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RE: [hreg] Solar Backup System - comment

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  • kevin conlin
    Excellent answer, Jim, well written and very helpful I learned a lot, thank you Kevin Kevin Conlin Heliosolar Design Inc 13534 Quetzal Houston TX 77083-3525
    Message 1 of 9 , Aug 24, 2012
    • 0 Attachment

      Excellent answer, Jim, well written and very helpful

       

      I learned a lot, thank you

       

       

      Kevin

       

      Kevin Conlin

      Heliosolar Design Inc

      13534 Quetzal

      Houston TX 77083-3525

      kevin@...

      281 202 9629

       

      From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Duncan
      Sent: Friday, August 24, 2012 10:07 PM
      To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [hreg] Solar Backup System

       

       

      Kathy

      The Sunny Island also works very well for grid-tied battery backup systems as well as off-grid. The real advantage of the SI or other similar inverter/chargers is that the system will isolate itself from the grid the instant that there is a blackout but will continue to allow the PV array and inverter to work normally as long as the sun is shining. This is known s islanding.

      The SI acts as the grid “fooling” the Sunny Boy inverter into staying in operation and charging the battery bank while powering loads thru the inverter. This turns your system into an off/grid system with all of your critical loads powered by the batteries.

      When the grid power returns the SI reconnects to the grid and grid power will recharge the batteries where they await the next grid outage.

      The Sunny Boy grid-tie inverters work flawlessly with the SI and will communicate with them in several important ways during islanding. The SI also works with some non-SMA inverters but does not communicate with them.

      They are expensive but it’s about as simple a solution to battery backup as you’ll find in the US market.

      One thing to consider concerning an oversized inverter to accommodate more PV in the future, The modules that you used on the first system may not be available in a few years. Also an oversized inverter in a hot climate may tend to shut down during very hot days since the PV voltage will be reduced due to the high temps. If the PV voltage falls below the minimum input level of the inverters DC input the inverter will shut down. This also might happen if it’s cloudy or just a passing cloud on a hot day.

      Your installer should have warned you of the potential loss of power due to voltage drop in these situations.

      Regards                                                                            

      Jim Duncan

      North Texas Renewable Energy Inc

      www.ntrei.com

      NABCEP PV 031310-57

      TECL-27398

      ntrei@...

      817.917.0527

       

       

       

       

      From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris and Kathy Denison
      Sent: Friday, August 24, 2012 1:46 PM
      To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [hreg] Solar Backup System

       

       

      Hello,
      would appreciate some input on this.  We have a grid tied, 5k solar array and are waiting a year to get an idea how much electricity we'll use per annum. Our 1250sq home is all electric with geothermal cooling/heating (we're in south Texas).  We plan to add more panels next year to come close to our annual usage, perhaps another 3-4k (we had the larger SMA inverter installed to accommodate additional panels).

      So if the grid goes down, the panels automatically shut off for safety. Meanwhile we have no power despite the panels sat up top so would need a generator for the basics (fridge, freezer, PC, lights, etc).  Seems a little crazy to have panels up there we can't utilize during the day. Ideally would like to use something like the SMA Sunny Backup (SB) which has a small battery array just to keep basics going thru the night. In daylight, the panels are back to operating and powering the house and recharging the batteries.  Basically we're looking for a hybrid system so are covered for all eventualities (the house has been pre wired to accommodate this possibility).

      Some of you have suggested the Sunny Island but understand this is designed primarily for off grid and is considerably more expensive than the Sunny Backup, plus needs a different, more expensive inverter.  Also that the panels to first recharge the large battery array before powering the house, then any surplus leccies go to the grid. The SB costs about $2800 in Europe.

      Innovative electricity insurance for private homes: as an add-on to the PV plant, the Sunny Backup set S switches automatically to off-grid mode within 50 milliseconds in the event of grid failure. Whether in summer or winter, if the power goes out, owners of small to medium-sized PV plants and inverters from SMA can supply their most important consumer loads themselves. Our affordable complete solution is suitable for both new PV plants as well as existing PV plants, which can be easily retrofitted with our certified Sunny Backup set S.

      SMA in the USA told me the SB is not UL listed and 50hz so can't be used here.  But surely there's a market in the US for this?  The technology is there, how difficult is it to re-engineer for the US market?   I'm not an engineer, am I not understanding some basics?
      http://www.sma.de/en/products/backup-systems/sunny-backup-set-s.html
      http://www.solarshop-europe.net/product_info.php?products_id=1526

      Thank you, Kathy

    • Gabriele Harbich
      Did anyone see the PBS show everyday Edison s this morning? It was all about PV fabric. You can go to everydayedisons. com to find out more. It has huge
      Message 2 of 9 , Aug 25, 2012
      • 0 Attachment
        Did anyone see the PBS show everyday Edison's this morning?
        It was all about PV fabric.  You can go to everydayedisons. com 
        to find out more.  It has huge possibilities for implementations, 
        When I saw it I thought solar yurts or tents.  The
        Big one is polymer fabric for surfaces like cars.
        Think Houston heat and using your car at a reverse 
        Charging station to give back to the grid.

        Sent from my iPhone

        On Aug 24, 2012, at 10:59 PM, "kevin conlin" <kevin@...> wrote:

         

        Excellent answer, Jim, well written and very helpful

         

        I learned a lot, thank you

         

         

        Kevin

         

        Kevin Conlin

        Heliosolar Design Inc

        13534 Quetzal

        Houston TX 77083-3525

        kevin@...

        281 202 9629

         

        From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Duncan
        Sent: Friday, August 24, 2012 10:07 PM
        To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [hreg] Solar Backup System

         

         

        Kathy

        The Sunny Island also works very well for grid-tied battery backup systems as well as off-grid. The real advantage of the SI or other similar inverter/chargers is that the system will isolate itself from the grid the instant that there is a blackout but will continue to allow the PV array and inverter to work normally as long as the sun is shining. This is known s islanding.

        The SI acts as the grid “fooling” the Sunny Boy inverter into staying in operation and charging the battery bank while powering loads thru the inverter. This turns your system into an off/grid system with all of your critical loads powered by the batteries.

        When the grid power returns the SI reconnects to the grid and grid power will recharge the batteries where they await the next grid outage.

        The Sunny Boy grid-tie inverters work flawlessly with the SI and will communicate with them in several important ways during islanding. The SI also works with some non-SMA inverters but does not communicate with them.

        They are expensive but it’s about as simple a solution to battery backup as you’ll find in the US market.

        One thing to consider concerning an oversized inverter to accommodate more PV in the future, The modules that you used on the first system may not be available in a few years. Also an oversized inverter in a hot climate may tend to shut down during very hot days since the PV voltage will be reduced due to the high temps. If the PV voltage falls below the minimum input level of the inverters DC input the inverter will shut down. This also might happen if it’s cloudy or just a passing cloud on a hot day.

        Your installer should have warned you of the potential loss of power due to voltage drop in these situations.

        Regards                                                                            

        Jim Duncan

        North Texas Renewable Energy Inc

        www.ntrei.com

        NABCEP PV 031310-57

        TECL-27398

        ntrei@...

        817.917.0527

         

         

         

         

        From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris and Kathy Denison
        Sent: Friday, August 24, 2012 1:46 PM
        To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [hreg] Solar Backup System

         

         

        Hello,
        would appreciate some input on this.  We have a grid tied, 5k solar array and are waiting a year to get an idea how much electricity we'll use per annum. Our 1250sq home is all electric with geothermal cooling/heating (we're in south Texas).  We plan to add more panels next year to come close to our annual usage, perhaps another 3-4k (we had the larger SMA inverter installed to accommodate additional panels).

        So if the grid goes down, the panels automatically shut off for safety. Meanwhile we have no power despite the panels sat up top so would need a generator for the basics (fridge, freezer, PC, lights, etc).  Seems a little crazy to have panels up there we can't utilize during the day. Ideally would like to use something like the SMA Sunny Backup (SB) which has a small battery array just to keep basics going thru the night. In daylight, the panels are back to operating and powering the house and recharging the batteries.  Basically we're looking for a hybrid system so are covered for all eventualities (the house has been pre wired to accommodate this possibility).

        Some of you have suggested the Sunny Island but understand this is designed primarily for off grid and is considerably more expensive than the Sunny Backup, plus needs a different, more expensive inverter.  Also that the panels to first recharge the large battery array before powering the house, then any surplus leccies go to the grid. The SB costs about $2800 in Europe.

        Innovative electricity insurance for private homes: as an add-on to the PV plant, the Sunny Backup set S switches automatically to off-grid mode within 50 milliseconds in the event of grid failure. Whether in summer or winter, if the power goes out, owners of small to medium-sized PV plants and inverters from SMA can supply their most important consumer loads themselves. Our affordable complete solution is suitable for both new PV plants as well as existing PV plants, which can be easily retrofitted with our certified Sunny Backup set S.

        SMA in the USA told me the SB is not UL listed and 50hz so can't be used here.  But surely there's a market in the US for this?  The technology is there, how difficult is it to re-engineer for the US market?   I'm not an engineer, am I not understanding some basics?
        http://www.sma.de/en/products/backup-systems/sunny-backup-set-s.html
        http://www.solarshop-europe.net/product_info.php?products_id=1526

        Thank you, Kathy

      • Ralph Parrott
        Can you find a link to the show and post it here? Ralph Parrott President cid:image005.jpg@01CCCB84.4804D6A0 http://houstonrenewableenergy.org IMPORTANT
        Message 3 of 9 , Aug 26, 2012
        • 0 Attachment

          Can you find a link to the show and post it here?

           

          Ralph Parrott

          President

          cid:image005.jpg@01CCCB84.4804D6A0

          http://houstonrenewableenergy.org

           

          IMPORTANT NOTICE: This transmission (including all attached pages) is intended only for the use of the named address(es), and may contain information that is privileged or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not a named addressee, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distributing or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please destroy all copies and notify us immediately at this telephone number: (713) 595-6375. Thank you!

           

          From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gabriele Harbich
          Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2012 8:59 AM
          To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
          Cc: <hreg@yahoogroups.com>
          Subject: Re: [hreg] Solar Backup System - comment

           

           

          Did anyone see the PBS show everyday Edison's this morning?

          It was all about PV fabric.  You can go to everydayedisons. com 

          to find out more.  It has huge possibilities for implementations, 

          When I saw it I thought solar yurts or tents.  The

          Big one is polymer fabric for surfaces like cars.

          Think Houston heat and using your car at a reverse 

          Charging station to give back to the grid.

          Sent from my iPhone


          On Aug 24, 2012, at 10:59 PM, "kevin conlin" <kevin@...> wrote:

           

          Excellent answer, Jim, well written and very helpful

           

          I learned a lot, thank you

           

           

          Kevin

           

          Kevin Conlin

          Heliosolar Design Inc

          13534 Quetzal

          Houston TX 77083-3525

          kevin@...

          281 202 9629

           

          From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Duncan
          Sent: Friday, August 24, 2012 10:07 PM
          To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: [hreg] Solar Backup System

           

           

          Kathy

          The Sunny Island also works very well for grid-tied battery backup systems as well as off-grid. The real advantage of the SI or other similar inverter/chargers is that the system will isolate itself from the grid the instant that there is a blackout but will continue to allow the PV array and inverter to work normally as long as the sun is shining. This is known s islanding.

          The SI acts as the grid “fooling” the Sunny Boy inverter into staying in operation and charging the battery bank while powering loads thru the inverter. This turns your system into an off/grid system with all of your critical loads powered by the batteries.

          When the grid power returns the SI reconnects to the grid and grid power will recharge the batteries where they await the next grid outage.

          The Sunny Boy grid-tie inverters work flawlessly with the SI and will communicate with them in several important ways during islanding. The SI also works with some non-SMA inverters but does not communicate with them.

          They are expensive but it’s about as simple a solution to battery backup as you’ll find in the US market.

          One thing to consider concerning an oversized inverter to accommodate more PV in the future, The modules that you used on the first system may not be available in a few years. Also an oversized inverter in a hot climate may tend to shut down during very hot days since the PV voltage will be reduced due to the high temps. If the PV voltage falls below the minimum input level of the inverters DC input the inverter will shut down. This also might happen if it’s cloudy or just a passing cloud on a hot day.

          Your installer should have warned you of the potential loss of power due to voltage drop in these situations.

          Regards                                                                            

          Jim Duncan

          North Texas Renewable Energy Inc

          www.ntrei.com

          NABCEP PV 031310-57

          TECL-27398

          ntrei@...

          817.917.0527

           

           

           

           

          From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris and Kathy Denison
          Sent: Friday, August 24, 2012 1:46 PM
          To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [hreg] Solar Backup System

           

           

          Hello,
          would appreciate some input on this.  We have a grid tied, 5k solar array and are waiting a year to get an idea how much electricity we'll use per annum. Our 1250sq home is all electric with geothermal cooling/heating (we're in south Texas).  We plan to add more panels next year to come close to our annual usage, perhaps another 3-4k (we had the larger SMA inverter installed to accommodate additional panels).

          So if the grid goes down, the panels automatically shut off for safety. Meanwhile we have no power despite the panels sat up top so would need a generator for the basics (fridge, freezer, PC, lights, etc).  Seems a little crazy to have panels up there we can't utilize during the day. Ideally would like to use something like the SMA Sunny Backup (SB) which has a small battery array just to keep basics going thru the night. In daylight, the panels are back to operating and powering the house and recharging the batteries.  Basically we're looking for a hybrid system so are covered for all eventualities (the house has been pre wired to accommodate this possibility).

          Some of you have suggested the Sunny Island but understand this is designed primarily for off grid and is considerably more expensive than the Sunny Backup, plus needs a different, more expensive inverter.  Also that the panels to first recharge the large battery array before powering the house, then any surplus leccies go to the grid. The SB costs about $2800 in Europe.

          Innovative electricity insurance for private homes: as an add-on to the PV plant, the Sunny Backup set S switches automatically to off-grid mode within 50 milliseconds in the event of grid failure. Whether in summer or winter, if the power goes out, owners of small to medium-sized PV plants and inverters from SMA can supply their most important consumer loads themselves. Our affordable complete solution is suitable for both new PV plants as well as existing PV plants, which can be easily retrofitted with our certified Sunny Backup set S.

          SMA in the USA told me the SB is not UL listed and 50hz so can't be used here.  But surely there's a market in the US for this?  The technology is there, how difficult is it to re-engineer for the US market?   I'm not an engineer, am I not understanding some basics?
          http://www.sma.de/en/products/backup-systems/sunny-backup-set-s.html
          http://www.solarshop-europe.net/product_info.php?products_id=1526

          Thank you, Kathy

        • Andrew McCalla
          Greg, Great site, thanks for sharing. Andrew From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Greg Tinkler Sent: Friday, August 24, 2012
          Message 4 of 9 , Aug 27, 2012
          • 0 Attachment

            Greg,

             

            Great site, thanks for sharing.

             

            Andrew

             

             

             

            From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Greg Tinkler
            Sent: Friday, August 24, 2012 1:53 PM
            To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [hreg] Solar Backup System

             

             

            http://www.brightleafpower.com/

             

            From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris and Kathy Denison
            Sent: Friday, August 24, 2012 1:46 PM
            To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [hreg] Solar Backup System

             

             

            Hello,
            would appreciate some input on this.  We have a grid tied, 5k solar array and are waiting a year to get an idea how much electricity we'll use per annum. Our 1250sq home is all electric with geothermal cooling/heating (we're in south Texas).  We plan to add more panels next year to come close to our annual usage, perhaps another 3-4k (we had the larger SMA inverter installed to accommodate additional panels).

            So if the grid goes down, the panels automatically shut off for safety. Meanwhile we have no power despite the panels sat up top so would need a generator for the basics (fridge, freezer, PC, lights, etc).  Seems a little crazy to have panels up there we can't utilize during the day. Ideally would like to use something like the SMA Sunny Backup (SB) which has a small battery array just to keep basics going thru the night. In daylight, the panels are back to operating and powering the house and recharging the batteries.  Basically we're looking for a hybrid system so are covered for all eventualities (the house has been pre wired to accommodate this possibility).

            Some of you have suggested the Sunny Island but understand this is designed primarily for off grid and is considerably more expensive than the Sunny Backup, plus needs a different, more expensive inverter.  Also that the panels to first recharge the large battery array before powering the house, then any surplus leccies go to the grid. The SB costs about $2800 in Europe.

            Innovative electricity insurance for private homes: as an add-on to the PV plant, the Sunny Backup set S switches automatically to off-grid mode within 50 milliseconds in the event of grid failure. Whether in summer or winter, if the power goes out, owners of small to medium-sized PV plants and inverters from SMA can supply their most important consumer loads themselves. Our affordable complete solution is suitable for both new PV plants as well as existing PV plants, which can be easily retrofitted with our certified Sunny Backup set S.

            SMA in the USA told me the SB is not UL listed and 50hz so can't be used here.  But surely there's a market in the US for this?  The technology is there, how difficult is it to re-engineer for the US market?   I'm not an engineer, am I not understanding some basics?
            http://www.sma.de/en/products/backup-systems/sunny-backup-set-s.html
            http://www.solarshop-europe.net/product_info.php?products_id=1526

            Thank you, Kathy



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