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Re: Front-loaded walking for an Ultra

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  • Charles T. Thorn
    Hans-Deiter wrote (below) that the best strategy is to maintain equal splits. Blake Wood has done an analysis of Hardrock finishers comparing their finish
    Message 1 of 3 , Mar 26, 2001
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      Hans-Deiter wrote (below) that the best strategy is to maintain equal
      splits. Blake Wood has done an analysis of Hardrock finishers comparing
      their finish times with their ratio of first half to second half Hardrock
      times. There seems to be essentially NO correlation between even splits
      and finish time. Note that this is quite different from the likelihood of
      finishing Hardrock for some initial pace. The only claim is that IF you
      finish Hardrock, your finish time does NOT seem to depend on how fast or
      slowly you went out.

      Charlie Thorn

      Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 10:45:25 +0200
      From: Hans-Dieter Weisshaar <HD.WEISSHAAR@...>
      Subject: Re: Front-loaded walking for an Ultra

      Dear Matt,
      dear Karl,

      I agree to Matts analysis and mostly to Karl's too.

      It is common sense at least within German trainers, that to run a marathon with
      equal splits will bring the best results.
      If I want to run a "fast" marathon, I start heart beat controlled (my max is
      171/min) with about 150 - 155 (beats per minute) and try to keep that up until
      20 miles and add more and more until about 165 to the finish. This is mostly
      painful.
      To run a fun marathon I run the first 10 km with 140 to 145, km 10-20 with
      145-150, the next 10 km 150-155 and the remaining km full power. This kind of
      marathon is about 10-15 minutes slower, but much more fun. Karl mentioned a
      very
      important psycological mental fact: feeling good at the end and passing
      hundreds
      of other runners. The greatest: to pass those runners who have passed you
      earlier: "Here I am again!" This gives you wings!
      I divide my marathons into two categories: the better one is a marathon, in
      which I was over all not passed by any runners beyond 21,1 km !

      The same is true for the 100 miles: Equal splits.
      Look at the splits of a lap 100 miles run, for instance the five laps of Rocky
      Racoon 2001. Most of the runners start very fast (as usually at a marathon) and
      slow down more and more, with pain and tired, disappointed, suffering etc. This
      year I had a great RR.

      In theory the model of 50 minutes walking and 10 minutes running sounds nice,
      but in a trail race Matt is right: the profile dictates your speed. I love to
      save some power for the later parts, so I always start very slow. In the
      beginning of a 100 miles run I often have been the last one, chasing the pack!
    • Matt Mahoney
      ... You can see the results at http://www.run100s.com/HR/hrh99statsm.gif These were for 1999 in the clockwise direction, the same way we will be running this
      Message 2 of 3 , Mar 26, 2001
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        --- "Charles T. Thorn" <thorn@...> wrote:
        > Hans-Deiter wrote (below) that the best strategy is
        > to maintain equal
        > splits. Blake Wood has done an analysis of Hardrock
        > finishers comparing
        > their finish times with their ratio of first half to
        > second half Hardrock
        > times. There seems to be essentially NO correlation
        > between even splits
        > and finish time. Note that this is quite different
        > from the likelihood of
        > finishing Hardrock for some initial pace. The only
        > claim is that IF you
        > finish Hardrock, your finish time does NOT seem to
        > depend on how fast or
        > slowly you went out.

        You can see the results at
        http://www.run100s.com/HR/hrh99statsm.gif
        These were for 1999 in the clockwise direction, the
        same way we will be running this year.

        Everyone ran the second half slower. Of course this
        can be explained because the first half (to Ouray) is
        downhill. (Well, there were 4 small hills). Also,
        this was done almost all in daylight.

        Notice that for the top times (30-32 hours) that the
        splits are more even. In particular, the fastest
        (Blake) is also the most even.


        =====
        -- Matt Mahoney, matmahoney@...

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      • Charles T. Thorn
        Matt is correct that ALL finishers completed the second half slower than the first half. However, I really don t think we should dignify the very short
        Message 3 of 3 , Mar 26, 2001
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          Matt is correct that ALL finishers completed the second half slower than
          the first half. However, I really don't think we should dignify the very
          short minimal grade rises in the first half as "4 small hills."

          Charlie Thorn

          >--- "Charles T. Thorn" <thorn@...> wrote:
          >> Hans-Deiter wrote (below) that the best strategy is
          >> to maintain equal
          >> splits. Blake Wood has done an analysis of Hardrock
          >> finishers comparing
          >> their finish times with their ratio of first half to
          >> second half Hardrock
          >> times. There seems to be essentially NO correlation
          >> between even splits
          >> and finish time. Note that this is quite different
          >> from the likelihood of
          >> finishing Hardrock for some initial pace. The only
          >> claim is that IF you
          >> finish Hardrock, your finish time does NOT seem to
          >> depend on how fast or
          >> slowly you went out.
          >
          >You can see the results at
          >http://www.run100s.com/HR/hrh99statsm.gif
          >These were for 1999 in the clockwise direction, the
          >same way we will be running this year.
          >
          >Everyone ran the second half slower. Of course this
          >can be explained because the first half (to Ouray) is
          >downhill. (Well, there were 4 small hills). Also,
          >this was done almost all in daylight.
          >
          >Notice that for the top times (30-32 hours) that the
          >splits are more even. In particular, the fastest
          >(Blake) is also the most even.
          >
          >
          >=====
          >-- Matt Mahoney, matmahoney@...
          >
          >__________________________________________________
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