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[hr100] Re: trail shoe crampons

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  • Keri French
    Jennifer: I found a good pair of very lightweight crampons made by CAMP. They are made of a lightweight alloy, they have 6 points (no front points), they
    Message 1 of 13 , Mar 8, 2000
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      Jennifer: I found a good pair of very lightweight crampons made by CAMP. They
      are made of a lightweight alloy, they have 6 points (no front points), they
      are adjustable and lace up with a strong and light nylon strap. They fit under
      the front portion of your shoe and are fairly straight forward to put on. I
      have them available in a key dropbag (Ouray) in case I feel the conditions &
      time of day might warrant them. I haven't had to use them yet on the course.
      It would be wise to road test them and get real good at putting them on prior
      to HR. For availability check at any good mountaineering shop. There is
      another type out that sit under the arch of your foot and attach with some
      large rubber bands and don't cost much. They appeared to be made for short
      term use on flat ground and probably wouldn't work well in the San Juans. Good
      luck!

      Jan Gnass
      Bishop,CA

      GRoachHigh@... wrote:

      > I am debating about these little crampons that can be slipped over trail
      > shoes for the steeper or icy snow fields enroute on the Hardrock course. I
      > have inquired with many veterans of the event. Some say they have used them.
      > Some say they do not bother.
      >
      > Are they useful at HR100 and, if so, what kind should I buy? The ones I
      > looked at recently don't appear as though they could stop ones feet from
      > slipping.
      >
      > Jennifer Roach
      > Boulder, CO>
      >
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    • Keri French
      ... Jennifer: I found a good pair of very lightweight crampons made by CAMP. They are made of a lightweight alloy, they have 6 points (no front points),
      Message 2 of 13 , Mar 8, 2000
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        Keri French wrote:
        >
        > Keri French wrote:
        > >
        > > Jennifer: I found a good pair of very lightweight crampons made by CAMP. They
        > > are made of a lightweight alloy, they have 6 points (no front points), they
        > > are adjustable and lace up with a strong and light nylon strap. They fit under
        > > the front portion of your shoe and are fairly straight forward to put on. I
        > > have them available in a key dropbag (Ouray) in case I feel the conditions &
        > > time of day might warrant them. I haven't had to use them yet on the course.
        > > It would be wise to road test them and get real good at putting them on prior
        > > to HR. For availability check at any good mountaineering shop.Cost is about$40.00 There is
        > > another type out that sit under the arch of your foot and attach with some
        > > large rubber bands and don't cost much. They appeared to be made for short
        > > term use on flat ground and probably wouldn't work well in the San Juans. Good
        > > luck!
        > >
        > > Jan Gnass
        > > Bishop,CA
        > >
        > > GRoachHigh@... wrote:
        > >
        > > > I am debating about these little crampons that can be slipped over trail
        > > > shoes for the steeper or icy snow fields enroute on the Hardrock course. I
        > > > have inquired with many veterans of the event. Some say they have used them.
        > > > Some say they do not bother.
        > > >
        > > > Are they useful at HR100 and, if so, what kind should I buy? The ones I
        > > > looked at recently don't appear as though they could stop ones feet from
        > > > slipping.
        > > >
        > > > Jennifer Roach
        > > > Boulder, CO>
        > > >
        > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
        > > > To Post a message, send it to: hr100@...
        > > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: hr100-unsubscribe@...
        > > >
        > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
        > > > eGroups eLerts!
        > > > It’s easy. It’s fun. Best of all, it’s free.
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        > Jennifer: I found a good pair of very lightweight crampons made by CAMP. They
        > are made of a lightweight alloy, they have 6 points (no front points), they
        > are adjustable and lace up with a strong and light nylon strap. They fit under
        > the front portion of your shoe and are fairly straight forward to put on. I
        > have them available in a key dropbag (Ouray) in case I feel the conditions &
        > time of day might warrant them. I haven't had to use them yet on the course.
        > It would be wise to road test them and get real good at putting them on prior
        > to HR. For availability check at any good mountaineering shop. There is
        > another type out that sit under the arch of your foot and attach with some
        > large rubber bands and don't cost much. They appeared to be made for short
        > term use on flat ground and probably wouldn't work well in the San Juans. Good
        > luck!
        >
        > Jan Gnass
        > Bishop,CA
        >
        > GRoachHigh@... wrote:
        >
        > > I am debating about these little crampons that can be slipped over trail
        > > shoes for the steeper or icy snow fields enroute on the Hardrock course. I
        > > have inquired with many veterans of the event. Some say they have used them.
        > > Some say they do not bother.
        > >
        > > Are they useful at HR100 and, if so, what kind should I buy? The ones I
        > > looked at recently don't appear as though they could stop ones feet from
        > > slipping.
        > >
        > > Jennifer Roach
        > > Boulder, CO>
        > >
        > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
        > > To Post a message, send it to: hr100@...
        > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: hr100-unsubscribe@...
        > >
        > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
        > > eGroups eLerts!
        > > It’s easy. It’s fun. Best of all, it’s free.
        > > http://click.egroups.com/1/2072/1/_/382674/_/952492493/
        > >
        > > -- Create a poll/survey for your group!
        > > -- http://www.egroups.com/vote?listname=hr100&m=1
        Keri French wrote:
        >
        > Jennifer: I found a good pair of very lightweight crampons made by CAMP. They
        > are made of a lightweight alloy, they have 6 points (no front points), they
        > are adjustable and lace up with a strong and light nylon strap. They fit under
        > the front portion of your shoe and are fairly straight forward to put on. I
        > have them available in a key dropbag (Ouray) in case I feel the conditions &
        > time of day might warrant them. I haven't had to use them yet on the course.
        > It would be wise to road test them and get real good at putting them on prior
        > to HR. For availability check at any good mountaineering shop.Cost is about$40.00 There is
        > another type out that sit under the arch of your foot and attach with some
        > large rubber bands and don't cost much. They appeared to be made for short
        > term use on flat ground and probably wouldn't work well in the San Juans. Good
        > luck!
        >
        > Jan Gnass
        > Bishop,CA
        >
        > GRoachHigh@... wrote:
        >
        > > I am debating about these little crampons that can be slipped over trail
        > > shoes for the steeper or icy snow fields enroute on the Hardrock course. I
        > > have inquired with many veterans of the event. Some say they have used them.
        > > Some say they do not bother.
        > >
        > > Are they useful at HR100 and, if so, what kind should I buy? The ones I
        > > looked at recently don't appear as though they could stop ones feet from
        > > slipping.
        > >
        > > Jennifer Roach
        > > Boulder, CO>
        > >
        > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
        > > To Post a message, send it to: hr100@...
        > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: hr100-unsubscribe@...
        > >
        > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
        > > eGroups eLerts!
        > > It’s easy. It’s fun. Best of all, it’s free.
        > > http://click.egroups.com/1/2072/1/_/382674/_/952492493/
        > >
        > > -- Create a poll/survey for your group!
        > > -- http://www.egroups.com/vote?listname=hr100&m=1
        Jennifer: I found a good pair of very lightweight crampons made by CAMP. They
        are made of a lightweight alloy, they have 6 points (no front points), they
        are adjustable and lace up with a strong and light nylon strap. They fit under
        the front portion of your shoe and are fairly straight forward to put on. I
        have them available in a key dropbag (Ouray) in case I feel the conditions &
        time of day might warrant them. I haven't had to use them yet on the course.
        It would be wise to road test them and get real good at putting them on prior
        to HR. For availability check at any good mountaineering shop. There is
        another type out that sit under the arch of your foot and attach with some
        large rubber bands and don't cost much. They appeared to be made for short
        term use on flat ground and probably wouldn't work well in the San Juans. Good
        luck!

        Jan Gnass
        Bishop,CA

        GRoachHigh@... wrote:

        > I am debating about these little crampons that can be slipped over trail
        > shoes for the steeper or icy snow fields enroute on the Hardrock course. I
        > have inquired with many veterans of the event. Some say they have used them.
        > Some say they do not bother.
        >
        > Are they useful at HR100 and, if so, what kind should I buy? The ones I
        > looked at recently don't appear as though they could stop ones feet from
        > slipping.
        >
        > Jennifer Roach
        > Boulder, CO>
        >
        > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
        > To Post a message, send it to: hr100@...
        > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: hr100-unsubscribe@...
        >
        > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
        > eGroups eLerts!
        > It’s easy. It’s fun. Best of all, it’s free.
        > http://click.egroups.com/1/2072/1/_/382674/_/952492493/
        >
        > -- Create a poll/survey for your group!
        > -- http://www.egroups.com/vote?listname=hr100&m=1
      • Carl & Sally Yates
        Good idea. That Grant Swamp scree finished me off 2 yrs. ago. I was thiking of using an ice axe or one pole left at Chapman. ... From: danar@us.ibm.com
        Message 3 of 13 , Mar 8, 2000
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          Good idea. That Grant Swamp scree finished me off 2 yrs. ago. I was thiking
          of using an ice axe or one pole left at Chapman.
          -----Original Message-----
          From: danar@... <danar@...>
          To: hr100@egroups.com <hr100@egroups.com>
          Date: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 10:23 AM
          Subject: [hr100] Re: trail shoe crampons


          >
          >
          >I've carried instep crampons for the two years I was at Hardrock and didn't
          >use them one step in either year. The first year, 1996, there wasn't any
          >snow to use them on. The second year, 1997, was buried and I still didn't
          >use them. What did help in 97 was a pair of cheap, plastic, 8 inch tent
          >stakes.
          >
          >If there is snow/ice, they can help give a little extra security. Hold one
          >in each hand, jam them into the snow and hold on as you go. We are going
          >in the opposite direction as in 97 but they helped traversing the slope in
          >American basin and also on top of Divies-Little Giant. They may help in
          >those same places again and on Virgineous and Grant-Swamp. I may try them
          >on Grant-Swamp even if it is all dirt and scree. They may help limit me
          >from sliding back down the scree as much. It is disheartening after 85
          >miles to take one step forward only to slide back two steps. Maybe using
          >all fours, I can scramble up that monster a little quicker.
          >
          >As others have mentioned, there will most likely be foot holds in the snow.
          >What is nice if your concerned about sliding off the side of a mountain is
          >to have something to hold on to. They work like mini ice axes but don't
          >weigh anything.
          >
          >Dana
          >
          >Dana Roueche
          >Boulder, CO
          >mailto:danar@...
          >tieline: 419-7020, 6-7020
          >Outside line: 303-354-7020
          >
          >
          >
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        • Matt Mahoney
          ... I have full length crampons, by Cassin (also an ice axe). They are designed to work with hard boots and do not work with running shoes. The straps (metal
          Message 4 of 13 , Mar 8, 2000
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            --- Rich Limacher <TheTroubadour@...> wrote:

            > But be sure to buy the REAL kind: the black ugly,
            > sharp, 10- or 12-point genuine mountain-climbing
            > kind. You won't regret it.

            I have full length crampons, by Cassin (also an ice
            axe). They are designed to work with hard boots and
            do not work with running shoes. The straps (metal
            springs) dig into your ankle above the top of the
            shoe, and they slip off easily. I only wore them once
            while climbing the steep snowfields on Grant-Swamp
            pass during training, and ended up taking them off for
            most of the climb and never used them again.

            I also inquired about small, instep crampons at an
            outdoor shop in Leadville. They were skeptical about
            using them with running shoes. Suzy T. once commented
            that instep crampons are OK if you like running with a
            2 inch ball of ice stuck to your arch.

            I don't remember any place in Hardrock where I really
            needed crampons during the last 3 years. Even if you
            have to cross steep, frozen snowfields, there will be
            steps in it from the runners ahead of you (unless
            you're Blake Wood). Occasionally I'll pick up a
            couple of sharp rocks to use as temporary ice axes.

            Last year I wore Montrails, which have a hard toebox
            which is useful for kicking into crusty snow. My main
            beef with them is they take a long time to dry out
            after a stream crossing (about 3 hours). There is no
            way for the water to drain out from the synthetic
            leather upper, so after a crossing I would have to lie
            on my back with my feet in the air to drain them. I
            also waded many creeks barefoot when I knew there
            wouldn't be any more water for awhile. Both of these
            methods obviously waste time during a race, but so do
            wet, heavy shoes.

            I'm seriously considering wearing some Asics XC racing
            flats this year, after I test them in snow, of course.
            (Since I live in Florida, that won't be until June).
            I figure a lighter, softer shoe will dry faster. I
            already wore them at Ancient Oaks 100 without socks or
            blisters, and will try them at Barkley next month.



            =====
            -- Matt Mahoney, matmahoney@...
            __________________________________________________
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            Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
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          • John Cappis
            All: I have found the discussion about trail shoe crampons to be very interesting. I have never worn crampons during the Hardrock, but have used them on other
            Message 5 of 13 , Mar 8, 2000
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              All:

              I have found the discussion about trail shoe crampons to be very
              interesting. I have never worn crampons during the Hardrock, but have
              used them on other runs. The crampons I used were the old style 12
              point with leather straps to hold them on. They were hinged in the
              middle and by taking them apart at the hinge, I had a nice four point
              heel crampon that stayed on my shoe well. One problem was if there was
              any wet snow on the course it balled up in the crampon and pretty soon
              I was on high heels that were very slick. Great fun for glissading, but
              spooky on the steep stuff where you really wanted to stay attached.

              The last three years, the snow level on the course has been down.
              Before that, we had one year running in the counter clockwise direction
              where there was so much snow and ice from below the Virginius Mine to
              Virginius Pass that the course was routed off the road and steps had to
              be cut for about a mile.

              My advice, if you have some crampons you can try and will feel
              comfortable with, bring them along. Whether you will want to use them
              or not is dependent on what mother nature does to us between now and
              then as far as snow fall, wind, melting and freezing and who knows what
              else. I wouldn't wait until run day to see if they are going to work
              though.
            • Mitchell A Rossman
              John: I have both 12 point and 4 point crampons. The 12 point crampons are designed to be worn with either plastic or extremely thick-soled leather
              Message 6 of 13 , Mar 9, 2000
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                John:

                I have both 12 point and 4 point crampons. The 12 point crampons are
                designed to be worn with either plastic or extremely thick-soled leather
                mountaineering boots. With such a rigid sole, they work like a champ.
                However, I would never ever think of wearing them with flexible trail shoes.
                Four-point crampons are more suitable for trail shoes.

                Mitch Rossman
                Mendota Heights, MN

                -----Original Message-----
                From: John Cappis <cappis@...>
                To: hr100@... <hr100@...>
                Date: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 11:12 PM
                Subject: [hr100] Re: trail shoe crampons


                >All:
                >
                >I have found the discussion about trail shoe crampons to be very
                >interesting. I have never worn crampons during the Hardrock, but have
                >used them on other runs. The crampons I used were the old style 12
                >point with leather straps to hold them on. They were hinged in the
                >middle and by taking them apart at the hinge, I had a nice four point
                >heel crampon that stayed on my shoe well. One problem was if there was
                >any wet snow on the course it balled up in the crampon and pretty soon
                >I was on high heels that were very slick. Great fun for glissading, but
                >spooky on the steep stuff where you really wanted to stay attached.
                >
                >The last three years, the snow level on the course has been down.
                >Before that, we had one year running in the counter clockwise direction
                >where there was so much snow and ice from below the Virginius Mine to
                >Virginius Pass that the course was routed off the road and steps had to
                >be cut for about a mile.
                >
                >My advice, if you have some crampons you can try and will feel
                >comfortable with, bring them along. Whether you will want to use them
                >or not is dependent on what mother nature does to us between now and
                >then as far as snow fall, wind, melting and freezing and who knows what
                >else. I wouldn't wait until run day to see if they are going to work
                >though.
                >
                >
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              • Michael A. Farris
                Hi, I ll throw my instep crampons (not my 10-12 point full length crampons) into the bag. Fit your instep crampons carefully; the straps may need to be
                Message 7 of 13 , Mar 10, 2000
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                  Hi,
                  I'll throw my instep crampons (not my 10-12 point full length
                  crampons) into the bag. Fit your instep crampons carefully; the
                  straps may need to be modified to fit on a running shoe. To help stop
                  snow balling up under the crampon, take a Clorox bottle and cut out
                  the sides (so you have a flat piece of plastic). Stab the crampons
                  through and trim off the excess. Now figure out a way to securely
                  attach this to the crampon (duct tape?) and you have an anti-balling
                  plate.

                  If the snow is at all hard, rocks and tent stakes won't do much good
                  for self-arrest. There are only a couple of spots where the runout is
                  poor, though.

                  Mike
                  ________________________________________________________________
                  Dr. Mike Farris mfarris@...
                  Associate Professor of Biology http://www.hamline.edu/~mfarris
                  Hamline University, St. Paul, MN 55014
                  ________________________________________________________________
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