Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds

Expand Messages
  • Matt Mahoney
    ... Some people don t consider a 5K a race. They are perfectly happy to walk or jog it with a group of friends in 40 minutes and get a T-shirt and some food
    Message 1 of 25 , Oct 22, 2010
    • 0 Attachment
      Steve Pero wrote:
      > It's my understanding that Hardrock never was or never will be considered
      >a "race".

      Some people don't consider a 5K a race. They are perfectly happy to walk or jog
      it with a group of friends in 40 minutes and get a T-shirt and some food
      afterward and not worry about the awards.

      Others look at Hardrock and see:
      - A start line
      - A finish line
      - A prescribed and marked course
      - A clock
      - An official says "go"
      - Finish results
      - Awards based on finish order
      which sure looks to me like a race. (The fact that a 40 minute 5K pace would set
      a course record is irrelevant).

      And if it's not a race, then why are there pacers? Some say it is a safety
      issue. Sorry, I have to call BS. In a typical big city marathon with 30,000
      runners, you can statistically expect one death. If all of those runners had
      pacers, then the runners might feel safer, but you would instead average two
      deaths. Elite runners use pacers because when you are chasing six figure prize
      money at 4:48/mile, wind resistance matters. I fail to see how it matters when
      you are crawling up Grant-Swamp pass. Any advantage will probably be offset by
      your pacer accidentally pushing rocks down on you. (Ask David Horton about his
      broken finger).

      IMHO pacing is just a way to run half the race for free, either because you
      didn't get in the lottery or because you weren't trained well enough to run the
      whole thing.

      -- Matt Mahoney, matmahoney@...




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Don
      I ve never liked the basic unfairness of the weighted lottery I don t think anyone should have preferential treatment,Don Platt Sent from my iPhone On Oct
      Message 2 of 25 , Oct 22, 2010
      • 0 Attachment
        I've never liked the basic unfairness of the "weighted" lottery I don' t think anyone should have preferential treatment,Don Platt

        Sent from my iPhone

        On Oct 21, 2010, at 6:43 PM, Chris Twiggs <Twiggsc@...> wrote:

        We all start HR100 with the intention of finishing,= which I don't believe is the case in some other ultras. I choose not to se= cond-guess anyone who decides to drop, and I certainly would not wish to ta= ke away tickets they had earned through other finishes or other wait list e= xperiences.=20 (Autofill wanted wait listers to be wait lusters, which I now propose becom= e their official designation.) Chris from flat Florida Sent from my iPhone On Oct 21, 2010, at 8:34 PM, Steve Kral wrote: > They be better if people who DNFed any time in the past 3 years had one t= icket taken away for each such occurrence.... > stevekral > --- On Thu, 10/21/10, David Clark wrote: >=20 > From: David Clark > Subject: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds > To: hr100@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, October 21, 2010, 6:03 PM >=20 >=20=20 >=20 > Does anyone have any information on when we will be able to submit an app= lication for lottery? >=20 > Also- historically,
        what are the odds of actually getting in?=20 >=20 > Thanks. >=20 > David Clark >=20 > Max Muscle Sports Nutrition >=20 > Longmont >=20 > (C) 720-275-2197 >=20 > -Outreach Manager >=20 > -NESTA Certified Sports Nutrition Coach >=20 > -RRCA Certified Running Coach >=20 > - Sent from my iPhone >=20 > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >=20 > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >=20 >=20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] --lYd6vZmEvgw0fgrUKQjgghzBnPJSDRkF0BBv9SV Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
        As I understand it now, dnf's get no extra tickets compared to wait listers who get one. Further penalizing dnf'ers would be a controversial board decision to say the least. We all start HR100 with the intention of finishing, which I don't believe is the case in some other ultras. I choose not to second-guess anyone who decides to drop, and I certainly would not wish to take away tickets they had earned through other finishes or other wait list experiences.

        (Autofill wanted wait listers to be wait lusters, which I now propose become their official designation.)

        Chris from flat Florida

        Sent from my iPhone

        On Oct 21, 2010, at 8:34 PM, Steve Kral <bvstablemail@...> wrote:

        > They be better if people who DNFed any time in the past 3 years had one ticket taken away for each such occurrence....
        > stevekral
        > --- On Thu, 10/21/10, David Clark <irishsailsman@...> wrote:
        >
        > From: David Clark <irishsailsman@...>
        > Subject: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds
        > To: hr100@yahoogroups.com
        > Date: Thursday, October 21, 2010, 6:03 PM
        >
        >
        >
        > Does anyone have any information on when we will be able to submit an application for lottery?
        >
        > Also- historically, what are the odds of actually getting in?
        >
        > Thanks.
        >
        > David Clark
        >
        > Max Muscle Sports Nutrition
        >
        > Longmont
        >
        > (C) 720-275-2197
        >
        > -Outreach Manager
        >
        > -NESTA Certified Sports Nutrition Coach
        >
        > -RRCA Certified Running Coach
        >
        > - Sent from my iPhone
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • azsmokin
        I ve finished Hardrock twice out of 3 attempts. My first try was a DNF in 05 and it could be said that my pacer, Tim Varner and Steve Patillo saved my life. I
        Message 3 of 25 , Oct 22, 2010
        • 0 Attachment
          I've finished Hardrock twice out of 3 attempts. My first try was a DNF in
          '05 and it could be said that my pacer, Tim Varner and Steve Patillo saved
          my life.

          I was blindsided by a condition called Metabolic Acidosis as I was
          descending to Ouray from Engineers. I slowly lost all muscle control and
          eventually could not stand on my own. Not a good place on the course to be
          in such bad shape. I was like a falling down drunk but my head felt fine.
          Tim had to hold me up by my packstraps as we slowly made our way to the 550
          tunnel to wait on the ambulance that Steve, who had caught up to us, had ran
          ahead to call for. The emergency room Doc said I was very lucky as the
          condition could be fatal if left untreated. He didn't have to mention the
          sudden stop into Bear Creek had I fallen off the trail.

          Was I trained enough for the course? I thought so.

          Did I know what I was getting into? I thought so.

          My wife really likes for me to use pacers now. I used 3 the last time.
          Besides, I want them to see what I get to see.



          Bob Bachani

          Tucson, AZ

          _____

          From: hr100@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hr100@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Matt
          Mahoney
          Sent: Friday, October 22, 2010 7:08 AM
          To: hr100@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds





          Steve Pero wrote:
          > It's my understanding that Hardrock never was or never will be considered
          >a "race".

          Some people don't consider a 5K a race. They are perfectly happy to walk or
          jog
          it with a group of friends in 40 minutes and get a T-shirt and some food
          afterward and not worry about the awards.

          Others look at Hardrock and see:
          - A start line
          - A finish line
          - A prescribed and marked course
          - A clock
          - An official says "go"
          - Finish results
          - Awards based on finish order
          which sure looks to me like a race. (The fact that a 40 minute 5K pace would
          set
          a course record is irrelevant).

          And if it's not a race, then why are there pacers? Some say it is a safety
          issue. Sorry, I have to call BS. In a typical big city marathon with 30,000
          runners, you can statistically expect one death. If all of those runners had

          pacers, then the runners might feel safer, but you would instead average two

          deaths. Elite runners use pacers because when you are chasing six figure
          prize
          money at 4:48/mile, wind resistance matters. I fail to see how it matters
          when
          you are crawling up Grant-Swamp pass. Any advantage will probably be offset
          by
          your pacer accidentally pushing rocks down on you. (Ask David Horton about
          his
          broken finger).

          IMHO pacing is just a way to run half the race for free, either because you
          didn't get in the lottery or because you weren't trained well enough to run
          the
          whole thing.

          -- Matt Mahoney, matmahoney@... <mailto:matmahoney%40yahoo.com>

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Twiggsc@aol.com
          Well put, Bob! I use pacers and treasure the time I spend with them. They are my good friends. Anyone who stands there offering encouragement while I puke is
          Message 4 of 25 , Oct 22, 2010
          • 0 Attachment
            Well put, Bob!

            I use pacers and treasure the time I spend with them. They are my good friends. Anyone who stands there offering encouragement while I puke is more family than friend. However, I respect that my fellow Floridian, Matt, never uses them. I won't try to force a pacer on him, and I don't think he will try to take mine away.







            -----Original Message-----
            From: azsmokin <azsmokin@...>
            To: hr100@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Fri, Oct 22, 2010 10:59 am
            Subject: RE: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds





            I've finished Hardrock twice out of 3 attempts. My first try was a DNF in
            '05 and it could be said that my pacer, Tim Varner and Steve Patillo saved
            my life.

            I was blindsided by a condition called Metabolic Acidosis as I was
            descending to Ouray from Engineers. I slowly lost all muscle control and
            eventually could not stand on my own. Not a good place on the course to be
            in such bad shape. I was like a falling down drunk but my head felt fine.
            Tim had to hold me up by my packstraps as we slowly made our way to the 550
            tunnel to wait on the ambulance that Steve, who had caught up to us, had ran
            ahead to call for. The emergency room Doc said I was very lucky as the
            condition could be fatal if left untreated. He didn't have to mention the
            sudden stop into Bear Creek had I fallen off the trail.

            Was I trained enough for the course? I thought so.

            Did I know what I was getting into? I thought so.

            My wife really likes for me to use pacers now. I used 3 the last time.
            Besides, I want them to see what I get to see.

            Bob Bachani

            Tucson, AZ

            _____

            From: hr100@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hr100@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Matt
            Mahoney
            Sent: Friday, October 22, 2010 7:08 AM
            To: hr100@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds

            Steve Pero wrote:
            > It's my understanding that Hardrock never was or never will be considered
            >a "race".

            Some people don't consider a 5K a race. They are perfectly happy to walk or
            jog
            it with a group of friends in 40 minutes and get a T-shirt and some food
            afterward and not worry about the awards.

            Others look at Hardrock and see:
            - A start line
            - A finish line
            - A prescribed and marked course
            - A clock
            - An official says "go"
            - Finish results
            - Awards based on finish order
            which sure looks to me like a race. (The fact that a 40 minute 5K pace would
            set
            a course record is irrelevant).

            And if it's not a race, then why are there pacers? Some say it is a safety
            issue. Sorry, I have to call BS. In a typical big city marathon with 30,000
            runners, you can statistically expect one death. If all of those runners had

            pacers, then the runners might feel safer, but you would instead average two

            deaths. Elite runners use pacers because when you are chasing six figure
            prize
            money at 4:48/mile, wind resistance matters. I fail to see how it matters
            when
            you are crawling up Grant-Swamp pass. Any advantage will probably be offset
            by
            your pacer accidentally pushing rocks down on you. (Ask David Horton about
            his
            broken finger).

            IMHO pacing is just a way to run half the race for free, either because you
            didn't get in the lottery or because you weren't trained well enough to run
            the
            whole thing.

            -- Matt Mahoney, matmahoney@... <mailto:matmahoney%40yahoo.com>;

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]









            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Steve Kral
            I wholly agree Chris, controversial to say the least is an understatement. Still, abolishing slavery and giving the women the right to vote were all
            Message 5 of 25 , Oct 22, 2010
            • 0 Attachment
              I wholly agree Chris, 'controversial to say the least' is an understatement. Still, abolishing slavery and giving the women the right to vote were all controversial ideas in their day...one even started a war...but somehow progress seems to stem from progressive ideas.

              --- On Thu, 10/21/10, Chris Twiggs <Twiggsc@...> wrote:

              From: Chris Twiggs <Twiggsc@...>
              Subject: Re: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds
              To: "hr100@yahoogroups.com" <hr100@yahoogroups.com>
              Date: Thursday, October 21, 2010, 8:43 PM
















               









              As I understand it now, dnf's get no extra tickets compared to wait listers who get one. Further penalizing dnf'ers would be a controversial board decision to say the least. We all start HR100 with the intention of finishing, which I don't believe is the case in some other ultras. I choose not to second-guess anyone who decides to drop, and I certainly would not wish to take away tickets they had earned through other finishes or other wait list experiences.



              (Autofill wanted wait listers to be wait lusters, which I now propose become their official designation.)



              Chris from flat Florida



              Sent from my iPhone



              On Oct 21, 2010, at 8:34 PM, Steve Kral <bvstablemail@...> wrote:



              > They be better if people who DNFed any time in the past 3 years had one ticket taken away for each such occurrence....

              > stevekral

              > --- On Thu, 10/21/10, David Clark <irishsailsman@...> wrote:

              >

              > From: David Clark <irishsailsman@...>

              > Subject: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds

              > To: hr100@yahoogroups.com

              > Date: Thursday, October 21, 2010, 6:03 PM

              >

              >

              >

              > Does anyone have any information on when we will be able to submit an application for lottery?

              >

              > Also- historically, what are the odds of actually getting in?

              >

              > Thanks.

              >

              > David Clark

              >

              > Max Muscle Sports Nutrition

              >

              > Longmont

              >

              > (C) 720-275-2197

              >

              > -Outreach Manager

              >

              > -NESTA Certified Sports Nutrition Coach

              >

              > -RRCA Certified Running Coach

              >

              > - Sent from my iPhone

              >

              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

              >

              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

              >

              >



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






























              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Michael Bur
              Interesting. How are you defining progressive here and more to the point, what are the aspects of the current HR lottery system that you feel are not
              Message 6 of 25 , Oct 22, 2010
              • 0 Attachment
                Interesting.

                How are you defining "progressive" here and more to the point, what are the aspects of the current HR lottery system that you feel are not "progressive"? The DNFer is already effectively penalized WRT to a waitlister in that if they start and don't finish, they don't get the ticket; so the following year, the waitlister starts off in a better position when compared to the person who DNFed(all other things being equal).

                As far as "progressive" goes, other than the MMT lottery(http://www.vhtrc.org/mmt/entry.htm), which by way of full disclosure, I helped design, I don't know of any other 100 entry that has put as much thought into their design in terms of consideration and balancing all of the various aspects, interests and stakeholders of the event. I know from experience that there are many, many aspects to consider when designing an entry system for an event that is oversubscribed. Some of them are in direct opposition to each other. It isn't easy trying to get them all to balance out in a "fair" way. It is also important to note here that what one may considered "fair" to them as an individual may not(and often is not!) the same as what the board/rd considers "fair" for the overall event.

                In looking at what we(the VHTRC) did with MMT, I think there are other, far more "progressive" ideas that HR could incorporate to their lottery/entry before they resorted to taking away tickets from folks who DNFed.

                Best,
                Mike Bur(former VHTRC president, 4x Hardrocker)
                Kensington, MD

                --- On Fri, 10/22/10, Steve Kral <bvstablemail@...> wrote:

                > From: Steve Kral <bvstablemail@...>
                > Subject: Re: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds
                > To: hr100@yahoogroups.com
                > Date: Friday, October 22, 2010, 12:43 PM
                > I wholly agree Chris, 'controversial
                > to say the least' is an understatement. Still, abolishing
                > slavery and giving the women the right to vote were all
                > controversial ideas in their day...one even started a
                > war...but somehow progress seems to stem from progressive
                > ideas.
                >
                > --- On Thu, 10/21/10, Chris Twiggs <Twiggsc@...>
                > wrote:
                >
                > From: Chris Twiggs <Twiggsc@...>
                > Subject: Re: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds
                > To: "hr100@yahoogroups.com"
                > <hr100@yahoogroups.com>
                > Date: Thursday, October 21, 2010, 8:43 PM
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >  
                >
                >
                >
                >  
                >
                >
                >    
                >      
                >      
                >       As I understand it now, dnf's get no
                > extra tickets compared to wait listers who get one. Further
                > penalizing dnf'ers would be a controversial board decision
                > to say the least. We all start HR100 with the intention of
                > finishing, which I don't believe is the case in some other
                > ultras. I choose not to second-guess anyone who decides to
                > drop, and I certainly would not wish to take away tickets
                > they had earned through other finishes or other wait list
                > experiences.
                >
                >
                >
                > (Autofill wanted wait listers to be wait lusters, which I
                > now propose become their official designation.)
                >
                >
                >
                > Chris from flat Florida
                >
                >
                >
                > Sent from my iPhone
                >
                >
                >
                > On Oct 21, 2010, at 8:34 PM, Steve Kral <bvstablemail@...>
                > wrote:
                >
                >
                >
                > > They be better if people who DNFed any time in the
                > past 3 years had one ticket taken away for each such
                > occurrence....
                >
                > > stevekral
                >
                > > --- On Thu, 10/21/10, David Clark <irishsailsman@...>
                > wrote:
                >
                > >
                >
                > > From: David Clark <irishsailsman@...>
                >
                > > Subject: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds
                >
                > > To: hr100@yahoogroups.com
                >
                > > Date: Thursday, October 21, 2010, 6:03 PM
                >
                > >
                >
                > > 
                >
                > >
                >
                > > Does anyone have any information on when we will be
                > able to submit an application for lottery?
                >
                > >
                >
                > > Also- historically, what are the odds of actually
                > getting in?
                >
                > >
                >
                > > Thanks.
                >
                > >
                >
                > > David Clark
                >
                > >
                >
                > > Max Muscle Sports Nutrition
                >
                > >
                >
                > > Longmont
                >
                > >
                >
                > > (C) 720-275-2197
                >
                > >
                >
                > > -Outreach Manager
                >
                > >
                >
                > > -NESTA Certified Sports Nutrition Coach
                >
                > >
                >
                > > -RRCA Certified Running Coach
                >
                > >
                >
                > > - Sent from my iPhone
                >
                > >
                >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                > >
                >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                > >
                >
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >    
                >      
                >
                >    
                >    
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >  
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >      
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > To Post a message, send it to:   hr100@...
                >
                > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: hr100-unsubscribe@...!
                > Groups Links
                >
                >
                >     hr100-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
                >
                >
                >
              • Andy Hewat
                I think the HR entry system is very civilized. While the lottery has been kind to me, I like the weighted system and the auto entry for 5 time finishers. I
                Message 7 of 25 , Oct 23, 2010
                • 0 Attachment
                  I think the HR entry system is very civilized. While the lottery has been kind to me, I like the weighted system and the auto entry for 5 time finishers. I could see the benefit of saving a handful of spots for the elite to ensure high quality at the pointy end but that would make it just that little bit tougher for the rest of us. I do find myself looking on enviously at those 5 time finishers at the presentation.
                  Andy (3 from 3)


                  --- On Sat, 23/10/10, Michael Bur <mjcbur@...> wrote:

                  From: Michael Bur <mjcbur@...>
                  Subject: Re: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds
                  To: hr100@yahoogroups.com
                  Received: Saturday, 23 October, 2010, 5:33 AM
















                   











                  Interesting.



                  How are you defining "progressive" here and more to the point, what are the aspects of the current HR lottery system that you feel are not "progressive"? The DNFer is already effectively penalized WRT to a waitlister in that if they start and don't finish, they don't get the ticket; so the following year, the waitlister starts off in a better position when compared to the person who DNFed(all other things being equal).



                  As far as "progressive" goes, other than the MMT lottery(http://www.vhtrc.org/mmt/entry.htm), which by way of full disclosure, I helped design, I don't know of any other 100 entry that has put as much thought into their design in terms of consideration and balancing all of the various aspects, interests and stakeholders of the event. I know from experience that there are many, many aspects to consider when designing an entry system for an event that is oversubscribed. Some of them are in direct opposition to each other. It isn't easy trying to get them all to balance out in a "fair" way. It is also important to note here that what one may considered "fair" to them as an individual may not(and often is not!) the same as what the board/rd considers "fair" for the overall event.



                  In looking at what we(the VHTRC) did with MMT, I think there are other, far more "progressive" ideas that HR could incorporate to their lottery/entry before they resorted to taking away tickets from folks who DNFed.



                  Best,

                  Mike Bur(former VHTRC president, 4x Hardrocker)

                  Kensington, MD



                  --- On Fri, 10/22/10, Steve Kral <bvstablemail@...> wrote:



                  > From: Steve Kral <bvstablemail@...>

                  > Subject: Re: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds

                  > To: hr100@yahoogroups.com

                  > Date: Friday, October 22, 2010, 12:43 PM

                  > I wholly agree Chris, 'controversial

                  > to say the least' is an understatement. Still, abolishing

                  > slavery and giving the women the right to vote were all

                  > controversial ideas in their day...one even started a

                  > war...but somehow progress seems to stem from progressive

                  > ideas.

                  >

                  > --- On Thu, 10/21/10, Chris Twiggs <Twiggsc@...>

                  > wrote:

                  >

                  > From: Chris Twiggs <Twiggsc@...>

                  > Subject: Re: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds

                  > To: "hr100@yahoogroups.com"

                  > <hr100@yahoogroups.com>

                  > Date: Thursday, October 21, 2010, 8:43 PM

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >  

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >  

                  >

                  >

                  >    

                  >      

                  >      

                  >       As I understand it now, dnf's get no

                  > extra tickets compared to wait listers who get one. Further

                  > penalizing dnf'ers would be a controversial board decision

                  > to say the least. We all start HR100 with the intention of

                  > finishing, which I don't believe is the case in some other

                  > ultras. I choose not to second-guess anyone who decides to

                  > drop, and I certainly would not wish to take away tickets

                  > they had earned through other finishes or other wait list

                  > experiences.

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  > (Autofill wanted wait listers to be wait lusters, which I

                  > now propose become their official designation.)

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  > Chris from flat Florida

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  > Sent from my iPhone

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  > On Oct 21, 2010, at 8:34 PM, Steve Kral <bvstablemail@...>

                  > wrote:

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  > > They be better if people who DNFed any time in the

                  > past 3 years had one ticket taken away for each such

                  > occurrence....

                  >

                  > > stevekral

                  >

                  > > --- On Thu, 10/21/10, David Clark <irishsailsman@...>

                  > wrote:

                  >

                  > >

                  >

                  > > From: David Clark <irishsailsman@...>

                  >

                  > > Subject: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds

                  >

                  > > To: hr100@yahoogroups.com

                  >

                  > > Date: Thursday, October 21, 2010, 6:03 PM

                  >

                  > >

                  >

                  > > 

                  >

                  > >

                  >

                  > > Does anyone have any information on when we will be

                  > able to submit an application for lottery?

                  >

                  > >

                  >

                  > > Also- historically, what are the odds of actually

                  > getting in?

                  >

                  > >

                  >

                  > > Thanks.

                  >

                  > >

                  >

                  > > David Clark

                  >

                  > >

                  >

                  > > Max Muscle Sports Nutrition

                  >

                  > >

                  >

                  > > Longmont

                  >

                  > >

                  >

                  > > (C) 720-275-2197

                  >

                  > >

                  >

                  > > -Outreach Manager

                  >

                  > >

                  >

                  > > -NESTA Certified Sports Nutrition Coach

                  >

                  > >

                  >

                  > > -RRCA Certified Running Coach

                  >

                  > >

                  >

                  > > - Sent from my iPhone

                  >

                  > >

                  >

                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                  >

                  > >

                  >

                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                  >

                  > >

                  >

                  > >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >    

                  >      

                  >

                  >    

                  >    

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >  

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >      

                  >

                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  > ------------------------------------

                  >

                  > To Post a message, send it to:   hr100@...

                  >

                  > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: hr100-unsubscribe@...!

                  > Groups Links

                  >

                  >

                  >     hr100-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

                  >

                  >

                  >






























                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Chris Twiggs
                  You ll have that five timer finishing jacket in no time, Andy. Sent from my iPhone ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  Message 8 of 25 , Oct 23, 2010
                  • 0 Attachment
                    You'll have that five timer finishing jacket in no time, Andy.

                    Sent from my iPhone

                    On Oct 23, 2010, at 9:38 AM, Andy Hewat <hewat.andy@...> wrote:

                    > I think the HR entry system is very civilized. While the lottery has been kind to me, I like the weighted system and the auto entry for 5 time finishers. I could see the benefit of saving a handful of spots for the elite to ensure high quality at the pointy end but that would make it just that little bit tougher for the rest of us. I do find myself looking on enviously at those 5 time finishers at the presentation.
                    > Andy (3 from 3)
                    >
                    > --- On Sat, 23/10/10, Michael Bur <mjcbur@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > From: Michael Bur <mjcbur@...>
                    > Subject: Re: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds
                    > To: hr100@yahoogroups.com
                    > Received: Saturday, 23 October, 2010, 5:33 AM
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Interesting.
                    >
                    > How are you defining "progressive" here and more to the point, what are the aspects of the current HR lottery system that you feel are not "progressive"? The DNFer is already effectively penalized WRT to a waitlister in that if they start and don't finish, they don't get the ticket; so the following year, the waitlister starts off in a better position when compared to the person who DNFed(all other things being equal).
                    >
                    > As far as "progressive" goes, other than the MMT lottery(http://www.vhtrc.org/mmt/entry.htm), which by way of full disclosure, I helped design, I don't know of any other 100 entry that has put as much thought into their design in terms of consideration and balancing all of the various aspects, interests and stakeholders of the event. I know from experience that there are many, many aspects to consider when designing an entry system for an event that is oversubscribed. Some of them are in direct opposition to each other. It isn't easy trying to get them all to balance out in a "fair" way. It is also important to note here that what one may considered "fair" to them as an individual may not(and often is not!) the same as what the board/rd considers "fair" for the overall event.
                    >
                    > In looking at what we(the VHTRC) did with MMT, I think there are other, far more "progressive" ideas that HR could incorporate to their lottery/entry before they resorted to taking away tickets from folks who DNFed.
                    >
                    > Best,
                    >
                    > Mike Bur(former VHTRC president, 4x Hardrocker)
                    >
                    > Kensington, MD
                    >
                    > --- On Fri, 10/22/10, Steve Kral <bvstablemail@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > > From: Steve Kral <bvstablemail@...>
                    >
                    > > Subject: Re: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds
                    >
                    > > To: hr100@yahoogroups.com
                    >
                    > > Date: Friday, October 22, 2010, 12:43 PM
                    >
                    > > I wholly agree Chris, 'controversial
                    >
                    > > to say the least' is an understatement. Still, abolishing
                    >
                    > > slavery and giving the women the right to vote were all
                    >
                    > > controversial ideas in their day...one even started a
                    >
                    > > war...but somehow progress seems to stem from progressive
                    >
                    > > ideas.
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > --- On Thu, 10/21/10, Chris Twiggs <Twiggsc@...>
                    >
                    > > wrote:
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > From: Chris Twiggs <Twiggsc@...>
                    >
                    > > Subject: Re: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds
                    >
                    > > To: "hr100@yahoogroups.com"
                    >
                    > > <hr100@yahoogroups.com>
                    >
                    > > Date: Thursday, October 21, 2010, 8:43 PM
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > As I understand it now, dnf's get no
                    >
                    > > extra tickets compared to wait listers who get one. Further
                    >
                    > > penalizing dnf'ers would be a controversial board decision
                    >
                    > > to say the least. We all start HR100 with the intention of
                    >
                    > > finishing, which I don't believe is the case in some other
                    >
                    > > ultras. I choose not to second-guess anyone who decides to
                    >
                    > > drop, and I certainly would not wish to take away tickets
                    >
                    > > they had earned through other finishes or other wait list
                    >
                    > > experiences.
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > (Autofill wanted wait listers to be wait lusters, which I
                    >
                    > > now propose become their official designation.)
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > Chris from flat Florida
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > Sent from my iPhone
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > On Oct 21, 2010, at 8:34 PM, Steve Kral <bvstablemail@...>
                    >
                    > > wrote:
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > > They be better if people who DNFed any time in the
                    >
                    > > past 3 years had one ticket taken away for each such
                    >
                    > > occurrence....
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > > stevekral
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > > --- On Thu, 10/21/10, David Clark <irishsailsman@...>
                    >
                    > > wrote:
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > > From: David Clark <irishsailsman@...>
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > > Subject: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > > To: hr100@yahoogroups.com
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > > Date: Thursday, October 21, 2010, 6:03 PM
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > > Does anyone have any information on when we will be
                    >
                    > > able to submit an application for lottery?
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > > Also- historically, what are the odds of actually
                    >
                    > > getting in?
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > > Thanks.
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > > David Clark
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > > Max Muscle Sports Nutrition
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > > Longmont
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > > (C) 720-275-2197
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > > -Outreach Manager
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > > -NESTA Certified Sports Nutrition Coach
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > > -RRCA Certified Running Coach
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > > - Sent from my iPhone
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > ------------------------------------
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > To Post a message, send it to: hr100@...
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: hr100-unsubscribe@...!
                    >
                    > > Groups Links
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > hr100-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.