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Re: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds

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  • Steve Kral
    I wholly agree Chris, controversial to say the least is an understatement. Still, abolishing slavery and giving the women the right to vote were all
    Message 1 of 25 , Oct 22, 2010
    • 0 Attachment
      I wholly agree Chris, 'controversial to say the least' is an understatement. Still, abolishing slavery and giving the women the right to vote were all controversial ideas in their day...one even started a war...but somehow progress seems to stem from progressive ideas.

      --- On Thu, 10/21/10, Chris Twiggs <Twiggsc@...> wrote:

      From: Chris Twiggs <Twiggsc@...>
      Subject: Re: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds
      To: "hr100@yahoogroups.com" <hr100@yahoogroups.com>
      Date: Thursday, October 21, 2010, 8:43 PM
















       









      As I understand it now, dnf's get no extra tickets compared to wait listers who get one. Further penalizing dnf'ers would be a controversial board decision to say the least. We all start HR100 with the intention of finishing, which I don't believe is the case in some other ultras. I choose not to second-guess anyone who decides to drop, and I certainly would not wish to take away tickets they had earned through other finishes or other wait list experiences.



      (Autofill wanted wait listers to be wait lusters, which I now propose become their official designation.)



      Chris from flat Florida



      Sent from my iPhone



      On Oct 21, 2010, at 8:34 PM, Steve Kral <bvstablemail@...> wrote:



      > They be better if people who DNFed any time in the past 3 years had one ticket taken away for each such occurrence....

      > stevekral

      > --- On Thu, 10/21/10, David Clark <irishsailsman@...> wrote:

      >

      > From: David Clark <irishsailsman@...>

      > Subject: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds

      > To: hr100@yahoogroups.com

      > Date: Thursday, October 21, 2010, 6:03 PM

      >

      >

      >

      > Does anyone have any information on when we will be able to submit an application for lottery?

      >

      > Also- historically, what are the odds of actually getting in?

      >

      > Thanks.

      >

      > David Clark

      >

      > Max Muscle Sports Nutrition

      >

      > Longmont

      >

      > (C) 720-275-2197

      >

      > -Outreach Manager

      >

      > -NESTA Certified Sports Nutrition Coach

      >

      > -RRCA Certified Running Coach

      >

      > - Sent from my iPhone

      >

      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

      >

      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

      >

      >



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






























      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Michael Bur
      Interesting. How are you defining progressive here and more to the point, what are the aspects of the current HR lottery system that you feel are not
      Message 2 of 25 , Oct 22, 2010
      • 0 Attachment
        Interesting.

        How are you defining "progressive" here and more to the point, what are the aspects of the current HR lottery system that you feel are not "progressive"? The DNFer is already effectively penalized WRT to a waitlister in that if they start and don't finish, they don't get the ticket; so the following year, the waitlister starts off in a better position when compared to the person who DNFed(all other things being equal).

        As far as "progressive" goes, other than the MMT lottery(http://www.vhtrc.org/mmt/entry.htm), which by way of full disclosure, I helped design, I don't know of any other 100 entry that has put as much thought into their design in terms of consideration and balancing all of the various aspects, interests and stakeholders of the event. I know from experience that there are many, many aspects to consider when designing an entry system for an event that is oversubscribed. Some of them are in direct opposition to each other. It isn't easy trying to get them all to balance out in a "fair" way. It is also important to note here that what one may considered "fair" to them as an individual may not(and often is not!) the same as what the board/rd considers "fair" for the overall event.

        In looking at what we(the VHTRC) did with MMT, I think there are other, far more "progressive" ideas that HR could incorporate to their lottery/entry before they resorted to taking away tickets from folks who DNFed.

        Best,
        Mike Bur(former VHTRC president, 4x Hardrocker)
        Kensington, MD

        --- On Fri, 10/22/10, Steve Kral <bvstablemail@...> wrote:

        > From: Steve Kral <bvstablemail@...>
        > Subject: Re: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds
        > To: hr100@yahoogroups.com
        > Date: Friday, October 22, 2010, 12:43 PM
        > I wholly agree Chris, 'controversial
        > to say the least' is an understatement. Still, abolishing
        > slavery and giving the women the right to vote were all
        > controversial ideas in their day...one even started a
        > war...but somehow progress seems to stem from progressive
        > ideas.
        >
        > --- On Thu, 10/21/10, Chris Twiggs <Twiggsc@...>
        > wrote:
        >
        > From: Chris Twiggs <Twiggsc@...>
        > Subject: Re: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds
        > To: "hr100@yahoogroups.com"
        > <hr100@yahoogroups.com>
        > Date: Thursday, October 21, 2010, 8:43 PM
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >  
        >
        >
        >
        >  
        >
        >
        >    
        >      
        >      
        >       As I understand it now, dnf's get no
        > extra tickets compared to wait listers who get one. Further
        > penalizing dnf'ers would be a controversial board decision
        > to say the least. We all start HR100 with the intention of
        > finishing, which I don't believe is the case in some other
        > ultras. I choose not to second-guess anyone who decides to
        > drop, and I certainly would not wish to take away tickets
        > they had earned through other finishes or other wait list
        > experiences.
        >
        >
        >
        > (Autofill wanted wait listers to be wait lusters, which I
        > now propose become their official designation.)
        >
        >
        >
        > Chris from flat Florida
        >
        >
        >
        > Sent from my iPhone
        >
        >
        >
        > On Oct 21, 2010, at 8:34 PM, Steve Kral <bvstablemail@...>
        > wrote:
        >
        >
        >
        > > They be better if people who DNFed any time in the
        > past 3 years had one ticket taken away for each such
        > occurrence....
        >
        > > stevekral
        >
        > > --- On Thu, 10/21/10, David Clark <irishsailsman@...>
        > wrote:
        >
        > >
        >
        > > From: David Clark <irishsailsman@...>
        >
        > > Subject: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds
        >
        > > To: hr100@yahoogroups.com
        >
        > > Date: Thursday, October 21, 2010, 6:03 PM
        >
        > >
        >
        > > 
        >
        > >
        >
        > > Does anyone have any information on when we will be
        > able to submit an application for lottery?
        >
        > >
        >
        > > Also- historically, what are the odds of actually
        > getting in?
        >
        > >
        >
        > > Thanks.
        >
        > >
        >
        > > David Clark
        >
        > >
        >
        > > Max Muscle Sports Nutrition
        >
        > >
        >
        > > Longmont
        >
        > >
        >
        > > (C) 720-275-2197
        >
        > >
        >
        > > -Outreach Manager
        >
        > >
        >
        > > -NESTA Certified Sports Nutrition Coach
        >
        > >
        >
        > > -RRCA Certified Running Coach
        >
        > >
        >
        > > - Sent from my iPhone
        >
        > >
        >
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        > >
        >
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
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        >    
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        >      
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > To Post a message, send it to:   hr100@...
        >
        > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: hr100-unsubscribe@...!
        > Groups Links
        >
        >
        >     hr100-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
        >
        >
        >
      • Andy Hewat
        I think the HR entry system is very civilized. While the lottery has been kind to me, I like the weighted system and the auto entry for 5 time finishers. I
        Message 3 of 25 , Oct 23, 2010
        • 0 Attachment
          I think the HR entry system is very civilized. While the lottery has been kind to me, I like the weighted system and the auto entry for 5 time finishers. I could see the benefit of saving a handful of spots for the elite to ensure high quality at the pointy end but that would make it just that little bit tougher for the rest of us. I do find myself looking on enviously at those 5 time finishers at the presentation.
          Andy (3 from 3)


          --- On Sat, 23/10/10, Michael Bur <mjcbur@...> wrote:

          From: Michael Bur <mjcbur@...>
          Subject: Re: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds
          To: hr100@yahoogroups.com
          Received: Saturday, 23 October, 2010, 5:33 AM
















           











          Interesting.



          How are you defining "progressive" here and more to the point, what are the aspects of the current HR lottery system that you feel are not "progressive"? The DNFer is already effectively penalized WRT to a waitlister in that if they start and don't finish, they don't get the ticket; so the following year, the waitlister starts off in a better position when compared to the person who DNFed(all other things being equal).



          As far as "progressive" goes, other than the MMT lottery(http://www.vhtrc.org/mmt/entry.htm), which by way of full disclosure, I helped design, I don't know of any other 100 entry that has put as much thought into their design in terms of consideration and balancing all of the various aspects, interests and stakeholders of the event. I know from experience that there are many, many aspects to consider when designing an entry system for an event that is oversubscribed. Some of them are in direct opposition to each other. It isn't easy trying to get them all to balance out in a "fair" way. It is also important to note here that what one may considered "fair" to them as an individual may not(and often is not!) the same as what the board/rd considers "fair" for the overall event.



          In looking at what we(the VHTRC) did with MMT, I think there are other, far more "progressive" ideas that HR could incorporate to their lottery/entry before they resorted to taking away tickets from folks who DNFed.



          Best,

          Mike Bur(former VHTRC president, 4x Hardrocker)

          Kensington, MD



          --- On Fri, 10/22/10, Steve Kral <bvstablemail@...> wrote:



          > From: Steve Kral <bvstablemail@...>

          > Subject: Re: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds

          > To: hr100@yahoogroups.com

          > Date: Friday, October 22, 2010, 12:43 PM

          > I wholly agree Chris, 'controversial

          > to say the least' is an understatement. Still, abolishing

          > slavery and giving the women the right to vote were all

          > controversial ideas in their day...one even started a

          > war...but somehow progress seems to stem from progressive

          > ideas.

          >

          > --- On Thu, 10/21/10, Chris Twiggs <Twiggsc@...>

          > wrote:

          >

          > From: Chris Twiggs <Twiggsc@...>

          > Subject: Re: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds

          > To: "hr100@yahoogroups.com"

          > <hr100@yahoogroups.com>

          > Date: Thursday, October 21, 2010, 8:43 PM

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >  

          >

          >

          >

          >  

          >

          >

          >    

          >      

          >      

          >       As I understand it now, dnf's get no

          > extra tickets compared to wait listers who get one. Further

          > penalizing dnf'ers would be a controversial board decision

          > to say the least. We all start HR100 with the intention of

          > finishing, which I don't believe is the case in some other

          > ultras. I choose not to second-guess anyone who decides to

          > drop, and I certainly would not wish to take away tickets

          > they had earned through other finishes or other wait list

          > experiences.

          >

          >

          >

          > (Autofill wanted wait listers to be wait lusters, which I

          > now propose become their official designation.)

          >

          >

          >

          > Chris from flat Florida

          >

          >

          >

          > Sent from my iPhone

          >

          >

          >

          > On Oct 21, 2010, at 8:34 PM, Steve Kral <bvstablemail@...>

          > wrote:

          >

          >

          >

          > > They be better if people who DNFed any time in the

          > past 3 years had one ticket taken away for each such

          > occurrence....

          >

          > > stevekral

          >

          > > --- On Thu, 10/21/10, David Clark <irishsailsman@...>

          > wrote:

          >

          > >

          >

          > > From: David Clark <irishsailsman@...>

          >

          > > Subject: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds

          >

          > > To: hr100@yahoogroups.com

          >

          > > Date: Thursday, October 21, 2010, 6:03 PM

          >

          > >

          >

          > > 

          >

          > >

          >

          > > Does anyone have any information on when we will be

          > able to submit an application for lottery?

          >

          > >

          >

          > > Also- historically, what are the odds of actually

          > getting in?

          >

          > >

          >

          > > Thanks.

          >

          > >

          >

          > > David Clark

          >

          > >

          >

          > > Max Muscle Sports Nutrition

          >

          > >

          >

          > > Longmont

          >

          > >

          >

          > > (C) 720-275-2197

          >

          > >

          >

          > > -Outreach Manager

          >

          > >

          >

          > > -NESTA Certified Sports Nutrition Coach

          >

          > >

          >

          > > -RRCA Certified Running Coach

          >

          > >

          >

          > > - Sent from my iPhone

          >

          > >

          >

          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

          >

          > >

          >

          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

          >

          > >

          >

          > >

          >

          >

          >

          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >

          >    

          >      

          >

          >    

          >    

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          >  

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          >

          >

          >      

          >

          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

          >

          >

          >

          > ------------------------------------

          >

          > To Post a message, send it to:   hr100@...

          >

          > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: hr100-unsubscribe@...!

          > Groups Links

          >

          >

          >     hr100-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

          >

          >

          >






























          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Chris Twiggs
          You ll have that five timer finishing jacket in no time, Andy. Sent from my iPhone ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          Message 4 of 25 , Oct 23, 2010
          • 0 Attachment
            You'll have that five timer finishing jacket in no time, Andy.

            Sent from my iPhone

            On Oct 23, 2010, at 9:38 AM, Andy Hewat <hewat.andy@...> wrote:

            > I think the HR entry system is very civilized. While the lottery has been kind to me, I like the weighted system and the auto entry for 5 time finishers. I could see the benefit of saving a handful of spots for the elite to ensure high quality at the pointy end but that would make it just that little bit tougher for the rest of us. I do find myself looking on enviously at those 5 time finishers at the presentation.
            > Andy (3 from 3)
            >
            > --- On Sat, 23/10/10, Michael Bur <mjcbur@...> wrote:
            >
            > From: Michael Bur <mjcbur@...>
            > Subject: Re: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds
            > To: hr100@yahoogroups.com
            > Received: Saturday, 23 October, 2010, 5:33 AM
            >
            >
            >
            > Interesting.
            >
            > How are you defining "progressive" here and more to the point, what are the aspects of the current HR lottery system that you feel are not "progressive"? The DNFer is already effectively penalized WRT to a waitlister in that if they start and don't finish, they don't get the ticket; so the following year, the waitlister starts off in a better position when compared to the person who DNFed(all other things being equal).
            >
            > As far as "progressive" goes, other than the MMT lottery(http://www.vhtrc.org/mmt/entry.htm), which by way of full disclosure, I helped design, I don't know of any other 100 entry that has put as much thought into their design in terms of consideration and balancing all of the various aspects, interests and stakeholders of the event. I know from experience that there are many, many aspects to consider when designing an entry system for an event that is oversubscribed. Some of them are in direct opposition to each other. It isn't easy trying to get them all to balance out in a "fair" way. It is also important to note here that what one may considered "fair" to them as an individual may not(and often is not!) the same as what the board/rd considers "fair" for the overall event.
            >
            > In looking at what we(the VHTRC) did with MMT, I think there are other, far more "progressive" ideas that HR could incorporate to their lottery/entry before they resorted to taking away tickets from folks who DNFed.
            >
            > Best,
            >
            > Mike Bur(former VHTRC president, 4x Hardrocker)
            >
            > Kensington, MD
            >
            > --- On Fri, 10/22/10, Steve Kral <bvstablemail@...> wrote:
            >
            > > From: Steve Kral <bvstablemail@...>
            >
            > > Subject: Re: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds
            >
            > > To: hr100@yahoogroups.com
            >
            > > Date: Friday, October 22, 2010, 12:43 PM
            >
            > > I wholly agree Chris, 'controversial
            >
            > > to say the least' is an understatement. Still, abolishing
            >
            > > slavery and giving the women the right to vote were all
            >
            > > controversial ideas in their day...one even started a
            >
            > > war...but somehow progress seems to stem from progressive
            >
            > > ideas.
            >
            > >
            >
            > > --- On Thu, 10/21/10, Chris Twiggs <Twiggsc@...>
            >
            > > wrote:
            >
            > >
            >
            > > From: Chris Twiggs <Twiggsc@...>
            >
            > > Subject: Re: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds
            >
            > > To: "hr100@yahoogroups.com"
            >
            > > <hr100@yahoogroups.com>
            >
            > > Date: Thursday, October 21, 2010, 8:43 PM
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
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            > >
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            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > > As I understand it now, dnf's get no
            >
            > > extra tickets compared to wait listers who get one. Further
            >
            > > penalizing dnf'ers would be a controversial board decision
            >
            > > to say the least. We all start HR100 with the intention of
            >
            > > finishing, which I don't believe is the case in some other
            >
            > > ultras. I choose not to second-guess anyone who decides to
            >
            > > drop, and I certainly would not wish to take away tickets
            >
            > > they had earned through other finishes or other wait list
            >
            > > experiences.
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > > (Autofill wanted wait listers to be wait lusters, which I
            >
            > > now propose become their official designation.)
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > > Chris from flat Florida
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > > Sent from my iPhone
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > > On Oct 21, 2010, at 8:34 PM, Steve Kral <bvstablemail@...>
            >
            > > wrote:
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > > > They be better if people who DNFed any time in the
            >
            > > past 3 years had one ticket taken away for each such
            >
            > > occurrence....
            >
            > >
            >
            > > > stevekral
            >
            > >
            >
            > > > --- On Thu, 10/21/10, David Clark <irishsailsman@...>
            >
            > > wrote:
            >
            > >
            >
            > > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > > > From: David Clark <irishsailsman@...>
            >
            > >
            >
            > > > Subject: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds
            >
            > >
            >
            > > > To: hr100@yahoogroups.com
            >
            > >
            >
            > > > Date: Thursday, October 21, 2010, 6:03 PM
            >
            > >
            >
            > > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > > > Does anyone have any information on when we will be
            >
            > > able to submit an application for lottery?
            >
            > >
            >
            > > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > > > Also- historically, what are the odds of actually
            >
            > > getting in?
            >
            > >
            >
            > > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > > > Thanks.
            >
            > >
            >
            > > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > > > David Clark
            >
            > >
            >
            > > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > > > Max Muscle Sports Nutrition
            >
            > >
            >
            > > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > > > Longmont
            >
            > >
            >
            > > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > > > (C) 720-275-2197
            >
            > >
            >
            > > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > > > -Outreach Manager
            >
            > >
            >
            > > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > > > -NESTA Certified Sports Nutrition Coach
            >
            > >
            >
            > > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > > > -RRCA Certified Running Coach
            >
            > >
            >
            > > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > > > - Sent from my iPhone
            >
            > >
            >
            > > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            > >
            >
            > > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            > >
            >
            > > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            > >
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            > >
            >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > > ------------------------------------
            >
            > >
            >
            > > To Post a message, send it to: hr100@...
            >
            > >
            >
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