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RE: [hreg] www.shiftpower.org calculator

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  • Robert Johnston
    If you look at www.powertochoose.com and put in your zip code, you ll find several suppliers in the $0.08/kwh range, especially if you are looking at costs for
    Message 1 of 15 , Jan 29, 2002
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      If you look at www.powertochoose.com and put in your zip code, you'll
      find several suppliers in the $0.08/kwh range, especially if you are
      looking at costs for >1500 kwh/month.

      Incidentally, for what it's worth, I signed up under the pilot program
      for NewPower, and my rate is less than yours but significantly more than
      the current rates. Looks like the pilot folks got taken. Since I have
      a 6 month period to cancel/change plans without penalty, I plan to do
      so.

      Robert

      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: Ryan McMullan [mailto:mcmullan@...]
      > Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 9:12 PM
      > To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: RE: [hreg] www.shiftpower.org calculator
      >
      > At 08:24 PM 1/29/02 -0600, you wrote:
      > >I know, the $.10/kWh was generous, but be patient, soon you will see
      it.
      >
      > I was paying $0.109/kWh under HL&P and now I'm paying $0.106 under
      Green
      > Mountain so it doesn't seem overly generous to me. Maybe I just need
      to
      > use more electricity so I can get that price break....
      >
      > I just wanted to thank everyone for your back-of-the-envelop
      calculations
      > (and for showing your work). It's very educational and revealing and
      > gives
      > me the ability to better judge situations where I don't have the
      immediate
      > benefit of your experience. Thanks.
      >
      > Ryan
      >
      >
      > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
      >
      >
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
      http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      >
      >
    • Peter
      i can show you where they are coming up with the numbers also they have not accounted for the inverter and battery banks and construction and wiring detailed
      Message 2 of 15 , Jan 29, 2002
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        i can show you where they are coming up with the numbers
        also they have not accounted for the inverter and battery banks
        and construction and wiring detailed cost
        peter

        tigger@... wrote:

        > I guess I just expected more. I mean, for what it would cost for a 5KW
        > system, with that kind of payback, it just doesn't really seem worth it.
        > Maybe I'm missing something on that side. And I gotta admit that, having
        > grown up on the South Texas Coast, 4 hours of decent sun a day seems a
        > little on the low side. Not that I'm doubting the numbers. It just
        > intuitively seems like it should be more than that. Hmm...maybe I should
        > move back to Corpus Christi and invest in wind power. 8-)
        >
        > Paul
        >
        > PS. Is there anyone on the list using a PV system in the Houston area that
        > can provide some hard, real-life numbers?
        >
        > On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Robert Johnston wrote:
        >
        > > The PV gurus can straighten us both out, but I thought I read somewhere
        > > that the Houston area could count on an average of about 4 hours of
        > > power per day (e.g., if you take the integral of all the power generated
        > > in a day and divide by the peak power rating, you'd get around 4 hours).
        > > That would be about 20 kwh/day, or 600 kwh/month. At current prices
        > > (~$0.08/kwh), that would be worth around $48 in savings (assuming you
        > > use >2100 kwh/month, since many utilities have price breaks at the 1500
        > > kwh level). Anybody else want to take a crack at this?
        > >
        > > Robert Johnston
        > >
        > > > -----Original Message-----
        > > > From: tigger@... [mailto:tigger@...]
        > > > Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 6:08 PM
        > > > To: Houston RE Group
        > > > Subject: [hreg] www.shiftpower.org calculator
        > > >
        > > > I just took a look at the calculator at Power Shift that's supposed to
        > > > show
        > > > you how much you'd save if you had a solar PV system. I think that
        > > they
        > > > are
        > > > really misreprenting things (at least I hope so) because I put in a
        > > 5.0KW
        > > > system, and they suggested that the average monthly savings on your
        > > > electric
        > > > bill would be only about $31.
        > > > I can only assume that they've totally left out net metering in their
        > > > calculations... Am I missing something here?
        > > >
        > > > Paul Archer
        > > >
        > > > --
        > > > ----------------------------------------------
        > > > "We Americans, we're a simple people...
        > > > but piss us off, and we'll bomb your cities."
        > > > --------------Robin Williams------------------
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
        > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        > > >
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        > >
        > >
        >
        > --
        > ----------------------------------------------
        > "We Americans, we're a simple people...
        > but piss us off, and we'll bomb your cities."
        > --------------Robin Williams------------------
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      • Claude Foster
        Your calculation looks good. My calculations for a home system shows a net increase of $660 per month. You are correct - something is wron with their program.
        Message 3 of 15 , Jan 30, 2002
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          Your calculation looks good. My calculations for a home system shows a net increase of $660 per month.

          You are correct - something is wron with their program.



          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: tigger@... [SMTP:tigger@...]
          > Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 6:08 PM
          > To: Houston RE Group
          > Subject: [hreg] www.shiftpower.org calculator
          >
          > I just took a look at the calculator at Power Shift that's supposed to show
          > you how much you'd save if you had a solar PV system. I think that they are
          > really misreprenting things (at least I hope so) because I put in a 5.0KW
          > system, and they suggested that the average monthly savings on your electric
          > bill would be only about $31.
          > I can only assume that they've totally left out net metering in their
          > calculations... Am I missing something here?
          >
          > Paul Archer
          >
          > --
          > ----------------------------------------------
          > "We Americans, we're a simple people...
          > but piss us off, and we'll bomb your cities."
          > --------------Robin Williams------------------
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          >
        • Polly Ledvina
          I don t get it. Right now they are making solar look like the most EXPENSIVE form of energy you can buy. I tired it for an Austin zip code also - things
          Message 4 of 15 , Jan 30, 2002
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            I don't get it. Right now they are making solar look like the most
            EXPENSIVE form of energy you can buy. I tired it for an Austin zip code
            also - things didn't improve very much.

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Claude Foster" <ccfoster@...>
            To: <hreg@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 8:13 AM
            Subject: RE: [hreg] www.shiftpower.org calculator


            > Your calculation looks good. My calculations for a home system shows a net
            increase of $660 per month.
            >
            > You are correct - something is wron with their program.
            >
            >
            >
            > > -----Original Message-----
            > > From: tigger@... [SMTP:tigger@...]
            > > Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 6:08 PM
            > > To: Houston RE Group
            > > Subject: [hreg] www.shiftpower.org calculator
            > >
            > > I just took a look at the calculator at Power Shift that's supposed to
            show
            > > you how much you'd save if you had a solar PV system. I think that they
            are
            > > really misreprenting things (at least I hope so) because I put in a
            5.0KW
            > > system, and they suggested that the average monthly savings on your
            electric
            > > bill would be only about $31.
            > > I can only assume that they've totally left out net metering in their
            > > calculations... Am I missing something here?
            > >
            > > Paul Archer
            > >
            > > --
            > > ----------------------------------------------
            > > "We Americans, we're a simple people...
            > > but piss us off, and we'll bomb your cities."
            > > --------------Robin Williams------------------
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
            http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            >
          • Kevin L. Conlin
            These numbers are realistic, Houston averages between 4.6 and 4.8 annual peak sun hours for a non tracking array. After conversion losses, you will produce
            Message 5 of 15 , Jan 30, 2002
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              These numbers are realistic, Houston averages between 4.6 and 4.8 annual
              peak sun hours for a non tracking array. After conversion losses, you will
              produce about 75 to 80% of your rated array output. Peoples perception of
              our "sunny" climate and the actual numbers are often disputed, I get that
              all the time with my customers, but the reality is we have relatively weak
              sunshine compared to the rest of the US southwest.
              With the humidity, it's the worst of both worlds, requiring more power to
              cool the house than in less humid parts of the country. Combine that with
              the fact that we build horribly designed and inefficient homes with minimal
              insulation, that is the main reason I don't think PV powered homes are
              practical yet in this area. I know that's not what a lot of folks want to
              hear, but that's the truth. Design an efficient, passive solar home with a
              geothermal cooling system and other energy efficient devices, such as
              LaVerne Williams, Bob Batho and Mac Holder have been advocating for years,
              and you have a reasonable chance of pulling it off. Slap it on your average
              spec home, and you've wasted a lot of money.

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: <tigger@...>
              To: <hreg@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 9:24 PM
              Subject: RE: [hreg] www.shiftpower.org calculator


              > I guess I just expected more. I mean, for what it would cost for a 5KW
              > system, with that kind of payback, it just doesn't really seem worth it.
              > Maybe I'm missing something on that side. And I gotta admit that, having
              > grown up on the South Texas Coast, 4 hours of decent sun a day seems a
              > little on the low side. Not that I'm doubting the numbers. It just
              > intuitively seems like it should be more than that. Hmm...maybe I should
              > move back to Corpus Christi and invest in wind power. 8-)
              >
              > Paul
              >
              > PS. Is there anyone on the list using a PV system in the Houston area that
              > can provide some hard, real-life numbers?
              >
              >
              >
              > On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Robert Johnston wrote:
              >
              > > The PV gurus can straighten us both out, but I thought I read somewhere
              > > that the Houston area could count on an average of about 4 hours of
              > > power per day (e.g., if you take the integral of all the power generated
              > > in a day and divide by the peak power rating, you'd get around 4 hours).
              > > That would be about 20 kwh/day, or 600 kwh/month. At current prices
              > > (~$0.08/kwh), that would be worth around $48 in savings (assuming you
              > > use >2100 kwh/month, since many utilities have price breaks at the 1500
              > > kwh level). Anybody else want to take a crack at this?
              > >
              > > Robert Johnston
              > >
              > > > -----Original Message-----
              > > > From: tigger@... [mailto:tigger@...]
              > > > Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 6:08 PM
              > > > To: Houston RE Group
              > > > Subject: [hreg] www.shiftpower.org calculator
              > > >
              > > > I just took a look at the calculator at Power Shift that's supposed to
              > > > show
              > > > you how much you'd save if you had a solar PV system. I think that
              > > they
              > > > are
              > > > really misreprenting things (at least I hope so) because I put in a
              > > 5.0KW
              > > > system, and they suggested that the average monthly savings on your
              > > > electric
              > > > bill would be only about $31.
              > > > I can only assume that they've totally left out net metering in their
              > > > calculations... Am I missing something here?
              > > >
              > > > Paul Archer
              > > >
              > > > --
              > > > ----------------------------------------------
              > > > "We Americans, we're a simple people...
              > > > but piss us off, and we'll bomb your cities."
              > > > --------------Robin Williams------------------
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
              > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              > > >
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
              http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              > >
              > >
              >
              > --
              > ----------------------------------------------
              > "We Americans, we're a simple people...
              > but piss us off, and we'll bomb your cities."
              > --------------Robin Williams------------------
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              >
              >
              >
            • Kevin L. Conlin
              You will not generate $660 worth of power with a 5kW array in Houston, not even close, even with double axis tracking. Per year, perhaps, but definitely not
              Message 6 of 15 , Jan 30, 2002
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                You will not generate $660 worth of power with a 5kW array in Houston, not
                even close, even with double axis tracking. Per year, perhaps, but
                definitely not per month, That would equate to generating 220 kWh per day,
                which would require a 50kW array.Sorry, better recheck the math
                .
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Claude Foster" <ccfoster@...>
                To: <hreg@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 8:13 AM
                Subject: RE: [hreg] www.shiftpower.org calculator


                > Your calculation looks good. My calculations for a home system shows a net
                increase of $660 per month.
                >
                > You are correct - something is wron with their program.
                >
                >
                >
                > > -----Original Message-----
                > > From: tigger@... [SMTP:tigger@...]
                > > Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 6:08 PM
                > > To: Houston RE Group
                > > Subject: [hreg] www.shiftpower.org calculator
                > >
                > > I just took a look at the calculator at Power Shift that's supposed to
                show
                > > you how much you'd save if you had a solar PV system. I think that they
                are
                > > really misreprenting things (at least I hope so) because I put in a
                5.0KW
                > > system, and they suggested that the average monthly savings on your
                electric
                > > bill would be only about $31.
                > > I can only assume that they've totally left out net metering in their
                > > calculations... Am I missing something here?
                > >
                > > Paul Archer
                > >
                > > --
                > > ----------------------------------------------
                > > "We Americans, we're a simple people...
                > > but piss us off, and we'll bomb your cities."
                > > --------------Robin Williams------------------
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                > >
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                >
                >
                >
              • Leonard Bachman
                Words of wisdom. Thanks Kevin! Leonard insulate before you insolate... ... From: Kevin L. Conlin To: Sent:
                Message 7 of 15 , Jan 30, 2002
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                  Words of wisdom. Thanks Kevin!
                  Leonard

                  "insulate before you insolate..."


                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "Kevin L. Conlin" <kconlin@...>
                  To: <hreg@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 12:10 PM
                  Subject: Re: [hreg] www.shiftpower.org calculator


                  > These numbers are realistic, Houston averages between 4.6 and 4.8 annual
                  > peak sun hours for a non tracking array. After conversion losses, you
                  will
                  > produce about 75 to 80% of your rated array output. Peoples perception of
                  > our "sunny" climate and the actual numbers are often disputed, I get that
                  > all the time with my customers, but the reality is we have relatively weak
                  > sunshine compared to the rest of the US southwest.
                  > With the humidity, it's the worst of both worlds, requiring more power to
                  > cool the house than in less humid parts of the country. Combine that with
                  > the fact that we build horribly designed and inefficient homes with
                  minimal
                  > insulation, that is the main reason I don't think PV powered homes are
                  > practical yet in this area. I know that's not what a lot of folks want to
                  > hear, but that's the truth. Design an efficient, passive solar home with
                  a
                  > geothermal cooling system and other energy efficient devices, such as
                  > LaVerne Williams, Bob Batho and Mac Holder have been advocating for years,
                  > and you have a reasonable chance of pulling it off. Slap it on your
                  average
                  > spec home, and you've wasted a lot of money.
                  >
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: <tigger@...>
                  > To: <hreg@yahoogroups.com>
                  > Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 9:24 PM
                  > Subject: RE: [hreg] www.shiftpower.org calculator
                  >
                  >
                  > > I guess I just expected more. I mean, for what it would cost for a 5KW
                  > > system, with that kind of payback, it just doesn't really seem worth it.
                  > > Maybe I'm missing something on that side. And I gotta admit that, having
                  > > grown up on the South Texas Coast, 4 hours of decent sun a day seems a
                  > > little on the low side. Not that I'm doubting the numbers. It just
                  > > intuitively seems like it should be more than that. Hmm...maybe I should
                  > > move back to Corpus Christi and invest in wind power. 8-)
                  > >
                  > > Paul
                  > >
                  > > PS. Is there anyone on the list using a PV system in the Houston area
                  that
                  > > can provide some hard, real-life numbers?
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Robert Johnston wrote:
                  > >
                  > > > The PV gurus can straighten us both out, but I thought I read
                  somewhere
                  > > > that the Houston area could count on an average of about 4 hours of
                  > > > power per day (e.g., if you take the integral of all the power
                  generated
                  > > > in a day and divide by the peak power rating, you'd get around 4
                  hours).
                  > > > That would be about 20 kwh/day, or 600 kwh/month. At current prices
                  > > > (~$0.08/kwh), that would be worth around $48 in savings (assuming you
                  > > > use >2100 kwh/month, since many utilities have price breaks at the
                  1500
                  > > > kwh level). Anybody else want to take a crack at this?
                  > > >
                  > > > Robert Johnston
                  > > >
                  > > > > -----Original Message-----
                  > > > > From: tigger@... [mailto:tigger@...]
                  > > > > Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 6:08 PM
                  > > > > To: Houston RE Group
                  > > > > Subject: [hreg] www.shiftpower.org calculator
                  > > > >
                  > > > > I just took a look at the calculator at Power Shift that's supposed
                  to
                  > > > > show
                  > > > > you how much you'd save if you had a solar PV system. I think that
                  > > > they
                  > > > > are
                  > > > > really misreprenting things (at least I hope so) because I put in a
                  > > > 5.0KW
                  > > > > system, and they suggested that the average monthly savings on your
                  > > > > electric
                  > > > > bill would be only about $31.
                  > > > > I can only assume that they've totally left out net metering in
                  their
                  > > > > calculations... Am I missing something here?
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Paul Archer
                  > > > >
                  > > > > --
                  > > > > ----------------------------------------------
                  > > > > "We Americans, we're a simple people...
                  > > > > but piss us off, and we'll bomb your cities."
                  > > > > --------------Robin Williams------------------
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                  > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                  > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > > --
                  > > ----------------------------------------------
                  > > "We Americans, we're a simple people...
                  > > but piss us off, and we'll bomb your cities."
                  > > --------------Robin Williams------------------
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                  http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  >
                  >
                • Polly Ledvina
                  The numbers for Houston may be realistic, but try the calculation for Phoenix, Arizona (zip code 85027). The numbers are still grim. In Phoenix it seems you
                  Message 8 of 15 , Jan 30, 2002
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                    The numbers for Houston may be realistic, but try the calculation for
                    Phoenix, Arizona (zip code 85027). The numbers are still grim. In Phoenix
                    it seems you can produce about 30% more kWh per month than Houston, but it
                    will still take over 60 yrs for a 1 kW system to pay for itself (assuming
                    the system costs $8000 per kW and zero interest on the loan to buy it). The
                    bigger the system, or if you have to pay interest, everything just gets
                    worse. Am I reading things right?

                    I think maybe the point of the website is that few people will ever buy pv
                    systems until costs are somehow reduced (or subsidized)? Or the price of
                    electricity gets much higher.

                    Polly


                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "Kevin L. Conlin" <kconlin@...>
                    To: <hreg@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 12:10 PM
                    Subject: Re: [hreg] www.shiftpower.org calculator


                    > These numbers are realistic, Houston averages between 4.6 and 4.8 annual
                    > peak sun hours for a non tracking array. After conversion losses, you
                    will
                    > produce about 75 to 80% of your rated array output. Peoples perception of
                    > our "sunny" climate and the actual numbers are often disputed, I get that
                    > all the time with my customers, but the reality is we have relatively weak
                    > sunshine compared to the rest of the US southwest.
                    > With the humidity, it's the worst of both worlds, requiring more power to
                    > cool the house than in less humid parts of the country. Combine that with
                    > the fact that we build horribly designed and inefficient homes with
                    minimal
                    > insulation, that is the main reason I don't think PV powered homes are
                    > practical yet in this area. I know that's not what a lot of folks want to
                    > hear, but that's the truth. Design an efficient, passive solar home with
                    a
                    > geothermal cooling system and other energy efficient devices, such as
                    > LaVerne Williams, Bob Batho and Mac Holder have been advocating for years,
                    > and you have a reasonable chance of pulling it off. Slap it on your
                    average
                    > spec home, and you've wasted a lot of money.
                    >
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: <tigger@...>
                    > To: <hreg@yahoogroups.com>
                    > Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 9:24 PM
                    > Subject: RE: [hreg] www.shiftpower.org calculator
                    >
                    >
                    > > I guess I just expected more. I mean, for what it would cost for a 5KW
                    > > system, with that kind of payback, it just doesn't really seem worth it.
                    > > Maybe I'm missing something on that side. And I gotta admit that, having
                    > > grown up on the South Texas Coast, 4 hours of decent sun a day seems a
                    > > little on the low side. Not that I'm doubting the numbers. It just
                    > > intuitively seems like it should be more than that. Hmm...maybe I should
                    > > move back to Corpus Christi and invest in wind power. 8-)
                    > >
                    > > Paul
                    > >
                    > > PS. Is there anyone on the list using a PV system in the Houston area
                    that
                    > > can provide some hard, real-life numbers?
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Robert Johnston wrote:
                    > >
                    > > > The PV gurus can straighten us both out, but I thought I read
                    somewhere
                    > > > that the Houston area could count on an average of about 4 hours of
                    > > > power per day (e.g., if you take the integral of all the power
                    generated
                    > > > in a day and divide by the peak power rating, you'd get around 4
                    hours).
                    > > > That would be about 20 kwh/day, or 600 kwh/month. At current prices
                    > > > (~$0.08/kwh), that would be worth around $48 in savings (assuming you
                    > > > use >2100 kwh/month, since many utilities have price breaks at the
                    1500
                    > > > kwh level). Anybody else want to take a crack at this?
                    > > >
                    > > > Robert Johnston
                    > > >
                    > > > > -----Original Message-----
                    > > > > From: tigger@... [mailto:tigger@...]
                    > > > > Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 6:08 PM
                    > > > > To: Houston RE Group
                    > > > > Subject: [hreg] www.shiftpower.org calculator
                    > > > >
                    > > > > I just took a look at the calculator at Power Shift that's supposed
                    to
                    > > > > show
                    > > > > you how much you'd save if you had a solar PV system. I think that
                    > > > they
                    > > > > are
                    > > > > really misreprenting things (at least I hope so) because I put in a
                    > > > 5.0KW
                    > > > > system, and they suggested that the average monthly savings on your
                    > > > > electric
                    > > > > bill would be only about $31.
                    > > > > I can only assume that they've totally left out net metering in
                    their
                    > > > > calculations... Am I missing something here?
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Paul Archer
                    > > > >
                    > > > > --
                    > > > > ----------------------------------------------
                    > > > > "We Americans, we're a simple people...
                    > > > > but piss us off, and we'll bomb your cities."
                    > > > > --------------Robin Williams------------------
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                    > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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                    > > > >
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                    > > >
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                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                    > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > > --
                    > > ----------------------------------------------
                    > > "We Americans, we're a simple people...
                    > > but piss us off, and we'll bomb your cities."
                    > > --------------Robin Williams------------------
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
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                  • Andrew McCalla
                    Polly, That s about right. PV is one of the most expensive forms of energy you can buy, at least by bottom-dollar, at-the-till, subsidies-aside calculations.
                    Message 9 of 15 , Jan 30, 2002
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                      Polly,

                      That's about right. PV is one of the most expensive forms of energy you
                      can buy, at least by bottom-dollar, at-the-till, subsidies-aside calculations.

                      The cheapest energy you can buy is the energy you don't buy in the first
                      place, through efficiency and conservation.

                      Andrew


                      At 08:49 AM 1/30/02 -0600, you wrote:
                      >I don't get it. Right now they are making solar look like the most
                      >EXPENSIVE form of energy you can buy. I tired it for an Austin zip code
                      >also - things didn't improve very much.
                      >
                      >----- Original Message -----
                      >From: "Claude Foster" <ccfoster@...>
                      >To: <hreg@yahoogroups.com>
                      >Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 8:13 AM
                      >Subject: RE: [hreg] www.shiftpower.org calculator
                      >
                      >
                      > > Your calculation looks good. My calculations for a home system shows a net
                      >increase of $660 per month.
                      > >
                      > > You are correct - something is wron with their program.
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > > -----Original Message-----
                      > > > From: tigger@... [SMTP:tigger@...]
                      > > > Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 6:08 PM
                      > > > To: Houston RE Group
                      > > > Subject: [hreg] www.shiftpower.org calculator
                      > > >
                      > > > I just took a look at the calculator at Power Shift that's supposed to
                      >show
                      > > > you how much you'd save if you had a solar PV system. I think that they
                      >are
                      > > > really misreprenting things (at least I hope so) because I put in a
                      >5.0KW
                      > > > system, and they suggested that the average monthly savings on your
                      >electric
                      > > > bill would be only about $31.
                      > > > I can only assume that they've totally left out net metering in their
                      > > > calculations... Am I missing something here?
                      > > >
                      > > > Paul Archer
                      > > >
                      > > > --
                      > > > ----------------------------------------------
                      > > > "We Americans, we're a simple people...
                      > > > but piss us off, and we'll bomb your cities."
                      > > > --------------Robin Williams------------------
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                      >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

                      Andrew H. McCalla
                      Meridian Energy Systems, Inc.
                      Solar-Electric System Design, Installation, and Service.
                      P.O. Box 5810
                      Austin, TX 78763
                      Tel: 512-477-3050
                      Fax: 512-477-3035
                      www.meridiansolar.com
                    • Kevin L. Conlin
                      Very well put, Andrew! ... From: Andrew McCalla To: Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 8:39 PM Subject: Re:
                      Message 10 of 15 , Jan 31, 2002
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                        Very well put, Andrew!

                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "Andrew McCalla" <andrew@...>
                        To: <hreg@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 8:39 PM
                        Subject: Re: [hreg] www.shiftpower.org calculator


                        > Polly,
                        >
                        > That's about right. PV is one of the most expensive forms of energy you
                        > can buy, at least by bottom-dollar, at-the-till, subsidies-aside
                        calculations.
                        >
                        > The cheapest energy you can buy is the energy you don't buy in the first
                        > place, through efficiency and conservation.
                        >
                        > Andrew
                        >
                        >
                        > At 08:49 AM 1/30/02 -0600, you wrote:
                        > >I don't get it. Right now they are making solar look like the most
                        > >EXPENSIVE form of energy you can buy. I tired it for an Austin zip code
                        > >also - things didn't improve very much.
                        > >
                        > >----- Original Message -----
                        > >From: "Claude Foster" <ccfoster@...>
                        > >To: <hreg@yahoogroups.com>
                        > >Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 8:13 AM
                        > >Subject: RE: [hreg] www.shiftpower.org calculator
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > > Your calculation looks good. My calculations for a home system shows a
                        net
                        > >increase of $660 per month.
                        > > >
                        > > > You are correct - something is wron with their program.
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > > -----Original Message-----
                        > > > > From: tigger@... [SMTP:tigger@...]
                        > > > > Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 6:08 PM
                        > > > > To: Houston RE Group
                        > > > > Subject: [hreg] www.shiftpower.org calculator
                        > > > >
                        > > > > I just took a look at the calculator at Power Shift that's supposed
                        to
                        > >show
                        > > > > you how much you'd save if you had a solar PV system. I think that
                        they
                        > >are
                        > > > > really misreprenting things (at least I hope so) because I put in a
                        > >5.0KW
                        > > > > system, and they suggested that the average monthly savings on your
                        > >electric
                        > > > > bill would be only about $31.
                        > > > > I can only assume that they've totally left out net metering in
                        their
                        > > > > calculations... Am I missing something here?
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Paul Archer
                        > > > >
                        > > > > --
                        > > > > ----------------------------------------------
                        > > > > "We Americans, we're a simple people...
                        > > > > but piss us off, and we'll bomb your cities."
                        > > > > --------------Robin Williams------------------
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                        > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                        http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                        >
                        > Andrew H. McCalla
                        > Meridian Energy Systems, Inc.
                        > Solar-Electric System Design, Installation, and Service.
                        > P.O. Box 5810
                        > Austin, TX 78763
                        > Tel: 512-477-3050
                        > Fax: 512-477-3035
                        > www.meridiansolar.com
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                        >
                        >
                        >
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