good.
                         
                        Good discussion.
                         
                        John Miggins
                        Harvest Solar and Wind Power
                        1571 East 22 Place
                        Tulsa, OK 74114
                        918-743-2299 phone/fax
                        918-809-7223 cell
                         
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        Sent: Monday, August 18, 2003 12:32 PM
                        Subject: RE: [hreg] Grid revisions

                        I agree with your comments about the blackout being a distribution problem.
                         
                        According to what I have been told, Texas has it's own relatively isolated grid system. It seems to me that if congress should decide to fund upgrading of the northwestern grid or, as you suggest, a fully upgraded system, we here in Texas would end up paying for something we may not need. Does anyone know just how good the Texas system is? I know that it is not adequate to transmit all the wind farm production from northwest Texas, and there is a project to build more lines for that purpose. Rebuilding the grid system in the Northwest is going to be a hugely expensive enterprise.
                         
                        Michael
                         
                         -----Original Message-----
                        From: Ooi, Han [mailto:Han.Ooi@...]
                        Sent: Monday, August 18, 2003 4:14 AM
                        To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: RE: [hreg] Grid revisions

                        Well,
                           I highly doubt solar energy would have done anything for the blackouts in the Midwest and Northeast without an upgraded transmission and distribution system.  If you have ever looked at a solar energy map, the part of the USA that receives the most solar radiation is the Southwest (200 to 250 Watts per square meter on average anually).  Only in that region do you receive enough sun throughout the year to more likely recoup your investment in solar.
                         
                          A more realistic solution that won't get you laughed out of your congressman's office is to propose an advanced fully upgraded national transmission grid that links a diverse set of electric generation sources including renewables such as solar, wind, hydro, and geo.  This way renewable energy that is generated in areas that are abundant in one type of renewable energy can transmit it to an area that is poor in renewable energy.
                         
                          As for the proposal for distributed micro generation, it would be feasible in some areas but not in others again depending on the type of renewable available.  You still need a certain economy of scale to justify the cost.  Otherwise, it smells of Chairman Mao's Great Leap Forward where every peasant family had an iron smelter in their back yard that produced crap iron.
                         
                          Bottom line, we are dealing with a problem of distribution, not generation.
                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: Steven Shepard [mailto:sbtdesigns@...]
                        Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2003 8:48 PM
                        To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [hreg] Grid revisions

                        If you need material for a letter to a politician you are welcome to the following:
                         
                        On Thursday, August 14, 2003 the northeastern and mid-western US experienced the largest blackout in this country's history. 
                        Mass transit systems ground to a halt, oil refineries were forced to shut down, the FAA stopped flights into airports, nuclear
                        reactors were taken off-line, and millions were left without power.  The blackouts affected approximately 50 million people over a
                        9300-square-mile area.  New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg told reporters, "All of a sudden, a few things weren't working
                        and then you realized how dependent we are on electricity."
                         
                        These events cascaded out of control because the electric utility grid was stressed by air-conditioning demand from the summer
                        heat.  Almost the entire US was at temperatures near or above 90 degrees.  Because of the enormous energy load it did not take
                        much of a trigger to send the energy delivery system down. 
                         
                        As one should expect during hot weather, the solar resource of this nation was excellent and nearly ideal in most of the stressed
                        regions of this country.  A more widely dispersed base of solar energy could have reduced the overall delivery system stress and
                        lowered the risk of catastrophic failure.  Thursday's blackouts are a wake-up call, reminding us that North America's electrical
                        grid is a dysfunctional patchwork system that requires dramatic changes.  Rising electricity consumption and costs are significant
                        factors in the instability of the grid. 
                         
                        Yet, energy saving products and technologies are widely available.  More efficient appliances, lights, better constructed buildings,
                        and various forms or renewable energy such as solar and wind power can dramatically reduce the amount of electricity we draw
                        from the electric utility grid at large.  In most cases these energy saving technologies can save money both in the short and long
                        term.  Renewable energy is a sustainable product and service that we all need now.
                         
                        It is incumbent upon myself and my business as a renewable energy vendor to take this opportunity to write and shout about the
                        benefits of renewable energy while electricity is on the mind of the public and the press.  We can improve the electricity
                        generation and distribution system and help avoid blackouts by using less electricity and producing power independently using
                        renewable energy such as solar and wind power.
                         
                        Now is the time for America to commit to using less electricity and to speeding the installation of distributed energy systems, such as rooftop solar power systems, fuel cells, and small wind energy power systems.  Not only would this decrease the likelihood of
                        future blackouts, but it would slow global warming and reduce air pollution.
                         
                        If everyone in our community were to replace one of their old inefficient appliances or cars with a new energy efficient one, we
                        could significantly reduce our reliance on foreign oil and the electric utility grid.  This would help avoid blackouts such as the one
                        that recently affected 50 million people.
                         
                        The solar panels on our office that make up our independent power system provide clean, reliable electricity that doesn't contribute
                        to blackouts and helps to conserve our nation's energy resources.
                         
                        Steve Shepard
                        SBT Designs
                        25840 IH-10 West #1
                        Boerne, Texas 78006
                        210-698-7109
                        FAX: 210-698-7147
                        www.sbtdesigns.com
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2003 8:31 PM
                        Subject: [hreg] Grid revisions

                        In light of the Blackout in the Northeast, politicians may be sensitive to related issues.  Now would be a good time to write your congressman and request that renewable energy be part of any Grid upgrade.  Many of the nations potential wind sites need to have grid connection.  Question.  Would the black-out have been as severe if there was more wind power on the grid?  Are wind farms less susceptible to power failures?
                         
                        -Chris


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