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Re: [hr100] Questions fur yu

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  • GEH@crosslinkinc.com
    Jim, Sounds like a bummer. Have you had any tests done on your abiltity to metabolize sugar? Don t know much about it, but various things happen as we get
    Message 1 of 7 , Jun 7, 2001
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      Jim,

      Sounds like a bummer. Have you had any tests done on your abiltity to metabolize sugar? Don't know much about it, but various things happen as we get older, including adult-onset-diabetes, which is a sugar metabolism thing.

      As for salt & stomach- I have found an excellent way is to use beef jerky. I make it myself, acutally it is dried sausage made from a good grade of beef, say London Broil steaks (they are in strips already & go into the sausage grinder great). I put generous amounts of coarse Kosher salt on them, and dry them, and then. cut them up. Looks like snake jerky, or something even more unmentionable, but it tastes great and has lots of salt. You don't have to look at it while you eat it..... I have found I can stomach it even late in the run when all food has changed its attractiveness. The protein in it is processed more slowly avoiding the sudden sugar ups and downs. Blake makes his own jerky too, but it is in the regular strip form, not sausage. I have found the flavored jerkies you can buy (teryaki, etc.) to be too flavorful, and I cannot stomach them in the run when my gut is near the edge....

      Good luck, let us know if you find the cure...

      Gordon Hardman

      jfisher wrote:

      Howdy All

      >From Jim Fisher, 5 time HR100 finisher.
      I have a story and some questions fur y'all.

      As an almost daily routine, for the warmer 6-8 months a year, for the
      last 10-12 years, I would go by the local 7 / 11 style grocery store /
      gas station in the afternoon and buy a super large fountain drink. I
      would drink this on the way up to the ski basin where I did my daily
      training runs. For years this worked out quite well. I was well
      hydrated, had plenty of energy to run, and a can of pringles would
      suffice for dinner.

      Then about 3 years ago I began to have energy problems. These gradually
      got worse to the point that sometimes during the last several years I
      could not train. I would go up to the trailheads as usual, but my entire
      body (not just my legs) was so depleted of energy that pretending to run
      anything more than 100 meters was totally beyond my capability. Not only
      did this mysterious condition sit me down and drag my butt in the dirt,
      it increased to the point that some days I could not focus or
      concentrate to work, even by the lowest standards of ultra running
      decision making and logic.

      Being an addicted runner, I tried every trick in the book to get a
      handle on this condition; every combination of vitamins, minerals, red
      meats, green vegetables, carbo's, DHEA, etc. known to man. I did
      cleanses for intestinal parasites, whether I had then or not,
      acupuncture, got blood tests, you name it. Nothing brought lasting
      relief, and nothing indicated that my body was reacting so badly to
      sugar.

      Finally this spring I concluded that maybe the problem wasn't what I was
      NOT eating. The problem was what I WAS eating; too much SUGAR. A few
      short experiments gave me undisputable evidence that, indeed my body no
      longer liked my prime fuel of all these years. Even a mere day or two of
      fountain drinks or other forms of sugar and I can not run from here to
      the bathroom.

      So my questions are.
      1) Does anyone know of a sports replenishment drink which does not
      contain sugar? (Considering the Hardrock to be a multi-day event, I
      don't want to chance continually ingesting sugar the whole first day)
      2) Does anyone know of a way to maintain bodily salt balance without the
      use of sports replenishment drinks? (Assuming that the Hardrock will be
      a long hot sweaty affair this year)
      3) In the past I have used canned Coke Cola to calm down my stomach and
      keep it under control when it got wierd during ultras. Does anyone know
      of another carbonated beverage, without sugar (forget Nutrasweet, barf)
      , which will serve this purpose?
      4) Does anyone know a way to make this process any easier? (If you think
      quitting sex or alcohol is difficult, then try getting off of sugar.)
      The next time you are out and about the town, try going by the local 7 /
      11 style establishment and seeing if you can find any liquid in their
      cooler cases that does not contain sugar.
      5) About the same time my energy problems began to occurr, I also
      developed ringing in my ears, which appears to be a permanent on-going
      nusiance. Does anyone know of a cure for this condition; western,
      oriental, or otherwise.

      I realize that I am probably going to get a bunch of wise-ass answers,
      but I would appreciate at least a few serious ones.
      Please reply to Jim Fisher directly;
      leptonsunlimited@...      unless you just want everybody to
      read your wise-ass comments or you feel that you have some information
      valuable to the whole running community.

      Thank You So Very Much
      Jim Fisher
       
       
       


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    • Catherine Mataisz
      Jim, I have the same problem with too much sugar during runs. For a drink I have gone to sport waters that have just the electrolytes in them and no sugars. I
      Message 2 of 7 , Jun 7, 2001
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        Jim, I have the same problem with too much sugar during runs.
        For a drink I have gone to sport waters that have just the electrolytes in
        them and no sugars. I get them at health food stores and better groceries.
        The name of the one I use most is Smartwater.
        I also use electrolytes, there are many brands out there. The brand we use
        is ElectrolyteStammina from Trace Minerals Research, another health food
        store item.
        As for the upset stomach I find protein helps me. I don't do well with any
        carbonated drinks.
        I have forwarded your message to a friend that has helped me in the past
        that knows way more than I do about what is out there. Hopefully he can be
        of some help.
        good luck, catherine

        jfisher wrote:

        > Howdy All
        >
        > >From Jim Fisher, 5 time HR100 finisher.
        > I have a story and some questions fur y'all.
        >
        > As an almost daily routine, for the warmer 6-8 months a year, for the
        > last 10-12 years, I would go by the local 7 / 11 style grocery store /
        > gas station in the afternoon and buy a super large fountain drink. I
        > would drink this on the way up to the ski basin where I did my daily
        > training runs. For years this worked out quite well. I was well
        > hydrated, had plenty of energy to run, and a can of pringles would
        > suffice for dinner.
        >
        > Then about 3 years ago I began to have energy problems. These gradually
        > got worse to the point that sometimes during the last several years I
        > could not train. I would go up to the trailheads as usual, but my entire
        > body (not just my legs) was so depleted of energy that pretending to run
        > anything more than 100 meters was totally beyond my capability. Not only
        > did this mysterious condition sit me down and drag my butt in the dirt,
        > it increased to the point that some days I could not focus or
        > concentrate to work, even by the lowest standards of ultra running
        > decision making and logic.
        >
        > Being an addicted runner, I tried every trick in the book to get a
        > handle on this condition; every combination of vitamins, minerals, red
        > meats, green vegetables, carbo's, DHEA, etc. known to man. I did
        > cleanses for intestinal parasites, whether I had then or not,
        > acupuncture, got blood tests, you name it. Nothing brought lasting
        > relief, and nothing indicated that my body was reacting so badly to
        > sugar.
        >
        > Finally this spring I concluded that maybe the problem wasn't what I was
        > NOT eating. The problem was what I WAS eating; too much SUGAR. A few
        > short experiments gave me undisputable evidence that, indeed my body no
        > longer liked my prime fuel of all these years. Even a mere day or two of
        > fountain drinks or other forms of sugar and I can not run from here to
        > the bathroom.
        >
        > So my questions are.
        > 1) Does anyone know of a sports replenishment drink which does not
        > contain sugar? (Considering the Hardrock to be a multi-day event, I
        > don't want to chance continually ingesting sugar the whole first day)
        > 2) Does anyone know of a way to maintain bodily salt balance without the
        > use of sports replenishment drinks? (Assuming that the Hardrock will be
        > a long hot sweaty affair this year)
        > 3) In the past I have used canned Coke Cola to calm down my stomach and
        > keep it under control when it got wierd during ultras. Does anyone know
        > of another carbonated beverage, without sugar (forget Nutrasweet, barf)
        > , which will serve this purpose?
        > 4) Does anyone know a way to make this process any easier? (If you think
        > quitting sex or alcohol is difficult, then try getting off of sugar.)
        > The next time you are out and about the town, try going by the local 7 /
        > 11 style establishment and seeing if you can find any liquid in their
        > cooler cases that does not contain sugar.
        > 5) About the same time my energy problems began to occurr, I also
        > developed ringing in my ears, which appears to be a permanent on-going
        > nusiance. Does anyone know of a cure for this condition; western,
        > oriental, or otherwise.
        >
        > I realize that I am probably going to get a bunch of wise-ass answers,
        > but I would appreciate at least a few serious ones.
        > Please reply to Jim Fisher directly;
        > leptonsunlimited@... unless you just want everybody to
        > read your wise-ass comments or you feel that you have some information
        > valuable to the whole running community.
        >
        > Thank You So Very Much
        > Jim Fisher
        >
        > To Post a message, send it to: hr100@...
        >
        > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: hr100-unsubscribe@...
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      • carolyn erdman
        Jim, you are so correct with what you said about withdrawing from sugar, it is much harder-for me-than any of the others I have given up/become unattached to.
        Message 3 of 7 , Jun 8, 2001
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          Jim, you are so correct with what you said about withdrawing from sugar, it
          is much harder-for me-than any of the others I have given up/become
          unattached to. Adding white flour to that I have found nothing in a 7/11
          store to satisfy the non sugar white flour.
          I think that the rining in the ears may be associated with it but do not
          know for sure. I am trying so stuff but nothing seems to be working as yet.
          If it does I'll let you know.
          What about Dr. Kathie Lang or John Dewalt they night have info.

          See you soon
          Carolyn
        • Catherine Mataisz
          reply to Jim Fishers questions ... From: Adam W. Chase [mailto:chase@statetax-law.com] Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 12:15 PM To: hr100@yahoogroups.com Cc:
          Message 4 of 7 , Jun 8, 2001
          • 0 Attachment
            reply to Jim Fishers questions

            -----Original Message-----
            From: Adam W. Chase [mailto:chase@...]
            Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 12:15 PM
            To: 'hr100@yahoogroups.com'
            Cc: 'richruns@...'; 'jpyra@...'
            Subject: RE: [hr100] Questions fur yu


            Jim:

            I was forwarded your message from some friends who are the HR Group, Roch
            Horton and Catherine Mataisz. They thought I might have some answers
            because I have suffered from some blood sugar problems and do a lot of
            experimentation with different products in doing gear reviews and in an
            effort to improve my running and racing in trail ultras. Most recently I
            have been doing some investigation in the nutrition and running area for a
            book that Nancy Hobbs and I have co-authored, called The Ultimate Guide to
            Trail Running, due out this August from The Lyons Press (see
            www.trailrunner.com).

            The answer to your first question is that there are several low to almost
            no sugar replenishers on the market. One is Conquest, which you won't like
            because it contains Nutrasweet. Ultima is very low in sugar (almost none)
            and gets any sweet flavor from stevia, which is used widely in Japanese
            product but isn't that common in the U.S. Ultima's berry flavors are rather
            strong, but the Passion goes down real nicely and the stuff works very well
            to get the many minerals into your muscles instead of having them sit in
            your stomach because the sugars are blocking the absorption and requiring
            your digestive system to actually pull water away from your working muscles.
            Go figure.

            I understand that the new GU20 product is pretty low in sugar. I tried a
            pre-market sample and it certainly tasted as though it lacked sweetener.
            My
            understanding is that they have dialed the flavor in a bit since then, so
            you may want to try that product when it hits the market in the near future.
            It is designed to work as a complement to sports gels and to facilitate the
            absorption of the minerals into your system.

            Other drinks that you may want to try because they offer a more balanced
            make-up but more than I prefer when running are Revenge, Cytomax, Clip,
            Succeed, and R4. They all have different bells and whistles, but the main
            idea is that they replace most everything you are losing. I tend to favor
            drinking something that is lighter and goes down more quickly and then I use
            salt tablets (Succeed from Ultra Fit, which you can find through
            UltraRunning) to enhance the salt balance, which answers your second
            inquiry.

            As far as carbonation, you can always use "aqua con gas" or fizzy water or
            Perrier or Club Soda to get those bubbles into your system. That works very
            well to help with GI problems and bring up some deep belches to release
            pressure. I go for a shot of Coke late in an ultra in part because the
            psychological rush of sugar and caffeine helps push me for a handful of
            miles.

            Any easier? Why would we do it if it were any easier? I would, however,
            suggest trying some adjustments to your diet both when on the run and during
            those few non-running moments of the day. I am a vegan and have found that
            if I overdo the sugar consumption I can even things out by eating some nuts
            (I prefer soy nuts) in the afternoon and that gets me some needed fat and
            protein to take the edge off for the rest of the day.

            I hope that helps. The hard part is that things change and so what worked
            one year (or one season or one day) may not the next. Its fun trying to get
            it right and otherwise life would be pretty dull.

            Best,

            Adam

            Adam W. Chase
            chase@...
            (303) 444-2993


            -----Original Message-----
            From: jfisher [mailto:leptonsunlimited@...]
            Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2001 1:33 PM
            To: hr100@yahoogroups.com
            Cc: richruns@...; jpyra@...
            Subject: [hr100] Questions fur yu


            Howdy All

            >From Jim Fisher, 5 time HR100 finisher.
            I have a story and some questions fur y'all.

            As an almost daily routine, for the warmer 6-8 months a year, for the
            last 10-12 years, I would go by the local 7 / 11 style grocery store /
            gas station in the afternoon and buy a super large fountain drink. I
            would drink this on the way up to the ski basin where I did my daily
            training runs. For years this worked out quite well. I was well
            hydrated, had plenty of energy to run, and a can of pringles would
            suffice for dinner.

            Then about 3 years ago I began to have energy problems. These gradually
            got worse to the point that sometimes during the last several years I
            could not train. I would go up to the trailheads as usual, but my entire
            body (not just my legs) was so depleted of energy that pretending to run
            anything more than 100 meters was totally beyond my capability. Not only
            did this mysterious condition sit me down and drag my butt in the dirt,
            it increased to the point that some days I could not focus or
            concentrate to work, even by the lowest standards of ultra running
            decision making and logic.

            Being an addicted runner, I tried every trick in the book to get a
            handle on this condition; every combination of vitamins, minerals, red
            meats, green vegetables, carbo's, DHEA, etc. known to man. I did
            cleanses for intestinal parasites, whether I had then or not,
            acupuncture, got blood tests, you name it. Nothing brought lasting
            relief, and nothing indicated that my body was reacting so badly to
            sugar.

            Finally this spring I concluded that maybe the problem wasn't what I was
            NOT eating. The problem was what I WAS eating; too much SUGAR. A few
            short experiments gave me undisputable evidence that, indeed my body no
            longer liked my prime fuel of all these years. Even a mere day or two of
            fountain drinks or other forms of sugar and I can not run from here to
            the bathroom.

            So my questions are.
            1) Does anyone know of a sports replenishment drink which does not
            contain sugar? (Considering the Hardrock to be a multi-day event, I
            don't want to chance continually ingesting sugar the whole first day)
            2) Does anyone know of a way to maintain bodily salt balance without the
            use of sports replenishment drinks? (Assuming that the Hardrock will be
            a long hot sweaty affair this year)
            3) In the past I have used canned Coke Cola to calm down my stomach and
            keep it under control when it got wierd during ultras. Does anyone know
            of another carbonated beverage, without sugar (forget Nutrasweet, barf)
            , which will serve this purpose?
            4) Does anyone know a way to make this process any easier? (If you think
            quitting sex or alcohol is difficult, then try getting off of sugar.)
            The next time you are out and about the town, try going by the local 7 /
            11 style establishment and seeing if you can find any liquid in their
            cooler cases that does not contain sugar.
            5) About the same time my energy problems began to occurr, I also
            developed ringing in my ears, which appears to be a permanent on-going
            nusiance. Does anyone know of a cure for this condition; western,
            oriental, or otherwise.

            I realize that I am probably going to get a bunch of wise-ass answers,
            but I would appreciate at least a few serious ones.
            Please reply to Jim Fisher directly;
            leptonsunlimited@... unless you just want everybody to
            read your wise-ass comments or you feel that you have some information
            valuable to the whole running community.

            Thank You So Very Much
            Jim Fisher




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