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Re: [hr100] Questions fur yu

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  • GEH@crosslinkinc.com
    Jim, Sounds like a bummer. Have you had any tests done on your abiltity to metabolize sugar? Don t know much about it, but various things happen as we get
    Message 1 of 7 , Jun 7, 2001
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      Jim,

      Sounds like a bummer. Have you had any tests done on your abiltity to metabolize sugar? Don't know much about it, but various things happen as we get older, including adult-onset-diabetes, which is a sugar metabolism thing.

      As for salt & stomach- I have found an excellent way is to use beef jerky. I make it myself, acutally it is dried sausage made from a good grade of beef, say London Broil steaks (they are in strips already & go into the sausage grinder great). I put generous amounts of coarse Kosher salt on them, and dry them, and then. cut them up. Looks like snake jerky, or something even more unmentionable, but it tastes great and has lots of salt. You don't have to look at it while you eat it..... I have found I can stomach it even late in the run when all food has changed its attractiveness. The protein in it is processed more slowly avoiding the sudden sugar ups and downs. Blake makes his own jerky too, but it is in the regular strip form, not sausage. I have found the flavored jerkies you can buy (teryaki, etc.) to be too flavorful, and I cannot stomach them in the run when my gut is near the edge....

      Good luck, let us know if you find the cure...

      Gordon Hardman

      jfisher wrote:

      Howdy All

      >From Jim Fisher, 5 time HR100 finisher.
      I have a story and some questions fur y'all.

      As an almost daily routine, for the warmer 6-8 months a year, for the
      last 10-12 years, I would go by the local 7 / 11 style grocery store /
      gas station in the afternoon and buy a super large fountain drink. I
      would drink this on the way up to the ski basin where I did my daily
      training runs. For years this worked out quite well. I was well
      hydrated, had plenty of energy to run, and a can of pringles would
      suffice for dinner.

      Then about 3 years ago I began to have energy problems. These gradually
      got worse to the point that sometimes during the last several years I
      could not train. I would go up to the trailheads as usual, but my entire
      body (not just my legs) was so depleted of energy that pretending to run
      anything more than 100 meters was totally beyond my capability. Not only
      did this mysterious condition sit me down and drag my butt in the dirt,
      it increased to the point that some days I could not focus or
      concentrate to work, even by the lowest standards of ultra running
      decision making and logic.

      Being an addicted runner, I tried every trick in the book to get a
      handle on this condition; every combination of vitamins, minerals, red
      meats, green vegetables, carbo's, DHEA, etc. known to man. I did
      cleanses for intestinal parasites, whether I had then or not,
      acupuncture, got blood tests, you name it. Nothing brought lasting
      relief, and nothing indicated that my body was reacting so badly to
      sugar.

      Finally this spring I concluded that maybe the problem wasn't what I was
      NOT eating. The problem was what I WAS eating; too much SUGAR. A few
      short experiments gave me undisputable evidence that, indeed my body no
      longer liked my prime fuel of all these years. Even a mere day or two of
      fountain drinks or other forms of sugar and I can not run from here to
      the bathroom.

      So my questions are.
      1) Does anyone know of a sports replenishment drink which does not
      contain sugar? (Considering the Hardrock to be a multi-day event, I
      don't want to chance continually ingesting sugar the whole first day)
      2) Does anyone know of a way to maintain bodily salt balance without the
      use of sports replenishment drinks? (Assuming that the Hardrock will be
      a long hot sweaty affair this year)
      3) In the past I have used canned Coke Cola to calm down my stomach and
      keep it under control when it got wierd during ultras. Does anyone know
      of another carbonated beverage, without sugar (forget Nutrasweet, barf)
      , which will serve this purpose?
      4) Does anyone know a way to make this process any easier? (If you think
      quitting sex or alcohol is difficult, then try getting off of sugar.)
      The next time you are out and about the town, try going by the local 7 /
      11 style establishment and seeing if you can find any liquid in their
      cooler cases that does not contain sugar.
      5) About the same time my energy problems began to occurr, I also
      developed ringing in my ears, which appears to be a permanent on-going
      nusiance. Does anyone know of a cure for this condition; western,
      oriental, or otherwise.

      I realize that I am probably going to get a bunch of wise-ass answers,
      but I would appreciate at least a few serious ones.
      Please reply to Jim Fisher directly;
      leptonsunlimited@...      unless you just want everybody to
      read your wise-ass comments or you feel that you have some information
      valuable to the whole running community.

      Thank You So Very Much
      Jim Fisher
       
       
       


      To Post a message, send it to:   hr100@...

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    • Feucht, Andrea L.
      ... Like mentioned before, Propel. ... Electrolyte caps, from Succeed or elsewhere. ... Any decent grocery should have canned carbonated mineral water, which
      Message 2 of 7 , Jun 7, 2001
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        > 1) Does anyone know of a sports replenishment drink which does not
        > contain sugar? (Considering the Hardrock to be a multi-day event, I
        > don't want to chance continually ingesting sugar the whole first day)

        Like mentioned before, Propel.

        > 2) Does anyone know of a way to maintain bodily salt balance
        > without the
        > use of sports replenishment drinks? (Assuming that the
        > Hardrock will be
        > a long hot sweaty affair this year)

        Electrolyte caps, from Succeed or elsewhere.

        > 3) In the past I have used canned Coke Cola to calm down my
        > stomach and
        > keep it under control when it got wierd during ultras. Does
        > anyone know
        > of another carbonated beverage, without sugar (forget
        > Nutrasweet, barf)
        > , which will serve this purpose?

        Any decent grocery should have canned carbonated mineral water, which has no
        calories, and no nutrasweet. Brand names are LaCroix, Klarbrunn, and
        others.

        > 4) Does anyone know a way to make this process any easier?
        > (If you think
        > quitting sex or alcohol is difficult, then try getting off of sugar.)
        > The next time you are out and about the town, try going by
        > the local 7 /
        > 11 style establishment and seeing if you can find any liquid in their
        > cooler cases that does not contain sugar.

        If you are good under social pressure, get someone else to do it with you.

        > 5) About the same time my energy problems began to occurr, I also
        > developed ringing in my ears, which appears to be a permanent on-going
        > nusiance. Does anyone know of a cure for this condition; western,
        > oriental, or otherwise.

        That I don't know.

        Good luck. See you up there.

        Andrea, in ABQ
        alf@... <mailto:alf@...>
        http://tenacity.net
      • Catherine Mataisz
        Jim, I have the same problem with too much sugar during runs. For a drink I have gone to sport waters that have just the electrolytes in them and no sugars. I
        Message 3 of 7 , Jun 7, 2001
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          Jim, I have the same problem with too much sugar during runs.
          For a drink I have gone to sport waters that have just the electrolytes in
          them and no sugars. I get them at health food stores and better groceries.
          The name of the one I use most is Smartwater.
          I also use electrolytes, there are many brands out there. The brand we use
          is ElectrolyteStammina from Trace Minerals Research, another health food
          store item.
          As for the upset stomach I find protein helps me. I don't do well with any
          carbonated drinks.
          I have forwarded your message to a friend that has helped me in the past
          that knows way more than I do about what is out there. Hopefully he can be
          of some help.
          good luck, catherine

          jfisher wrote:

          > Howdy All
          >
          > >From Jim Fisher, 5 time HR100 finisher.
          > I have a story and some questions fur y'all.
          >
          > As an almost daily routine, for the warmer 6-8 months a year, for the
          > last 10-12 years, I would go by the local 7 / 11 style grocery store /
          > gas station in the afternoon and buy a super large fountain drink. I
          > would drink this on the way up to the ski basin where I did my daily
          > training runs. For years this worked out quite well. I was well
          > hydrated, had plenty of energy to run, and a can of pringles would
          > suffice for dinner.
          >
          > Then about 3 years ago I began to have energy problems. These gradually
          > got worse to the point that sometimes during the last several years I
          > could not train. I would go up to the trailheads as usual, but my entire
          > body (not just my legs) was so depleted of energy that pretending to run
          > anything more than 100 meters was totally beyond my capability. Not only
          > did this mysterious condition sit me down and drag my butt in the dirt,
          > it increased to the point that some days I could not focus or
          > concentrate to work, even by the lowest standards of ultra running
          > decision making and logic.
          >
          > Being an addicted runner, I tried every trick in the book to get a
          > handle on this condition; every combination of vitamins, minerals, red
          > meats, green vegetables, carbo's, DHEA, etc. known to man. I did
          > cleanses for intestinal parasites, whether I had then or not,
          > acupuncture, got blood tests, you name it. Nothing brought lasting
          > relief, and nothing indicated that my body was reacting so badly to
          > sugar.
          >
          > Finally this spring I concluded that maybe the problem wasn't what I was
          > NOT eating. The problem was what I WAS eating; too much SUGAR. A few
          > short experiments gave me undisputable evidence that, indeed my body no
          > longer liked my prime fuel of all these years. Even a mere day or two of
          > fountain drinks or other forms of sugar and I can not run from here to
          > the bathroom.
          >
          > So my questions are.
          > 1) Does anyone know of a sports replenishment drink which does not
          > contain sugar? (Considering the Hardrock to be a multi-day event, I
          > don't want to chance continually ingesting sugar the whole first day)
          > 2) Does anyone know of a way to maintain bodily salt balance without the
          > use of sports replenishment drinks? (Assuming that the Hardrock will be
          > a long hot sweaty affair this year)
          > 3) In the past I have used canned Coke Cola to calm down my stomach and
          > keep it under control when it got wierd during ultras. Does anyone know
          > of another carbonated beverage, without sugar (forget Nutrasweet, barf)
          > , which will serve this purpose?
          > 4) Does anyone know a way to make this process any easier? (If you think
          > quitting sex or alcohol is difficult, then try getting off of sugar.)
          > The next time you are out and about the town, try going by the local 7 /
          > 11 style establishment and seeing if you can find any liquid in their
          > cooler cases that does not contain sugar.
          > 5) About the same time my energy problems began to occurr, I also
          > developed ringing in my ears, which appears to be a permanent on-going
          > nusiance. Does anyone know of a cure for this condition; western,
          > oriental, or otherwise.
          >
          > I realize that I am probably going to get a bunch of wise-ass answers,
          > but I would appreciate at least a few serious ones.
          > Please reply to Jim Fisher directly;
          > leptonsunlimited@... unless you just want everybody to
          > read your wise-ass comments or you feel that you have some information
          > valuable to the whole running community.
          >
          > Thank You So Very Much
          > Jim Fisher
          >
          > To Post a message, send it to: hr100@...
          >
          > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: hr100-unsubscribe@...
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        • carolyn erdman
          Jim, you are so correct with what you said about withdrawing from sugar, it is much harder-for me-than any of the others I have given up/become unattached to.
          Message 4 of 7 , Jun 8, 2001
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            Jim, you are so correct with what you said about withdrawing from sugar, it
            is much harder-for me-than any of the others I have given up/become
            unattached to. Adding white flour to that I have found nothing in a 7/11
            store to satisfy the non sugar white flour.
            I think that the rining in the ears may be associated with it but do not
            know for sure. I am trying so stuff but nothing seems to be working as yet.
            If it does I'll let you know.
            What about Dr. Kathie Lang or John Dewalt they night have info.

            See you soon
            Carolyn
          • Catherine Mataisz
            reply to Jim Fishers questions ... From: Adam W. Chase [mailto:chase@statetax-law.com] Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 12:15 PM To: hr100@yahoogroups.com Cc:
            Message 5 of 7 , Jun 8, 2001
            • 0 Attachment
              reply to Jim Fishers questions

              -----Original Message-----
              From: Adam W. Chase [mailto:chase@...]
              Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 12:15 PM
              To: 'hr100@yahoogroups.com'
              Cc: 'richruns@...'; 'jpyra@...'
              Subject: RE: [hr100] Questions fur yu


              Jim:

              I was forwarded your message from some friends who are the HR Group, Roch
              Horton and Catherine Mataisz. They thought I might have some answers
              because I have suffered from some blood sugar problems and do a lot of
              experimentation with different products in doing gear reviews and in an
              effort to improve my running and racing in trail ultras. Most recently I
              have been doing some investigation in the nutrition and running area for a
              book that Nancy Hobbs and I have co-authored, called The Ultimate Guide to
              Trail Running, due out this August from The Lyons Press (see
              www.trailrunner.com).

              The answer to your first question is that there are several low to almost
              no sugar replenishers on the market. One is Conquest, which you won't like
              because it contains Nutrasweet. Ultima is very low in sugar (almost none)
              and gets any sweet flavor from stevia, which is used widely in Japanese
              product but isn't that common in the U.S. Ultima's berry flavors are rather
              strong, but the Passion goes down real nicely and the stuff works very well
              to get the many minerals into your muscles instead of having them sit in
              your stomach because the sugars are blocking the absorption and requiring
              your digestive system to actually pull water away from your working muscles.
              Go figure.

              I understand that the new GU20 product is pretty low in sugar. I tried a
              pre-market sample and it certainly tasted as though it lacked sweetener.
              My
              understanding is that they have dialed the flavor in a bit since then, so
              you may want to try that product when it hits the market in the near future.
              It is designed to work as a complement to sports gels and to facilitate the
              absorption of the minerals into your system.

              Other drinks that you may want to try because they offer a more balanced
              make-up but more than I prefer when running are Revenge, Cytomax, Clip,
              Succeed, and R4. They all have different bells and whistles, but the main
              idea is that they replace most everything you are losing. I tend to favor
              drinking something that is lighter and goes down more quickly and then I use
              salt tablets (Succeed from Ultra Fit, which you can find through
              UltraRunning) to enhance the salt balance, which answers your second
              inquiry.

              As far as carbonation, you can always use "aqua con gas" or fizzy water or
              Perrier or Club Soda to get those bubbles into your system. That works very
              well to help with GI problems and bring up some deep belches to release
              pressure. I go for a shot of Coke late in an ultra in part because the
              psychological rush of sugar and caffeine helps push me for a handful of
              miles.

              Any easier? Why would we do it if it were any easier? I would, however,
              suggest trying some adjustments to your diet both when on the run and during
              those few non-running moments of the day. I am a vegan and have found that
              if I overdo the sugar consumption I can even things out by eating some nuts
              (I prefer soy nuts) in the afternoon and that gets me some needed fat and
              protein to take the edge off for the rest of the day.

              I hope that helps. The hard part is that things change and so what worked
              one year (or one season or one day) may not the next. Its fun trying to get
              it right and otherwise life would be pretty dull.

              Best,

              Adam

              Adam W. Chase
              chase@...
              (303) 444-2993


              -----Original Message-----
              From: jfisher [mailto:leptonsunlimited@...]
              Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2001 1:33 PM
              To: hr100@yahoogroups.com
              Cc: richruns@...; jpyra@...
              Subject: [hr100] Questions fur yu


              Howdy All

              >From Jim Fisher, 5 time HR100 finisher.
              I have a story and some questions fur y'all.

              As an almost daily routine, for the warmer 6-8 months a year, for the
              last 10-12 years, I would go by the local 7 / 11 style grocery store /
              gas station in the afternoon and buy a super large fountain drink. I
              would drink this on the way up to the ski basin where I did my daily
              training runs. For years this worked out quite well. I was well
              hydrated, had plenty of energy to run, and a can of pringles would
              suffice for dinner.

              Then about 3 years ago I began to have energy problems. These gradually
              got worse to the point that sometimes during the last several years I
              could not train. I would go up to the trailheads as usual, but my entire
              body (not just my legs) was so depleted of energy that pretending to run
              anything more than 100 meters was totally beyond my capability. Not only
              did this mysterious condition sit me down and drag my butt in the dirt,
              it increased to the point that some days I could not focus or
              concentrate to work, even by the lowest standards of ultra running
              decision making and logic.

              Being an addicted runner, I tried every trick in the book to get a
              handle on this condition; every combination of vitamins, minerals, red
              meats, green vegetables, carbo's, DHEA, etc. known to man. I did
              cleanses for intestinal parasites, whether I had then or not,
              acupuncture, got blood tests, you name it. Nothing brought lasting
              relief, and nothing indicated that my body was reacting so badly to
              sugar.

              Finally this spring I concluded that maybe the problem wasn't what I was
              NOT eating. The problem was what I WAS eating; too much SUGAR. A few
              short experiments gave me undisputable evidence that, indeed my body no
              longer liked my prime fuel of all these years. Even a mere day or two of
              fountain drinks or other forms of sugar and I can not run from here to
              the bathroom.

              So my questions are.
              1) Does anyone know of a sports replenishment drink which does not
              contain sugar? (Considering the Hardrock to be a multi-day event, I
              don't want to chance continually ingesting sugar the whole first day)
              2) Does anyone know of a way to maintain bodily salt balance without the
              use of sports replenishment drinks? (Assuming that the Hardrock will be
              a long hot sweaty affair this year)
              3) In the past I have used canned Coke Cola to calm down my stomach and
              keep it under control when it got wierd during ultras. Does anyone know
              of another carbonated beverage, without sugar (forget Nutrasweet, barf)
              , which will serve this purpose?
              4) Does anyone know a way to make this process any easier? (If you think
              quitting sex or alcohol is difficult, then try getting off of sugar.)
              The next time you are out and about the town, try going by the local 7 /
              11 style establishment and seeing if you can find any liquid in their
              cooler cases that does not contain sugar.
              5) About the same time my energy problems began to occurr, I also
              developed ringing in my ears, which appears to be a permanent on-going
              nusiance. Does anyone know of a cure for this condition; western,
              oriental, or otherwise.

              I realize that I am probably going to get a bunch of wise-ass answers,
              but I would appreciate at least a few serious ones.
              Please reply to Jim Fisher directly;
              leptonsunlimited@... unless you just want everybody to
              read your wise-ass comments or you feel that you have some information
              valuable to the whole running community.

              Thank You So Very Much
              Jim Fisher




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