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Re: [hreg] Digest Number 2580

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  • Stephanie Edwards-Musa
    When I was considering buying a solar attic fan my roofer quoted $75 to install. I ll try to find his contact information if anyone is interested. Stephanie
    Message 1 of 3 , Sep 12 8:51 AM
      When I was considering buying a solar attic fan my roofer quoted $75 to install.  I'll try to find his contact information if anyone is interested.


      Stephanie Edwards-Musa
      Realtor, Certified EcoBroker
      Mobile:  281-635-9444
      Prudential Gary Greene, Realtors
      www.TurningHoustonGreen.com
      Steph@...


      On Sun, Sep 12, 2010 at 8:26 AM, Amanda Tullos <atullos@...> wrote:
       

      I just installed 2 solar powered attic fans. $250 each from Home Depot and $300 to install. Total $800. Quick, easy, done. 
       
      My larger problem was that my neighbor trimmed his tree, which shaded my roof for most of day day. After that my "right sized" AC (3 tons for an 1,100 sf house built in the 50's) would not cut it in this extra hot summer we are having. We had to buy 2 half ton window units for the rooms that were most affected.
       
      Anyone know of someone that does duct pressure testing and balancing for houses? I have new duct work, all metal, but also needs adjustment.
       
      Best,
      Amanda Tullos


      From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com]
      Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2010 9:57 AM
      To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [hreg] Digest Number 2580

      Messages In This Digest (3 Messages)

      1.1.
      Re: Advice for new roof From: Philip Timmons
      1.2.
      Re: Advice for new roof From: Kevin Conlin
      1.3.
      Re: Advice for new roof From: Solar Energy

      Messages

      1.1.

      Re: Advice for new roof

      Posted by: "Philip Timmons" philiptimmons@...   philiptimmons

      Sat Sep 11, 2010 9:59 am (PDT)



      If you are willing to take the ducts out of the attic (a very good idea, btw) the trend along that path is to get rid of ducts completely and just put small evaporator coils and small blowers in each room you wish to cool.  System still uses the single large compressor/condenser outside, but no longer needs the big blower and ducts in the attic.

      ==============

      as a side note did any mention that not only do alternating current electric fans in attics not only cause fires, but are rumored to attract tornadoes, lightning, vampires bats and werewolves?

        :D :D :D 

      Sorry . . .  just could not resist.

       

      --- On Fri, 9/10/10, William & Cynthia Stange <stangfam@...> wrote:

      From: William & Cynthia Stange <stangfam@...>
      Subject: Re: [hreg] Advice for new roof
      To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Friday, September 10, 2010, 8:50 PM

       

      Hello all,                   Been lurking here again for awhile. Thought you may want to look at this site. I had it bookmarked a long time ago and it took me some time to find it again. 
      http://www.buildingscience.com/doctypes/designs-that-workThe "designs that work" section is what most interested me. Homes built in hot-humid climates has an unbelievable design, quite against what you would see here in Houston as normal. I had an architect tell me today that there was nothing wrong with having a black asphalt roof here in Houston. Hmmm. Personally I am of the mind to remove the AC ducting from the attic AND furnace, run them
      through soffits built/incorporated into the ceiling of the home. That way you take advantage of your own insulation and keeping the AC equip. working at a minimum. I also believe it is time to take advantage of using a white roof. Take a look see what you all think? There is truth in finding someone who has done all the work. Unfortunately our old homes do not lend themselves to this kind of upgrade without a tremendous amount of hard-earned, economy-starved $$'s. I still think strawbale is one way to go, insulation and mass, excellent windows and a roof that limits radiation/heat from entering, however that is best achieved. My folks home from the fifties had crushed rock/gravel with a very light color, it was beautiful and quite painful when a huge storm blew through! :) Appreciate all your info. here as usual, you are all unique and empowering. Keep it up!!

      Bill Stange
      From: Robert Johnston <junk1@...>
      To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Fri, September 10, 2010 8:02:10 PM
      Subject: RE: [hreg] Advice for new roof

       

      I’ve appreciated all the advice/comments on attic
      venting.  Here is an article I found that gives some arguments against
      solar attic fans:

      http://www.askthebuilder.com/676_Solar_Powered_Attic_Fan.shtml

       

      Frankly, it doesn’t sound too hopeful for ANY kind of fan
      or vent since nothing is going to move the 1000’s of CFM he talks about
      as needed, unless you put in a ton of fans or else some real monster fans. 
      I can’t imagine ridge vents doing it either.

       

      And a third of the way down this page there are links to
      government studies showing no energy savings with attic fans:

      http://forum.doityourself.com/archive/index.php/t-101501.html

       

      There are also negatives given for ridge vents, in terms of rain
      infiltration and low effectiveness (though some say otherwise too—it is
      all very confusing and contradictory!).

       

      So, still appreciate any input you may have, especially data-based.

       

      Robert

       

       

       

      From:
      hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of apallegraa@...

      Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 12:42 PM

      To: hreg@yahoogroups.com

      Subject: Re: [hreg] Advice for new roof

       

       

      Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

      From: Ron Foster <toronfoster@...>

      Sender: hreg@yahoogroups.com

      Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2010 11:05:33 -0600

      To: <hreg@yahoogroups.com>

      ReplyTo: hreg@yahoogroups.com

      Subject: Re: [hreg] Advice for new roof

       

       

      I have had at least three dealers to report
      actually seeing AC fans catch fire. To date, there has never been an incidence
      of solar fans catching fire, unless the house catches fire, of course.

      You've had some good luck with yours, but no one should consider one of these
      fire-traps for their roof when a good solar fan is available.

      Sorry about the discourse, and good luck.

      On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 7:32 AM, Gary Beck <eco@...> wrote:

       

      You were implying
      that AC fans catch fire and because of that a solar was better with regard to
      fires. So I wanted to see where 'no fires' was in the solar fan's warranty.

      Fans do not
      catch on fire, motors rarely, faulty wiring often. A correctly sized shorted
      wire should trip a breaker before any fire starts.

      I have had a
      thermostat controlled AC fan running in my garage for 15 years (set at 100F).
      So far so good but I am keeping my fingers crossed.

       

      From: hreg@yahoogroups.com
      [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com]
      On Behalf Of Ron Foster

      Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 8:00 AM

      To: hreg@yahoogroups.com

      Subject: Re: [hreg] Advice for new roof

       

       

      Solar fans do not get hot. They just don't. Please
      cite instances where solar fans catch fire? 

      On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 8:10 AM, Gary Beck <eco@...>
      wrote:

       

      PS: The balance
      starts sounding like a sale pitch, which if it is I have no problem with
      -  except for the negative selling part .

      The negative
      selling features of "Noisy" (in an insulated attic?), "Excess
      humidity" (How does a solar fan pull in less humidity in the morning into
      a night time cooled attic than an AC fan?) and "fire" from an AC
      motor (what about my AC blower in the attic that turn on and off all day every
      day?) and "A solar fan will not catch on fire" (is that in the
      warranty?).

      If anyone wants
      to sell these things just stick with facts and the many positive aspects - easy
      fo installation, no wiring, and the perceived greeness, and drop the negative
      stuff.

       

       

      From: hreg@yahoogroups.com
      [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com]
      On Behalf Of Ron Foster

      Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 8:20 AM

      To: hreg@yahoogroups.com

      Subject: Re: [hreg] Advice for new roof

       

       

      I don't know where you're getting your information,
      but it may be old.

      A Breezemaster works quite well on a cloudy day, even in the rain. It reaches
      peak performance in direct sunshine, which is when it is needed most. What you
      want is for a fan to start pulling hot air out of an attic at first light. In
      this way, by the time it gets really hot, most of the hot air has been drawn
      out.

      Note: We did several tests on attics with new Breezemasters. We used a
      recording thermometer to see maximum temperatures drop from around 145 degrees
      to 101 and 105 - this on days when outside temps reached 95 degrees.

      B. AC fans do not cost that much less. They are known to catch fire, btw,
      something a solar fan will not do.  By the time you both install and AC
      fan and use an electrician to connect it, the cost is much more than the true
      out-of-pocket cost of a solar fan. The thing to remember also is that AC fans
      seldom last more than a few years, while good solar fans last for decades,
      making AC fans much, much more expensive. They are also very often quite noisy,
      while solar fans are quiet.

      D. Excess humidity is a huge problem for attics with no ventilation. As far as
      we've been able to determine, ventilation is the only way to get moisture out
      of an attic. And as you all know, heat and moisture are the two biggest
      problems for equipment.

      There really is no comparison, actually. Ask your insurance agent about fires
      that result from AC fans. Ask someone who has used them how long they last.
      Better still, ask Breezemaster customers if they're ready to go back to an AC
      fan.

      On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 7:46 PM, Robert Johnston <junk1@...>
      wrote:

       

      Thanks for your
      comments (and to the rest of you too!).

       

      Q. 
      I’ve been reading online and there are lots of different points of view
      on this question.  A few points I’ve read that I’d appreciate
      your comments on:

      (a)  Solar
      fans don’t work well on cloudy days and don’t work at night.

      (b)  Solar
      fans only pull the rated CFM when in full sun at the peak of the solar day.

      (c )  A/C
      powered fans cost much less and pull more air.  A/C fans use more
      electricity than they save in cooling cost.  But solar fans have a payback
      time of >20 years.

      (d)  excess
      humidity can be a problem if you get too much venting

      Your reaction?

       

      How do you
      determine if 1 fan is enough, or if 2 should be used?  House is
      “C” shaped (square off the corners), single story, 2550
      s.f.  

      Do the fans work
      better on the roof than gables?  I had gable fans but didn’t feel
      like they did much.

       

      Thanks,

      Robert

       

       

      From: hreg@yahoogroups.com
      [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com]
      On Behalf Of Ron Foster

      Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2010 5:28 PM

      To: hreg@yahoogroups.com

      Subject: Re: [hreg] Advice for new roof

       

       

      I don't think you want a home to be 104 degrees,
      Tai-Lyn, nor do you want Houston's high moisture in your home. No, the fans are
      made to keep attic temperatures reasonably low, such as a few degrees above a
      hundred on a hot day. Just contact Breezemaster through the website www.breezemaster.net

      The benefits are quite amazing, and at a cost often at about half of radiant
      barrier. And btw, I talked to a roofer today who said that a ridge vent will
      not pull out enough air to blow out a match. They are pitiful, but actually
      very expensive.

      Lowering attic temperatures 25-30% actually takes about a third the workload
      off the HVAC. This saves both utility dollars and possibly an expensive
      compressor.

      Attic-based equipment should operate at no more than 117 degrees, so by
      allowing temperatures to push 140-160 is one reason the equipment doesn't last
      that long. Huge expense saved.

      Home temperature comes down - usually at least two degrees right away. The
      upstairs becomes much more comfortable. 

      All solar-based attic fans qualify for a 30% tax credit. Note this is NOT an
      energy credit and does NOT interfere with AC or other credits. Solar is in a
      class by itself in which there is no upper limit.

      On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 5:03 PM, Tai-Lin Hong <tailinux@...>
      wrote:

       

      Ron,

       


        If
      the solar attic fans can reduce the attic temperature 35-45 degrees, do I
      still need air conditioners for the rest part of the house? 


        I
      also hate the fussy insolation foams, can I do away with it?


        Where
      can I get these solar attic fans?


       


      Thanks,
      Tai-Lin Hong

      --- On Tue, 9/7/10, Ron Foster <toronfoster@...>
      wrote:


      From: Ron Foster <toronfoster@...>



      Subject: Re: [hreg] Advice for new roof

      To: hreg@yahoogroups.com

      Date:
      Tuesday, September 7, 2010, 9:59 AM

       




      That still sounds pretty hot to me. Did you measure the temp? Also, how
      much did the ridge vents cost? One good solar attic fan cost less than $800
      after tax credit and will reduce attic temp as much as 45 degrees, though
      usually around 35 degrees. Also, ridge vents do virtually nothing to address
      high moisture.

      On
      Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 9:50 AM, Scarsella, Thomas M. (JSC-IS4)[TESSADA &
      ASSOC INC] <Thomas.m.scarsella@...> wrote:

       





      We had continuous ridge
      venting installed when we had our roof replaced a decade ago and the attic is
      now much cooler than it was beforehand.  We had a large electric fan
      that would run for long periods and the attic was still too hot to tolerate
      for more than a few minutes.  We have always had vented soffits.  There
      is also a large slatted air intake in the exterior wall below one of the roof
      peaks for air flow.  I believe that vent is what enables the ridge
      venting to work as well as it does so I’d say the ridge venting will
      work fine in Houston if you have enough air intake.
       
      Since getting the ridge
      venting  we have been able to work in the attic long enough to put some
      decking down to reinforce the rafters, add hurricane straps, and make some
      other small improvements and repairs.
       
      Tom S.


      From: hreg@yahoogroups.com
      [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com]
      On Behalf Of Garth & Kim Travis

      Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 5:33 PM

      To: hreg@yahoogroups.com




      Subject: Re: [hreg] Advice for new roof






       
       



      Greetings,

      I did apply foil to the underside of a roof once. It really helped. It

      took a while to finish the job so I was able to test the idea. The

      first side finished was 10 to 15 degrees F cooler, just under the roof.

      Measuring air temp. It was just ordinary cooking foil put up with an

      office stapler.

      Bright Blessings,

      Garth & Kim Travis

      www.TheRoseColoredForest.com

      Bedias, Texas

      936-395-0110

      On 9/5/2010 5:29 PM, Andrea Wisner wrote:

      >

      >

      > Thank you for posting the link to your presentation with Mr. Strong! I

      > enjoyed it and now feel better educated.

      > I am still thinking about painting with reflective coating our actual

      > asphalt shingles, which were in the process of being installed (by the

      > bank) when we first saw the house before we bought it, and which I doubt

      > even have a warranty. I'm sure they used the cheapest stuff possible -

      > only a year later gravel from the shingles is filling our gutters and

      > water-collection system. I read that there's an acrylic coating to go on

      > top of the reflective coating which will help keep it cleaner and help

      > it last longer.

      > So far I've heard this all can be done, and that it's a good idea, but

      > yet I've never heard any actual experiences of applying this stuff to a

      > pitched asphalt-shingle roof. I've even emailed the reflective coatings

      > council, and member companies, a couple times, but they never respond. I

      > guess they're not interested in pitching their product. I'm trying to

      > figure out a faux-painting technique that will help it actually look

      > good, as opposed to a solid sheet of white.

      > Once I've actually done this, I'll post on the results.

      > I've thought of applying foil on top of the roof too. Not sure how long

      > it would last!

      > AW

      >

      > --- On *Sun, 9/5/10, Stephanie Edwards-Musa

      > /<steph@...>/* wrote:

      >

      >

      > From: Stephanie Edwards-Musa <steph@...>

      > Subject: Re: [hreg] Advice for new roof

      > To: hreg@yahoogroups.com

      > Date: Sunday, September 5, 2010, 5:50 PM

      >

      > i have not seen anything regarding how it affects the house

      > efficiency but I have read a couple studies of how reflective roofs

      > can dry out neighboring wood and brick because of reflective heat.

      > thought that was quite interesting.

      >

      >

      > Stephanie Edwards-Musa

      > Realtor, Certified EcoBroker

      > Mobile: 281-635-9444

      > Prudential Gary Greene, Realtors

      > www.TurningHoustonGreen.com
      <http://www.turninghoustongreen.com/>

      > Steph@...

      >

      >

      > On Sun, Sep 5, 2010 at 2:45 PM, Philip Timmons

      > <philiptimmons@...

      > <http://us.mc532.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=philiptimmons@...>>

      > wrote:

      >

      > Great video!

      >

      > Thanks.

      >

      > A lot of good information in this thread.

      >

      > Anyone know the radiant barrier results from putting a mirror

      > surface on or as a roof?

      >

      > Am thinking about that as a solar concentrator method, and it

      > seems like it would put the entire house "in the shade."

      >

      > Any thoughts regarding the radiant barrier aspects of this

      > approach? Have seen no studies along these lines, and am

      > planning on building some side-by-side small box-house type to

      > compare the mirrors to other methods.

      >

      >

      >

      > --- On *Sun, 9/5/10, Stephanie Edwards-Musa

      > /<steph@...

      > <http://us.mc532.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=steph@...>>/*

      > wrote:

      >

      >

      > From: Stephanie Edwards-Musa <steph@...

      > <http://us.mc532.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=steph@...>>

      >

      >

      > Subject: Re: [hreg] Advice for new roof

      > To: hreg@yahoogroups.com

      > <http://us.mc532.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=hreg@yahoogroups.com>

      > Date: Sunday, September 5, 2010, 3:29 PM

      >

      >

      > Robert,

      >

      > Here is a webinar that I did a couple years ago that

      > discusses options for radiant barrier. It's about an hour

      > long so you may want to fast forward to the radiant barrier

      > part of it.

      >

      > The kind you tack on to the underside are generally not as

      > effective because they get ripped or torn and require

      > ventilation between the sheet and decking in order to work

      > properly.

      >

      > http://blip.tv/file/1905334

      >

      > Stephanie Edwards-Musa

      > Realtor, Certified EcoBroker

      > Mobile: 281-635-9444

      > Prudential Gary Greene, Realtors

      > www.TurningHoustonGreen.com

      > <http://www.turninghoustongreen.com/>

      > Steph@...

      >

      >

      > On Sun, Sep 5, 2010 at 1:13 PM, Eileen Nehiley

      > <enehiley@...

      > <http://mc/compose?to=enehiley@...>>
      wrote:

      >

      > Radiant barrier: I have read that these are not

      > practical in Houston due to the humidity. Do you have

      > information to clear up the often contradictory

      > information on this?

      > I have a continuous ridge vent, large screened gable

      > vents at both side ends of house & equally spaced soffit

      > vents all around. House is 2 story.

      > The garage has circular roof vents.

      >

      > Eileen

      >

      > On Sep 5, 2010, at 3:05 PM, Kevin Conlin wrote:

      >

      >>

      >> From a practical standpoint, most builders simply vent

      >> the entire ridge and all the soffits.

      >> You didn’t mention if you had soffit vents, but the

      >> effectiveness of any ventilation scheme is dependent

      >> on bringing in cool replacement air from below.

      >> The best solution is continuous ridge and soffit

      >> ventilation, with a radiant barrier tacked to the

      >> underside of the roof joists.

      >> Best Regards, Kevin

      >> Kevin Conlin

      >> Heliosolar Design, Inc.

      >> 13534 Quetzal Lane

      >> Houston, TX 77083

      >> Cell: 281-202-9629

      >> Fax: 281-530-7501

      >> kevin@...

      >> <http://mc/compose?to=kevin@...>

      >> ----------------------------------------------------------

      >> *From:* hreg@yahoogroups.com

      >> <http://mc/compose?to=hreg@yahoogroups.com>

      >> [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com

      >> <http://mc/compose?to=hreg@yahoogroups.com>] *On

      >> Behalf Of *Robert Johnston

      >> *Sent:* Sunday, September 05, 2010 2:45 PM

      >> *To:* hreg@yahoogroups.com

      >> <http://mc/compose?to=hreg@yahoogroups.com>

      >> *Subject:* RE: [hreg] Advice for new roof

      >> Thanks. How will I know they calculated it properly?

      >> Robert

      >> *From:* hreg@yahoogroups.com

      >> <http://mc/compose?to=hreg@yahoogroups.com>

      >> [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com

      >> <http://mc/compose?to=hreg@yahoogroups.com>] *On

      >> Behalf Of *Stephanie Edwards-Musa

      >> *Sent:* Sunday, September 05, 2010 2:00 PM

      >> *To:* hreg@yahoogroups.com

      >> <http://mc/compose?to=hreg@yahoogroups.com>

      >> *Subject:* Re: [hreg] Advice for new roof

      >> Hi Robert,

      >>

      >> Just make sure that they calculate the air flow

      >> properly. You can do ridge/hip vents but there has to

      >> be enough intake as well. Solar Attic fans are become

      >> quite inexpensive as well but again, venting needs to

      >> be accurate.

      >>

      >> Stephanie Edwards-Musa

      >> Realtor, Certified EcoBroker

      >> Mobile: 281-635-9444

      >> Prudential Gary Greene, Realtors

      >> www.TurningHoustonGreen.com

      >> <http://www.turninghoustongreen.com/>

      >> Steph@...

      >> <http://mc/compose?to=Steph@...>

      >>

      >>

      >> On Sun, Sep 5, 2010 at 11:34 AM, Robert Johnston

      >> <junk1@...

      >> <http://mc/compose?to=junk1@...>>
      wrote:

      >> Any advice for a new roof? I’m replacing a

      >> hail-damaged roof (30 yr asphalt shingles) on my 2500

      >> sf single story ranch style home. The home has no

      >> attic venting (there were two power fans at the gable

      >> ends but they quit working long ago). I am thinking of

      >> going in with ridge vents and another covering of 30

      >> yr shingles, but would welcome any advice or ideas you

      >> may have that would increase energy efficiency.

      >> Robert Johnston

      >>_

      >>

      >

      >

      >

      >

      >

      >













      --


      Ron Foster – President

      Solar Panels of America LLC

      281-866-5001 Fax: 832-203-1455

      www.solarpanelsofamerica.com








      --

      Ron Foster – President

      Solar Panels of America LLC

      281-866-5001 Fax: 832-203-1455

      www.solarpanelsofamerica.com


      --

      Ron Foster – President

      Solar Panels of America LLC

      281-866-5001 Fax: 832-203-1455

      www.solarpanelsofamerica.com


      --

      Ron Foster – President

      Solar Panels of America LLC

      281-866-5001 Fax: 832-203-1455

      www.solarpanelsofamerica.com


      --

      Ron Foster – President

      Solar Panels of America LLC

      281-866-5001 Fax: 832-203-1455

      www.solarpanelsofamerica.com

      1.2.

      Re: Advice for new roof

      Posted by: "Kevin Conlin" kevin@...

      Sat Sep 11, 2010 11:10 am (PDT)



      Well said, Philip!

      Kevin Conlin
      Heliosolar Design, Inc.
      13534 Quetzal Lane
      Houston, TX 77083
      Cell: 281-202-9629
      Fax: 281-530-7501
      kevin@...

      _____

      From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Philip
      Timmons
      Sent: Saturday, September 11, 2010 12:00 PM
      To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [hreg] Advice for new roof

      If you are willing to take the ducts out of the attic (a very good idea,
      btw) the trend along that path is to get rid of ducts completely and just
      put small evaporator coils and small blowers in each room you wish to cool.
      System still uses the single large compressor/condenser outside, but no
      longer needs the big blower and ducts in the attic.

      ==============

      as a side note did any mention that not only do alternating current electric
      fans in attics not only cause fires, but are rumored to attract tornadoes,
      lightning, vampires bats and werewolves?

      :D :D :D

      Sorry . . . just could not resist.

      --- On Fri, 9/10/10, William & Cynthia Stange <stangfam@...> wrote:

      From: William & Cynthia Stange <stangfam@...>
      Subject: Re: [hreg] Advice for new roof
      To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Friday, September 10, 2010, 8:50 PM

      Hello all,

      Been lurking here again for awhile. Thought you may want
      to look at this site. I had it bookmarked a long time ago and it took me
      some time to find it again.

      http://www.buildingscience.com/doctypes/designs-that-work

      The "designs that work" section is what most interested me. Homes built in
      hot-humid climates has an unbelievable design, quite against what you would
      see here in Houston as normal. I had an architect tell me today that there
      was nothing wrong with having a black asphalt roof here in Houston. Hmmm.
      Personally I am of the mind to remove the AC ducting from the attic AND
      furnace, run them through soffits built/incorporated into the ceiling of the
      home. That way you take advantage of your own insulation and keeping the AC
      equip. working at a minimum. I also believe it is time to take advantage of
      using a white roof. Take a look see what you all think? There is truth in
      finding someone who has done all the work. Unfortunately our old homes do
      not lend themselves to this kind of upgrade without a tremendous amount of
      hard-earned, economy-starved $$'s. I still think strawbale is one way to go,
      insulation and mass, excellent windows and a roof that limits radiation/heat
      from entering, however that is best achieved. My folks home from the fifties
      had crushed rock/gravel with a very light color, it was beautiful and quite
      painful when a huge storm blew through! :) Appreciate all your info. here as
      usual, you are all unique and empowering. Keep it up!!

      Bill Stange

      _____

      From: Robert Johnston <junk1@...>
      To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Fri, September 10, 2010 8:02:10 PM
      Subject: RE: [hreg] Advice for new roof

      I've appreciated all the advice/comments on attic venting. Here is an
      article I found that gives some arguments against solar attic fans:

      http://www.askthebuilder.com/676_Solar_Powered_Attic_Fan.shtml

      Frankly, it doesn't sound too hopeful for ANY kind of fan or vent since
      nothing is going to move the 1000's of CFM he talks about as needed, unless
      you put in a ton of fans or else some real monster fans. I can't imagine
      ridge vents doing it either.

      And a third of the way down this page there are links to government studies
      showing no energy savings with attic fans:

      http://forum.doityourself.com/archive/index.php/t-101501.html

      There are also negatives given for ridge vents, in terms of rain
      infiltration and low effectiveness (though some say otherwise too-it is all
      very confusing and contradictory!).

      So, still appreciate any input you may have, especially data-based.

      Robert

      From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
      apallegraa@...
      Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 12:42 PM
      To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [hreg] Advice for new roof

      Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

      _____

      From: Ron Foster <toronfoster@...>

      Sender: hreg@yahoogroups.com

      Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2010 11:05:33 -0600

      To: <hreg@yahoogroups.com>

      ReplyTo: hreg@yahoogroups.com

      Subject: Re: [hreg] Advice for new roof

      I have had at least three dealers to report actually seeing AC fans catch
      fire. To date, there has never been an incidence of solar fans catching
      fire, unless the house catches fire, of course.

      You've had some good luck with yours, but no one should consider one of
      these fire-traps for their roof when a good solar fan is available.

      Sorry about the discourse, and good luck.

      On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 7:32 AM, Gary Beck <eco@...> wrote:

      You were implying that AC fans catch fire and because of that a solar was
      better with regard to fires. So I wanted to see where 'no fires' was in the
      solar fan's warranty.

      Fans do not catch on fire, motors rarely, faulty wiring often. A correctly
      sized shorted wire should trip a breaker before any fire starts.

      I have had a thermostat controlled AC fan running in my garage for 15 years
      (set at 100F). So far so good but I am keeping my fingers crossed.

      From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ron
      Foster
      Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 8:00 AM

      To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [hreg] Advice for new roof

      Solar fans do not get hot. They just don't. Please cite instances where
      solar fans catch fire?

      On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 8:10 AM, Gary Beck <eco@...> wrote:

      PS: The balance starts sounding like a sale pitch, which if it is I have no
      problem with - except for the negative selling part .

      The negative selling features of "Noisy" (in an insulated attic?), "Excess
      humidity" (How does a solar fan pull in less humidity in the morning into a
      night time cooled attic than an AC fan?) and "fire" from an AC motor (what
      about my AC blower in the attic that turn on and off all day every day?) and
      "A solar fan will not catch on fire" (is that in the warranty?).

      If anyone wants to sell these things just stick with facts and the many
      positive aspects - easy fo installation, no wiring, and the perceived
      greeness, and drop the negative stuff.

      From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ron
      Foster

      Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 8:20 AM

      To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [hreg] Advice for new roof

      I don't know where you're getting your information, but it may be old.
      A Breezemaster works quite well on a cloudy day, even in the rain. It
      reaches peak performance in direct sunshine, which is when it is needed
      most. What you want is for a fan to start pulling hot air out of an attic at
      first light. In this way, by the time it gets really hot, most of the hot
      air has been drawn out.
      Note: We did several tests on attics with new Breezemasters. We used a
      recording thermometer to see maximum temperatures drop from around 145
      degrees to 101 and 105 - this on days when outside temps reached 95 degrees.

      B. AC fans do not cost that much less. They are known to catch fire, btw,
      something a solar fan will not do. By the time you both install and AC fan
      and use an electrician to connect it, the cost is much more than the true
      out-of-pocket cost of a solar fan. The thing to remember also is that AC
      fans seldom last more than a few years, while good solar fans last for
      decades, making AC fans much, much more expensive. They are also very often
      quite noisy, while solar fans are quiet.
      D. Excess humidity is a huge problem for attics with no ventilation. As far
      as we've been able to determine, ventilation is the only way to get moisture
      out of an attic. And as you all know, heat and moisture are the two biggest
      problems for equipment.

      There really is no comparison, actually. Ask your insurance agent about
      fires that result from AC fans. Ask someone who has used them how long they
      last. Better still, ask Breezemaster customers if they're ready to go back
      to an AC fan.

      On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 7:46 PM, Robert Johnston <junk1@...>
      wrote:

      Thanks for your comments (and to the rest of you too!).

      Q. I've been reading online and there are lots of different points of view
      on this question. A few points I've read that I'd appreciate your comments
      on:

      (a) Solar fans don't work well on cloudy days and don't work at night.

      (b) Solar fans only pull the rated CFM when in full sun at the peak of the
      solar day.

      (c ) A/C powered fans cost much less and pull more air. A/C fans use more
      electricity than they save in cooling cost. But solar fans have a payback
      time of >20 years.

      (d) excess humidity can be a problem if you get too much venting

      Your reaction?

      How do you determine if 1 fan is enough, or if 2 should be used? House is
      "C" shaped (square off the corners), single story, 2550 s.f.

      Do the fans work better on the roof than gables? I had gable fans but
      didn't feel like they did much.

      Thanks,

      Robert

      From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ron
      Foster
      Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2010 5:28 PM

      To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [hreg] Advice for new roof

      I don't think you want a home to be 104 degrees, Tai-Lyn, nor do you want
      Houston's high moisture in your home. No, the fans are made to keep attic
      temperatures reasonably low, such as a few degrees above a hundred on a hot
      day. Just contact Breezemaster through the website www.breezemaster.net
      The benefits are quite amazing, and at a cost often at about half of radiant
      barrier. And btw, I talked to a roofer today who said that a ridge vent will
      not pull out enough air to blow out a match. They are pitiful, but actually
      very expensive.
      Lowering attic temperatures 25-30% actually takes about a third the workload
      off the HVAC. This saves both utility dollars and possibly an expensive
      compressor.
      Attic-based equipment should operate at no more than 117 degrees, so by
      allowing temperatures to push 140-160 is one reason the equipment doesn't
      last that long. Huge expense saved.
      Home temperature comes down - usually at least two degrees right away. The
      upstairs becomes much more comfortable.
      All solar-based attic fans qualify for a 30% tax credit. Note this is NOT an
      energy credit and does NOT interfere with AC or other credits. Solar is in a
      class by itself in which there is no upper limit.

      On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 5:03 PM, Tai-Lin Hong <tailinux@...> wrote:

      Ron,

      If the solar attic fans can reduce the attic temperature 35-45 degrees, do
      I still need air conditioners for the rest part of the house?

      I also hate the fussy insolation foams, can I do away with it?

      Where can I get these solar attic fans?

      Thanks, Tai-Lin Hong

      --- On Tue, 9/7/10, Ron Foster <toronfoster@...> wrote:

      From: Ron Foster <toronfoster@...>

      Subject: Re: [hreg] Advice for new roof
      To: hreg@yahoogroups.com

      Date: Tuesday, September 7, 2010, 9:59 AM

      That still sounds pretty hot to me. Did you measure the temp? Also, how much
      did the ridge vents cost? One good solar attic fan cost less than $800 after
      tax credit and will reduce attic temp as much as 45 degrees, though usually
      around 35 degrees. Also, ridge vents do virtually nothing to address high
      moisture.

      On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 9:50 AM, Scarsella, Thomas M. (JSC-IS4)[TESSADA &
      ASSOC INC] <Thomas.m.scarsella@...
      <http://mc/compose?to=Thomas.m.scarsella@...> > wrote:

      We had continuous ridge venting installed when we had our roof replaced a
      decade ago and the attic is now much cooler than it was beforehand. We had
      a large electric fan that would run for long periods and the attic was still
      too hot to tolerate for more than a few minutes. We have always had vented
      soffits. There is also a large slatted air intake in the exterior wall
      below one of the roof peaks for air flow. I believe that vent is what
      enables the ridge venting to work as well as it does so I'd say the ridge
      venting will work fine in Houston if you have enough air intake.

      Since getting the ridge venting we have been able to work in the attic long
      enough to put some decking down to reinforce the rafters, add hurricane
      straps, and make some other small improvements and repairs.

      Tom S.

      From: hreg@yahoogroups.com <http://mc/compose?to=hreg@yahoogroups.com>
      [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com <http://mc/compose?to=hreg@yahoogroups.com> ]
      On Behalf Of Garth & Kim Travis
      Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 5:33 PM
      To: hreg@yahoogroups.com <http://mc/compose?to=hreg@yahoogroups.com>

      Subject: Re: [hreg] Advice for new roof

      Greetings,

      I did apply foil to the underside of a roof once. It really helped. It
      took a while to finish the job so I was able to test the idea. The
      first side finished was 10 to 15 degrees F cooler, just under the roof.
      Measuring air temp. It was just ordinary cooking foil put up with an
      office stapler.

      Bright Blessings,
      Garth & Kim Travis
      www.TheRoseColoredForest.com
      Bedias, Texas
      936-395-0110

      On 9/5/2010 5:29 PM, Andrea Wisner wrote:
      >
      >
      > Thank you for posting the link to your presentation with Mr. Strong! I
      > enjoyed it and now feel better educated.
      > I am still thinking about painting with reflective coating our actual
      > asphalt shingles, which were in the process of being installed (by the
      > bank) when we first saw the house before we bought it, and which I doubt
      > even have a warranty. I'm sure they used the cheapest stuff possible -
      > only a year later gravel from the shingles is filling our gutters and
      > water-collection system. I read that there's an acrylic coating to go on
      > top of the reflective coating which will help keep it cleaner and help
      > it last longer.
      > So far I've heard this all can be done, and that it's a good idea, but
      > yet I've never heard any actual experiences of applying this stuff to a
      > pitched asphalt-shingle roof. I've even emailed the reflective coatings
      > council, and member companies, a couple times, but they never respond. I
      > guess they're not interested in pitching their product. I'm trying to
      > figure out a faux-painting technique that will help it actually look
      > good, as opposed to a solid sheet of white.
      > Once I've actually done this, I'll post on the results.
      > I've thought of applying foil on top of the roof too. Not sure how long
      > it would last!
      > AW
      >
      > --- On *Sun, 9/5/10, Stephanie Edwards-Musa
      > /<steph@...
      <http://mc/compose?to=steph%40turninghoustongreen.com> >/* wrote:
      >
      >
      > From: Stephanie Edwards-Musa <steph@...
      <http://mc/compose?to=steph%40turninghoustongreen.com> >
      > Subject: Re: [hreg] Advice for new roof
      > To: hreg@yahoogroups.com <http://mc/compose?to=hreg%40yahoogroups.com>
      > Date: Sunday, September 5, 2010, 5:50 PM
      >
      > i have not seen anything regarding how it affects the house
      > efficiency but I have read a couple studies of how reflective roofs
      > can dry out neighboring wood and brick because of reflective heat.
      > thought that was quite interesting.
      >
      >
      > Stephanie Edwards-Musa
      > Realtor, Certified EcoBroker
      > Mobile: 281-635-9444
      > Prudential Gary Greene, Realtors
      > www.TurningHoustonGreen.com <http://www.turninghoustongreen.com/>
      > Steph@...
      <http://mc/compose?to=Steph%40TurningHoustonGreen.com>
      >
      >
      > On Sun, Sep 5, 2010 at 2:45 PM, Philip Timmons
      > <philiptimmons@... <http://mc/compose?to=philiptimmons%40yahoo.com>
      > <http://us.mc532.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=philiptimmons@...>>
      > wrote:
      >
      > Great video!
      >
      > Thanks.
      >
      > A lot of good information in this thread.
      >
      > Anyone know the radiant barrier results from putting a mirror
      > surface on or as a roof?
      >
      > Am thinking about that as a solar concentrator method, and it
      > seems like it would put the entire house "in the shade."
      >
      > Any thoughts regarding the radiant barrier aspects of this
      > approach? Have seen no studies along these lines, and am
      > planning on building some side-by-side small box-house type to
      > compare the mirrors to other methods.
      >
      >
      >
      > --- On *Sun, 9/5/10, Stephanie Edwards-Musa
      > /<steph@...
      <http://mc/compose?to=steph%40turninghoustongreen.com>
      >
      <http://us.mc532.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=steph@...>
      >/*
      > wrote:
      >
      >
      > From: Stephanie Edwards-Musa <steph@...
      <http://mc/compose?to=steph%40turninghoustongreen.com>
      >
      <http://us.mc532.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=steph@...>
      >
      >
      >
      > Subject: Re: [hreg] Advice for new roof
      > To: hreg@yahoogroups.com <http://mc/compose?to=hreg%40yahoogroups.com>
      > <http://us.mc532.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=hreg@yahoogroups.com>
      > Date: Sunday, September 5, 2010, 3:29 PM
      >
      >
      > Robert,
      >
      > Here is a webinar that I did a couple years ago that
      > discusses options for radiant barrier. It's about an hour
      > long so you may want to fast forward to the radiant barrier
      > part of it.
      >
      > The kind you tack on to the underside are generally not as
      > effective because they get ripped or torn and require
      > ventilation between the sheet and decking in order to work
      > properly.
      >
      > http://blip.tv/file/1905334
      >
      > Stephanie Edwards-Musa
      > Realtor, Certified EcoBroker
      > Mobile: 281-635-9444
      > Prudential Gary Greene, Realtors
      > www.TurningHoustonGreen.com
      > <http://www.turninghoustongreen.com/>
      > Steph@...
      <http://mc/compose?to=Steph%40TurningHoustonGreen.com>
      >
      >
      > On Sun, Sep 5, 2010 at 1:13 PM, Eileen Nehiley
      > <enehiley@... <http://mc/compose?to=enehiley%40gmail.com>
      > <http://mc/compose?to=enehiley@...>> wrote:
      >
      > Radiant barrier: I have read that these are not
      > practical in Houston due to the humidity. Do you have
      > information to clear up the often contradictory
      > information on this?
      > I have a continuous ridge vent, large screened gable
      > vents at both side ends of house & equally spaced soffit
      > vents all around. House is 2 story.
      > The garage has circular roof vents.
      >
      > Eileen
      >
      > On Sep 5, 2010, at 3:05 PM, Kevin Conlin wrote:
      >
      >>
      >> From a practical standpoint, most builders simply vent
      >> the entire ridge and all the soffits.
      >> You didn't mention if you had soffit vents, but the
      >> effectiveness of any ventilation scheme is dependent
      >> on bringing in cool replacement air from below.
      >> The best solution is continuous ridge and soffit
      >> ventilation, with a radiant barrier tacked to the
      >> underside of the roof joists.
      >> Best Regards, Kevin
      >> Kevin Conlin
      >> Heliosolar Design, Inc.
      >> 13534 Quetzal Lane
      >> Houston, TX 77083
      >> Cell: 281-202-9629
      >> Fax: 281-530-7501
      >> kevin@...

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