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Fwd: Green Party Animated Cartoon on Corporate Domination

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  • chasmauch@aol.com
    Hello HREGers, Here is an animated cartoon about corporate domination of our society, with a little Green Party commercial tagged on the end. I think it is
    Message 1 of 7 , Oct 29, 2002
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      Hello HREGers,
      Here is an animated cartoon about corporate domination of our society, with a little Green Party commercial tagged on the end. I think it is basically pertinent to what HREG is about, but if anyone is offended by the idea, I apologize and suggest that they stop here and delete this message. But I hope you are curious. Would appreciate your comments/feedback.
      Charlie
    • Robert Bruce Warburton
      The cartoon had too much downtime between dialogue. I seemed that it could be a lot shorter and smoother running. I saw the league of Women Voters Guide in
      Message 2 of 7 , Oct 29, 2002
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        The cartoon had too much downtime between dialogue. I seemed that it could be a lot shorter and smoother running. I saw the league of Women Voters Guide in Sunday's paper. I have suggested that guide to people, but most act like they have never heard of it. I saw the picture of the Democractic candidate for Texas Railroad Commission. Is she married? I will vote for you, but I have to tell you if she asked me to vote for her in person I am not that strong.

        chasmauch@... wrote:

         Hello HREGers,
        Here is an animated cartoon about corporate domination of our society, with a little Green Party commercial tagged on the end. I think it is basically pertinent to what HREG is about, but if anyone is offended by the idea, I apologize and suggest that they stop here and delete this message. But I hope you are curious. Would appreciate your comments/feedback.
        Charlie

        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

        Subject: Green Party Animated Cartoon on Corporate Domination
        Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 20:19:49 -0500
        From: "Greg Bean" <greg@...>
        To: <ChasMauch@...>
        CC: <gregjardin@...>

         

        Our society is ruled in large part by unelected, unaccountable corporate CEOs who basically control both major political parties and through them our government, the economy, our health care system, the mass media, our food supply, and much more. They would like to rule the world.


        The Green Party thinks this is a very bad situation. To view a fascinating 3-minute flash animation cartoon commenting on this situation, please click on the link below.

        http://www.txgreens.org/ruletheworld/


        If you like it, please forward this email to your friends.

      • Robert Johnston
        Charles,   I was offended by the cartoon, but that didn’t stop me from looking and laughing at it, even if I thought it was inappropriate to post such
        Message 3 of 7 , Oct 29, 2002
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          Charles,
           
          I was offended by the cartoon, but that didn’t stop me from looking and
          laughing at it, even if I thought it was inappropriate to post such
          political advertisements on the HREG listserv (unless you really do want
          to scare off those of us who are evil corporate techies and convert HREG
          into a Green outpost) and even though it was painful to watch in fits
          and starts thanks to my POTS internet connection (those evil,
          profit-centered telecoms haven’t seen fit to wire my neighborhood with
          broadband yet).  Though I disagreed with it, and with the posting, I
          don’t really mind the political dialogue, as I find it interesting to
          learn more about the Greens and how much I dislike their tactics and
          proposals.
           
          The good part for you, Charles, is that the cartoon does a pretty good
          job of listing the major issues that you Greens seem to care about. 
          Congratulations there.  The bad news is that it sounds like something
          Marx or Lenin could have proclaimed to the proletariat 90 years ago. 
          “Our society is ruled in large part by unelected, unaccountable
          corporate CEOs who basically control both major political parties and
          through them our government, the economy, our health care system, the
          mass media, our food supply, and much more. They would like to rule the
          world.”  The tone isn’t much different than the accusations made against
          the czars and Orthodox church, or preached to American and European
          Labor thereafter.  But in the end, both communists and czarists proved
          to be totalitarians, and not unlike your inability to differentiate
          between American political parties, citizens couldn’t see a lot of
          difference between the czar and Stalin, except that Stalin killed a
          whole lot more, and told starving peasants that they were in it for a
          good cause.
           
          I think that your cartoon is a great example of why the Greens can never
          be a major political party.  Many of us are decent people (we think) who
          work for decent corporations (we think) who don’t see the evil the
          cartoon describes, even in our CEO’s.  We recognize the cartoon for what
          it is, a gross caricature.  A severe distortion of reality.  So long as
          Greens insist on offending mainstream Americans and promoting class
          politics, one can assume they’ll never be very successful unless either
          they morph into something else, or the American economy goes into such a
          steep decline that the middle class gets wiped out and we really do end
          up with a severely distorted society.  If that happens, then as in the
          early 20th century, maybe Labor will again fall for the sweet talk of
          those who dispense criticism of highly organized human enterprises that
          successfully and efficiently produce products and services for society. 
          Such parties criticize but don’t suggest an effective alternative, and
          as in the last go-around, they are more likely to increase poverty and
          suffering than justice and happiness as their ads portray.  Communists
          countries worldwide demonstrated this for the better part of a century,
          and only as they let in CEO’s and corporations are they starting to see
          things turn around for the better, including more food, shelter,
          education, worker and political freedom, freedom of the press, human
          rights, lower pollution, etc.
           
          I think the problems your cartoon points out are in many cases real
          problems.  I just doubt the Greens have a clue how to go about solving
          them.  Universal health care drove Russian leaders to American doctors. 
          Job security works against the need for a reflexive and adaptive
          workforce, which is what enables a nation to make the changes it
          continuously needs to in order to develop and respond to new technology,
          opportunities, or problems.  Corporations and CEO’s can do bad things. 
          But these are human problems, not the fault of the entire enterprise
          structure.  Why pick on CEO’s for obscene salaries?  Why not pick on
          ball players or rock stars?  At least the corporations arguably produce
          more useful products and services.  Even the ones making all the bad
          press now, like Enron and Worldcom, provided billions of dollars worth
          of useful services to society.  Aren’t you Greens trying to exploit, in
          a manipulative fashion, current bad feelings towards such companies? 
          What are you saying that would appeal to an Enron or Worldcom employee? 
          Or to any other corporate hound who can put themselves in their shoes? 
          Yes, corporations have their problems, but corporations have also been
          part of the solution to human problems.  Let’s not throw the baby out
          with the bath water.
           
          Robert Johnston
        • chasmauch@aol.com
          Robert and HREGers, Thanks for the feedback. Clearly this is not a political listserv but politics are an unavoidable part of just about everything that
          Message 4 of 7 , Oct 29, 2002
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            Robert and HREGers,
            Thanks for the feedback. Clearly this is not a political listserv but politics are an unavoidable part of just about everything that happens everywhere, including the way we get our energy. Of course we can call anyone who criticizes our corporate capitalist system a communist or whatever and complain that they do not offer a detailed alternative, but that is not what we need. If we can recover our democracy from the big money interests who have captured it, we can let the people answer that question through the democratic process which does not work at present because it is totally sold out to and beholden to big money, primarily from corporations and very wealthy persons.
            I will spare you all a detailed rebuttal to Robert's diatribe but hopefully everyone who is interested can see my response in tomorrow's Chronicle. I had a message from them on my telephone recorder when I got home this evening that they plan to run an op ed piece I submitted a few days ago, probably in tomorrow's Outlook section. So unless it gets scrubbed at the last minute you can read it in the paper or on their website. Then we can take it from there.
            Charlie
          • Robert Bruce Warburton
            The problem is that most people are not influenced by statistical arguments. Even if the statistical arguments involve legitimate statistics. One person who
            Message 5 of 7 , Oct 30, 2002
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              The problem is that most people are not influenced by statistical arguments.
              Even if the statistical arguments involve legitimate statistics. One person
              who was involved in a Multi-Level Marketing (MLM) scheme said, " facts are
              nice but stories sell." Look at the current governor's race. The candidates
              are appealing to emotion. The Texas Comptroller's race is another example.
              Instead of talking about the huge budget deficit that the state is facing,
              Carol Keaton Rylander is avoiding discussing the issue altogether.
              Politicians avoid discussing specifics as much as possible. The web site that
              Charles sent me shows candidates with no comment. How can people get
              information on where the candidates stand? It is not always a guarantee that
              spending a huge amount of money will ensure an election victory. I am sure
              that Perry will win. There is not a lot of love for Perry anymore, but the
              negative campaign has turned off a lot of people from voting for Sanchez.
              Unfortunately, our campaigns are going by the late Lee Atwater philosophy of
              increasing your opponents negatives.

              Robert Johnston wrote:

              > Charles,
              >
              > I was offended by the cartoon, but that didn’t stop me from looking and
              > laughing at it, even if I thought it was inappropriate to post such
              > political advertisements on the HREG listserv (unless you really do want
              > to scare off those of us who are evil corporate techies and convert HREG
              > into a Green outpost) and even though it was painful to watch in fits
              > and starts thanks to my POTS internet connection (those evil,
              > profit-centered telecoms haven’t seen fit to wire my neighborhood with
              > broadband yet). Though I disagreed with it, and with the posting, I
              > don’t really mind the political dialogue, as I find it interesting to
              > learn more about the Greens and how much I dislike their tactics and
              > proposals.
              >
              > The good part for you, Charles, is that the cartoon does a pretty good
              > job of listing the major issues that you Greens seem to care about.
              > Congratulations there. The bad news is that it sounds like something
              > Marx or Lenin could have proclaimed to the proletariat 90 years ago.
              > “Our society is ruled in large part by unelected, unaccountable
              > corporate CEOs who basically control both major political parties and
              > through them our government, the economy, our health care system, the
              > mass media, our food supply, and much more. They would like to rule the
              > world.” The tone isn’t much different than the accusations made against
              > the czars and Orthodox church, or preached to American and European
              > Labor thereafter. But in the end, both communists and czarists proved
              > to be totalitarians, and not unlike your inability to differentiate
              > between American political parties, citizens couldn’t see a lot of
              > difference between the czar and Stalin, except that Stalin killed a
              > whole lot more, and told starving peasants that they were in it for a
              > good cause.
              >
              > I think that your cartoon is a great example of why the Greens can never
              > be a major political party. Many of us are decent people (we think) who
              > work for decent corporations (we think) who don’t see the evil the
              > cartoon describes, even in our CEO’s. We recognize the cartoon for what
              > it is, a gross caricature. A severe distortion of reality. So long as
              > Greens insist on offending mainstream Americans and promoting class
              > politics, one can assume they’ll never be very successful unless either
              > they morph into something else, or the American economy goes into such a
              > steep decline that the middle class gets wiped out and we really do end
              > up with a severely distorted society. If that happens, then as in the
              > early 20th century, maybe Labor will again fall for the sweet talk of
              > those who dispense criticism of highly organized human enterprises that
              > successfully and efficiently produce products and services for society.
              > Such parties criticize but don’t suggest an effective alternative, and
              > as in the last go-around, they are more likely to increase poverty and
              > suffering than justice and happiness as their ads portray. Communists
              > countries worldwide demonstrated this for the better part of a century,
              > and only as they let in CEO’s and corporations are they starting to see
              > things turn around for the better, including more food, shelter,
              > education, worker and political freedom, freedom of the press, human
              > rights, lower pollution, etc.
              >
              > I think the problems your cartoon points out are in many cases real
              > problems. I just doubt the Greens have a clue how to go about solving
              > them. Universal health care drove Russian leaders to American doctors.
              > Job security works against the need for a reflexive and adaptive
              > workforce, which is what enables a nation to make the changes it
              > continuously needs to in order to develop and respond to new technology,
              > opportunities, or problems. Corporations and CEO’s can do bad things.
              > But these are human problems, not the fault of the entire enterprise
              > structure. Why pick on CEO’s for obscene salaries? Why not pick on
              > ball players or rock stars? At least the corporations arguably produce
              > more useful products and services. Even the ones making all the bad
              > press now, like Enron and Worldcom, provided billions of dollars worth
              > of useful services to society. Aren’t you Greens trying to exploit, in
              > a manipulative fashion, current bad feelings towards such companies?
              > What are you saying that would appeal to an Enron or Worldcom employee?
              > Or to any other corporate hound who can put themselves in their shoes?
              > Yes, corporations have their problems, but corporations have also been
              > part of the solution to human problems. Let’s not throw the baby out
              > with the bath water.
              >
              > Robert Johnston
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            • Ryan McMullan
              One source that I ve used before is the League of Women Voters Voters Guide, which is a straight, non-partisan quiz of the candidates. They send each
              Message 6 of 7 , Oct 31, 2002
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                One source that I've used before is the League of Women Voters
                Voters Guide, which is a straight, non-partisan quiz of the
                candidates. They send each candidate three questions and post their
                responses. You can find it online at:
                http://www.lwvhouston.org/VG_Nov02/VGHC/hcvgframe.htm
                (they have one for Harris county and one for Fort Bend)
                http://www.lwvhouston.org/

                Not every candidate responds with a solid answer, but that can give you an
                indication, too. This has been the only way I've been able to find
                information on races like the Texas Court of Appeals or the Harris County
                Probate Court. Otherwise, I'm an informed voter and one might as well not
                vote if one does not have any clue who one is voting for (I'm not a big fan
                of straight party ticket). Anyway, it's a potential resource.

                Ryan

                At 10:24 AM 10/30/2002 -0600, you wrote:
                >The problem is that most people are not influenced by statistical arguments.
                >Even if the statistical arguments involve legitimate statistics. One person
                >who was involved in a Multi-Level Marketing (MLM) scheme said, " facts are
                >nice but stories sell." Look at the current governor's race. The candidates
                >are appealing to emotion. The Texas Comptroller's race is another example.
                >Instead of talking about the huge budget deficit that the state is facing,
                >Carol Keaton Rylander is avoiding discussing the issue altogether.
                >Politicians avoid discussing specifics as much as possible. The web site that
                >Charles sent me shows candidates with no comment. How can people get
                >information on where the candidates stand? It is not always a guarantee that
                >spending a huge amount of money will ensure an election victory. I am sure
                >that Perry will win. There is not a lot of love for Perry anymore, but the
                >negative campaign has turned off a lot of people from voting for Sanchez.
                >Unfortunately, our campaigns are going by the late Lee Atwater philosophy of
                >increasing your opponents negatives.
                >
                >Robert Johnston wrote:
                >
                > > Charles,
                > >
                > > I was offended by the cartoon, but that didn't stop me from looking and
                > > laughing at it, even if I thought it was inappropriate to post such
                > > political advertisements on the HREG listserv (unless you really do want
                > > to scare off those of us who are evil corporate techies and convert HREG
                > > into a Green outpost) and even though it was painful to watch in fits
                > > and starts thanks to my POTS internet connection (those evil,
                > > profit-centered telecoms haven't seen fit to wire my neighborhood with
                > > broadband yet). Though I disagreed with it, and with the posting, I
                > > don't really mind the political dialogue, as I find it interesting to
                > > learn more about the Greens and how much I dislike their tactics and
                > > proposals.
                > >
                > > The good part for you, Charles, is that the cartoon does a pretty good
                > > job of listing the major issues that you Greens seem to care about.
                > > Congratulations there. The bad news is that it sounds like something
                > > Marx or Lenin could have proclaimed to the proletariat 90 years ago.
                > > "Our society is ruled in large part by unelected, unaccountable
                > > corporate CEOs who basically control both major political parties and
                > > through them our government, the economy, our health care system, the
                > > mass media, our food supply, and much more. They would like to rule the
                > > world." The tone isn't much different than the accusations made against
                > > the czars and Orthodox church, or preached to American and European
                > > Labor thereafter. But in the end, both communists and czarists proved
                > > to be totalitarians, and not unlike your inability to differentiate
                > > between American political parties, citizens couldn't see a lot of
                > > difference between the czar and Stalin, except that Stalin killed a
                > > whole lot more, and told starving peasants that they were in it for a
                > > good cause.
                > >
                > > I think that your cartoon is a great example of why the Greens can never
                > > be a major political party. Many of us are decent people (we think) who
                > > work for decent corporations (we think) who don't see the evil the
                > > cartoon describes, even in our CEO's. We recognize the cartoon for what
                > > it is, a gross caricature. A severe distortion of reality. So long as
                > > Greens insist on offending mainstream Americans and promoting class
                > > politics, one can assume they'll never be very successful unless either
                > > they morph into something else, or the American economy goes into such a
                > > steep decline that the middle class gets wiped out and we really do end
                > > up with a severely distorted society. If that happens, then as in the
                > > early 20th century, maybe Labor will again fall for the sweet talk of
                > > those who dispense criticism of highly organized human enterprises that
                > > successfully and efficiently produce products and services for society.
                > > Such parties criticize but don't suggest an effective alternative, and
                > > as in the last go-around, they are more likely to increase poverty and
                > > suffering than justice and happiness as their ads portray. Communists
                > > countries worldwide demonstrated this for the better part of a century,
                > > and only as they let in CEO's and corporations are they starting to see
                > > things turn around for the better, including more food, shelter,
                > > education, worker and political freedom, freedom of the press, human
                > > rights, lower pollution, etc.
                > >
                > > I think the problems your cartoon points out are in many cases real
                > > problems. I just doubt the Greens have a clue how to go about solving
                > > them. Universal health care drove Russian leaders to American doctors.
                > > Job security works against the need for a reflexive and adaptive
                > > workforce, which is what enables a nation to make the changes it
                > > continuously needs to in order to develop and respond to new technology,
                > > opportunities, or problems. Corporations and CEO's can do bad things.
                > > But these are human problems, not the fault of the entire enterprise
                > > structure. Why pick on CEO's for obscene salaries? Why not pick on
                > > ball players or rock stars? At least the corporations arguably produce
                > > more useful products and services. Even the ones making all the bad
                > > press now, like Enron and Worldcom, provided billions of dollars worth
                > > of useful services to society. Aren't you Greens trying to exploit, in
                > > a manipulative fashion, current bad feelings towards such companies?
                > > What are you saying that would appeal to an Enron or Worldcom employee?
                > > Or to any other corporate hound who can put themselves in their shoes?
                > > Yes, corporations have their problems, but corporations have also been
                > > part of the solution to human problems. Let's not throw the baby out
                > > with the bath water.
                > >
                > > Robert Johnston
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              • chasmauch@aol.com
                The voters guide put out by the League of Women Voters is far and away the best source of unbiased information about all candidates. Hard copies of the guides
                Message 7 of 7 , Oct 31, 2002
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                  The voters guide put out by the League of Women Voters is far and away the best source of unbiased information about all candidates. Hard copies of the guides are available at most libraries and many other locations.
                  On the internet just go to www.dnet.org and type in your zip code in the space indicated in the upper right hand corner. This will bring up all the races -- both statewide and local -- that will appear on the ballot for your area, with lots of information about each. It is an excellent resource.
                  Charlie
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