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3224Re: [hreg] what's so great about hybrids?

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  • John Miggins
    Aug 14, 2005
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      Go VW baby,
      they have several models with 40+ miles per gallon, the TDI (diesel) is over
      fifty, and stylish as well.

      Hard to find a good TDI used, they are bringing premiums.

      I traded in my suburban for a Passat Wagon 1999 and although is is smaller
      it is much more efficient and peppy, not to mention cooler.

      I get about 28 mpg and drive hard most of the time. It is much closer to
      the ground and sometimes I feel like I am lost amidst the titans but I just
      whip around them and wave as they stop at the gas station. :)









      John Miggins
      Harvest Solar & Wind Power
      "renewable solutions to everyday needs"
      www.harvest-energy.com
      Phone/Fax 918-743-2299
      Cell: 918-521-6223

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Robert Johnston" <junk1@...>
      To: <hreg@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 2:07 PM
      Subject: RE: [hreg] what's so great about hybrids?


      Correction: I incorrectly said it was a $2000 tax credit. I just checked
      the IRS website and it is a $2000 deduction. So the actual after-tax
      savings for people in the 28% tax bracket is $560, not enough to make up the
      difference in cost of the hybrid vs. conventional car. So, I think unless
      gas prices go up considerably more, it still may not make economic sense to
      the consumer (unless you want to gamble on hypothetical advantages in
      depreciation, etc.).

      Robert

      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
      > Robert Johnston
      > Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 2:02 PM
      > To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: RE: [hreg] what's so great about hybrids?
      >
      > I agree that they are economically attractive. When the premium pricing
      > disappears, they may become significantly more so. But when my colleague
      > purchased her hybrid (early 2005), this wasn't true. If you compared a
      > hybrid with a similar car, for example, compared the Honda Civic Hybrid
      > vs.
      > the Honda Civic standard, allowing for the difference in price vs. the
      > difference in fuel consumption, the hybrid proved to be more expensive to
      > own and operate. Comparing a Prius vs. an SUV is not a fair pricing
      > comparison; you need to compare comparable vehicles. As for the
      > depreciation, that is a transient thing; I wouldn't count on it
      > persisting.
      > Prius isn't the first car model that was "hot" for a time. (I remember
      > when
      > the Chrysler PT Cruiser first came out and sold for well above MSRP, those
      > that got theirs early could flip them for a nice profit or at least not
      > lose
      > money to depreciation. But see what they go for now!).
      >
      > Just for grins, I redid the numbers as I did before I purchased my Honda
      > Civic a few months ago. From Carpoint.com, a base model Civic Hybrid goes
      > for $19,900 MSRP and $18,183 base invoice. Good luck getting one for less
      > than MSRP, of course! On the other hand, a regular Civic LX 5-spd with
      > front side airbags (the closest match I can find to the Hybrid) goes for
      > $15,860 MSRP and $14497 retail. Since I just bought a Civic for a couple
      > hundred over invoice, I know that is feasible. Just the same, let's be
      > real
      > conservative and assume a $4000 difference in cost. If we assume 50:50
      > city/hwy driving, then the Civic Hybrid averages 48.5 mpg and the standard
      > Civic averages 35 mpg. If we assume you own the car for 100,000 miles,
      > then
      > you will save 795 gal. Assume gas at $2.50/gal, and that is $1988 or
      > approximately half the difference in cost.
      >
      > Now, when I was contemplating purchasing a hybrid, and when my colleague
      > actually did purchase one, gas was cheaper. Also, the hybrid tax credit
      > was
      > small and disappearing. Today the situation is different. With the new
      > energy law and tax credit extension, the $2000 credit would more than
      > cover
      > the remaining cost difference, especially when you take into account that
      > it
      > is $2000 in post-tax savings whereas gas is purchased with pre-tax
      > dollars.
      > So, yes, the hybrid makes economic sense today, whereas it didn't in the
      > period I was referring to. (The "economic sense" is artificial, since it
      > is
      > just government stimulus, but to the consumer it is real money
      > nonetheless.
      > Please don't start an argument on the true cost of oil, etc., either. I'm
      > just addressing the consumer's viewpoint).
      >
      > It should be noted that unknowns include future resale value, and
      > reliability/future maintenance costs of hybrids.
      >
      > Maybe someone else will have a different perspective on this.
      >
      > Robert Johnston
      >
      > > -----Original Message-----
      > > From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of J.
      > > P. Malone
      > > Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 9:06 AM
      > > To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
      > > Subject: RE: [hreg] what's so great about hybrids?
      > >
      > > No economic benefit to a car that gets over 50+ mpg??? Can you explain
      > > further this comment?
      > > Compared to what?
      > > The Prius is not very expensive to purchase by comparison to other
      > > vehicles,
      > > such as SUV, etc.
      > > Without being an Scientist/engineer type, I would think that the fuel
      > > dollar
      > > savings over a 5-6 year period, combined with less depreciation would be
      > > an
      > > economic benefit.
      > >
      > > Currently used Prius are selling for more that the new ones, because of
      > > the
      > > long wait to get a new one. So there is zero depreciation other than
      > > repairs over the longer term. I have a Toyota which has had minimal
      > > repairs
      > > over 10 years.
      > >
      > > Please explain, I must be missing a major point. Thanks.
      > >
      > > J. Patrick Malone
      > >
      > > -----Original Message-----
      > > From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
      > > Robert
      > > Johnston
      > > Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 7:06 AM
      > > To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
      > > Subject: RE: [hreg] what's so great about hybrids?
      > >
      > > I drove by my local Exxon yesterday and saw regular at $2.50/gal.
      > Granny
      > > will probably croak next time she tanks up.
      > >
      > > I don't know much about cars, but what was the performance like on your
      > > Civic VX? If I recall correctly, its technology gave it better
      > > performance
      > > than other small, efficient cars like the Geo Metro. But I think the
      > > hybrids today are offering even better performance, aren't they? I'm
      > > assuming that is the draw. By performance I'm referring to
      > acceleration,
      > > mostly. I have a colleague who drives a Prius and she said she bought
      > it
      > > because she liked the technology, bells and whistles. It was "cool".
      > She
      > > readily admitted there wasn't any economic benefit. She's also a
      > > scientist/engineer type.
      > >
      > > Robert Johnston
      > >
      > >
      > > > -----Original Message-----
      > > > From: hreg@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hreg@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
      > > Paul
      > > > Archer
      > > > Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2005 10:06 PM
      > > > To: Houston RE Group
      > > > Subject: [hreg] what's so great about hybrids?
      > > >
      > > > (Forgive me if I've asked this question before. I think I brought it
      > up
      > > in
      > > > another forum, but it might have been here.)
      > > >
      > > > While reading an interesting article on someone modifying his Toyota
      > > > Prius,
      > > > I noticed that according to the article, typical mileage is 45mpg.
      > > > According
      > > > to Edmunds, it's 51mpg highway / 60mpg city.
      > > > While those are very good numbers, I had a '92 Civic VX that got 48mpg
      > > > city/57mpg highway. That's not quite as good as a hybrid, but it's
      > > pretty
      > > > damn good for a regular car.
      > > > So are people enamored of hybrids because it's new technology, or
      > > because
      > > > of
      > > > a promise of much great fuel efficiency, or what? And why isn't the
      > > > technology in the '92 Civic VX being used in practically every car out
      > > > there?
      > > > And while I'm ranting, why the hell was a little granny driving a
      > Nissan
      > > > 5.6L V8 SUV on the road next to me yesterday? What is up with this
      > > "bigger
      > > > is better, so blotting out the sun huge is best" mentality?
      > > >
      > > > Paul Archer
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > ----------------------------------------------
      > > > "We Americans, we're a simple people...
      > > > but piss us off, and we'll bomb your cities."
      > > > --------------Robin Williams------------------
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
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