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7069RE: [hreg] Automakers adding more MPG to new cars

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  • Robert Johnston
    Dec 3, 2007

      My point was not to eliminate government, but to argue that government action should be aligned with sound economic principles rather than simply using its power to manipulate the economy according to the dictates of either do-gooders who don’t know how the world works, or the corporate interests that you despise.  If you re-read my email, I didn’t say anything about congress not being able to legislate to control emissions, fuel economy, etc.  I simply argued that they should not be micromanaging, but rather setting policies that let economics and the market natural find the best solutions.  Doing otherwise only makes things worse in the long run.


      Your examples clearly demonstrate my point.  It was CONGRESS that:

      1. Propped up (and continues to) tobacco industry through farm subsidies and protection of tobacco trade overseas.
      2. Accelerated the rise of the pharmaceutical industry through its heavy subsidization of drug research, FDA suppression of drug import/export, FDA suppression of alternative health/supplement industries.  This will be even further accelerated by the eventual implementation of government funded healthcare.  Consumers will have no options then except feeding the medical-pharmaceutical industry.
      3. On topic, ethanol subsidies are doing the same thing to energy that these other policies did in their fields.  Thus, you can see that the recent congressional action that I was responding to further perpetuates the fraud by allowing fleet mileage credits for flexi-fuel cars (ethanol consumers).
      4. In reference to your 2nd email, it was congress that implemented import quotas on fuel-efficient foreign cars, thereby protecting Detroit so they could resist changing their designs.
      5. It was congress that continues to protect organized labor to the extent that Detroit can’t be competitive.  Part of this is due to high cost of health care benefits, to which I refer you back to #2.

      You may think that industry is out to make a buck and that is true.  Isn’t everyone who provides a service or product?  But I find nothing wrong with that.  It is how I put food on the table.  That stands in stark contrast to Congress whose mission is to spend.


      There is a role for government, obviously.  My point is that it needs to be high level guidance through policy setting that works WITH economic principles.  Unfortunately, power and money prevents that in many cases. 





      From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ryan Evans
      Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2007 7:35 AM
      To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [hreg] Automakers adding more MPG to new cars


      Why not just get rid of the congress then?
      Just keep the treasury department and get rid of the
      congress all together if our country is to be
      completely run by capitalism.
      I mean we're pretty much at that stage already right?
      So just let the "consumer" dictate the outcome of life
      and everything, because that has worked out so well
      for us so far.
      You want to know the sole purpose of the as you so put
      it "corporate operations"?
      It is to make money. That's it. That is it's absolute
      only purpose of existence.
      It's not to improve quality of life. It's not to
      create a better world or to have harmony amongst our
      species. Although sometimes these are circumstancial
      bi-products, 99.9% of the time, the main driving force
      behind a corporate operation is to sell the product
      thay have in their hand and make money.
      And as we've all seen in the past and up to today,
      corporate operations with little to no supervision
      fueled by consumers has alwayshad great outcomes.
      Let's think about some of the examples
      ....well I could write a list that goes on for pages.
      Thus leading me to the subject matter of automobiles
      and consumers.
      Besides the catalytic converter and the seat belt, the
      car has not had any real supervision and it's
      transformation of what it is today has been driven by
      As I said earlier, the corporate operations only
      purpose is to make money. And even with the enormous
      attention to global warming, gas, etc etc, there is a
      reason that air polluting, gas guzzling SUV's and
      Pickup trucks that literally get 12 miles to the
      gallon are still being sold by the millions.... .....
      So though anarchism and barterism would be the most
      ideal form of life for humanity, it is simply not in
      our nature as a whole and we need authoratative roles
      to keep oursleves from complete self-destruction. In
      so many levels, we've already come to understand this,
      which gave birth to government.
      Our government, though very extrememly flawed because
      as one great quote says "power corrupts" is still a
      phenomenal body of work that we humans created to help
      give all people under it's system an equal chance at
      living....it is capitalism that has actually twisted
      and deformed it into the monster. and what keeps
      feeding the capital beast?
      us...the consumer.... .
      consumers dictating the outcome of humanity?
      I just don't see a good outcome of that.

      --- Robert Johnston <junk1@plastability. com> wrote:

      > This is so wrong. Congress is the last organization
      > I want to see
      > micromanaging vehicle design and corporate
      > operations. Might as well shut
      > down Detroit and send all the jobs to
      w:st="on"> China .
      > If we believe we need to legislate conservation,
      > wouldn't it be better to
      > simply charge a large gasoline tax and then let the
      > market dictate car
      > design according to consumer demand?
      > Robert
      > _____
      > From: hreg@yahoogroups. com
      > [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups. com]
      On Behalf Of Solar
      > Energy
      > Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 11:24 PM
      > To: hreg@yahoogroups. com
      > Subject: [hreg] Automakers adding more MPG to new
      > cars
      > Energy plan pushes automakers on mpg
      > By KEN THOMAS, Associated Press Writer
      - The groundbreaking deal in Congress to
      > raise mile-per-gallon
      > standards will compel the auto industry to churn out
      > more fuel-efficient
      > vehicles on a faster timeline than the companies
      > wanted, though with
      > flexibility to get the job done.
      > The auto industry's fleet of new cars, sport utility
      > vehicles, pickup trucks
      > and vans will have to average 35 mpg by 2020,
      > according to the agreement
      > that congressional negotiators announced late
      > Friday. That compares with the
      > 2008 requirement of 27.5 mpg average for cars and
      > 22.5 mpg for light trucks.
      > It would be first increase ordered by Congress in
      > three decades.
      > Majority Democrats plan to include the requirement
      > in broader energy
      > legislation to be debated in the context of
      > $90-per-barrel oil, $3-plus pump
      > prices and growing concerns about climate change.
      > The House plans to begin
      > debate this week.
      > "It is a major milestone and the first concrete
      > legislation to address
      > global warming," said Sen. Dianne Feinstein,
      > D-Calif.
      > While Senate Democrats were quick to embrace the
      > compromise, the energy bill
      > may face problems over requirements for nonpublic
      > electric utilities to
      > produce 15 percent of their power from renewable
      > energy sources such as wind
      > or solar.
      > Sen. Pete Domenici, R-N.M., on Saturday said that
      > idea "will make this bill
      > untenable for many in the Senate."
      > Environmentalists have sought stricter mileage
      > standards for years, saying
      > that is the most effective way to curb greenhouse
      > gas emissions and oil
      > consumption.
      > The energy bill will help accelerate plans by
      > automakers to bring more
      > fuel-efficient technologies to conventional engines
      > and alternatives such as
      > gas-electric hybrids and vehicles running on ethanol
      > blends. For the first
      > time, for example, manufacturers will receive
      > credits for building vehicles
      > running on biodiesel fuel.
      > Domestic automakers and Toyota Motor Corp.
      > vehemently opposed a Senate bill
      > approved passed in June that contained the same
      > mileage requirements and
      > timeline. They warned the measure would limit the
      > choice of vehicles,
      > threaten jobs and drive up costs.
      > The companies backed an alternative of 32 mpg to 35
      > mpg by 2022. At the
      > time, Chrysler LLC executive Tom LaSorda told
      > employees the Senate bill
      > would "add up to a staggering $6,700 - almost a 40
      > percent increase - to the
      > cost of every Chrysler vehicle."
      > But the compromise worked out by Rep. John Dingell,
      > D-Mich., House Speaker
      > Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., and Senate leaders,
      > maintains a significant boost in
      > mileage standards while giving the industry more
      > flexibility and certainty
      > as they plan new vehicles.
      > The proposal would continue separate standards for
      > cars and trucks, extend
      > credits for producing vehicles that run on ethanol
      > blends, and allow
      > automakers to receive separate credits for exceeding
      > the standards and then
      > apply those credits to other model years.
      > Michigan
      lawmakers secured an extension of the
      > current 1.2 mpg credit for
      > the production of each "flexible fuel" vehicle,
      > capable of running on
      > ethanol blends of 15 percent gasoline and 85 percent
      > ethanol. Without the
      > extension, the credits may have run out by 2010, but
      > under the deal, they
      > will be phased out by 2020.
      > The United Auto Workers union also won a provision
      > intended to prevent
      > companies from shifting production of less
      > profitable small cars to overseas
      > plants. At stake are an estimated 17,000 jobs.
      > The House's energy bill, approved in August, did not
      > include mileage
      > standards, and lawmakers had worked since then to
      > include them.
      > Rick Wagoner, General Motors Corp.'s chairman and
      > chief executive, said the
      > new rules would "pose a significant technical and
      > economic challenge to the
      > industry." He said GM would tackle the changes "with
      > an array of
      > engineering, research and development resources."
      > GM, Chrysler and Ford Motor Co. have announced plans
      > to double their
      > production by 2010 of flex-fuel vehicles.
      w:st="on">Toyota has
      > said it will bring the
      > option to the Tundra pickup.
      > Among hybrids, Toyota
      has dominated the market with
      > the Prius, but several
      > automakers are beginning to bring the technology to
      > large SUVs and pickups.
      > Environmental groups estimate the deal would save
      > the country 1.2 million
      > barrels of oil per day by 2020 while helping
      > motorists save at the pump.
      > "Cars are going to be more attractive to consumers
      > because they won't cost
      > as much to own and operate," said David Doniger,
      > director of the climate
      > center for the Natural Resources Defense Council.
      > _____
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