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RE: [hr100] Hardrock Hundred Clarification

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  • Herr, Dennis B.
    Matt wrote: You must choose names somehow, and there is no way to do it and still keep everyone happy. How about the old dart board? Dennis -
    Message 1 of 21 , Nov 13, 2001
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      Matt wrote:

      You must choose
      names somehow, and there is no way to do it and still
      keep everyone happy.

      How about the old dart board?

      Dennis

      -
    • Maslanka, Bozena (SC)
      Matt, I will try not insult you because I thought that you were very intelligent person. What is wrong with you, have you lost it completely? Please read all
      Message 2 of 21 , Nov 13, 2001
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        Matt,
        I will try not insult you because I thought that you were very intelligent
        person.
        What is wrong with you, have you lost it completely?
        Please read all the responses you made and seek medical help. It may not be
        too late.
        All the glory and t-shirts you mention earlier, well what is up with the one
        pair of shorts and one pair of t-shirt you have been wearing for the past
        four years.
        Stop making ass of yourself.
        Bozena

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Matt Mahoney [mailto:matmahoney@...]
        Sent: Monday, November 12, 2001 5:46 PM
        To: hr100@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [hr100] Hardrock Hundred Clarification


        --- "Maslanka, Bozena (SC)" <bmaslank@...>
        wrote:
        > Matt,
        > Since you sound like you have a lot of money to
        > spend, can you pay my entry
        > fee?

        Sure, at Wickham Park :-)

        > Please don't forget that not everyone is use to
        > sleeping in one person tent
        > and take baths in cold rivers.

        I think it's good training. I don't know if anyone
        else has noticed but it seems to me that people that
        demand the most comfort outside the race are the first
        ones to drop out when the going gets tough.

        > Please be more sensitive making silly suggestions.

        I don't think it's silly. If you have 200 entrants
        and 100 slots, then half of them aren't going to like
        the selection process no matter how fair you try to
        make it. I think it's noble that Hardrock intends to
        keep the entry fee below what the market will bear,
        but then they just have to substitute some other
        arbitrary hurdle to limit entries. This could be a
        lottery (like Western States), a trail work
        requirement (like Wasatch), or tougher qualifying
        standards (like the world championships or Ironman).
        "None of the above" is not an option. You must choose
        names somehow, and there is no way to do it and still
        keep everyone happy.

        The point of my previous post was to ask what is so
        special about Hardrock that it fills up when there are
        plenty of cheap or free races? It is not like you
        have to have a lot of money to run ultras. But if you
        want prestige, I think you should have to pay for it.


        =====
        -- Matt Mahoney, matmahoney@...

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      • Herr, Dennis B.
        Come on people; get a sense of humor! Get a life outside of running. What happened to the spirit of charity and unity that has been ballyhooed since 9-11?
        Message 3 of 21 , Nov 13, 2001
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          Come on people; get a sense of humor!

          Get a life outside of running.

          What happened to the spirit of charity
          and unity that has been ballyhooed since
          9-11?

          Dennis Herr

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Maslanka, Bozena (SC) [mailto:bmaslank@...]
          Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2001 9:08 AM
          To: 'hr100@yahoogroups.com'
          Subject: RE: [hr100] Hardrock Hundred Clarification


          Matt,
          I will try not insult you because I thought that you were very intelligent
          person.
          What is wrong with you, have you lost it completely?
          Please read all the responses you made and seek medical help. It may not be
          too late.
          All the glory and t-shirts you mention earlier, well what is up with the one
          pair of shorts and one pair of t-shirt you have been wearing for the past
          four years.
          Stop making ass of yourself.
          Bozena

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Matt Mahoney [mailto:matmahoney@...]
          Sent: Monday, November 12, 2001 5:46 PM
          To: hr100@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: [hr100] Hardrock Hundred Clarification


          --- "Maslanka, Bozena (SC)" <bmaslank@...>
          wrote:
          > Matt,
          > Since you sound like you have a lot of money to
          > spend, can you pay my entry
          > fee?

          Sure, at Wickham Park :-)

          > Please don't forget that not everyone is use to
          > sleeping in one person tent
          > and take baths in cold rivers.

          I think it's good training. I don't know if anyone
          else has noticed but it seems to me that people that
          demand the most comfort outside the race are the first
          ones to drop out when the going gets tough.

          > Please be more sensitive making silly suggestions.

          I don't think it's silly. If you have 200 entrants
          and 100 slots, then half of them aren't going to like
          the selection process no matter how fair you try to
          make it. I think it's noble that Hardrock intends to
          keep the entry fee below what the market will bear,
          but then they just have to substitute some other
          arbitrary hurdle to limit entries. This could be a
          lottery (like Western States), a trail work
          requirement (like Wasatch), or tougher qualifying
          standards (like the world championships or Ironman).
          "None of the above" is not an option. You must choose
          names somehow, and there is no way to do it and still
          keep everyone happy.

          The point of my previous post was to ask what is so
          special about Hardrock that it fills up when there are
          plenty of cheap or free races? It is not like you
          have to have a lot of money to run ultras. But if you
          want prestige, I think you should have to pay for it.


          =====
          -- Matt Mahoney, matmahoney@...

          __________________________________________________
          Do You Yahoo!?
          Find a job, post your resume.
          http://careers.yahoo.com

          To Post a message, send it to: hr100@...

          To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: hr100-unsubscribe@...

          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


          To Post a message, send it to: hr100@...

          To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: hr100-unsubscribe@...

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        • Matt Mahoney
          Sorry if I sounded self-centered in my last post. I guess I am. I didn t mean to insult everyone that stays in a hotel in Silverton. I camp because I m
          Message 4 of 21 , Nov 13, 2001
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            Sorry if I sounded self-centered in my last post. I
            guess I am. I didn't mean to insult everyone that
            stays in a hotel in Silverton. I camp because I'm
            cheap.

            I don't want to pay a higher entry fee at Hardrock.
            What I am trying to say is there isn't any painless
            way to limit entries. We could have everyone with
            last names starting with A through L run next year and
            M through Z in 2003. I know that's arbitrary, but so
            is every other method that anyone has come up with.
            Somebody isn't going to like it.

            I enjoy Hardrock because it's a chance to see my
            friends, although I seem to have fewer of them now.


            =====
            -- Matt Mahoney, matmahoney@...

            __________________________________________________
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          • Stevan Pattillo
            Jimmy, Oh come on, try not to be so hard on Matt. He is initiating a discussion not asking for an on-line personnality inventory and analysis. Any discussion
            Message 5 of 21 , Nov 13, 2001
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              Jimmy, Oh come on, try not to be so hard on Matt. He is initiating a
              discussion not asking for an on-line personnality inventory and analysis.
              Any discussion the entry proceedure is bound to be contentious, it needs to
              be thought provoking if we are to come up with any new approaches. Most of
              us are too far gone to be helped by any drive-up psychoanalysis. That is
              what makes us such a "colorful" bunch, and possibly why we enjoy each
              other's company at Hardrock.
              As an aside; I'm glad I'm not the person who has to decide just how many
              entries and the selection criteria that allows most of us to qualify for
              what is beginning to look more and more like a day out program for a
              comunity based mental health program.
            • dale garland
              Hi Everyone Dick Huff has asked what my thoughts on what has been said the past couple of days so here goes! I know I am speaking for all of us involved in the
              Message 6 of 21 , Nov 13, 2001
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                Hi Everyone
                Dick Huff has asked what my thoughts on what has been said the past
                couple of days so here goes! I know I am speaking for all of us involved
                in the HRH when I say we are honored that this run means so much to
                people. The people involved with putting this run on are truly a special
                group of people; but those of who who subscribe to this list already
                know that. I find it a bit unsettling that the dialogue that transpired
                did take a personal note and kudos to both Jim and Matt for realizing
                that this list isn't the best place for such a dialogue.
                The selection of runners for the HRH has become much more complicated
                than any of us (the organizers/run committe/Board of Directors) ever
                imagined it would be. Once again, I am speaking for the run as a whole
                when I say that we are all dedicated to keeping the Hardrock Hundred an
                event for those who want to challenge themselves against our course and
                themselves.
                This years selection process favors those who have been part of our
                "family". There is a bias in this years selection process toward those
                who have attempted/completed our run. We have allocated slots for people
                who want to experience the HRH for the first time but the number is less
                than the number allocated for previous participants. Does this mean that
                all of you who want to run in 2002 will be here in July? None of us can
                answer that question until the first of February when we sit down and
                look at the applications. If this selection process doesn't work then
                we'll definitely revamp it for 2003 and you can count on us getting your
                opinion.
                Personally speaking, all of you are the biggest part of why I stay
                involved in this run. I hope to see all of you who want to be here in
                July.
                Dale Garland
                RD, HRH


                Dick Huff wrote:
                >
                > Hello everyone!
                >
                > I am a relative newcomer to Hardrock, the first year as a pacer, the second
                > year as a runner (DNF). I can understand why everyone is afraid of not being
                > included each year. Hardrock is a truly special event. It does not take very
                > long to get to know everyone and be involved in all aspects of the event.
                > Everyone's stories of success and failure come in to play each year. I think
                > you all look forward to being a part of each others lives during Hardrock.
                >
                > The inevitable is happening, Ultras are becoming more popular and more
                > people want to participate. Unfortunately, there is not enough room at
                > Hardrock each year for the growing masses. I have a suggestion for entry
                > requirements: limit the number of times people are allowed to attempt
                > Hardrock to Three. This may seem like harsh reality at the initial stage. We
                > will all miss all of the five time finishers, whether Kirk Apt can continue
                > his awesome streak. But, if you all hold Hardrock in such high regard, then
                > you can come back year after year and mark the course, pace, volunteer, or
                > work at the Aid Stations. You can still be a part of all of the fun,
                > excitement, the people, the beautiful mountains without being a runner every
                > year.
                >
                > I agree with Jim Fisher, Hardrock is magical and is about friends. Like I
                > said, I am a newcomer to Hardrock, I liked being a part of and accepted by
                > such a fascinating group of people from the first day. That is just human
                > nature. Why not let as many people be a part Hardrock. I must admit, after
                > the first year, I decided that I wanted to go back to Hardrock and run every
                > year. I now know that would be a very selfish thing to do. I was grateful
                > for the opportunity to run. I think everyone should be willing to let as
                > many people experience Hardrock as possible, let some other runners achieve
                > there goals. The names and faces will change over the years, the magic of
                > Hardrock will always be there.
                >
                > It is a tribute to Dale Garland that everyone has such strong emotions about
                > Hardrock. I have not heard Dale comment about the large number of applicants
                > expected this year. Has this problem been created by the runners? Are we
                > all getting excited for no reason? Dale-Are you concerned about this at all?
                >
                > Thanks everyone.
                >
                > Dick Huff
                >
                > - Original Message -----
                > From: <laurantodd@...>
                > To: <hr100@yahoogroups.com>; <hr100@yahoogroups.com>
                > Sent: Monday, November 12, 2001 3:37 PM
                > Subject: RE: [hr100] Hardrock Hundred Clarification
                >
                > > Jim and Matt,
                > > Thanks for generating conversation. I hate waiting for the snow reports to
                > > start thinking about the Silverton One-Lap Fun Run. Here's my two cents:
                > > I hope Hardrock never ...
                > > 1. Becomes like Leadville in that everyone who enters is accepted. The
                > high-
                > > altitude trails can't handle that type of abuse, and the small size of
                > > Hardrock -- where you are treated like family -- is one of its most
                > appealing
                > > aspects. If given the choice, I'd rather have the race limited to 100 and
                > know
                > > that I'm not allowed in than have it be 150 and be guaranteed an entry
                > spot. If
                > > Hardrock were ever to open itself to all-comers I wouldn't enter. Hardrock
                > > would no longer be Hardrock. (Note: This is not a knock on Leadville,
                > which has
                > > a lot of jeep road, is at a lower altitude, is on more-developed trails
                > and can
                > > handle more people than Hardrock. I think Leadville is crowded, and the
                > > character of the race has gotten worse as it has gotten bigger, but
                > Leadville
                > > is still a great race).
                > > 2. Comes down to a points system. You runners and volunteers who started
                > this
                > > race and kept it going deserve the first crack at entry spots. This is
                > your
                > > race. You took the initial risks. You kept the race going. You kept it
                > low-key
                > > and challenging. You made it the coolest race there is. Rewarding the
                > people
                > > who started this race and help keep it going evey year I totally agree
                > with.
                > > But if a points system were instituted, I could see people marking the
                > course,
                > > volunteering, pacing, etc., to get the points and NOT to mark the course,
                > > volunteer, pace, etc. That would be so wrong.
                > > 3. Becomes like the Ironman in that dollars improve your lottery position.
                > For
                > > those not familiar, the Ironman has a separate lottery for its club
                > members who
                > > pay extra for that privilege. That's on top of its ungodly cost. I love
                > the
                > > challenge of the Ironman but the cost is one of the things that makes me
                > an
                > > ultra freak and not a tri-geek.
                > > Todd Burgess
                > >
                > >
                > > > --- "Maslanka, Bozena (SC)" <bmaslank@...>
                > > > wrote:
                > > > > Matt,
                > > > > Since you sound like you have a lot of money to
                > > > > spend, can you pay my entry
                > > > > fee?
                > > >
                > > > Sure, at Wickham Park :-)
                > > >
                > > > > Please don't forget that not everyone is use to
                > > > > sleeping in one person tent
                > > > > and take baths in cold rivers.
                > > >
                > > > I think it's good training. I don't know if anyone
                > > > else has noticed but it seems to me that people that
                > > > demand the most comfort outside the race are the first
                > > > ones to drop out when the going gets tough.
                > > >
                > > > > Please be more sensitive making silly suggestions.
                > > >
                > > > I don't think it's silly. If you have 200 entrants
                > > > and 100 slots, then half of them aren't going to like
                > > > the selection process no matter how fair you try to
                > > > make it. I think it's noble that Hardrock intends to
                > > > keep the entry fee below what the market will bear,
                > > > but then they just have to substitute some other
                > > > arbitrary hurdle to limit entries. This could be a
                > > > lottery (like Western States), a trail work
                > > > requirement (like Wasatch), or tougher qualifying
                > > > standards (like the world championships or Ironman).
                > > > "None of the above" is not an option. You must choose
                > > > names somehow, and there is no way to do it and still
                > > > keep everyone happy.
                > > >
                > > > The point of my previous post was to ask what is so
                > > > special about Hardrock that it fills up when there are
                > > > plenty of cheap or free races? It is not like you
                > > > have to have a lot of money to run ultras. But if you
                > > > want prestige, I think you should have to pay for it.
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > =====
                > > > -- Matt Mahoney, matmahoney@...
                > > >
                > > > __________________________________________________
                > > > Do You Yahoo!?
                > > > Find a job, post your resume.
                > > > http://careers.yahoo.com
                > > >
                > > > To Post a message, send it to: hr100@...
                > > >
                > > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: hr100-unsubscribe@...
                > > >
                > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                > > >
                > > >
                > >
                > >
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                > >
                > >
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              • Herr, Dennis B.
                Obviously, the Hardrock Committee is a victim of its own success, so maybe it s time to raise the ante. How about no crews, no aid stations and no course
                Message 7 of 21 , Nov 14, 2001
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                  Obviously, the Hardrock Committee is a victim
                  of its own success, so maybe it's time to raise
                  the ante. How about no crews, no aid stations
                  and no course markings (except on your maps)?
                  In other words, no more pampering. That should
                  cut out some of the deadwood. Call it a natural
                  selection process. It should make the committee's
                  job a lot easier. Remember, this is billed as a
                  post-grad event. I'm sure Matt would be the first
                  to endorse this format.

                  dennis
                • Matt Mahoney
                  ... Great idea. In fact we can be flexible about the starting time and date. Just go run the course on your own and tell us how long it took. We can even
                  Message 8 of 21 , Nov 14, 2001
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                    --- "Herr, Dennis B." <dennis_herr@...> wrote:
                    > Obviously, the Hardrock Committee is a victim
                    > of its own success, so maybe it's time to raise
                    > the ante. How about no crews, no aid stations
                    > and no course markings (except on your maps)?
                    > In other words, no more pampering. That should
                    > cut out some of the deadwood. Call it a natural
                    > selection process. It should make the committee's
                    > job a lot easier. Remember, this is billed as a
                    > post-grad event. I'm sure Matt would be the first
                    > to endorse this format.

                    Great idea. In fact we can be flexible about the
                    starting time and date. Just go run the course on
                    your own and tell us how long it took. We can even
                    drop the entry fee and qualifications. And for those
                    who are bored with the current course or don't think
                    it's tough enough, I can suggest a few changes around
                    Sneffels, Sunshine, and Redcloud.


                    =====
                    -- Matt Mahoney, matmahoney@...

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                  • Stevan Pattillo
                    But, But, But? No T-shirt? Now that is going too far! Steve
                    Message 9 of 21 , Nov 14, 2001
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                      But, But, But? No T-shirt? Now that is going too far!
                      Steve
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