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[hr100] Re: trail shoe crampons

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  • Keri French
    Jennifer: I found a good pair of very lightweight crampons made by CAMP. They are made of a lightweight alloy, they have 6 points (no front points), they
    Message 1 of 13 , Mar 8, 2000
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      Jennifer: I found a good pair of very lightweight crampons made by CAMP. They
      are made of a lightweight alloy, they have 6 points (no front points), they
      are adjustable and lace up with a strong and light nylon strap. They fit under
      the front portion of your shoe and are fairly straight forward to put on. I
      have them available in a key dropbag (Ouray) in case I feel the conditions &
      time of day might warrant them. I haven't had to use them yet on the course.
      It would be wise to road test them and get real good at putting them on prior
      to HR. For availability check at any good mountaineering shop. There is
      another type out that sit under the arch of your foot and attach with some
      large rubber bands and don't cost much. They appeared to be made for short
      term use on flat ground and probably wouldn't work well in the San Juans. Good
      luck!

      Jan Gnass
      Bishop,CA

      GRoachHigh@... wrote:

      > I am debating about these little crampons that can be slipped over trail
      > shoes for the steeper or icy snow fields enroute on the Hardrock course. I
      > have inquired with many veterans of the event. Some say they have used them.
      > Some say they do not bother.
      >
      > Are they useful at HR100 and, if so, what kind should I buy? The ones I
      > looked at recently don't appear as though they could stop ones feet from
      > slipping.
      >
      > Jennifer Roach
      > Boulder, CO>
      >
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    • Keri French
      ... Jennifer: I found a good pair of very lightweight crampons made by CAMP. They are made of a lightweight alloy, they have 6 points (no front points),
      Message 2 of 13 , Mar 8, 2000
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        Keri French wrote:
        >
        > Keri French wrote:
        > >
        > > Jennifer: I found a good pair of very lightweight crampons made by CAMP. They
        > > are made of a lightweight alloy, they have 6 points (no front points), they
        > > are adjustable and lace up with a strong and light nylon strap. They fit under
        > > the front portion of your shoe and are fairly straight forward to put on. I
        > > have them available in a key dropbag (Ouray) in case I feel the conditions &
        > > time of day might warrant them. I haven't had to use them yet on the course.
        > > It would be wise to road test them and get real good at putting them on prior
        > > to HR. For availability check at any good mountaineering shop.Cost is about$40.00 There is
        > > another type out that sit under the arch of your foot and attach with some
        > > large rubber bands and don't cost much. They appeared to be made for short
        > > term use on flat ground and probably wouldn't work well in the San Juans. Good
        > > luck!
        > >
        > > Jan Gnass
        > > Bishop,CA
        > >
        > > GRoachHigh@... wrote:
        > >
        > > > I am debating about these little crampons that can be slipped over trail
        > > > shoes for the steeper or icy snow fields enroute on the Hardrock course. I
        > > > have inquired with many veterans of the event. Some say they have used them.
        > > > Some say they do not bother.
        > > >
        > > > Are they useful at HR100 and, if so, what kind should I buy? The ones I
        > > > looked at recently don't appear as though they could stop ones feet from
        > > > slipping.
        > > >
        > > > Jennifer Roach
        > > > Boulder, CO>
        > > >
        > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
        > > > To Post a message, send it to: hr100@...
        > > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: hr100-unsubscribe@...
        > > >
        > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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        > Jennifer: I found a good pair of very lightweight crampons made by CAMP. They
        > are made of a lightweight alloy, they have 6 points (no front points), they
        > are adjustable and lace up with a strong and light nylon strap. They fit under
        > the front portion of your shoe and are fairly straight forward to put on. I
        > have them available in a key dropbag (Ouray) in case I feel the conditions &
        > time of day might warrant them. I haven't had to use them yet on the course.
        > It would be wise to road test them and get real good at putting them on prior
        > to HR. For availability check at any good mountaineering shop. There is
        > another type out that sit under the arch of your foot and attach with some
        > large rubber bands and don't cost much. They appeared to be made for short
        > term use on flat ground and probably wouldn't work well in the San Juans. Good
        > luck!
        >
        > Jan Gnass
        > Bishop,CA
        >
        > GRoachHigh@... wrote:
        >
        > > I am debating about these little crampons that can be slipped over trail
        > > shoes for the steeper or icy snow fields enroute on the Hardrock course. I
        > > have inquired with many veterans of the event. Some say they have used them.
        > > Some say they do not bother.
        > >
        > > Are they useful at HR100 and, if so, what kind should I buy? The ones I
        > > looked at recently don't appear as though they could stop ones feet from
        > > slipping.
        > >
        > > Jennifer Roach
        > > Boulder, CO>
        > >
        > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
        > > To Post a message, send it to: hr100@...
        > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: hr100-unsubscribe@...
        > >
        > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
        > > eGroups eLerts!
        > > It’s easy. It’s fun. Best of all, it’s free.
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        Keri French wrote:
        >
        > Jennifer: I found a good pair of very lightweight crampons made by CAMP. They
        > are made of a lightweight alloy, they have 6 points (no front points), they
        > are adjustable and lace up with a strong and light nylon strap. They fit under
        > the front portion of your shoe and are fairly straight forward to put on. I
        > have them available in a key dropbag (Ouray) in case I feel the conditions &
        > time of day might warrant them. I haven't had to use them yet on the course.
        > It would be wise to road test them and get real good at putting them on prior
        > to HR. For availability check at any good mountaineering shop.Cost is about$40.00 There is
        > another type out that sit under the arch of your foot and attach with some
        > large rubber bands and don't cost much. They appeared to be made for short
        > term use on flat ground and probably wouldn't work well in the San Juans. Good
        > luck!
        >
        > Jan Gnass
        > Bishop,CA
        >
        > GRoachHigh@... wrote:
        >
        > > I am debating about these little crampons that can be slipped over trail
        > > shoes for the steeper or icy snow fields enroute on the Hardrock course. I
        > > have inquired with many veterans of the event. Some say they have used them.
        > > Some say they do not bother.
        > >
        > > Are they useful at HR100 and, if so, what kind should I buy? The ones I
        > > looked at recently don't appear as though they could stop ones feet from
        > > slipping.
        > >
        > > Jennifer Roach
        > > Boulder, CO>
        > >
        > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
        > > To Post a message, send it to: hr100@...
        > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: hr100-unsubscribe@...
        > >
        > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
        > > eGroups eLerts!
        > > It’s easy. It’s fun. Best of all, it’s free.
        > > http://click.egroups.com/1/2072/1/_/382674/_/952492493/
        > >
        > > -- Create a poll/survey for your group!
        > > -- http://www.egroups.com/vote?listname=hr100&m=1
        Jennifer: I found a good pair of very lightweight crampons made by CAMP. They
        are made of a lightweight alloy, they have 6 points (no front points), they
        are adjustable and lace up with a strong and light nylon strap. They fit under
        the front portion of your shoe and are fairly straight forward to put on. I
        have them available in a key dropbag (Ouray) in case I feel the conditions &
        time of day might warrant them. I haven't had to use them yet on the course.
        It would be wise to road test them and get real good at putting them on prior
        to HR. For availability check at any good mountaineering shop. There is
        another type out that sit under the arch of your foot and attach with some
        large rubber bands and don't cost much. They appeared to be made for short
        term use on flat ground and probably wouldn't work well in the San Juans. Good
        luck!

        Jan Gnass
        Bishop,CA

        GRoachHigh@... wrote:

        > I am debating about these little crampons that can be slipped over trail
        > shoes for the steeper or icy snow fields enroute on the Hardrock course. I
        > have inquired with many veterans of the event. Some say they have used them.
        > Some say they do not bother.
        >
        > Are they useful at HR100 and, if so, what kind should I buy? The ones I
        > looked at recently don't appear as though they could stop ones feet from
        > slipping.
        >
        > Jennifer Roach
        > Boulder, CO>
        >
        > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
        > To Post a message, send it to: hr100@...
        > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: hr100-unsubscribe@...
        >
        > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
        > eGroups eLerts!
        > It’s easy. It’s fun. Best of all, it’s free.
        > http://click.egroups.com/1/2072/1/_/382674/_/952492493/
        >
        > -- Create a poll/survey for your group!
        > -- http://www.egroups.com/vote?listname=hr100&m=1
      • danar@us.ibm.com
        I ve carried instep crampons for the two years I was at Hardrock and didn t use them one step in either year. The first year, 1996, there wasn t any snow to
        Message 3 of 13 , Mar 8, 2000
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          I've carried instep crampons for the two years I was at Hardrock and didn't
          use them one step in either year. The first year, 1996, there wasn't any
          snow to use them on. The second year, 1997, was buried and I still didn't
          use them. What did help in 97 was a pair of cheap, plastic, 8 inch tent
          stakes.

          If there is snow/ice, they can help give a little extra security. Hold one
          in each hand, jam them into the snow and hold on as you go. We are going
          in the opposite direction as in 97 but they helped traversing the slope in
          American basin and also on top of Divies-Little Giant. They may help in
          those same places again and on Virgineous and Grant-Swamp. I may try them
          on Grant-Swamp even if it is all dirt and scree. They may help limit me
          from sliding back down the scree as much. It is disheartening after 85
          miles to take one step forward only to slide back two steps. Maybe using
          all fours, I can scramble up that monster a little quicker.

          As others have mentioned, there will most likely be foot holds in the snow.
          What is nice if your concerned about sliding off the side of a mountain is
          to have something to hold on to. They work like mini ice axes but don't
          weigh anything.

          Dana

          Dana Roueche
          Boulder, CO
          mailto:danar@...
          tieline: 419-7020, 6-7020
          Outside line: 303-354-7020
        • Blake P. Wood
          I carried instep crampons in 97 and 98. In 97 (a heavy snow year) I used them through American Basin in the middle of the night, and in 98 I used them
          Message 4 of 13 , Mar 8, 2000
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            I carried instep crampons in '97 and '98. In '97 (a heavy snow
            year) I used them through American Basin in the middle of the
            night, and in '98 I used them ascending the final pitch of
            Virginius just before dawn. Both times they gave me some piece
            of mind, but other runners without them seemed to be doing just
            fine, and I lost a bit of time getting them on and off. In
            American Basin they were a problem because I couldn't easily run
            on the rock patches with them, so it was either stick to the
            snow or keep taking them on and off. I don't plan to use them
            again, although I will probably throw them in my bag to take to
            Silverton, just in case, as long as I already have them.

            Although I didn't use one, I the tent stake that Dana mentioned
            is probably a better solution.

            Blake P. Wood
            Physics Div., Plasma Physics Group P-24, MS-E526,
            Los Alamos Nat'l Lab, Los Alamos NM 87545
            (505) 665-6524 Fax: (505) 665-3552 bwood@...
            http://microserf.lanl.gov/bpw/bpwplan.html
          • Carl & Sally Yates
            Good idea. That Grant Swamp scree finished me off 2 yrs. ago. I was thiking of using an ice axe or one pole left at Chapman. ... From: danar@us.ibm.com
            Message 5 of 13 , Mar 8, 2000
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              Good idea. That Grant Swamp scree finished me off 2 yrs. ago. I was thiking
              of using an ice axe or one pole left at Chapman.
              -----Original Message-----
              From: danar@... <danar@...>
              To: hr100@egroups.com <hr100@egroups.com>
              Date: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 10:23 AM
              Subject: [hr100] Re: trail shoe crampons


              >
              >
              >I've carried instep crampons for the two years I was at Hardrock and didn't
              >use them one step in either year. The first year, 1996, there wasn't any
              >snow to use them on. The second year, 1997, was buried and I still didn't
              >use them. What did help in 97 was a pair of cheap, plastic, 8 inch tent
              >stakes.
              >
              >If there is snow/ice, they can help give a little extra security. Hold one
              >in each hand, jam them into the snow and hold on as you go. We are going
              >in the opposite direction as in 97 but they helped traversing the slope in
              >American basin and also on top of Divies-Little Giant. They may help in
              >those same places again and on Virgineous and Grant-Swamp. I may try them
              >on Grant-Swamp even if it is all dirt and scree. They may help limit me
              >from sliding back down the scree as much. It is disheartening after 85
              >miles to take one step forward only to slide back two steps. Maybe using
              >all fours, I can scramble up that monster a little quicker.
              >
              >As others have mentioned, there will most likely be foot holds in the snow.
              >What is nice if your concerned about sliding off the side of a mountain is
              >to have something to hold on to. They work like mini ice axes but don't
              >weigh anything.
              >
              >Dana
              >
              >Dana Roueche
              >Boulder, CO
              >mailto:danar@...
              >tieline: 419-7020, 6-7020
              >Outside line: 303-354-7020
              >
              >
              >
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            • Matt Mahoney
              ... I have full length crampons, by Cassin (also an ice axe). They are designed to work with hard boots and do not work with running shoes. The straps (metal
              Message 6 of 13 , Mar 8, 2000
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                --- Rich Limacher <TheTroubadour@...> wrote:

                > But be sure to buy the REAL kind: the black ugly,
                > sharp, 10- or 12-point genuine mountain-climbing
                > kind. You won't regret it.

                I have full length crampons, by Cassin (also an ice
                axe). They are designed to work with hard boots and
                do not work with running shoes. The straps (metal
                springs) dig into your ankle above the top of the
                shoe, and they slip off easily. I only wore them once
                while climbing the steep snowfields on Grant-Swamp
                pass during training, and ended up taking them off for
                most of the climb and never used them again.

                I also inquired about small, instep crampons at an
                outdoor shop in Leadville. They were skeptical about
                using them with running shoes. Suzy T. once commented
                that instep crampons are OK if you like running with a
                2 inch ball of ice stuck to your arch.

                I don't remember any place in Hardrock where I really
                needed crampons during the last 3 years. Even if you
                have to cross steep, frozen snowfields, there will be
                steps in it from the runners ahead of you (unless
                you're Blake Wood). Occasionally I'll pick up a
                couple of sharp rocks to use as temporary ice axes.

                Last year I wore Montrails, which have a hard toebox
                which is useful for kicking into crusty snow. My main
                beef with them is they take a long time to dry out
                after a stream crossing (about 3 hours). There is no
                way for the water to drain out from the synthetic
                leather upper, so after a crossing I would have to lie
                on my back with my feet in the air to drain them. I
                also waded many creeks barefoot when I knew there
                wouldn't be any more water for awhile. Both of these
                methods obviously waste time during a race, but so do
                wet, heavy shoes.

                I'm seriously considering wearing some Asics XC racing
                flats this year, after I test them in snow, of course.
                (Since I live in Florida, that won't be until June).
                I figure a lighter, softer shoe will dry faster. I
                already wore them at Ancient Oaks 100 without socks or
                blisters, and will try them at Barkley next month.



                =====
                -- Matt Mahoney, matmahoney@...
                __________________________________________________
                Do You Yahoo!?
                Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
                http://im.yahoo.com
              • John Cappis
                All: I have found the discussion about trail shoe crampons to be very interesting. I have never worn crampons during the Hardrock, but have used them on other
                Message 7 of 13 , Mar 8, 2000
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                  All:

                  I have found the discussion about trail shoe crampons to be very
                  interesting. I have never worn crampons during the Hardrock, but have
                  used them on other runs. The crampons I used were the old style 12
                  point with leather straps to hold them on. They were hinged in the
                  middle and by taking them apart at the hinge, I had a nice four point
                  heel crampon that stayed on my shoe well. One problem was if there was
                  any wet snow on the course it balled up in the crampon and pretty soon
                  I was on high heels that were very slick. Great fun for glissading, but
                  spooky on the steep stuff where you really wanted to stay attached.

                  The last three years, the snow level on the course has been down.
                  Before that, we had one year running in the counter clockwise direction
                  where there was so much snow and ice from below the Virginius Mine to
                  Virginius Pass that the course was routed off the road and steps had to
                  be cut for about a mile.

                  My advice, if you have some crampons you can try and will feel
                  comfortable with, bring them along. Whether you will want to use them
                  or not is dependent on what mother nature does to us between now and
                  then as far as snow fall, wind, melting and freezing and who knows what
                  else. I wouldn't wait until run day to see if they are going to work
                  though.
                • Mitchell A Rossman
                  John: I have both 12 point and 4 point crampons. The 12 point crampons are designed to be worn with either plastic or extremely thick-soled leather
                  Message 8 of 13 , Mar 9, 2000
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                    John:

                    I have both 12 point and 4 point crampons. The 12 point crampons are
                    designed to be worn with either plastic or extremely thick-soled leather
                    mountaineering boots. With such a rigid sole, they work like a champ.
                    However, I would never ever think of wearing them with flexible trail shoes.
                    Four-point crampons are more suitable for trail shoes.

                    Mitch Rossman
                    Mendota Heights, MN

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: John Cappis <cappis@...>
                    To: hr100@... <hr100@...>
                    Date: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 11:12 PM
                    Subject: [hr100] Re: trail shoe crampons


                    >All:
                    >
                    >I have found the discussion about trail shoe crampons to be very
                    >interesting. I have never worn crampons during the Hardrock, but have
                    >used them on other runs. The crampons I used were the old style 12
                    >point with leather straps to hold them on. They were hinged in the
                    >middle and by taking them apart at the hinge, I had a nice four point
                    >heel crampon that stayed on my shoe well. One problem was if there was
                    >any wet snow on the course it balled up in the crampon and pretty soon
                    >I was on high heels that were very slick. Great fun for glissading, but
                    >spooky on the steep stuff where you really wanted to stay attached.
                    >
                    >The last three years, the snow level on the course has been down.
                    >Before that, we had one year running in the counter clockwise direction
                    >where there was so much snow and ice from below the Virginius Mine to
                    >Virginius Pass that the course was routed off the road and steps had to
                    >be cut for about a mile.
                    >
                    >My advice, if you have some crampons you can try and will feel
                    >comfortable with, bring them along. Whether you will want to use them
                    >or not is dependent on what mother nature does to us between now and
                    >then as far as snow fall, wind, melting and freezing and who knows what
                    >else. I wouldn't wait until run day to see if they are going to work
                    >though.
                    >
                    >
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                  • Michael A. Farris
                    Hi, I ll throw my instep crampons (not my 10-12 point full length crampons) into the bag. Fit your instep crampons carefully; the straps may need to be
                    Message 9 of 13 , Mar 10, 2000
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                      Hi,
                      I'll throw my instep crampons (not my 10-12 point full length
                      crampons) into the bag. Fit your instep crampons carefully; the
                      straps may need to be modified to fit on a running shoe. To help stop
                      snow balling up under the crampon, take a Clorox bottle and cut out
                      the sides (so you have a flat piece of plastic). Stab the crampons
                      through and trim off the excess. Now figure out a way to securely
                      attach this to the crampon (duct tape?) and you have an anti-balling
                      plate.

                      If the snow is at all hard, rocks and tent stakes won't do much good
                      for self-arrest. There are only a couple of spots where the runout is
                      poor, though.

                      Mike
                      ________________________________________________________________
                      Dr. Mike Farris mfarris@...
                      Associate Professor of Biology http://www.hamline.edu/~mfarris
                      Hamline University, St. Paul, MN 55014
                      ________________________________________________________________
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