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Registration and Lottery Odds

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  • David Clark
    Does anyone have any information on when we will be able to submit an application for lottery? Also- historically, what are the odds of actually getting in?
    Message 1 of 25 , Oct 21, 2010
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      Does anyone have any information on when we will be able to submit an application for lottery?

      Also- historically, what are the odds of actually getting in?

      Thanks.



      David Clark
      Max Muscle Sports Nutrition
      Longmont
      (C) 720-275-2197

      -Outreach Manager
      -NESTA Certified Sports Nutrition Coach
      -RRCA Certified Running Coach



      - Sent from my iPhone

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • David Clark
      Clarification: I know on the website is says late October or early November for registration I was looking for a bit of inside info... ; ) And really would
      Message 2 of 25 , Oct 21, 2010
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        Clarification:


        I know on the website is says "late October or early November" for registration

        I was looking for a bit of "inside" info... ; )

        And really would like to hear from people on historical chances of getting in.
        Do many people on wait list get in?

        If so, is it common? Is it like Badwater, where it's almost hopeless?


        David Clark
        Max Muscle Sports Nutrition
        Longmont
        (C) 720-275-2197

        -Outreach Manager
        -NESTA Certified Sports Nutrition Coach
        -RRCA Certified Running Coach



        - Sent from my iPhone

        On Oct 21, 2010, at 4:12 PM, Shad Mika <shadmika@...> wrote:

        > It is all on the website dude.
        >
        > Shad
        >
        > On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 4:03 PM, David Clark <irishsailsman@...> wrote:
        >
        > Does anyone have any information on when we will be able to submit an application for lottery?
        >
        > Also- historically, what are the odds of actually getting in?
        >
        > Thanks.
        >
        > David Clark
        > Max Muscle Sports Nutrition
        > Longmont
        > (C) 720-275-2197
        >
        > -Outreach Manager
        > -NESTA Certified Sports Nutrition Coach
        > -RRCA Certified Running Coach
        >
        > - Sent from my iPhone
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > --
        > Shad
        >
        > "To give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift." -Steve Prefontaine
        >
        > www.shadmika.blogspot.com
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Deb's Gmail
        Hi Dave... It s a lottery.. so there is always a chance. Numbers up to about 20 on the wait list typically have a pretty good chance of getting in, though it
        Message 3 of 25 , Oct 21, 2010
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          Hi Dave...

          It's a lottery.. so there is always a chance. Numbers up to about 20 on
          the wait list typically have a pretty good chance of
          getting in, though it might be at the last minute ( I could tell you a
          story about THAT!), so you would want to actually be in town
          ready to go just in case.

          As far as registration, entries are collected until the Board meets in
          January, when the lottery takes place, so there is no rush to get it in
          on the first day. As long as they get your entry
          by the specified date before the Board meeting, then that's all that
          matters.
          good luck,
          Deb


          On 10/21/2010 4:24 PM, David Clark wrote:
          >
          > Clarification:
          >
          > I know on the website is says "late October or early November" for
          > registration
          >
          > I was looking for a bit of "inside" info... ; )
          >
          > And really would like to hear from people on historical chances of
          > getting in.
          > Do many people on wait list get in?
          >
          > If so, is it common? Is it like Badwater, where it's almost hopeless?
          >
          > David Clark
          > Max Muscle Sports Nutrition
          > Longmont
          > (C) 720-275-2197
          >
          > -Outreach Manager
          > -NESTA Certified Sports Nutrition Coach
          > -RRCA Certified Running Coach
          >
          > - Sent from my iPhone
          >
          > On Oct 21, 2010, at 4:12 PM, Shad Mika <shadmika@...
          > <mailto:shadmika%40gmail.com>> wrote:
          >
          > > It is all on the website dude.
          > >
          > > Shad
          > >
          > > On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 4:03 PM, David Clark
          > <irishsailsman@... <mailto:irishsailsman%40comcast.net>> wrote:
          > >
          > > Does anyone have any information on when we will be able to submit
          > an application for lottery?
          > >
          > > Also- historically, what are the odds of actually getting in?
          > >
          > > Thanks.
          > >
          > > David Clark
          > > Max Muscle Sports Nutrition
          > > Longmont
          > > (C) 720-275-2197
          > >
          > > -Outreach Manager
          > > -NESTA Certified Sports Nutrition Coach
          > > -RRCA Certified Running Coach
          > >
          > > - Sent from my iPhone
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > --
          > > Shad
          > >
          > > "To give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift."
          > -Steve Prefontaine
          > >
          > > www.shadmika.blogspot.com
          > >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Deb's Gmail
          oops,I mean February... not January.. Hi Dave... It s a lottery.. so there is always a chance. Numbers up to about 20 on the wait list typically have a pretty
          Message 4 of 25 , Oct 21, 2010
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            oops,I mean February... not January..















            Hi Dave...

            It's a lottery.. so there is always a chance. Numbers up to about 20 on
            the wait list typically have a pretty good chance of
            getting in, though it might be at the last minute ( I could tell you a
            story about THAT!), so you would want to actually be in town
            ready to go just in case.

            As far as registration, entries are collected until the Board meets in
            January, when the lottery takes place, so there is no rush to get it in
            on the first day. As long as they get your entry
            by the specified date before the Board meeting, then that's all that
            matters.
            good luck,
            Deb


            On 10/21/2010 4:24 PM, David Clark wrote:
            >
            > Clarification:
            >
            > I know on the website is says "late October or early November" for
            > registration
            >
            > I was looking for a bit of "inside" info... ; )
            >
            > And really would like to hear from people on historical chances of
            > getting in.
            > Do many people on wait list get in?
            >
            > If so, is it common? Is it like Badwater, where it's almost hopeless?
            >
            > David Clark
            > Max Muscle Sports Nutrition
            > Longmont
            > (C) 720-275-2197
            >
            > -Outreach Manager
            > -NESTA Certified Sports Nutrition Coach
            > -RRCA Certified Running Coach
            >
            > - Sent from my iPhone
            >
            > On Oct 21, 2010, at 4:12 PM, Shad Mika <shadmika@...
            > <mailto:shadmika%40gmail.com>> wrote:
            >
            > > It is all on the website dude.
            > >
            > > Shad
            > >
            > > On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 4:03 PM, David Clark
            > <irishsailsman@... <mailto:irishsailsman%40comcast.net>> wrote:
            > >
            > > Does anyone have any information on when we will be able to submit
            > an application for lottery?
            > >
            > > Also- historically, what are the odds of actually getting in?
            > >
            > > Thanks.
            > >
            > > David Clark
            > > Max Muscle Sports Nutrition
            > > Longmont
            > > (C) 720-275-2197
            > >
            > > -Outreach Manager
            > > -NESTA Certified Sports Nutrition Coach
            > > -RRCA Certified Running Coach
            > >
            > > - Sent from my iPhone
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > --
            > > Shad
            > >
            > > "To give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift."
            > -Steve Prefontaine
            > >
            > > www.shadmika.blogspot.com
            > >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Bruce Grant
            If you re looking for rough numbers, here s the odds from 2006 (hey, you said historical :-) # tickets chance 1 20.0% 2 36.0% 3 48.8% 4
            Message 5 of 25 , Oct 21, 2010
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              If you're looking for rough numbers, here's the odds from 2006 (hey, you
              said "historical" :-)

              # tickets chance
              1 20.0%
              2 36.0%
              3 48.8%
              4 59.0%
              5 67.2%
              6 73.8%
              7 79.0%
              8 83.1%

              Odds for any year depend on how many entries are received, and how many
              previous finishers try to enter (they get more tickets in the pot).
              The trend is that the odds are lowering all the time - I recall the 1-ticket
              chance being around 15% more recently - so you have to adjust all the above
              numbers down a fair bit

              Ultimately, the odds do nothing but add anxiety, so why sweat it? Just don't
              be late with your entry, and like everyone else, find out if you're in when
              the draw happens around the beginning of February.

              Waitlist...like Deb says, the first 20 will pretty much get in, but it may
              stray towards the upper 20's towards the end. And yes, if you're really
              keen, be there in Silverton ready to race because weird things can happen.
              At least if you are there, you can do trail work to improve your odds for
              next year.

              Badwater has a distinctly different entry methodology, so I wouldn't even
              start to compare the two races. Actually, that goes for the entire event as
              well....

              Bruce


              On 21 October 2010 15:44, Deb's Gmail <mtnrunner02@...> wrote:

              >
              >
              > Hi Dave...
              >
              > It's a lottery.. so there is always a chance. Numbers up to about 20 on
              > the wait list typically have a pretty good chance of
              > getting in, though it might be at the last minute ( I could tell you a
              > story about THAT!), so you would want to actually be in town
              > ready to go just in case.
              >
              > As far as registration, entries are collected until the Board meets in
              > January, when the lottery takes place, so there is no rush to get it in
              > on the first day. As long as they get your entry
              > by the specified date before the Board meeting, then that's all that
              > matters.
              > good luck,
              > Deb
              >
              > On 10/21/2010 4:24 PM, David Clark wrote:
              > >
              > > Clarification:
              > >
              > > I know on the website is says "late October or early November" for
              > > registration
              > >
              > > I was looking for a bit of "inside" info... ; )
              > >
              > > And really would like to hear from people on historical chances of
              > > getting in.
              > > Do many people on wait list get in?
              > >
              > > If so, is it common? Is it like Badwater, where it's almost hopeless?
              > >
              > > David Clark
              > > Max Muscle Sports Nutrition
              > > Longmont
              > > (C) 720-275-2197
              > >
              > > -Outreach Manager
              > > -NESTA Certified Sports Nutrition Coach
              > > -RRCA Certified Running Coach
              > >
              > > - Sent from my iPhone
              > >
              > > On Oct 21, 2010, at 4:12 PM, Shad Mika <shadmika@...<shadmika%40gmail.com>
              > > <mailto:shadmika%40gmail.com <shadmika%2540gmail.com>>> wrote:
              > >
              > > > It is all on the website dude.
              > > >
              > > > Shad
              > > >
              > > > On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 4:03 PM, David Clark
              > > <irishsailsman@... <irishsailsman%40comcast.net> <mailto:
              > irishsailsman%40comcast.net <irishsailsman%2540comcast.net>>> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Does anyone have any information on when we will be able to submit
              > > an application for lottery?
              > > >
              > > > Also- historically, what are the odds of actually getting in?
              > > >
              > > > Thanks.
              > > >
              > > > David Clark
              > > > Max Muscle Sports Nutrition
              > > > Longmont
              > > > (C) 720-275-2197
              > > >
              > > > -Outreach Manager
              > > > -NESTA Certified Sports Nutrition Coach
              > > > -RRCA Certified Running Coach
              > > >
              > > > - Sent from my iPhone
              > > >
              > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > --
              > > > Shad
              > > >
              > > > "To give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift."
              > > -Steve Prefontaine
              > > >
              > > > www.shadmika.blogspot.com
              > > >
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              > >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Chris Twiggs
              It s not almost hopeless. Blake Woods usually sends out an email outlining the previous year s chances and his best guess for the upcoming year, but naturally
              Message 6 of 25 , Oct 21, 2010
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                It's not almost hopeless. Blake Woods usually sends out an email outlining the previous year's chances and his best guess for the upcoming year, but naturally no one knows until all the applications are in.

                Sent from my iPhone

                On Oct 21, 2010, at 6:24 PM, David Clark <irishsailsman@...> wrote:

                > Clarification:
                >
                > I know on the website is says "late October or early November" for registration
                >
                > I was looking for a bit of "inside" info... ; )
                >
                > And really would like to hear from people on historical chances of getting in.
                > Do many people on wait list get in?
                >
                > If so, is it common? Is it like Badwater, where it's almost hopeless?
                >
                > David Clark
                > Max Muscle Sports Nutrition
                > Longmont
                > (C) 720-275-2197
                >
                > -Outreach Manager
                > -NESTA Certified Sports Nutrition Coach
                > -RRCA Certified Running Coach
                >
                > - Sent from my iPhone
                >
                > On Oct 21, 2010, at 4:12 PM, Shad Mika <shadmika@...> wrote:
                >
                > > It is all on the website dude.
                > >
                > > Shad
                > >
                > > On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 4:03 PM, David Clark <irishsailsman@...> wrote:
                > >
                > > Does anyone have any information on when we will be able to submit an application for lottery?
                > >
                > > Also- historically, what are the odds of actually getting in?
                > >
                > > Thanks.
                > >
                > > David Clark
                > > Max Muscle Sports Nutrition
                > > Longmont
                > > (C) 720-275-2197
                > >
                > > -Outreach Manager
                > > -NESTA Certified Sports Nutrition Coach
                > > -RRCA Certified Running Coach
                > >
                > > - Sent from my iPhone
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > --
                > > Shad
                > >
                > > "To give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift." -Steve Prefontaine
                > >
                > > www.shadmika.blogspot.com
                > >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Steve Kral
                They be better if people who DNFed any time in the past 3 years had one ticket taken away for each such occurrence.... stevekral ... From: David Clark
                Message 7 of 25 , Oct 21, 2010
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                  They be better if people who DNFed any time in the past 3 years had one ticket taken away for each such occurrence....
                  stevekral
                  --- On Thu, 10/21/10, David Clark <irishsailsman@...> wrote:

                  From: David Clark <irishsailsman@...>
                  Subject: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds
                  To: hr100@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Thursday, October 21, 2010, 6:03 PM
















                   









                  Does anyone have any information on when we will be able to submit an application for lottery?



                  Also- historically, what are the odds of actually getting in?



                  Thanks.



                  David Clark

                  Max Muscle Sports Nutrition

                  Longmont

                  (C) 720-275-2197



                  -Outreach Manager

                  -NESTA Certified Sports Nutrition Coach

                  -RRCA Certified Running Coach



                  - Sent from my iPhone



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






























                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Chris Twiggs
                  As I understand it now, dnf s get no extra tickets compared to wait listers who get one. Further penalizing dnf ers would be a controversial board decision to
                  Message 8 of 25 , Oct 21, 2010
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                    As I understand it now, dnf's get no extra tickets compared to wait listers who get one. Further penalizing dnf'ers would be a controversial board decision to say the least. We all start HR100 with the intention of finishing, which I don't believe is the case in some other ultras. I choose not to second-guess anyone who decides to drop, and I certainly would not wish to take away tickets they had earned through other finishes or other wait list experiences.

                    (Autofill wanted wait listers to be wait lusters, which I now propose become their official designation.)

                    Chris from flat Florida

                    Sent from my iPhone

                    On Oct 21, 2010, at 8:34 PM, Steve Kral <bvstablemail@...> wrote:

                    > They be better if people who DNFed any time in the past 3 years had one ticket taken away for each such occurrence....
                    > stevekral
                    > --- On Thu, 10/21/10, David Clark <irishsailsman@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > From: David Clark <irishsailsman@...>
                    > Subject: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds
                    > To: hr100@yahoogroups.com
                    > Date: Thursday, October 21, 2010, 6:03 PM
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Does anyone have any information on when we will be able to submit an application for lottery?
                    >
                    > Also- historically, what are the odds of actually getting in?
                    >
                    > Thanks.
                    >
                    > David Clark
                    >
                    > Max Muscle Sports Nutrition
                    >
                    > Longmont
                    >
                    > (C) 720-275-2197
                    >
                    > -Outreach Manager
                    >
                    > -NESTA Certified Sports Nutrition Coach
                    >
                    > -RRCA Certified Running Coach
                    >
                    > - Sent from my iPhone
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • james varner
                    i like that idea steve(even though that would cost me a ticket) and how about requiring volunteering at a hardrock aid station or pacing(50miles) at hardrock
                    Message 9 of 25 , Oct 21, 2010
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                      i like that idea steve(even though that would cost me a ticket) and how about
                      requiring volunteering at a hardrock aid station or pacing(50miles) at hardrock
                      atleast once in the past 5 years to get in the lottery-- this would help to
                      eliminate those who aren't truly committed and would better prepare the possible
                      entrants for the unique challenges of the race resulting in a higher finisher
                      rate.

                      james varnerRainshadow Running
                      www.rainshadowrunning.com




                      ________________________________
                      From: Steve Kral <bvstablemail@...>
                      To: hr100@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Thu, October 21, 2010 5:34:11 PM
                      Subject: Re: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds


                      They be better if people who DNFed any time in the past 3 years had one ticket
                      taken away for each such occurrence....
                      stevekral
                      --- On Thu, 10/21/10, David Clark <irishsailsman@...> wrote:

                      From: David Clark <irishsailsman@...>
                      Subject: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds
                      To: hr100@yahoogroups.com
                      Date: Thursday, October 21, 2010, 6:03 PM



                      Does anyone have any information on when we will be able to submit an
                      application for lottery?

                      Also- historically, what are the odds of actually getting in?

                      Thanks.

                      David Clark

                      Max Muscle Sports Nutrition

                      Longmont

                      (C) 720-275-2197

                      -Outreach Manager

                      -NESTA Certified Sports Nutrition Coach

                      -RRCA Certified Running Coach

                      - Sent from my iPhone

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Deb P
                      that s one of the best spell check recommendations I ve seen in quite awhile. I agree.. wait lusters! ha!! ... [Non-text portions of this message have been
                      Message 10 of 25 , Oct 21, 2010
                      • 0 Attachment
                        that's one of the best spell check recommendations I've seen in quite
                        awhile. I agree..
                        wait lusters! ha!!

                        On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 8:43 PM, Chris Twiggs <Twiggsc@...> wrote:

                        >
                        >
                        > As I understand it now, dnf's get no extra tickets compared to wait listers
                        > who get one. Further penalizing dnf'ers would be a controversial board
                        > decision to say the least. We all start HR100 with the intention of
                        > finishing, which I don't believe is the case in some other ultras. I choose
                        > not to second-guess anyone who decides to drop, and I certainly would not
                        > wish to take away tickets they had earned through other finishes or other
                        > wait list experiences.
                        >
                        > (Autofill wanted wait listers to be wait lusters, which I now propose
                        > become their official designation.)
                        >
                        > Chris from flat Florida
                        >
                        > Sent from my iPhone
                        >
                        >
                        > On Oct 21, 2010, at 8:34 PM, Steve Kral <bvstablemail@...<bvstablemail%40yahoo.com>>
                        > wrote:
                        >
                        > > They be better if people who DNFed any time in the past 3 years had one
                        > ticket taken away for each such occurrence....
                        > > stevekral
                        > > --- On Thu, 10/21/10, David Clark <irishsailsman@...<irishsailsman%40comcast.net>>
                        > wrote:
                        > >
                        > > From: David Clark <irishsailsman@...<irishsailsman%40comcast.net>
                        > >
                        > > Subject: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds
                        > > To: hr100@yahoogroups.com <hr100%40yahoogroups.com>
                        > > Date: Thursday, October 21, 2010, 6:03 PM
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Does anyone have any information on when we will be able to submit an
                        > application for lottery?
                        > >
                        > > Also- historically, what are the odds of actually getting in?
                        > >
                        > > Thanks.
                        > >
                        > > David Clark
                        > >
                        > > Max Muscle Sports Nutrition
                        > >
                        > > Longmont
                        > >
                        > > (C) 720-275-2197
                        > >
                        > > -Outreach Manager
                        > >
                        > > -NESTA Certified Sports Nutrition Coach
                        > >
                        > > -RRCA Certified Running Coach
                        > >
                        > > - Sent from my iPhone
                        > >
                        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > >
                        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        >
                        >


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Steve Kral
                        Chris, I m not sure who makes up your we all group, but I once heard a Hardrock runner first hand discuss starting with no intent to finish. Had something to
                        Message 11 of 25 , Oct 21, 2010
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                          Chris,
                          I'm not sure who makes up your 'we all' group, but I once heard a Hardrock runner first hand discuss starting with no intent to finish. Had something to do with being old and not caring how many years younger runners with more opportunities had to wait.
                          James,
                          Nice idea also, but would be quite beyond one's control if he/she came to Hardrock to pace 50 miles and the runner dropped. Still, in any given year, quite a few runners are out there without pacers...maybe they don't want one!steve

                          --- On Thu, 10/21/10, Deb P <mtnrunner02@...> wrote:

                          From: Deb P <mtnrunner02@...>
                          Subject: Re: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds
                          To: hr100@yahoogroups.com
                          Date: Thursday, October 21, 2010, 8:46 PM

                          that's one of the best spell check recommendations I've seen in quite
                          awhile. I agree..
                          wait lusters! ha!!

                          On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 8:43 PM, Chris Twiggs <Twiggsc@...> wrote:

                          >
                          >
                          > As I understand it now, dnf's get no extra tickets compared to wait listers
                          > who get one. Further penalizing dnf'ers would be a controversial board
                          > decision to say the least. We all start HR100 with the intention of
                          > finishing, which I don't believe is the case in some other ultras. I choose
                          > not to second-guess anyone who decides to drop, and I certainly would not
                          > wish to take away tickets they had earned through other finishes or other
                          > wait list experiences.
                          >
                          > (Autofill wanted wait listers to be wait lusters, which I now propose
                          > become their official designation.)
                          >
                          > Chris from flat Florida
                          >
                          > Sent from my iPhone
                          >
                          >
                          > On Oct 21, 2010, at 8:34 PM, Steve Kral <bvstablemail@...<bvstablemail%40yahoo.com>>
                          > wrote:
                          >
                          > > They be better if people who DNFed any time in the past 3 years had one
                          > ticket taken away for each such occurrence....
                          > > stevekral
                          > > --- On Thu, 10/21/10, David Clark <irishsailsman@...<irishsailsman%40comcast.net>>
                          > wrote:
                          > >
                          > > From: David Clark <irishsailsman@...<irishsailsman%40comcast.net>
                          > >
                          > > Subject: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds
                          > > To: hr100@yahoogroups.com <hr100%40yahoogroups.com>
                          > > Date: Thursday, October 21, 2010, 6:03 PM
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Does anyone have any information on when we will be able to submit an
                          > application for lottery?
                          > >
                          > > Also- historically, what are the odds of actually getting in?
                          > >
                          > > Thanks.
                          > >
                          > > David Clark
                          > >
                          > > Max Muscle Sports Nutrition
                          > >
                          > > Longmont
                          > >
                          > > (C) 720-275-2197
                          > >
                          > > -Outreach Manager
                          > >
                          > > -NESTA Certified Sports Nutrition Coach
                          > >
                          > > -RRCA Certified Running Coach
                          > >
                          > > - Sent from my iPhone
                          > >
                          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > >
                          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >

                          >


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                        • tedes12@comcast.net
                          Man after doing Hardrock one time I see what the fuss is all about!!! It is truly a one-of-a-kind ultra. I hope I make it in a second year. Have you ever
                          Message 12 of 25 , Oct 21, 2010
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                            Man after doing Hardrock one time I see what the fuss is all about!!! It is truly a one-of-a-kind ultra. I hope I make it in a second year.

                            Have you ever heard of anyone running both Hardrock and Badwater in the same year. If so did they finish either or both?
                            Terry Sentinella
                            Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: Deb P <mtnrunner02@...>
                            Sender: hr100@yahoogroups.com
                            Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 20:46:24
                            To: <hr100@yahoogroups.com>
                            Reply-To: hr100@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds

                            that's one of the best spell check recommendations I've seen in quite
                            awhile. I agree..
                            wait lusters! ha!!

                            On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 8:43 PM, Chris Twiggs <Twiggsc@...> wrote:

                            >
                            >
                            > As I understand it now, dnf's get no extra tickets compared to wait listers
                            > who get one. Further penalizing dnf'ers would be a controversial board
                            > decision to say the least. We all start HR100 with the intention of
                            > finishing, which I don't believe is the case in some other ultras. I choose
                            > not to second-guess anyone who decides to drop, and I certainly would not
                            > wish to take away tickets they had earned through other finishes or other
                            > wait list experiences.
                            >
                            > (Autofill wanted wait listers to be wait lusters, which I now propose
                            > become their official designation.)
                            >
                            > Chris from flat Florida
                            >
                            > Sent from my iPhone
                            >
                            >
                            > On Oct 21, 2010, at 8:34 PM, Steve Kral <bvstablemail@...<bvstablemail%40yahoo.com>>
                            > wrote:
                            >
                            > > They be better if people who DNFed any time in the past 3 years had one
                            > ticket taken away for each such occurrence....
                            > > stevekral
                            > > --- On Thu, 10/21/10, David Clark <irishsailsman@...<irishsailsman%40comcast.net>>
                            > wrote:
                            > >
                            > > From: David Clark <irishsailsman@...<irishsailsman%40comcast.net>
                            > >
                            > > Subject: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds
                            > > To: hr100@yahoogroups.com <hr100%40yahoogroups.com>
                            > > Date: Thursday, October 21, 2010, 6:03 PM
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Does anyone have any information on when we will be able to submit an
                            > application for lottery?
                            > >
                            > > Also- historically, what are the odds of actually getting in?
                            > >
                            > > Thanks.
                            > >
                            > > David Clark
                            > >
                            > > Max Muscle Sports Nutrition
                            > >
                            > > Longmont
                            > >
                            > > (C) 720-275-2197
                            > >
                            > > -Outreach Manager
                            > >
                            > > -NESTA Certified Sports Nutrition Coach
                            > >
                            > > -RRCA Certified Running Coach
                            > >
                            > > - Sent from my iPhone
                            > >
                            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > >
                            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > >
                            > >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                            >
                            >


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                          • Chris Twiggs
                            I am very surprised to hear that, Steve. I have never heard such a comment from any hardrocker. The oldest of them all, John DeWalt, chose not to come this
                            Message 13 of 25 , Oct 21, 2010
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                              I am very surprised to hear that, Steve. I have never heard such a comment from any hardrocker. The oldest of them all, John DeWalt, chose not to come this year because he was sick and knew he'd likely not finish. Please don't reveal the name of the SOB you overheard. I hold all who have started HR in high esteem whether they finished or not, and I want nothing to tarnish that.

                              Chris

                              Sent from my iPhone

                              On Oct 21, 2010, at 10:12 PM, Steve Kral <bvstablemail@...> wrote:

                              > Chris,
                              > I'm not sure who makes up your 'we all' group, but I once heard a Hardrock runner first hand discuss starting with no intent to finish. Had something to do with being old and not caring how many years younger runners with more opportunities had to wait.
                              > James,
                              > Nice idea also, but would be quite beyond one's control if he/she came to Hardrock to pace 50 miles and the runner dropped. Still, in any given year, quite a few runners are out there without pacers...maybe they don't want one!steve
                              >
                              > --- On Thu, 10/21/10, Deb P <mtnrunner02@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > From: Deb P <mtnrunner02@...>
                              > Subject: Re: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds
                              > To: hr100@yahoogroups.com
                              > Date: Thursday, October 21, 2010, 8:46 PM
                              >
                              > that's one of the best spell check recommendations I've seen in quite
                              > awhile. I agree..
                              > wait lusters! ha!!
                              >
                              > On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 8:43 PM, Chris Twiggs <Twiggsc@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > As I understand it now, dnf's get no extra tickets compared to wait listers
                              > > who get one. Further penalizing dnf'ers would be a controversial board
                              > > decision to say the least. We all start HR100 with the intention of
                              > > finishing, which I don't believe is the case in some other ultras. I choose
                              > > not to second-guess anyone who decides to drop, and I certainly would not
                              > > wish to take away tickets they had earned through other finishes or other
                              > > wait list experiences.
                              > >
                              > > (Autofill wanted wait listers to be wait lusters, which I now propose
                              > > become their official designation.)
                              > >
                              > > Chris from flat Florida
                              > >
                              > > Sent from my iPhone
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > On Oct 21, 2010, at 8:34 PM, Steve Kral <bvstablemail@...<bvstablemail%40yahoo.com>>
                              > > wrote:
                              > >
                              > > > They be better if people who DNFed any time in the past 3 years had one
                              > > ticket taken away for each such occurrence....
                              > > > stevekral
                              > > > --- On Thu, 10/21/10, David Clark <irishsailsman@...<irishsailsman%40comcast.net>>
                              > > wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > From: David Clark <irishsailsman@...<irishsailsman%40comcast.net>
                              > > >
                              > > > Subject: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds
                              > > > To: hr100@yahoogroups.com <hr100%40yahoogroups.com>
                              > > > Date: Thursday, October 21, 2010, 6:03 PM
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > Does anyone have any information on when we will be able to submit an
                              > > application for lottery?
                              > > >
                              > > > Also- historically, what are the odds of actually getting in?
                              > > >
                              > > > Thanks.
                              > > >
                              > > > David Clark
                              > > >
                              > > > Max Muscle Sports Nutrition
                              > > >
                              > > > Longmont
                              > > >
                              > > > (C) 720-275-2197
                              > > >
                              > > > -Outreach Manager
                              > > >
                              > > > -NESTA Certified Sports Nutrition Coach
                              > > >
                              > > > -RRCA Certified Running Coach
                              > > >
                              > > > - Sent from my iPhone
                              > > >
                              > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > > >
                              > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > >
                              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              > ------------------------------------
                              >
                              > To Post a message, send it to: hr100@...
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                            • Chris Twiggs
                              Joe Prusaitis did it. Sent from my iPhone ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              Message 14 of 25 , Oct 21, 2010
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Joe Prusaitis did it.

                                Sent from my iPhone

                                On Oct 21, 2010, at 10:13 PM, tedes12@... wrote:

                                > Man after doing Hardrock one time I see what the fuss is all about!!! It is truly a one-of-a-kind ultra. I hope I make it in a second year.
                                >
                                > Have you ever heard of anyone running both Hardrock and Badwater in the same year. If so did they finish either or both?
                                > Terry Sentinella
                                > Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
                                >
                                > -----Original Message-----
                                > From: Deb P <mtnrunner02@...>
                                > Sender: hr100@yahoogroups.com
                                > Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 20:46:24
                                > To: <hr100@yahoogroups.com>
                                > Reply-To: hr100@yahoogroups.com
                                > Subject: Re: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds
                                >
                                > that's one of the best spell check recommendations I've seen in quite
                                > awhile. I agree..
                                > wait lusters! ha!!
                                >
                                > On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 8:43 PM, Chris Twiggs <Twiggsc@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > As I understand it now, dnf's get no extra tickets compared to wait listers
                                > > who get one. Further penalizing dnf'ers would be a controversial board
                                > > decision to say the least. We all start HR100 with the intention of
                                > > finishing, which I don't believe is the case in some other ultras. I choose
                                > > not to second-guess anyone who decides to drop, and I certainly would not
                                > > wish to take away tickets they had earned through other finishes or other
                                > > wait list experiences.
                                > >
                                > > (Autofill wanted wait listers to be wait lusters, which I now propose
                                > > become their official designation.)
                                > >
                                > > Chris from flat Florida
                                > >
                                > > Sent from my iPhone
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > On Oct 21, 2010, at 8:34 PM, Steve Kral <bvstablemail@...<bvstablemail%40yahoo.com>>
                                > > wrote:
                                > >
                                > > > They be better if people who DNFed any time in the past 3 years had one
                                > > ticket taken away for each such occurrence....
                                > > > stevekral
                                > > > --- On Thu, 10/21/10, David Clark <irishsailsman@...<irishsailsman%40comcast.net>>
                                > > wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > > From: David Clark <irishsailsman@...<irishsailsman%40comcast.net>
                                > > >
                                > > > Subject: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds
                                > > > To: hr100@yahoogroups.com <hr100%40yahoogroups.com>
                                > > > Date: Thursday, October 21, 2010, 6:03 PM
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > Does anyone have any information on when we will be able to submit an
                                > > application for lottery?
                                > > >
                                > > > Also- historically, what are the odds of actually getting in?
                                > > >
                                > > > Thanks.
                                > > >
                                > > > David Clark
                                > > >
                                > > > Max Muscle Sports Nutrition
                                > > >
                                > > > Longmont
                                > > >
                                > > > (C) 720-275-2197
                                > > >
                                > > > -Outreach Manager
                                > > >
                                > > > -NESTA Certified Sports Nutrition Coach
                                > > >
                                > > > -RRCA Certified Running Coach
                                > > >
                                > > > - Sent from my iPhone
                                > > >
                                > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                > > >
                                > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > >
                                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                >
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > ------------------------------------
                                >
                                > To Post a message, send it to: hr100@...
                                >
                                > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: hr100-unsubscribe@...! Groups Links
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                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Chris Twiggs
                                I remember telling Joe that BW seemed like the exact opposite of what I love about HR. He said, It is. That s part of the challenge. . That was the moment I
                                Message 15 of 25 , Oct 21, 2010
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                                  I remember telling Joe that BW seemed like the exact opposite of what I love about HR. He said, "It is. That's part of the challenge.". That was the moment I started thinking about BW. However, I can't see giving up HR, so if I ever do it, it will have to be a double.

                                  Chris

                                  Sent from my iPhone

                                  On Oct 21, 2010, at 11:41 PM, Chris Twiggs <Twiggsc@...> wrote:

                                  > Joe Prusaitis did it.
                                  >
                                  > Sent from my iPhone
                                  >
                                  > On Oct 21, 2010, at 10:13 PM, tedes12@... wrote:
                                  >
                                  > > Man after doing Hardrock one time I see what the fuss is all about!!! It is truly a one-of-a-kind ultra. I hope I make it in a second year.
                                  > >
                                  > > Have you ever heard of anyone running both Hardrock and Badwater in the same year. If so did they finish either or both?
                                  > > Terry Sentinella
                                  > > Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
                                  > >
                                  > > -----Original Message-----
                                  > > From: Deb P <mtnrunner02@...>
                                  > > Sender: hr100@yahoogroups.com
                                  > > Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 20:46:24
                                  > > To: <hr100@yahoogroups.com>
                                  > > Reply-To: hr100@yahoogroups.com
                                  > > Subject: Re: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds
                                  > >
                                  > > that's one of the best spell check recommendations I've seen in quite
                                  > > awhile. I agree..
                                  > > wait lusters! ha!!
                                  > >
                                  > > On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 8:43 PM, Chris Twiggs <Twiggsc@...> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > As I understand it now, dnf's get no extra tickets compared to wait listers
                                  > > > who get one. Further penalizing dnf'ers would be a controversial board
                                  > > > decision to say the least. We all start HR100 with the intention of
                                  > > > finishing, which I don't believe is the case in some other ultras. I choose
                                  > > > not to second-guess anyone who decides to drop, and I certainly would not
                                  > > > wish to take away tickets they had earned through other finishes or other
                                  > > > wait list experiences.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > (Autofill wanted wait listers to be wait lusters, which I now propose
                                  > > > become their official designation.)
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Chris from flat Florida
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Sent from my iPhone
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > On Oct 21, 2010, at 8:34 PM, Steve Kral <bvstablemail@...<bvstablemail%40yahoo.com>>
                                  > > > wrote:
                                  > > >
                                  > > > > They be better if people who DNFed any time in the past 3 years had one
                                  > > > ticket taken away for each such occurrence....
                                  > > > > stevekral
                                  > > > > --- On Thu, 10/21/10, David Clark <irishsailsman@...<irishsailsman%40comcast.net>>
                                  > > > wrote:
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > From: David Clark <irishsailsman@...<irishsailsman%40comcast.net>
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Subject: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds
                                  > > > > To: hr100@yahoogroups.com <hr100%40yahoogroups.com>
                                  > > > > Date: Thursday, October 21, 2010, 6:03 PM
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Does anyone have any information on when we will be able to submit an
                                  > > > application for lottery?
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Also- historically, what are the odds of actually getting in?
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Thanks.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > David Clark
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Max Muscle Sports Nutrition
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Longmont
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > (C) 720-275-2197
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > -Outreach Manager
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > -NESTA Certified Sports Nutrition Coach
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > -RRCA Certified Running Coach
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > - Sent from my iPhone
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > ------------------------------------
                                  > >
                                  > > To Post a message, send it to: hr100@...
                                  > >
                                  > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: hr100-unsubscribe@...! Groups Links
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >
                                  >


                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Matt Mahoney
                                  ... atleast once in the past 5 years to get in the lottery Here is a better idea. How about not allowing pacers? That way the race could support more runners.
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Oct 22, 2010
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    james varner wrote:
                                    > i like that idea steve(even though that would cost me a ticket) and how
                                    >about requiring volunteering at a hardrock aid station or pacing(50miles) at
                                    >hardrock
                                    atleast once in the past 5 years to get in the lottery

                                    Here is a better idea. How about not allowing pacers? That way the race could
                                    support more runners. It also might cut down on the number of less qualified
                                    entries.

                                    Also, how about some extra allowance for the best runners so that a win or a
                                    course record actually means something? This is a race, after all, even if only
                                    the top runners treat it that way. Hardrock will never see a showdown between
                                    the likes of Krupicka, Matt Carpenter, and Killian Jornet because it is unlikely
                                    all of them could ever get in the lottery with just one ticket each. Make the
                                    standards clear, like a top 10 finish in a qualifying race in the last 2 years.
                                    As it is now, a Hardrock trophy just means you were lucky enough to get in and
                                    your faster competition was not. Who cares? If you are doing it just for the
                                    experience, then you can hike the course any time.

                                    Everyone else should go on a multi-year waiting list, starting with the wait
                                    list from this year. Enter any time, and your name goes on the end. If you can't
                                    make it during the year when your name comes up, then you go to the back of the
                                    line again.

                                    Steve Kral wrote:
                                    > They be better if people who DNFed any time in the past 3 years had one
                                    >ticket taken away for each such occurrence....

                                    Yeah, my 48:00:28 DNF in 2007 shows that I really suck at this. My fault for not
                                    using a crew, pacer, or drop bags.

                                    -- Matt Mahoney, matmahoney@...




                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Steve Pero
                                    It s my understanding that Hardrock never was or never will be considered a race . The idea is for people (I very very loosely call us runners) to enjoy the
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Oct 22, 2010
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                                      It's my understanding that Hardrock never was or never will be considered a
                                      "race". The idea is for people (I very very loosely call us runners) to
                                      enjoy the San Juans in an Endurance event. It is named the Hardrock Hundred
                                      Endurance Run.
                                      The 48 hour cutoff is to give the participants plenty of time to get it done
                                      and still be able to find cover in the event of a storm. Sure, the faster
                                      runners do "race" each other, but I enjoy seeing John Dewalt come across the
                                      line bent at the waist or Jennifer Roach last year kissing the rock with
                                      tears streaming down her face with only minutes to spare....that's what
                                      Hardrock is all about.
                                      I can't imagine anyone devoting the energy to enter the lottery and then
                                      train for Hardrock without planning on finishing...I would hope if someone
                                      was planning on not running the whole run, then they would step aside and
                                      give the next wait luster their spot and pace instead.

                                      Now that the racing season is about over, everyone must be getting anxious
                                      about the lottery already ;-) Good to see the activity...

                                      See you in June!
                                      Steve (2 finishes out of 7 attempts)


                                      On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 8:45 AM, Matt Mahoney <matmahoney@...> wrote:


                                      Also, how about some extra allowance for the best runners so that a win or a

                                      course record actually means something? This is a race, after all, even if
                                      only
                                      the top runners treat it that way. Hardrock will never see a showdown
                                      between
                                      the likes of Krupicka, Matt Carpenter, and Killian Jornet because it is
                                      unlikely
                                      all of them could ever get in the lottery with just one ticket each. Make
                                      the
                                      standards clear, like a top 10 finish in a qualifying race in the last 2
                                      years.
                                      As it is now, a Hardrock trophy just means you were lucky enough to get in
                                      and
                                      your faster competition was not. Who cares? If you are doing it just for the

                                      experience, then you can hike the course any time.


                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • Matt Mahoney
                                      ... Some people don t consider a 5K a race. They are perfectly happy to walk or jog it with a group of friends in 40 minutes and get a T-shirt and some food
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Oct 22, 2010
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                                        Steve Pero wrote:
                                        > It's my understanding that Hardrock never was or never will be considered
                                        >a "race".

                                        Some people don't consider a 5K a race. They are perfectly happy to walk or jog
                                        it with a group of friends in 40 minutes and get a T-shirt and some food
                                        afterward and not worry about the awards.

                                        Others look at Hardrock and see:
                                        - A start line
                                        - A finish line
                                        - A prescribed and marked course
                                        - A clock
                                        - An official says "go"
                                        - Finish results
                                        - Awards based on finish order
                                        which sure looks to me like a race. (The fact that a 40 minute 5K pace would set
                                        a course record is irrelevant).

                                        And if it's not a race, then why are there pacers? Some say it is a safety
                                        issue. Sorry, I have to call BS. In a typical big city marathon with 30,000
                                        runners, you can statistically expect one death. If all of those runners had
                                        pacers, then the runners might feel safer, but you would instead average two
                                        deaths. Elite runners use pacers because when you are chasing six figure prize
                                        money at 4:48/mile, wind resistance matters. I fail to see how it matters when
                                        you are crawling up Grant-Swamp pass. Any advantage will probably be offset by
                                        your pacer accidentally pushing rocks down on you. (Ask David Horton about his
                                        broken finger).

                                        IMHO pacing is just a way to run half the race for free, either because you
                                        didn't get in the lottery or because you weren't trained well enough to run the
                                        whole thing.

                                        -- Matt Mahoney, matmahoney@...




                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • Don
                                        I ve never liked the basic unfairness of the weighted lottery I don t think anyone should have preferential treatment,Don Platt Sent from my iPhone On Oct
                                        Message 19 of 25 , Oct 22, 2010
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          I've never liked the basic unfairness of the "weighted" lottery I don' t think anyone should have preferential treatment,Don Platt

                                          Sent from my iPhone

                                          On Oct 21, 2010, at 6:43 PM, Chris Twiggs <Twiggsc@...> wrote:

                                          We all start HR100 with the intention of finishing,= which I don't believe is the case in some other ultras. I choose not to se= cond-guess anyone who decides to drop, and I certainly would not wish to ta= ke away tickets they had earned through other finishes or other wait list e= xperiences.=20 (Autofill wanted wait listers to be wait lusters, which I now propose becom= e their official designation.) Chris from flat Florida Sent from my iPhone On Oct 21, 2010, at 8:34 PM, Steve Kral wrote: > They be better if people who DNFed any time in the past 3 years had one t= icket taken away for each such occurrence.... > stevekral > --- On Thu, 10/21/10, David Clark wrote: >=20 > From: David Clark > Subject: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds > To: hr100@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, October 21, 2010, 6:03 PM >=20 >=20=20 >=20 > Does anyone have any information on when we will be able to submit an app= lication for lottery? >=20 > Also- historically,
                                          what are the odds of actually getting in?=20 >=20 > Thanks. >=20 > David Clark >=20 > Max Muscle Sports Nutrition >=20 > Longmont >=20 > (C) 720-275-2197 >=20 > -Outreach Manager >=20 > -NESTA Certified Sports Nutrition Coach >=20 > -RRCA Certified Running Coach >=20 > - Sent from my iPhone >=20 > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >=20 > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >=20 >=20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] --lYd6vZmEvgw0fgrUKQjgghzBnPJSDRkF0BBv9SV Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
                                          As I understand it now, dnf's get no extra tickets compared to wait listers who get one. Further penalizing dnf'ers would be a controversial board decision to say the least. We all start HR100 with the intention of finishing, which I don't believe is the case in some other ultras. I choose not to second-guess anyone who decides to drop, and I certainly would not wish to take away tickets they had earned through other finishes or other wait list experiences.

                                          (Autofill wanted wait listers to be wait lusters, which I now propose become their official designation.)

                                          Chris from flat Florida

                                          Sent from my iPhone

                                          On Oct 21, 2010, at 8:34 PM, Steve Kral <bvstablemail@...> wrote:

                                          > They be better if people who DNFed any time in the past 3 years had one ticket taken away for each such occurrence....
                                          > stevekral
                                          > --- On Thu, 10/21/10, David Clark <irishsailsman@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > From: David Clark <irishsailsman@...>
                                          > Subject: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds
                                          > To: hr100@yahoogroups.com
                                          > Date: Thursday, October 21, 2010, 6:03 PM
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Does anyone have any information on when we will be able to submit an application for lottery?
                                          >
                                          > Also- historically, what are the odds of actually getting in?
                                          >
                                          > Thanks.
                                          >
                                          > David Clark
                                          >
                                          > Max Muscle Sports Nutrition
                                          >
                                          > Longmont
                                          >
                                          > (C) 720-275-2197
                                          >
                                          > -Outreach Manager
                                          >
                                          > -NESTA Certified Sports Nutrition Coach
                                          >
                                          > -RRCA Certified Running Coach
                                          >
                                          > - Sent from my iPhone
                                          >
                                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          >
                                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          >
                                          >

                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • azsmokin
                                          I ve finished Hardrock twice out of 3 attempts. My first try was a DNF in 05 and it could be said that my pacer, Tim Varner and Steve Patillo saved my life. I
                                          Message 20 of 25 , Oct 22, 2010
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            I've finished Hardrock twice out of 3 attempts. My first try was a DNF in
                                            '05 and it could be said that my pacer, Tim Varner and Steve Patillo saved
                                            my life.

                                            I was blindsided by a condition called Metabolic Acidosis as I was
                                            descending to Ouray from Engineers. I slowly lost all muscle control and
                                            eventually could not stand on my own. Not a good place on the course to be
                                            in such bad shape. I was like a falling down drunk but my head felt fine.
                                            Tim had to hold me up by my packstraps as we slowly made our way to the 550
                                            tunnel to wait on the ambulance that Steve, who had caught up to us, had ran
                                            ahead to call for. The emergency room Doc said I was very lucky as the
                                            condition could be fatal if left untreated. He didn't have to mention the
                                            sudden stop into Bear Creek had I fallen off the trail.

                                            Was I trained enough for the course? I thought so.

                                            Did I know what I was getting into? I thought so.

                                            My wife really likes for me to use pacers now. I used 3 the last time.
                                            Besides, I want them to see what I get to see.



                                            Bob Bachani

                                            Tucson, AZ

                                            _____

                                            From: hr100@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hr100@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Matt
                                            Mahoney
                                            Sent: Friday, October 22, 2010 7:08 AM
                                            To: hr100@yahoogroups.com
                                            Subject: Re: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds





                                            Steve Pero wrote:
                                            > It's my understanding that Hardrock never was or never will be considered
                                            >a "race".

                                            Some people don't consider a 5K a race. They are perfectly happy to walk or
                                            jog
                                            it with a group of friends in 40 minutes and get a T-shirt and some food
                                            afterward and not worry about the awards.

                                            Others look at Hardrock and see:
                                            - A start line
                                            - A finish line
                                            - A prescribed and marked course
                                            - A clock
                                            - An official says "go"
                                            - Finish results
                                            - Awards based on finish order
                                            which sure looks to me like a race. (The fact that a 40 minute 5K pace would
                                            set
                                            a course record is irrelevant).

                                            And if it's not a race, then why are there pacers? Some say it is a safety
                                            issue. Sorry, I have to call BS. In a typical big city marathon with 30,000
                                            runners, you can statistically expect one death. If all of those runners had

                                            pacers, then the runners might feel safer, but you would instead average two

                                            deaths. Elite runners use pacers because when you are chasing six figure
                                            prize
                                            money at 4:48/mile, wind resistance matters. I fail to see how it matters
                                            when
                                            you are crawling up Grant-Swamp pass. Any advantage will probably be offset
                                            by
                                            your pacer accidentally pushing rocks down on you. (Ask David Horton about
                                            his
                                            broken finger).

                                            IMHO pacing is just a way to run half the race for free, either because you
                                            didn't get in the lottery or because you weren't trained well enough to run
                                            the
                                            whole thing.

                                            -- Matt Mahoney, matmahoney@... <mailto:matmahoney%40yahoo.com>

                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • Twiggsc@aol.com
                                            Well put, Bob! I use pacers and treasure the time I spend with them. They are my good friends. Anyone who stands there offering encouragement while I puke is
                                            Message 21 of 25 , Oct 22, 2010
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              Well put, Bob!

                                              I use pacers and treasure the time I spend with them. They are my good friends. Anyone who stands there offering encouragement while I puke is more family than friend. However, I respect that my fellow Floridian, Matt, never uses them. I won't try to force a pacer on him, and I don't think he will try to take mine away.







                                              -----Original Message-----
                                              From: azsmokin <azsmokin@...>
                                              To: hr100@yahoogroups.com
                                              Sent: Fri, Oct 22, 2010 10:59 am
                                              Subject: RE: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds





                                              I've finished Hardrock twice out of 3 attempts. My first try was a DNF in
                                              '05 and it could be said that my pacer, Tim Varner and Steve Patillo saved
                                              my life.

                                              I was blindsided by a condition called Metabolic Acidosis as I was
                                              descending to Ouray from Engineers. I slowly lost all muscle control and
                                              eventually could not stand on my own. Not a good place on the course to be
                                              in such bad shape. I was like a falling down drunk but my head felt fine.
                                              Tim had to hold me up by my packstraps as we slowly made our way to the 550
                                              tunnel to wait on the ambulance that Steve, who had caught up to us, had ran
                                              ahead to call for. The emergency room Doc said I was very lucky as the
                                              condition could be fatal if left untreated. He didn't have to mention the
                                              sudden stop into Bear Creek had I fallen off the trail.

                                              Was I trained enough for the course? I thought so.

                                              Did I know what I was getting into? I thought so.

                                              My wife really likes for me to use pacers now. I used 3 the last time.
                                              Besides, I want them to see what I get to see.

                                              Bob Bachani

                                              Tucson, AZ

                                              _____

                                              From: hr100@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hr100@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Matt
                                              Mahoney
                                              Sent: Friday, October 22, 2010 7:08 AM
                                              To: hr100@yahoogroups.com
                                              Subject: Re: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds

                                              Steve Pero wrote:
                                              > It's my understanding that Hardrock never was or never will be considered
                                              >a "race".

                                              Some people don't consider a 5K a race. They are perfectly happy to walk or
                                              jog
                                              it with a group of friends in 40 minutes and get a T-shirt and some food
                                              afterward and not worry about the awards.

                                              Others look at Hardrock and see:
                                              - A start line
                                              - A finish line
                                              - A prescribed and marked course
                                              - A clock
                                              - An official says "go"
                                              - Finish results
                                              - Awards based on finish order
                                              which sure looks to me like a race. (The fact that a 40 minute 5K pace would
                                              set
                                              a course record is irrelevant).

                                              And if it's not a race, then why are there pacers? Some say it is a safety
                                              issue. Sorry, I have to call BS. In a typical big city marathon with 30,000
                                              runners, you can statistically expect one death. If all of those runners had

                                              pacers, then the runners might feel safer, but you would instead average two

                                              deaths. Elite runners use pacers because when you are chasing six figure
                                              prize
                                              money at 4:48/mile, wind resistance matters. I fail to see how it matters
                                              when
                                              you are crawling up Grant-Swamp pass. Any advantage will probably be offset
                                              by
                                              your pacer accidentally pushing rocks down on you. (Ask David Horton about
                                              his
                                              broken finger).

                                              IMHO pacing is just a way to run half the race for free, either because you
                                              didn't get in the lottery or because you weren't trained well enough to run
                                              the
                                              whole thing.

                                              -- Matt Mahoney, matmahoney@... <mailto:matmahoney%40yahoo.com>;

                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]









                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            • Steve Kral
                                              I wholly agree Chris, controversial to say the least is an understatement. Still, abolishing slavery and giving the women the right to vote were all
                                              Message 22 of 25 , Oct 22, 2010
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                I wholly agree Chris, 'controversial to say the least' is an understatement. Still, abolishing slavery and giving the women the right to vote were all controversial ideas in their day...one even started a war...but somehow progress seems to stem from progressive ideas.

                                                --- On Thu, 10/21/10, Chris Twiggs <Twiggsc@...> wrote:

                                                From: Chris Twiggs <Twiggsc@...>
                                                Subject: Re: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds
                                                To: "hr100@yahoogroups.com" <hr100@yahoogroups.com>
                                                Date: Thursday, October 21, 2010, 8:43 PM
















                                                 









                                                As I understand it now, dnf's get no extra tickets compared to wait listers who get one. Further penalizing dnf'ers would be a controversial board decision to say the least. We all start HR100 with the intention of finishing, which I don't believe is the case in some other ultras. I choose not to second-guess anyone who decides to drop, and I certainly would not wish to take away tickets they had earned through other finishes or other wait list experiences.



                                                (Autofill wanted wait listers to be wait lusters, which I now propose become their official designation.)



                                                Chris from flat Florida



                                                Sent from my iPhone



                                                On Oct 21, 2010, at 8:34 PM, Steve Kral <bvstablemail@...> wrote:



                                                > They be better if people who DNFed any time in the past 3 years had one ticket taken away for each such occurrence....

                                                > stevekral

                                                > --- On Thu, 10/21/10, David Clark <irishsailsman@...> wrote:

                                                >

                                                > From: David Clark <irishsailsman@...>

                                                > Subject: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds

                                                > To: hr100@yahoogroups.com

                                                > Date: Thursday, October 21, 2010, 6:03 PM

                                                >

                                                >

                                                >

                                                > Does anyone have any information on when we will be able to submit an application for lottery?

                                                >

                                                > Also- historically, what are the odds of actually getting in?

                                                >

                                                > Thanks.

                                                >

                                                > David Clark

                                                >

                                                > Max Muscle Sports Nutrition

                                                >

                                                > Longmont

                                                >

                                                > (C) 720-275-2197

                                                >

                                                > -Outreach Manager

                                                >

                                                > -NESTA Certified Sports Nutrition Coach

                                                >

                                                > -RRCA Certified Running Coach

                                                >

                                                > - Sent from my iPhone

                                                >

                                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                                >

                                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                                >

                                                >



                                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






























                                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              • Michael Bur
                                                Interesting. How are you defining progressive here and more to the point, what are the aspects of the current HR lottery system that you feel are not
                                                Message 23 of 25 , Oct 22, 2010
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  Interesting.

                                                  How are you defining "progressive" here and more to the point, what are the aspects of the current HR lottery system that you feel are not "progressive"? The DNFer is already effectively penalized WRT to a waitlister in that if they start and don't finish, they don't get the ticket; so the following year, the waitlister starts off in a better position when compared to the person who DNFed(all other things being equal).

                                                  As far as "progressive" goes, other than the MMT lottery(http://www.vhtrc.org/mmt/entry.htm), which by way of full disclosure, I helped design, I don't know of any other 100 entry that has put as much thought into their design in terms of consideration and balancing all of the various aspects, interests and stakeholders of the event. I know from experience that there are many, many aspects to consider when designing an entry system for an event that is oversubscribed. Some of them are in direct opposition to each other. It isn't easy trying to get them all to balance out in a "fair" way. It is also important to note here that what one may considered "fair" to them as an individual may not(and often is not!) the same as what the board/rd considers "fair" for the overall event.

                                                  In looking at what we(the VHTRC) did with MMT, I think there are other, far more "progressive" ideas that HR could incorporate to their lottery/entry before they resorted to taking away tickets from folks who DNFed.

                                                  Best,
                                                  Mike Bur(former VHTRC president, 4x Hardrocker)
                                                  Kensington, MD

                                                  --- On Fri, 10/22/10, Steve Kral <bvstablemail@...> wrote:

                                                  > From: Steve Kral <bvstablemail@...>
                                                  > Subject: Re: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds
                                                  > To: hr100@yahoogroups.com
                                                  > Date: Friday, October 22, 2010, 12:43 PM
                                                  > I wholly agree Chris, 'controversial
                                                  > to say the least' is an understatement. Still, abolishing
                                                  > slavery and giving the women the right to vote were all
                                                  > controversial ideas in their day...one even started a
                                                  > war...but somehow progress seems to stem from progressive
                                                  > ideas.
                                                  >
                                                  > --- On Thu, 10/21/10, Chris Twiggs <Twiggsc@...>
                                                  > wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > From: Chris Twiggs <Twiggsc@...>
                                                  > Subject: Re: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds
                                                  > To: "hr100@yahoogroups.com"
                                                  > <hr100@yahoogroups.com>
                                                  > Date: Thursday, October 21, 2010, 8:43 PM
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >  
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >  
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >    
                                                  >      
                                                  >      
                                                  >       As I understand it now, dnf's get no
                                                  > extra tickets compared to wait listers who get one. Further
                                                  > penalizing dnf'ers would be a controversial board decision
                                                  > to say the least. We all start HR100 with the intention of
                                                  > finishing, which I don't believe is the case in some other
                                                  > ultras. I choose not to second-guess anyone who decides to
                                                  > drop, and I certainly would not wish to take away tickets
                                                  > they had earned through other finishes or other wait list
                                                  > experiences.
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > (Autofill wanted wait listers to be wait lusters, which I
                                                  > now propose become their official designation.)
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > Chris from flat Florida
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > Sent from my iPhone
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > On Oct 21, 2010, at 8:34 PM, Steve Kral <bvstablemail@...>
                                                  > wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > > They be better if people who DNFed any time in the
                                                  > past 3 years had one ticket taken away for each such
                                                  > occurrence....
                                                  >
                                                  > > stevekral
                                                  >
                                                  > > --- On Thu, 10/21/10, David Clark <irishsailsman@...>
                                                  > wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > >
                                                  >
                                                  > > From: David Clark <irishsailsman@...>
                                                  >
                                                  > > Subject: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds
                                                  >
                                                  > > To: hr100@yahoogroups.com
                                                  >
                                                  > > Date: Thursday, October 21, 2010, 6:03 PM
                                                  >
                                                  > >
                                                  >
                                                  > > 
                                                  >
                                                  > >
                                                  >
                                                  > > Does anyone have any information on when we will be
                                                  > able to submit an application for lottery?
                                                  >
                                                  > >
                                                  >
                                                  > > Also- historically, what are the odds of actually
                                                  > getting in?
                                                  >
                                                  > >
                                                  >
                                                  > > Thanks.
                                                  >
                                                  > >
                                                  >
                                                  > > David Clark
                                                  >
                                                  > >
                                                  >
                                                  > > Max Muscle Sports Nutrition
                                                  >
                                                  > >
                                                  >
                                                  > > Longmont
                                                  >
                                                  > >
                                                  >
                                                  > > (C) 720-275-2197
                                                  >
                                                  > >
                                                  >
                                                  > > -Outreach Manager
                                                  >
                                                  > >
                                                  >
                                                  > > -NESTA Certified Sports Nutrition Coach
                                                  >
                                                  > >
                                                  >
                                                  > > -RRCA Certified Running Coach
                                                  >
                                                  > >
                                                  >
                                                  > > - Sent from my iPhone
                                                  >
                                                  > >
                                                  >
                                                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                  >
                                                  > >
                                                  >
                                                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                  >
                                                  > >
                                                  >
                                                  > >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >    
                                                  >      
                                                  >
                                                  >    
                                                  >    
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >  
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
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                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >      
                                                  >
                                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > ------------------------------------
                                                  >
                                                  > To Post a message, send it to:   hr100@...
                                                  >
                                                  > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: hr100-unsubscribe@...!
                                                  > Groups Links
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >     hr100-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                • Andy Hewat
                                                  I think the HR entry system is very civilized. While the lottery has been kind to me, I like the weighted system and the auto entry for 5 time finishers. I
                                                  Message 24 of 25 , Oct 23, 2010
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    I think the HR entry system is very civilized. While the lottery has been kind to me, I like the weighted system and the auto entry for 5 time finishers. I could see the benefit of saving a handful of spots for the elite to ensure high quality at the pointy end but that would make it just that little bit tougher for the rest of us. I do find myself looking on enviously at those 5 time finishers at the presentation.
                                                    Andy (3 from 3)


                                                    --- On Sat, 23/10/10, Michael Bur <mjcbur@...> wrote:

                                                    From: Michael Bur <mjcbur@...>
                                                    Subject: Re: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds
                                                    To: hr100@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Received: Saturday, 23 October, 2010, 5:33 AM
















                                                     











                                                    Interesting.



                                                    How are you defining "progressive" here and more to the point, what are the aspects of the current HR lottery system that you feel are not "progressive"? The DNFer is already effectively penalized WRT to a waitlister in that if they start and don't finish, they don't get the ticket; so the following year, the waitlister starts off in a better position when compared to the person who DNFed(all other things being equal).



                                                    As far as "progressive" goes, other than the MMT lottery(http://www.vhtrc.org/mmt/entry.htm), which by way of full disclosure, I helped design, I don't know of any other 100 entry that has put as much thought into their design in terms of consideration and balancing all of the various aspects, interests and stakeholders of the event. I know from experience that there are many, many aspects to consider when designing an entry system for an event that is oversubscribed. Some of them are in direct opposition to each other. It isn't easy trying to get them all to balance out in a "fair" way. It is also important to note here that what one may considered "fair" to them as an individual may not(and often is not!) the same as what the board/rd considers "fair" for the overall event.



                                                    In looking at what we(the VHTRC) did with MMT, I think there are other, far more "progressive" ideas that HR could incorporate to their lottery/entry before they resorted to taking away tickets from folks who DNFed.



                                                    Best,

                                                    Mike Bur(former VHTRC president, 4x Hardrocker)

                                                    Kensington, MD



                                                    --- On Fri, 10/22/10, Steve Kral <bvstablemail@...> wrote:



                                                    > From: Steve Kral <bvstablemail@...>

                                                    > Subject: Re: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds

                                                    > To: hr100@yahoogroups.com

                                                    > Date: Friday, October 22, 2010, 12:43 PM

                                                    > I wholly agree Chris, 'controversial

                                                    > to say the least' is an understatement. Still, abolishing

                                                    > slavery and giving the women the right to vote were all

                                                    > controversial ideas in their day...one even started a

                                                    > war...but somehow progress seems to stem from progressive

                                                    > ideas.

                                                    >

                                                    > --- On Thu, 10/21/10, Chris Twiggs <Twiggsc@...>

                                                    > wrote:

                                                    >

                                                    > From: Chris Twiggs <Twiggsc@...>

                                                    > Subject: Re: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds

                                                    > To: "hr100@yahoogroups.com"

                                                    > <hr100@yahoogroups.com>

                                                    > Date: Thursday, October 21, 2010, 8:43 PM

                                                    >

                                                    >

                                                    >

                                                    >

                                                    >

                                                    >

                                                    >

                                                    >

                                                    >

                                                    >

                                                    >

                                                    >

                                                    >

                                                    >

                                                    >

                                                    >

                                                    >  

                                                    >

                                                    >

                                                    >

                                                    >  

                                                    >

                                                    >

                                                    >    

                                                    >      

                                                    >      

                                                    >       As I understand it now, dnf's get no

                                                    > extra tickets compared to wait listers who get one. Further

                                                    > penalizing dnf'ers would be a controversial board decision

                                                    > to say the least. We all start HR100 with the intention of

                                                    > finishing, which I don't believe is the case in some other

                                                    > ultras. I choose not to second-guess anyone who decides to

                                                    > drop, and I certainly would not wish to take away tickets

                                                    > they had earned through other finishes or other wait list

                                                    > experiences.

                                                    >

                                                    >

                                                    >

                                                    > (Autofill wanted wait listers to be wait lusters, which I

                                                    > now propose become their official designation.)

                                                    >

                                                    >

                                                    >

                                                    > Chris from flat Florida

                                                    >

                                                    >

                                                    >

                                                    > Sent from my iPhone

                                                    >

                                                    >

                                                    >

                                                    > On Oct 21, 2010, at 8:34 PM, Steve Kral <bvstablemail@...>

                                                    > wrote:

                                                    >

                                                    >

                                                    >

                                                    > > They be better if people who DNFed any time in the

                                                    > past 3 years had one ticket taken away for each such

                                                    > occurrence....

                                                    >

                                                    > > stevekral

                                                    >

                                                    > > --- On Thu, 10/21/10, David Clark <irishsailsman@...>

                                                    > wrote:

                                                    >

                                                    > >

                                                    >

                                                    > > From: David Clark <irishsailsman@...>

                                                    >

                                                    > > Subject: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds

                                                    >

                                                    > > To: hr100@yahoogroups.com

                                                    >

                                                    > > Date: Thursday, October 21, 2010, 6:03 PM

                                                    >

                                                    > >

                                                    >

                                                    > > 

                                                    >

                                                    > >

                                                    >

                                                    > > Does anyone have any information on when we will be

                                                    > able to submit an application for lottery?

                                                    >

                                                    > >

                                                    >

                                                    > > Also- historically, what are the odds of actually

                                                    > getting in?

                                                    >

                                                    > >

                                                    >

                                                    > > Thanks.

                                                    >

                                                    > >

                                                    >

                                                    > > David Clark

                                                    >

                                                    > >

                                                    >

                                                    > > Max Muscle Sports Nutrition

                                                    >

                                                    > >

                                                    >

                                                    > > Longmont

                                                    >

                                                    > >

                                                    >

                                                    > > (C) 720-275-2197

                                                    >

                                                    > >

                                                    >

                                                    > > -Outreach Manager

                                                    >

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                                                    >

                                                    > > -NESTA Certified Sports Nutrition Coach

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                                                    > >

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                                                    > > -RRCA Certified Running Coach

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                                                    >

                                                    > > - Sent from my iPhone

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                                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                  • Chris Twiggs
                                                    You ll have that five timer finishing jacket in no time, Andy. Sent from my iPhone ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                    Message 25 of 25 , Oct 23, 2010
                                                    • 0 Attachment
                                                      You'll have that five timer finishing jacket in no time, Andy.

                                                      Sent from my iPhone

                                                      On Oct 23, 2010, at 9:38 AM, Andy Hewat <hewat.andy@...> wrote:

                                                      > I think the HR entry system is very civilized. While the lottery has been kind to me, I like the weighted system and the auto entry for 5 time finishers. I could see the benefit of saving a handful of spots for the elite to ensure high quality at the pointy end but that would make it just that little bit tougher for the rest of us. I do find myself looking on enviously at those 5 time finishers at the presentation.
                                                      > Andy (3 from 3)
                                                      >
                                                      > --- On Sat, 23/10/10, Michael Bur <mjcbur@...> wrote:
                                                      >
                                                      > From: Michael Bur <mjcbur@...>
                                                      > Subject: Re: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds
                                                      > To: hr100@yahoogroups.com
                                                      > Received: Saturday, 23 October, 2010, 5:33 AM
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > Interesting.
                                                      >
                                                      > How are you defining "progressive" here and more to the point, what are the aspects of the current HR lottery system that you feel are not "progressive"? The DNFer is already effectively penalized WRT to a waitlister in that if they start and don't finish, they don't get the ticket; so the following year, the waitlister starts off in a better position when compared to the person who DNFed(all other things being equal).
                                                      >
                                                      > As far as "progressive" goes, other than the MMT lottery(http://www.vhtrc.org/mmt/entry.htm), which by way of full disclosure, I helped design, I don't know of any other 100 entry that has put as much thought into their design in terms of consideration and balancing all of the various aspects, interests and stakeholders of the event. I know from experience that there are many, many aspects to consider when designing an entry system for an event that is oversubscribed. Some of them are in direct opposition to each other. It isn't easy trying to get them all to balance out in a "fair" way. It is also important to note here that what one may considered "fair" to them as an individual may not(and often is not!) the same as what the board/rd considers "fair" for the overall event.
                                                      >
                                                      > In looking at what we(the VHTRC) did with MMT, I think there are other, far more "progressive" ideas that HR could incorporate to their lottery/entry before they resorted to taking away tickets from folks who DNFed.
                                                      >
                                                      > Best,
                                                      >
                                                      > Mike Bur(former VHTRC president, 4x Hardrocker)
                                                      >
                                                      > Kensington, MD
                                                      >
                                                      > --- On Fri, 10/22/10, Steve Kral <bvstablemail@...> wrote:
                                                      >
                                                      > > From: Steve Kral <bvstablemail@...>
                                                      >
                                                      > > Subject: Re: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds
                                                      >
                                                      > > To: hr100@yahoogroups.com
                                                      >
                                                      > > Date: Friday, October 22, 2010, 12:43 PM
                                                      >
                                                      > > I wholly agree Chris, 'controversial
                                                      >
                                                      > > to say the least' is an understatement. Still, abolishing
                                                      >
                                                      > > slavery and giving the women the right to vote were all
                                                      >
                                                      > > controversial ideas in their day...one even started a
                                                      >
                                                      > > war...but somehow progress seems to stem from progressive
                                                      >
                                                      > > ideas.
                                                      >
                                                      > >
                                                      >
                                                      > > --- On Thu, 10/21/10, Chris Twiggs <Twiggsc@...>
                                                      >
                                                      > > wrote:
                                                      >
                                                      > >
                                                      >
                                                      > > From: Chris Twiggs <Twiggsc@...>
                                                      >
                                                      > > Subject: Re: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds
                                                      >
                                                      > > To: "hr100@yahoogroups.com"
                                                      >
                                                      > > <hr100@yahoogroups.com>
                                                      >
                                                      > > Date: Thursday, October 21, 2010, 8:43 PM
                                                      >
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                                                      > > As I understand it now, dnf's get no
                                                      >
                                                      > > extra tickets compared to wait listers who get one. Further
                                                      >
                                                      > > penalizing dnf'ers would be a controversial board decision
                                                      >
                                                      > > to say the least. We all start HR100 with the intention of
                                                      >
                                                      > > finishing, which I don't believe is the case in some other
                                                      >
                                                      > > ultras. I choose not to second-guess anyone who decides to
                                                      >
                                                      > > drop, and I certainly would not wish to take away tickets
                                                      >
                                                      > > they had earned through other finishes or other wait list
                                                      >
                                                      > > experiences.
                                                      >
                                                      > >
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                                                      > >
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                                                      > >
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                                                      > > (Autofill wanted wait listers to be wait lusters, which I
                                                      >
                                                      > > now propose become their official designation.)
                                                      >
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                                                      >
                                                      > > Chris from flat Florida
                                                      >
                                                      > >
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                                                      >
                                                      > > Sent from my iPhone
                                                      >
                                                      > >
                                                      >
                                                      > >
                                                      >
                                                      > >
                                                      >
                                                      > > On Oct 21, 2010, at 8:34 PM, Steve Kral <bvstablemail@...>
                                                      >
                                                      > > wrote:
                                                      >
                                                      > >
                                                      >
                                                      > >
                                                      >
                                                      > >
                                                      >
                                                      > > > They be better if people who DNFed any time in the
                                                      >
                                                      > > past 3 years had one ticket taken away for each such
                                                      >
                                                      > > occurrence....
                                                      >
                                                      > >
                                                      >
                                                      > > > stevekral
                                                      >
                                                      > >
                                                      >
                                                      > > > --- On Thu, 10/21/10, David Clark <irishsailsman@...>
                                                      >
                                                      > > wrote:
                                                      >
                                                      > >
                                                      >
                                                      > > >
                                                      >
                                                      > >
                                                      >
                                                      > > > From: David Clark <irishsailsman@...>
                                                      >
                                                      > >
                                                      >
                                                      > > > Subject: [hr100] Registration and Lottery Odds
                                                      >
                                                      > >
                                                      >
                                                      > > > To: hr100@yahoogroups.com
                                                      >
                                                      > >
                                                      >
                                                      > > > Date: Thursday, October 21, 2010, 6:03 PM
                                                      >
                                                      > >
                                                      >
                                                      > > >
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                                                      > >
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                                                      > > >
                                                      >
                                                      > >
                                                      >
                                                      > > >
                                                      >
                                                      > >
                                                      >
                                                      > > > Does anyone have any information on when we will be
                                                      >
                                                      > > able to submit an application for lottery?
                                                      >
                                                      > >
                                                      >
                                                      > > >
                                                      >
                                                      > >
                                                      >
                                                      > > > Also- historically, what are the odds of actually
                                                      >
                                                      > > getting in?
                                                      >
                                                      > >
                                                      >
                                                      > > >
                                                      >
                                                      > >
                                                      >
                                                      > > > Thanks.
                                                      >
                                                      > >
                                                      >
                                                      > > >
                                                      >
                                                      > >
                                                      >
                                                      > > > David Clark
                                                      >
                                                      > >
                                                      >
                                                      > > >
                                                      >
                                                      > >
                                                      >
                                                      > > > Max Muscle Sports Nutrition
                                                      >
                                                      > >
                                                      >
                                                      > > >
                                                      >
                                                      > >
                                                      >
                                                      > > > Longmont
                                                      >
                                                      > >
                                                      >
                                                      > > >
                                                      >
                                                      > >
                                                      >
                                                      > > > (C) 720-275-2197
                                                      >
                                                      > >
                                                      >
                                                      > > >
                                                      >
                                                      > >
                                                      >
                                                      > > > -Outreach Manager
                                                      >
                                                      > >
                                                      >
                                                      > > >
                                                      >
                                                      > >
                                                      >
                                                      > > > -NESTA Certified Sports Nutrition Coach
                                                      >
                                                      > >
                                                      >
                                                      > > >
                                                      >
                                                      > >
                                                      >
                                                      > > > -RRCA Certified Running Coach
                                                      >
                                                      > >
                                                      >
                                                      > > >
                                                      >
                                                      > >
                                                      >
                                                      > > > - Sent from my iPhone
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                                                      >
                                                      > > ------------------------------------
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                                                      > > Groups Links
                                                      >
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                                                      >
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                                                      >
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                                                      > >
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                                                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                      >
                                                      >


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