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[hr100] Re: trail shoe crampons

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  • Keri French
    Jennifer: I found a good pair of very lightweight crampons made by CAMP. They are made of a lightweight alloy, they have 6 points (no front points), they
    Message 1 of 13 , Mar 8, 2000
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      Jennifer: I found a good pair of very lightweight crampons made by CAMP. They
      are made of a lightweight alloy, they have 6 points (no front points), they
      are adjustable and lace up with a strong and light nylon strap. They fit under
      the front portion of your shoe and are fairly straight forward to put on. I
      have them available in a key dropbag (Ouray) in case I feel the conditions &
      time of day might warrant them. I haven't had to use them yet on the course.
      It would be wise to road test them and get real good at putting them on prior
      to HR. For availability check at any good mountaineering shop. There is
      another type out that sit under the arch of your foot and attach with some
      large rubber bands and don't cost much. They appeared to be made for short
      term use on flat ground and probably wouldn't work well in the San Juans. Good
      luck!

      Jan Gnass
      Bishop,CA

      GRoachHigh@... wrote:

      > I am debating about these little crampons that can be slipped over trail
      > shoes for the steeper or icy snow fields enroute on the Hardrock course. I
      > have inquired with many veterans of the event. Some say they have used them.
      > Some say they do not bother.
      >
      > Are they useful at HR100 and, if so, what kind should I buy? The ones I
      > looked at recently don't appear as though they could stop ones feet from
      > slipping.
      >
      > Jennifer Roach
      > Boulder, CO>
      >
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    • Keri French
      ... Jennifer: I found a good pair of very lightweight crampons made by CAMP. They are made of a lightweight alloy, they have 6 points (no front points),
      Message 2 of 13 , Mar 8, 2000
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        Keri French wrote:
        >
        > Keri French wrote:
        > >
        > > Jennifer: I found a good pair of very lightweight crampons made by CAMP. They
        > > are made of a lightweight alloy, they have 6 points (no front points), they
        > > are adjustable and lace up with a strong and light nylon strap. They fit under
        > > the front portion of your shoe and are fairly straight forward to put on. I
        > > have them available in a key dropbag (Ouray) in case I feel the conditions &
        > > time of day might warrant them. I haven't had to use them yet on the course.
        > > It would be wise to road test them and get real good at putting them on prior
        > > to HR. For availability check at any good mountaineering shop.Cost is about$40.00 There is
        > > another type out that sit under the arch of your foot and attach with some
        > > large rubber bands and don't cost much. They appeared to be made for short
        > > term use on flat ground and probably wouldn't work well in the San Juans. Good
        > > luck!
        > >
        > > Jan Gnass
        > > Bishop,CA
        > >
        > > GRoachHigh@... wrote:
        > >
        > > > I am debating about these little crampons that can be slipped over trail
        > > > shoes for the steeper or icy snow fields enroute on the Hardrock course. I
        > > > have inquired with many veterans of the event. Some say they have used them.
        > > > Some say they do not bother.
        > > >
        > > > Are they useful at HR100 and, if so, what kind should I buy? The ones I
        > > > looked at recently don't appear as though they could stop ones feet from
        > > > slipping.
        > > >
        > > > Jennifer Roach
        > > > Boulder, CO>
        > > >
        > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
        > > > To Post a message, send it to: hr100@...
        > > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: hr100-unsubscribe@...
        > > >
        > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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        > Jennifer: I found a good pair of very lightweight crampons made by CAMP. They
        > are made of a lightweight alloy, they have 6 points (no front points), they
        > are adjustable and lace up with a strong and light nylon strap. They fit under
        > the front portion of your shoe and are fairly straight forward to put on. I
        > have them available in a key dropbag (Ouray) in case I feel the conditions &
        > time of day might warrant them. I haven't had to use them yet on the course.
        > It would be wise to road test them and get real good at putting them on prior
        > to HR. For availability check at any good mountaineering shop. There is
        > another type out that sit under the arch of your foot and attach with some
        > large rubber bands and don't cost much. They appeared to be made for short
        > term use on flat ground and probably wouldn't work well in the San Juans. Good
        > luck!
        >
        > Jan Gnass
        > Bishop,CA
        >
        > GRoachHigh@... wrote:
        >
        > > I am debating about these little crampons that can be slipped over trail
        > > shoes for the steeper or icy snow fields enroute on the Hardrock course. I
        > > have inquired with many veterans of the event. Some say they have used them.
        > > Some say they do not bother.
        > >
        > > Are they useful at HR100 and, if so, what kind should I buy? The ones I
        > > looked at recently don't appear as though they could stop ones feet from
        > > slipping.
        > >
        > > Jennifer Roach
        > > Boulder, CO>
        > >
        > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
        > > To Post a message, send it to: hr100@...
        > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: hr100-unsubscribe@...
        > >
        > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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        Keri French wrote:
        >
        > Jennifer: I found a good pair of very lightweight crampons made by CAMP. They
        > are made of a lightweight alloy, they have 6 points (no front points), they
        > are adjustable and lace up with a strong and light nylon strap. They fit under
        > the front portion of your shoe and are fairly straight forward to put on. I
        > have them available in a key dropbag (Ouray) in case I feel the conditions &
        > time of day might warrant them. I haven't had to use them yet on the course.
        > It would be wise to road test them and get real good at putting them on prior
        > to HR. For availability check at any good mountaineering shop.Cost is about$40.00 There is
        > another type out that sit under the arch of your foot and attach with some
        > large rubber bands and don't cost much. They appeared to be made for short
        > term use on flat ground and probably wouldn't work well in the San Juans. Good
        > luck!
        >
        > Jan Gnass
        > Bishop,CA
        >
        > GRoachHigh@... wrote:
        >
        > > I am debating about these little crampons that can be slipped over trail
        > > shoes for the steeper or icy snow fields enroute on the Hardrock course. I
        > > have inquired with many veterans of the event. Some say they have used them.
        > > Some say they do not bother.
        > >
        > > Are they useful at HR100 and, if so, what kind should I buy? The ones I
        > > looked at recently don't appear as though they could stop ones feet from
        > > slipping.
        > >
        > > Jennifer Roach
        > > Boulder, CO>
        > >
        > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
        > > To Post a message, send it to: hr100@...
        > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: hr100-unsubscribe@...
        > >
        > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
        > > eGroups eLerts!
        > > It’s easy. It’s fun. Best of all, it’s free.
        > > http://click.egroups.com/1/2072/1/_/382674/_/952492493/
        > >
        > > -- Create a poll/survey for your group!
        > > -- http://www.egroups.com/vote?listname=hr100&m=1
        Jennifer: I found a good pair of very lightweight crampons made by CAMP. They
        are made of a lightweight alloy, they have 6 points (no front points), they
        are adjustable and lace up with a strong and light nylon strap. They fit under
        the front portion of your shoe and are fairly straight forward to put on. I
        have them available in a key dropbag (Ouray) in case I feel the conditions &
        time of day might warrant them. I haven't had to use them yet on the course.
        It would be wise to road test them and get real good at putting them on prior
        to HR. For availability check at any good mountaineering shop. There is
        another type out that sit under the arch of your foot and attach with some
        large rubber bands and don't cost much. They appeared to be made for short
        term use on flat ground and probably wouldn't work well in the San Juans. Good
        luck!

        Jan Gnass
        Bishop,CA

        GRoachHigh@... wrote:

        > I am debating about these little crampons that can be slipped over trail
        > shoes for the steeper or icy snow fields enroute on the Hardrock course. I
        > have inquired with many veterans of the event. Some say they have used them.
        > Some say they do not bother.
        >
        > Are they useful at HR100 and, if so, what kind should I buy? The ones I
        > looked at recently don't appear as though they could stop ones feet from
        > slipping.
        >
        > Jennifer Roach
        > Boulder, CO>
        >
        > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
        > To Post a message, send it to: hr100@...
        > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: hr100-unsubscribe@...
        >
        > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
        > eGroups eLerts!
        > It’s easy. It’s fun. Best of all, it’s free.
        > http://click.egroups.com/1/2072/1/_/382674/_/952492493/
        >
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        > -- http://www.egroups.com/vote?listname=hr100&m=1
      • Roger Wiegand
        I would never want crampons on the steep snowfields. The slopes generally have good runouts, and there will be plenty of steps kicked into the slope, even if
        Message 3 of 13 , Mar 8, 2000
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          I would never want crampons on the steep snowfields. The slopes generally
          have good runouts, and there will be plenty of steps kicked into the slope,
          even if I arrive after it has cooled off and hardened. (We will be
          ascending, not descending, the serious slopes this year. Moreover, we'll be
          past Grant-Swamp -- the last major challenge -- before nightfall on the
          second day.) The only terrain where little instep crampons (the only kind I
          have ever considered carrying) might be useful is on verglas. This was a
          problem for the faster runners in 1997 on Handies, but by the time I arrived
          it was gloriously warm and sunny, and the rocks were dry. I hope to be off
          the upper reaches of Handies by nightfall this year, though it might be
          possible to be on the top of Handies after sunset and still make it in under
          48 hours (barely). Once again, I will leave the little instep crampons in my
          drawer.

          Roger




          Roger A. Wiegand
          http://www.math.unl.edu/~rwiegand
        • Rich Limacher
          Buy em! But be sure to buy the REAL kind: the black ugly, sharp, 10- or 12-point genuine mountain-climbing kind. You won t regret it. I ve bought mine! And
          Message 4 of 13 , Mar 8, 2000
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            Buy 'em!

            But be sure to buy the REAL kind: the black ugly, sharp,
            10- or 12-point genuine mountain-climbing kind. You won't
            regret it.

            I've bought mine! And they're fabulous. With these suckers
            on, I don't believe I could fall off a glacier even if it
            stood straight up! (And at THIS race, trust me, they do.)

            Last year I was such a novice out there, it was a joke. I
            didn't even know what "crampons" are. And, of course, I
            DNF'd.

            This year, I am armed, footed, and dangerous. I got the
            gear, and I'll be ready. I advise without hesitation that
            everyone else "get in gear," too. (I'll bet the veterans
            who said they "do not bother" are also the ones who run
            races barefoot, use no pacers or dropbags, and survive in
            the wild for weeks on end eating bark.) :-)

            But from my more sissified perspective, Hardrock is no joke.
            It isn't kidding. So don't you be, either.

            Never mind the cheap junk you can mail-order from Miles
            Kimball. Go to REI or The North Face and buy the real
            thing. Crampons are EXPENSIVE. Mine set me back over a
            hundred bucks. But, hey, what's your life worth to you?

            I figure mine's valued at roughly $110, so I have nine more
            dollars to play with.

            Go shopping, Jennifer! See you out there in just four more
            months!

            Rich Limacher
            TheTroubadour@...


            ----- Original Message -----
            From: <GRoachHigh@...>
            To: <hr100@egroups.com>
            Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2000 11:14 PM
            Subject: [hr100] trail shoe crampons


            I am debating about these little crampons that can be
            slipped over trail
            shoes for the steeper or icy snow fields enroute on the
            Hardrock course. I
            have inquired with many veterans of the event. Some say they
            have used them.
            Some say they do not bother.

            Are they useful at HR100 and, if so, what kind should I buy?
            The ones I
            looked at recently don't appear as though they could stop
            ones feet from
            slipping.


            Jennifer Roach
            Boulder, CO>

            ------------------------------------------------------------
            ------------
          • Carl & Sally Yates
            Roger- Before nightfall the 2nd day? Goodluck! I ve lost at least one of every pair I ve carried. Now I have one I didn t lose and one I picked up someone else
            Message 5 of 13 , Mar 8, 2000
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              Roger- Before nightfall the 2nd day? Goodluck! I've lost at least one of
              every pair I've carried. Now I have one I didn't lose and one I picked up
              someone else lost. There may be convenient ones to carry and wear out there
              somewhere but I haven't found them. Say hello to Sylvia. Carl
              -----Original Message-----
              From: Roger Wiegand <rwiegand@...>
              To: hr100@egroups.com <hr100@egroups.com>
              Date: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 8:23 AM
              Subject: [hr100] Re: trail shoe crampons


              >I would never want crampons on the steep snowfields. The slopes generally
              >have good runouts, and there will be plenty of steps kicked into the slope,
              >even if I arrive after it has cooled off and hardened. (We will be
              >ascending, not descending, the serious slopes this year. Moreover, we'll
              be
              >past Grant-Swamp -- the last major challenge -- before nightfall on the
              >second day.) The only terrain where little instep crampons (the only kind
              I
              >have ever considered carrying) might be useful is on verglas. This was a
              >problem for the faster runners in 1997 on Handies, but by the time I
              arrived
              >it was gloriously warm and sunny, and the rocks were dry. I hope to be off
              >the upper reaches of Handies by nightfall this year, though it might be
              >possible to be on the top of Handies after sunset and still make it in
              under
              >48 hours (barely). Once again, I will leave the little instep crampons in
              my
              >drawer.
              >
              >Roger
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >Roger A. Wiegand
              >http://www.math.unl.edu/~rwiegand
              >
              >
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            • danar@us.ibm.com
              I ve carried instep crampons for the two years I was at Hardrock and didn t use them one step in either year. The first year, 1996, there wasn t any snow to
              Message 6 of 13 , Mar 8, 2000
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                I've carried instep crampons for the two years I was at Hardrock and didn't
                use them one step in either year. The first year, 1996, there wasn't any
                snow to use them on. The second year, 1997, was buried and I still didn't
                use them. What did help in 97 was a pair of cheap, plastic, 8 inch tent
                stakes.

                If there is snow/ice, they can help give a little extra security. Hold one
                in each hand, jam them into the snow and hold on as you go. We are going
                in the opposite direction as in 97 but they helped traversing the slope in
                American basin and also on top of Divies-Little Giant. They may help in
                those same places again and on Virgineous and Grant-Swamp. I may try them
                on Grant-Swamp even if it is all dirt and scree. They may help limit me
                from sliding back down the scree as much. It is disheartening after 85
                miles to take one step forward only to slide back two steps. Maybe using
                all fours, I can scramble up that monster a little quicker.

                As others have mentioned, there will most likely be foot holds in the snow.
                What is nice if your concerned about sliding off the side of a mountain is
                to have something to hold on to. They work like mini ice axes but don't
                weigh anything.

                Dana

                Dana Roueche
                Boulder, CO
                mailto:danar@...
                tieline: 419-7020, 6-7020
                Outside line: 303-354-7020
              • Blake P. Wood
                I carried instep crampons in 97 and 98. In 97 (a heavy snow year) I used them through American Basin in the middle of the night, and in 98 I used them
                Message 7 of 13 , Mar 8, 2000
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                  I carried instep crampons in '97 and '98. In '97 (a heavy snow
                  year) I used them through American Basin in the middle of the
                  night, and in '98 I used them ascending the final pitch of
                  Virginius just before dawn. Both times they gave me some piece
                  of mind, but other runners without them seemed to be doing just
                  fine, and I lost a bit of time getting them on and off. In
                  American Basin they were a problem because I couldn't easily run
                  on the rock patches with them, so it was either stick to the
                  snow or keep taking them on and off. I don't plan to use them
                  again, although I will probably throw them in my bag to take to
                  Silverton, just in case, as long as I already have them.

                  Although I didn't use one, I the tent stake that Dana mentioned
                  is probably a better solution.

                  Blake P. Wood
                  Physics Div., Plasma Physics Group P-24, MS-E526,
                  Los Alamos Nat'l Lab, Los Alamos NM 87545
                  (505) 665-6524 Fax: (505) 665-3552 bwood@...
                  http://microserf.lanl.gov/bpw/bpwplan.html
                • Carl & Sally Yates
                  Good idea. That Grant Swamp scree finished me off 2 yrs. ago. I was thiking of using an ice axe or one pole left at Chapman. ... From: danar@us.ibm.com
                  Message 8 of 13 , Mar 8, 2000
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                    Good idea. That Grant Swamp scree finished me off 2 yrs. ago. I was thiking
                    of using an ice axe or one pole left at Chapman.
                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: danar@... <danar@...>
                    To: hr100@egroups.com <hr100@egroups.com>
                    Date: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 10:23 AM
                    Subject: [hr100] Re: trail shoe crampons


                    >
                    >
                    >I've carried instep crampons for the two years I was at Hardrock and didn't
                    >use them one step in either year. The first year, 1996, there wasn't any
                    >snow to use them on. The second year, 1997, was buried and I still didn't
                    >use them. What did help in 97 was a pair of cheap, plastic, 8 inch tent
                    >stakes.
                    >
                    >If there is snow/ice, they can help give a little extra security. Hold one
                    >in each hand, jam them into the snow and hold on as you go. We are going
                    >in the opposite direction as in 97 but they helped traversing the slope in
                    >American basin and also on top of Divies-Little Giant. They may help in
                    >those same places again and on Virgineous and Grant-Swamp. I may try them
                    >on Grant-Swamp even if it is all dirt and scree. They may help limit me
                    >from sliding back down the scree as much. It is disheartening after 85
                    >miles to take one step forward only to slide back two steps. Maybe using
                    >all fours, I can scramble up that monster a little quicker.
                    >
                    >As others have mentioned, there will most likely be foot holds in the snow.
                    >What is nice if your concerned about sliding off the side of a mountain is
                    >to have something to hold on to. They work like mini ice axes but don't
                    >weigh anything.
                    >
                    >Dana
                    >
                    >Dana Roueche
                    >Boulder, CO
                    >mailto:danar@...
                    >tieline: 419-7020, 6-7020
                    >Outside line: 303-354-7020
                    >
                    >
                    >
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                  • Matt Mahoney
                    ... I have full length crampons, by Cassin (also an ice axe). They are designed to work with hard boots and do not work with running shoes. The straps (metal
                    Message 9 of 13 , Mar 8, 2000
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                      --- Rich Limacher <TheTroubadour@...> wrote:

                      > But be sure to buy the REAL kind: the black ugly,
                      > sharp, 10- or 12-point genuine mountain-climbing
                      > kind. You won't regret it.

                      I have full length crampons, by Cassin (also an ice
                      axe). They are designed to work with hard boots and
                      do not work with running shoes. The straps (metal
                      springs) dig into your ankle above the top of the
                      shoe, and they slip off easily. I only wore them once
                      while climbing the steep snowfields on Grant-Swamp
                      pass during training, and ended up taking them off for
                      most of the climb and never used them again.

                      I also inquired about small, instep crampons at an
                      outdoor shop in Leadville. They were skeptical about
                      using them with running shoes. Suzy T. once commented
                      that instep crampons are OK if you like running with a
                      2 inch ball of ice stuck to your arch.

                      I don't remember any place in Hardrock where I really
                      needed crampons during the last 3 years. Even if you
                      have to cross steep, frozen snowfields, there will be
                      steps in it from the runners ahead of you (unless
                      you're Blake Wood). Occasionally I'll pick up a
                      couple of sharp rocks to use as temporary ice axes.

                      Last year I wore Montrails, which have a hard toebox
                      which is useful for kicking into crusty snow. My main
                      beef with them is they take a long time to dry out
                      after a stream crossing (about 3 hours). There is no
                      way for the water to drain out from the synthetic
                      leather upper, so after a crossing I would have to lie
                      on my back with my feet in the air to drain them. I
                      also waded many creeks barefoot when I knew there
                      wouldn't be any more water for awhile. Both of these
                      methods obviously waste time during a race, but so do
                      wet, heavy shoes.

                      I'm seriously considering wearing some Asics XC racing
                      flats this year, after I test them in snow, of course.
                      (Since I live in Florida, that won't be until June).
                      I figure a lighter, softer shoe will dry faster. I
                      already wore them at Ancient Oaks 100 without socks or
                      blisters, and will try them at Barkley next month.



                      =====
                      -- Matt Mahoney, matmahoney@...
                      __________________________________________________
                      Do You Yahoo!?
                      Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
                      http://im.yahoo.com
                    • John Cappis
                      All: I have found the discussion about trail shoe crampons to be very interesting. I have never worn crampons during the Hardrock, but have used them on other
                      Message 10 of 13 , Mar 8, 2000
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                        All:

                        I have found the discussion about trail shoe crampons to be very
                        interesting. I have never worn crampons during the Hardrock, but have
                        used them on other runs. The crampons I used were the old style 12
                        point with leather straps to hold them on. They were hinged in the
                        middle and by taking them apart at the hinge, I had a nice four point
                        heel crampon that stayed on my shoe well. One problem was if there was
                        any wet snow on the course it balled up in the crampon and pretty soon
                        I was on high heels that were very slick. Great fun for glissading, but
                        spooky on the steep stuff where you really wanted to stay attached.

                        The last three years, the snow level on the course has been down.
                        Before that, we had one year running in the counter clockwise direction
                        where there was so much snow and ice from below the Virginius Mine to
                        Virginius Pass that the course was routed off the road and steps had to
                        be cut for about a mile.

                        My advice, if you have some crampons you can try and will feel
                        comfortable with, bring them along. Whether you will want to use them
                        or not is dependent on what mother nature does to us between now and
                        then as far as snow fall, wind, melting and freezing and who knows what
                        else. I wouldn't wait until run day to see if they are going to work
                        though.
                      • Mitchell A Rossman
                        John: I have both 12 point and 4 point crampons. The 12 point crampons are designed to be worn with either plastic or extremely thick-soled leather
                        Message 11 of 13 , Mar 9, 2000
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                          John:

                          I have both 12 point and 4 point crampons. The 12 point crampons are
                          designed to be worn with either plastic or extremely thick-soled leather
                          mountaineering boots. With such a rigid sole, they work like a champ.
                          However, I would never ever think of wearing them with flexible trail shoes.
                          Four-point crampons are more suitable for trail shoes.

                          Mitch Rossman
                          Mendota Heights, MN

                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: John Cappis <cappis@...>
                          To: hr100@... <hr100@...>
                          Date: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 11:12 PM
                          Subject: [hr100] Re: trail shoe crampons


                          >All:
                          >
                          >I have found the discussion about trail shoe crampons to be very
                          >interesting. I have never worn crampons during the Hardrock, but have
                          >used them on other runs. The crampons I used were the old style 12
                          >point with leather straps to hold them on. They were hinged in the
                          >middle and by taking them apart at the hinge, I had a nice four point
                          >heel crampon that stayed on my shoe well. One problem was if there was
                          >any wet snow on the course it balled up in the crampon and pretty soon
                          >I was on high heels that were very slick. Great fun for glissading, but
                          >spooky on the steep stuff where you really wanted to stay attached.
                          >
                          >The last three years, the snow level on the course has been down.
                          >Before that, we had one year running in the counter clockwise direction
                          >where there was so much snow and ice from below the Virginius Mine to
                          >Virginius Pass that the course was routed off the road and steps had to
                          >be cut for about a mile.
                          >
                          >My advice, if you have some crampons you can try and will feel
                          >comfortable with, bring them along. Whether you will want to use them
                          >or not is dependent on what mother nature does to us between now and
                          >then as far as snow fall, wind, melting and freezing and who knows what
                          >else. I wouldn't wait until run day to see if they are going to work
                          >though.
                          >
                          >
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                        • Michael A. Farris
                          Hi, I ll throw my instep crampons (not my 10-12 point full length crampons) into the bag. Fit your instep crampons carefully; the straps may need to be
                          Message 12 of 13 , Mar 10, 2000
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                            Hi,
                            I'll throw my instep crampons (not my 10-12 point full length
                            crampons) into the bag. Fit your instep crampons carefully; the
                            straps may need to be modified to fit on a running shoe. To help stop
                            snow balling up under the crampon, take a Clorox bottle and cut out
                            the sides (so you have a flat piece of plastic). Stab the crampons
                            through and trim off the excess. Now figure out a way to securely
                            attach this to the crampon (duct tape?) and you have an anti-balling
                            plate.

                            If the snow is at all hard, rocks and tent stakes won't do much good
                            for self-arrest. There are only a couple of spots where the runout is
                            poor, though.

                            Mike
                            ________________________________________________________________
                            Dr. Mike Farris mfarris@...
                            Associate Professor of Biology http://www.hamline.edu/~mfarris
                            Hamline University, St. Paul, MN 55014
                            ________________________________________________________________
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