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RE: [hr100] Hardrock Hundred Clarification

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  • Matt Mahoney
    Sorry if I sounded self-centered in my last post. I guess I am. I didn t mean to insult everyone that stays in a hotel in Silverton. I camp because I m
    Message 1 of 21 , Nov 13, 2001
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      Sorry if I sounded self-centered in my last post. I
      guess I am. I didn't mean to insult everyone that
      stays in a hotel in Silverton. I camp because I'm
      cheap.

      I don't want to pay a higher entry fee at Hardrock.
      What I am trying to say is there isn't any painless
      way to limit entries. We could have everyone with
      last names starting with A through L run next year and
      M through Z in 2003. I know that's arbitrary, but so
      is every other method that anyone has come up with.
      Somebody isn't going to like it.

      I enjoy Hardrock because it's a chance to see my
      friends, although I seem to have fewer of them now.


      =====
      -- Matt Mahoney, matmahoney@...

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    • Stevan Pattillo
      Jimmy, Oh come on, try not to be so hard on Matt. He is initiating a discussion not asking for an on-line personnality inventory and analysis. Any discussion
      Message 2 of 21 , Nov 13, 2001
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        Jimmy, Oh come on, try not to be so hard on Matt. He is initiating a
        discussion not asking for an on-line personnality inventory and analysis.
        Any discussion the entry proceedure is bound to be contentious, it needs to
        be thought provoking if we are to come up with any new approaches. Most of
        us are too far gone to be helped by any drive-up psychoanalysis. That is
        what makes us such a "colorful" bunch, and possibly why we enjoy each
        other's company at Hardrock.
        As an aside; I'm glad I'm not the person who has to decide just how many
        entries and the selection criteria that allows most of us to qualify for
        what is beginning to look more and more like a day out program for a
        comunity based mental health program.
      • dale garland
        Hi Everyone Dick Huff has asked what my thoughts on what has been said the past couple of days so here goes! I know I am speaking for all of us involved in the
        Message 3 of 21 , Nov 13, 2001
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          Hi Everyone
          Dick Huff has asked what my thoughts on what has been said the past
          couple of days so here goes! I know I am speaking for all of us involved
          in the HRH when I say we are honored that this run means so much to
          people. The people involved with putting this run on are truly a special
          group of people; but those of who who subscribe to this list already
          know that. I find it a bit unsettling that the dialogue that transpired
          did take a personal note and kudos to both Jim and Matt for realizing
          that this list isn't the best place for such a dialogue.
          The selection of runners for the HRH has become much more complicated
          than any of us (the organizers/run committe/Board of Directors) ever
          imagined it would be. Once again, I am speaking for the run as a whole
          when I say that we are all dedicated to keeping the Hardrock Hundred an
          event for those who want to challenge themselves against our course and
          themselves.
          This years selection process favors those who have been part of our
          "family". There is a bias in this years selection process toward those
          who have attempted/completed our run. We have allocated slots for people
          who want to experience the HRH for the first time but the number is less
          than the number allocated for previous participants. Does this mean that
          all of you who want to run in 2002 will be here in July? None of us can
          answer that question until the first of February when we sit down and
          look at the applications. If this selection process doesn't work then
          we'll definitely revamp it for 2003 and you can count on us getting your
          opinion.
          Personally speaking, all of you are the biggest part of why I stay
          involved in this run. I hope to see all of you who want to be here in
          July.
          Dale Garland
          RD, HRH


          Dick Huff wrote:
          >
          > Hello everyone!
          >
          > I am a relative newcomer to Hardrock, the first year as a pacer, the second
          > year as a runner (DNF). I can understand why everyone is afraid of not being
          > included each year. Hardrock is a truly special event. It does not take very
          > long to get to know everyone and be involved in all aspects of the event.
          > Everyone's stories of success and failure come in to play each year. I think
          > you all look forward to being a part of each others lives during Hardrock.
          >
          > The inevitable is happening, Ultras are becoming more popular and more
          > people want to participate. Unfortunately, there is not enough room at
          > Hardrock each year for the growing masses. I have a suggestion for entry
          > requirements: limit the number of times people are allowed to attempt
          > Hardrock to Three. This may seem like harsh reality at the initial stage. We
          > will all miss all of the five time finishers, whether Kirk Apt can continue
          > his awesome streak. But, if you all hold Hardrock in such high regard, then
          > you can come back year after year and mark the course, pace, volunteer, or
          > work at the Aid Stations. You can still be a part of all of the fun,
          > excitement, the people, the beautiful mountains without being a runner every
          > year.
          >
          > I agree with Jim Fisher, Hardrock is magical and is about friends. Like I
          > said, I am a newcomer to Hardrock, I liked being a part of and accepted by
          > such a fascinating group of people from the first day. That is just human
          > nature. Why not let as many people be a part Hardrock. I must admit, after
          > the first year, I decided that I wanted to go back to Hardrock and run every
          > year. I now know that would be a very selfish thing to do. I was grateful
          > for the opportunity to run. I think everyone should be willing to let as
          > many people experience Hardrock as possible, let some other runners achieve
          > there goals. The names and faces will change over the years, the magic of
          > Hardrock will always be there.
          >
          > It is a tribute to Dale Garland that everyone has such strong emotions about
          > Hardrock. I have not heard Dale comment about the large number of applicants
          > expected this year. Has this problem been created by the runners? Are we
          > all getting excited for no reason? Dale-Are you concerned about this at all?
          >
          > Thanks everyone.
          >
          > Dick Huff
          >
          > - Original Message -----
          > From: <laurantodd@...>
          > To: <hr100@yahoogroups.com>; <hr100@yahoogroups.com>
          > Sent: Monday, November 12, 2001 3:37 PM
          > Subject: RE: [hr100] Hardrock Hundred Clarification
          >
          > > Jim and Matt,
          > > Thanks for generating conversation. I hate waiting for the snow reports to
          > > start thinking about the Silverton One-Lap Fun Run. Here's my two cents:
          > > I hope Hardrock never ...
          > > 1. Becomes like Leadville in that everyone who enters is accepted. The
          > high-
          > > altitude trails can't handle that type of abuse, and the small size of
          > > Hardrock -- where you are treated like family -- is one of its most
          > appealing
          > > aspects. If given the choice, I'd rather have the race limited to 100 and
          > know
          > > that I'm not allowed in than have it be 150 and be guaranteed an entry
          > spot. If
          > > Hardrock were ever to open itself to all-comers I wouldn't enter. Hardrock
          > > would no longer be Hardrock. (Note: This is not a knock on Leadville,
          > which has
          > > a lot of jeep road, is at a lower altitude, is on more-developed trails
          > and can
          > > handle more people than Hardrock. I think Leadville is crowded, and the
          > > character of the race has gotten worse as it has gotten bigger, but
          > Leadville
          > > is still a great race).
          > > 2. Comes down to a points system. You runners and volunteers who started
          > this
          > > race and kept it going deserve the first crack at entry spots. This is
          > your
          > > race. You took the initial risks. You kept the race going. You kept it
          > low-key
          > > and challenging. You made it the coolest race there is. Rewarding the
          > people
          > > who started this race and help keep it going evey year I totally agree
          > with.
          > > But if a points system were instituted, I could see people marking the
          > course,
          > > volunteering, pacing, etc., to get the points and NOT to mark the course,
          > > volunteer, pace, etc. That would be so wrong.
          > > 3. Becomes like the Ironman in that dollars improve your lottery position.
          > For
          > > those not familiar, the Ironman has a separate lottery for its club
          > members who
          > > pay extra for that privilege. That's on top of its ungodly cost. I love
          > the
          > > challenge of the Ironman but the cost is one of the things that makes me
          > an
          > > ultra freak and not a tri-geek.
          > > Todd Burgess
          > >
          > >
          > > > --- "Maslanka, Bozena (SC)" <bmaslank@...>
          > > > wrote:
          > > > > Matt,
          > > > > Since you sound like you have a lot of money to
          > > > > spend, can you pay my entry
          > > > > fee?
          > > >
          > > > Sure, at Wickham Park :-)
          > > >
          > > > > Please don't forget that not everyone is use to
          > > > > sleeping in one person tent
          > > > > and take baths in cold rivers.
          > > >
          > > > I think it's good training. I don't know if anyone
          > > > else has noticed but it seems to me that people that
          > > > demand the most comfort outside the race are the first
          > > > ones to drop out when the going gets tough.
          > > >
          > > > > Please be more sensitive making silly suggestions.
          > > >
          > > > I don't think it's silly. If you have 200 entrants
          > > > and 100 slots, then half of them aren't going to like
          > > > the selection process no matter how fair you try to
          > > > make it. I think it's noble that Hardrock intends to
          > > > keep the entry fee below what the market will bear,
          > > > but then they just have to substitute some other
          > > > arbitrary hurdle to limit entries. This could be a
          > > > lottery (like Western States), a trail work
          > > > requirement (like Wasatch), or tougher qualifying
          > > > standards (like the world championships or Ironman).
          > > > "None of the above" is not an option. You must choose
          > > > names somehow, and there is no way to do it and still
          > > > keep everyone happy.
          > > >
          > > > The point of my previous post was to ask what is so
          > > > special about Hardrock that it fills up when there are
          > > > plenty of cheap or free races? It is not like you
          > > > have to have a lot of money to run ultras. But if you
          > > > want prestige, I think you should have to pay for it.
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > =====
          > > > -- Matt Mahoney, matmahoney@...
          > > >
          > > > __________________________________________________
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        • Herr, Dennis B.
          Obviously, the Hardrock Committee is a victim of its own success, so maybe it s time to raise the ante. How about no crews, no aid stations and no course
          Message 4 of 21 , Nov 14, 2001
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            Obviously, the Hardrock Committee is a victim
            of its own success, so maybe it's time to raise
            the ante. How about no crews, no aid stations
            and no course markings (except on your maps)?
            In other words, no more pampering. That should
            cut out some of the deadwood. Call it a natural
            selection process. It should make the committee's
            job a lot easier. Remember, this is billed as a
            post-grad event. I'm sure Matt would be the first
            to endorse this format.

            dennis
          • Matt Mahoney
            ... Great idea. In fact we can be flexible about the starting time and date. Just go run the course on your own and tell us how long it took. We can even
            Message 5 of 21 , Nov 14, 2001
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              --- "Herr, Dennis B." <dennis_herr@...> wrote:
              > Obviously, the Hardrock Committee is a victim
              > of its own success, so maybe it's time to raise
              > the ante. How about no crews, no aid stations
              > and no course markings (except on your maps)?
              > In other words, no more pampering. That should
              > cut out some of the deadwood. Call it a natural
              > selection process. It should make the committee's
              > job a lot easier. Remember, this is billed as a
              > post-grad event. I'm sure Matt would be the first
              > to endorse this format.

              Great idea. In fact we can be flexible about the
              starting time and date. Just go run the course on
              your own and tell us how long it took. We can even
              drop the entry fee and qualifications. And for those
              who are bored with the current course or don't think
              it's tough enough, I can suggest a few changes around
              Sneffels, Sunshine, and Redcloud.


              =====
              -- Matt Mahoney, matmahoney@...

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            • Stevan Pattillo
              But, But, But? No T-shirt? Now that is going too far! Steve
              Message 6 of 21 , Nov 14, 2001
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                But, But, But? No T-shirt? Now that is going too far!
                Steve
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