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4344Re: [hreg] Re: Roger Ebert reviews An Inconvenient Truth

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  • Edward Kramer
    Jun 5, 2006
    • 0 Attachment
      I would disagree with you, an installed 50 k system after rebates and incentives produces electricity for roughly 6-7 cents a killowatt for a minimum of 25 years-really forever. I would say that is a good business investment. When you have a "free" power source such as the sun, no moving parts to wear out (no maintenace costs), I would call that a win -win-win and oh yes, not a single ounce of greenhouse gas emmision. Subsidies, why does oil and gas, coal and rail pay no taxes!
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 11:47 AM
      Subject: Re: [hreg] Re: Roger Ebert reviews An Inconvenient Truth

      I think a better question for us to ask is why do these corporations purchase and install renewable energy in other locations but not in Texas? 
      The short answer is because utility prices are still relatively low here in Texas and not as high as they are in California and other states.  This is especially true where the taxpayer subsidizes the cost of electricity for municipally owned utilities and rural co-ops.  This subsidy artificially keeps the price of electricity low for large commercial consumers. 
      The irony is that if a poor electric consumer and taxpayer cannot pay their bill these subsidized utilities will not hesitate to disconnect the user's power.  However, if and when large commercial consumers are late with their payments the utilities will bend over backwards to accomodate them. 

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Edward Kramer
      Sent: Jun 5, 2006 11:25 AM
      To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [hreg] Re: Roger Ebert reviews An Inconvenient Truth

         Why does the city of Austin have a rebate plan, allocated from the tax revenues it receives from electric bills to promote the installation of PV systems.?  why dioes Walgreen does install 122 of their stores in California with PV systems. Why does Whole Foods Markets, based out of Austin , with four stores in Houston install PV systems in their California stores and "green" it up on their web site.Could it be they are good stewards of the environment, or that they are taking advantage of Federal and local financial (rebate) incentives to add solar. What incentive plan does the city of Houston have? One nice thing about this forum is that we exchange ideas and might come to some important dialogue.  Just briefing thru your add on I see a lot of wind farms. They are nice, but where are they located? West Texas is nie for wind farms, but that is a long way from my home.
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 8:00 AM
      Subject: Re: [hreg] Re: Roger Ebert reviews An Inconvenient Truth


      I'll try to say this politely - please step off the soapbox. You have repeatedly made unsubstantiated statements on the HREG listserv, much to the chagrin of its members.   You should know what you're talking about before making declarations.  If you research what you wish to discuss before you enter the "soapbox zone", you will understand the issue.  You will also have factual, actual, information to substantiate your argument, and a solid platform to stand on. Please employ more facts and less conjecture and hyperbole in your entries.

      One example - you said "The city of Houston has not not taken heed to this warning. they are by far the largest user of electricity, yet have not one action plan to make changes."   Where did you get this information from Edward? An update to your statement in the p.s. will bring you current on this "declaration."

      I wish you all the best in expressing yourself as factually as you do actually.  You will find greater support for your ideas if they are defend-able.  Good luck.


      p.s.  here is some information on Houston's Alternative Energy initiatives that will update your last statement. You will learn there are "more than a few" Alt-Energy initiatives in Houston, contrary to your previous statements.   That is, if you have a real interest in Renewable Energy and Alt-Energy projects. Otherwise, you wouldn't be here, right?


      Alternative Energy Industry Guide to Houston

      As the Energy Capital of the World, Houston uses its spirit of innovation and collaboration to forge new ground across all aspects of the energy sector.

      Extensive research and development is underway on developing energy sources that are not based on the burning of fossil fuels or the splitting of atoms. These include geothermal, wind, tide, solar, ground source heat pumps, biofuels hydroelectric and hydrogen fuel cells. The Greater Houston Partnership is working with area organizations to develop and demonstrate advanced hydrogen and fuel cell technologies that will reduce our nation's dependency on oil, improve air quality and maintain the region's economic competitiveness.

      Houston has the tools and infrastructure in place to capitalize on this emerging sector of the energy industry.

      Industry Facts:

      • Texas is one of the top three states in the country in wind power potential
      • In 2003, Texas installed more wind power than the entire United States had in any other year
      • Many of Houston's school crossing lights are powered by solar energy

      Green Mountain Energy Case Study

      Green Mountain Energy is one of 11 electric retailers from whom Houstonians can purchase their electric power. Much of Green Mountain Energy's source for electricity is wind power.

      The Green Mountain Energy Wind Farm in Borden and Scurry counties in West Texas produces enough electricity to power 30,000 homes.

      Alternative Energy Downloadable Fact Sheet

      Who's Who in Houston Alternative Enery:

      Alternative Energy Resources:

      • Business Development Division of the Greater Houston Partnership
      • Houston Advanced Research Center
      • Houston Energy Collaborative
      • Houston Technology Center

      Energy Events in Houston

      Energy events bring together top talent, innovation and information.

      • Energy events in Houston include: the Offshore Technology Conference (OTC) and the Energy Venture Forum. Held annually in Houston, OTC is the energy industry's premier conference and exhibition focused on deepwater offshore technology. The 51,320 participants from 110 nations in 2005 represented OTC's highest attendance since 1985. The exhibition included 2,087 exhibiting companies, totaling more than 410,000 net square feet, filling all available indoor and outdoor space.
      • The Energy Venture Forum at Houston's Rice University introduces the most promising early-stage energy-related technology companies to leading venture capitalists. Participants hear about cutting-edge research and learn about emerging technology developments in traditional and alternative energy. Approximately 450 attendees participated in 2004.

      Energy Resources in Houston

      Where to go and what to do if you're thinking of starting, moving or expanding your business in Houston.

      Some fuel for thought: From oil and gas to chemical development and production, the 10-county Houston region is the center of all things energy. The region offers a solid energy and chemical foundation and a workforce skilled in meeting the sector's needs. The region's large concentration of oil expertise and experience is a magnet attracting more oil expertise and experience to the area.

      The Greater Houston Partnership has a unique place among business organizations. It combines opportunities for economic development, international business and public policy development. As the Houston region's primary business advocate, the Partnership helps keep businesses connected and works in their interests.

      Energy Facts

      • Forty-eight percent of the region's economic base employment is related to energy.
      • Houston is headquarters for 17 energy-related Fortune 500 companies.
      • Houston is home to the cutting-edge Offshore Technology Conference (OTC).
      • Houston houses more than 3,600 energy-related establishments.
      • Houston is home to 13 of the nation's 20 largest natural gas transmission companies.
      • Houston has nearly 600 exploration and production firms.
      • Houston has more than 170 pipeline operators.
      • Hundreds of manufacturers of energy-sector products call Houston home.

      In recent years, industry giants such as CITGO and Noble and smaller energy-related companies including Johnson Engineering and Hydralift, Inc. have relocated to Houston. Another 192 energy businesses have found Houston fertile ground for growth. In every case, expansions and relocations equal jobs for the Houston region.

      Houston Entrepreneurial Enterprises Facts:

      • The Houston region is home to more than 85,000 small businesses
      • Houston's dynamic economy, well-developed information technology sector, talented workforce, business-friendly environment, low costs of living and ease of doing business make it a natural magnet for entrepreneurs.
      • Houston ranked #2 on the Milken Institute's 2003 Best-Performing Cities Index
      • Site Selection magazine ranked the Houston-Baytown-Sugar Land metro area in the top 10 of Metro Areas for Investment in its March, 2004 issue
      • Houston has the lowest cost of living among the country's 24 largest metropolitan areas, according to the ACCRA Cost of Living Index for the first quarter of 2005
      • With no state personal income or state property taxes, Houston has one of the lowest per-family tax burdens of any major U.S. city

      Enterpreneurial Enterprises Resources:

      • The Greater Houston Partnership Emerging Business Council
      • The Greater Houston Partnership Business Development Division
      • Texas Economic Development Web site
      • Small Business Administration
      • University of Houston Small Business Development Center

      Enterpreneurial Enterprises Events:

      The Greater Houston Partnership Super Summit, held yearly, helps emerging businesses learn to better partner with established corporations


      Oil Companies, Experts Discuss Alternative Energy Development
      By Greg Flakus
      Houston 07 February 2006

      Around 1,800 oil and gas company executives, government energy ministers and other players in the world energy sector have gathered in Houston for a special emphasis on developing new sources of energy.

      The theme for this year's conference is "The New Prize: Energy's Next Era," and that encompasses everything from extraction of oil from Canada's extensive tar sands to development of solar power and ethanol.

      CERA Senior Advisor James Rosenfield is one of the three men who founded the conference in 1983. He tells VOA that many of the big oil companies represented here are already investing a lot of money in alternative energy programs.

      "A lot of the new economy of energy is going to be driven by the international oil companies such as Shell, BP and Exxon, who are really investing billions and billions of dollars in R and D (Research and Development) for new sources of supply, solar alternatives, fuel cells, distributed generation, really across the spectrum," Rosenfield said. "In the case of BP, their focus has been on electric power, actually, using a lot of their technology to look at alternative and renewable sources of electric power generation."

      Rosenfield says using CERAWeek to focus on such issues as alternative energy, non-conventional oil sources and conservation could have important consequences worldwide because participants represent every aspect of the international energy business.

      "We will have exploration and production companies, national oil companies, integrated oil companies, but also utilities, energy end users, consumers such as Dow and Boeing and some of the automotive companies as well and then the financial institutions that provide the capital, in many cases, for the industry," he said.

      Included in the mix of participants are representatives from several member nations of the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries, known as OPEC. One of the chief speakers at the opening ceremony Tuesday will be Saudi Arabia's Oil Minister, Ali Naimi.

      OPEC leaders have at times expressed concern over US and European efforts to develop alternative energy because it could divert investment from development of conventional energy sources. In an appearance here in Houston last year, the head of the Saudi oil company, Aramco, said his nation's vast oil reserves represent a reliable supply of energy that alternative energy programs are not likely to equal any time soon.

      But Rosenfield says he does not believe the Saudis are against development of other energy sources.

      "I think that the Saudis actually take a view that we are in this together, that we need to build the world's oil and energy supply, to build a stable and diversified supply base," he added. "We will hear from Mr. Naimi and what he has to say, but, while they are committed to an oil and hydrocarbon economy, they also recognize that over multi-decades we are going to be looking towards a lot of different sources of supply as well."

      In his state of the union address last week, President Bush called for programs that would lessen U.S. dependence on foreign sources of oil and gave special emphasis to the development of biofuels like ethanol. Brazil, which has a successful ethanol program based on fuel from sugar cane, is also represented at CERAWeek and Rosenfield says he expects a lot of discussion among participants about such programs.


      On 6/5/06, Edward Kramer <onekindr@...> wrote:
      Maybe what I meant to say is carbon is in your every day life -from the tires on the car (are they rubber): or the PC housing, to the packageing of your groceries etc. That is our foundation of consumer products. Does a barrel of oil go for 100 % usage of  gasoline and petrol products? Next time you eat a chocolate bar, think of what is in that chocolate bar. The real treasure thats in  oil is the refined black carbon, the building block of a plastics. Plastics equate to consumption which equals growth. The delimea we face is how to conserve. If you watch PBS, even Chevron advertises that half the worlds energy supply is used up, the problem is how to effectively use the rest. For sure, it is going to be more expensive, and hence under a capitilistic system, the growth of other competing dollar entities are going to shrink. That is not a good thing at all. The city of Houston has not not taken heed to this warning. they are by far the largest user of electricity, yet have not one action plan to make changes. I heard they found some federal money and invested in a wind farm at King Ranch. Maybe they can open an annex buiding next door.
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 11:37 PM
      Subject: [hreg] Re: Roger Ebert reviews An Inconvenient Truth

      Maybe I'm misunderstanding your comments, but please note that: 
      (1) "black carbon" is not the basic building block of life; (2)
      carbon is an element that is indeed the building block of life; (3)
      carbon in various molecular forms is "burned" by animals every day
      to form CO2; (4) CO2 is "recycled" by plants that convert it into
      sugars, cellulose, etc. that are then used by animals via #2, as
      well as used for building houses, burning to heat them, etc.; marine
      invertebrates fix a lot of CO2 by incorporation into carbonates,
      which we humans also use in various ways; (5) I haven't read any
      serious scientists proposing that we will exhaust the world's carbon
      supply by burning it up; (6) none of this is to dispute that CO2
      levels are at record highs, but simply to remind HREG readers that
      the chemistry of the carbon cycle is complex and varied because it
      IS the foundation of life--let's try to keep the basic facts

      Robert Johnston

      --- In hreg@yahoogroups.com, "Edward Kramer" <onekindr@...> wrote:
      > A geophysicist will argue that we are in a natural warming caused
      by changing sea levels, shift in plates and natural changes in the
      jet stream. Global warming might be a small cause of the natural
      warming trend, and the earth atmosphee can handle any Co2 gases that
      we humans combust. Electricity is suppose to make our life better,
      and if we do not find a sustainable source of electricity, life for
      our children and theirs will revert to prehistoric times. We are
      here for a very short time, we should only borrow from mother
      nature, not take. If we deplete the carbon resources,
      > what is the next generation going to do for the very basic
      building life of all matter-black carbon. Rather than utilizing the
      carbon for the solid production of physical goods, we are burning it
      up in combustion for electricity. Once its gone, its gone. If we do
      not wake up and make some serious changes in our lifestyles, how we
      use the exiting resources, the future does not look so bright the
      >   ----- Original Message -----
      >   From: Sarah Carriger
      >   To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
      >   Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 6:53 PM
      >   Subject: Re: [hreg] Roger Ebert reviews An Inconvenient Truth
      >   I do not understand the comment of where the children are going
      to play.  Same place they played before the turn of the 20th
      century - before oil production became a big business - outside.  If
      fossil fuel is causing global warming, then isn't this a good thing
      that we run out of fossil fuels???  This planet and her inhabitants
      survived just fine without oil and we can do it again.  It appears
      that only when the supply is indeed limited will there be any
      advances in alternative energy production, because at that point
      there will be no choice.
      >   Edward Kramer wrote:
      >     Thanks for the invite, but I would rather conserve my fuel, as
      the round trip from my house is costly and I will do my part to help
      the future. Remeber, there is only 70-80 year supply of fossil fuel
      in the world. Where are the chiildren going to play?
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