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Solar Backup System

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  • Chris and Kathy Denison
    Hello, would appreciate some input on this. We have a grid tied, 5k solar array and are waiting a year to get an idea how much electricity we ll use per
    Message 1 of 9 , Aug 24 11:45 AM
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      Hello,
      would appreciate some input on this.  We have a grid tied, 5k solar array and are waiting a year to get an idea how much electricity we'll use per annum. Our 1250sq home is all electric with geothermal cooling/heating (we're in south Texas).  We plan to add more panels next year to come close to our annual usage, perhaps another 3-4k (we had the larger SMA inverter installed to accommodate additional panels).

      So if the grid goes down, the panels automatically shut off for safety. Meanwhile we have no power despite the panels sat up top so would need a generator for the basics (fridge, freezer, PC, lights, etc).  Seems a little crazy to have panels up there we can't utilize during the day. Ideally would like to use something like the SMA Sunny Backup (SB) which has a small battery array just to keep basics going thru the night. In daylight, the panels are back to operating and powering the house and recharging the batteries.  Basically we're looking for a hybrid system so are covered for all eventualities (the house has been pre wired to accommodate this possibility).

      Some of you have suggested the Sunny Island but understand this is designed primarily for off grid and is considerably more expensive than the Sunny Backup, plus needs a different, more expensive inverter.  Also that the panels to first recharge the large battery array before powering the house, then any surplus leccies go to the grid. The SB costs about $2800 in Europe.

      Innovative electricity insurance for private homes: as an add-on to the PV plant, the Sunny Backup set S switches automatically to off-grid mode within 50 milliseconds in the event of grid failure. Whether in summer or winter, if the power goes out, owners of small to medium-sized PV plants and inverters from SMA can supply their most important consumer loads themselves. Our affordable complete solution is suitable for both new PV plants as well as existing PV plants, which can be easily retrofitted with our certified Sunny Backup set S.

      SMA in the USA told me the SB is not UL listed and 50hz so can't be used here.  But surely there's a market in the US for this?  The technology is there, how difficult is it to re-engineer for the US market?   I'm not an engineer, am I not understanding some basics?
      http://www.sma.de/en/products/backup-systems/sunny-backup-set-s.html
      http://www.solarshop-europe.net/product_info.php?products_id=1526

      Thank you, Kathy

    • Greg Tinkler
      http://www.brightleafpower.com/ From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris and Kathy Denison Sent: Friday, August 24, 2012
      Message 2 of 9 , Aug 24 11:52 AM
      • 0 Attachment

        http://www.brightleafpower.com/

         

        From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris and Kathy Denison
        Sent: Friday, August 24, 2012 1:46 PM
        To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [hreg] Solar Backup System

         

         

        Hello,
        would appreciate some input on this.  We have a grid tied, 5k solar array and are waiting a year to get an idea how much electricity we'll use per annum. Our 1250sq home is all electric with geothermal cooling/heating (we're in south Texas).  We plan to add more panels next year to come close to our annual usage, perhaps another 3-4k (we had the larger SMA inverter installed to accommodate additional panels).

        So if the grid goes down, the panels automatically shut off for safety. Meanwhile we have no power despite the panels sat up top so would need a generator for the basics (fridge, freezer, PC, lights, etc).  Seems a little crazy to have panels up there we can't utilize during the day. Ideally would like to use something like the SMA Sunny Backup (SB) which has a small battery array just to keep basics going thru the night. In daylight, the panels are back to operating and powering the house and recharging the batteries.  Basically we're looking for a hybrid system so are covered for all eventualities (the house has been pre wired to accommodate this possibility).

        Some of you have suggested the Sunny Island but understand this is designed primarily for off grid and is considerably more expensive than the Sunny Backup, plus needs a different, more expensive inverter.  Also that the panels to first recharge the large battery array before powering the house, then any surplus leccies go to the grid. The SB costs about $2800 in Europe.

        Innovative electricity insurance for private homes: as an add-on to the PV plant, the Sunny Backup set S switches automatically to off-grid mode within 50 milliseconds in the event of grid failure. Whether in summer or winter, if the power goes out, owners of small to medium-sized PV plants and inverters from SMA can supply their most important consumer loads themselves. Our affordable complete solution is suitable for both new PV plants as well as existing PV plants, which can be easily retrofitted with our certified Sunny Backup set S.

        SMA in the USA told me the SB is not UL listed and 50hz so can't be used here.  But surely there's a market in the US for this?  The technology is there, how difficult is it to re-engineer for the US market?   I'm not an engineer, am I not understanding some basics?

        http://www.sma.de/en/products/backup-systems/sunny-backup-set-s.html
        http://www.solarshop-europe.net/product_info.php?products_id=1526

        Thank you, Kathy



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      • Jay Ring
        It can sort-of be done, but it s not worth the trouble. I recommend the Xantrex XW6048 instead. It does almost exactly the same thing as what you want in the
        Message 3 of 9 , Aug 24 11:56 AM
        • 0 Attachment
          It can sort-of be done, but it's not worth the trouble.

          I recommend the Xantrex XW6048 instead. It does almost exactly the same thing as what you want in the SB.

          It can grid tie and do battery backup.

          It's about $3,000 - and close to the same price, and it works out of the box; directly supporting US voltage and frequency.

          If you want to save a little money, consider the XW4024 instead. It's about $400 cheaper, and uses a 24V battery bank, so you save money on batteries too.

          You do not need a lot of batteries, but you need a minimal amount. It has more to do with "smoothing" out the power than it does "storage". That's a extremely simplified explanation, but all units need at least a minimal battery attached, even if you aren't really using them.






          --- In hreg@yahoogroups.com, Chris and Kathy Denison <ckdenison@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hello,
          > would appreciate some input on this. We have a grid tied, 5k solar
          > array and are waiting a year to get an idea how much electricity we'll
          > use per annum. Our 1250sq home is all electric with geothermal
          > cooling/heating (we're in south Texas). We plan to add more panels next
          > year to come close to our annual usage, perhaps another 3-4k (we had the
          > larger SMA inverter installed to accommodate additional panels).
          >
          > So if the grid goes down, the panels automatically shut off for safety.
          > Meanwhile we have no power despite the panels sat up top so would need a
          > generator for the basics (fridge, freezer, PC, lights, etc). Seems a
          > little crazy to have panels up there we can't utilize during the day.
          > Ideally would like to use something like the SMA Sunny Backup (SB) which
          > has a small battery array just to keep basics going thru the night. In
          > daylight, the panels are back to operating and powering the house and
          > recharging the batteries. Basically we're looking for a hybrid system
          > so are covered for all eventualities (the house has been pre wired to
          > accommodate this possibility).
          >
          > Some of you have suggested the Sunny Island but understand this is
          > designed primarily for off grid and is considerably more expensive than
          > the Sunny Backup, plus needs a different, more expensive inverter. Also
          > that the panels to first recharge the large battery array before
          > powering the house, then any surplus leccies go to the grid. The SB
          > costs about $2800 in Europe.
          >
          > Innovative electricity insurance for private homes: as an add-on to the
          > PV plant, the Sunny Backup set S switches automatically to off-grid mode
          > within 50 milliseconds in the event of grid failure. Whether in summer
          > or winter, if the power goes out, owners of small to medium-sized PV
          > plants and inverters from SMA can supply their most important consumer
          > loads themselves. Our affordable complete solution is suitable for both
          > new PV plants as well as existing PV plants, which can be easily
          > retrofitted with our certified Sunny Backup set S.
          >
          > SMA in the USA told me the SB is not UL listed and 50hz so can't be used
          > here. But surely there's a market in the US for this? The technology
          > is there, how difficult is it to re-engineer for the US market? I'm not
          > an engineer, am I not understanding some basics?
          > http://www.sma.de/en/products/backup-systems/sunny-backup-set-s.html
          > http://www.solarshop-europe.net/product_info.php?products_id=1526
          >
          > Thank you, Kathy
          >
        • Gary Beck
          Kathy, I find it interesting that you to the steps/expense of pre wiring to accommodate this possibility . Did your add a AC circuit for a backup generator or
          Message 4 of 9 , Aug 24 4:38 PM
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            Kathy,

             

            I find it interesting that you to the steps/expense of "pre wiring to accommodate this possibility". 

             

            Did your add a AC circuit for a backup generator or a circuit just for DC power? I used to suggest the idea of a new house dual wiring consisting of a back up DC lighting circuit just for the use of DC battery power situation. There are also some small DC powered appliances like a refrigerator.

             

            But the lack of DC appliances, the low cost of clean natrural gas fueled backup generators, and AC power flexibility  make an auxilairy AC circuit make more sense.

             

            How extensive is your hybrid wiring circuit? Can you share your thinking and decision process on this circuit?

             

            Thanks

             

            Gary Beck, P.E., SECB, LEED AP

            Eco-Holdings LLC (F-7395) Tel: 713-377-4209 Fax: 832-201-5338

            4010 Blue Bonnet Blvd. Suite 114  Houston, Texas 77025

            ~All Eco emails and attachments are confidential. If it was not sent to or copied directly to you for work purposes, please delete it~

             

             

             

             

            From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jay Ring
            Sent: Friday, August 24, 2012 1:57 PM
            To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [hreg] Re: Solar Backup System

             

             

            It can sort-of be done, but it's not worth the trouble.

            I recommend the Xantrex XW6048 instead. It does almost exactly the same thing as what you want in the SB.

            It can grid tie and do battery backup.

            It's about $3,000 - and close to the same price, and it works out of the box; directly supporting US voltage and frequency.

            If you want to save a little money, consider the XW4024 instead. It's about $400 cheaper, and uses a 24V battery bank, so you save money on batteries too.

            You do not need a lot of batteries, but you need a minimal amount. It has more to do with "smoothing" out the power than it does "storage". That's a extremely simplified explanation, but all units need at least a minimal battery attached, even if you aren't really using them.

            --- In hreg@yahoogroups.com, Chris and Kathy Denison <ckdenison@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hello,
            > would appreciate some input on this. We have a grid tied, 5k solar
            > array and are waiting a year to get an idea how much electricity we'll
            > use per annum. Our 1250sq home is all electric with geothermal
            > cooling/heating (we're in south Texas). We plan to add more panels next
            > year to come close to our annual usage, perhaps another 3-4k (we had the
            > larger SMA inverter installed to accommodate additional panels).
            >
            > So if the grid goes down, the panels automatically shut off for safety.
            > Meanwhile we have no power despite the panels sat up top so would need a
            > generator for the basics (fridge, freezer, PC, lights, etc). Seems a
            > little crazy to have panels up there we can't utilize during the day.
            > Ideally would like to use something like the SMA Sunny Backup (SB) which
            > has a small battery array just to keep basics going thru the night. In
            > daylight, the panels are back to operating and powering the house and
            > recharging the batteries. Basically we're looking for a hybrid system
            > so are covered for all eventualities (the house has been pre wired to
            > accommodate this possibility).
            >
            > Some of you have suggested the Sunny Island but understand this is
            > designed primarily for off grid and is considerably more expensive than
            > the Sunny Backup, plus needs a different, more expensive inverter. Also
            > that the panels to first recharge the large battery array before
            > powering the house, then any surplus leccies go to the grid. The SB
            > costs about $2800 in Europe.
            >
            > Innovative electricity insurance for private homes: as an add-on to the
            > PV plant, the Sunny Backup set S switches automatically to off-grid mode
            > within 50 milliseconds in the event of grid failure. Whether in summer
            > or winter, if the power goes out, owners of small to medium-sized PV
            > plants and inverters from SMA can supply their most important consumer
            > loads themselves. Our affordable complete solution is suitable for both
            > new PV plants as well as existing PV plants, which can be easily
            > retrofitted with our certified Sunny Backup set S.
            >
            > SMA in the USA told me the SB is not UL listed and 50hz so can't be used
            > here. But surely there's a market in the US for this? The technology
            > is there, how difficult is it to re-engineer for the US market? I'm not
            > an engineer, am I not understanding some basics?
            > http://www.sma.de/en/products/backup-systems/sunny-backup-set-s.html
            > http://www.solarshop-europe.net/product_info.php?products_id=1526
            >
            > Thank you, Kathy
            >

          • Jim Duncan
            Kathy The Sunny Island also works very well for grid-tied battery backup systems as well as off-grid. The real advantage of the SI or other similar
            Message 5 of 9 , Aug 24 8:07 PM
            • 0 Attachment

              Kathy

              The Sunny Island also works very well for grid-tied battery backup systems as well as off-grid. The real advantage of the SI or other similar inverter/chargers is that the system will isolate itself from the grid the instant that there is a blackout but will continue to allow the PV array and inverter to work normally as long as the sun is shining. This is known s islanding.

              The SI acts as the grid “fooling” the Sunny Boy inverter into staying in operation and charging the battery bank while powering loads thru the inverter. This turns your system into an off/grid system with all of your critical loads powered by the batteries.

              When the grid power returns the SI reconnects to the grid and grid power will recharge the batteries where they await the next grid outage.

              The Sunny Boy grid-tie inverters work flawlessly with the SI and will communicate with them in several important ways during islanding. The SI also works with some non-SMA inverters but does not communicate with them.

              They are expensive but it’s about as simple a solution to battery backup as you’ll find in the US market.

              One thing to consider concerning an oversized inverter to accommodate more PV in the future, The modules that you used on the first system may not be available in a few years. Also an oversized inverter in a hot climate may tend to shut down during very hot days since the PV voltage will be reduced due to the high temps. If the PV voltage falls below the minimum input level of the inverters DC input the inverter will shut down. This also might happen if it’s cloudy or just a passing cloud on a hot day.

              Your installer should have warned you of the potential loss of power due to voltage drop in these situations.

              Regards                                                                            

              Jim Duncan

              North Texas Renewable Energy Inc

              www.ntrei.com

              NABCEP PV 031310-57

              TECL-27398

              ntrei@...

              817.917.0527

               

               

               

               

              From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris and Kathy Denison
              Sent: Friday, August 24, 2012 1:46 PM
              To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [hreg] Solar Backup System

               

               

              Hello,
              would appreciate some input on this.  We have a grid tied, 5k solar array and are waiting a year to get an idea how much electricity we'll use per annum. Our 1250sq home is all electric with geothermal cooling/heating (we're in south Texas).  We plan to add more panels next year to come close to our annual usage, perhaps another 3-4k (we had the larger SMA inverter installed to accommodate additional panels).

              So if the grid goes down, the panels automatically shut off for safety. Meanwhile we have no power despite the panels sat up top so would need a generator for the basics (fridge, freezer, PC, lights, etc).  Seems a little crazy to have panels up there we can't utilize during the day. Ideally would like to use something like the SMA Sunny Backup (SB) which has a small battery array just to keep basics going thru the night. In daylight, the panels are back to operating and powering the house and recharging the batteries.  Basically we're looking for a hybrid system so are covered for all eventualities (the house has been pre wired to accommodate this possibility).

              Some of you have suggested the Sunny Island but understand this is designed primarily for off grid and is considerably more expensive than the Sunny Backup, plus needs a different, more expensive inverter.  Also that the panels to first recharge the large battery array before powering the house, then any surplus leccies go to the grid. The SB costs about $2800 in Europe.

              Innovative electricity insurance for private homes: as an add-on to the PV plant, the Sunny Backup set S switches automatically to off-grid mode within 50 milliseconds in the event of grid failure. Whether in summer or winter, if the power goes out, owners of small to medium-sized PV plants and inverters from SMA can supply their most important consumer loads themselves. Our affordable complete solution is suitable for both new PV plants as well as existing PV plants, which can be easily retrofitted with our certified Sunny Backup set S.


              SMA in the USA told me the SB is not UL listed and 50hz so can't be used here.  But surely there's a market in the US for this?  The technology is there, how difficult is it to re-engineer for the US market?   I'm not an engineer, am I not understanding some basics?

              http://www.sma.de/en/products/backup-systems/sunny-backup-set-s.html
              http://www.solarshop-europe.net/product_info.php?products_id=1526

              Thank you, Kathy

            • kevin conlin
              Excellent answer, Jim, well written and very helpful I learned a lot, thank you Kevin Kevin Conlin Heliosolar Design Inc 13534 Quetzal Houston TX 77083-3525
              Message 6 of 9 , Aug 24 8:59 PM
              • 0 Attachment

                Excellent answer, Jim, well written and very helpful

                 

                I learned a lot, thank you

                 

                 

                Kevin

                 

                Kevin Conlin

                Heliosolar Design Inc

                13534 Quetzal

                Houston TX 77083-3525

                kevin@...

                281 202 9629

                 

                From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Duncan
                Sent: Friday, August 24, 2012 10:07 PM
                To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: RE: [hreg] Solar Backup System

                 

                 

                Kathy

                The Sunny Island also works very well for grid-tied battery backup systems as well as off-grid. The real advantage of the SI or other similar inverter/chargers is that the system will isolate itself from the grid the instant that there is a blackout but will continue to allow the PV array and inverter to work normally as long as the sun is shining. This is known s islanding.

                The SI acts as the grid “fooling” the Sunny Boy inverter into staying in operation and charging the battery bank while powering loads thru the inverter. This turns your system into an off/grid system with all of your critical loads powered by the batteries.

                When the grid power returns the SI reconnects to the grid and grid power will recharge the batteries where they await the next grid outage.

                The Sunny Boy grid-tie inverters work flawlessly with the SI and will communicate with them in several important ways during islanding. The SI also works with some non-SMA inverters but does not communicate with them.

                They are expensive but it’s about as simple a solution to battery backup as you’ll find in the US market.

                One thing to consider concerning an oversized inverter to accommodate more PV in the future, The modules that you used on the first system may not be available in a few years. Also an oversized inverter in a hot climate may tend to shut down during very hot days since the PV voltage will be reduced due to the high temps. If the PV voltage falls below the minimum input level of the inverters DC input the inverter will shut down. This also might happen if it’s cloudy or just a passing cloud on a hot day.

                Your installer should have warned you of the potential loss of power due to voltage drop in these situations.

                Regards                                                                            

                Jim Duncan

                North Texas Renewable Energy Inc

                www.ntrei.com

                NABCEP PV 031310-57

                TECL-27398

                ntrei@...

                817.917.0527

                 

                 

                 

                 

                From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris and Kathy Denison
                Sent: Friday, August 24, 2012 1:46 PM
                To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [hreg] Solar Backup System

                 

                 

                Hello,
                would appreciate some input on this.  We have a grid tied, 5k solar array and are waiting a year to get an idea how much electricity we'll use per annum. Our 1250sq home is all electric with geothermal cooling/heating (we're in south Texas).  We plan to add more panels next year to come close to our annual usage, perhaps another 3-4k (we had the larger SMA inverter installed to accommodate additional panels).

                So if the grid goes down, the panels automatically shut off for safety. Meanwhile we have no power despite the panels sat up top so would need a generator for the basics (fridge, freezer, PC, lights, etc).  Seems a little crazy to have panels up there we can't utilize during the day. Ideally would like to use something like the SMA Sunny Backup (SB) which has a small battery array just to keep basics going thru the night. In daylight, the panels are back to operating and powering the house and recharging the batteries.  Basically we're looking for a hybrid system so are covered for all eventualities (the house has been pre wired to accommodate this possibility).

                Some of you have suggested the Sunny Island but understand this is designed primarily for off grid and is considerably more expensive than the Sunny Backup, plus needs a different, more expensive inverter.  Also that the panels to first recharge the large battery array before powering the house, then any surplus leccies go to the grid. The SB costs about $2800 in Europe.

                Innovative electricity insurance for private homes: as an add-on to the PV plant, the Sunny Backup set S switches automatically to off-grid mode within 50 milliseconds in the event of grid failure. Whether in summer or winter, if the power goes out, owners of small to medium-sized PV plants and inverters from SMA can supply their most important consumer loads themselves. Our affordable complete solution is suitable for both new PV plants as well as existing PV plants, which can be easily retrofitted with our certified Sunny Backup set S.

                SMA in the USA told me the SB is not UL listed and 50hz so can't be used here.  But surely there's a market in the US for this?  The technology is there, how difficult is it to re-engineer for the US market?   I'm not an engineer, am I not understanding some basics?
                http://www.sma.de/en/products/backup-systems/sunny-backup-set-s.html
                http://www.solarshop-europe.net/product_info.php?products_id=1526

                Thank you, Kathy

              • Gabriele Harbich
                Did anyone see the PBS show everyday Edison s this morning? It was all about PV fabric. You can go to everydayedisons. com to find out more. It has huge
                Message 7 of 9 , Aug 25 6:59 AM
                • 0 Attachment
                  Did anyone see the PBS show everyday Edison's this morning?
                  It was all about PV fabric.  You can go to everydayedisons. com 
                  to find out more.  It has huge possibilities for implementations, 
                  When I saw it I thought solar yurts or tents.  The
                  Big one is polymer fabric for surfaces like cars.
                  Think Houston heat and using your car at a reverse 
                  Charging station to give back to the grid.

                  Sent from my iPhone

                  On Aug 24, 2012, at 10:59 PM, "kevin conlin" <kevin@...> wrote:

                   

                  Excellent answer, Jim, well written and very helpful

                   

                  I learned a lot, thank you

                   

                   

                  Kevin

                   

                  Kevin Conlin

                  Heliosolar Design Inc

                  13534 Quetzal

                  Houston TX 77083-3525

                  kevin@...

                  281 202 9629

                   

                  From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Duncan
                  Sent: Friday, August 24, 2012 10:07 PM
                  To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: RE: [hreg] Solar Backup System

                   

                   

                  Kathy

                  The Sunny Island also works very well for grid-tied battery backup systems as well as off-grid. The real advantage of the SI or other similar inverter/chargers is that the system will isolate itself from the grid the instant that there is a blackout but will continue to allow the PV array and inverter to work normally as long as the sun is shining. This is known s islanding.

                  The SI acts as the grid “fooling” the Sunny Boy inverter into staying in operation and charging the battery bank while powering loads thru the inverter. This turns your system into an off/grid system with all of your critical loads powered by the batteries.

                  When the grid power returns the SI reconnects to the grid and grid power will recharge the batteries where they await the next grid outage.

                  The Sunny Boy grid-tie inverters work flawlessly with the SI and will communicate with them in several important ways during islanding. The SI also works with some non-SMA inverters but does not communicate with them.

                  They are expensive but it’s about as simple a solution to battery backup as you’ll find in the US market.

                  One thing to consider concerning an oversized inverter to accommodate more PV in the future, The modules that you used on the first system may not be available in a few years. Also an oversized inverter in a hot climate may tend to shut down during very hot days since the PV voltage will be reduced due to the high temps. If the PV voltage falls below the minimum input level of the inverters DC input the inverter will shut down. This also might happen if it’s cloudy or just a passing cloud on a hot day.

                  Your installer should have warned you of the potential loss of power due to voltage drop in these situations.

                  Regards                                                                            

                  Jim Duncan

                  North Texas Renewable Energy Inc

                  www.ntrei.com

                  NABCEP PV 031310-57

                  TECL-27398

                  ntrei@...

                  817.917.0527

                   

                   

                   

                   

                  From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris and Kathy Denison
                  Sent: Friday, August 24, 2012 1:46 PM
                  To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [hreg] Solar Backup System

                   

                   

                  Hello,
                  would appreciate some input on this.  We have a grid tied, 5k solar array and are waiting a year to get an idea how much electricity we'll use per annum. Our 1250sq home is all electric with geothermal cooling/heating (we're in south Texas).  We plan to add more panels next year to come close to our annual usage, perhaps another 3-4k (we had the larger SMA inverter installed to accommodate additional panels).

                  So if the grid goes down, the panels automatically shut off for safety. Meanwhile we have no power despite the panels sat up top so would need a generator for the basics (fridge, freezer, PC, lights, etc).  Seems a little crazy to have panels up there we can't utilize during the day. Ideally would like to use something like the SMA Sunny Backup (SB) which has a small battery array just to keep basics going thru the night. In daylight, the panels are back to operating and powering the house and recharging the batteries.  Basically we're looking for a hybrid system so are covered for all eventualities (the house has been pre wired to accommodate this possibility).

                  Some of you have suggested the Sunny Island but understand this is designed primarily for off grid and is considerably more expensive than the Sunny Backup, plus needs a different, more expensive inverter.  Also that the panels to first recharge the large battery array before powering the house, then any surplus leccies go to the grid. The SB costs about $2800 in Europe.

                  Innovative electricity insurance for private homes: as an add-on to the PV plant, the Sunny Backup set S switches automatically to off-grid mode within 50 milliseconds in the event of grid failure. Whether in summer or winter, if the power goes out, owners of small to medium-sized PV plants and inverters from SMA can supply their most important consumer loads themselves. Our affordable complete solution is suitable for both new PV plants as well as existing PV plants, which can be easily retrofitted with our certified Sunny Backup set S.

                  SMA in the USA told me the SB is not UL listed and 50hz so can't be used here.  But surely there's a market in the US for this?  The technology is there, how difficult is it to re-engineer for the US market?   I'm not an engineer, am I not understanding some basics?
                  http://www.sma.de/en/products/backup-systems/sunny-backup-set-s.html
                  http://www.solarshop-europe.net/product_info.php?products_id=1526

                  Thank you, Kathy

                • Ralph Parrott
                  Can you find a link to the show and post it here? Ralph Parrott President cid:image005.jpg@01CCCB84.4804D6A0 http://houstonrenewableenergy.org IMPORTANT
                  Message 8 of 9 , Aug 26 5:27 PM
                  • 0 Attachment

                    Can you find a link to the show and post it here?

                     

                    Ralph Parrott

                    President

                    cid:image005.jpg@01CCCB84.4804D6A0

                    http://houstonrenewableenergy.org

                     

                    IMPORTANT NOTICE: This transmission (including all attached pages) is intended only for the use of the named address(es), and may contain information that is privileged or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not a named addressee, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distributing or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please destroy all copies and notify us immediately at this telephone number: (713) 595-6375. Thank you!

                     

                    From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gabriele Harbich
                    Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2012 8:59 AM
                    To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                    Cc: <hreg@yahoogroups.com>
                    Subject: Re: [hreg] Solar Backup System - comment

                     

                     

                    Did anyone see the PBS show everyday Edison's this morning?

                    It was all about PV fabric.  You can go to everydayedisons. com 

                    to find out more.  It has huge possibilities for implementations, 

                    When I saw it I thought solar yurts or tents.  The

                    Big one is polymer fabric for surfaces like cars.

                    Think Houston heat and using your car at a reverse 

                    Charging station to give back to the grid.

                    Sent from my iPhone


                    On Aug 24, 2012, at 10:59 PM, "kevin conlin" <kevin@...> wrote:

                     

                    Excellent answer, Jim, well written and very helpful

                     

                    I learned a lot, thank you

                     

                     

                    Kevin

                     

                    Kevin Conlin

                    Heliosolar Design Inc

                    13534 Quetzal

                    Houston TX 77083-3525

                    kevin@...

                    281 202 9629

                     

                    From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Duncan
                    Sent: Friday, August 24, 2012 10:07 PM
                    To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: RE: [hreg] Solar Backup System

                     

                     

                    Kathy

                    The Sunny Island also works very well for grid-tied battery backup systems as well as off-grid. The real advantage of the SI or other similar inverter/chargers is that the system will isolate itself from the grid the instant that there is a blackout but will continue to allow the PV array and inverter to work normally as long as the sun is shining. This is known s islanding.

                    The SI acts as the grid “fooling” the Sunny Boy inverter into staying in operation and charging the battery bank while powering loads thru the inverter. This turns your system into an off/grid system with all of your critical loads powered by the batteries.

                    When the grid power returns the SI reconnects to the grid and grid power will recharge the batteries where they await the next grid outage.

                    The Sunny Boy grid-tie inverters work flawlessly with the SI and will communicate with them in several important ways during islanding. The SI also works with some non-SMA inverters but does not communicate with them.

                    They are expensive but it’s about as simple a solution to battery backup as you’ll find in the US market.

                    One thing to consider concerning an oversized inverter to accommodate more PV in the future, The modules that you used on the first system may not be available in a few years. Also an oversized inverter in a hot climate may tend to shut down during very hot days since the PV voltage will be reduced due to the high temps. If the PV voltage falls below the minimum input level of the inverters DC input the inverter will shut down. This also might happen if it’s cloudy or just a passing cloud on a hot day.

                    Your installer should have warned you of the potential loss of power due to voltage drop in these situations.

                    Regards                                                                            

                    Jim Duncan

                    North Texas Renewable Energy Inc

                    www.ntrei.com

                    NABCEP PV 031310-57

                    TECL-27398

                    ntrei@...

                    817.917.0527

                     

                     

                     

                     

                    From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris and Kathy Denison
                    Sent: Friday, August 24, 2012 1:46 PM
                    To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [hreg] Solar Backup System

                     

                     

                    Hello,
                    would appreciate some input on this.  We have a grid tied, 5k solar array and are waiting a year to get an idea how much electricity we'll use per annum. Our 1250sq home is all electric with geothermal cooling/heating (we're in south Texas).  We plan to add more panels next year to come close to our annual usage, perhaps another 3-4k (we had the larger SMA inverter installed to accommodate additional panels).

                    So if the grid goes down, the panels automatically shut off for safety. Meanwhile we have no power despite the panels sat up top so would need a generator for the basics (fridge, freezer, PC, lights, etc).  Seems a little crazy to have panels up there we can't utilize during the day. Ideally would like to use something like the SMA Sunny Backup (SB) which has a small battery array just to keep basics going thru the night. In daylight, the panels are back to operating and powering the house and recharging the batteries.  Basically we're looking for a hybrid system so are covered for all eventualities (the house has been pre wired to accommodate this possibility).

                    Some of you have suggested the Sunny Island but understand this is designed primarily for off grid and is considerably more expensive than the Sunny Backup, plus needs a different, more expensive inverter.  Also that the panels to first recharge the large battery array before powering the house, then any surplus leccies go to the grid. The SB costs about $2800 in Europe.

                    Innovative electricity insurance for private homes: as an add-on to the PV plant, the Sunny Backup set S switches automatically to off-grid mode within 50 milliseconds in the event of grid failure. Whether in summer or winter, if the power goes out, owners of small to medium-sized PV plants and inverters from SMA can supply their most important consumer loads themselves. Our affordable complete solution is suitable for both new PV plants as well as existing PV plants, which can be easily retrofitted with our certified Sunny Backup set S.

                    SMA in the USA told me the SB is not UL listed and 50hz so can't be used here.  But surely there's a market in the US for this?  The technology is there, how difficult is it to re-engineer for the US market?   I'm not an engineer, am I not understanding some basics?
                    http://www.sma.de/en/products/backup-systems/sunny-backup-set-s.html
                    http://www.solarshop-europe.net/product_info.php?products_id=1526

                    Thank you, Kathy

                  • Andrew McCalla
                    Greg, Great site, thanks for sharing. Andrew From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Greg Tinkler Sent: Friday, August 24, 2012
                    Message 9 of 9 , Aug 27 7:17 AM
                    • 0 Attachment

                      Greg,

                       

                      Great site, thanks for sharing.

                       

                      Andrew

                       

                       

                       

                      From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Greg Tinkler
                      Sent: Friday, August 24, 2012 1:53 PM
                      To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: RE: [hreg] Solar Backup System

                       

                       

                      http://www.brightleafpower.com/

                       

                      From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris and Kathy Denison
                      Sent: Friday, August 24, 2012 1:46 PM
                      To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [hreg] Solar Backup System

                       

                       

                      Hello,
                      would appreciate some input on this.  We have a grid tied, 5k solar array and are waiting a year to get an idea how much electricity we'll use per annum. Our 1250sq home is all electric with geothermal cooling/heating (we're in south Texas).  We plan to add more panels next year to come close to our annual usage, perhaps another 3-4k (we had the larger SMA inverter installed to accommodate additional panels).

                      So if the grid goes down, the panels automatically shut off for safety. Meanwhile we have no power despite the panels sat up top so would need a generator for the basics (fridge, freezer, PC, lights, etc).  Seems a little crazy to have panels up there we can't utilize during the day. Ideally would like to use something like the SMA Sunny Backup (SB) which has a small battery array just to keep basics going thru the night. In daylight, the panels are back to operating and powering the house and recharging the batteries.  Basically we're looking for a hybrid system so are covered for all eventualities (the house has been pre wired to accommodate this possibility).

                      Some of you have suggested the Sunny Island but understand this is designed primarily for off grid and is considerably more expensive than the Sunny Backup, plus needs a different, more expensive inverter.  Also that the panels to first recharge the large battery array before powering the house, then any surplus leccies go to the grid. The SB costs about $2800 in Europe.

                      Innovative electricity insurance for private homes: as an add-on to the PV plant, the Sunny Backup set S switches automatically to off-grid mode within 50 milliseconds in the event of grid failure. Whether in summer or winter, if the power goes out, owners of small to medium-sized PV plants and inverters from SMA can supply their most important consumer loads themselves. Our affordable complete solution is suitable for both new PV plants as well as existing PV plants, which can be easily retrofitted with our certified Sunny Backup set S.

                      SMA in the USA told me the SB is not UL listed and 50hz so can't be used here.  But surely there's a market in the US for this?  The technology is there, how difficult is it to re-engineer for the US market?   I'm not an engineer, am I not understanding some basics?
                      http://www.sma.de/en/products/backup-systems/sunny-backup-set-s.html
                      http://www.solarshop-europe.net/product_info.php?products_id=1526

                      Thank you, Kathy



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