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Re: [hr100] Shoes for Hardrock?

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  • Matt Mahoney
    Yeah, maybe I should get the Flows. They are designed for colder weather. ... -- Matt Mahoney, matmahoney@yahoo.com
    Message 1 of 6 , May 2, 2008
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      Yeah, maybe I should get the Flows. They are designed for colder
      weather.

      --- Tom Stockton <tbstockton@...> wrote:

      > As far a Five Fingers in snow goes, I tried to do ski hill repeats in
      > a pair this winter. Traction was pretty good up the slopes but my
      > toes
      > froze pretty quickly. Very painful, wouldn't recommend it.
      >
      > Tom
      >
      > On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 4:42 PM, Matt Mahoney <matmahoney@...>
      > wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > I am wondering what shoes to wear for Hardrock this year. There is
      > > more snow than usual, meaning more than usual water crossings. I
      > would
      > > like a shoe that dries quickly but grips well on steep snow and
      > mud.
      > >
      > > My last two attempts were DNFs. In 2006 I wore some 7 oz. Nike
      > Zoom
      > > racing flats without socks. These were well worn so that the
      > bottoms
      > > were smooth. This was not too much of a problem because it was a
      > dry
      > > year. However, I did not finish the course. For those familiar
      > with
      > > the area, I made it to the Silverton ski hut when I heard the town
      > > clock strike 6 signaling that my 48 hours were up.
      > >
      > > In 2007 there was average snow and we ran counterclockwise. I wore
      > > Walsh PB trainers ordered from the UK. These are heavier (about 10
      > oz
      > > dry) and have an excellent grip due to a grid of monster spikes on
      > the
      > > bottom. However they don't drain well so they are heavy when wet.
      > > Anyway, I did slightly better than last year, making it to the
      > corner
      > > of Snowdon and 11'th St (behind the Silverton library) before time
      > was
      > > up.
      > >
      > > I think there is room for improvement. We will be going clockwise
      > this
      > > year. They normally set up an outdoor "living room" under a canopy
      > > with a sofa, lamp, table, etc. for runners to lounge in. Usually
      > it is
      > > about 20 feet before the Hardrock. I would like to make it at
      > least
      > > that far.
      > >
      > > Anyway I looked at the PB racers but the new racers are about the
      > same
      > > weight as the old trainers (progress, I guess). So instead I
      > ordered
      > > some Vibram Five Fingers KSO (nfi). I got them yesterday and did a
      > 3
      > > mile test run on a mix of flat roads and grass. They felt good,
      > > although my calves got a better than usual workout. It isn't
      > exactly
      > > like Hardrock terrain, but I live in Florida so it is the best I
      > can
      > > do.
      > >
      > > Anyway the KSOs are really light, about 5 oz. with a thin mesh
      > upper
      > > that ought to dry quickly. The sole is contoured to fit the foot,
      > > including a pocket for each toe so they can move independently. It
      > > varies in thickness. The thickest areas (about 1/8 inch or 3 mm)
      > are
      > > around the heel and ball of the foot. I like the flexibility. You
      > can
      > > roll the shoes up into a ball and put them in your pockets.
      > >
      > > In my test run, I really get a good feel for the ground. There is
      > an
      > > obvious difference between smooth and rough pavement. So I know I
      > will
      > > feel every pebble. It does not have an aggressive tread so I
      > wondered
      > > about steep snow. On the Huaraches list someone said you could dig
      > > your toes into the snow so it wasn't a problem. Also, I believe
      > some
      > > rock climbers use them. The traction comes from fitting your foot
      > to
      > > the ground, which you can't do in a stiff soled shoe.
      > >
      > > I plan to do some longer test runs first (Wickham Park) before I
      > > decide. But has anyone run on mountain terrain in these shoes? I
      > know
      > > Barefoot Ted ran Angeles Crest in a slightly different model of
      > > FiveFingers and said the only slippery areas were sloping granite
      > slabs
      > > with gravel on top.
      > >
      > > -- Matt Mahoney, matmahoney@...
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      > --
      > Tom Stockton
      > (505) 660-8591
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      > To Post a message, send it to: hr100@...
      >
      > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
      > hr100-unsubscribe@...! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >


      -- Matt Mahoney, matmahoney@...
    • Twiggsc@aol.com
      Matt, I can t believe the weight you would spare would be worth the risk involved in wearing these shoes on HR100 terrain. There are easier ways to go faster,
      Message 2 of 6 , May 2, 2008
      • 0 Attachment
        Matt, I can't believe the weight you would spare would be worth the risk involved in wearing these shoes on HR100 terrain. There are easier ways to go faster, like letting someone else take all the pictures. I think the 5 fingers are best left on the beach. I'll be running in Montrails again this year, hoping for 4 straight finishes.

        Chris
        Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Matt Mahoney <matmahoney@...>

        Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 14:42:25
        To:Ultralist <ultra@...>, Hardrock100 <hr100@yahoogroups.com>
        Subject: [hr100] Shoes for Hardrock?


        I am wondering what shoes to wear for Hardrock this year. There is
        more snow than usual, meaning more than usual water crossings. I would
        like a shoe that dries quickly but grips well on steep snow and mud.

        My last two attempts were DNFs. In 2006 I wore some 7 oz. Nike Zoom
        racing flats without socks. These were well worn so that the bottoms
        were smooth. This was not too much of a problem because it was a dry
        year. However, I did not finish the course. For those familiar with
        the area, I made it to the Silverton ski hut when I heard the town
        clock strike 6 signaling that my 48 hours were up.

        In 2007 there was average snow and we ran counterclockwise. I wore
        Walsh PB trainers ordered from the UK. These are heavier (about 10 oz
        dry) and have an excellent grip due to a grid of monster spikes on the
        bottom. However they don't drain well so they are heavy when wet.
        Anyway, I did slightly better than last year, making it to the corner
        of Snowdon and 11'th St (behind the Silverton library) before time was
        up.

        I think there is room for improvement. We will be going clockwise this
        year. They normally set up an outdoor "living room" under a canopy
        with a sofa, lamp, table, etc. for runners to lounge in. Usually it is
        about 20 feet before the Hardrock. I would like to make it at least
        that far.

        Anyway I looked at the PB racers but the new racers are about the same
        weight as the old trainers (progress, I guess). So instead I ordered
        some Vibram Five Fingers KSO (nfi). I got them yesterday and did a 3
        mile test run on a mix of flat roads and grass. They felt good,
        although my calves got a better than usual workout. It isn't exactly
        like Hardrock terrain, but I live in Florida so it is the best I can
        do.

        Anyway the KSOs are really light, about 5 oz. with a thin mesh upper
        that ought to dry quickly. The sole is contoured to fit the foot,
        including a pocket for each toe so they can move independently. It
        varies in thickness. The thickest areas (about 1/8 inch or 3 mm) are
        around the heel and ball of the foot. I like the flexibility. You can
        roll the shoes up into a ball and put them in your pockets.

        In my test run, I really get a good feel for the ground. There is an
        obvious difference between smooth and rough pavement. So I know I will
        feel every pebble. It does not have an aggressive tread so I wondered
        about steep snow. On the Huaraches list someone said you could dig
        your toes into the snow so it wasn't a problem. Also, I believe some
        rock climbers use them. The traction comes from fitting your foot to
        the ground, which you can't do in a stiff soled shoe.

        I plan to do some longer test runs first (Wickham Park) before I
        decide. But has anyone run on mountain terrain in these shoes? I know
        Barefoot Ted ran Angeles Crest in a slightly different model of
        FiveFingers and said the only slippery areas were sloping granite slabs
        with gravel on top.

        -- Matt Mahoney, matmahoney@yahoo. <mailto:matmahoney%40yahoo.com> com
      • Matt Mahoney
        ... Well, I haven t decided yet. I normally run barefoot on the beach. ... -- Matt Mahoney, matmahoney@yahoo.com
        Message 3 of 6 , May 2, 2008
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          --- Twiggsc@... wrote:

          > Matt, I can't believe the weight you would spare would be worth the
          > risk involved in wearing these shoes on HR100 terrain. There are
          > easier ways to go faster, like letting someone else take all the
          > pictures. I think the 5 fingers are best left on the beach. I'll be
          > running in Montrails again this year, hoping for 4 straight finishes.

          Well, I haven't decided yet. I normally run barefoot on the beach.

          >
          >
          > Chris
          > Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: Matt Mahoney <matmahoney@...>
          >
          > Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 14:42:25
          > To:Ultralist <ultra@...>, Hardrock100
          > <hr100@yahoogroups.com>
          > Subject: [hr100] Shoes for Hardrock?
          >
          >
          > I am wondering what shoes to wear for Hardrock this year. There is
          > more snow than usual, meaning more than usual water crossings. I
          > would
          > like a shoe that dries quickly but grips well on steep snow and mud.
          >
          > My last two attempts were DNFs. In 2006 I wore some 7 oz. Nike Zoom
          > racing flats without socks. These were well worn so that the bottoms
          > were smooth. This was not too much of a problem because it was a dry
          > year. However, I did not finish the course. For those familiar with
          > the area, I made it to the Silverton ski hut when I heard the town
          > clock strike 6 signaling that my 48 hours were up.
          >
          > In 2007 there was average snow and we ran counterclockwise. I wore
          > Walsh PB trainers ordered from the UK. These are heavier (about 10
          > oz
          > dry) and have an excellent grip due to a grid of monster spikes on
          > the
          > bottom. However they don't drain well so they are heavy when wet.
          > Anyway, I did slightly better than last year, making it to the
          > corner
          > of Snowdon and 11'th St (behind the Silverton library) before time
          > was
          > up.
          >
          > I think there is room for improvement. We will be going clockwise
          > this
          > year. They normally set up an outdoor "living room" under a canopy
          > with a sofa, lamp, table, etc. for runners to lounge in. Usually it
          > is
          > about 20 feet before the Hardrock. I would like to make it at least
          > that far.
          >
          > Anyway I looked at the PB racers but the new racers are about the
          > same
          > weight as the old trainers (progress, I guess). So instead I ordered
          > some Vibram Five Fingers KSO (nfi). I got them yesterday and did a 3
          > mile test run on a mix of flat roads and grass. They felt good,
          > although my calves got a better than usual workout. It isn't exactly
          > like Hardrock terrain, but I live in Florida so it is the best I can
          > do.
          >
          > Anyway the KSOs are really light, about 5 oz. with a thin mesh upper
          > that ought to dry quickly. The sole is contoured to fit the foot,
          > including a pocket for each toe so they can move independently. It
          > varies in thickness. The thickest areas (about 1/8 inch or 3 mm) are
          > around the heel and ball of the foot. I like the flexibility. You
          > can
          > roll the shoes up into a ball and put them in your pockets.
          >
          > In my test run, I really get a good feel for the ground. There is an
          > obvious difference between smooth and rough pavement. So I know I
          > will
          > feel every pebble. It does not have an aggressive tread so I
          > wondered
          > about steep snow. On the Huaraches list someone said you could dig
          > your toes into the snow so it wasn't a problem. Also, I believe some
          > rock climbers use them. The traction comes from fitting your foot to
          > the ground, which you can't do in a stiff soled shoe.
          >
          > I plan to do some longer test runs first (Wickham Park) before I
          > decide. But has anyone run on mountain terrain in these shoes? I
          > know
          > Barefoot Ted ran Angeles Crest in a slightly different model of
          > FiveFingers and said the only slippery areas were sloping granite
          > slabs
          > with gravel on top.
          >
          > -- Matt Mahoney, matmahoney@yahoo. <mailto:matmahoney%40yahoo.com>
          > com
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > To Post a message, send it to: hr100@...
          >
          > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
          > hr100-unsubscribe@...! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >


          -- Matt Mahoney, matmahoney@...
        • james varner
          hi matt i second twiggy s response that there s probably better ways to shave ounces but i know you like those super light shoes and you gotta go with what you
          Message 4 of 6 , May 2, 2008
          • 0 Attachment
            hi matt

            i second twiggy's response that there's probably
            better ways to shave ounces but i know you like those
            super light shoes and you gotta go with what you like
            so....

            if you're willing to go a little heavier i love my
            invo8 305's i've never had a better shoe but for you
            it's pretty heavy at 10.76 oz. invo8 has a bunch of
            other shoes even lighter all the way down to 8+ oz and
            they all have plenty of traction for hardrock.

            and i know 2 young trail speedsters who love their new
            balance 790's whiich i think weigh 7 oz. so if those
            shoes are lite enough of skaggs and krupicka they
            could be lite enough for you.

            have fun and see ya in s-town!

            james
            --- Matt Mahoney <matmahoney@...> wrote:

            > I am wondering what shoes to wear for Hardrock this
            > year. There is
            > more snow than usual, meaning more than usual water
            > crossings. I would
            > like a shoe that dries quickly but grips well on
            > steep snow and mud.
            >
            > My last two attempts were DNFs. In 2006 I wore some
            > 7 oz. Nike Zoom
            > racing flats without socks. These were well worn so
            > that the bottoms
            > were smooth. This was not too much of a problem
            > because it was a dry
            > year. However, I did not finish the course. For
            > those familiar with
            > the area, I made it to the Silverton ski hut when I
            > heard the town
            > clock strike 6 signaling that my 48 hours were up.
            >
            > In 2007 there was average snow and we ran
            > counterclockwise. I wore
            > Walsh PB trainers ordered from the UK. These are
            > heavier (about 10 oz
            > dry) and have an excellent grip due to a grid of
            > monster spikes on the
            > bottom. However they don't drain well so they are
            > heavy when wet.
            > Anyway, I did slightly better than last year, making
            > it to the corner
            > of Snowdon and 11'th St (behind the Silverton
            > library) before time was
            > up.
            >
            > I think there is room for improvement. We will be
            > going clockwise this
            > year. They normally set up an outdoor "living room"
            > under a canopy
            > with a sofa, lamp, table, etc. for runners to lounge
            > in. Usually it is
            > about 20 feet before the Hardrock. I would like to
            > make it at least
            > that far.
            >
            > Anyway I looked at the PB racers but the new racers
            > are about the same
            > weight as the old trainers (progress, I guess). So
            > instead I ordered
            > some Vibram Five Fingers KSO (nfi). I got them
            > yesterday and did a 3
            > mile test run on a mix of flat roads and grass.
            > They felt good,
            > although my calves got a better than usual workout.
            > It isn't exactly
            > like Hardrock terrain, but I live in Florida so it
            > is the best I can
            > do.
            >
            > Anyway the KSOs are really light, about 5 oz. with a
            > thin mesh upper
            > that ought to dry quickly. The sole is contoured to
            > fit the foot,
            > including a pocket for each toe so they can move
            > independently. It
            > varies in thickness. The thickest areas (about 1/8
            > inch or 3 mm) are
            > around the heel and ball of the foot. I like the
            > flexibility. You can
            > roll the shoes up into a ball and put them in your
            > pockets.
            >
            > In my test run, I really get a good feel for the
            > ground. There is an
            > obvious difference between smooth and rough
            > pavement. So I know I will
            > feel every pebble. It does not have an aggressive
            > tread so I wondered
            > about steep snow. On the Huaraches list someone
            > said you could dig
            > your toes into the snow so it wasn't a problem.
            > Also, I believe some
            > rock climbers use them. The traction comes from
            > fitting your foot to
            > the ground, which you can't do in a stiff soled
            > shoe.
            >
            > I plan to do some longer test runs first (Wickham
            > Park) before I
            > decide. But has anyone run on mountain terrain in
            > these shoes? I know
            > Barefoot Ted ran Angeles Crest in a slightly
            > different model of
            > FiveFingers and said the only slippery areas were
            > sloping granite slabs
            > with gravel on top.
            >
            >
            > -- Matt Mahoney, matmahoney@...
            >



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