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Re: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds

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  • David Clark
    Clarification: I know on the website is says late October or early November for registration I was looking for a bit of inside info... ; ) And really would
    Message 1 of 25 , Oct 21, 2010
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      Clarification:


      I know on the website is says "late October or early November" for registration

      I was looking for a bit of "inside" info... ; )

      And really would like to hear from people on historical chances of getting in.
      Do many people on wait list get in?

      If so, is it common? Is it like Badwater, where it's almost hopeless?


      David Clark
      Max Muscle Sports Nutrition
      Longmont
      (C) 720-275-2197

      -Outreach Manager
      -NESTA Certified Sports Nutrition Coach
      -RRCA Certified Running Coach



      - Sent from my iPhone

      On Oct 21, 2010, at 4:12 PM, Shad Mika <shadmika@...> wrote:

      > It is all on the website dude.
      >
      > Shad
      >
      > On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 4:03 PM, David Clark <irishsailsman@...> wrote:
      >
      > Does anyone have any information on when we will be able to submit an application for lottery?
      >
      > Also- historically, what are the odds of actually getting in?
      >
      > Thanks.
      >
      > David Clark
      > Max Muscle Sports Nutrition
      > Longmont
      > (C) 720-275-2197
      >
      > -Outreach Manager
      > -NESTA Certified Sports Nutrition Coach
      > -RRCA Certified Running Coach
      >
      > - Sent from my iPhone
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > --
      > Shad
      >
      > "To give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift." -Steve Prefontaine
      >
      > www.shadmika.blogspot.com
      >


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Deb's Gmail
      Hi Dave... It s a lottery.. so there is always a chance. Numbers up to about 20 on the wait list typically have a pretty good chance of getting in, though it
      Message 2 of 25 , Oct 21, 2010
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        Hi Dave...

        It's a lottery.. so there is always a chance. Numbers up to about 20 on
        the wait list typically have a pretty good chance of
        getting in, though it might be at the last minute ( I could tell you a
        story about THAT!), so you would want to actually be in town
        ready to go just in case.

        As far as registration, entries are collected until the Board meets in
        January, when the lottery takes place, so there is no rush to get it in
        on the first day. As long as they get your entry
        by the specified date before the Board meeting, then that's all that
        matters.
        good luck,
        Deb


        On 10/21/2010 4:24 PM, David Clark wrote:
        >
        > Clarification:
        >
        > I know on the website is says "late October or early November" for
        > registration
        >
        > I was looking for a bit of "inside" info... ; )
        >
        > And really would like to hear from people on historical chances of
        > getting in.
        > Do many people on wait list get in?
        >
        > If so, is it common? Is it like Badwater, where it's almost hopeless?
        >
        > David Clark
        > Max Muscle Sports Nutrition
        > Longmont
        > (C) 720-275-2197
        >
        > -Outreach Manager
        > -NESTA Certified Sports Nutrition Coach
        > -RRCA Certified Running Coach
        >
        > - Sent from my iPhone
        >
        > On Oct 21, 2010, at 4:12 PM, Shad Mika <shadmika@...
        > <mailto:shadmika%40gmail.com>> wrote:
        >
        > > It is all on the website dude.
        > >
        > > Shad
        > >
        > > On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 4:03 PM, David Clark
        > <irishsailsman@... <mailto:irishsailsman%40comcast.net>> wrote:
        > >
        > > Does anyone have any information on when we will be able to submit
        > an application for lottery?
        > >
        > > Also- historically, what are the odds of actually getting in?
        > >
        > > Thanks.
        > >
        > > David Clark
        > > Max Muscle Sports Nutrition
        > > Longmont
        > > (C) 720-275-2197
        > >
        > > -Outreach Manager
        > > -NESTA Certified Sports Nutrition Coach
        > > -RRCA Certified Running Coach
        > >
        > > - Sent from my iPhone
        > >
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > --
        > > Shad
        > >
        > > "To give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift."
        > -Steve Prefontaine
        > >
        > > www.shadmika.blogspot.com
        > >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Deb's Gmail
        oops,I mean February... not January.. Hi Dave... It s a lottery.. so there is always a chance. Numbers up to about 20 on the wait list typically have a pretty
        Message 3 of 25 , Oct 21, 2010
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          oops,I mean February... not January..















          Hi Dave...

          It's a lottery.. so there is always a chance. Numbers up to about 20 on
          the wait list typically have a pretty good chance of
          getting in, though it might be at the last minute ( I could tell you a
          story about THAT!), so you would want to actually be in town
          ready to go just in case.

          As far as registration, entries are collected until the Board meets in
          January, when the lottery takes place, so there is no rush to get it in
          on the first day. As long as they get your entry
          by the specified date before the Board meeting, then that's all that
          matters.
          good luck,
          Deb


          On 10/21/2010 4:24 PM, David Clark wrote:
          >
          > Clarification:
          >
          > I know on the website is says "late October or early November" for
          > registration
          >
          > I was looking for a bit of "inside" info... ; )
          >
          > And really would like to hear from people on historical chances of
          > getting in.
          > Do many people on wait list get in?
          >
          > If so, is it common? Is it like Badwater, where it's almost hopeless?
          >
          > David Clark
          > Max Muscle Sports Nutrition
          > Longmont
          > (C) 720-275-2197
          >
          > -Outreach Manager
          > -NESTA Certified Sports Nutrition Coach
          > -RRCA Certified Running Coach
          >
          > - Sent from my iPhone
          >
          > On Oct 21, 2010, at 4:12 PM, Shad Mika <shadmika@...
          > <mailto:shadmika%40gmail.com>> wrote:
          >
          > > It is all on the website dude.
          > >
          > > Shad
          > >
          > > On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 4:03 PM, David Clark
          > <irishsailsman@... <mailto:irishsailsman%40comcast.net>> wrote:
          > >
          > > Does anyone have any information on when we will be able to submit
          > an application for lottery?
          > >
          > > Also- historically, what are the odds of actually getting in?
          > >
          > > Thanks.
          > >
          > > David Clark
          > > Max Muscle Sports Nutrition
          > > Longmont
          > > (C) 720-275-2197
          > >
          > > -Outreach Manager
          > > -NESTA Certified Sports Nutrition Coach
          > > -RRCA Certified Running Coach
          > >
          > > - Sent from my iPhone
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > --
          > > Shad
          > >
          > > "To give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift."
          > -Steve Prefontaine
          > >
          > > www.shadmika.blogspot.com
          > >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Bruce Grant
          If you re looking for rough numbers, here s the odds from 2006 (hey, you said historical :-) # tickets chance 1 20.0% 2 36.0% 3 48.8% 4
          Message 4 of 25 , Oct 21, 2010
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            If you're looking for rough numbers, here's the odds from 2006 (hey, you
            said "historical" :-)

            # tickets chance
            1 20.0%
            2 36.0%
            3 48.8%
            4 59.0%
            5 67.2%
            6 73.8%
            7 79.0%
            8 83.1%

            Odds for any year depend on how many entries are received, and how many
            previous finishers try to enter (they get more tickets in the pot).
            The trend is that the odds are lowering all the time - I recall the 1-ticket
            chance being around 15% more recently - so you have to adjust all the above
            numbers down a fair bit

            Ultimately, the odds do nothing but add anxiety, so why sweat it? Just don't
            be late with your entry, and like everyone else, find out if you're in when
            the draw happens around the beginning of February.

            Waitlist...like Deb says, the first 20 will pretty much get in, but it may
            stray towards the upper 20's towards the end. And yes, if you're really
            keen, be there in Silverton ready to race because weird things can happen.
            At least if you are there, you can do trail work to improve your odds for
            next year.

            Badwater has a distinctly different entry methodology, so I wouldn't even
            start to compare the two races. Actually, that goes for the entire event as
            well....

            Bruce


            On 21 October 2010 15:44, Deb's Gmail <mtnrunner02@...> wrote:

            >
            >
            > Hi Dave...
            >
            > It's a lottery.. so there is always a chance. Numbers up to about 20 on
            > the wait list typically have a pretty good chance of
            > getting in, though it might be at the last minute ( I could tell you a
            > story about THAT!), so you would want to actually be in town
            > ready to go just in case.
            >
            > As far as registration, entries are collected until the Board meets in
            > January, when the lottery takes place, so there is no rush to get it in
            > on the first day. As long as they get your entry
            > by the specified date before the Board meeting, then that's all that
            > matters.
            > good luck,
            > Deb
            >
            > On 10/21/2010 4:24 PM, David Clark wrote:
            > >
            > > Clarification:
            > >
            > > I know on the website is says "late October or early November" for
            > > registration
            > >
            > > I was looking for a bit of "inside" info... ; )
            > >
            > > And really would like to hear from people on historical chances of
            > > getting in.
            > > Do many people on wait list get in?
            > >
            > > If so, is it common? Is it like Badwater, where it's almost hopeless?
            > >
            > > David Clark
            > > Max Muscle Sports Nutrition
            > > Longmont
            > > (C) 720-275-2197
            > >
            > > -Outreach Manager
            > > -NESTA Certified Sports Nutrition Coach
            > > -RRCA Certified Running Coach
            > >
            > > - Sent from my iPhone
            > >
            > > On Oct 21, 2010, at 4:12 PM, Shad Mika <shadmika@...<shadmika%40gmail.com>
            > > <mailto:shadmika%40gmail.com <shadmika%2540gmail.com>>> wrote:
            > >
            > > > It is all on the website dude.
            > > >
            > > > Shad
            > > >
            > > > On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 4:03 PM, David Clark
            > > <irishsailsman@... <irishsailsman%40comcast.net> <mailto:
            > irishsailsman%40comcast.net <irishsailsman%2540comcast.net>>> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Does anyone have any information on when we will be able to submit
            > > an application for lottery?
            > > >
            > > > Also- historically, what are the odds of actually getting in?
            > > >
            > > > Thanks.
            > > >
            > > > David Clark
            > > > Max Muscle Sports Nutrition
            > > > Longmont
            > > > (C) 720-275-2197
            > > >
            > > > -Outreach Manager
            > > > -NESTA Certified Sports Nutrition Coach
            > > > -RRCA Certified Running Coach
            > > >
            > > > - Sent from my iPhone
            > > >
            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > --
            > > > Shad
            > > >
            > > > "To give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift."
            > > -Steve Prefontaine
            > > >
            > > > www.shadmika.blogspot.com
            > > >
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            > >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Chris Twiggs
            It s not almost hopeless. Blake Woods usually sends out an email outlining the previous year s chances and his best guess for the upcoming year, but naturally
            Message 5 of 25 , Oct 21, 2010
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              It's not almost hopeless. Blake Woods usually sends out an email outlining the previous year's chances and his best guess for the upcoming year, but naturally no one knows until all the applications are in.

              Sent from my iPhone

              On Oct 21, 2010, at 6:24 PM, David Clark <irishsailsman@...> wrote:

              > Clarification:
              >
              > I know on the website is says "late October or early November" for registration
              >
              > I was looking for a bit of "inside" info... ; )
              >
              > And really would like to hear from people on historical chances of getting in.
              > Do many people on wait list get in?
              >
              > If so, is it common? Is it like Badwater, where it's almost hopeless?
              >
              > David Clark
              > Max Muscle Sports Nutrition
              > Longmont
              > (C) 720-275-2197
              >
              > -Outreach Manager
              > -NESTA Certified Sports Nutrition Coach
              > -RRCA Certified Running Coach
              >
              > - Sent from my iPhone
              >
              > On Oct 21, 2010, at 4:12 PM, Shad Mika <shadmika@...> wrote:
              >
              > > It is all on the website dude.
              > >
              > > Shad
              > >
              > > On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 4:03 PM, David Clark <irishsailsman@...> wrote:
              > >
              > > Does anyone have any information on when we will be able to submit an application for lottery?
              > >
              > > Also- historically, what are the odds of actually getting in?
              > >
              > > Thanks.
              > >
              > > David Clark
              > > Max Muscle Sports Nutrition
              > > Longmont
              > > (C) 720-275-2197
              > >
              > > -Outreach Manager
              > > -NESTA Certified Sports Nutrition Coach
              > > -RRCA Certified Running Coach
              > >
              > > - Sent from my iPhone
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > --
              > > Shad
              > >
              > > "To give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift." -Steve Prefontaine
              > >
              > > www.shadmika.blogspot.com
              > >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Steve Kral
              They be better if people who DNFed any time in the past 3 years had one ticket taken away for each such occurrence.... stevekral ... From: David Clark
              Message 6 of 25 , Oct 21, 2010
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                They be better if people who DNFed any time in the past 3 years had one ticket taken away for each such occurrence....
                stevekral
                --- On Thu, 10/21/10, David Clark <irishsailsman@...> wrote:

                From: David Clark <irishsailsman@...>
                Subject: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds
                To: hr100@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Thursday, October 21, 2010, 6:03 PM
















                 









                Does anyone have any information on when we will be able to submit an application for lottery?



                Also- historically, what are the odds of actually getting in?



                Thanks.



                David Clark

                Max Muscle Sports Nutrition

                Longmont

                (C) 720-275-2197



                -Outreach Manager

                -NESTA Certified Sports Nutrition Coach

                -RRCA Certified Running Coach



                - Sent from my iPhone



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






























                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Chris Twiggs
                As I understand it now, dnf s get no extra tickets compared to wait listers who get one. Further penalizing dnf ers would be a controversial board decision to
                Message 7 of 25 , Oct 21, 2010
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                  As I understand it now, dnf's get no extra tickets compared to wait listers who get one. Further penalizing dnf'ers would be a controversial board decision to say the least. We all start HR100 with the intention of finishing, which I don't believe is the case in some other ultras. I choose not to second-guess anyone who decides to drop, and I certainly would not wish to take away tickets they had earned through other finishes or other wait list experiences.

                  (Autofill wanted wait listers to be wait lusters, which I now propose become their official designation.)

                  Chris from flat Florida

                  Sent from my iPhone

                  On Oct 21, 2010, at 8:34 PM, Steve Kral <bvstablemail@...> wrote:

                  > They be better if people who DNFed any time in the past 3 years had one ticket taken away for each such occurrence....
                  > stevekral
                  > --- On Thu, 10/21/10, David Clark <irishsailsman@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > From: David Clark <irishsailsman@...>
                  > Subject: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds
                  > To: hr100@yahoogroups.com
                  > Date: Thursday, October 21, 2010, 6:03 PM
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Does anyone have any information on when we will be able to submit an application for lottery?
                  >
                  > Also- historically, what are the odds of actually getting in?
                  >
                  > Thanks.
                  >
                  > David Clark
                  >
                  > Max Muscle Sports Nutrition
                  >
                  > Longmont
                  >
                  > (C) 720-275-2197
                  >
                  > -Outreach Manager
                  >
                  > -NESTA Certified Sports Nutrition Coach
                  >
                  > -RRCA Certified Running Coach
                  >
                  > - Sent from my iPhone
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • james varner
                  i like that idea steve(even though that would cost me a ticket) and how about requiring volunteering at a hardrock aid station or pacing(50miles) at hardrock
                  Message 8 of 25 , Oct 21, 2010
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                    i like that idea steve(even though that would cost me a ticket) and how about
                    requiring volunteering at a hardrock aid station or pacing(50miles) at hardrock
                    atleast once in the past 5 years to get in the lottery-- this would help to
                    eliminate those who aren't truly committed and would better prepare the possible
                    entrants for the unique challenges of the race resulting in a higher finisher
                    rate.

                    james varnerRainshadow Running
                    www.rainshadowrunning.com




                    ________________________________
                    From: Steve Kral <bvstablemail@...>
                    To: hr100@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Thu, October 21, 2010 5:34:11 PM
                    Subject: Re: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds


                    They be better if people who DNFed any time in the past 3 years had one ticket
                    taken away for each such occurrence....
                    stevekral
                    --- On Thu, 10/21/10, David Clark <irishsailsman@...> wrote:

                    From: David Clark <irishsailsman@...>
                    Subject: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds
                    To: hr100@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Thursday, October 21, 2010, 6:03 PM



                    Does anyone have any information on when we will be able to submit an
                    application for lottery?

                    Also- historically, what are the odds of actually getting in?

                    Thanks.

                    David Clark

                    Max Muscle Sports Nutrition

                    Longmont

                    (C) 720-275-2197

                    -Outreach Manager

                    -NESTA Certified Sports Nutrition Coach

                    -RRCA Certified Running Coach

                    - Sent from my iPhone

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Deb P
                    that s one of the best spell check recommendations I ve seen in quite awhile. I agree.. wait lusters! ha!! ... [Non-text portions of this message have been
                    Message 9 of 25 , Oct 21, 2010
                    • 0 Attachment
                      that's one of the best spell check recommendations I've seen in quite
                      awhile. I agree..
                      wait lusters! ha!!

                      On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 8:43 PM, Chris Twiggs <Twiggsc@...> wrote:

                      >
                      >
                      > As I understand it now, dnf's get no extra tickets compared to wait listers
                      > who get one. Further penalizing dnf'ers would be a controversial board
                      > decision to say the least. We all start HR100 with the intention of
                      > finishing, which I don't believe is the case in some other ultras. I choose
                      > not to second-guess anyone who decides to drop, and I certainly would not
                      > wish to take away tickets they had earned through other finishes or other
                      > wait list experiences.
                      >
                      > (Autofill wanted wait listers to be wait lusters, which I now propose
                      > become their official designation.)
                      >
                      > Chris from flat Florida
                      >
                      > Sent from my iPhone
                      >
                      >
                      > On Oct 21, 2010, at 8:34 PM, Steve Kral <bvstablemail@...<bvstablemail%40yahoo.com>>
                      > wrote:
                      >
                      > > They be better if people who DNFed any time in the past 3 years had one
                      > ticket taken away for each such occurrence....
                      > > stevekral
                      > > --- On Thu, 10/21/10, David Clark <irishsailsman@...<irishsailsman%40comcast.net>>
                      > wrote:
                      > >
                      > > From: David Clark <irishsailsman@...<irishsailsman%40comcast.net>
                      > >
                      > > Subject: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds
                      > > To: hr100@yahoogroups.com <hr100%40yahoogroups.com>
                      > > Date: Thursday, October 21, 2010, 6:03 PM
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Does anyone have any information on when we will be able to submit an
                      > application for lottery?
                      > >
                      > > Also- historically, what are the odds of actually getting in?
                      > >
                      > > Thanks.
                      > >
                      > > David Clark
                      > >
                      > > Max Muscle Sports Nutrition
                      > >
                      > > Longmont
                      > >
                      > > (C) 720-275-2197
                      > >
                      > > -Outreach Manager
                      > >
                      > > -NESTA Certified Sports Nutrition Coach
                      > >
                      > > -RRCA Certified Running Coach
                      > >
                      > > - Sent from my iPhone
                      > >
                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > >
                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
                      >


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Steve Kral
                      Chris, I m not sure who makes up your we all group, but I once heard a Hardrock runner first hand discuss starting with no intent to finish. Had something to
                      Message 10 of 25 , Oct 21, 2010
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                        Chris,
                        I'm not sure who makes up your 'we all' group, but I once heard a Hardrock runner first hand discuss starting with no intent to finish. Had something to do with being old and not caring how many years younger runners with more opportunities had to wait.
                        James,
                        Nice idea also, but would be quite beyond one's control if he/she came to Hardrock to pace 50 miles and the runner dropped. Still, in any given year, quite a few runners are out there without pacers...maybe they don't want one!steve

                        --- On Thu, 10/21/10, Deb P <mtnrunner02@...> wrote:

                        From: Deb P <mtnrunner02@...>
                        Subject: Re: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds
                        To: hr100@yahoogroups.com
                        Date: Thursday, October 21, 2010, 8:46 PM

                        that's one of the best spell check recommendations I've seen in quite
                        awhile. I agree..
                        wait lusters! ha!!

                        On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 8:43 PM, Chris Twiggs <Twiggsc@...> wrote:

                        >
                        >
                        > As I understand it now, dnf's get no extra tickets compared to wait listers
                        > who get one. Further penalizing dnf'ers would be a controversial board
                        > decision to say the least. We all start HR100 with the intention of
                        > finishing, which I don't believe is the case in some other ultras. I choose
                        > not to second-guess anyone who decides to drop, and I certainly would not
                        > wish to take away tickets they had earned through other finishes or other
                        > wait list experiences.
                        >
                        > (Autofill wanted wait listers to be wait lusters, which I now propose
                        > become their official designation.)
                        >
                        > Chris from flat Florida
                        >
                        > Sent from my iPhone
                        >
                        >
                        > On Oct 21, 2010, at 8:34 PM, Steve Kral <bvstablemail@...<bvstablemail%40yahoo.com>>
                        > wrote:
                        >
                        > > They be better if people who DNFed any time in the past 3 years had one
                        > ticket taken away for each such occurrence....
                        > > stevekral
                        > > --- On Thu, 10/21/10, David Clark <irishsailsman@...<irishsailsman%40comcast.net>>
                        > wrote:
                        > >
                        > > From: David Clark <irishsailsman@...<irishsailsman%40comcast.net>
                        > >
                        > > Subject: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds
                        > > To: hr100@yahoogroups.com <hr100%40yahoogroups.com>
                        > > Date: Thursday, October 21, 2010, 6:03 PM
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Does anyone have any information on when we will be able to submit an
                        > application for lottery?
                        > >
                        > > Also- historically, what are the odds of actually getting in?
                        > >
                        > > Thanks.
                        > >
                        > > David Clark
                        > >
                        > > Max Muscle Sports Nutrition
                        > >
                        > > Longmont
                        > >
                        > > (C) 720-275-2197
                        > >
                        > > -Outreach Manager
                        > >
                        > > -NESTA Certified Sports Nutrition Coach
                        > >
                        > > -RRCA Certified Running Coach
                        > >
                        > > - Sent from my iPhone
                        > >
                        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > >
                        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >

                        >


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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                      • tedes12@comcast.net
                        Man after doing Hardrock one time I see what the fuss is all about!!! It is truly a one-of-a-kind ultra. I hope I make it in a second year. Have you ever
                        Message 11 of 25 , Oct 21, 2010
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                          Man after doing Hardrock one time I see what the fuss is all about!!! It is truly a one-of-a-kind ultra. I hope I make it in a second year.

                          Have you ever heard of anyone running both Hardrock and Badwater in the same year. If so did they finish either or both?
                          Terry Sentinella
                          Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: Deb P <mtnrunner02@...>
                          Sender: hr100@yahoogroups.com
                          Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 20:46:24
                          To: <hr100@yahoogroups.com>
                          Reply-To: hr100@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds

                          that's one of the best spell check recommendations I've seen in quite
                          awhile. I agree..
                          wait lusters! ha!!

                          On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 8:43 PM, Chris Twiggs <Twiggsc@...> wrote:

                          >
                          >
                          > As I understand it now, dnf's get no extra tickets compared to wait listers
                          > who get one. Further penalizing dnf'ers would be a controversial board
                          > decision to say the least. We all start HR100 with the intention of
                          > finishing, which I don't believe is the case in some other ultras. I choose
                          > not to second-guess anyone who decides to drop, and I certainly would not
                          > wish to take away tickets they had earned through other finishes or other
                          > wait list experiences.
                          >
                          > (Autofill wanted wait listers to be wait lusters, which I now propose
                          > become their official designation.)
                          >
                          > Chris from flat Florida
                          >
                          > Sent from my iPhone
                          >
                          >
                          > On Oct 21, 2010, at 8:34 PM, Steve Kral <bvstablemail@...<bvstablemail%40yahoo.com>>
                          > wrote:
                          >
                          > > They be better if people who DNFed any time in the past 3 years had one
                          > ticket taken away for each such occurrence....
                          > > stevekral
                          > > --- On Thu, 10/21/10, David Clark <irishsailsman@...<irishsailsman%40comcast.net>>
                          > wrote:
                          > >
                          > > From: David Clark <irishsailsman@...<irishsailsman%40comcast.net>
                          > >
                          > > Subject: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds
                          > > To: hr100@yahoogroups.com <hr100%40yahoogroups.com>
                          > > Date: Thursday, October 21, 2010, 6:03 PM
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Does anyone have any information on when we will be able to submit an
                          > application for lottery?
                          > >
                          > > Also- historically, what are the odds of actually getting in?
                          > >
                          > > Thanks.
                          > >
                          > > David Clark
                          > >
                          > > Max Muscle Sports Nutrition
                          > >
                          > > Longmont
                          > >
                          > > (C) 720-275-2197
                          > >
                          > > -Outreach Manager
                          > >
                          > > -NESTA Certified Sports Nutrition Coach
                          > >
                          > > -RRCA Certified Running Coach
                          > >
                          > > - Sent from my iPhone
                          > >
                          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > >
                          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                          >
                          >


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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                        • Chris Twiggs
                          I am very surprised to hear that, Steve. I have never heard such a comment from any hardrocker. The oldest of them all, John DeWalt, chose not to come this
                          Message 12 of 25 , Oct 21, 2010
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                            I am very surprised to hear that, Steve. I have never heard such a comment from any hardrocker. The oldest of them all, John DeWalt, chose not to come this year because he was sick and knew he'd likely not finish. Please don't reveal the name of the SOB you overheard. I hold all who have started HR in high esteem whether they finished or not, and I want nothing to tarnish that.

                            Chris

                            Sent from my iPhone

                            On Oct 21, 2010, at 10:12 PM, Steve Kral <bvstablemail@...> wrote:

                            > Chris,
                            > I'm not sure who makes up your 'we all' group, but I once heard a Hardrock runner first hand discuss starting with no intent to finish. Had something to do with being old and not caring how many years younger runners with more opportunities had to wait.
                            > James,
                            > Nice idea also, but would be quite beyond one's control if he/she came to Hardrock to pace 50 miles and the runner dropped. Still, in any given year, quite a few runners are out there without pacers...maybe they don't want one!steve
                            >
                            > --- On Thu, 10/21/10, Deb P <mtnrunner02@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > From: Deb P <mtnrunner02@...>
                            > Subject: Re: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds
                            > To: hr100@yahoogroups.com
                            > Date: Thursday, October 21, 2010, 8:46 PM
                            >
                            > that's one of the best spell check recommendations I've seen in quite
                            > awhile. I agree..
                            > wait lusters! ha!!
                            >
                            > On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 8:43 PM, Chris Twiggs <Twiggsc@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > As I understand it now, dnf's get no extra tickets compared to wait listers
                            > > who get one. Further penalizing dnf'ers would be a controversial board
                            > > decision to say the least. We all start HR100 with the intention of
                            > > finishing, which I don't believe is the case in some other ultras. I choose
                            > > not to second-guess anyone who decides to drop, and I certainly would not
                            > > wish to take away tickets they had earned through other finishes or other
                            > > wait list experiences.
                            > >
                            > > (Autofill wanted wait listers to be wait lusters, which I now propose
                            > > become their official designation.)
                            > >
                            > > Chris from flat Florida
                            > >
                            > > Sent from my iPhone
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > On Oct 21, 2010, at 8:34 PM, Steve Kral <bvstablemail@...<bvstablemail%40yahoo.com>>
                            > > wrote:
                            > >
                            > > > They be better if people who DNFed any time in the past 3 years had one
                            > > ticket taken away for each such occurrence....
                            > > > stevekral
                            > > > --- On Thu, 10/21/10, David Clark <irishsailsman@...<irishsailsman%40comcast.net>>
                            > > wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > > From: David Clark <irishsailsman@...<irishsailsman%40comcast.net>
                            > > >
                            > > > Subject: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds
                            > > > To: hr100@yahoogroups.com <hr100%40yahoogroups.com>
                            > > > Date: Thursday, October 21, 2010, 6:03 PM
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > Does anyone have any information on when we will be able to submit an
                            > > application for lottery?
                            > > >
                            > > > Also- historically, what are the odds of actually getting in?
                            > > >
                            > > > Thanks.
                            > > >
                            > > > David Clark
                            > > >
                            > > > Max Muscle Sports Nutrition
                            > > >
                            > > > Longmont
                            > > >
                            > > > (C) 720-275-2197
                            > > >
                            > > > -Outreach Manager
                            > > >
                            > > > -NESTA Certified Sports Nutrition Coach
                            > > >
                            > > > -RRCA Certified Running Coach
                            > > >
                            > > > - Sent from my iPhone
                            > > >
                            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > > >
                            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > >
                            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                            > ------------------------------------
                            >
                            > To Post a message, send it to: hr100@...
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                          • Chris Twiggs
                            Joe Prusaitis did it. Sent from my iPhone ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            Message 13 of 25 , Oct 21, 2010
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Joe Prusaitis did it.

                              Sent from my iPhone

                              On Oct 21, 2010, at 10:13 PM, tedes12@... wrote:

                              > Man after doing Hardrock one time I see what the fuss is all about!!! It is truly a one-of-a-kind ultra. I hope I make it in a second year.
                              >
                              > Have you ever heard of anyone running both Hardrock and Badwater in the same year. If so did they finish either or both?
                              > Terry Sentinella
                              > Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
                              >
                              > -----Original Message-----
                              > From: Deb P <mtnrunner02@...>
                              > Sender: hr100@yahoogroups.com
                              > Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 20:46:24
                              > To: <hr100@yahoogroups.com>
                              > Reply-To: hr100@yahoogroups.com
                              > Subject: Re: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds
                              >
                              > that's one of the best spell check recommendations I've seen in quite
                              > awhile. I agree..
                              > wait lusters! ha!!
                              >
                              > On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 8:43 PM, Chris Twiggs <Twiggsc@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > As I understand it now, dnf's get no extra tickets compared to wait listers
                              > > who get one. Further penalizing dnf'ers would be a controversial board
                              > > decision to say the least. We all start HR100 with the intention of
                              > > finishing, which I don't believe is the case in some other ultras. I choose
                              > > not to second-guess anyone who decides to drop, and I certainly would not
                              > > wish to take away tickets they had earned through other finishes or other
                              > > wait list experiences.
                              > >
                              > > (Autofill wanted wait listers to be wait lusters, which I now propose
                              > > become their official designation.)
                              > >
                              > > Chris from flat Florida
                              > >
                              > > Sent from my iPhone
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > On Oct 21, 2010, at 8:34 PM, Steve Kral <bvstablemail@...<bvstablemail%40yahoo.com>>
                              > > wrote:
                              > >
                              > > > They be better if people who DNFed any time in the past 3 years had one
                              > > ticket taken away for each such occurrence....
                              > > > stevekral
                              > > > --- On Thu, 10/21/10, David Clark <irishsailsman@...<irishsailsman%40comcast.net>>
                              > > wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > From: David Clark <irishsailsman@...<irishsailsman%40comcast.net>
                              > > >
                              > > > Subject: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds
                              > > > To: hr100@yahoogroups.com <hr100%40yahoogroups.com>
                              > > > Date: Thursday, October 21, 2010, 6:03 PM
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > Does anyone have any information on when we will be able to submit an
                              > > application for lottery?
                              > > >
                              > > > Also- historically, what are the odds of actually getting in?
                              > > >
                              > > > Thanks.
                              > > >
                              > > > David Clark
                              > > >
                              > > > Max Muscle Sports Nutrition
                              > > >
                              > > > Longmont
                              > > >
                              > > > (C) 720-275-2197
                              > > >
                              > > > -Outreach Manager
                              > > >
                              > > > -NESTA Certified Sports Nutrition Coach
                              > > >
                              > > > -RRCA Certified Running Coach
                              > > >
                              > > > - Sent from my iPhone
                              > > >
                              > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > > >
                              > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > >
                              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > ------------------------------------
                              >
                              > To Post a message, send it to: hr100@...
                              >
                              > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: hr100-unsubscribe@...! Groups Links
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Chris Twiggs
                              I remember telling Joe that BW seemed like the exact opposite of what I love about HR. He said, It is. That s part of the challenge. . That was the moment I
                              Message 14 of 25 , Oct 21, 2010
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                                I remember telling Joe that BW seemed like the exact opposite of what I love about HR. He said, "It is. That's part of the challenge.". That was the moment I started thinking about BW. However, I can't see giving up HR, so if I ever do it, it will have to be a double.

                                Chris

                                Sent from my iPhone

                                On Oct 21, 2010, at 11:41 PM, Chris Twiggs <Twiggsc@...> wrote:

                                > Joe Prusaitis did it.
                                >
                                > Sent from my iPhone
                                >
                                > On Oct 21, 2010, at 10:13 PM, tedes12@... wrote:
                                >
                                > > Man after doing Hardrock one time I see what the fuss is all about!!! It is truly a one-of-a-kind ultra. I hope I make it in a second year.
                                > >
                                > > Have you ever heard of anyone running both Hardrock and Badwater in the same year. If so did they finish either or both?
                                > > Terry Sentinella
                                > > Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
                                > >
                                > > -----Original Message-----
                                > > From: Deb P <mtnrunner02@...>
                                > > Sender: hr100@yahoogroups.com
                                > > Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 20:46:24
                                > > To: <hr100@yahoogroups.com>
                                > > Reply-To: hr100@yahoogroups.com
                                > > Subject: Re: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds
                                > >
                                > > that's one of the best spell check recommendations I've seen in quite
                                > > awhile. I agree..
                                > > wait lusters! ha!!
                                > >
                                > > On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 8:43 PM, Chris Twiggs <Twiggsc@...> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > As I understand it now, dnf's get no extra tickets compared to wait listers
                                > > > who get one. Further penalizing dnf'ers would be a controversial board
                                > > > decision to say the least. We all start HR100 with the intention of
                                > > > finishing, which I don't believe is the case in some other ultras. I choose
                                > > > not to second-guess anyone who decides to drop, and I certainly would not
                                > > > wish to take away tickets they had earned through other finishes or other
                                > > > wait list experiences.
                                > > >
                                > > > (Autofill wanted wait listers to be wait lusters, which I now propose
                                > > > become their official designation.)
                                > > >
                                > > > Chris from flat Florida
                                > > >
                                > > > Sent from my iPhone
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > On Oct 21, 2010, at 8:34 PM, Steve Kral <bvstablemail@...<bvstablemail%40yahoo.com>>
                                > > > wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > > > They be better if people who DNFed any time in the past 3 years had one
                                > > > ticket taken away for each such occurrence....
                                > > > > stevekral
                                > > > > --- On Thu, 10/21/10, David Clark <irishsailsman@...<irishsailsman%40comcast.net>>
                                > > > wrote:
                                > > > >
                                > > > > From: David Clark <irishsailsman@...<irishsailsman%40comcast.net>
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Subject: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds
                                > > > > To: hr100@yahoogroups.com <hr100%40yahoogroups.com>
                                > > > > Date: Thursday, October 21, 2010, 6:03 PM
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Does anyone have any information on when we will be able to submit an
                                > > > application for lottery?
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Also- historically, what are the odds of actually getting in?
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Thanks.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > David Clark
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Max Muscle Sports Nutrition
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Longmont
                                > > > >
                                > > > > (C) 720-275-2197
                                > > > >
                                > > > > -Outreach Manager
                                > > > >
                                > > > > -NESTA Certified Sports Nutrition Coach
                                > > > >
                                > > > > -RRCA Certified Running Coach
                                > > > >
                                > > > > - Sent from my iPhone
                                > > > >
                                > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                > > > >
                                > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > ------------------------------------
                                > >
                                > > To Post a message, send it to: hr100@...
                                > >
                                > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: hr100-unsubscribe@...! Groups Links
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                                >


                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Matt Mahoney
                                ... atleast once in the past 5 years to get in the lottery Here is a better idea. How about not allowing pacers? That way the race could support more runners.
                                Message 15 of 25 , Oct 22, 2010
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  james varner wrote:
                                  > i like that idea steve(even though that would cost me a ticket) and how
                                  >about requiring volunteering at a hardrock aid station or pacing(50miles) at
                                  >hardrock
                                  atleast once in the past 5 years to get in the lottery

                                  Here is a better idea. How about not allowing pacers? That way the race could
                                  support more runners. It also might cut down on the number of less qualified
                                  entries.

                                  Also, how about some extra allowance for the best runners so that a win or a
                                  course record actually means something? This is a race, after all, even if only
                                  the top runners treat it that way. Hardrock will never see a showdown between
                                  the likes of Krupicka, Matt Carpenter, and Killian Jornet because it is unlikely
                                  all of them could ever get in the lottery with just one ticket each. Make the
                                  standards clear, like a top 10 finish in a qualifying race in the last 2 years.
                                  As it is now, a Hardrock trophy just means you were lucky enough to get in and
                                  your faster competition was not. Who cares? If you are doing it just for the
                                  experience, then you can hike the course any time.

                                  Everyone else should go on a multi-year waiting list, starting with the wait
                                  list from this year. Enter any time, and your name goes on the end. If you can't
                                  make it during the year when your name comes up, then you go to the back of the
                                  line again.

                                  Steve Kral wrote:
                                  > They be better if people who DNFed any time in the past 3 years had one
                                  >ticket taken away for each such occurrence....

                                  Yeah, my 48:00:28 DNF in 2007 shows that I really suck at this. My fault for not
                                  using a crew, pacer, or drop bags.

                                  -- Matt Mahoney, matmahoney@...




                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Steve Pero
                                  It s my understanding that Hardrock never was or never will be considered a race . The idea is for people (I very very loosely call us runners) to enjoy the
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Oct 22, 2010
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                                    It's my understanding that Hardrock never was or never will be considered a
                                    "race". The idea is for people (I very very loosely call us runners) to
                                    enjoy the San Juans in an Endurance event. It is named the Hardrock Hundred
                                    Endurance Run.
                                    The 48 hour cutoff is to give the participants plenty of time to get it done
                                    and still be able to find cover in the event of a storm. Sure, the faster
                                    runners do "race" each other, but I enjoy seeing John Dewalt come across the
                                    line bent at the waist or Jennifer Roach last year kissing the rock with
                                    tears streaming down her face with only minutes to spare....that's what
                                    Hardrock is all about.
                                    I can't imagine anyone devoting the energy to enter the lottery and then
                                    train for Hardrock without planning on finishing...I would hope if someone
                                    was planning on not running the whole run, then they would step aside and
                                    give the next wait luster their spot and pace instead.

                                    Now that the racing season is about over, everyone must be getting anxious
                                    about the lottery already ;-) Good to see the activity...

                                    See you in June!
                                    Steve (2 finishes out of 7 attempts)


                                    On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 8:45 AM, Matt Mahoney <matmahoney@...> wrote:


                                    Also, how about some extra allowance for the best runners so that a win or a

                                    course record actually means something? This is a race, after all, even if
                                    only
                                    the top runners treat it that way. Hardrock will never see a showdown
                                    between
                                    the likes of Krupicka, Matt Carpenter, and Killian Jornet because it is
                                    unlikely
                                    all of them could ever get in the lottery with just one ticket each. Make
                                    the
                                    standards clear, like a top 10 finish in a qualifying race in the last 2
                                    years.
                                    As it is now, a Hardrock trophy just means you were lucky enough to get in
                                    and
                                    your faster competition was not. Who cares? If you are doing it just for the

                                    experience, then you can hike the course any time.


                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Matt Mahoney
                                    ... Some people don t consider a 5K a race. They are perfectly happy to walk or jog it with a group of friends in 40 minutes and get a T-shirt and some food
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Oct 22, 2010
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                                      Steve Pero wrote:
                                      > It's my understanding that Hardrock never was or never will be considered
                                      >a "race".

                                      Some people don't consider a 5K a race. They are perfectly happy to walk or jog
                                      it with a group of friends in 40 minutes and get a T-shirt and some food
                                      afterward and not worry about the awards.

                                      Others look at Hardrock and see:
                                      - A start line
                                      - A finish line
                                      - A prescribed and marked course
                                      - A clock
                                      - An official says "go"
                                      - Finish results
                                      - Awards based on finish order
                                      which sure looks to me like a race. (The fact that a 40 minute 5K pace would set
                                      a course record is irrelevant).

                                      And if it's not a race, then why are there pacers? Some say it is a safety
                                      issue. Sorry, I have to call BS. In a typical big city marathon with 30,000
                                      runners, you can statistically expect one death. If all of those runners had
                                      pacers, then the runners might feel safer, but you would instead average two
                                      deaths. Elite runners use pacers because when you are chasing six figure prize
                                      money at 4:48/mile, wind resistance matters. I fail to see how it matters when
                                      you are crawling up Grant-Swamp pass. Any advantage will probably be offset by
                                      your pacer accidentally pushing rocks down on you. (Ask David Horton about his
                                      broken finger).

                                      IMHO pacing is just a way to run half the race for free, either because you
                                      didn't get in the lottery or because you weren't trained well enough to run the
                                      whole thing.

                                      -- Matt Mahoney, matmahoney@...




                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • Don
                                      I ve never liked the basic unfairness of the weighted lottery I don t think anyone should have preferential treatment,Don Platt Sent from my iPhone On Oct
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Oct 22, 2010
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        I've never liked the basic unfairness of the "weighted" lottery I don' t think anyone should have preferential treatment,Don Platt

                                        Sent from my iPhone

                                        On Oct 21, 2010, at 6:43 PM, Chris Twiggs <Twiggsc@...> wrote:

                                        We all start HR100 with the intention of finishing,= which I don't believe is the case in some other ultras. I choose not to se= cond-guess anyone who decides to drop, and I certainly would not wish to ta= ke away tickets they had earned through other finishes or other wait list e= xperiences.=20 (Autofill wanted wait listers to be wait lusters, which I now propose becom= e their official designation.) Chris from flat Florida Sent from my iPhone On Oct 21, 2010, at 8:34 PM, Steve Kral wrote: > They be better if people who DNFed any time in the past 3 years had one t= icket taken away for each such occurrence.... > stevekral > --- On Thu, 10/21/10, David Clark wrote: >=20 > From: David Clark > Subject: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds > To: hr100@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, October 21, 2010, 6:03 PM >=20 >=20=20 >=20 > Does anyone have any information on when we will be able to submit an app= lication for lottery? >=20 > Also- historically,
                                        what are the odds of actually getting in?=20 >=20 > Thanks. >=20 > David Clark >=20 > Max Muscle Sports Nutrition >=20 > Longmont >=20 > (C) 720-275-2197 >=20 > -Outreach Manager >=20 > -NESTA Certified Sports Nutrition Coach >=20 > -RRCA Certified Running Coach >=20 > - Sent from my iPhone >=20 > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >=20 > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >=20 >=20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] --lYd6vZmEvgw0fgrUKQjgghzBnPJSDRkF0BBv9SV Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
                                        As I understand it now, dnf's get no extra tickets compared to wait listers who get one. Further penalizing dnf'ers would be a controversial board decision to say the least. We all start HR100 with the intention of finishing, which I don't believe is the case in some other ultras. I choose not to second-guess anyone who decides to drop, and I certainly would not wish to take away tickets they had earned through other finishes or other wait list experiences.

                                        (Autofill wanted wait listers to be wait lusters, which I now propose become their official designation.)

                                        Chris from flat Florida

                                        Sent from my iPhone

                                        On Oct 21, 2010, at 8:34 PM, Steve Kral <bvstablemail@...> wrote:

                                        > They be better if people who DNFed any time in the past 3 years had one ticket taken away for each such occurrence....
                                        > stevekral
                                        > --- On Thu, 10/21/10, David Clark <irishsailsman@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > From: David Clark <irishsailsman@...>
                                        > Subject: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds
                                        > To: hr100@yahoogroups.com
                                        > Date: Thursday, October 21, 2010, 6:03 PM
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Does anyone have any information on when we will be able to submit an application for lottery?
                                        >
                                        > Also- historically, what are the odds of actually getting in?
                                        >
                                        > Thanks.
                                        >
                                        > David Clark
                                        >
                                        > Max Muscle Sports Nutrition
                                        >
                                        > Longmont
                                        >
                                        > (C) 720-275-2197
                                        >
                                        > -Outreach Manager
                                        >
                                        > -NESTA Certified Sports Nutrition Coach
                                        >
                                        > -RRCA Certified Running Coach
                                        >
                                        > - Sent from my iPhone
                                        >
                                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        >
                                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        >
                                        >

                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • azsmokin
                                        I ve finished Hardrock twice out of 3 attempts. My first try was a DNF in 05 and it could be said that my pacer, Tim Varner and Steve Patillo saved my life. I
                                        Message 19 of 25 , Oct 22, 2010
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          I've finished Hardrock twice out of 3 attempts. My first try was a DNF in
                                          '05 and it could be said that my pacer, Tim Varner and Steve Patillo saved
                                          my life.

                                          I was blindsided by a condition called Metabolic Acidosis as I was
                                          descending to Ouray from Engineers. I slowly lost all muscle control and
                                          eventually could not stand on my own. Not a good place on the course to be
                                          in such bad shape. I was like a falling down drunk but my head felt fine.
                                          Tim had to hold me up by my packstraps as we slowly made our way to the 550
                                          tunnel to wait on the ambulance that Steve, who had caught up to us, had ran
                                          ahead to call for. The emergency room Doc said I was very lucky as the
                                          condition could be fatal if left untreated. He didn't have to mention the
                                          sudden stop into Bear Creek had I fallen off the trail.

                                          Was I trained enough for the course? I thought so.

                                          Did I know what I was getting into? I thought so.

                                          My wife really likes for me to use pacers now. I used 3 the last time.
                                          Besides, I want them to see what I get to see.



                                          Bob Bachani

                                          Tucson, AZ

                                          _____

                                          From: hr100@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hr100@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Matt
                                          Mahoney
                                          Sent: Friday, October 22, 2010 7:08 AM
                                          To: hr100@yahoogroups.com
                                          Subject: Re: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds





                                          Steve Pero wrote:
                                          > It's my understanding that Hardrock never was or never will be considered
                                          >a "race".

                                          Some people don't consider a 5K a race. They are perfectly happy to walk or
                                          jog
                                          it with a group of friends in 40 minutes and get a T-shirt and some food
                                          afterward and not worry about the awards.

                                          Others look at Hardrock and see:
                                          - A start line
                                          - A finish line
                                          - A prescribed and marked course
                                          - A clock
                                          - An official says "go"
                                          - Finish results
                                          - Awards based on finish order
                                          which sure looks to me like a race. (The fact that a 40 minute 5K pace would
                                          set
                                          a course record is irrelevant).

                                          And if it's not a race, then why are there pacers? Some say it is a safety
                                          issue. Sorry, I have to call BS. In a typical big city marathon with 30,000
                                          runners, you can statistically expect one death. If all of those runners had

                                          pacers, then the runners might feel safer, but you would instead average two

                                          deaths. Elite runners use pacers because when you are chasing six figure
                                          prize
                                          money at 4:48/mile, wind resistance matters. I fail to see how it matters
                                          when
                                          you are crawling up Grant-Swamp pass. Any advantage will probably be offset
                                          by
                                          your pacer accidentally pushing rocks down on you. (Ask David Horton about
                                          his
                                          broken finger).

                                          IMHO pacing is just a way to run half the race for free, either because you
                                          didn't get in the lottery or because you weren't trained well enough to run
                                          the
                                          whole thing.

                                          -- Matt Mahoney, matmahoney@... <mailto:matmahoney%40yahoo.com>

                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • Twiggsc@aol.com
                                          Well put, Bob! I use pacers and treasure the time I spend with them. They are my good friends. Anyone who stands there offering encouragement while I puke is
                                          Message 20 of 25 , Oct 22, 2010
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Well put, Bob!

                                            I use pacers and treasure the time I spend with them. They are my good friends. Anyone who stands there offering encouragement while I puke is more family than friend. However, I respect that my fellow Floridian, Matt, never uses them. I won't try to force a pacer on him, and I don't think he will try to take mine away.







                                            -----Original Message-----
                                            From: azsmokin <azsmokin@...>
                                            To: hr100@yahoogroups.com
                                            Sent: Fri, Oct 22, 2010 10:59 am
                                            Subject: RE: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds





                                            I've finished Hardrock twice out of 3 attempts. My first try was a DNF in
                                            '05 and it could be said that my pacer, Tim Varner and Steve Patillo saved
                                            my life.

                                            I was blindsided by a condition called Metabolic Acidosis as I was
                                            descending to Ouray from Engineers. I slowly lost all muscle control and
                                            eventually could not stand on my own. Not a good place on the course to be
                                            in such bad shape. I was like a falling down drunk but my head felt fine.
                                            Tim had to hold me up by my packstraps as we slowly made our way to the 550
                                            tunnel to wait on the ambulance that Steve, who had caught up to us, had ran
                                            ahead to call for. The emergency room Doc said I was very lucky as the
                                            condition could be fatal if left untreated. He didn't have to mention the
                                            sudden stop into Bear Creek had I fallen off the trail.

                                            Was I trained enough for the course? I thought so.

                                            Did I know what I was getting into? I thought so.

                                            My wife really likes for me to use pacers now. I used 3 the last time.
                                            Besides, I want them to see what I get to see.

                                            Bob Bachani

                                            Tucson, AZ

                                            _____

                                            From: hr100@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hr100@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Matt
                                            Mahoney
                                            Sent: Friday, October 22, 2010 7:08 AM
                                            To: hr100@yahoogroups.com
                                            Subject: Re: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds

                                            Steve Pero wrote:
                                            > It's my understanding that Hardrock never was or never will be considered
                                            >a "race".

                                            Some people don't consider a 5K a race. They are perfectly happy to walk or
                                            jog
                                            it with a group of friends in 40 minutes and get a T-shirt and some food
                                            afterward and not worry about the awards.

                                            Others look at Hardrock and see:
                                            - A start line
                                            - A finish line
                                            - A prescribed and marked course
                                            - A clock
                                            - An official says "go"
                                            - Finish results
                                            - Awards based on finish order
                                            which sure looks to me like a race. (The fact that a 40 minute 5K pace would
                                            set
                                            a course record is irrelevant).

                                            And if it's not a race, then why are there pacers? Some say it is a safety
                                            issue. Sorry, I have to call BS. In a typical big city marathon with 30,000
                                            runners, you can statistically expect one death. If all of those runners had

                                            pacers, then the runners might feel safer, but you would instead average two

                                            deaths. Elite runners use pacers because when you are chasing six figure
                                            prize
                                            money at 4:48/mile, wind resistance matters. I fail to see how it matters
                                            when
                                            you are crawling up Grant-Swamp pass. Any advantage will probably be offset
                                            by
                                            your pacer accidentally pushing rocks down on you. (Ask David Horton about
                                            his
                                            broken finger).

                                            IMHO pacing is just a way to run half the race for free, either because you
                                            didn't get in the lottery or because you weren't trained well enough to run
                                            the
                                            whole thing.

                                            -- Matt Mahoney, matmahoney@... <mailto:matmahoney%40yahoo.com>;

                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]









                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • Steve Kral
                                            I wholly agree Chris, controversial to say the least is an understatement. Still, abolishing slavery and giving the women the right to vote were all
                                            Message 21 of 25 , Oct 22, 2010
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              I wholly agree Chris, 'controversial to say the least' is an understatement. Still, abolishing slavery and giving the women the right to vote were all controversial ideas in their day...one even started a war...but somehow progress seems to stem from progressive ideas.

                                              --- On Thu, 10/21/10, Chris Twiggs <Twiggsc@...> wrote:

                                              From: Chris Twiggs <Twiggsc@...>
                                              Subject: Re: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds
                                              To: "hr100@yahoogroups.com" <hr100@yahoogroups.com>
                                              Date: Thursday, October 21, 2010, 8:43 PM
















                                               









                                              As I understand it now, dnf's get no extra tickets compared to wait listers who get one. Further penalizing dnf'ers would be a controversial board decision to say the least. We all start HR100 with the intention of finishing, which I don't believe is the case in some other ultras. I choose not to second-guess anyone who decides to drop, and I certainly would not wish to take away tickets they had earned through other finishes or other wait list experiences.



                                              (Autofill wanted wait listers to be wait lusters, which I now propose become their official designation.)



                                              Chris from flat Florida



                                              Sent from my iPhone



                                              On Oct 21, 2010, at 8:34 PM, Steve Kral <bvstablemail@...> wrote:



                                              > They be better if people who DNFed any time in the past 3 years had one ticket taken away for each such occurrence....

                                              > stevekral

                                              > --- On Thu, 10/21/10, David Clark <irishsailsman@...> wrote:

                                              >

                                              > From: David Clark <irishsailsman@...>

                                              > Subject: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds

                                              > To: hr100@yahoogroups.com

                                              > Date: Thursday, October 21, 2010, 6:03 PM

                                              >

                                              >

                                              >

                                              > Does anyone have any information on when we will be able to submit an application for lottery?

                                              >

                                              > Also- historically, what are the odds of actually getting in?

                                              >

                                              > Thanks.

                                              >

                                              > David Clark

                                              >

                                              > Max Muscle Sports Nutrition

                                              >

                                              > Longmont

                                              >

                                              > (C) 720-275-2197

                                              >

                                              > -Outreach Manager

                                              >

                                              > -NESTA Certified Sports Nutrition Coach

                                              >

                                              > -RRCA Certified Running Coach

                                              >

                                              > - Sent from my iPhone

                                              >

                                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                              >

                                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                              >

                                              >



                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






























                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            • Michael Bur
                                              Interesting. How are you defining progressive here and more to the point, what are the aspects of the current HR lottery system that you feel are not
                                              Message 22 of 25 , Oct 22, 2010
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                Interesting.

                                                How are you defining "progressive" here and more to the point, what are the aspects of the current HR lottery system that you feel are not "progressive"? The DNFer is already effectively penalized WRT to a waitlister in that if they start and don't finish, they don't get the ticket; so the following year, the waitlister starts off in a better position when compared to the person who DNFed(all other things being equal).

                                                As far as "progressive" goes, other than the MMT lottery(http://www.vhtrc.org/mmt/entry.htm), which by way of full disclosure, I helped design, I don't know of any other 100 entry that has put as much thought into their design in terms of consideration and balancing all of the various aspects, interests and stakeholders of the event. I know from experience that there are many, many aspects to consider when designing an entry system for an event that is oversubscribed. Some of them are in direct opposition to each other. It isn't easy trying to get them all to balance out in a "fair" way. It is also important to note here that what one may considered "fair" to them as an individual may not(and often is not!) the same as what the board/rd considers "fair" for the overall event.

                                                In looking at what we(the VHTRC) did with MMT, I think there are other, far more "progressive" ideas that HR could incorporate to their lottery/entry before they resorted to taking away tickets from folks who DNFed.

                                                Best,
                                                Mike Bur(former VHTRC president, 4x Hardrocker)
                                                Kensington, MD

                                                --- On Fri, 10/22/10, Steve Kral <bvstablemail@...> wrote:

                                                > From: Steve Kral <bvstablemail@...>
                                                > Subject: Re: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds
                                                > To: hr100@yahoogroups.com
                                                > Date: Friday, October 22, 2010, 12:43 PM
                                                > I wholly agree Chris, 'controversial
                                                > to say the least' is an understatement. Still, abolishing
                                                > slavery and giving the women the right to vote were all
                                                > controversial ideas in their day...one even started a
                                                > war...but somehow progress seems to stem from progressive
                                                > ideas.
                                                >
                                                > --- On Thu, 10/21/10, Chris Twiggs <Twiggsc@...>
                                                > wrote:
                                                >
                                                > From: Chris Twiggs <Twiggsc@...>
                                                > Subject: Re: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds
                                                > To: "hr100@yahoogroups.com"
                                                > <hr100@yahoogroups.com>
                                                > Date: Thursday, October 21, 2010, 8:43 PM
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >  
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >  
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >    
                                                >      
                                                >      
                                                >       As I understand it now, dnf's get no
                                                > extra tickets compared to wait listers who get one. Further
                                                > penalizing dnf'ers would be a controversial board decision
                                                > to say the least. We all start HR100 with the intention of
                                                > finishing, which I don't believe is the case in some other
                                                > ultras. I choose not to second-guess anyone who decides to
                                                > drop, and I certainly would not wish to take away tickets
                                                > they had earned through other finishes or other wait list
                                                > experiences.
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > (Autofill wanted wait listers to be wait lusters, which I
                                                > now propose become their official designation.)
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > Chris from flat Florida
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > Sent from my iPhone
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > On Oct 21, 2010, at 8:34 PM, Steve Kral <bvstablemail@...>
                                                > wrote:
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > > They be better if people who DNFed any time in the
                                                > past 3 years had one ticket taken away for each such
                                                > occurrence....
                                                >
                                                > > stevekral
                                                >
                                                > > --- On Thu, 10/21/10, David Clark <irishsailsman@...>
                                                > wrote:
                                                >
                                                > >
                                                >
                                                > > From: David Clark <irishsailsman@...>
                                                >
                                                > > Subject: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds
                                                >
                                                > > To: hr100@yahoogroups.com
                                                >
                                                > > Date: Thursday, October 21, 2010, 6:03 PM
                                                >
                                                > >
                                                >
                                                > > 
                                                >
                                                > >
                                                >
                                                > > Does anyone have any information on when we will be
                                                > able to submit an application for lottery?
                                                >
                                                > >
                                                >
                                                > > Also- historically, what are the odds of actually
                                                > getting in?
                                                >
                                                > >
                                                >
                                                > > Thanks.
                                                >
                                                > >
                                                >
                                                > > David Clark
                                                >
                                                > >
                                                >
                                                > > Max Muscle Sports Nutrition
                                                >
                                                > >
                                                >
                                                > > Longmont
                                                >
                                                > >
                                                >
                                                > > (C) 720-275-2197
                                                >
                                                > >
                                                >
                                                > > -Outreach Manager
                                                >
                                                > >
                                                >
                                                > > -NESTA Certified Sports Nutrition Coach
                                                >
                                                > >
                                                >
                                                > > -RRCA Certified Running Coach
                                                >
                                                > >
                                                >
                                                > > - Sent from my iPhone
                                                >
                                                > >
                                                >
                                                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                >
                                                > >
                                                >
                                                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                >
                                                > >
                                                >
                                                > >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >    
                                                >      
                                                >
                                                >    
                                                >    
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >  
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >      
                                                >
                                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > ------------------------------------
                                                >
                                                > To Post a message, send it to:   hr100@...
                                                >
                                                > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: hr100-unsubscribe@...!
                                                > Groups Links
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >     hr100-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                              • Andy Hewat
                                                I think the HR entry system is very civilized. While the lottery has been kind to me, I like the weighted system and the auto entry for 5 time finishers. I
                                                Message 23 of 25 , Oct 23, 2010
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  I think the HR entry system is very civilized. While the lottery has been kind to me, I like the weighted system and the auto entry for 5 time finishers. I could see the benefit of saving a handful of spots for the elite to ensure high quality at the pointy end but that would make it just that little bit tougher for the rest of us. I do find myself looking on enviously at those 5 time finishers at the presentation.
                                                  Andy (3 from 3)


                                                  --- On Sat, 23/10/10, Michael Bur <mjcbur@...> wrote:

                                                  From: Michael Bur <mjcbur@...>
                                                  Subject: Re: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds
                                                  To: hr100@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Received: Saturday, 23 October, 2010, 5:33 AM
















                                                   











                                                  Interesting.



                                                  How are you defining "progressive" here and more to the point, what are the aspects of the current HR lottery system that you feel are not "progressive"? The DNFer is already effectively penalized WRT to a waitlister in that if they start and don't finish, they don't get the ticket; so the following year, the waitlister starts off in a better position when compared to the person who DNFed(all other things being equal).



                                                  As far as "progressive" goes, other than the MMT lottery(http://www.vhtrc.org/mmt/entry.htm), which by way of full disclosure, I helped design, I don't know of any other 100 entry that has put as much thought into their design in terms of consideration and balancing all of the various aspects, interests and stakeholders of the event. I know from experience that there are many, many aspects to consider when designing an entry system for an event that is oversubscribed. Some of them are in direct opposition to each other. It isn't easy trying to get them all to balance out in a "fair" way. It is also important to note here that what one may considered "fair" to them as an individual may not(and often is not!) the same as what the board/rd considers "fair" for the overall event.



                                                  In looking at what we(the VHTRC) did with MMT, I think there are other, far more "progressive" ideas that HR could incorporate to their lottery/entry before they resorted to taking away tickets from folks who DNFed.



                                                  Best,

                                                  Mike Bur(former VHTRC president, 4x Hardrocker)

                                                  Kensington, MD



                                                  --- On Fri, 10/22/10, Steve Kral <bvstablemail@...> wrote:



                                                  > From: Steve Kral <bvstablemail@...>

                                                  > Subject: Re: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds

                                                  > To: hr100@yahoogroups.com

                                                  > Date: Friday, October 22, 2010, 12:43 PM

                                                  > I wholly agree Chris, 'controversial

                                                  > to say the least' is an understatement. Still, abolishing

                                                  > slavery and giving the women the right to vote were all

                                                  > controversial ideas in their day...one even started a

                                                  > war...but somehow progress seems to stem from progressive

                                                  > ideas.

                                                  >

                                                  > --- On Thu, 10/21/10, Chris Twiggs <Twiggsc@...>

                                                  > wrote:

                                                  >

                                                  > From: Chris Twiggs <Twiggsc@...>

                                                  > Subject: Re: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds

                                                  > To: "hr100@yahoogroups.com"

                                                  > <hr100@yahoogroups.com>

                                                  > Date: Thursday, October 21, 2010, 8:43 PM

                                                  >

                                                  >

                                                  >

                                                  >

                                                  >

                                                  >

                                                  >

                                                  >

                                                  >

                                                  >

                                                  >

                                                  >

                                                  >

                                                  >

                                                  >

                                                  >

                                                  >  

                                                  >

                                                  >

                                                  >

                                                  >  

                                                  >

                                                  >

                                                  >    

                                                  >      

                                                  >      

                                                  >       As I understand it now, dnf's get no

                                                  > extra tickets compared to wait listers who get one. Further

                                                  > penalizing dnf'ers would be a controversial board decision

                                                  > to say the least. We all start HR100 with the intention of

                                                  > finishing, which I don't believe is the case in some other

                                                  > ultras. I choose not to second-guess anyone who decides to

                                                  > drop, and I certainly would not wish to take away tickets

                                                  > they had earned through other finishes or other wait list

                                                  > experiences.

                                                  >

                                                  >

                                                  >

                                                  > (Autofill wanted wait listers to be wait lusters, which I

                                                  > now propose become their official designation.)

                                                  >

                                                  >

                                                  >

                                                  > Chris from flat Florida

                                                  >

                                                  >

                                                  >

                                                  > Sent from my iPhone

                                                  >

                                                  >

                                                  >

                                                  > On Oct 21, 2010, at 8:34 PM, Steve Kral <bvstablemail@...>

                                                  > wrote:

                                                  >

                                                  >

                                                  >

                                                  > > They be better if people who DNFed any time in the

                                                  > past 3 years had one ticket taken away for each such

                                                  > occurrence....

                                                  >

                                                  > > stevekral

                                                  >

                                                  > > --- On Thu, 10/21/10, David Clark <irishsailsman@...>

                                                  > wrote:

                                                  >

                                                  > >

                                                  >

                                                  > > From: David Clark <irishsailsman@...>

                                                  >

                                                  > > Subject: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds

                                                  >

                                                  > > To: hr100@yahoogroups.com

                                                  >

                                                  > > Date: Thursday, October 21, 2010, 6:03 PM

                                                  >

                                                  > >

                                                  >

                                                  > > 

                                                  >

                                                  > >

                                                  >

                                                  > > Does anyone have any information on when we will be

                                                  > able to submit an application for lottery?

                                                  >

                                                  > >

                                                  >

                                                  > > Also- historically, what are the odds of actually

                                                  > getting in?

                                                  >

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                                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                • Chris Twiggs
                                                  You ll have that five timer finishing jacket in no time, Andy. Sent from my iPhone ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                  Message 24 of 25 , Oct 23, 2010
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    You'll have that five timer finishing jacket in no time, Andy.

                                                    Sent from my iPhone

                                                    On Oct 23, 2010, at 9:38 AM, Andy Hewat <hewat.andy@...> wrote:

                                                    > I think the HR entry system is very civilized. While the lottery has been kind to me, I like the weighted system and the auto entry for 5 time finishers. I could see the benefit of saving a handful of spots for the elite to ensure high quality at the pointy end but that would make it just that little bit tougher for the rest of us. I do find myself looking on enviously at those 5 time finishers at the presentation.
                                                    > Andy (3 from 3)
                                                    >
                                                    > --- On Sat, 23/10/10, Michael Bur <mjcbur@...> wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    > From: Michael Bur <mjcbur@...>
                                                    > Subject: Re: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds
                                                    > To: hr100@yahoogroups.com
                                                    > Received: Saturday, 23 October, 2010, 5:33 AM
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > Interesting.
                                                    >
                                                    > How are you defining "progressive" here and more to the point, what are the aspects of the current HR lottery system that you feel are not "progressive"? The DNFer is already effectively penalized WRT to a waitlister in that if they start and don't finish, they don't get the ticket; so the following year, the waitlister starts off in a better position when compared to the person who DNFed(all other things being equal).
                                                    >
                                                    > As far as "progressive" goes, other than the MMT lottery(http://www.vhtrc.org/mmt/entry.htm), which by way of full disclosure, I helped design, I don't know of any other 100 entry that has put as much thought into their design in terms of consideration and balancing all of the various aspects, interests and stakeholders of the event. I know from experience that there are many, many aspects to consider when designing an entry system for an event that is oversubscribed. Some of them are in direct opposition to each other. It isn't easy trying to get them all to balance out in a "fair" way. It is also important to note here that what one may considered "fair" to them as an individual may not(and often is not!) the same as what the board/rd considers "fair" for the overall event.
                                                    >
                                                    > In looking at what we(the VHTRC) did with MMT, I think there are other, far more "progressive" ideas that HR could incorporate to their lottery/entry before they resorted to taking away tickets from folks who DNFed.
                                                    >
                                                    > Best,
                                                    >
                                                    > Mike Bur(former VHTRC president, 4x Hardrocker)
                                                    >
                                                    > Kensington, MD
                                                    >
                                                    > --- On Fri, 10/22/10, Steve Kral <bvstablemail@...> wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    > > From: Steve Kral <bvstablemail@...>
                                                    >
                                                    > > Subject: Re: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds
                                                    >
                                                    > > To: hr100@yahoogroups.com
                                                    >
                                                    > > Date: Friday, October 22, 2010, 12:43 PM
                                                    >
                                                    > > I wholly agree Chris, 'controversial
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                                                    > > to say the least' is an understatement. Still, abolishing
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                                                    > > slavery and giving the women the right to vote were all
                                                    >
                                                    > > controversial ideas in their day...one even started a
                                                    >
                                                    > > war...but somehow progress seems to stem from progressive
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                                                    > > ideas.
                                                    >
                                                    > >
                                                    >
                                                    > > --- On Thu, 10/21/10, Chris Twiggs <Twiggsc@...>
                                                    >
                                                    > > wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    > >
                                                    >
                                                    > > From: Chris Twiggs <Twiggsc@...>
                                                    >
                                                    > > Subject: Re: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds
                                                    >
                                                    > > To: "hr100@yahoogroups.com"
                                                    >
                                                    > > <hr100@yahoogroups.com>
                                                    >
                                                    > > Date: Thursday, October 21, 2010, 8:43 PM
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                                                    > > As I understand it now, dnf's get no
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                                                    > > extra tickets compared to wait listers who get one. Further
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                                                    > > penalizing dnf'ers would be a controversial board decision
                                                    >
                                                    > > to say the least. We all start HR100 with the intention of
                                                    >
                                                    > > finishing, which I don't believe is the case in some other
                                                    >
                                                    > > ultras. I choose not to second-guess anyone who decides to
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                                                    > > drop, and I certainly would not wish to take away tickets
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                                                    > > they had earned through other finishes or other wait list
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                                                    > > experiences.
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                                                    > > (Autofill wanted wait listers to be wait lusters, which I
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                                                    > > now propose become their official designation.)
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                                                    > > Chris from flat Florida
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                                                    > > Sent from my iPhone
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                                                    >
                                                    > > On Oct 21, 2010, at 8:34 PM, Steve Kral <bvstablemail@...>
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                                                    > > wrote:
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                                                    > > > They be better if people who DNFed any time in the
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                                                    > > past 3 years had one ticket taken away for each such
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                                                    > > occurrence....
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                                                    > >
                                                    >
                                                    > > > stevekral
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                                                    > >
                                                    >
                                                    > > > --- On Thu, 10/21/10, David Clark <irishsailsman@...>
                                                    >
                                                    > > wrote:
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                                                    > > >
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                                                    > >
                                                    >
                                                    > > > From: David Clark <irishsailsman@...>
                                                    >
                                                    > >
                                                    >
                                                    > > > Subject: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds
                                                    >
                                                    > >
                                                    >
                                                    > > > To: hr100@yahoogroups.com
                                                    >
                                                    > >
                                                    >
                                                    > > > Date: Thursday, October 21, 2010, 6:03 PM
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                                                    > > > Does anyone have any information on when we will be
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                                                    > > able to submit an application for lottery?
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                                                    > > > Also- historically, what are the odds of actually
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                                                    > > getting in?
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                                                    > > > Thanks.
                                                    >
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                                                    > > > David Clark
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                                                    > > > Max Muscle Sports Nutrition
                                                    >
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                                                    > > > Longmont
                                                    >
                                                    > >
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                                                    > > > (C) 720-275-2197
                                                    >
                                                    > >
                                                    >
                                                    > > >
                                                    >
                                                    > >
                                                    >
                                                    > > > -Outreach Manager
                                                    >
                                                    > >
                                                    >
                                                    > > >
                                                    >
                                                    > >
                                                    >
                                                    > > > -NESTA Certified Sports Nutrition Coach
                                                    >
                                                    > >
                                                    >
                                                    > > >
                                                    >
                                                    > >
                                                    >
                                                    > > > -RRCA Certified Running Coach
                                                    >
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                                                    > > > - Sent from my iPhone
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