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gas prices

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  • Kim & Garth Travis
    Hi, I have a question. Why are environmental groups and the like looking for a reduction in gas prices? I have seen this several places and I am curious. I
    Message 1 of 5 , May 16, 2001
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      Hi,
      I have a question. Why are environmental groups and the like looking
      for a reduction in gas prices? I have seen this several places and I am
      curious. I cheer when the prices go up. The only way to make most
      people to think about the fuel they are wasting is to hit them in the
      pocket book. If we make it a choice, eat or drive your SUV, maybe we
      can get rid of them.

      Kim
    • Greg Carrier
      I agree. If you want renewables, let petroleum prices rise. If you don t want additional drilling, let petroleum prices rise. If you want to complain about
      Message 2 of 5 , May 20, 2001
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        I agree. If you want renewables, let petroleum prices rise. If you
        don't want additional drilling, let petroleum prices rise. If you
        want to complain about high petroleum prices, then tap more oil. Too
        many people want to have their cake and eat it too. They just don't
        have the guts to make hard choices. Instead, they prefer to make
        choices for other people, or complain about others while doing
        nothing themselves.

        -Greg



        --- In hreg@y..., Kim & Garth Travis <gartht@t...> wrote:
        > Hi,
        > I have a question. Why are environmental groups and the like
        looking
        > for a reduction in gas prices? I have seen this several places and
        I am
        > curious. I cheer when the prices go up. The only way to make most
        > people to think about the fuel they are wasting is to hit them in
        the
        > pocket book. If we make it a choice, eat or drive your SUV, maybe
        we
        > can get rid of them.
        >
        > Kim
      • William M. Bell, Jr.
        ... From: Greg Carrier To: Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2001 9:22 AM Subject: [hreg] Re: gas prices ... I think
        Message 3 of 5 , May 21, 2001
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          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Greg Carrier <gcarrier@...>
          To: <hreg@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2001 9:22 AM
          Subject: [hreg] Re: gas prices


          > If you
          > don't want additional drilling, let petroleum prices rise.
          >

          I think that something is wrong with your logic. Higher oil prices mean more
          drilling and more production. The good news is that there are many existing
          fields that were marginally profitable because of low oil prices, but higher
          prices should result in more production from these fields. I don't know if
          this is enough to make a difference in the demand for new sources, however.
          Higher prices mean that PV, wind and oil producers are all in a better
          position to produce more product.
        • Greg Carrier
          I am sorry that you chose to attack my logic as opposed to arguing a complex issue (supply/demand). My statement quoted refers to the fact that higher prices
          Message 4 of 5 , May 30, 2001
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            I am sorry that you chose to attack my logic as opposed to arguing a
            complex issue (supply/demand). My statement quoted refers to the
            fact that higher prices will deter usage. That happens far faster
            than companies can react with higher investments into creating new
            supply, which will then show the producers a lower consumption number
            than the "spike."

            Appliance and electronic producers pay little mind to making energy-
            efficient products because the average consumer doesn't care about
            that. Again, something that rising prices can aid. Personally, I
            prefer free enterprise solutions like that over increased
            governmental regulations.

            Let consumers vote with their own dollars.

            -Greg



            --- In hreg@y..., "William M. Bell, Jr." <wmb@i...> wrote:
            >
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: Greg Carrier <gcarrier@a...>
            > To: <hreg@y...>
            > Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2001 9:22 AM
            > Subject: [hreg] Re: gas prices
            >
            >
            > > If you
            > > don't want additional drilling, let petroleum prices rise.
            > >
            >
            > I think that something is wrong with your logic. Higher oil prices
            mean more
            > drilling and more production. The good news is that there are many
            existing
            > fields that were marginally profitable because of low oil prices,
            but higher
            > prices should result in more production from these fields. I don't
            know if
            > this is enough to make a difference in the demand for new sources,
            however.
            > Higher prices mean that PV, wind and oil producers are all in a
            better
            > position to produce more product.
          • Robert Johnston
            For what it s worth, as a semi-objective outside observer to your discussion, I think you and William Bell both bring out good points, and I don t think that
            Message 5 of 5 , May 30, 2001
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              For what it's worth, as a semi-objective outside observer to your
              discussion, I think you and William Bell both bring out good points,
              and I don't think that they are necessarily contradictory. How about
              looking for common ground/understanding? I didn't read his comments
              about your logic as an attack at all.

              You are correct that higher prices discourage consumption. At the
              same time, he is correct that higher prices encourage more production.
              This is basic Economics 101, isn't it? (I have to ask, since I never
              took the course)! Thus, I think you are right that higher prices are
              good for the environment, while he is correct that they also encourage
              more drilling and oil production.

              In a free market with no price regulation or government intervention,
              the supply and demand will be in balance, but with volatility due to
              fluctuations in supply and demand over time. Given the reality that
              oil and gas are declining assets, then over time (though perhaps still
              quite a long time), the mean price around which prices fluctuate will
              rise. Because of this, you will both be right. That is, allowing the
              price to rise now will encourage more production, but the mean price
              will not return to the original price since the supply/demand balance
              will be met at increasing prices due to the limited supply longterm.

              The rub is that the time for the supply to become limited enough to
              substantially discourage consumption of so important and basic a commodity
              as energy is likely to be a long time. After all, energy leads to so
              much wealth creation that the increased cost is often considered
              "worth it" and people accept the higher prices. However, over time,
              this effect will be felt, and as William points out, higher prices
              will encourage not only more drilling and oil production, but also
              increased utilization of renewable energy sources.

              Robert Johnston

              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: Greg Carrier [mailto:gcarrier@...]
              > Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 6:29 PM
              > To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: [hreg] Re: gas prices
              >
              >
              > I am sorry that you chose to attack my logic as opposed to arguing a
              > complex issue (supply/demand). My statement quoted refers to the
              > fact that higher prices will deter usage. That happens far faster
              > than companies can react with higher investments into creating new
              > supply, which will then show the producers a lower consumption number
              > than the "spike."
              >
              > Appliance and electronic producers pay little mind to making energy-
              > efficient products because the average consumer doesn't care about
              > that. Again, something that rising prices can aid. Personally, I
              > prefer free enterprise solutions like that over increased
              > governmental regulations.
              >
              > Let consumers vote with their own dollars.
              >
              > -Greg
              >
              >
              >
              > --- In hreg@y..., "William M. Bell, Jr." <wmb@i...> wrote:
              > >
              > > ----- Original Message -----
              > > From: Greg Carrier <gcarrier@a...>
              > > To: <hreg@y...>
              > > Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2001 9:22 AM
              > > Subject: [hreg] Re: gas prices
              > >
              > >
              > > > If you
              > > > don't want additional drilling, let petroleum prices rise.
              > > >
              > >
              > > I think that something is wrong with your logic. Higher oil prices
              > mean more
              > > drilling and more production. The good news is that there are many
              > existing
              > > fields that were marginally profitable because of low oil prices,
              > but higher
              > > prices should result in more production from these fields. I don't
              > know if
              > > this is enough to make a difference in the demand for new sources,
              > however.
              > > Higher prices mean that PV, wind and oil producers are all in a
              > better
              > > position to produce more product.
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
              http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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