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And speaking of Green Mountain...

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  • chasmauch@aol.com
    .... reminds me of the continuing problem about GM. I think we have had some discussion of GM on this listserv and at our meetings but don t recall if we came
    Message 1 of 11 , May 14, 2003
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      .... reminds me of the continuing problem about GM. I think we have had some discussion of GM on this listserv and at our meetings but don't recall if we came to any conclusions. I am a member of the Green Party and we have also had extensive discussions about GM on our various listserves and at meetings over an extended period of time. We still have not reached consensus about them, but it keeps coming up and remains a source of controversy. Some people insist that everyone should switch their provider to GM, but others say they are a scam and a rip-off who do not do many of the things they claim they do.

      Much of the objection comes from the www.boycottGreenMountain.com website where all kinds of claims are made about why you should not do business with GM.
      I have done some research on this and plan to do more, but have come to the tentative conclusion that most of the claims can be explained away or rationalized. I guess there are two choices: either each person does their own research (approaches a probability of zero) or must find a knowledgeable expert they trust and take their word for it. I have spoken with Tom "Smitty" Smith with Public Citizen in Austin (originally a Nader organization) and they admit that while there may be problems in other states, we live in Texas and as far as they can see GM does get all their energy here from wind and they recommend that we switch to GM.

      I don't want to reopen this can of worms and increase the traffic on this listserv too much (although it has been pretty quiet lately) but also would prefer to avoid reinventing the wheel on this research so if anyone has any pertinent information on this I would appreciate your advising me of it. Thanks.

      Charlie
    • Robert Johnston
      The Texas Public Utility Commission (PUC) regulates Texas utilities, and the www.powertochoose.com website is a place where
      Message 2 of 11 , May 14, 2003
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        The Texas Public Utility Commission (PUC) regulates Texas utilities, and the www.powertochoose.com website is a place where each energy provider’s key information is published.  As a politician, Charlie probably has a better notion of all this than I do, but I believe the Electricity Facts Label that each company provides contains information that is part of a legal disclosure by the company, and if they are providing the PUC with false information, they would be in deep legal trouble.  E.g., it is more than just a matter of misleading a few Greens; they’d be heading for jail or major fines.  So, assuming that I can therefore trust the PUC’s published information, and assuming that all those new wind farms out in W. Texas aren’t just there to wave to travelers on I-10 or to knock out birds, I think it would be safe to trust the Green Mountain Electricity Facts Label that says their energy sources are 100% renewable.  

         

        But I suspect that if there is a lot of internet chatter on this matter (as Charlie reports), there have probably been a lot of phone calls and letters etc. to the PUC about it and one could readily call them to check.  Maybe a rash of such inquiries is what prompted them to add a new feature to the Powertochoose comparison tables that I saw when I just checked them that I haven’t seen before.  There is now a column headed “Eco Info”.  If you click the heading you’ll see the following information:

        Eco Info on Power Content

        Certain offers are considered green because they meet the standards of certain reputable organizations. For example, the Green-E label of the non-profit Center For Resource Solutions certifies that the product comes from at least 50% renewable resources, defined as solar, small hydroelectric, wind, biomass, and geothermal. The National Resources Defense Council (NRDC) also identifies energy offers they believe are Green offers. Click on the check button to review the power content label for the identified supplier's energy source.”

        Thus, there are some additional independent certifications from organizations that you may trust more than the claims of the company or the PUC publications.  In particular, if you do a comparison in our area, you’ll see that Green Mountain Energy has a checkmark in the column (the only company thus marked).  It is not stated which independent organization certified the company, but presumably this adds additional validity to their claims.

        I checked NRDC’s website (http://www.nrdc.org/air/energy/gcleanen.asp); they simply reference the CFRS program.  Here’s the link for CFRS’s Green-E label program as it pertains to Texashttp://www.green-e.org/your_e_choices/tx_home.html.  If you go there, you’ll see that they certify Greenpower as “100% wind/100% renewable/100% pollution-free”.

        It all makes me wonder why there is still doubt or speculation about this.  As Charlie says, maybe the questions only pertain to GM outside of Texas.

         

        BTW, Charlie, why don’t you Greens start a petition campaign for recall elections in the districts of all those runaway Democrats?  Since they presumably wouldn’t want to return to Texas to stand for election (since they’d be arrested and dragged kicking and screaming to the Texas House), maybe you could snag a few seats in the legislature!  ;-)

         

        Robert Johnston

         

         

         


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        -----Original Message-----
        From: chasmauch@... [mailto:chasmauch@...]
        Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2003 2:08 PM
        To:
        hreg@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [hreg] And speaking of Green Mountain...

         

        .... reminds me of the continuing problem about GM. I think we have had some discussion of GM on this listserv and at our meetings but don't recall if we came to any conclusions. I am a member of the Green Party and we have also had extensive discussions about GM on our various listserves and at meetings over an extended period of time. We still have not reached consensus about them, but it keeps coming up and remains a source of controversy. Some people insist that everyone should switch their provider to GM, but others say they are a scam and a rip-off who do not do many of the things they claim they do.

        Much of the objection comes from the www.boycottGreenMountain.com website where all kinds of claims are made about why you should not do business with GM.
        I have done some research on this and plan to do more, but have come to the tentative conclusion that most of the claims can be explained away or rationalized. I guess there are two choices: either each person does their own research (approaches a probability of zero) or must find a knowledgeable expert they trust and take their word for it. I have spoken with Tom "Smitty" Smith with Public Citizen in Austin (originally a Nader organization) and they admit that while there may be problems in other states, we live in Texas and as far as they can see GM does get all their energy here from wind and they recommend that we switch to GM.

        I don't want to reopen this can of worms and increase the traffic on this listserv too much (although it has been pretty quiet lately) but also would prefer to avoid reinventing the wheel on this research so if anyone has any pertinent information on this I would appreciate your advising me of it. Thanks.

        Charlie



        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
      • Randy Scott
        I m in the process of buying a home, just got the word this week that my bid was accepted, haven t closed yet. I called up GME to ask about getting my account
        Message 3 of 11 , May 15, 2003
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          I’m in the process of buying a home, just got the word this week that my bid was accepted, haven’t closed yet.

          I called up GME to ask about getting my account moved from my rented house to my new home, set the dates & all that.

           

          They tell me they have 3 different “packages”:

          For 10.23 cents (per KwH?) you pay monthly with no locked in rates for a combination of solar generated and hydro-electric generated power (they say, I don’t know how to prove if it’s true).

          For 10.43 cents they will lock-in that rate for the same generation source.

          For 10.63 cents they say you get 100% solar.

          Frankly, I don’t know why it should make a difference whether they are buying it from a solar farm or the dam.

           

          Significantly, the sales/customer-service bimbo on the phone did not mention wind, she specifically said solar.

           

          But, in addition to that, they offer you a golden opportunity to pay an extra $5 a month to, allegedly, help them build more solar facilities. I can’t help but wonder how much of it is only smoke & mirrors, but I guess I would rather buy from someone who uses SOME wind &/or solar VS those who do not.

           

          Randy Scott

           

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Robert Johnston [mailto:rjohnsto@...]
          Sent
          : Wednesday, May 14, 2003 6:36 PM
          To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: [hreg] And speaking of Green Mountain...

           

          The Texas Public Utility Commission (PUC) regulates Texas utilities, and the www.powertochoose.com website is a place where each energy provider’s key information is published.  As a politician, Charlie probably has a better notion of all this than I do, but I believe the Electricity Facts Label that each company provides contains information that is part of a legal disclosure by the company, and if they are providing the PUC with false information, they would be in deep legal trouble.  E.g., it is more than just a matter of misleading a few Greens; they’d be heading for jail or major fines.  So, assuming that I can therefore trust the PUC’s published information, and assuming that all those new wind farms out in W. Texas aren’t just there to wave to travelers on I-10 or to knock out birds, I think it would be safe to trust the Green Mountain Electricity Facts Label that says their energy sources are 100% renewable.  

           

          But I suspect that if there is a lot of internet chatter on this matter (as Charlie reports), there have probably been a lot of phone calls and letters etc. to the PUC about it and one could readily call them to check.  Maybe a rash of such inquiries is what prompted them to add a new feature to the Powertochoose comparison tables that I saw when I just checked them that I haven’t seen before.  There is now a column headed “Eco Info”.  If you click the heading you’ll see the following information:

          Eco Info on Power Content

          Certain offers are considered green because they meet the standards of certain reputable organizations. For example, the Green-E label of the non-profit Center For Resource Solutions certifies that the product comes from at least 50% renewable resources, defined as solar, small hydroelectric, wind, biomass, and geothermal. The National Resources Defense Council (NRDC) also identifies energy offers they believe are Green offers. Click on the check button to review the power content label for the identified supplier's energy source.”

          Thus, there are some additional independent certifications from organizations that you may trust more than the claims of the company or the PUC publications.  In particular, if you do a comparison in our area, you’ll see that Green Mountain Energy has a checkmark in the column (the only company thus marked).  It is not stated which independent organization certified the company, but presumably this adds additional validity to their claims.

          I checked NRDC’s website (http://www.nrdc.org/air/energy/gcleanen.asp); they simply reference the CFRS program.  Here’s the link for CFRS’s Green-E label program as it pertains to Texas:  http://www.green-e.org/your_e_choices/tx_home.html.  If you go there, you’ll see that they certify Greenpower as “100% wind/100% renewable/100% pollution-free”.

          It all makes me wonder why there is still doubt or speculation about this.  As Charlie says, maybe the questions only pertain to GM outside of Texas.

           

          BTW, Charlie, why don’t you Greens start a petition campaign for recall elections in the districts of all those runaway Democrats?  Since they presumably wouldn’t want to return to Texas to stand for election (since they’d be arrested and dragged kicking and screaming to the Texas House), maybe you could snag a few seats in the legislature!  ;-)

           

          Robert Johnston

           

           

           


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          -----Original Message-----
          From: chasmauch@... [mailto:chasmauch@...]
          Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2003 2:08 PM
          To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [hreg] And speaking of Green Mountain...

           

          .... reminds me of the continuing problem about GM. I think we have had some discussion of GM on this listserv and at our meetings but don't recall if we came to any conclusions. I am a member of the Green Party and we have also had extensive discussions about GM on our various listserves and at meetings over an extended period of time. We still have not reached consensus about them, but it keeps coming up and remains a source of controversy. Some people insist that everyone should switch their provider to GM, but others say they are a scam and a rip-off who do not do many of the things they claim they do.

          Much of the objection comes from the www.boycottGreenMountain.com website where all kinds of claims are made about why you should not do business with GM.
          I have done some research on this and plan to do more, but have come to the tentative conclusion that most of the claims can be explained away or rationalized. I guess there are two choices: either each person does their own research (approaches a probability of zero) or must find a knowledgeable expert they trust and take their word for it. I have spoken with Tom "Smitty" Smith with Public Citizen in Austin (originally a Nader organization) and they admit that while there may be problems in other states, we live in Texas and as far as they can see GM does get all their energy here from wind and they recommend that we switch to GM.

          I don't want to reopen this can of worms and increase the traffic on this listserv too much (although it has been pretty quiet lately) but also would prefer to avoid reinventing the wheel on this research so if anyone has any pertinent information on this I would appreciate your advising me of it. Thanks.

          Charlie


          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
        • Mike Wissink
          Folks, To understand how this market works, it is helpful to understand the energy grid. The energy that enters your house is from the transmission grid filled
          Message 4 of 11 , May 15, 2003
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            Folks,

            To understand how this market works, it is helpful to
            understand the energy grid.

            The energy that enters your house is from the
            transmission grid filled with energy from generating
            units. Generating units have to increase and decrease
            output in order to keep the grid stable. This is a
            mixture of units from renewable to fossil. Every
            single unit has abilities to generate energy.
            Renewable units generate energy when the conditions
            allow. (Sun shines, wind blows, rain falls) Fossil
            generation is more reliable in keeping the gird secure
            and makes up for most of the energy produced.
            Therefore, energy entering your house comes from many
            generation units. There is no way to track a single
            electron from a certain generator to a certain house.

            In Texas, renewable generation units are given
            Renewable Energy Credits (RECs) per megawatt of energy
            produced. This is not dependent on time the energy is
            created or the transmission constrains of getting it
            to your house or when your house uses it. All retail
            providers are required to purchase a certain percent
            (I think around 5%) of RECs for the energy consumed
            under their load. Green Mountain purchases RECs to
            cover the energy requirements for ALL of there load
            requirements. This is not dependent on the time the
            energy is created or the location of where the RECs
            are generated.

            Green Mountain PROMOTES renewable energy generation by
            getting more members under their contract load. By
            getting more members creates demand in the market
            place for renewable energy. This is the best
            alternative from the choices we have. (Remember who
            owns Green Mountain - BP)

            The only way to ensure that the energy you consume is
            renewable is to be off of the grid and produce energy
            yourself.

            Good luck in making your energy choice.

            Mike




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          • chasmauch@aol.com
            Mike, Thanks for that information and description of the grid. Of course it brings up other questions in my mind. Is there a marketplace where these Renewable
            Message 5 of 11 , May 15, 2003
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              Mike,
              Thanks for that information and description of the grid. Of course it brings up other questions in my mind. Is there a marketplace where these Renewable Energy Credits are swapped, traded, and prestidigitized in a deliberately complex, confusing, and mysterious manner, such as happens with natural gas and other items, and in which Enron and others were involved? It has recently come to light that most of the major "reputable" stock brokerage firms have been doing all kinds of illegal - criminal, actually - rigging of markets and ripping off of the public. The natural gas market has also recently been revealed as subject to scamming by unethical traders who submitted false prices and nonexistent sales to the market which then averaged them and established "market prices." Maybe I am a bit paranoid since the Enron fiasco but - given the past history of the Wylys for engaging in shady transactions and the fact that stock brokerage and gas marketing firms are not much better, is there any chance something shady is afoot in this kind of business? As president bush says, fool you once shame on me, fool you twice ... or something like that. :-)
              Charlie
            • chasmauch@aol.com
              Apparently Mr. Brian Killkelley, a Green Mountain representative, is on this listserv, and sent me an email (copied below) in which he offered to meet with us
              Message 6 of 11 , May 15, 2003
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                Apparently Mr. Brian Killkelley, a Green Mountain representative, is on this listserv, and sent me an email (copied below) in which he offered to meet with us and respond to any questions we may have. I appreciate this offer and would like to carry forward with it.

                However, it occurs to me that maybe we would not need to meet, at least initially. We could start by preparing and submitting a list of questions to him in advance, and then if there are some items we want more information on we can submit them again. It may be that we can find out most of what we need to know this way, or at least get the comparatively minor stuff out of the way and deal with any major sticking points at a meeting.

                As he says, I'm sure they have been asked about the "boycott GM" website hundreds of time and if I were them I would have prepared a list of responses to every item on that list. Naturally they would not normally bring it up when talking to a prospective customer but if someone asked, they should be able to just whip out a handy little report and say "here it is." 

                If it is OK with everyone I will prepare a preliminary draft of an email to GM (possibly by tomorrow, maybe Saturday) with some of my questions and pass it on to you all, who can than add or clarify anything further that may be needed. Once we have most of our concerns listed, we can forward it to Brian and he can respond to all of us who might be interested.

                It would probably be better at this point to take this thread off this list before we start getting complaints and send it only to interested individuals. So far I think we have Robert, Randy, and Mike. If anyone else wants to be included please let me know. Maybe we can settle this once and for all, one way or the other. I think we need to give it a shot.
                Charlie


                Mr. Mauch,
                We've addressed the (now very old) issues brought up on the boycott site in Houston and elsewhere many times over.  But we'd be happy to discuss them with you or other HREG members who have concerns or are interested in clarification.  Feel free to call me at the number below, or Tom Rawls, our Environmental VP; his number is 802-846-2560 x6154.
                 
                Thanks,
                 
                Brian KillKelley
                Director, Renewable Development
                Green Mountain Energy Company
                75 Green Mountain Drive
                S Burlington, VT  05403
                (802) 846-2560 x6113
                FAX: (802) 846-2561
              • Mike Wissink
                Charlie, Renewable Energy Credits are traded through ERCOT. The trading is straight forward. (i.e. bid/ask) The players are going to be retail players and
                Message 7 of 11 , May 15, 2003
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                  Charlie,

                  Renewable Energy Credits are traded through ERCOT. The
                  trading is straight forward. (i.e. bid/ask) The
                  players are going to be retail players and renewable
                  generators. I have not heard of any trading
                  derivatives created from RECs. (but, you can create
                  derivatives on anything)

                  Now we can discuss Enron, the natural gas industry,
                  the .com bubble, the stock advisors, and other bad
                  business/political practices. Remember, when the
                  economy is good ALL companies/organizations can
                  survive as long as cash flow is good. When the economy
                  turns down and cash flow decreases, marginal companies
                  will fold and the mistakes will come to light.

                  But, Green Mountain is the best alternative compared
                  to the status quo. Everyone has to do what they
                  believe is right.

                  Conservation is the best tool to lower energy needs
                  and lower the impact YOU make on this planet.

                  Mike

                  --- chasmauch@... wrote:
                  > Mike,
                  > Thanks for that information and description of the
                  > grid. Of course it brings
                  > up other questions in my mind. Is there a
                  > marketplace where these Renewable
                  > Energy Credits are swapped, traded, and
                  > prestidigitized in a deliberately
                  > complex, confusing, and mysterious manner, such as
                  > happens with natural gas
                  > and other items, and in which Enron and others were
                  > involved? It has recently
                  > come to light that most of the major "reputable"
                  > stock brokerage firms have
                  > been doing all kinds of illegal - criminal, actually
                  > - rigging of markets and
                  > ripping off of the public. The natural gas market
                  > has also recently been
                  > revealed as subject to scamming by unethical traders
                  > who submitted false
                  > prices and nonexistent sales to the market which
                  > then averaged them and
                  > established "market prices." Maybe I am a bit
                  > paranoid since the Enron fiasco
                  > but - given the past history of the Wylys for
                  > engaging in shady transactions
                  > and the fact that stock brokerage and gas marketing
                  > firms are not much
                  > better, is there any chance something shady is afoot
                  > in this kind of
                  > business? As president bush says, fool you once
                  > shame on me, fool you twice
                  > ... or something like that. :-)
                  > Charlie
                  >


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                • Randy Scott
                  Since the topic of this group is “renewable energy” then it seems to me like a worthwhile use of bandwidth. I’m a member of another yahoo group which is
                  Message 8 of 11 , May 15, 2003
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                    Since the topic of this group is “renewable energy” then it seems to me like a worthwhile use of bandwidth.

                     

                    I’m a member of another yahoo group which is effectively a fan club for the folk singer Loreena McKennitt. One time, a few years ago, she got online with us & answered all our silly questions. The questions & answers were then compiled into an FAQ file that is posted in the files section of our yahoo group page.

                     

                    Since GME’s “stated” purpose is to provide and promote renewable energy, I would think that any answers Mr. KillKelley gives might be interesting to all or most members here. Granted, I suspect that most of it will be “sales pitch”, but some of it might be enlightening. For example, I would like to ask him why my price per KwH just went up.

                     

                    Randy Scott

                     

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: chasmauch@... [mailto:chasmauch@...]
                    Sent
                    : Thursday, May 15, 2003 1:45 PM
                    To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [hreg] And speaking of Green Mountain...

                     

                    Apparently Mr. Brian Killkelley, a Green Mountain representative, is on this listserv, and sent me an email (copied below) in which he offered to meet with us and respond to any questions we may have. I appreciate this offer and would like to carry forward with it.

                    However, it occurs to me that maybe we would not need to meet, at least initially. We could start by preparing and submitting a list of questions to him in advance, and then if there are some items we want more information on we can submit them again. It may be that we can find out most of what we need to know this way, or at least get the comparatively minor stuff out of the way and deal with any major sticking points at a meeting.

                    As he says, I'm sure they have been asked about the "boycott GM" website hundreds of time and if I were them I would have prepared a list of responses to every item on that list. Naturally they would not normally bring it up when talking to a prospective customer but if someone asked, they should be able to just whip out a handy little report and say "here it is." 

                    If it is OK with everyone I will prepare a preliminary draft of an email to GM (possibly by tomorrow, maybe Saturday) with some of my questions and pass it on to you all, who can than add or clarify anything further that may be needed. Once we have most of our concerns listed, we can forward it to Brian and he can respond to all of us who might be interested.

                    It would probably be better at this point to take this thread off this list before we start getting complaints and send it only to interested individuals. So far I think we have Robert, Randy, and Mike. If anyone else wants to be included please let me know. Maybe we can settle this once and for all, one way or the other. I think we need to give it a shot.
                    Charlie


                    Mr. Mauch,

                    We've addressed the (now very old) issues brought up on the boycott site in Houston and elsewhere many times over.  But we'd be happy to discuss them with you or other HREG members who have concerns or are interested in clarification.  Feel free to call me at the number below, or Tom Rawls, our Environmental VP; his number is 802-846-2560 x6154.
                     
                    Thanks,
                     
                    Brian KillKelley
                    Director, Renewable Development
                    Green Mountain Energy Company
                    75 Green Mountain Drive
                    S Burlington, VT  05403
                    (802) 846-2560 x6113
                    FAX: (802) 846-2561



                    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                  • Steven Deterling
                    Charlie Please include me on your responses from GME. My email is: rocketman1@wildmail.com Thanks Steven Care2 make the world greener! Meet 30,000 Eco-Friendly
                    Message 9 of 11 , May 15, 2003
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                      Charlie

                      Please include me on your responses from GME.
                      My email is: rocketman1@...

                      Thanks

                      Steven



                      Care2 make the world greener!
                      Meet 30,000 Eco-Friendly Individuals:
                      http://www.Care2.com/connect/
                    • Roxanne Boyer
                      We also use GM as our electric provider. I think that it makes a statement that people are willing to pay more for clean, secure, renewable energy - even if
                      Message 10 of 11 , May 15, 2003
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                        We also use GM as our electric provider.  I think that it makes a statement that people are willing to pay more for clean, secure, renewable energy - even if the mechanism is not perfect.  As a company, we have found the GM service representatives to be disorganized and sometimes inept, this may be due in part because the company is relatively new - I expect they will improve with experience. 
                         
                        I would be interested in what Mr. Killkelly has to say.  I read the statements on the "boycott GM" web page and found most of them silly. 
                         
                        Maybe a good discussion during our next meeting would be, "What is renewable energy?"  Does it include turbines powered by landfill gas?  Does it include hydroelectric dams?  Does it include waste incinerators? 
                         
                        Is it bad for big oil companies to get involved in renewable energy?  I have heard that the CEO of BP has made statements and decisions in favor of renewable energy at the expense of immediate profit that could cause the shareholders to hang him on a rope.  I have heard similar pushes for renewable energy for the Shell executives.  (Exxon, unfortunately, is a different story).  I'm behind moving the big energy companies into the renewable sector.  They may be the only organizations that have the resources to transition the world to a renewable economy.
                         
                        -Chris

                        ----- Original Message -----
                        Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2003 1:44 PM
                        Subject: Re: [hreg] And speaking of Green Mountain...

                        Apparently Mr. Brian Killkelley, a Green Mountain representative, is on this listserv, and sent me an email (copied below) in which he offered to meet with us and respond to any questions we may have. I appreciate this offer and would like to carry forward with it.

                        However, it occurs to me that maybe we would not need to meet, at least initially. We could start by preparing and submitting a list of questions to him in advance, and then if there are some items we want more information on we can submit them again. It may be that we can find out most of what we need to know this way, or at least get the comparatively minor stuff out of the way and deal with any major sticking points at a meeting.

                        As he says, I'm sure they have been asked about the "boycott GM" website hundreds of time and if I were them I would have prepared a list of responses to every item on that list. Naturally they would not normally bring it up when talking to a prospective customer but if someone asked, they should be able to just whip out a handy little report and say "here it is." 

                        If it is OK with everyone I will prepare a preliminary draft of an email to GM (possibly by tomorrow, maybe Saturday) with some of my questions and pass it on to you all, who can than add or clarify anything further that may be needed. Once we have most of our concerns listed, we can forward it to Brian and he can respond to all of us who might be interested.

                        It would probably be better at this point to take this thread off this list before we start getting complaints and send it only to interested individuals. So far I think we have Robert, Randy, and Mike. If anyone else wants to be included please let me know. Maybe we can settle this once and for all, one way or the other. I think we need to give it a shot.
                        Charlie


                        Mr. Mauch,
                        We've addressed the (now very old) issues brought up on the boycott site in Houston and elsewhere many times over.  But we'd be happy to discuss them with you or other HREG members who have concerns or are interested in clarification.  Feel free to call me at the number below, or Tom Rawls, our Environmental VP; his number is 802-846-2560 x6154.
                         
                        Thanks,
                         
                        Brian KillKelley
                        Director, Renewable Development
                        Green Mountain Energy Company
                        75 Green Mountain Drive
                        S Burlington, VT  05403
                        (802) 846-2560 x6113
                        FAX: (802) 846-2561


                        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                      • Michael Christie
                        Charlie, Please include me in this list. I am very interested in what GM has to say. Thank you Michael Christie mchristi@fbtc.net ... From: chasmauch@aol.com
                        Message 11 of 11 , May 16, 2003
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                          Charlie,
                           
                          Please include me in this list. I am very interested in what GM has to say.
                           
                          Thank you
                          Michael Christie
                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: chasmauch@... [mailto:chasmauch@...]
                          Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2003 1:45 PM
                          To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [hreg] And speaking of Green Mountain...

                          Apparently Mr. Brian Killkelley, a Green Mountain representative, is on this listserv, and sent me an email (copied below) in which he offered to meet with us and respond to any questions we may have. I appreciate this offer and would like to carry forward with it.

                          However, it occurs to me that maybe we would not need to meet, at least initially. We could start by preparing and submitting a list of questions to him in advance, and then if there are some items we want more information on we can submit them again. It may be that we can find out most of what we need to know this way, or at least get the comparatively minor stuff out of the way and deal with any major sticking points at a meeting.

                          As he says, I'm sure they have been asked about the "boycott GM" website hundreds of time and if I were them I would have prepared a list of responses to every item on that list. Naturally they would not normally bring it up when talking to a prospective customer but if someone asked, they should be able to just whip out a handy little report and say "here it is." 

                          If it is OK with everyone I will prepare a preliminary draft of an email to GM (possibly by tomorrow, maybe Saturday) with some of my questions and pass it on to you all, who can than add or clarify anything further that may be needed. Once we have most of our concerns listed, we can forward it to Brian and he can respond to all of us who might be interested.

                          It would probably be better at this point to take this thread off this list before we start getting complaints and send it only to interested individuals. So far I think we have Robert, Randy, and Mike. If anyone else wants to be included please let me know. Maybe we can settle this once and for all, one way or the other. I think we need to give it a shot.
                          Charlie


                          Mr. Mauch,
                          We've addressed the (now very old) issues brought up on the boycott site in Houston and elsewhere many times over.  But we'd be happy to discuss them with you or other HREG members who have concerns or are interested in clarification.  Feel free to call me at the number below, or Tom Rawls, our Environmental VP; his number is 802-846-2560 x6154.
                           
                          Thanks,
                           
                          Brian KillKelley
                          Director, Renewable Development
                          Green Mountain Energy Company
                          75 Green Mountain Drive
                          S Burlington, VT  05403
                          (802) 846-2560 x6113
                          FAX: (802) 846-2561


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