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RE: [hreg] electric vehicles

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  • Kevin Conlin
    Betina, I think what they re inferring is the optimum daily usage is 50% of the battery capacity, but the full capacity is there if you need it. Since battery
    Message 1 of 5 , Aug 13 1:37 PM
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      Betina,

       

      I think what they’re inferring is the optimum daily usage is 50% of the battery capacity, but the full capacity is there if you need it.

       

      Since battery life is a function of daily depth of discharge, or DOD, the extra capacity is there to assure longer life, it’s not really wasted at all.

       

      They’ve probably determined the 50% daily DOD is the best trade off between capacity and expected usage.

       

      Toyota just announced their batteries will have an 8 year, 100,000 mile warranty, and others will likely follow, so I wouldn’t get too hung up on technology rumors.

       

      Best Regards,  Kevin

       

      Kevin Conlin
      Heliosolar Design, Inc.
      13534 Quetzal Lane
      Houston , TX 77083
      Cell: 281-202-9629
      Fax: 281-530-7501
      kevin@...


      From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of betina wolfowicz
      Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 2:40 PM
      To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [hreg] electric vehicles

       

       

      I enjoy this article, but there are a couple of passages that were not clear to me, can somebody clarify?

      "The VOLT-hoax uses 16 kWh, but only allows access to 8 kWh, hoping that it will last a bit longer. By underusing inferior Lithium, GM hopes the VOLT-hoax battery won't completely fail before 100K miles. But it's expensive: paying for twice the battery you use is NOT sustainable."
      "And ALL 30 kWh of energy in the Nickel pack IS accessible.
      Ironically, the VOLT-hoax battery weighs over 400 lbs., more if you count the cooling system, with only 8 kWh of accessible energy; 400 lbs., the same weight, of EV-95 NiMH batteries would be 12 kWh, all of it useable."

      Also, what is unclear to me is Chevron blocking its own company's development, since Chevron owes GM?


       

       


      From: Susan Modikoane <suemodikoane@...>
      To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Sun, July 25, 2010 1:27:13 PM
      Subject: [hreg] Interesting History

       

      I copied this off the Yahoo Boards:

       

      Some history:

      In 1994, GM bought control of the exclusive patent licensing rights from a company called ECD (Energy Conversion Devices), but instead of developing it, tried to say it didn't work.

      But in 1997, Toyota proved that Nickel worked, with the RangerEV, HondaEV and RAV4-EV all using the same EV-95 battery pack containing about 30 kWh of electric energy. GM was forced by CARB (California Air Resources Board) to release 200 Nickel EV1 in Dec., 1999; but grudgingly and against policy.

      To kill Nickel EVs, GM handed off the issue to its superior, Chevron (Standard Oil of California). But not directly! Probably to silence recollection of the "urban legend" of Standard Oil, GM and Firestone buying up and dismantling urban rail in the '40s.

      On Oct. 10, 2000 sold Nickel patent rights to Texaco; 6 days later, it was announced that Texaco would merge into Chevron. Thus, it wasn't GM and Standard Oil, directly, there was an intermediary.

      After the merger was consummated, in 2001, Chevron's unit sued Toyota , which in Nov., 2002 was forced to cease production of the battery as well as pay $30 million to Chevron et al.

      Without cheaper, reliable, long-lasting Nickel, Toyota was unable to continue the program. Toyota was granted the right to use Nickel, but only for hybrids that got all their energy, ultimately, from the gasoline pump. Thus, hybrids that can't plug in.

      And NiMH proved superior even for this limited application, even though it was forbidden for the superior use on EVs that CAN plug-in.

      Toyota was forced to stop production of the RAV4-EV, and close down the line of EV-95 batteries; new replacenemt EV-95 Nickel batteries (post-Chevron) are NOT AVAILABLE at any price.

      Supposedly, Chevron's lawsuit was to help ECD, but it really killed existing NiMH use for EVs that can plug-in.

      Now, if Toyota releases a Lithium RAV in 2012, they will be able to upgrade to Nickel after Chevron's rights expire in 2015. Chevron sold some rights to Samsung/Bosch last year, but retaied the stranglehold stopping Toyota from using Nickel.

      To date, none of the promised Lithium EVs are as good as the RAV4-EV, in terms of range, cost, lifespan: the Tesla only guarantees the battery for 50K miles.

      The Leaf-EV will be able to use the entire 24 kWh (smaller than the RAV4-EV) battery pack, but only be guaranteed evidently for 36K miles.

      The VOLT-hoax uses 16 kWh, but only allows access to 8 kWh, hoping that it will last a bit longer. By underusing inferior Lithium, GM hopes the VOLT-hoax battery won't completely fail before 100K miles. But it's expensive: paying for twice the battery you use is NOT sustainable.

      But standard, proven Nickel batteries routinely last more than 100,000 miles yielding over 100 miles all-electric range with recylable batteries, carrying 1000 lbs. of tools and 5 passengers.

      And ALL 30 kWh of energy in the Nickel pack IS accessible.

      Ironically, the VOLT-hoax battery weighs over 400 lbs., more if you count the cooling system, with only 8 kWh of accessible energy; 400 lbs., the same weight, of EV-95 NiMH batteries would be 12 kWh, all of it useable.

      If the VOLT-hoax had Nickel, it would have 60 all-electric miles range!

      Bottom line- the oil companies drill spill and cause us to wage war, even as they stop America from using the battery we need for clean green electric cars!

      Solar panels on the roof of your home, electric car in your driveway! Star power!

       

       

    • betina wolfowicz
      Thanks Kevin ________________________________ From: Kevin Conlin To: hreg@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, August 13, 2010 3:37:18 PM
      Message 2 of 5 , Aug 25 6:49 PM
      • 0 Attachment
        Thanks Kevin


        From: Kevin Conlin <kevin@...>
        To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Fri, August 13, 2010 3:37:18 PM
        Subject: RE: [hreg] electric vehicles

         

        Betina,

         

        I think what they’re inferring is the optimum daily usage is 50% of the battery capacity, but the full capacity is there if you need it.

         

        Since battery life is a function of daily depth of discharge, or DOD, the extra capacity is there to assure longer life, it’s not really wasted at all.

         

        They’ve probably determined the 50% daily DOD is the best trade off between capacity and expected usage.

         

        Toyota just announced their batteries will have an 8 year, 100,000 mile warranty, and others will likely follow, so I wouldn’t get too hung up on technology rumors.

         

        Best Regards,  Kevin

         

        Kevin Conlin
        Heliosolar Design, Inc.
        13534 Quetzal Lane
        Houston , TX 77083
        Cell: 281-202-9629
        Fax: 281-530-7501
        kevin@...


        From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of betina wolfowicz
        Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 2:40 PM
        To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [hreg] electric vehicles

         

         

        I enjoy this article, but there are a couple of passages that were not clear to me, can somebody clarify?

        "The VOLT-hoax uses 16 kWh, but only allows access to 8 kWh, hoping that it will last a bit longer. By underusing inferior Lithium, GM hopes the VOLT-hoax battery won't completely fail before 100K miles. But it's expensive: paying for twice the battery you use is NOT sustainable."
        "And ALL 30 kWh of energy in the Nickel pack IS accessible.
        Ironically, the VOLT-hoax battery weighs over 400 lbs., more if you count the cooling system, with only 8 kWh of accessible energy; 400 lbs., the same weight, of EV-95 NiMH batteries would be 12 kWh, all of it useable."

        Also, what is unclear to me is Chevron blocking its own company's development, since Chevron owes GM?


         

         


        From: Susan Modikoane <suemodikoane@...>
        To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Sun, July 25, 2010 1:27:13 PM
        Subject: [hreg] Interesting History

         

        I copied this off the Yahoo Boards:

         

        Some history:

        In 1994, GM bought control of the exclusive patent licensing rights from a company called ECD (Energy Conversion Devices), but instead of developing it, tried to say it didn't work.

        But in 1997, Toyota proved that Nickel worked, with the RangerEV, HondaEV and RAV4-EV all using the same EV-95 battery pack containing about 30 kWh of electric energy. GM was forced by CARB (California Air Resources Board) to release 200 Nickel EV1 in Dec., 1999; but grudgingly and against policy.

        To kill Nickel EVs, GM handed off the issue to its superior, Chevron (Standard Oil of California). But not directly! Probably to silence recollection of the "urban legend" of Standard Oil, GM and Firestone buying up and dismantling urban rail in the '40s.

        On Oct. 10, 2000 sold Nickel patent rights to Texaco; 6 days later, it was announced that Texaco would merge into Chevron. Thus, it wasn't GM and Standard Oil, directly, there was an intermediary.

        After the merger was consummated, in 2001, Chevron's unit sued Toyota , which in Nov., 2002 was forced to cease production of the battery as well as pay $30 million to Chevron et al.

        Without cheaper, reliable, long-lasting Nickel, Toyota was unable to continue the program. Toyota was granted the right to use Nickel, but only for hybrids that got all their energy, ultimately, from the gasoline pump. Thus, hybrids that can't plug in.

        And NiMH proved superior even for this limited application, even though it was forbidden for the superior use on EVs that CAN plug-in.

        Toyota was forced to stop production of the RAV4-EV, and close down the line of EV-95 batteries; new replacenemt EV-95 Nickel batteries (post-Chevron) are NOT AVAILABLE at any price.

        Supposedly, Chevron's lawsuit was to help ECD, but it really killed existing NiMH use for EVs that can plug-in.

        Now, if Toyota releases a Lithium RAV in 2012, they will be able to upgrade to Nickel after Chevron's rights expire in 2015. Chevron sold some rights to Samsung/Bosch last year, but retaied the stranglehold stopping Toyota from using Nickel.

        To date, none of the promised Lithium EVs are as good as the RAV4-EV, in terms of range, cost, lifespan: the Tesla only guarantees the battery for 50K miles.

        The Leaf-EV will be able to use the entire 24 kWh (smaller than the RAV4-EV) battery pack, but only be guaranteed evidently for 36K miles.

        The VOLT-hoax uses 16 kWh, but only allows access to 8 kWh, hoping that it will last a bit longer. By underusing inferior Lithium, GM hopes the VOLT-hoax battery won't completely fail before 100K miles. But it's expensive: paying for twice the battery you use is NOT sustainable.

        But standard, proven Nickel batteries routinely last more than 100,000 miles yielding over 100 miles all-electric range with recylable batteries, carrying 1000 lbs. of tools and 5 passengers.

        And ALL 30 kWh of energy in the Nickel pack IS accessible.

        Ironically, the VOLT-hoax battery weighs over 400 lbs., more if you count the cooling system, with only 8 kWh of accessible energy; 400 lbs., the same weight, of EV-95 NiMH batteries would be 12 kWh, all of it useable.

        If the VOLT-hoax had Nickel, it would have 60 all-electric miles range!

        Bottom line- the oil companies drill spill and cause us to wage war, even as they stop America from using the battery we need for clean green electric cars!

        Solar panels on the roof of your home, electric car in your driveway! Star power!

         

         


      • Kevin Conlin
        You re welcome, Betina. Since my last post I think Chevy announced the Volt will also have an 8 year, 100,000 mile warranty on the battery pack. I think
        Message 3 of 5 , Aug 25 6:58 PM
        • 0 Attachment

          You’re welcome, Betina.   Since my last post I think Chevy announced the Volt will also have an 8 year, 100,000 mile warranty on the battery pack. 

           

          I think that’s real progress; the new electrics now have the same warranty as a conventional vehicle.

           

          Best Regards,  Kevin

           

          Kevin Conlin
          Heliosolar Design, Inc.
          13534 Quetzal Lane
          Houston , TX 77083
          Cell: 281-202-9629
          Fax: 281-530-7501
          kevin@...


          From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of betina wolfowicz
          Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 8:50 PM
          To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [hreg] electric vehicles

           

           

          Thanks Kevin

           


          From: Kevin Conlin <kevin@...>
          To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Fri, August 13, 2010 3:37:18 PM
          Subject: RE: [hreg] electric vehicles

           

          Betina,

           

          I think what they’re inferring is the optimum daily usage is 50% of the battery capacity, but the full capacity is there if you need it.

           

          Since battery life is a function of daily depth of discharge, or DOD, the extra capacity is there to assure longer life, it’s not really wasted at all.

           

          They’ve probably determined the 50% daily DOD is the best trade off between capacity and expected usage.

           

          Toyota just announced their batteries will have an 8 year, 100,000 mile warranty, and others will likely follow, so I wouldn’t get too hung up on technology rumors.

           

          Best Regards,  Kevin

           

          Kevin Conlin
          Heliosolar Design, Inc.
          13534 Quetzal Lane
          Houston , TX 77083
          Cell: 281-202-9629
          Fax: 281-530-7501
          kevin@...


          From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of betina wolfowicz
          Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 2:40 PM
          To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [hreg] electric vehicles

           

           

          I enjoy this article, but there are a couple of passages that were not clear to me, can somebody clarify?

          "The VOLT-hoax uses 16 kWh, but only allows access to 8 kWh, hoping that it will last a bit longer. By underusing inferior Lithium, GM hopes the VOLT-hoax battery won't completely fail before 100K miles. But it's expensive: paying for twice the battery you use is NOT sustainable."
          "And ALL 30 kWh of energy in the Nickel pack IS accessible.
          Ironically, the VOLT-hoax battery weighs over 400 lbs., more if you count the cooling system, with only 8 kWh of accessible energy; 400 lbs., the same weight, of EV-95 NiMH batteries would be 12 kWh, all of it useable."

          Also, what is unclear to me is Chevron blocking its own company's development, since Chevron owes GM?


           

           


          From: Susan Modikoane <suemodikoane@...>
          To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Sun, July 25, 2010 1:27:13 PM
          Subject: [hreg] Interesting History

           

          I copied this off the Yahoo Boards:

           

          Some history:

          In 1994, GM bought control of the exclusive patent licensing rights from a company called ECD (Energy Conversion Devices), but instead of developing it, tried to say it didn't work.

          But in 1997, Toyota proved that Nickel worked, with the RangerEV, HondaEV and RAV4-EV all using the same EV-95 battery pack containing about 30 kWh of electric energy. GM was forced by CARB (California Air Resources Board) to release 200 Nickel EV1 in Dec., 1999; but grudgingly and against policy.

          To kill Nickel EVs, GM handed off the issue to its superior, Chevron (Standard Oil of California). But not directly! Probably to silence recollection of the "urban legend" of Standard Oil, GM and Firestone buying up and dismantling urban rail in the '40s.

          On Oct. 10, 2000 sold Nickel patent rights to Texaco; 6 days later, it was announced that Texaco would merge into Chevron. Thus, it wasn't GM and Standard Oil, directly, there was an intermediary.

          After the merger was consummated, in 2001, Chevron's unit sued Toyota , which in Nov., 2002 was forced to cease production of the battery as well as pay $30 million to Chevron et al.

          Without cheaper, reliable, long-lasting Nickel, Toyota was unable to continue the program. Toyota was granted the right to use Nickel, but only for hybrids that got all their energy, ultimately, from the gasoline pump. Thus, hybrids that can't plug in.

          And NiMH proved superior even for this limited application, even though it was forbidden for the superior use on EVs that CAN plug-in.

          Toyota was forced to stop production of the RAV4-EV, and close down the line of EV-95 batteries; new replacenemt EV-95 Nickel batteries (post-Chevron) are NOT AVAILABLE at any price.

          Supposedly, Chevron's lawsuit was to help ECD, but it really killed existing NiMH use for EVs that can plug-in.

          Now, if Toyota releases a Lithium RAV in 2012, they will be able to upgrade to Nickel after Chevron's rights expire in 2015. Chevron sold some rights to Samsung/Bosch last year, but retaied the stranglehold stopping Toyota from using Nickel.

          To date, none of the promised Lithium EVs are as good as the RAV4-EV, in terms of range, cost, lifespan: the Tesla only guarantees the battery for 50K miles.

          The Leaf-EV will be able to use the entire 24 kWh (smaller than the RAV4-EV) battery pack, but only be guaranteed evidently for 36K miles.

          The VOLT-hoax uses 16 kWh, but only allows access to 8 kWh, hoping that it will last a bit longer. By underusing inferior Lithium, GM hopes the VOLT-hoax battery won't completely fail before 100K miles. But it's expensive: paying for twice the battery you use is NOT sustainable.

          But standard, proven Nickel batteries routinely last more than 100,000 miles yielding over 100 miles all-electric range with recylable batteries, carrying 1000 lbs. of tools and 5 passengers.

          And ALL 30 kWh of energy in the Nickel pack IS accessible.

          Ironically, the VOLT-hoax battery weighs over 400 lbs., more if you count the cooling system, with only 8 kWh of accessible energy; 400 lbs., the same weight, of EV-95 NiMH batteries would be 12 kWh, all of it useable.

          If the VOLT-hoax had Nickel, it would have 60 all-electric miles range!

          Bottom line- the oil companies drill spill and cause us to wage war, even as they stop America from using the battery we need for clean green electric cars!

          Solar panels on the roof of your home, electric car in your driveway! Star power!

           

           

           

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