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RE: [hreg] Trade War with China Could Cripple US Solar Industry

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  • Philip Timmons
    Learned something from you, today.   Pick your brain with some market survey questions?    1. Do you think there would be much interest in a combined
    Message 1 of 20 , Jan 16, 2012
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      Learned something from you, today.
       
      Pick your brain with some market survey questions? 
       
      1. Do you think there would be much interest in a combined electric power and hot water solar system?
      2. How about if space heat / cooling (A/C) were part of it?
       
      Thanks.
       

      --- On Mon, 1/16/12, kevin conlin <kevin@...> wrote:

      From: kevin conlin <kevin@...>
      Subject: RE: [hreg] Trade War with China Could Cripple US Solar Industry
      To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Monday, January 16, 2012, 5:27 PM

       

      Solar thermal water heating is cost effective in Houston when replacing an electric water heater, but it’s a hard sell

       

      The problem is nobody in Houston gets excited about putting a water heater on their roof

       

      Energy wise, China produces more solar water heaters than PV panels

       

      Kevin Conlin

      Heliosolar Design Inc

      PO Box 1938

      Alief, TX 77411

      281-202-9629

      kevin@...

       

       

       

       

      From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Andrea Wisner
      Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 3:53 PM
      To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [hreg] Trade War with China Could Cripple US Solar Industry

       

      I'm still wondering is there's a resource out there as to in which markets solar in cost-effective and which it's not. There was another email suggesting it's more cost-effective in Central America. What is the balance for Houston?

       

      Andrea

       

      From: ralph parrott <ralph.parrott@...>
      To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 2:24 PM
      Subject: [hreg] Trade War with China Could Cripple US Solar Industry

       

       

      Friday, January 13, 2012


      Miami Herald
      by Jigar Shah

      Six decades ago, Gen. Omar Bradley warned that expanding the Korean War into China would be "the wrong war, at the wrong place, at the wrong time, with the wrong enemy." Now the same could be said about the trade war that is brewing with China in the solar energy industry.

      Cutting off China and threatening U.S. solar jobs started in October when a German company with a manufacturing facility in Oregon filed a trade complaint with the U.S. International Trade Commission and the Department of Commerce demanding that punitive tariffs be imposed on solar panels and cells imported from China. Just before New Year's Day, several U.S. manufacturers filed a similar petition against China and Vietnam seeking special surcharges on wind towers imported from these countries.

      Now that the first shots have been fired, there's a growing danger that China will retaliate. Already, China is considering asking the World Trade Organization to investigate alleged unfair practices in U.S. clean energy policies, including programs in Washington, California, New Jersey, Ohio and Massachusetts.

      If these frictions ignite a full-scale trade war, our country's casualties could include eliminating many of 100,000-plus good-paying jobs (which have been expected to grow to almost 124,000 at the end of 2012), delaying dozens of solar energy projects, raising prices for consumers, reducing our energy security, and reversing the progress of an industry that is running an all-too-rare trade surplus with the rest of the world, including China.

      For all the sound and fury, low prices for solar panels and cells aren't the problem, and protectionism isn't the solution. Several decades of private investment, public support and scientific progress are bearing fruit for a U.S. solar energy industry that now can generate electricity with costs, in some markets, that are competitive with power produced from fossil fuels.

      At a time when the growth rate in the entire economy is a sluggish 0.7 percent, the U.S. solar industry, now numbering almost 5,000 companies, is expanding at a rate of 6.8 percent a year. Since 2009, the sector has doubled its workforce, providing more than 100,000 high-skilled, high-wage jobs, including installers, technicians and professionals in scientific research, finance and allied services.

       

       

      Ralph Parrott

       

      President

       

      IMPORTANT NOTICE: This transmission (including all attached pages) is intended only for the use of the named address(es), and may contain information that is privileged or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not a named addressee, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distributing or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please destroy all copies and notify us immediately at this telephone number: (713) 595-6375. Thank you!

       

       

    • MIchele Arnold
      Dear Kevin, Where can I buy a solar water heater in Houston and who can install? Michele Arnold From: kevin conlin Organization:
      Message 2 of 20 , Jan 16, 2012
      • 0 Attachment
        Re: [hreg] Trade War with China Could Cripple US Solar Industry Dear Kevin,
        Where can I buy a solar water heater in Houston and who can install?
        Michele Arnold



        From: kevin conlin <kevin@...>
        Organization: Heliosolardesign LLC
        Reply-To: <hreg@yahoogroups.com>
        Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2012 17:27:48 -0600
        To: <hreg@yahoogroups.com>
        Subject: RE: [hreg] Trade War with China Could Cripple US Solar Industry

         
         
         
           

        Solar thermal water heating is cost effective in Houston when replacing an electric water heater, but it’s a hard sell
         
        The problem is nobody in Houston gets excited about putting a water heater on their roof
         
        Energy wise, China produces more solar water heaters than PV panels
         

        Kevin Conlin
        Heliosolar Design Inc
        PO Box 1938
        Alief, TX 77411
        281-202-9629
        kevin@...
         
         
         
         

        From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Andrea Wisner
        Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 3:53 PM
        To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [hreg] Trade War with China Could Cripple US Solar Industry


        I'm still wondering is there's a resource out there as to in which markets solar in cost-effective and which it's not. There was another email suggesting it's more cost-effective in Central America. What is the balance for Houston?

         

        Andrea

         

        From: ralph parrott <ralph.parrott@...>
        To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 2:24 PM
        Subject: [hreg] Trade War with China Could Cripple US Solar Industry


          

        Friday, January 13, 2012

        Miami Herald
        by Jigar Shah

        Six decades ago, Gen. Omar Bradley warned that expanding the Korean War into China would be "the wrong war, at the wrong place, at the wrong time, with the wrong enemy." Now the same could be said about the trade war that is brewing with China in the solar energy industry.

        Cutting off China and threatening U.S. solar jobs started in October when a German company with a manufacturing facility in Oregon filed a trade complaint with the U.S. International Trade Commission and the Department of Commerce demanding that punitive tariffs be imposed on solar panels and cells imported from China. Just before New Year's Day, several U.S. manufacturers filed a similar petition against China and Vietnam seeking special surcharges on wind towers imported from these countries.

        Now that the first shots have been fired, there's a growing danger that China will retaliate. Already, China is considering asking the World Trade Organization to investigate alleged unfair practices in U.S. clean energy policies, including programs in Washington, California, New Jersey, Ohio and Massachusetts.

        If these frictions ignite a full-scale trade war, our country's casualties could include eliminating many of 100,000-plus good-paying jobs (which have been expected to grow to almost 124,000 at the end of 2012), delaying dozens of solar energy projects, raising prices for consumers, reducing our energy security, and reversing the progress of an industry that is running an all-too-rare trade surplus with the rest of the world, including China.

        For all the sound and fury, low prices for solar panels and cells aren't the problem, and protectionism isn't the solution. Several decades of private investment, public support and scientific progress are bearing fruit for a U.S. solar energy industry that now can generate electricity with costs, in some markets, that are competitive with power produced from fossil fuels.

        At a time when the growth rate in the entire economy is a sluggish 0.7 percent, the U.S. solar industry, now numbering almost 5,000 companies, is expanding at a rate of 6.8 percent a year. Since 2009, the sector has doubled its workforce, providing more than 100,000 high-skilled, high-wage jobs, including installers, technicians and professionals in scientific research, finance and allied services.





        Ralph Parrott



        President



        http://www.txses.org/hreg



        IMPORTANT NOTICE: This transmission (including all attached pages) is intended only for the use of the named address(es), and may contain information that is privileged or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not a named addressee, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distributing or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please destroy all copies and notify us immediately at this telephone number: (713) 595-6375. Thank you!



         
           


      • kevin conlin
        Philip, Please see my comments below…. Best Regards, Kevin Kevin Conlin Heliosolar Design Inc PO Box 1938 Alief, TX 77411 281-202-9629
        Message 3 of 20 , Jan 16, 2012
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          Philip,

           

          Please see my comments below….

           

          Best Regards,

           

          Kevin

           

          Kevin Conlin

          Heliosolar Design Inc

          PO Box 1938

          Alief, TX 77411

          281-202-9629

          kevin@...

           

           

           

           

          From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Philip Timmons
          Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 5:33 PM
          To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: [hreg] Trade War with China Could Cripple US Solar Industry

           

          Learned something from you, today.

           

          Pick your brain with some market survey questions? 

           

          1.      Do you think there would be much interest in a combined electric power and hot water solar system?  Yes, it makes better economic sense, especially if the water heater backup element is turned off to avoid time of day pricing.  The solar water heater will probably outperform the PV system in terms of savings in an all electric home, but most of Houston has natural gas.

           

          2. How about if space heat / cooling (A/C) were part of it? Again, yes, especially if an integrated system offered enhanced savings.  Smart home technology may be the bridge linking all of the technologies together, but the key will be using the right hardware and offering financing so the savings exceed the payments.

           

          Thanks.

           


          --- On Mon, 1/16/12, kevin conlin <kevin@...> wrote:


          From: kevin conlin <kevin@...>
          Subject: RE: [hreg] Trade War with China Could Cripple US Solar Industry
          To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Monday, January 16, 2012, 5:27 PM

           

          Solar thermal water heating is cost effective in Houston when replacing an electric water heater, but it’s a hard sell

           

          The problem is nobody in Houston gets excited about putting a water heater on their roof

           

          Energy wise, China produces more solar water heaters than PV panels

           

          Kevin Conlin

          Heliosolar Design Inc

          PO Box 1938

          Alief, TX 77411

          281-202-9629

          kevin@...

           

           

           

           

          From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Andrea Wisner
          Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 3:53 PM
          To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [hreg] Trade War with China Could Cripple US Solar Industry

           

          I'm still wondering is there's a resource out there as to in which markets solar in cost-effective and which it's not. There was another email suggesting it's more cost-effective in Central America. What is the balance for Houston?

           

          Andrea

           

          From: ralph parrott <ralph.parrott@...>
          To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 2:24 PM
          Subject: [hreg] Trade War with China Could Cripple US Solar Industry

           

           

          Friday, January 13, 2012


          Miami Herald
          by Jigar Shah

          Six decades ago, Gen. Omar Bradley warned that expanding the Korean War into China would be "the wrong war, at the wrong place, at the wrong time, with the wrong enemy." Now the same could be said about the trade war that is brewing with China in the solar energy industry.

          Cutting off China and threatening U.S. solar jobs started in October when a German company with a manufacturing facility in Oregon filed a trade complaint with the U.S. International Trade Commission and the Department of Commerce demanding that punitive tariffs be imposed on solar panels and cells imported from China. Just before New Year's Day, several U.S. manufacturers filed a similar petition against China and Vietnam seeking special surcharges on wind towers imported from these countries.

          Now that the first shots have been fired, there's a growing danger that China will retaliate. Already, China is considering asking the World Trade Organization to investigate alleged unfair practices in U.S. clean energy policies, including programs in Washington, California, New Jersey, Ohio and Massachusetts.

          If these frictions ignite a full-scale trade war, our country's casualties could include eliminating many of 100,000-plus good-paying jobs (which have been expected to grow to almost 124,000 at the end of 2012), delaying dozens of solar energy projects, raising prices for consumers, reducing our energy security, and reversing the progress of an industry that is running an all-too-rare trade surplus with the rest of the world, including China.

          For all the sound and fury, low prices for solar panels and cells aren't the problem, and protectionism isn't the solution. Several decades of private investment, public support and scientific progress are bearing fruit for a U.S. solar energy industry that now can generate electricity with costs, in some markets, that are competitive with power produced from fossil fuels.

          At a time when the growth rate in the entire economy is a sluggish 0.7 percent, the U.S. solar industry, now numbering almost 5,000 companies, is expanding at a rate of 6.8 percent a year. Since 2009, the sector has doubled its workforce, providing more than 100,000 high-skilled, high-wage jobs, including installers, technicians and professionals in scientific research, finance and allied services.

           

           

          Ralph Parrott

           

          President

           

          IMPORTANT NOTICE: This transmission (including all attached pages) is intended only for the use of the named address(es), and may contain information that is privileged or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not a named addressee, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distributing or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please destroy all copies and notify us immediately at this telephone number: (713) 595-6375. Thank you!

           

           

           

        • kevin conlin
          Not sure, Michele, I ll have to defer to the other energy experts on this list.. Because of potential freezing in winter, and overheating in summer, Houston
          Message 4 of 20 , Jan 16, 2012
          • 0 Attachment

            Not sure, Michele, I’ll have to defer to the other energy experts on this list……

             

            Because of potential freezing in winter, and overheating in summer, Houston does offer some unique challenges

             

            In the mid 80’s approx. $50,000,000 in solar water heaters were sold in Harris County, the vast majority were installed poorly and failed quickly, BUT

             

            a properly designed and installed solar water heater should last as long as a PV system, the trick is selecting a high quality tank and replacing the anode periodically

             

            (Some of the better tanks come with two anodes)

             

            Do you have an electric or gas water heater?

             

            Best Regards,

             

            Kevin

             

            Kevin Conlin

            Heliosolar Design Inc

            PO Box 1938

            Alief, TX 77411

            281-202-9629

            kevin@...

             

             

             

             

            From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of MIchele Arnold
            Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 5:40 PM
            To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [hreg] Trade War with China Could Cripple US Solar Industry

             

             

            Dear Kevin,
            Where can I buy a solar water heater in Houston and who can install?
            Michele Arnold


            From: kevin conlin <kevin@...>
            Organization: Heliosolardesign LLC
            Reply-To: <hreg@yahoogroups.com>
            Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2012 17:27:48 -0600
            To: <hreg@yahoogroups.com>
            Subject: RE: [hreg] Trade War with China Could Cripple US Solar Industry

             
             
             
               

            Solar thermal water heating is cost effective in Houston when replacing an electric water heater, but it’s a hard sell
             
            The problem is nobody in Houston gets excited about putting a water heater on their roof
             
            Energy wise, China produces more solar water heaters than PV panels
             

            Kevin Conlin
            Heliosolar Design Inc
            PO Box 1938
            Alief, TX 77411
            281-202-9629
            kevin@...
             
             
             
             

            From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Andrea Wisner
            Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 3:53 PM
            To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [hreg] Trade War with China Could Cripple US Solar Industry


            I'm still wondering is there's a resource out there as to in which markets solar in cost-effective and which it's not. There was another email suggesting it's more cost-effective in Central America. What is the balance for Houston?

             

            Andrea

             

            From: ralph parrott <ralph.parrott@...>
            To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 2:24 PM
            Subject: [hreg] Trade War with China Could Cripple US Solar Industry


              

            Friday, January 13, 2012

            Miami Herald
            by Jigar Shah

            Six decades ago, Gen. Omar Bradley warned that expanding the Korean War into China would be "the wrong war, at the wrong place, at the wrong time, with the wrong enemy." Now the same could be said about the trade war that is brewing with China in the solar energy industry.

            Cutting off China and threatening U.S. solar jobs started in October when a German company with a manufacturing facility in Oregon filed a trade complaint with the U.S. International Trade Commission and the Department of Commerce demanding that punitive tariffs be imposed on solar panels and cells imported from China. Just before New Year's Day, several U.S. manufacturers filed a similar petition against China and Vietnam seeking special surcharges on wind towers imported from these countries.

            Now that the first shots have been fired, there's a growing danger that China will retaliate. Already, China is considering asking the World Trade Organization to investigate alleged unfair practices in U.S. clean energy policies, including programs in Washington, California, New Jersey, Ohio and Massachusetts.

            If these frictions ignite a full-scale trade war, our country's casualties could include eliminating many of 100,000-plus good-paying jobs (which have been expected to grow to almost 124,000 at the end of 2012), delaying dozens of solar energy projects, raising prices for consumers, reducing our energy security, and reversing the progress of an industry that is running an all-too-rare trade surplus with the rest of the world, including China.

            For all the sound and fury, low prices for solar panels and cells aren't the problem, and protectionism isn't the solution. Several decades of private investment, public support and scientific progress are bearing fruit for a U.S. solar energy industry that now can generate electricity with costs, in some markets, that are competitive with power produced from fossil fuels.

            At a time when the growth rate in the entire economy is a sluggish 0.7 percent, the U.S. solar industry, now numbering almost 5,000 companies, is expanding at a rate of 6.8 percent a year. Since 2009, the sector has doubled its workforce, providing more than 100,000 high-skilled, high-wage jobs, including installers, technicians and professionals in scientific research, finance and allied services.





            Ralph Parrott



            President



            http://www.txses.org/hreg



            IMPORTANT NOTICE: This transmission (including all attached pages) is intended only for the use of the named address(es), and may contain information that is privileged or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not a named addressee, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distributing or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please destroy all copies and notify us immediately at this telephone number: (713) 595-6375. Thank you!



             
               

          • Andrea Wisner
            Based on what I ve read in  Solar Water Heating--Revised & Expanded Edition: A Comprehensive Guide to Solar Water and Space Heating Systems (Mother Earth News
            Message 5 of 20 , Jan 16, 2012
            • 0 Attachment
              Based on what I've read in "Solar Water Heating--Revised & Expanded Edition: A Comprehensive Guide to Solar Water and Space Heating Systems (Mother Earth News Wiser Living Series)" by Bob Ramlow,  a person who installs a solar water heater does not need to be as specialized as with solar PV. Probably a plumber, or even a good handyman, could do it after reading the book. There are probably reviews online on the best systems. There is a lot of information in the book on selecting a system, also. Getting the right system for your needs and environment is very important.
               
              I'm sure someone on the list will respond and be able to help you though. Solar thermal does make a lot of sense, and I will install one as soon as I've found the home in which I want to settle down. None of this HOA nonsense.
               
              Regards,
              Andrea

              From: kevin conlin <kevin@...>
              To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 6:32 PM
              Subject: RE: [hreg] Trade War with China Could Cripple US Solar Industry - responding

               
              Not sure, Michele, I’ll have to defer to the other energy experts on this list……
               
              Because of potential freezing in winter, and overheating in summer, Houston does offer some unique challenges
               
              In the mid 80’s approx. $50,000,000 in solar water heaters were sold in Harris County, the vast majority were installed poorly and failed quickly, BUT
               
              a properly designed and installed solar water heater should last as long as a PV system, the trick is selecting a high quality tank and replacing the anode periodically
               
              (Some of the better tanks come with two anodes)
               
              Do you have an electric or gas water heater?
               
              Best Regards,
               
              Kevin
               
              Kevin Conlin
              Heliosolar Design Inc
              PO Box 1938
              Alief, TX 77411
              281-202-9629
              kevin@...
               
               
               
               
              From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of MIchele Arnold
              Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 5:40 PM
              To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [hreg] Trade War with China Could Cripple US Solar Industry
               
               
              Dear Kevin,
              Where can I buy a solar water heater in Houston and who can install?
              Michele Arnold

              From: kevin conlin <kevin@...>
              Organization: Heliosolardesign LLC
              Reply-To: <hreg@yahoogroups.com>
              Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2012 17:27:48 -0600
              To: <hreg@yahoogroups.com>
              Subject: RE: [hreg] Trade War with China Could Cripple US Solar Industry

               
               
               
                 

              Solar thermal water heating is cost effective in Houston when replacing an electric water heater, but it’s a hard sell
               
              The problem is nobody in Houston gets excited about putting a water heater on their roof
               
              Energy wise, China produces more solar water heaters than PV panels
               

              Kevin Conlin
              Heliosolar Design Inc
              PO Box 1938
              Alief, TX 77411
              281-202-9629
              kevin@...
               
               
               
               

              From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Andrea Wisner
              Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 3:53 PM
              To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [hreg] Trade War with China Could Cripple US Solar Industry


              I'm still wondering is there's a resource out there as to in which markets solar in cost-effective and which it's not. There was another email suggesting it's more cost-effective in Central America. What is the balance for Houston?

               

              Andrea

               

              From: ralph parrott <ralph.parrott@...>
              To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 2:24 PM
              Subject: [hreg] Trade War with China Could Cripple US Solar Industry


                

              Friday, January 13, 2012

              Miami Herald
              by Jigar Shah

              Six decades ago, Gen. Omar Bradley warned that expanding the Korean War into China would be "the wrong war, at the wrong place, at the wrong time, with the wrong enemy." Now the same could be said about the trade war that is brewing with China in the solar energy industry.

              Cutting off China and threatening U.S. solar jobs started in October when a German company with a manufacturing facility in Oregon filed a trade complaint with the U.S. International Trade Commission and the Department of Commerce demanding that punitive tariffs be imposed on solar panels and cells imported from China. Just before New Year's Day, several U.S. manufacturers filed a similar petition against China and Vietnam seeking special surcharges on wind towers imported from these countries.

              Now that the first shots have been fired, there's a growing danger that China will retaliate. Already, China is considering asking the World Trade Organization to investigate alleged unfair practices in U.S. clean energy policies, including programs in Washington, California, New Jersey, Ohio and Massachusetts.

              If these frictions ignite a full-scale trade war, our country's casualties could include eliminating many of 100,000-plus good-paying jobs (which have been expected to grow to almost 124,000 at the end of 2012), delaying dozens of solar energy projects, raising prices for consumers, reducing our energy security, and reversing the progress of an industry that is running an all-too-rare trade surplus with the rest of the world, including China.

              For all the sound and fury, low prices for solar panels and cells aren't the problem, and protectionism isn't the solution. Several decades of private investment, public support and scientific progress are bearing fruit for a U.S. solar energy industry that now can generate electricity with costs, in some markets, that are competitive with power produced from fossil fuels.

              At a time when the growth rate in the entire economy is a sluggish 0.7 percent, the U.S. solar industry, now numbering almost 5,000 companies, is expanding at a rate of 6.8 percent a year. Since 2009, the sector has doubled its workforce, providing more than 100,000 high-skilled, high-wage jobs, including installers, technicians and professionals in scientific research, finance and allied services.





              Ralph Parrott



              President



              http://www.txses.org/hreg



              IMPORTANT NOTICE: This transmission (including all attached pages) is intended only for the use of the named address(es), and may contain information that is privileged or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not a named addressee, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distributing or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please destroy all copies and notify us immediately at this telephone number: (713) 595-6375. Thank you!



               
                 



            • MIchele Arnold
              Dear Kevin and Andrea, First, thank you for being there and caring about solar as I do. I bought my 1949 Bellaire cottage in 1993 before any McBricks or ³mold
              Message 6 of 20 , Jan 16, 2012
              • 0 Attachment
                Re: [hreg] Trade War with China Could Cripple US Solar Industry - responding Dear Kevin and Andrea,

                First, thank you for being there and caring about solar as I do.
                I bought my 1949 Bellaire cottage in 1993 before any McBricks or “mold catchers” were built. The natural gas-powered water heater in my garage at that time (mounted on a wood platform) says Mor-Flo, Johnson City, TN 1988. It still provides me hot water quickly, even with the thermostat set low to save energy. It was only bled once, probably in the late 1990s. It can’t last forever, and I asked my plumber about solar-powered. Nope. He’ll sell and install the kind I have now or the tankless ones made in China. I told him I NEVER buy from China if I can help it. I care not about what a tank looks like on my roof and want to be prepared for the morning I go to shower and it’s all cold! I have not one jot or tiddle of talent in handyman things. Is there someone who can help me?
                Michele

                Based on what I've read in
                "Solar Water Heating--Revised & Expanded Edition: A Comprehensive Guide to Solar Water and Space Heating Systems (Mother Earth News Wiser Living Series)" by Bob Ramlow,  a person who installs a solar water heater does not need to be as specialized as with solar PV. Probably a plumber, or even a good handyman, could do it after reading the book. There are probably reviews online on the best systems. There is a lot of information in the book on selecting a system, also. Getting the right system for your needs and environment is very important.
                 
                I'm sure someone on the list will respond and be able to help you though. Solar thermal does make a lot of sense, and I will install one as soon as I've found the home in which I want to settle down. None of this HOA nonsense.
                 
                Regards,
                Andrea



                From: kevin conlin <kevin@...>
                Organization: Heliosolardesign LLC
                Reply-To: <hreg@yahoogroups.com>
                Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2012 18:32:35 -0600
                To: <hreg@yahoogroups.com>
                Subject: RE: [hreg] Trade War with China Could Cripple US Solar Industry - responding

                 
                 
                 
                   

                Not sure, Michele, I’ll have to defer to the other energy experts on this list……
                 
                Because of potential freezing in winter, and overheating in summer, Houston does offer some unique challenges
                 
                In the mid 80’s approx. $50,000,000 in solar water heaters were sold in Harris County, the vast majority were installed poorly and failed quickly, BUT

                a properly designed and installed solar water heater should last as long as a PV system, the trick is selecting a high quality tank and replacing the anode periodically
                 
                (Some of the better tanks come with two anodes)
                 
                Do you have an electric or gas water heater?
                 
                Best Regards,
                 
                Kevin


                Kevin Conlin
                Heliosolar Design Inc
                PO Box 1938
                Alief, TX 77411
                281-202-9629
                kevin@...
                 
                 
                 
                 

                From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of MIchele Arnold
                Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 5:40 PM
                To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [hreg] Trade War with China Could Cripple US Solar Industry

                  

                Dear Kevin,
                Where can I buy a solar water heater in Houston and who can install?
                Michele Arnold


                From: kevin conlin <! ;kevin@...>
                Organization: Heliosolardesign LLC
                Reply-To: <hreg@yahoogroups.com>
                Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2012 17:27:48 -0600
                To: <hreg@yahoogroups.com>
                Subject: RE: [hreg] Trade War with China Could Cripple US Solar Industry

                 
                 
                 
                   

                Solar thermal water heating is cost effective in Houston when replacing an electric water heater, but it’s a hard sell
                 
                The problem is nobody in Houston gets excited about putting a water heater on their roof
                 
                Energy wise, China produces more solar water heaters than PV panels
                 

                Kevin Conlin
                Heliosolar Design Inc
                PO Box 1938
                Alief, TX 77411
                281-202-9629
                kevin@...
                 
                 
                 
                 

                From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Andrea Wisner
                Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 3:53 PM
                To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [hreg] Trade War with China Could Cripple US Solar Industry


                I'm still wondering is there's a resource out there as to in which markets solar in cost-effective and which it's not. There was another email suggesting it's more cost-effective in Central America. What is the balance for Houston?

                 

                Andrea

                 

                From: ralph parrott <ralph.parrott@...>
                To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 2:24 PM
                Subject: [hreg] Trade War with China Could Cripple US Solar Industry


                  

                Friday, January 13, 2012

                Miami Herald
                by Jigar Shah

                Six decades ago, Gen. Omar Bradley warned that expanding the Korean War into China would be "the wrong war, at the wrong place, at the wrong time, with the wrong enemy." Now the same could be said about the trade war that is brewing with China in the solar energy industry.

                Cutting off China and threatening U.S. solar jobs started in October when a German company with a manufacturing facility in Oregon filed a trade complaint with the U.S. International Trade Commission and the Department of Commerce demanding that punitive tariffs be imposed on solar panels and cells imported from China. Just before New Year's Day, several U.S. manufacturers filed a similar petition against China and Vietnam seeking special surcharges on wind towers imported from these countries.

                Now that the first shots have been fired, there's a growing danger that China will retaliate. Already, China is considering asking the World Trade Organization to investigate alleged unfair practices in U.S. clean energy policies, including programs in Washington, California, New Jersey, Ohio and Massachusetts.

                If these frictions ignite a full-scale trade war, our country's casualties could include eliminating many of 100,000-plus good-paying jobs (which have been expected to grow to almost 124,000 at the end of 2012), delaying dozens of solar energy projects, raising prices for consumers, reducing our energy security, and reversi! ng the progress of an industry that is running an all-too-rare trade surplus with the rest of the world, including China.

                For all the sound and fury, low prices for solar panels and cells aren't the problem, and protectionism isn't the solution. Several decades of private investment, public support and scientific progress are bearing fruit for a U.S. solar energy industry that now can generate electricity with costs, in some markets, that are competitive with power produced from fossil fuels.

                At a time when the growth rate in the entire economy is a sluggish 0.7 percent, the U.S. solar industry, now numbering almost 5,000 companies, is expanding at a rate of 6.8 percent a year. Since 2009, the sector has doubled its workforce, providing more than 100,000 high-skilled, high-wage jobs, including installers, technicians and professionals in scientific research, finance and allied services.





                Ralph Parrott



                President



                http://www.txses.org/hreg



                IMPORTANT NOTICE: This transmission (including all attached pages) is intended only for the use of the named address(es), and may contain informati! on that is privileged or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not a named addressee, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distributing or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please destroy all copies and notify us immediately at this telephone number: (713) 595-6375. Thank you!



                 
                   


                   


              • kevin conlin
                Michele, I have a few questions, if you ll contact me off line I ll try to help Best Regards, Kevin Kevin Conlin Heliosolar Design Inc PO Box 1938 Alief, TX
                Message 7 of 20 , Jan 16, 2012
                • 0 Attachment

                  Michele,

                   

                  I have a few questions, if you’ll contact me off line I’ll try to help

                   

                  Best Regards,

                   

                  Kevin

                   

                  Kevin Conlin

                  Heliosolar Design Inc

                  PO Box 1938

                  Alief, TX 77411

                  281-202-9629

                  kevin@...

                   

                   

                   

                   

                  From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of MIchele Arnold
                  Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 7:17 PM
                  To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [hreg] Trade War with China Could Cripple US Solar Industry - responding

                   

                   

                  Dear Kevin and Andrea,

                  First, thank you for being there and caring about solar as I do.
                  I bought my 1949 Bellaire cottage in 1993 before any McBricks or “mold catchers” were built. The natural gas-powered water heater in my garage at that time (mounted on a wood platform) says Mor-Flo, Johnson City, TN 1988. It still provides me hot water quickly, even with the thermostat set low to save energy. It was only bled once, probably in the late 1990s. It can’t last forever, and I asked my plumber about solar-powered. Nope. He’ll sell and install the kind I have now or the tankless ones made in China. I told him I NEVER buy from China if I can help it. I care not about what a tank looks like on my roof and want to be prepared for the morning I go to shower and it’s all cold! I have not one jot or tiddle of talent in handyman things. Is there someone who can help me?
                  Michele

                  Based on what I've read in
                  "Solar Water Heating--Revised & Expanded Edition: A Comprehensive Guide to Solar Water and Space Heating Systems (Mother Earth News Wiser Living Series)" by Bob Ramlow,  a person who installs a solar water heater does not need to be as specialized as with solar PV. Probably a plumber, or even a good handyman, could do it after reading the book. There are probably reviews online on the best systems. There is a lot of information in the book on selecting a system, also. Getting the right system for your needs and environment is very important.
                   
                  I'm sure someone on the list will respond and be able to help you though. Solar thermal does make a lot of sense, and I will install one as soon as I've found the home in which I want to settle down. None of this HOA nonsense.
                   
                  Regards,
                  Andrea


                  From: kevin conlin <kevin@...>
                  Organization: Heliosolardesign LLC
                  Reply-To: <hreg@yahoogroups.com>
                  Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2012 18:32:35 -0600
                  To: <hreg@yahoogroups.com>
                  Subject: RE: [hreg] Trade War with China Could Cripple US Solar Industry - responding

                   
                   
                   
                     

                  Not sure, Michele, I’ll have to defer to the other energy experts on this list……
                   
                  Because of potential freezing in winter, and overheating in summer, Houston does offer some unique challenges
                   
                  In the mid 80’s approx. $50,000,000 in solar water heaters were sold in Harris County, the vast majority were installed poorly and failed quickly, BUT

                  a properly designed and installed solar water heater should last as long as a PV system, the trick is selecting a high quality tank and replacing the anode periodically
                   
                  (Some of the better tanks come with two anodes)
                   
                  Do you have an electric or gas water heater?
                   
                  Best Regards,
                   
                  Kevin


                  Kevin Conlin
                  Heliosolar Design Inc
                  PO Box 1938
                  Alief, TX 77411
                  281-202-9629
                  kevin@...
                   
                   
                   
                   

                  From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of MIchele Arnold
                  Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 5:40 PM
                  To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [hreg] Trade War with China Could Cripple US Solar Industry

                    

                  Dear Kevin,
                  Where can I buy a solar water heater in Houston and who can install?
                  Michele Arnold


                  From: kevin conlin <! ;kevin@...>
                  Organization: Heliosolardesign LLC
                  Reply-To: <hreg@yahoogroups.com>
                  Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2012 17:27:48 -0600
                  To: <hreg@yahoogroups.com>
                  Subject: RE: [hreg] Trade War with China Could Cripple US Solar Industry

                   
                   
                   
                     

                  Solar thermal water heating is cost effective in Houston when replacing an electric water heater, but it’s a hard sell
                   
                  The problem is nobody in Houston gets excited about putting a water heater on their roof
                   
                  Energy wise, China produces more solar water heaters than PV panels
                   

                  Kevin Conlin
                  Heliosolar Design Inc
                  PO Box 1938
                  Alief, TX 77411
                  281-202-9629
                  kevin@...
                   
                   
                   
                   

                  From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Andrea Wisner
                  Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 3:53 PM
                  To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [hreg] Trade War with China Could Cripple US Solar Industry


                  I'm still wondering is there's a resource out there as to in which markets solar in cost-effective and which it's not. There was another email suggesting it's more cost-effective in Central America. What is the balance for Houston?

                   

                  Andrea

                   

                  From: ralph parrott <ralph.parrott@...>
                  To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 2:24 PM
                  Subject: [hreg] Trade War with China Could Cripple US Solar Industry


                    

                  Friday, January 13, 2012

                  Miami Herald
                  by Jigar Shah

                  Six decades ago, Gen. Omar Bradley warned that expanding the Korean War into China would be "the wrong war, at the wrong place, at the wrong time, with the wrong enemy." Now the same could be said about the trade war that is brewing with China in the solar energy industry.

                  Cutting off China and threatening U.S. solar jobs started in October when a German company with a manufacturing facility in Oregon filed a trade complaint with the U.S. International Trade Commission and the Department of Commerce demanding that punitive tariffs be imposed on solar panels and cells imported from China. Just before New Year's Day, several U.S. manufacturers filed a similar petition against China and Vietnam seeking special surcharges on wind towers imported from these countries.

                  Now that the first shots have been fired, there's a growing danger that China will retaliate. Already, China is considering asking the World Trade Organization to investigate alleged unfair practices in U.S. clean energy policies, including programs in Washington, California, New Jersey, Ohio and Massachusetts.

                  If these frictions ignite a full-scale trade war, our country's casualties could include eliminating many of 100,000-plus good-paying jobs (which have been expected to grow to almost 124,000 at the end of 2012), delaying dozens of solar energy projects, raising prices for consumers, reducing our energy security, and reversi! ng the progress of an industry that is running an all-too-rare trade surplus with the rest of the world, including China.

                  For all the sound and fury, low prices for solar panels and cells aren't the problem, and protectionism isn't the solution. Several decades of private investment, public support and scientific progress are bearing fruit for a U.S. solar energy industry that now can generate electricity with costs, in some markets, that are competitive with power produced from fossil fuels.

                  At a time when the growth rate in the entire economy is a sluggish 0.7 percent, the U.S. solar industry, now numbering almost 5,000 companies, is expanding at a rate of 6.8 percent a year. Since 2009, the sector has doubled its workforce, providing more than 100,000 high-skilled, high-wage jobs, including installers, technicians and professionals in scientific research, finance and allied services.





                  Ralph Parrott



                  President



                  http://www.txses.org/hreg



                  IMPORTANT NOTICE: This transmission (including all attached pages) is intended only for the use of the named address(es), and may contain informati! on that is privileged or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not a named addressee, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distributing or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please destroy all copies and notify us immediately at this telephone number: (713) 595-6375. Thank you!



                   
                     


                     

                • mkewert@comcast.net
                  Michele, APS is the only company in town that I know still does solar hot water. http://www.apowersolutions.com/residential-solar-water-heating.aspx If there
                  Message 8 of 20 , Jan 16, 2012
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Michele,
                    APS is the only company in town that I know still does solar hot water.
                    http://www.apowersolutions.com/residential-solar-water-heating.aspx
                    If there are others, please speak up.  I'm curious too.
                    Mike


                    From: "MIchele Arnold" <mawriter666@...>
                    To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 5:39:32 PM
                    Subject: Re: [hreg] Trade War with China Could Cripple US Solar Industry

                     

                    Dear Kevin,
                    Where can I buy a solar water heater in Houston and who can install?
                    Michele Arnold



                    From: kevin conlin <kevin@...>
                    Organization: Heliosolardesign LLC
                    Reply-To: <hreg@yahoogroups.com>
                    Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2012 17:27:48 -0600
                    To: <hreg@yahoogroups.com>
                    Subject: RE: [hreg] Trade War with China Could Cripple US Solar Industry

                     
                     
                     
                       

                    Solar thermal water heating is cost effective in Houston when replacing an electric water heater, but it’s a hard sell
                     
                    The problem is nobody in Houston gets excited about putting a water heater on their roof
                     
                    Energy wise, China produces more solar water heaters than PV panels
                     

                    Kevin Conlin
                    Heliosolar Design Inc
                    PO Box 1938
                    Alief, TX 77411
                    281-202-9629
                    kevin@...
                     
                     
                     
                     

                    From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Andrea Wisner
                    Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 3:53 PM
                    To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [hreg] Trade War with China Could Cripple US Solar Industry


                    I'm still wondering is there's a resource out there as to in which markets solar in cost-effective and which it's not. There was another email suggesting it's more cost-effective in Central America. What is the balance for Houston?

                     

                    Andrea

                     

                    From: ralph parrott <ralph.parrott@...>
                    To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 2:24 PM
                    Subject: [hreg] Trade War with China Could Cripple US Solar Industry


                      

                    Friday, January 13, 2012

                    Miami Herald
                    by Jigar Shah

                    Six decades ago, Gen. Omar Bradley warned that expanding the Korean War into China would be "the wrong war, at the wrong place, at the wrong time, with the wrong enemy." Now the same could be said about the trade war that is brewing with China in the solar energy industry.

                    Cutting off China and threatening U.S. solar jobs started in October when a German company with a manufacturing facility in Oregon filed a trade complaint with the U.S. International Trade Commission and the Department of Commerce demanding that punitive tariffs be imposed on solar panels and cells imported from China. Just before New Year's Day, several U.S. manufacturers filed a similar petition against China and Vietnam seeking special surcharges on wind towers imported from these countries.

                    Now that the first shots have been fired, there's a growing danger that China will retaliate. Already, China is considering asking the World Trade Organization to investigate alleged unfair practices in U.S. clean energy policies, including programs in Washington, California, New Jersey, Ohio and Massachusetts.

                    If these frictions ignite a full-scale trade war, our country's casualties could include eliminating many of 100,000-plus good-paying jobs (which have been expected to grow to almost 124,000 at the end of 2012), delaying dozens of solar energy projects, raising prices for consumers, reducing our energy security, and reversing the progress of an industry that is running an all-too-rare trade surplus with the rest of the world, including China.

                    For all the sound and fury, low prices for solar panels and cells aren't the problem, and protectionism isn't the solution. Several decades of private investment, public support and scientific progress are bearing fruit for a U.S. solar energy industry that now can generate electricity with costs, in some markets, that are competitive with power produced from fossil fuels.

                    At a time when the growth rate in the entire economy is a sluggish 0.7 percent, the U.S. solar industry, now numbering almost 5,000 companies, is expanding at a rate of 6.8 percent a year. Since 2009, the sector has doubled its workforce, providing more than 100,000 high-skilled, high-wage jobs, including installers, technicians and professionals in scientific research, finance and allied services.





                    Ralph Parrott



                    President



                    http://www.txses.org/hreg



                    IMPORTANT NOTICE: This transmission (including all attached pages) is intended only for the use of the named address(es), and may contain information that is privileged or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not a named addressee, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distributing or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please destroy all copies and notify us immediately at this telephone number: (713) 595-6375. Thank you!



                     
                       


                  • Jimmy Garrett
                    We still do solar thermal in the Houston area and I do believe we re te only ones, but I could be wrong. As you mentioned earlier, solar thermal can stack up
                    Message 9 of 20 , Jan 16, 2012
                    • 0 Attachment
                      We still do solar thermal in the Houston area and I do believe we're te only ones, but I could be wrong. As you mentioned earlier, solar thermal can stack up fairly well vs. an electric tank, but with the price of gas as it stands now, the ROI vs. a gas system is pretty long. Feel free to give me a call and I can explain te details of the systems we install at APS.

                      Regards,

                      Jimmy Garrett 
                      Alternative Power Solutions
                      Cell:     (713) 494-6795
                      Office:  (713) 595-6375
                      Fax:     (713) 595-6382

                      Sent from my iPhone

                      On Jan 16, 2012, at 10:14 PM, mkewert@... wrote:

                      Michele,
                      APS is the only company in town that I know still does solar hot water.
                      http://www.apowersolutions.com/residential-solar-water-heating.aspx
                      If there are others, please speak up.  I'm curious too.
                      Mike


                      From: "MIchele Arnold" <mawriter666@...>
                      To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 5:39:32 PM
                      Subject: Re: [hreg] Trade War with China Could Cripple US Solar Industry

                       

                      Dear Kevin,
                      Where can I buy a solar water heater in Houston and who can install?
                      Michele Arnold



                      From: kevin conlin <kevin@...>
                      Organization: Heliosolardesign LLC
                      Reply-To: <hreg@yahoogroups.com>
                      Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2012 17:27:48 -0600
                      To: <hreg@yahoogroups.com>
                      Subject: RE: [hreg] Trade War with China Could Cripple US Solar Industry

                       
                       
                       
                         

                      Solar thermal water heating is cost effective in Houston when replacing an electric water heater, but it’s a hard sell
                       
                      The problem is nobody in Houston gets excited about putting a water heater on their roof
                       
                      Energy wise, China produces more solar water heaters than PV panels
                       

                      Kevin Conlin
                      Heliosolar Design Inc
                      PO Box 1938
                      Alief, TX 77411
                      281-202-9629
                      kevin@...
                       
                       
                       
                       

                      From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Andrea Wisner
                      Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 3:53 PM
                      To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [hreg] Trade War with China Could Cripple US Solar Industry


                      I'm still wondering is there's a resource out there as to in which markets solar in cost-effective and which it's not. There was another email suggesting it's more cost-effective in Central America. What is the balance for Houston?

                       

                      Andrea

                       

                      From: ralph parrott <ralph.parrott@...>
                      To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 2:24 PM
                      Subject: [hreg] Trade War with China Could Cripple US Solar Industry


                        

                      Friday, January 13, 2012

                      Miami Herald
                      by Jigar Shah

                      Six decades ago, Gen. Omar Bradley warned that expanding the Korean War into China would be "the wrong war, at the wrong place, at the wrong time, with the wrong enemy." Now the same could be said about the trade war that is brewing with China in the solar energy industry.

                      Cutting off China and threatening U.S. solar jobs started in October when a German company with a manufacturing facility in Oregon filed a trade complaint with the U.S. International Trade Commission and the Department of Commerce demanding that punitive tariffs be imposed on solar panels and cells imported from China. Just before New Year's Day, several U.S. manufacturers filed a similar petition against China and Vietnam seeking special surcharges on wind towers imported from these countries.

                      Now that the first shots have been fired, there's a growing danger that China will retaliate. Already, China is considering asking the World Trade Organization to investigate alleged unfair practices in U.S. clean energy policies, including programs in Washington, California, New Jersey, Ohio and Massachusetts.

                      If these frictions ignite a full-scale trade war, our country's casualties could include eliminating many of 100,000-plus good-paying jobs (which have been expected to grow to almost 124,000 at the end of 2012), delaying dozens of solar energy projects, raising prices for consumers, reducing our energy security, and reversing the progress of an industry that is running an all-too-rare trade surplus with the rest of the world, including China.

                      For all the sound and fury, low prices for solar panels and cells aren't the problem, and protectionism isn't the solution. Several decades of private investment, public support and scientific progress are bearing fruit for a U.S. solar energy industry that now can generate electricity with costs, in some markets, that are competitive with power produced from fossil fuels.

                      At a time when the growth rate in the entire economy is a sluggish 0.7 percent, the U.S. solar industry, now numbering almost 5,000 companies, is expanding at a rate of 6.8 percent a year. Since 2009, the sector has doubled its workforce, providing more than 100,000 high-skilled, high-wage jobs, including installers, technicians and professionals in scientific research, finance and allied services.





                      Ralph Parrott



                      President

                      <image.jpg>

                      http://www.txses.org/hreg



                      IMPORTANT NOTICE: This transmission (including all attached pages) is intended only for the use of the named address(es), and may contain information that is privileged or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not a named addressee, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distributing or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please destroy all copies and notify us immediately at this telephone number: (713) 595-6375. Thank you!



                       
                         


                    • Philip Timmons
                      Thanks so much, Kevin.   From #1, I think I follow that you were thinking along the line of using PV to make electricity, which would then heat the water. 
                      Message 10 of 20 , Jan 17, 2012
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Thanks so much, Kevin.
                         
                        From #1, I think I follow that you were thinking along the line of using PV to make electricity, which would then heat the water.  You are correct, in some of the TOU plans, while that is extreme, it does actually make sense. 
                         
                        What I was trying to discuss is using Solar Thermal (only, No PV) for generation of both the Hot Water and Electricity.  So thanks for showing me that I need to be very clear on that.
                         
                        On #2, Money makes the difference.  Agreed.
                         
                        Anyone have interest in running some test equipment / sites?
                         
                         


                        --- On Mon, 1/16/12, kevin conlin <kevin@...> wrote:

                        From: kevin conlin <kevin@...>
                        Subject: RE: [hreg] Trade War with China Could Cripple US Solar Industry - responding
                        To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                        Date: Monday, January 16, 2012, 6:18 PM

                         

                        Philip,

                         

                        Please see my comments below….

                         

                        Best Regards,

                         

                        Kevin

                         

                        Kevin Conlin

                        Heliosolar Design Inc

                        PO Box 1938

                        Alief, TX 77411

                        281-202-9629

                        kevin@...

                         

                         

                         

                         

                        From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Philip Timmons
                        Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 5:33 PM
                        To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: RE: [hreg] Trade War with China Could Cripple US Solar Industry

                         

                        Learned something from you, today.

                         

                        Pick your brain with some market survey questions? 

                         

                        1.      Do you think there would be much interest in a combined electric power and hot water solar system?  Yes, it makes better economic sense, especially if the water heater backup element is turned off to avoid time of day pricing.  The solar water heater will probably outperform the PV system in terms of savings in an all electric home, but most of Houston has natural gas.

                         

                        2. How about if space heat / cooling (A/C) were part of it? Again, yes, especially if an integrated system offered enhanced savings.  Smart home technology may be the bridge linking all of the technologies together, but the key will be using the right hardware and offering financing so the savings exceed the payments.

                         

                        Thanks.

                         


                        --- On Mon, 1/16/12, kevin conlin <kevin@...> wrote:


                        From: kevin conlin <kevin@...>
                        Subject: RE: [hreg] Trade War with China Could Cripple US Solar Industry
                        To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                        Date: Monday, January 16, 2012, 5:27 PM

                         

                        Solar thermal water heating is cost effective in Houston when replacing an electric water heater, but it’s a hard sell

                         

                        The problem is nobody in Houston gets excited about putting a water heater on their roof

                         

                        Energy wise, China produces more solar water heaters than PV panels

                         

                        Kevin Conlin

                        Heliosolar Design Inc

                        PO Box 1938

                        Alief, TX 77411

                        281-202-9629

                        kevin@...

                         

                         

                         

                         

                        From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Andrea Wisner
                        Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 3:53 PM
                        To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [hreg] Trade War with China Could Cripple US Solar Industry

                         

                        I'm still wondering is there's a resource out there as to in which markets solar in cost-effective and which it's not. There was another email suggesting it's more cost-effective in Central America. What is the balance for Houston?

                         

                        Andrea

                         

                        From: ralph parrott <ralph.parrott@...>
                        To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 2:24 PM
                        Subject: [hreg] Trade War with China Could Cripple US Solar Industry

                         

                         

                        Friday, January 13, 2012


                        Miami Herald
                        by Jigar Shah

                        Six decades ago, Gen. Omar Bradley warned that expanding the Korean War into China would be "the wrong war, at the wrong place, at the wrong time, with the wrong enemy." Now the same could be said about the trade war that is brewing with China in the solar energy industry.

                        Cutting off China and threatening U.S. solar jobs started in October when a German company with a manufacturing facility in Oregon filed a trade complaint with the U.S. International Trade Commission and the Department of Commerce demanding that punitive tariffs be imposed on solar panels and cells imported from China. Just before New Year's Day, several U.S. manufacturers filed a similar petition against China and Vietnam seeking special surcharges on wind towers imported from these countries.

                        Now that the first shots have been fired, there's a growing danger that China will retaliate. Already, China is considering asking the World Trade Organization to investigate alleged unfair practices in U.S. clean energy policies, including programs in Washington, California, New Jersey, Ohio and Massachusetts.

                        If these frictions ignite a full-scale trade war, our country's casualties could include eliminating many of 100,000-plus good-paying jobs (which have been expected to grow to almost 124,000 at the end of 2012), delaying dozens of solar energy projects, raising prices for consumers, reducing our energy security, and reversing the progress of an industry that is running an all-too-rare trade surplus with the rest of the world, including China.

                        For all the sound and fury, low prices for solar panels and cells aren't the problem, and protectionism isn't the solution. Several decades of private investment, public support and scientific progress are bearing fruit for a U.S. solar energy industry that now can generate electricity with costs, in some markets, that are competitive with power produced from fossil fuels.

                        At a time when the growth rate in the entire economy is a sluggish 0.7 percent, the U.S. solar industry, now numbering almost 5,000 companies, is expanding at a rate of 6.8 percent a year. Since 2009, the sector has doubled its workforce, providing more than 100,000 high-skilled, high-wage jobs, including installers, technicians and professionals in scientific research, finance and allied services.

                         

                         

                        Ralph Parrott

                         

                        President

                         

                        IMPORTANT NOTICE: This transmission (including all attached pages) is intended only for the use of the named address(es), and may contain information that is privileged or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not a named addressee, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distributing or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please destroy all copies and notify us immediately at this telephone number: (713) 595-6375. Thank you!

                         

                         

                         

                      • kevin conlin
                        Hi Philip, Slight miscommunication, please see my clarification below………:-) Best Regards, Kevin Kevin Conlin Heliosolar Design Inc PO Box 1938 Alief, TX
                        Message 11 of 20 , Jan 17, 2012
                        • 0 Attachment

                          Hi Philip, Slight miscommunication, please see my clarification below………:-)

                           

                          Best Regards,

                           

                          Kevin

                           

                          Kevin Conlin

                          Heliosolar Design Inc

                          PO Box 1938

                          Alief, TX 77411

                          281-202-9629

                          kevin@...

                           

                           

                           

                           

                          From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Philip Timmons
                          Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 1:29 PM
                          To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: RE: [hreg] Trade War with China Could Cripple US Solar Industry - responding

                           

                          Thanks so much, Kevin.

                           

                          From #1, I think I follow that you were thinking along the line of using PV to make electricity, which would then heat the water.  No, actually I was trying to prevent that at all costs   I was considering separate PV and thermal collectors. It’s been my experience that with a properly sized solar thermal system you can literally turn the backup element off for 9 months a year. It would be very important to do this, otherwise valuable PV power could be used to heat water  You are correct, in some of the TOU plans, while that is extreme, it does actually make sense. 

                           

                          What I was trying to discuss is using Solar Thermal (only, No PV) for generation of both the Hot Water and Electricity.  So thanks for showing me that I need to be very clear on that.

                          I’m not sure what technology you’re referring to, can you please elaborate?  I’m not familiar with any residential systems using solar thermal to generate electricity

                           

                          On #2, Money makes the difference.  Agreed. It’s been the key to widespread adoption by CPS in San Antonio, they have an excellent offering thanks to financing by the San Antonio Credit Union

                           

                          Anyone have interest in running some test equipment / sites?

                           

                           



                          --- On Mon, 1/16/12, kevin conlin <kevin@...> wrote:


                          From: kevin conlin <kevin@...>
                          Subject: RE: [hreg] Trade War with China Could Cripple US Solar Industry - responding
                          To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                          Date: Monday, January 16, 2012, 6:18 PM

                           

                          Philip,

                           

                          Please see my comments below….

                           

                          Best Regards,

                           

                          Kevin

                           

                          Kevin Conlin

                          Heliosolar Design Inc

                          PO Box 1938

                          Alief, TX 77411

                          281-202-9629

                          kevin@...

                           

                           

                           

                           

                          From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Philip Timmons
                          Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 5:33 PM
                          To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: RE: [hreg] Trade War with China Could Cripple US Solar Industry

                           

                          Learned something from you, today.

                           

                          Pick your brain with some market survey questions? 

                           

                          1.      Do you think there would be much interest in a combined electric power and hot water solar system?  Yes, it makes better economic sense, especially if the water heater backup element is turned off to avoid time of day pricing.  The solar water heater will probably outperform the PV system in terms of savings in an all electric home, but most of Houston has natural gas.

                           

                          2. How about if space heat / cooling (A/C) were part of it? Again, yes, especially if an integrated system offered enhanced savings.  Smart home technology may be the bridge linking all of the technologies together, but the key will be using the right hardware and offering financing so the savings exceed the payments.

                           

                          Thanks.

                           


                          --- On Mon, 1/16/12, kevin conlin <kevin@...> wrote:


                          From: kevin conlin <kevin@...>
                          Subject: RE: [hreg] Trade War with China Could Cripple US Solar Industry
                          To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                          Date: Monday, January 16, 2012, 5:27 PM

                           

                          Solar thermal water heating is cost effective in Houston when replacing an electric water heater, but it’s a hard sell

                           

                          The problem is nobody in Houston gets excited about putting a water heater on their roof

                           

                          Energy wise, China produces more solar water heaters than PV panels

                           

                          Kevin Conlin

                          Heliosolar Design Inc

                          PO Box 1938

                          Alief, TX 77411

                          281-202-9629

                          kevin@...

                           

                           

                           

                           

                          From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Andrea Wisner
                          Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 3:53 PM
                          To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [hreg] Trade War with China Could Cripple US Solar Industry

                           

                          I'm still wondering is there's a resource out there as to in which markets solar in cost-effective and which it's not. There was another email suggesting it's more cost-effective in Central America. What is the balance for Houston?

                           

                          Andrea

                           

                          From: ralph parrott <ralph.parrott@...>
                          To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 2:24 PM
                          Subject: [hreg] Trade War with China Could Cripple US Solar Industry

                           

                           

                          Friday, January 13, 2012


                          Miami Herald
                          by Jigar Shah

                          Six decades ago, Gen. Omar Bradley warned that expanding the Korean War into China would be "the wrong war, at the wrong place, at the wrong time, with the wrong enemy." Now the same could be said about the trade war that is brewing with China in the solar energy industry.

                          Cutting off China and threatening U.S. solar jobs started in October when a German company with a manufacturing facility in Oregon filed a trade complaint with the U.S. International Trade Commission and the Department of Commerce demanding that punitive tariffs be imposed on solar panels and cells imported from China. Just before New Year's Day, several U.S. manufacturers filed a similar petition against China and Vietnam seeking special surcharges on wind towers imported from these countries.

                          Now that the first shots have been fired, there's a growing danger that China will retaliate. Already, China is considering asking the World Trade Organization to investigate alleged unfair practices in U.S. clean energy policies, including programs in Washington, California, New Jersey, Ohio and Massachusetts.

                          If these frictions ignite a full-scale trade war, our country's casualties could include eliminating many of 100,000-plus good-paying jobs (which have been expected to grow to almost 124,000 at the end of 2012), delaying dozens of solar energy projects, raising prices for consumers, reducing our energy security, and reversing the progress of an industry that is running an all-too-rare trade surplus with the rest of the world, including China.

                          For all the sound and fury, low prices for solar panels and cells aren't the problem, and protectionism isn't the solution. Several decades of private investment, public support and scientific progress are bearing fruit for a U.S. solar energy industry that now can generate electricity with costs, in some markets, that are competitive with power produced from fossil fuels.

                          At a time when the growth rate in the entire economy is a sluggish 0.7 percent, the U.S. solar industry, now numbering almost 5,000 companies, is expanding at a rate of 6.8 percent a year. Since 2009, the sector has doubled its workforce, providing more than 100,000 high-skilled, high-wage jobs, including installers, technicians and professionals in scientific research, finance and allied services.

                           

                           

                          Ralph Parrott

                           

                          President

                           

                          IMPORTANT NOTICE: This transmission (including all attached pages) is intended only for the use of the named address(es), and may contain information that is privileged or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not a named addressee, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distributing or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please destroy all copies and notify us immediately at this telephone number: (713) 595-6375. Thank you!

                           

                           

                           

                           

                        • Philip Timmons
                          The solar thermal to electricity -- at least at the small scale -- are new toys.  That was why I was wondering if anyone would like to do or be test sites.  
                          Message 12 of 20 , Jan 17, 2012
                          • 0 Attachment
                            The solar thermal to electricity -- at least at the small scale -- are new toys.  That was why I was wondering if anyone would like to do or be test sites.
                             
                            When looking at the typical overall energy use -- electricity use, as electricity, per se -- not turned into some sort of heat or cool -- like light, TV, PC, maybe a fan or two -- is pretty minor compared to the Thermal component(s) -- like Space Heat and Cooling, or Water Heating, as you noted here.
                             
                            So I am figuring it makes better sense to just do a LOT of Thermal (compared to PV), and not make so much electricity.  Which is some bothersome thinking to an EE, let me tell you. :)
                             
                            At any rate, with the various Thermal Loads all going away, it only leaves a small amount for the  electricity generation portion of  a system to do.   So I am looking for holes or blind spots in that thinking -- so if anyone sees any problems in it, I am hoping they may speak up.
                             
                             
                             
                             
                             


                            --- On Tue, 1/17/12, kevin conlin <kevin@...> wrote:

                            From: kevin conlin <kevin@...>
                            Subject: [hreg] solar thermal/pv discussion - responding
                            To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                            Date: Tuesday, January 17, 2012, 2:15 PM

                             

                            Hi Philip, Slight miscommunication, please see my clarification below………:-)

                             

                            Best Regards,

                             

                            Kevin

                             

                            Kevin Conlin

                            Heliosolar Design Inc

                            PO Box 1938

                            Alief, TX 77411

                            281-202-9629

                            kevin@...

                             

                             

                             

                             

                            From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Philip Timmons
                            Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 1:29 PM
                            To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: RE: [hreg] Trade War with China Could Cripple US Solar Industry - responding

                             

                            Thanks so much, Kevin.

                             

                            From #1, I think I follow that you were thinking along the line of using PV to make electricity, which would then heat the water.  No, actually I was trying to prevent that at all costs   I was considering separate PV and thermal collectors. It’s been my experience that with a properly sized solar thermal system you can literally turn the backup element off for 9 months a year. It would be very important to do this, otherwise valuable PV power could be used to heat water  You are correct, in some of the TOU plans, while that is extreme, it does actually make sense. 

                             

                            What I was trying to discuss is using Solar Thermal (only, No PV) for generation of both the Hot Water and Electricity.  So thanks for showing me that I need to be very clear on that.

                            I’m not sure what technology you’re referring to, can you please elaborate?  I’m not familiar with any residential systems using solar thermal to generate electricity

                             

                            On #2, Money makes the difference.  Agreed. It’s been the key to widespread adoption by CPS in San Antonio, they have an excellent offering thanks to financing by the San Antonio Credit Union

                             

                            Anyone have interest in running some test equipment / sites?

                             

                             



                            --- On Mon, 1/16/12, kevin conlin <kevin@...> wrote:


                            From: kevin conlin <kevin@...>
                            Subject: RE: [hreg] Trade War with China Could Cripple US Solar Industry - responding
                            To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                            Date: Monday, January 16, 2012, 6:18 PM

                             

                            Philip,

                             

                            Please see my comments below….

                             

                            Best Regards,

                             

                            Kevin

                             

                            Kevin Conlin

                            Heliosolar Design Inc

                            PO Box 1938

                            Alief, TX 77411

                            281-202-9629

                            kevin@...

                             

                             

                             

                             

                            From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Philip Timmons
                            Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 5:33 PM
                            To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: RE: [hreg] Trade War with China Could Cripple US Solar Industry

                             

                            Learned something from you, today.

                             

                            Pick your brain with some market survey questions? 

                             

                            1.      Do you think there would be much interest in a combined electric power and hot water solar system?  Yes, it makes better economic sense, especially if the water heater backup element is turned off to avoid time of day pricing.  The solar water heater will probably outperform the PV system in terms of savings in an all electric home, but most of Houston has natural gas.

                             

                            2. How about if space heat / cooling (A/C) were part of it? Again, yes, especially if an integrated system offered enhanced savings.  Smart home technology may be the bridge linking all of the technologies together, but the key will be using the right hardware and offering financing so the savings exceed the payments.

                             

                            Thanks.

                             


                            --- On Mon, 1/16/12, kevin conlin <kevin@...> wrote:


                            From: kevin conlin <kevin@...>
                            Subject: RE: [hreg] Trade War with China Could Cripple US Solar Industry
                            To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                            Date: Monday, January 16, 2012, 5:27 PM

                             

                            Solar thermal water heating is cost effective in Houston when replacing an electric water heater, but it’s a hard sell

                             

                            The problem is nobody in Houston gets excited about putting a water heater on their roof

                             

                            Energy wise, China produces more solar water heaters than PV panels

                             

                            Kevin Conlin

                            Heliosolar Design Inc

                            PO Box 1938

                            Alief, TX 77411

                            281-202-9629

                            kevin@...

                             

                             

                             

                             

                            From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Andrea Wisner
                            Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 3:53 PM
                            To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [hreg] Trade War with China Could Cripple US Solar Industry

                             

                            I'm still wondering is there's a resource out there as to in which markets solar in cost-effective and which it's not. There was another email suggesting it's more cost-effective in Central America. What is the balance for Houston?

                             

                            Andrea

                             

                            From: ralph parrott <ralph.parrott@...>
                            To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 2:24 PM
                            Subject: [hreg] Trade War with China Could Cripple US Solar Industry

                             

                             

                            Friday, January 13, 2012


                            Miami Herald
                            by Jigar Shah

                            Six decades ago, Gen. Omar Bradley warned that expanding the Korean War into China would be "the wrong war, at the wrong place, at the wrong time, with the wrong enemy." Now the same could be said about the trade war that is brewing with China in the solar energy industry.

                            Cutting off China and threatening U.S. solar jobs started in October when a German company with a manufacturing facility in Oregon filed a trade complaint with the U.S. International Trade Commission and the Department of Commerce demanding that punitive tariffs be imposed on solar panels and cells imported from China. Just before New Year's Day, several U.S. manufacturers filed a similar petition against China and Vietnam seeking special surcharges on wind towers imported from these countries.

                            Now that the first shots have been fired, there's a growing danger that China will retaliate. Already, China is considering asking the World Trade Organization to investigate alleged unfair practices in U.S. clean energy policies, including programs in Washington, California, New Jersey, Ohio and Massachusetts.

                            If these frictions ignite a full-scale trade war, our country's casualties could include eliminating many of 100,000-plus good-paying jobs (which have been expected to grow to almost 124,000 at the end of 2012), delaying dozens of solar energy projects, raising prices for consumers, reducing our energy security, and reversing the progress of an industry that is running an all-too-rare trade surplus with the rest of the world, including China.

                            For all the sound and fury, low prices for solar panels and cells aren't the problem, and protectionism isn't the solution. Several decades of private investment, public support and scientific progress are bearing fruit for a U.S. solar energy industry that now can generate electricity with costs, in some markets, that are competitive with power produced from fossil fuels.

                            At a time when the growth rate in the entire economy is a sluggish 0.7 percent, the U.S. solar industry, now numbering almost 5,000 companies, is expanding at a rate of 6.8 percent a year. Since 2009, the sector has doubled its workforce, providing more than 100,000 high-skilled, high-wage jobs, including installers, technicians and professionals in scientific research, finance and allied services.

                             

                             

                            Ralph Parrott

                             

                            President

                             

                            IMPORTANT NOTICE: This transmission (including all attached pages) is intended only for the use of the named address(es), and may contain information that is privileged or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not a named addressee, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distributing or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please destroy all copies and notify us immediately at this telephone number: (713) 595-6375. Thank you!

                             

                             

                             

                             

                          • Jay Ring
                            One possibility I haven t seen considered is using a absorption cycle refrigerator as an air conditioning unit. These are the ammonia refrigeration that are
                            Message 13 of 20 , Jan 17, 2012
                            • 0 Attachment
                              One possibility I haven't seen considered is using a absorption cycle refrigerator as an air conditioning unit. These are the ammonia refrigeration that are usually propane powered. You sometimes see on RVs.

                              They are a little unusual because their input is heat - they use the heat to cool thing. That has always seemed counter-intuitive to me.

                              The idea is essentially what you describe. Move a large PV load (air conditioning) to a thermal load.

                              Their main drawback over the compression cycle is their very low efficiency. But a PV powered compressor(currently) also has a very low end-to-end efficiency, so it might work out. I really have no idea.




                              --- In hreg@yahoogroups.com, Philip Timmons <philiptimmons@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > The solar thermal to electricity -- at least at the small scale -- are new toys.  That was why I was wondering if anyone would like to do or be test sites.

                              > When looking at the typical overall energy use -- electricity use, as electricity, per se -- not turned into some sort of heat or cool -- like light, TV, PC, maybe a fan or two -- is pretty minor compared to the Thermal component(s) -- like Space Heat and Cooling, or Water Heating, as you noted here.

                              > So I am figuring it makes better sense to just do a LOT of Thermal (compared to PV), and not make so much electricity.  Which is some bothersome thinking to an EE, let me tell you. :)

                              > At any rate, with the various Thermal Loads all going away, it only leaves a small amount for the  electricity generation portion of  a system to do.   So I am looking for holes or blind spots in that thinking -- so if anyone sees any problems in it, I am hoping they may speak up.


                              >
                              >
                              > --- On Tue, 1/17/12, kevin conlin <kevin@...> wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              > From: kevin conlin <kevin@...>
                              > Subject: [hreg] solar thermal/pv discussion - responding
                              > To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                              > Date: Tuesday, January 17, 2012, 2:15 PM
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >  
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Hi Philip, Slight miscommunication, please see my clarification below………:-)
                              >  
                              > Best Regards,
                              >  
                              > Kevin
                              >  
                              > Kevin Conlin
                              > Heliosolar Design Inc
                              > PO Box 1938
                              > Alief, TX 77411
                              > 281-202-9629
                              > kevin@...
                              >  
                              >  
                              >  
                              >  
                              >
                              > From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Philip Timmons
                              > Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 1:29 PM
                              > To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                              > Subject: RE: [hreg] Trade War with China Could Cripple US Solar Industry - responding
                              >  
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Thanks so much, Kevin.
                              >
                              >  
                              >
                              > From #1, I think I follow that you were thinking along the line of using PV to make electricity, which would then heat the water.  No, actually I was trying to prevent that at all costs   I was considering separate PV and thermal collectors. It’s been my experience that with a properly sized solar thermal system you can literally turn the backup element off for 9 months a year. It would be very important to do this, otherwise valuable PV power could be used to heat water  You are correct, in some of the TOU plans, while that is extreme, it does actually make sense. 
                              >
                              >  
                              >
                              > What I was trying to discuss is using Solar Thermal (only, No PV) for generation of both the Hot Water and Electricity.  So thanks for showing me that I need to be very clear on that.
                              > I’m not sure what technology you’re referring to, can you please elaborate?  I’m not familiar with any residential systems using solar thermal to generate electricity
                              >
                              >  
                              >
                              > On #2, Money makes the difference.  Agreed. It’s been the key to widespread adoption by CPS in San Antonio, they have an excellent offering thanks to financing by the San Antonio Credit Union
                              >
                              >  
                              >
                              > Anyone have interest in running some test equipment / sites?
                              >
                              >  
                              >
                              >  
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > --- On Mon, 1/16/12, kevin conlin <kevin@...> wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              > From: kevin conlin <kevin@...>
                              > Subject: RE: [hreg] Trade War with China Could Cripple US Solar Industry - responding
                              > To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                              > Date: Monday, January 16, 2012, 6:18 PM
                              >
                              >
                              >  
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Philip,
                              >  
                              > Please see my comments below….
                              >  
                              > Best Regards,
                              >  
                              > Kevin
                              >  
                              > Kevin Conlin
                              > Heliosolar Design Inc
                              > PO Box 1938
                              > Alief, TX 77411
                              > 281-202-9629
                              > kevin@...
                              >  
                              >  
                              >  
                              >  
                              >
                              > From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Philip Timmons
                              > Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 5:33 PM
                              > To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                              > Subject: RE: [hreg] Trade War with China Could Cripple US Solar Industry
                              >  
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Learned something from you, today.
                              >
                              >  
                              >
                              > Pick your brain with some market survey questions? 
                              >
                              >  
                              >
                              > 1.      Do you think there would be much interest in a combined electric power and hot water solar system?  Yes, it makes better economic sense, especially if the water heater backup element is turned off to avoid time of day pricing.  The solar water heater will probably outperform the PV system in terms of savings in an all electric home, but most of Houston has natural gas.
                              >  
                              >
                              > 2. How about if space heat / cooling (A/C) were part of it? Again, yes, especially if an integrated system offered enhanced savings.  Smart home technology may be the bridge linking all of the technologies together, but the key will be using the right hardware and offering financing so the savings exceed the payments.
                              >
                              >  
                              >
                              > Thanks.
                              >
                              >  
                              >
                              >
                              > --- On Mon, 1/16/12, kevin conlin <kevin@...> wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              > From: kevin conlin <kevin@...>
                              > Subject: RE: [hreg] Trade War with China Could Cripple US Solar Industry
                              > To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                              > Date: Monday, January 16, 2012, 5:27 PM
                              >
                              >
                              >  
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Solar thermal water heating is cost effective in Houston when replacing an electric water heater, but it’s a hard sell
                              >  
                              > The problem is nobody in Houston gets excited about putting a water heater on their roof
                              >  
                              > Energy wise, China produces more solar water heaters than PV panels
                              >  
                              >
                              > Kevin Conlin
                              > Heliosolar Design Inc
                              > PO Box 1938
                              > Alief, TX 77411
                              > 281-202-9629
                              > kevin@...
                              >  
                              >  
                              >  
                              >  
                              >
                              >
                              > From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Andrea Wisner
                              > Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 3:53 PM
                              > To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                              > Subject: Re: [hreg] Trade War with China Could Cripple US Solar Industry
                              >  
                              >
                              >
                              > I'm still wondering is there's a resource out there as to in which markets solar in cost-effective and which it's not. There was another email suggesting it's more cost-effective in Central America. What is the balance for Houston?
                              >
                              >  
                              >
                              > Andrea
                              >
                              >  
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > From: ralph parrott <ralph.parrott@...>
                              > To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                              > Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 2:24 PM
                              > Subject: [hreg] Trade War with China Could Cripple US Solar Industry
                              >  
                              >
                              >
                              >  
                              >
                              >
                              > Friday, January 13, 2012
                              >
                              >
                              > Miami Herald
                              > by Jigar Shah
                              >
                              > Six decades ago, Gen. Omar Bradley warned that expanding the Korean War into China would be "the wrong war, at the wrong place, at the wrong time, with the wrong enemy." Now the same could be said about the trade war that is brewing with China in the solar energy industry.
                              >
                              > Cutting off China and threatening U.S. solar jobs started in October when a German company with a manufacturing facility in Oregon filed a trade complaint with the U.S. International Trade Commission and the Department of Commerce demanding that punitive tariffs be imposed on solar panels and cells imported from China. Just before New Year's Day, several U.S. manufacturers filed a similar petition against China and Vietnam seeking special surcharges on wind towers imported from these countries.
                              >
                              > Now that the first shots have been fired, there's a growing danger that China will retaliate. Already, China is considering asking the World Trade Organization to investigate alleged unfair practices in U.S. clean energy policies, including programs in Washington, California, New Jersey, Ohio and Massachusetts.
                              >
                              > If these frictions ignite a full-scale trade war, our country's casualties could include eliminating many of 100,000-plus good-paying jobs (which have been expected to grow to almost 124,000 at the end of 2012), delaying dozens of solar energy projects, raising prices for consumers, reducing our energy security, and reversing the progress of an industry that is running an all-too-rare trade surplus with the rest of the world, including China.
                              >
                              > For all the sound and fury, low prices for solar panels and cells aren't the problem, and protectionism isn't the solution. Several decades of private investment, public support and scientific progress are bearing fruit for a U.S. solar energy industry that now can generate electricity with costs, in some markets, that are competitive with power produced from fossil fuels.
                              >
                              > At a time when the growth rate in the entire economy is a sluggish 0.7 percent, the U.S. solar industry, now numbering almost 5,000 companies, is expanding at a rate of 6.8 percent a year. Since 2009, the sector has doubled its workforce, providing more than 100,000 high-skilled, high-wage jobs, including installers, technicians and professionals in scientific research, finance and allied services.
                              >
                              >  
                              >
                              >  
                              >
                              > Ralph Parrott
                              >
                              >  
                              >
                              > President
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > http://www.txses.org/hreg
                              >
                              >  
                              >
                              > IMPORTANT NOTICE: This transmission (including all attached pages) is intended only for the use of the named address(es), and may contain information that is privileged or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not a named addressee, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distributing or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please destroy all copies and notify us immediately at this telephone number: (713) 595-6375. Thank you!
                              >
                              >  
                              >  
                              >  
                              >  
                              >
                            • syed jafri
                              Hi Everyone, Hope you all are great. For me, it is interesting informtion that Kevin Conlin and philip Timmons are discussing on. Thanks a lot to Kevin and
                              Message 14 of 20 , Jan 18, 2012
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Hi Everyone,
                                      Hope you all are great. For me, it is interesting informtion that Kevin Conlin and philip Timmons are discussing on.
                                          Thanks a lot to Kevin and Philip
                                Have a great day

                                S. M. Raza
                                An Engineering Student


                                To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                                From: philiptimmons@...
                                Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2012 12:54:43 -0800
                                Subject: Re: [hreg] solar thermal/pv discussion - responding

                                The solar thermal to electricity -- at least at the small scale -- are new toys.  That was why I was wondering if anyone would like to do or be test sites.
                                 
                                When looking at the typical overall energy use -- electricity use, as electricity, per se -- not turned into some sort of heat or cool -- like light, TV, PC, maybe a fan or two -- is pretty minor compared to the Thermal component(s) -- like Space Heat and Cooling, or Water Heating, as you noted here.
                                 
                                So I am figuring it makes better sense to just do a LOT of Thermal (compared to PV), and not make so much electricity.  Which is some bothersome thinking to an EE, let me tell you. :)
                                 
                                At any rate, with the various Thermal Loads all going away, it only leaves a small amount for the  electricity generation portion of  a system to do.   So I am looking for holes or blind spots in that thinking -- so if anyone sees any problems in it, I am hoping they may speak up.
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                 


                                --- On Tue, 1/17/12, kevin conlin <kevin@...> wrote:

                                From: kevin conlin <kevin@...>
                                Subject: [hreg] solar thermal/pv discussion - responding
                                To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                                Date: Tuesday, January 17, 2012, 2:15 PM

                                 

                                Hi Philip, Slight miscommunication, please see my clarification below………:-)

                                 

                                Best Regards,

                                 

                                Kevin

                                 

                                Kevin Conlin

                                Heliosolar Design Inc

                                PO Box 1938

                                Alief, TX 77411

                                281-202-9629

                                kevin@...

                                 

                                 

                                 

                                 

                                From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Philip Timmons
                                Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 1:29 PM
                                To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: RE: [hreg] Trade War with China Could Cripple US Solar Industry - responding

                                 

                                Thanks so much, Kevin.

                                 

                                From #1, I think I follow that you were thinking along the line of using PV to make electricity, which would then heat the water.  No, actually I was trying to prevent that at all costs   I was considering separate PV and thermal collectors. It’s been my experience that with a properly sized solar thermal system you can literally turn the backup element off for 9 months a year. It would be very important to do this, otherwise valuable PV power could be used to heat water  You are correct, in some of the TOU plans, while that is extreme, it does actually make sense. 

                                 

                                What I was trying to discuss is using Solar Thermal (only, No PV) for generation of both the Hot Water and Electricity.  So thanks for showing me that I need to be very clear on that.

                                I’m not sure what technology you’re referring to, can you please elaborate?  I’m not familiar with any residential systems using solar thermal to generate electricity

                                 

                                On #2, Money makes the difference.  Agreed. It’s been the key to widespread adoption by CPS in San Antonio, they have an excellent offering thanks to financing by the San Antonio Credit Union

                                 

                                Anyone have interest in running some test equipment / sites?

                                 

                                 



                                --- On Mon, 1/16/12, kevin conlin <kevin@...> wrote:


                                From: kevin conlin <kevin@...>
                                Subject: RE: [hreg] Trade War with China Could Cripple US Solar Industry - responding
                                To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                                Date: Monday, January 16, 2012, 6:18 PM

                                 

                                Philip,

                                 

                                Please see my comments below….

                                 

                                Best Regards,

                                 

                                Kevin

                                 

                                Kevin Conlin

                                Heliosolar Design Inc

                                PO Box 1938

                                Alief, TX 77411

                                281-202-9629

                                kevin@...

                                 

                                 

                                 

                                 

                                From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Philip Timmons
                                Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 5:33 PM
                                To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: RE: [hreg] Trade War with China Could Cripple US Solar Industry

                                 

                                Learned something from you, today.

                                 

                                Pick your brain with some market survey questions? 

                                 

                                1.      Do you think there would be much interest in a combined electric power and hot water solar system?  Yes, it makes better economic sense, especially if the water heater backup element is turned off to avoid time of day pricing.  The solar water heater will probably outperform the PV system in terms of savings in an all electric home, but most of Houston has natural gas.

                                 

                                2. How about if space heat / cooling (A/C) were part of it? Again, yes, especially if an integrated system offered enhanced savings.  Smart home technology may be the bridge linking all of the technologies together, but the key will be using the right hardware and offering financing so the savings exceed the payments.

                                 

                                Thanks.

                                 


                                --- On Mon, 1/16/12, kevin conlin <kevin@...> wrote:


                                From: kevin conlin <kevin@...>
                                Subject: RE: [hreg] Trade War with China Could Cripple US Solar Industry
                                To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                                Date: Monday, January 16, 2012, 5:27 PM

                                 

                                Solar thermal water heating is cost effective in Houston when replacing an electric water heater, but it’s a hard sell

                                 

                                The problem is nobody in Houston gets excited about putting a water heater on their roof

                                 

                                Energy wise, China produces more solar water heaters than PV panels

                                 

                                Kevin Conlin

                                Heliosolar Design Inc

                                PO Box 1938

                                Alief, TX 77411

                                281-202-9629

                                kevin@...

                                 

                                 

                                 

                                 

                                From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Andrea Wisner
                                Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 3:53 PM
                                To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: Re: [hreg] Trade War with China Could Cripple US Solar Industry

                                 

                                I'm still wondering is there's a resource out there as to in which markets solar in cost-effective and which it's not. There was another email suggesting it's more cost-effective in Central America. What is the balance for Houston?

                                 

                                Andrea

                                 

                                From: ralph parrott <ralph.parrott@...>
                                To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 2:24 PM
                                Subject: [hreg] Trade War with China Could Cripple US Solar Industry

                                 

                                 

                                Friday, January 13, 2012


                                Miami Herald
                                by Jigar Shah

                                Six decades ago, Gen. Omar Bradley warned that expanding the Korean War into China would be "the wrong war, at the wrong place, at the wrong time, with the wrong enemy." Now the same could be said about the trade war that is brewing with China in the solar energy industry.

                                Cutting off China and threatening U.S. solar jobs started in October when a German company with a manufacturing facility in Oregon filed a trade complaint with the U.S. International Trade Commission and the Department of Commerce demanding that punitive tariffs be imposed on solar panels and cells imported from China. Just before New Year's Day, several U.S. manufacturers filed a similar petition against China and Vietnam seeking special surcharges on wind towers imported from these countries.

                                Now that the first shots have been fired, there's a growing danger that China will retaliate. Already, China is considering asking the World Trade Organization to investigate alleged unfair practices in U.S. clean energy policies, including programs in Washington, California, New Jersey, Ohio and Massachusetts.

                                If these frictions ignite a full-scale trade war, our country's casualties could include eliminating many of 100,000-plus good-paying jobs (which have been expected to grow to almost 124,000 at the end of 2012), delaying dozens of solar energy projects, raising prices for consumers, reducing our energy security, and reversing the progress of an industry that is running an all-too-rare trade surplus with the rest of the world, including China.

                                For all the sound and fury, low prices for solar panels and cells aren't the problem, and protectionism isn't the solution. Several decades of private investment, public support and scientific progress are bearing fruit for a U.S. solar energy industry that now can generate electricity with costs, in some markets, that are competitive with power produced from fossil fuels.

                                At a time when the growth rate in the entire economy is a sluggish 0.7 percent, the U.S. solar industry, now numbering almost 5,000 companies, is expanding at a rate of 6.8 percent a year. Since 2009, the sector has doubled its workforce, providing more than 100,000 high-skilled, high-wage jobs, including installers, technicians and professionals in scientific research, finance and allied services.

                                 

                                 

                                Ralph Parrott

                                 

                                President

                                 

                                IMPORTANT NOTICE: This transmission (including all attached pages) is intended only for the use of the named address(es), and may contain information that is privileged or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not a named addressee, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distributing or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please destroy all copies and notify us immediately at this telephone number: (713) 595-6375. Thank you!

                                 

                                 

                                 

                                 

                              • Philip Timmons
                                Hey Syed,   For some deeper background, this link is sort of typical of the topic.  If you look through their site, there are Heat, Water and A/C
                                Message 15 of 20 , Jan 18, 2012
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Hey Syed,
                                   
                                  For some deeper background, this link is sort of typical of the topic.  If you look through their site, there are Heat, Water and A/C applications.
                                   
                                   
                                  Sopogy is out of Hawaii.  Using thermal components to handle thermal loads (heat, water, A/C) is an easy win in Hawaii, as their electricity costs are typically more than double ours.

                                  --- On Wed, 1/18/12, syed jafri <smraza2001@...> wrote:

                                  From: syed jafri <smraza2001@...>
                                  Subject: RE: [hreg] solar thermal/pv discussion - responding
                                  To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                                  Date: Wednesday, January 18, 2012, 2:53 AM

                                   
                                  Hi Everyone,
                                        Hope you all are great. For me, it is interesting informtion that Kevin Conlin and philip Timmons are discussing on.
                                            Thanks a lot to Kevin and Philip
                                  Have a great day

                                  S. M. Raza
                                  An Engineering Student


                                  To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                                  From: philiptimmons@...
                                  Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2012 12:54:43 -0800
                                  Subject: Re: [hreg] solar thermal/pv discussion - responding

                                   

                                  Kevin

                                   

                                  Kevin Conlin

                                  Heliosolar Design Inc

                                  PO Box 1938

                                  Alief, TX 77411

                                  281-202-9629

                                  kevin@...

                                   

                                   

                                   

                                   

                                  From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Philip Timmons
                                  Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 1:29 PM
                                  To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: RE: [hreg] Trade War with China Could Cripple US Solar Industry - responding

                                   

                                  The solar thermal to electricity -- at least at the small scale -- are new toys.  That was why I was wondering if anyone would like to do or be test sites.
                                   
                                  When looking at the typical overall energy use -- electricity use, as electricity, per se -- not turned into some sort of heat or cool -- like light, TV, PC, maybe a fan or two -- is pretty minor compared to the Thermal component(s) -- like Space Heat and Cooling, or Water Heating, as you noted here.
                                   
                                  So I am figuring it makes better sense to just do a LOT of Thermal (compared to PV), and not make so much electricity.  Which is some bothersome thinking to an EE, let me tell you. :)
                                   
                                  At any rate, with the various Thermal Loads all going away, it only leaves a small amount for the  electricity generation portion of  a system to do.   So I am looking for holes or blind spots in that thinking -- so if anyone sees any problems in it, I am hoping they may speak up.
                                   
                                   
                                   
                                   
                                   


                                  --- On Tue, 1/17/12, kevin conlin <kevin@...> wrote:

                                  From: kevin conlin <kevin@...>
                                  Subject: [hreg] solar thermal/pv discussion - responding
                                  To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                                  Date: Tuesday, January 17, 2012, 2:15 PM

                                   

                                  Hi Philip, Slight miscommunication, please see my clarification below………:-)

                                   

                                  Best Regards,

                                  Thanks so much, Kevin.

                                   

                                  From #1, I think I follow that you were thinking along the line of using PV to make electricity, which would then heat the water.  No, actually I was trying to prevent that at all costs   I was considering separate PV and thermal collectors. It’s been my experience that with a properly sized solar thermal system you can literally turn the backup element off for 9 months a year. It would be very important to do this, otherwise valuable PV power could be used to heat water  You are correct, in some of the TOU plans, while that is extreme, it does actually make sense. 

                                   

                                  What I was trying to discuss is using Solar Thermal (only, No PV) for generation of both the Hot Water and Electricity.  So thanks for showing me that I need to be very clear on that.

                                  I’m not sure what technology you’re referring to, can you please elaborate?  I’m not familiar with any residential systems using solar thermal to generate electricity

                                   

                                  On #2, Money makes the difference.  Agreed. It’s been the key to widespread adoption by CPS in San Antonio, they have an excellent offering thanks to financing by the San Antonio Credit Union

                                   

                                  Anyone have interest in running some test equipment / sites?

                                   

                                   



                                  --- On Mon, 1/16/12, kevin conlin <kevin@...> wrote:


                                  From: kevin conlin <kevin@...>
                                  Subject: RE: [hreg] Trade War with China Could Cripple US Solar Industry - responding
                                  To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                                  Date: Monday, January 16, 2012, 6:18 PM

                                   

                                  Philip,

                                   

                                  Please see my comments below….

                                   

                                  Best Regards,

                                   

                                  Kevin

                                   

                                  Kevin Conlin

                                  Heliosolar Design Inc

                                  PO Box 1938

                                  Alief, TX 77411

                                  281-202-9629

                                  kevin@...

                                   

                                   

                                   

                                   

                                  From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Philip Timmons
                                  Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 5:33 PM
                                  To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: RE: [hreg] Trade War with China Could Cripple US Solar Industry

                                   

                                  Learned something from you, today.

                                   

                                  Pick your brain with some market survey questions? 

                                   

                                  1.      Do you think there would be much interest in a combined electric power and hot water solar system?  Yes, it makes better economic sense, especially if the water heater backup element is turned off to avoid time of day pricing.  The solar water heater will probably outperform the PV system in terms of savings in an all electric home, but most of Houston has natural gas.

                                   

                                  2. How about if space heat / cooling (A/C) were part of it? Again, yes, especially if an integrated system offered enhanced savings.  Smart home technology may be the bridge linking all of the technologies together, but the key will be using the right hardware and offering financing so the savings exceed the payments.

                                   

                                  Thanks.

                                   


                                  --- On Mon, 1/16/12, kevin conlin <kevin@...> wrote:


                                  From: kevin conlin <kevin@...>
                                  Subject: RE: [hreg] Trade War with China Could Cripple US Solar Industry
                                  To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                                  Date: Monday, January 16, 2012, 5:27 PM

                                   

                                  Solar thermal water heating is cost effective in Houston when replacing an electric water heater, but it’s a hard sell

                                   

                                  The problem is nobody in Houston gets excited about putting a water heater on their roof

                                   

                                  Energy wise, China produces more solar water heaters than PV panels

                                   

                                  Kevin Conlin

                                  Heliosolar Design Inc

                                  PO Box 1938

                                  Alief, TX 77411

                                  281-202-9629

                                  kevin@...

                                   

                                   

                                   

                                   

                                  From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Andrea Wisner
                                  Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 3:53 PM
                                  To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: Re: [hreg] Trade War with China Could Cripple US Solar Industry

                                   

                                  I'm still wondering is there's a resource out there as to in which markets solar in cost-effective and which it's not. There was another email suggesting it's more cost-effective in Central America. What is the balance for Houston?

                                   

                                  Andrea

                                   

                                  From: ralph parrott <ralph.parrott@...>
                                  To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 2:24 PM
                                  Subject: [hreg] Trade War with China Could Cripple US Solar Industry

                                   

                                   

                                  Friday, January 13, 2012


                                  Miami Herald
                                  by Jigar Shah

                                  Six decades ago, Gen. Omar Bradley warned that expanding the Korean War into China would be "the wrong war, at the wrong place, at the wrong time, with the wrong enemy." Now the same could be said about the trade war that is brewing with China in the solar energy industry.

                                  Cutting off China and threatening U.S. solar jobs started in October when a German company with a manufacturing facility in Oregon filed a trade complaint with the U.S. International Trade Commission and the Department of Commerce demanding that punitive tariffs be imposed on solar panels and cells imported from China. Just before New Year's Day, several U.S. manufacturers filed a similar petition against China and Vietnam seeking special surcharges on wind towers imported from these countries.

                                  Now that the first shots have been fired, there's a growing danger that China will retaliate. Already, China is considering asking the World Trade Organization to investigate alleged unfair practices in U.S. clean energy policies, including programs in Washington, California, New Jersey, Ohio and Massachusetts.

                                  If these frictions ignite a full-scale trade war, our country's casualties could include eliminating many of 100,000-plus good-paying jobs (which have been expected to grow to almost 124,000 at the end of 2012), delaying dozens of solar energy projects, raising prices for consumers, reducing our energy security, and reversing the progress of an industry that is running an all-too-rare trade surplus with the rest of the world, including China.

                                  For all the sound and fury, low prices for solar panels and cells aren't the problem, and protectionism isn't the solution. Several decades of private investment, public support and scientific progress are bearing fruit for a U.S. solar energy industry that now can generate electricity with costs, in some markets, that are competitive with power produced from fossil fuels.

                                  At a time when the growth rate in the entire economy is a sluggish 0.7 percent, the U.S. solar industry, now numbering almost 5,000 companies, is expanding at a rate of 6.8 percent a year. Since 2009, the sector has doubled its workforce, providing more than 100,000 high-skilled, high-wage jobs, including installers, technicians and professionals in scientific research, finance and allied services.

                                   

                                   

                                  Ralph Parrott

                                   

                                  President

                                   

                                  IMPORTANT NOTICE: This transmission (including all attached pages) is intended only for the use of the named address(es), and may contain information that is privileged or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not a named addressee, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distributing or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please destroy all copies and notify us immediately at this telephone number: (713) 595-6375. Thank you!

                                   

                                   

                                   

                                   

                                • mkewert@comcast.net
                                  Jay, The absorption air conditioners you refer to have been around quite a while. They re just not real cost effective in small systems. They can get pretty
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Jan 21, 2012
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Jay,
                                    The absorption air conditioners you refer to have been around quite a while. They're just not real cost effective in small systems. They can get pretty efficient with double and triple effect cycles, but then they get even more expensive.  Yazaki is the leader and uses lithium bromide instead of ammonia.
                                    http://www.yazaki-airconditioning.com/en/airconditioning/history.html

                                    There are a few other thermal driven A/C's that are coming along and may be great for solar in a few years.  One is NREL's DeVap system.
                                    http://www.nrel.gov/news/features/feature_detail.cfm/feature_id=1531?print

                                    Mike


                                    From: "Jay Ring" <public@...>
                                    To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 3:51:59 PM
                                    Subject: [hreg] Re: solar thermal/pv discussion - responding

                                     

                                    One possibility I haven't seen considered is using a absorption cycle refrigerator as an air conditioning unit. These are the ammonia refrigeration that are usually propane powered. You sometimes see on RVs.

                                    They are a little unusual because their input is heat - they use the heat to cool thing. That has always seemed counter-intuitive to me.

                                    The idea is essentially what you describe. Move a large PV load (air conditioning) to a thermal load.

                                    Their main drawback over the compression cycle is their very low efficiency. But a PV powered compressor(currently) also has a very low end-to-end efficiency, so it might work out. I really have no idea.

                                    --- In hreg@yahoogroups.com, Philip Timmons <philiptimmons@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > The solar thermal to electricity -- at least at the small scale -- are new toys.  That was why I was wondering if anyone would like to do or be test sites.

                                    > When looking at the typical overall energy use -- electricity use, as electricity, per se -- not turned into some sort of heat or cool -- like light, TV, PC, maybe a fan or two -- is pretty minor compared to the Thermal component(s) -- like Space Heat and Cooling, or Water Heating, as you noted here.

                                    > So I am figuring it makes better sense to just do a LOT of Thermal (compared to PV), and not make so much electricity.  Which is some bothersome thinking to an EE, let me tell you. :)

                                    > At any rate, with the various Thermal Loads all going away, it only leaves a small amount for the  electricity generation portion of  a system to do.   So I am looking for holes or blind spots in that thinking -- so if anyone sees any problems in it, I am hoping they may speak up.

                                    >
                                    >
                                    > --- On Tue, 1/17/12, kevin conlin <kevin@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > From: kevin conlin <kevin@...>
                                    > Subject: [hreg] solar thermal/pv discussion - responding
                                    > To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                                    > Date: Tuesday, January 17, 2012, 2:15 PM
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >  
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Hi Philip, Slight miscommunication, please see my clarification below………:-)
                                    >  
                                    > Best Regards,
                                    >  
                                    > Kevin
                                    >  
                                    > Kevin Conlin
                                    > Heliosolar Design Inc
                                    > PO Box 1938
                                    > Alief, TX 77411
                                    > 281-202-9629
                                    > kevin@...
                                    >  
                                    >  
                                    >  
                                    >  
                                    >
                                    > From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Philip Timmons
                                    > Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 1:29 PM
                                    > To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                                    > Subject: RE: [hreg] Trade War with China Could Cripple US Solar Industry - responding
                                    >  
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Thanks so much, Kevin.
                                    >
                                    >  
                                    >
                                    > From #1, I think I follow that you were thinking along the line of using PV to make electricity, which would then heat the water.  No, actually I was trying to prevent that at all costs   I was considering separate PV and thermal collectors. It’s been my experience that with a properly sized solar thermal system you can literally turn the backup element off for 9 months a year. It would be very important to do this, otherwise valuable PV power could be used to heat water  You are correct, in some of the TOU plans, while that is extreme, it does actually make sense. 
                                    >
                                    >  
                                    >
                                    > What I was trying to discuss is using Solar Thermal (only, No PV) for generation of both the Hot Water and Electricity.  So thanks for showing me that I need to be very clear on that.
                                    > I’m not sure what technology you’re referring to, can you please elaborate?  I’m not familiar with any residential systems using solar thermal to generate electricity
                                    >
                                    >  
                                    >
                                    > On #2, Money makes the difference.  Agreed. It’s been the key to widespread adoption by CPS in San Antonio, they have an excellent offering thanks to financing by the San Antonio Credit Union
                                    >
                                    >  
                                    >
                                    > Anyone have interest in running some test equipment / sites?
                                    >
                                    >  
                                    >
                                    >  
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > --- On Mon, 1/16/12, kevin conlin <kevin@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > From: kevin conlin <kevin@...>
                                    > Subject: RE: [hreg] Trade War with China Could Cripple US Solar Industry - responding
                                    > To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                                    > Date: Monday, January 16, 2012, 6:18 PM
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >  
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Philip,
                                    >  
                                    > Please see my comments below….
                                    >  
                                    > Best Regards,
                                    >  
                                    > Kevin
                                    >  
                                    > Kevin Conlin
                                    > Heliosolar Design Inc
                                    > PO Box 1938
                                    > Alief, TX 77411
                                    > 281-202-9629
                                    > kevin@...
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                                    >  
                                    >
                                    > From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Philip Timmons
                                    > Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 5:33 PM
                                    > To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                                    > Subject: RE: [hreg] Trade War with China Could Cripple US Solar Industry
                                    >  
                                    >
                                    >
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                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Learned something from you, today.
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                                    >
                                    > Pick your brain with some market survey questions? 
                                    >
                                    >  
                                    >
                                    > 1.      Do you think there would be much interest in a combined electric power and hot water solar system?  Yes, it makes better economic sense, especially if the water heater backup element is turned off to avoid time of day pricing.  The solar water heater will probably outperform the PV system in terms of savings in an all electric home, but most of Houston has natural gas.
                                    >  
                                    >
                                    > 2. How about if space heat / cooling (A/C) were part of it? Again, yes, especially if an integrated system offered enhanced savings.  Smart home technology may be the bridge linking all of the technologies together, but the key will be using the right hardware and offering financing so the savings exceed the payments.
                                    >
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                                    >
                                    > Thanks.
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                                    >  
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > --- On Mon, 1/16/12, kevin conlin <kevin@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > From: kevin conlin <kevin@...>
                                    > Subject: RE: [hreg] Trade War with China Could Cripple US Solar Industry
                                    > To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                                    > Date: Monday, January 16, 2012, 5:27 PM
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                                    >
                                    > Solar thermal water heating is cost effective in Houston when replacing an electric water heater, but it’s a hard sell
                                    >  
                                    > The problem is nobody in Houston gets excited about putting a water heater on their roof
                                    >  
                                    > Energy wise, China produces more solar water heaters than PV panels
                                    >  
                                    >
                                    > Kevin Conlin
                                    > Heliosolar Design Inc
                                    > PO Box 1938
                                    > Alief, TX 77411
                                    > 281-202-9629
                                    > kevin@...
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                                    >  
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                                    >  
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Andrea Wisner
                                    > Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 3:53 PM
                                    > To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                                    > Subject: Re: [hreg] Trade War with China Could Cripple US Solar Industry
                                    >  
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > I'm still wondering is there's a resource out there as to in which markets solar in cost-effective and which it's not. There was another email suggesting it's more cost-effective in Central America. What is the balance for Houston?
                                    >
                                    >  
                                    >
                                    > Andrea
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                                    >
                                    > From: ralph parrott <ralph.parrott@...>
                                    > To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
                                    > Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 2:24 PM
                                    > Subject: [hreg] Trade War with China Could Cripple US Solar Industry
                                    >  
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                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Friday, January 13, 2012
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Miami Herald
                                    > by Jigar Shah
                                    >
                                    > Six decades ago, Gen. Omar Bradley warned that expanding the Korean War into China would be "the wrong war, at the wrong place, at the wrong time, with the wrong enemy." Now the same could be said about the trade war that is brewing with China in the solar energy industry.
                                    >
                                    > Cutting off China and threatening U.S. solar jobs started in October when a German company with a manufacturing facility in Oregon filed a trade complaint with the U.S. International Trade Commission and the Department of Commerce demanding that punitive tariffs be imposed on solar panels and cells imported from China. Just before New Year's Day, several U.S. manufacturers filed a similar petition against China and Vietnam seeking special surcharges on wind towers imported from these countries.
                                    >
                                    > Now that the first shots have been fired, there's a growing danger that China will retaliate. Already, China is considering asking the World Trade Organization to investigate alleged unfair practices in U.S. clean energy policies, including programs in Washington, California, New Jersey, Ohio and Massachusetts.
                                    >
                                    > If these frictions ignite a full-scale trade war, our country's casualties could include eliminating many of 100,000-plus good-paying jobs (which have been expected to grow to almost 124,000 at the end of 2012), delaying dozens of solar energy projects, raising prices for consumers, reducing our energy security, and reversing the progress of an industry that is running an all-too-rare trade surplus with the rest of the world, including China.
                                    >
                                    > For all the sound and fury, low prices for solar panels and cells aren't the problem, and protectionism isn't the solution. Several decades of private investment, public support and scientific progress are bearing fruit for a U.S. solar energy industry that now can generate electricity with costs, in some markets, that are competitive with power produced from fossil fuels.
                                    >
                                    > At a time when the growth rate in the entire economy is a sluggish 0.7 percent, the U.S. solar industry, now numbering almost 5,000 companies, is expanding at a rate of 6.8 percent a year. Since 2009, the sector has doubled its workforce, providing more than 100,000 high-skilled, high-wage jobs, including installers, technicians and professionals in scientific research, finance and allied services.
                                    >
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                                    >  
                                    >
                                    > Ralph Parrott
                                    >
                                    >  
                                    >
                                    > President
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > http://www.txses.org/hreg
                                    >
                                    >  
                                    >
                                    > IMPORTANT NOTICE: This transmission (including all attached pages) is intended only for the use of the named address(es), and may contain information that is privileged or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not a named addressee, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distributing or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please destroy all copies and notify us immediately at this telephone number: (713) 595-6375. Thank you!
                                    >
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