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Re: [hr100] course change?

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  • Matt Mahoney
    ... It sounds like you re describing Nolan s 14. I think the new course through Grizzly Gulch is going to make the course faster (unfortunately). I climbed
    Message 1 of 10 , Mar 7, 2001
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      --- Ulrich Kamm <ultrawalk@...> wrote:
      > Hi Charlie,
      >
      > I have to leave in a minute. I don't know yet where
      > the possibly "forbidden"
      > area is. But there are so many mountains around
      > Silverton - it shouldn't be
      > too difficult to create a new HR course. If detailed
      > planning of such a
      > change, if it becomes necessary already for this
      > year's race, wouldn't be
      > possible, let's do a low key event with very few
      > people -like in the "good
      > old days", with map and compass and only vry few aid
      > stations (crews). I'm
      > sure you it would be a lot of fun for you to design
      > a new course.

      It sounds like you're describing Nolan's 14.

      I think the new course through Grizzly Gulch is going
      to make the course faster (unfortunately). I climbed
      Handies from that side a few years ago. The descent
      is runnable all the way into Sherman.


      =====
      -- Matt Mahoney, matmahoney@...

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    • Rich Limacher
      Well, friends, I am finally convinced. Our friend and head of the all-volunteer Trailmarking Army, Gen. Chas. T. Thorn, USTA, is as literarily powerful as he
      Message 2 of 10 , Mar 7, 2001
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        Well, friends, I am finally convinced. Our friend and head
        of the all-volunteer Trailmarking Army, Gen. Chas. T. Thorn,
        USTA, is as literarily powerful as he is climbingly strong.
        His so-called "diatribe" is, in fact, a most distinguished
        literary essay, and I am personally just as proud to read it
        as I am to climb behind him.

        But let's not kid ourselves. This rhetoric is long overdue.
        And I'm hoping those of us with "the writing bent" aren't
        too late to start lobbying.

        The way *I* see it (**DISCLAIMER**/personal-opinion-only all
        over this e-mail) the way the Colorado Environmental
        Coalition sees it is that they think they'll make a better
        name for themselves by ridding the wilderness of EVERYTHING
        than they think will accrue to their credit for exempting a
        "nutcase" event like the Hardrock Hundred Endurance Run.
        Having witnessed tinpan politics for years and embittered
        years as a local newspaper reporter, I've now reached a
        point where the mere mention of ANY newly elected or
        appointed political entity makes me want to puke. I think I
        know (in my non-humble opinion) the petty motive that drives
        these demigods, and I don't like it. In the end (also in my
        opinion) the work they do accrues only to their own benefit,
        and the common good be damned.

        In my opinion, any newly designated Wilderness Area amounts
        to a latter-day setting aside of an Indian reservation--and
        look at the enriched landscapes THEY've been given. Yes, I
        agree with Charlie that setting land like this aside is GOOD
        for the land. And frankly, when I see all the ruins and
        mine dumps and rusted junk our forefathers littered the San
        Juans with, I'm thankful silver mining has not continued. I
        believe, to paraphrase Lincoln, it is the lesser angels of
        our nature causing us to pollute our planet (but always in
        the name of "progress"); and all you need do is join
        Charlie's Army to see the job our grand- and
        great-grandpappies did to unleash their angels all over our
        nature.

        Here's an idea. Why doesn't the CEC *clean up* the place
        FIRST, and THEN declare it "off limits"? I'd pay good money
        to watch some cig-smoking politico lugging down a rusted ore
        cart from the abandoned Buffalo Boy Mine.

        I have a private theory. I'm thinking that Mars was once a
        vastly thriving civilization, whose inhabitants--in the name
        of "progress" certainly--poisoned their entire planet
        umpteen billion years ago. We see now what is left.
        Personally, I'd like not to leave our Earth in quite the
        same way. So, it is indeed good to preserve as much of the
        Wilderness as we possibly can.

        On the other hand, who are we preserving it for?

        If the ecological zealots don't want NOBODY trodding on
        their precious tracts, who's gonna see our birds and our
        bees? Or, how 'bout our elk and our moose? I say, if our
        Wilderness is ever to be appreciated and thereby preserved,
        we hikers and climbers had better be allowed to plod there.
        If it weren't for us, or Charlie and his panoramic camera,
        who would ever even know what is in fact being preserved?
        Do you think the politicians who rule as part of these
        committees and panels and coalitions and things EVER HIKE
        ANYWHERE??? I don't. I think they think they're protecting
        our environment by driving carbon monoxide-spewing Jeeps.

        And I would challenge every one of THEM (just as I used to
        demand access to every record in village halls citing the
        "Freedom of Information Act") to follow any of *us* and
        prove to any congress anywhere that WE are the cause of ANY
        damage whatsoever being done to their declared "Wilderness."

        --We don't shoot. (Except cameras.)
        --We don't bate-and-hook. (Except maybe wide-eyed naive
        post-marathon runners, such as the formerly huffy author of
        the piece you're reading right here.)
        --We don't trap. (Except maybe by omitting a couple trail
        markers now and then... :)
        --We don't remove samples for display cases or do taxidermy
        on any live thing for our "living" rooms. (Except maybe for
        the just-stuffed author of this thing here, who's now on
        display for his bride in his den. :)
        --We don't leave anything behind. (Except maybe a few swear
        words, and those are all aural--not carved or spray-painted
        onto the landscape.)
        --And we don't allow *just anyone* to do this. (The HRH
        organizers, however, might possibly have overlooked this
        principle by admitting yours truly. :)

        But the argument is always: "If we make an exception in
        YOUR case, we'll have to make exceptions in ALL cases."

        To which I submit: Not so! Says who? I allow as to how it
        is perfectly in keeping with keeping the Wilderness wild to
        allow wild folks like us to frolic there. It is my belief
        that ANYONE should be allowed to be wild in the Wilderness,
        provided they all do everything that's itemized two
        paragraphs above. No exceptions. If you don't shoot, fish,
        trap, kill, take, or leave anything, you and your qualified
        runners, hikers, and climbers ought to be free to move about
        the country.

        Is there anyone who wants to argue with this?

        You bet there is. They're called politicians. And if they
        owe favors to people who don't like us "running around all
        night in our underwear," and if *those* are the people who
        appointed or elected them or GAVE THEM MONEY to "help their
        campaigns" in the first place, who do you think is going to
        lose this fight?

        Frankly, I hope it doesn't happen; but I'm afraid, in the
        end, that it will. To borrow another line from Jim
        Morrison, "they got the guns, but we got the numbers." And
        *they* will win UNLESS we show them our numbers.

        If everyone reading this will write just ONE letter to a
        Congressman (or, of course, Congresswoman), our message
        might just have a chance of getting through. Why? Because
        Congress, and Colorado, will think that WE control more
        votes than this aforementioned "they" do.

        I, for one, have always believed in the power of words.
        Look at how many of 'em I just got YOU to read!

        Yes, in this case, the cathode ray tube is indeed mightier
        than the caucus. And our cards and letters to
        our--supposedly, so far--democratic representative
        government will do more good in the end than all the
        high-minded edicts, favors owed, and bribes received under
        the table can ever hope to accomplish by stopping the
        Hardrock Run.

        Does anyone remember a couple years back when nOrm & bOard
        urged everyone to write their Congresspeople in order to
        save No Hands Bridge? Well? Guess what. A whole lot of us
        did write and, last I heard, that bridge is still there.
        (I'll tell you for sure after I run Western States this
        summer.)

        So now let me take Charlie's place on the soapbox. Do NOT
        take this stuff lightly. If you or your children *ever*
        hope to run Hardrock, write NOW.

        Actually, you know what might be easier? Let's all "do
        tanning" and declare ourselves the Silverfeet Tribe. We'll
        petition the Bureau of Indian Affairs. We'll cite broken
        treaties (or hypocritical edicts). We'll crawl across these
        mountains on Wounded Knees. And who knows? They might just
        think the land is worthless and give it to us. We'll call
        our place: "The Thorn Reservation."

        Rich Limacher
        TheTroubadour@...


        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Charles T. Thorn <thorn@...>
        To: <hr100@yahoogroups.com>
        Cc: <cappis@...>; <spat@...>
        Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 5:50 PM


        You can all please read it for yourselves.
        And thanks, Charlie, for putting it on my screen in the
        first place.
      • RLAFORME@LA-TIERRA.com
        Here ?hear? ! Sonny boy; You is certainly coming of age ! But I just don t get it, you are suddenly older than your dear old Ma. How does that work ? Will I
        Message 3 of 10 , Mar 7, 2001
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          Here ?hear? ! Sonny boy;
          You is certainly coming of age ! But I just don't get it, you are suddenly
          older than your dear old Ma. How does that work ? Will I be able to catch
          back up in June ? Will you wait for me ? If I send a letter to a politico ?
          I am one of the great procrastinators, but I promise i'll do it.
          will I see you at Zane Grey? Do you remember your ol' ma ?

          Ginny La Forme rlaforme@...
          325 Onate St. 505-753-3291
          Espanola, NM 87532 505-753-8340
        • RLAFORME@LA-TIERRA.com
          Sorry, meant to send that to Rich, not the group. Ginny La Forme rlaforme@la-tierra.com 325 Onate St. 505-753-3291
          Message 4 of 10 , Mar 7, 2001
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            Sorry,
            meant to send that to Rich, not the group.

            Ginny La Forme rlaforme@...
            325 Onate St. 505-753-3291
            Espanola, NM 87532 505-753-8340
          • robert boeder
            What the hell is this all about?
            Message 5 of 10 , Mar 8, 2001
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              What the hell is this all about?

              At 09:39 PM 3/7/2001 -0700, you wrote:
              >Here ?hear? ! Sonny boy;
              >You is certainly coming of age ! But I just don't get it, you are suddenly
              >older than your dear old Ma. How does that work ? Will I be able to catch
              >back up in June ? Will you wait for me ? If I send a letter to a politico ?
              >I am one of the great procrastinators, but I promise i'll do it.
              > will I see you at Zane Grey? Do you remember your ol' ma ?
              >
              >Ginny La Forme rlaforme@...
              >325 Onate St. 505-753-3291
              >Espanola, NM 87532 505-753-8340
              >
              >
              >
              >To Post a message, send it to: hr100@...
              >
              >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: hr100-unsubscribe@...
              >
              >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              >
              >
              >
            • Rich Limacher
              Aw, hell, Bob... it s just a joke !!! ... [Explanation follows, but, as with every joke, once you ve explained it, you ve killed the humor. Let that serve
              Message 6 of 10 , Mar 9, 2001
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                Aw, hell, Bob... it's just a "joke"!!!

                :-)

                [Explanation follows, but, as with every joke, once you've
                explained it, you've killed the humor. Let that serve as a
                *CAUTION* and *WARNING*. If you do not wish to subject
                yourself to such unreasonable, long-winded explanation, stop
                reading now. :-]

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: robert boeder <boedr@...>
                To: <hr100@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 8:30 PM
                Subject: Re: [hr100] course change?


                > What the hell is this all about?
                >
                > At 09:39 PM 3/7/2001 -0700, you wrote:
                > >Here ?hear? ! Sonny boy;

                Here Ginny is assuming a motherly role. She actually is a
                mother, of course, but not mine. Even though, of course, if
                I were a slightly younger man and genetic engineering had
                progressed (there's that term again) to the point where it
                could be retroactive, I would certainly fix my genes to
                align with hers so as to be biologically possible to be her
                son. And then, dammit, watch out! My ultra finishes would
                dramatically improve!


                > >You is certainly coming of age !

                Here Ginny is referring to my own biological nativity. It
                is usually celebrated, if not on December 25th, then
                certainly March 2.


                > > But I just don't get it, you are suddenly
                > >older than your dear old Ma. How does that work ?

                Here she is indirectly referring to the biological fact that
                she and I were actually born in the very same year. We may
                not, at this point, wish to divulge which year that actually
                was. We'd like you to believe, however, that it might
                possibly have been 1975 or shortly thereafter.

                The "being older than her" refers to our birth months. Mine
                is March and hers is June (I think). Thus, in March of '75
                I burst first upon the grand scene of Post-Vietnam-War
                Enlightenment, and she followed a scant three months later.
                The world has been a better place ever since.


                > > Will I be able to catch
                > > back up in June ?

                Ah, yes. I believe now her birth month is June. And the
                answer to her inquiry is an obvious "yes." This is due to
                modern enlightened accountable society's penchant for
                rounding. In my case, society rounds up, and in her case
                rounds down. Thus, in June, we shall both be 26 years old.


                > > Will you wait for me ?

                Again, obviously, "yes" is the answer.


                > > If I send a letter to a politico ?

                Here Ginny is making a "bribe." She is offering to heed the
                call of myself and others to begin a massive letter-writing
                campaign to various and sundry pseudo-political entities in
                Colorado, and Congress, to try like crazy either to exempt
                or grandfather the Hardrock Hundred Endurance Run from this
                dubiously proposed "Wilderness Study Area" that certain
                pseudo-politico caucuses are proposing to ram down our
                throats. Or, perhaps the cumulative effect of our
                epistolary efforts will result in those cig-smoking fat cats
                pretty much leaving us and the beautiful San Juan Mountain
                Range alone.


                > >I am one of the great procrastinators, but I promise i'll
                do it.

                Here Ginny is reaffirming her good intentions and steeling
                her resolve to undertake a truly Herculean effort on her
                part, and write a little letter. But, of course, she'll do
                it later.


                (C'mon, Ginny, smile! :-)


                > > will I see you at Zane Grey?

                Here she is alluding to the upcoming Zane Grey Highline
                50-mile ultramarathon to be run somewhere in the remote
                canyon wilderness areas of Arizona, obviously already
                successfully grandfathered from any newly-appointed
                pseudo-politicos and their zealous efforts to prevent
                organized fee-collecting events from ever happening again in
                their wild canyons.


                > > Do you remember your ol' ma ?

                Here again, Ginny is alluding to "our little joke." Which,
                by now, WE HOPE YOU ALL "GET"!!!!!!!


                Your badass black sheep of this particular family,

                Rich
                TheTroubleMaker @ politicalnightmare-dot-com
              • Curiel, Tyler
                Rich, You re killing me.* I need to stop laughing and get back to work. See you at ZG! /TC *WARNING. This is a joke. My actual risk of death from reading your
                Message 7 of 10 , Mar 9, 2001
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                  Rich, You're killing me.* I need to stop laughing and get back to work. See
                  you at ZG! /TC

                  *WARNING. This is a joke. My actual risk of death from reading your post is
                  <0.0000000000001256334.
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