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Re: [hreg] MUD in San Francisco

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  • ChasMauch@aol.com
    Historically, most cities did their own power generation, gas works , waste water treatment, and trash collection for many years until the recent trend to
    Message 1 of 9 , Nov 4, 2001
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      Historically, most cities did their own power generation, "gas works", waste water treatment, and trash collection for many years until the recent trend to privitization, and many still do. No doubt some are inefficient and corrupt but private operations are not always the answer, constantly looking for ways to provide minimally acceptable services while cutting corners and laying off workers.
      The City of Houston does its own vehicle repair - a vast and inefficient operation - but they tried privitization and decided that was even worse, with higher costs and no better service. Same with garbage collection. The city does some and contracts some out - primarily so they will have a basis for evaluating costs of private services - but there does not seem to be much to choose between the two. The idea that private enterprise is always good and government work is always bad seems to be popular but I don't necessarily agree. The city runs some pretty good wastewater treatment plants.
      In any event, what about the propositions regarding solar? If we wait for private enterprise to do it we may have a long wait. True there may be a form of subsidy involved here but it doesn't come close to the billions of dollars in subsidies that have gone to the nuclear and fossil fuel industries over the years - and still do. I say more power to them and will be pulling for all three propositions on Tuesday.
      Charlie
    • Kim & Garth Travis
      There is a third alternative, a coop, like most of us rural people use. We have an elected board and anual meetings. Basically we break even and our rates
      Message 2 of 9 , Nov 5, 2001
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        There is a third alternative, a coop, like most of us rural people use.
        We have an elected board and anual meetings. Basically we break even
        and our rates are considerably below HL&P, even with our surcharge for
        our natural gas to electric plant.
        Kim

        ChasMauch@... wrote:

        > Historically, most cities did their own power generation, "gas works",
        > waste water treatment, and trash collection for many years until the
        > recent trend to privitization, and many still do. No doubt some are
        > inefficient and corrupt but private operations are not always the
        > answer, constantly looking for ways to provide minimally acceptable
        > services while cutting corners and laying off workers.
        > The City of Houston does its own vehicle repair - a vast and inefficient
        > operation - but they tried privitization and decided that was even
        > worse, with higher costs and no better service. Same with garbage
        > collection. The city does some and contracts some out - primarily so
        > they will have a basis for evaluating costs of private services - but
        > there does not seem to be much to choose between the two. The idea that
        > private enterprise is always good and government work is always bad
        > seems to be popular but I don't necessarily agree. The city runs some
        > pretty good wastewater treatment plants.
        > In any event, what about the propositions regarding solar? If we wait
        > for private enterprise to do it we may have a long wait. True there may
        > be a form of subsidy involved here but it doesn't come close to the
        > billions of dollars in subsidies that have gone to the nuclear and
        > fossil fuel industries over the years - and still do. I say more power
        > to them and will be pulling for all three propositions on Tuesday.
        > Charlie
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      • Michelle
        Isn t this something that we could look into also? ... From: ChasMauch@aol.com To: hreg@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2001 5:25 PM Subject:
        Message 3 of 9 , Nov 5, 2001
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          Isn't this something that we could look into also?
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2001 5:25 PM
          Subject: [hreg] MUD in San Francisco

          Wow! Just read in The Nation that San Francisco is tired of being ripped off by PG&E and will be voting on creating a consumer-owned Municipal Utility District (MUD) whereby they will replace corporate control with democratic control of utilities. A MUD has operated for more than half a century in nearby Sacramento, where rates are now 30% lower than in SF. Of course the private utilities will spend big bucks fighting this but the polls show it is very popular.
          Two additional propositions on the ballot would have the city invest in solar and wind power projects on city property and issue bonds to help residents and businesses install their own solar panels and join neighbor solar initiatives. The goal is to have San Francisco lead the world in solar power.
          So this will be one to watch on election day. Wish we had something half that exciting going in Texas!
          Charlie

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        • Ryan McMullan
          Here s an interesting case of renewable energy use: http://enn.com/news/enn-stories/2001/11/11082001/s_45498.asp ... Ryan ... Ryan McMullan Recycling
          Message 4 of 9 , Nov 8, 2001
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                     Here's an interesting case of renewable energy use:
            http://enn.com/news/enn-stories/2001/11/11082001/s_45498.asp

            A growing number of America's churches are keeping the lights on with wind and solar power, generated without pollution or global warming emissions. The switch to clean power is part of an interfaith movement that promotes stewardship of the Earth as an important mission for religious peoples....

            Ryan

            --------------------------
            Ryan McMullan
            Recycling Coordinator
            Rice University
            http://www.rice.edu/recycle
            recycle@...
            (713) 348-5272

          • Polly Ledvina
            Here s an interesting case of renewable energy use: http://enn.com/news/enn-stories/2001/11/11082001/s_45498.asp A growing number of America s churches are
            Message 5 of 9 , Nov 9, 2001
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              Here's an interesting case of renewable energy use:
              http://enn.com/news/enn-stories/2001/11/11082001/s_45498.asp

              A growing number of America's churches are keeping the lights on with wind and solar power, generated without pollution or global warming emissions. The switch to clean power is part of an interfaith movement that promotes stewardship of the Earth as an important mission for religious peoples....

              Ryan, thanks for that.  Unfortunately, all don't concur.  Check out the following from this morning's NY Times:

              November 9, 2001

              Judge Blocks Evangelist's Effort to Reopen a Refinery

              By GREG WINTER

              SANTA FE SPRINGS, Calif., Nov. 8 — Browning with age, its spires slowly rusting, the old Powerine oil refinery sits dormant after decades of bellowing smoke so thick that residents complained it took the paint off their cars.

              For the last three years, Pat Robertson, the television evangelist, has been trying to start it again, but the going has been rough.

              First, Mr. Robertson accused large oil companies of intimidating bankers so they would not lend him money.

              And today, an order by a federal district judge in Los Angeles took effect, temporarily stripping the oil company that Mr. Robertson controls, Cenco Inc., of its permits and halting its plans to turn crude oil into gasoline for charitable purposes.

              "The public interest favors enforcing the Clean Air Act and protecting the environment," Judge A. Howard Matz wrote. Reopening the refinery without installing the latest pollution controls, Judge Matz added, presented "the possibility of irreparable harm."

              Although the case will probably not be decided until next year, the company said that it has complied with all environmental regulations, and is appealing the ruling.

              With $20 million from his charitable trust, Mr. Robertson formed Cenco in 1998 to buy the refinery, hoping to turn California's thirst for gasoline into a generator of revenue for his work. At the time, court records show, Mr. Robertson was Cenco's sole board member. He remains its president. Cenco estimates it will cost more than $100 million to get the refinery running.

              When Mr. Robertson's charitable trust is liquidated, his associates said, any profits from the refinery will go to charity. But they said they did not know when that might be.

              Flanking the refinery in Santa Fe Springs, about 16 miles from Los Angeles, are a hospital, a home for the elderly and an elementary school. In addition to the environmentalists who filed the lawsuit, many residents of the neighborhood, which is about 70 percent Latino, also oppose the reopening of the plant.

              Marching outside the refinery gates, protesters have accused Mr. Robertson, the founder of the Christian Coalition, of environmental racism and have dragged his effigy in the streets, depicting him with devil's horns and a pointy red tail.

              "Mr. Robertson underestimated how strongly the majority of citizens feel about reopening this refinery," said Luis Gonzalez, the town's mayor and one of the few city officials to oppose Cenco from the start. "It's one of the reasons why I got elected."

              Mr. Robertson declined to comment on the dispute, his aides said, because he was busy "praying for the nation" and did not want to "divert his attention elsewhere."

              In its second term, the Clinton administration vigorously enforced a provision of the Clean Air Act requiring companies to install the most advanced pollution controls on any new sources of emissions, whether the pollution comes from new plants, existing ones that increase their output or old plants that reopen.

              The energy industry says this enforcement has stifled its efforts to expand production, contributing to the energy disruptions of the last few years.

              The Bush administration has been sympathetic to the industry's argument and begun looking at ways to ease the environmental restraints on power plants, oil refineries and other sources of pollution.

              By a strange mixture of strategy and circumstance, the Cenco case, which has mushroomed into legal battles on both coasts, could ease them further. Cenco's lawyers have challenged in federal court in Washington the requirement that closed refineries and power plants install modern pollution controls when they reopen.

              J. Nelson Happy, who left his post as dean of the law school at Pat Robertson's Regent University to run Cenco, said that the company met all local environmental standards. In addition, he said, it has also settled a lawsuit filed by the environmental agency, providing what he said would be a road map for retrofitting the refinery.

              Yet environmentalists were able to get Judge Matz to block the refinery's operations.

              "It's an important case because it has the potential to greatly increase air pollution," said David G. Hawkins, a director at the Natural Resources Defense Council and the leader of Environmental Protection Agency's air pollution division in the Carter administration. "In many cases, these older facilities shut down to avoid putting on modern pollution controls."

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            • thaisgurich@aol.com
              Rev. Sally Bingham spoke at a Global Warming Forum here in Houston back on Oct. 22nd. The forum was sponsored by Cool Texas Network (www.coolTexas.net), a
              Message 6 of 9 , Nov 9, 2001
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                Rev. Sally Bingham spoke at a Global Warming Forum here in Houston back on Oct. 22nd.  The forum was sponsored by Cool Texas Network (www.coolTexas.net), a coalition of environmental and religious organizations.  Rev. Bingham is a wonderful speaker.  She spoke of starting a renewable energy iniative among churches here in TX, as well.        
              • mike.ewert@att.net
                Here is what happened in San Fransisco. http://www.irecusa.org/ ... works , waste ... recent trend ... and ... constantly looking ... corners and ...
                Message 7 of 9 , Nov 19, 2001
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                  Here is what happened in San Fransisco.
                  http://www.irecusa.org/
                  --- In hreg@y..., ChasMauch@a... wrote:
                  > Historically, most cities did their own power generation, "gas
                  works", waste
                  > water treatment, and trash collection for many years until the
                  recent trend
                  > to privitization, and many still do. No doubt some are inefficient
                  and
                  > corrupt but private operations are not always the answer,
                  constantly looking
                  > for ways to provide minimally acceptable services while cutting
                  corners and
                  > laying off workers.
                  > The City of Houston does its own vehicle repair - a vast and
                  inefficient
                  > operation - but they tried privitization and decided that was even
                  worse,
                  > with higher costs and no better service. Same with garbage
                  collection. The
                  > city does some and contracts some out - primarily so they will have
                  a basis
                  > for evaluating costs of private services - but there does not seem
                  to be much
                  > to choose between the two. The idea that private enterprise is
                  always good
                  > and government work is always bad seems to be popular but I don't
                  necessarily
                  > agree. The city runs some pretty good wastewater treatment plants.
                  > In any event, what about the propositions regarding solar? If we
                  wait for
                  > private enterprise to do it we may have a long wait. True there may
                  be a form
                  > of subsidy involved here but it doesn't come close to the billions
                  of dollars
                  > in subsidies that have gone to the nuclear and fossil fuel
                  industries over
                  > the years - and still do. I say more power to them and will be
                  pulling for
                  > all three propositions on Tuesday.
                  > Charlie
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